Solar Hot Water day 3, Spoiler: it works and I've subbed David
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2024
- To build this rig cost under $300 aud I'm fairly impressed with it. There was 90ah so about 2kwh pumped into the HWS & for me to buy that 2kwh of energy from the grid it would cost me about $0.50cents so ROI would be 600 days - would you do it for that ROI?
Costs would be even cheaper if you had some old solar gear laying around!
3 used 250w panels - $120
Some DC Cable, YBranch Connectors & MC4's - $30 ebay.to/2Iu6fZe
DC/DC 100a relay & Heatsink $55 ebay.to/2KIgNGG
600w 24v DC hotwater element - $35 ebay.to/2K5aVIk
10yr old 50l hws - $30 ebay.to/2F3fcHV
Add the cost of a few copper pipes & fittings and you have a sub $300 hot water system that'll last years and provide about 50lL of hot water per day.
some of the parts used here
Kudom 100amp DC relay - ebay.to/2KIgNGG
DC Element 600w 24v ebay.to/2K5aVIk
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Pete
#solarhotwater #diyhotwater #diypowerwalls #hbpowerwall
Should of run the in bound water past the panel backs first to preheat water and cool panels.
To much work for effect
I see someone has commented that it's too much work?
My question relating to heating of the panels..... Could they be getting hot simply because they are in the sun and not actually because of internal resistance?
Heatexchanger would be more efficient. Depending on source temperature in can move 1 of electricity to 7 of heat energy. There are heat exchanger with air source and liquid source. To minimize demand you can use waste water heat recovery, waste water can be reused for toilet, even for watering plants (if biodegradable cleaning supplies are used).
Sure heat exchanger can be more expensive than simple resistant heater but if you use ac a lot and a lot of hot water including washing mashine (if it has separate input for hot water) and dishwasher or it can be set up for comunity like in a apartment building. It makes sense for sure.
Brilliant. I thought that would be a good idea.
@@Jarmezrocks My solar panels get up to 65° C, and get so hot that they lose efficiency. Pumping water behind them to cool them down and steal the heat away to heat the water would be very helpful.
I think the best system is two-stage solar water heating. The cold main water supply splits, with a line going to the roof and into a direct solar heater. That direct solar heater is an elongated parabolic dish with a magnifying clear glass cover (outside surface is convex), and the inside surface of the parabolic metallic dish is polished and reflects light like a mirror. Inside the device copper tubing runs back and forth, in multiple lines, in which water enters cool and exits hot. The water coming out then goes to an electric hot water tank, traditional water heater. Now, the electric water heater can get its electricity from photovoltaic system, and won't draw huge amounts of power. Instead of having to draw lots of power to heat up cold water it just sips on electricity to keep already hot water hot. This set up would allow much more of the PV electric from a battery bank to power other things, like a fridge, or even air conditioning.
Someone needs to start a magazine on these subjects DIY solar ideas
Great video. Here is how I heat water with solar power. I have an at point 13 gallon 120volt ac water heater which has power and temperature controls being run by my 700 watts worth of solar panels,60amp MPPT and one 100amp hr.12v battle born battery. Before I leave for work on a sunny day I set the temperature to max and power setting to low which is 200 watts. By the time I get home from work the water temperature is 145 degrees which is enough hot water for two showers.
We're on 99% solar only using hydro when its cloudy for a few days otherwise using gennie to charge batteries. We're installing a 30 gal electric to PREHEAT the water going to the propane 50gal hot water heater. The well water entering the hot water heater is 5c (40f) and once we preheat the well water entering the propane heater it takes X times less propane to heat the incoming "cold" water up to the 60c we desire.
Great advice here. Free hot water is everyone's dream. It's amazing how few people have done this.
its not free, and not with out it's issues as it turns out!
Thank you for the shout-out. I enjoy watching your videos too.
I was going to grab some of your footage and plug you but run out of time
I totally understand. Trying to find the time is the hardest part of owning a channel. (at least for me)
Another thing I have done in the past is hook up this system b4 my current hot water system. So if the water is hot enough in the DC tank Ur main hot water system won't turn on instant or tank. But multiple cloudy days the main will make sure U always have hot water. And if the water going in2 the main tank is only 40 still good as main only needs 2 heat it 15 degrees
Yes we have been talking about a preheater - it's a great idea and if i did anything more here that's the way i would do it. (if )
I have the same plan to do now in my house to get a preheated water in solar dc heated water tank before main gas heated tank
I have bought 3x 400w panels, 96v 60amp mppt controller and 24v heating element, but I still dont know which water tank to buy for all this system- do i need to get electric water tank and change the heating element in there or other tipe of tank.
Would be nice, if you could give me advice how to set up thermostat relay on it so it switches off when right temperature is reached and do i need expansion tank to set up for this tank as well, cos I have one expansion tank already for my gas heated water tank
Excellent video Pete! =) I have been talking this for years that people should do hot water with PV panels. It's the perfect place to dump your excess solar production and you probably need hot water. Cost for water based energy storage is about 200 times cheaper than lithium batteries. So you and David are my heroes doing these videos. :)
Defiently a learning curve! Planing to add a second tank here for more hot water - we use way too much of it lol
I glad to see you are finally doing this. I believe some very smart person told you , you could do this over 5 years ago.
Can't quickly find your email - but shoot me one and i'll send you a preview :) admin at diypowerwalls.com I'm doing it but not for me :)
7 x 24V 300W solar panels in series = 250VDC. full load (2000W) = ~220VDC and you have a decent water heater. AC switches won't work with DC, you have to use a solid state switch. It's a FET and a opto volaic device to switch the DC.
Would you be willing to send me a list of products I would need to run a small ...window.... air conditioner from solar. The one I have is approx 6000 watts I believe, but the setup could involve buying a new air conditioner as well as the panels and other coponents. I would like to have enough to battery power to keep the unit running an hour or two after the sun goes down. I'm thinking the air conditioning panels would be run separate from the general use system. Might incorporate together but more likely will set up in 2 or 3 phases to keep investment affordable and be sure it will work before going all in. I also like the redundancy so parts could be swapped in an emergent situation.
So would that mean you cant use the thermostats in your 24v series hookup to make 240v dc
A solar panel is a current source. A 250 watt panel has a Isc of roughly 8 amps.
A Resistance Heater is a fixed amount of resistance.
A 24 volt 600 watt heater is a resistor with a value of .96 Ohms
(r = v^2/p)
So with 3 parallel panels you have a current source of 22 amps flowing through a fixed resistance of .96 Ohms.
Ohms Law for Power = Current x Current x Resistance. Now use 22 amps and .96 Ohms.
22 amps x 22 amps x .96 Ohms = 464 watts.
Which is not too bad for 750 watts of panels
Nod... all I know it worked with out needing math (i might have saved some time tho)
Solar is the only thing I know where if it barely works at all people are so damn pleased. It is not anywhere near power point so energy wasted. Just move in some clouds and it is a FAIL. These videos just perpetuate the myth that panels can be connected directly to heating elements. A great disservice to the solar community that needs more education.
@@opera5714 could you elaborate on what would be a better approach? cheers
@@CristianSzwarc Watch my channel. Electronics is needed to match the panels to the heater resistance. At just 70% current, my power point controller gives 50% more heat. At 40% current you get 250% more heat. More than that, you get heat earlier in the day when it is needed. Direct connect is just goofy.
@@opera5714 cheers, will make sure to check your channel tonight, seems you have multiple experiments there. After some googling yesterday I'm hopefully more inform now: because the resistance of the overall system is an ever-changing thing because circumstances/weather you need some dynamic controller between the panels and the heater to keep the voltage in the always changing "sweet spot", an mppt but less complex since there is no battery to care about. thanks
So many people already have solar panels now. It seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to invent a solar panel which performs like an ordinary solar panel but which also containing a water tank below it makes and stores hot water. If for nothing else it seems like this may work at a minimum as preheated water going into another form of hot water heater.
a panel already exists that has a pool heater in it.
Saving $.5 off a $300 purchase would put your ROI at 600 days not 150. It's still a great project.
HAHAA my math sucks
I've been very disappointed by the offerings of footpaths for upcoming bulk pickup in our area tut tut.
then again, it is our area ha.
got my 6.32KW solar system installed last Tuesday and getting a lovely ~21KW a day generation now, and put some of my old panels to use on the pool salt cell and a few lefts for when I eventually go DC pool pump.
Yeah, insulate that thing really well, it should do good, off grid, if it heats in 4-5 or even6 hours, would be fine, I may look into this, and a solar thermal heating, then I can use my tankless gas heater for the really bad days, I just need to figure a way to incorporate all the junk in to a working system, maybe a arduino control system, that turns on what ever system is hotter, and turn the gas on if neither is hot! I plan to try the wind turbine thing, I can use it as a dump/ divert load! Maybe this will be the next hot thing!
heya nice to see it works
Hook the solar directly to water heater input. You don't need all that other stuff.
very good! I will be having my one go at this soon :D
Awesome!
It's all Physics. Panel WATTS / 1.168 / L in tank = degrees C per hour increase
Physics is just like math lol and i don't math
@@HBPowerwall I gave up on math when they said I had to start counting letters! and physics has a lot of the same letters as physical makes me tired just thinking about it haha keep the vids coming Pete
Hi. I tried to connect dc 48v 1500w water heater element, and 3 panels 450w×44~50v in parallel... between them 32amps circuit dc circuit breaker ... distance between panels and element around 30m .. cable size 2×6mm ... volts received around 44v ... after putting switch on : voltage drops to 1 to 3 volts ... what's the problem? Thanks
I wonder if you have heard of this yet.. There are companies I recently found online that build aluminum fluid panels that A. cool your solar panels for better efficiency midday & B. make hot water. They are quite expensive to buy ($300-$500) but they seem great idea, especially for us that live in the tropics / equitorial regions. I found my panels cant capture as much energy in the middle of the day when its really hot. I bet you already know this though :-) Thank you for all your videos & website - I am a huge fan & just finished my first powerwall.
I love the idea, but yes they are expensive - did consider trying to make my own since releasing this video.
Yep David has already done a comparison of pv vs solar water.
and it's bloody brilliant lol but still learnt stuffs so still valid tests
@@HBPowerwall David who? How do spell his channel?
You could really improve the efficiency of the system with a mppt controller, especially on cloudy days.
That would add quite a bit to the build cost... that said this rig doesn't exist any more - it's had an upgrade :) video coming as soon as i'm done editing
@@HBPowerwall If you know something about electronics it would cost ~10us$ to build a simple controller, that would probably double the energy you would get from the solar panels.
HBPowerwall Did the new video ever get edited? Can’t see it on your page. Very interested in solar hot water!
@@FoolishDane
Hmm I'd like to see your diy mppt device for about 10usd.
New sub here Mate. I am British American and just moved back to Florida from Manchester UK recently and bought some new toys being newly retired young. I bought a nice boat and pop up camper so kinda doing something exciting on learning solar power so I could put full solar on the pop up camper and start putting solar on my house. I subscribed to David as well as I feel he is a amazing coach in the field but with what you did for under $300 is truly mind blowing! Not many people use thermal, may I ask what thermal device you are using? Thank you so kindly, cheers!
Are you asking what Thermal Camera camera does he use? Check out the thermal cameras made by Fluke or FLIR, you can get them that just show temp and not image which are much cheaper also.
Karl Bartelt ...... I currently have a " Seek thermal compact pro " which Flir thermal compact pro" can not match when it comes to distance Range as the seek goes up to 1,800 feet, GPS coordinates and such. But certain people have better resources on where to go at better prices. I do plan on getting a flir thermal compact pro soon as possible. I find it interesting seeing the different quality in live videos and of course price is essential. The clearity of his thermal is outstanding! So I was curious. Hopefully I will have my second seek thermal compact pro tomorrow in the mail. As you said on the different price range I believe is important to most people.
Its a flir unit for iphone - www.diypowerwalls.com/flir
HBPowerwall ......Thanks mate, the quality is outstanding . My seek thermal pro is for iPhone as well and I just ordered the same but for Android. The price is very posh compared to here for the same thing. I now plan on for sure getting a flir compact pro after seeing your video, ta! My best mate lives in Perth that I was raised in England with and he stated, prices are much higher there than here when he came to America and stayed here over the summer.i do appreciate you letting me know.
Hey another question, I am either putting on at a bare minimum of a 340 watt solar power system or a 540 watt solar power system on my pop up camper. I never had solar before. What I need ran is a small fridge, a 14,000 BTU portable air conditioner , a small microwave that I would have unplugged when not in use, 2 lights and maybe a lap top. Do you think a single 340 watt would do or a 540 or more? I am all new to this.
Get a thermostatic mixer and then crank thermostat as hot as it will go. Then the water coming out will always be the same temp coming out of taps say 55c so no burning and technically makes Ur hot water system have more hot water
never herd of such a thing - but would be great in the kids bathroom to curb the hot water usage
U can get from Bunnings for about 90bucks or cheaper from eBay.
@@HBPowerwall rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F223212703225
Even this 20dollar 1 has been doing a good job the last 6 months
Interesting - like the idea and never knew it existed
HBPowerwall They are standard equipment on things like boats, where a small hot water cylinder may be heated by the engine cooling water to close to boiling. They prevent scalding, allow more usable water from a smaller tank, and also ensure tanks are allowed to reach a high enough temperature to sterilise themselves.
Next challenge, create a solar powered compressor heat exchange water heater system. Pretty sure with your excess battery capacity it would be much more efficient.
More efficient - yes. For £300? No!
@Pete Did you you do a follow up on this in the end Pete?
A few years ago you did a video installing the SolarImmersion as a Solar Dump, so I'm keen to know as this video was done a year later than that and 10 months ago, does that mean the SolarImmersion didn't work out in the end??
I've done about 10 more versions and none work as inteneded - but i have an 11th
@@HBPowerwall Haha, perhaps an update is in order then to educate the rest of us on what doesn't work :)
My question can you use a grid interacting inverter for the 240ac in to the hot water system??
Would it be easy enough to have the water tank take the power once your house batteries are charged for the day?
Yep really easy.- currently have another video in progress with an easy setup
Hey man, would it be worth while to consider a 240v to 24v inverter to couple with this kind of system so that when it's cloudy you can "give it a boost" so to speak?
I've got a few 240-24v inverters laying around from some old air con units. So a little project like this would be great!
People have been saying the voltage doesn't matter AC/DC but i don't really know.. and cant afford to blow stuff up tinkering lol
Using a 24V heating element is absolutely insane. It way more complicates the electronics needed and has a significant loss from voltage drops from that high current. This system demonstrates the principals, but should never be built as shown. Tear apart those power supplies and build a real PV water heating control.
Maybe I can connect my whole system to a water heater,with a voltage controlled relay, so when the batteries are full, the whole array can heat water, maybe it could take about an hour, if the water isn't very cold, likely in the evening, in time for a shower!!
Stay tuned :)
Great video. Which thermal imaging camera are you using?
it's a www.diypowerwalls.com/flir
@@HBPowerwall thanks!
Great work as usual brother. Maybe a diode befor hot water unit so not a dead short. Cheers
I think we got it sorted - Next video in progress - as a dumpload.. i'm so pumped for this next video
Recently I read a university paper that reported MPPT had a 20-35% advantage
heating water over DIRECT CONNECT. That makes sense since you have seen
that number referenced for charge controller. It stressed how location was key
givendifferent weather conditions. Why bother with that extra electronics when
direct connect is so simple. The study however was deeply flawed. It
was not done by solar people. Total heating over a year really doesn't
matter. You want hot water every day regardless of weather conditions.
Here is a real comparison between MPPT and direct connect of heater
elements. For simplicity, a 60V 10A array and element to perfectly
match that. Solar panels are current sources and the voltage of them
is based on the load resistance.
MPPT 10A 60V 600W
DIRECT 10A 60V 600W
MPPT 5A 60V 300W
DIRECT 5A 30V 150W
MPPT 2.5A 60V 150W
DIRECT 1.2A 15V 38W
As you can see, MPPT greatly outperforms direct connect in less than
ideal conditions which happens most of the time.
Interesting!
No chance of second hand panels in Tassie at that price, I love the concept though.
I think there is a market to stock pile panels and truck them down to tassy, bet you'd sell a bunch but i think transport might kill the proffit margin just a little bit.
Clean the bird shit he says! Funny guy, beautiful . Do the panel makers provide bird poop warranty?
You'd hope so, i need to make a claim! lol
You can get dual voltage dual circuit elements ie 240VAC / 24VDC are you going to convert your house Hotwater system?
I don't dare touch my wifes hot water, she goes nuts when there .isn't enough power to boil a coffee pot, imagine if she went without a hot shower.. WORLD WOULD END and it would be painful.
@@HBPowerwall Yeah, they are all the same. But that's why I suggested the 'dual element' the 240 volt part can be for her indoors, while the 24 volt DC can be for you. Maybe 40% of your electricity consumption goes in hotwater, especially when her indoors spends 30 minutes in the shower!!!
for my home already have the EDDI hot water diverter fromevolutionaustralia.com.au/product-page/myenergi-eddi-energy-redirector/ it's so easy and just works, don't think i'll mess with mine BUT might consider preheater, i think that would be a worthwhile project for sure.
are the new stile lithium ion laptop battery ok to us in power wall they using the flat packs that look to me like lithium polymer
you need battery to use it at night
use the case of the hw solar panel and put 19mm poly pipe in it ?
the black irrigation stuff
@@dtec30 That would work well i would think. You could just putty up the hole and use it at thermosyphon hws without it being pressurized it would be fine to use... (and cheap)
@@HBPowerwall would it work under pressure? ie solar thermosyphon heat and then pv solar heat dc element?
i'm guessing this would only be good for one shower?
I think that adds a level of complexity to it (pipping wise) might have to use a proper solar hws tank as it has extra inputs and outputs i believe
@@HBPowerwall ah ok sorry pete i think too much
I thought you were going to have to call this solar water tank! Since there was no 'hot' to it!! Ha-ha!!!
👍
The panels get hot from the sun ffs. Dead short had virtually nothing to do with it.
Look at yesterdays video :P you might notice a small difference - secondlifestorage.com/t-Solar-Hot-Water?pid=50714#pid50714 trust me - the sun was part of it... but not the whole story FFS!
Just build a 48v instant water heater
next..... well maybe
@@HBPowerwall 100mm pvc pipe, 2 end caps, 2x 1500w 48v elements, 2x 1/2" buteline males
and attach to a old cast iron bath tub on the top of the mountain
love the video! just signed up to be a patreon:)
DUDE you're awesome THANK-YOU!
Ever thought of cycling the water? Adding a small (maybe DC) hot water recycling pump might improve the time it takes to reach the temperature. If it that works it will mean immediate hot water from every hot water outlet. hmmm. There is another experiment for you. :)
Yeh, i think most hotels do that, did consider putting small tank on solar thermal setup and using it to do the other half of the house so to speak. to pump water around it would be a big job here as you'd really need to insulate all the pipes and add a return pipe.. Prohibitive cost wise i think.
@@HBPowerwall True. On the bright side, the return line will be a smaller diameter pipe. But you are right about insulating the pipe.
The thermostat is AC it will be destroyed after a few cycles using DC.
hence i'm using relay to low power it.. will keep a close look at it and have ordered other solutions to test down the track.
Just use black colored garden hose. The longer you have the more hot water you get. In summer you have to be careful you don't scald yourself.
Water hoses are a breeding ground for bacteria.
defiantly need food grade hoses or use heat exchanger in the tank perhaps
With the same sunlight you could have boiled 4-5 TIMES as much water with solar thermal water heaters that would be ten times cheaper. What a waste of PV panels.
Is it a waste if they weren't being used, and i was just learning ? is it a waste that mid next week they will be back on the roof charging my 40kwh battery? Nar i don't think so - like i said in the video - dump load for battery bank. Will be run off 24v direct from batteries controlled by SOC with the BMS - so when battery enter a charged state - it dumps excess into hotwater :)
Still can’t beat gas for heating. Solar hot water is great when you have sunshine.
A Better way is evacuated tube hot water.
Much better for hot water as there are no conversion losses. I.e light to electric to heat.
Bang for buck & accessibility - I think this wins hands down..
Do you have a shop... What's your Facebook
I'm building a bus and I wanna full off grid... 1 person gave me a stupid price... I'm in Melbourne
I do this stuff for fun and to learn not for commercial sorry, I'm in Brisbane
Yeah I'm going to t r y and do it myself
I can do it better for cheaper.
1. get some hose, paint it black
2. coil the hose onto a board
3. connect one end to cold water, the other end to the insulated storage tank
et Voila, no electrical engineering required and you can buy everything at bunnings and still have enough money left for one of their overpriced hotdogs
Ooh fair call right there lol
Point of this was to dump waste power to the hot water system after full battery charge
Sorry to be one of those guys HB, I do enjoy your channel
Then wait for winter to come, freeze and tear all your setup
Great until it freezes and connections push apart or it gets dark and the heat is loss back to the night air or the hose gets too hot and burst and runs a few hundred dollars worth of water into the yard while you'r at work or on vacation.
You will find that it's just as easy to run your hws direct off your solar system. Just add the extra panels and a timer with a contractor. I understand that involves an electrician. But that is the least headaches. But it's fun to play around.
This is going off grid so inverting dc to ac is silly and just don't have the inverter power to do it.
"least headaches" until your tank corrodes
Word of advice, stay on point and stop talking about 30 different things, I came for knowledge not get annoyed and 3/4 in the video I'm barely getting to the meat and potatoes...
Sorry it morning no coffee,
I don't make the videos for you, I make them for me - so if 30 different things i want to rattle out - so be it. Sorry you don't agree but I'm grateful for you letting me know. Perhaps i could do it better.
@@HBPowerwall so you saying you can stop me from making a comment? How bout fuck you and a thumbs down bitch 🖕🖕🖕
Piece of shit waste of time, better ways to heat water idiot for free I may add, but take your butt hurt ass and make another video I won't watch because you a bitch... so there's that fact, fuck constructive criticism since you a bitch.
Do you need a hug?
You're the worst type of troll, you plain suck at it.. you need to work on your craft.. but thanks for the interaction making more money... TOP work!
What the hell is he saying, pass.
Really just like that lol