Maybe a few kg lighter or a little bit stronger, but most of the materials they used have only progressed a little bit today. Nobody has even got close since then, it was truly an exceptional effort.
here in 2020, as an amateur cyclist there is already so much more we know about human physiology - and nutrition, i'm sure a lot came from this project. the computation and materials sciences we have now can be seen in the early stages of these episodes. Thanks for making this doc available..
One of the best aircraft documentary I have seen so far, along the ones on the B777 and on the JSF from NOVA as well. It's nice to see that some of the people involved in this project are now big shot in the field of aeronautics, like Drela or Langford.
Thank you for posting this! I remember this was pretty big news back in the US when it happened. We only had 3 TV channels in 1988, and no internet. So everyone was on the same info stream. Amazing achievement using 1988 technology. Even in 2023, the Daedalus still holds the record for human-powered flight, in both time and distance.
This video had my attention through every step of the way. The amount of energy from all involved was amazing. To think of how many people all worked together for so many hours to make it all possible , it's just awesome . We need more events like this to bring the world together for a positive common goal. It does suck that he didn't make it though. They say close doesn't count except in hand grenades and horshoes, but I think we can make an exception here.
Thank you for uploading. I read the book The Fullness of Wings about this project after my daughter met John Langford through Team America Rocketry Challenge. I blazed through the book and was hooked - even not being an engineer type. What an amazing accomplishment. I have stood below the craft in the DC airport and just been awed by the creativity, knowledge, and skill of the team that created it.
Absolutely amazing. Amazing how the smaller things in life (most people today would see this an aimless venture) are the most incredible. And to imagine what we could do now, I have to search around to see what else has been done.
My comment is not intended to replace anything that the Daedalus Team would say about flying in the summer. I have flown hang gliders since the 1970's, so my experience is that in the summer the air is more turbulent and less laminar as a rule. The probability of structural failure in turbulent winds might have been a factor.
All good points. Hotter air does make it thinner and does give less resistance, but for propeller planes, that results in the propeller having less air each time it "bites." Pilots are cautioned on hot and heavy takeoffs because it takes much longer to reach takeoff airspeed. This was apparently done long ago, but it's still very inspiring!
I try to Imagine.. It is a dream for me to fly on my own Muscle Power. I'm been Hangglider Pilot and Bicycle experienced. And now I'm constructing Things on my CAD. I should try such Stuff..
@rick57hart I have seen some videos from groups experimenting with human-powered flight, but nothing even remotely as ambitious as the Daedalus Project. The effort has withstood the passage of time. It's good to see other people around the world are still as interested in it as I am. Slater
I had read this story before, but it was much better being able to watch this. Thanks so much for uploading the video. Bill Kuhl Inspires me to finish my Allegro Lite sailplane.
True, hot air is indeed less dense, therefore less lift at a given speed. However, by that logic, there would also be less air resistance. Jets actually fly more efficiently in the upper atmosphere where the air is very thin because there is less friction. Obviously, powerful, fast jet flight is very different from human-powered flight, and I don't know how that applies to slow flight.
They've proven that the craft ends up too fragile. You need really ideal conditions and it was extraordinary that they got as good the weather that they did... but it couldn't last. At the end, the wind picked up and challenged the air frame, based on the direction Daedelus had to go and---SNAP. However, the test was technically a success. I think the next test should be a combination of human and solar power. Imagine the possibilities with the pilot being able to take short breaks.
Man if I was the piolt I would have been so pissed off at not getting to land, considering how near he was, but this flight was still amazing. Why aren't we doing it again, let get a move on and build another Daedalus.
I'm glad that they made it and that the pilot was safe. I consider him getting to shore safely a successful flight since the legend is about escape and not about transporting a plane. Way to go Daedalus Project team!
Name plane "Daedalus" Plan flight in Crete, Greece Location provides 3 good days of weather yearly Train 5 pilots on rotation schedule (2 days on, 6 days off) Pilots on 40 day cycle Of the 5 pilots one is Greek The Greek pilot is Countries Top Cyclist Flight starts with tail wind, ending in crash with 90 deg cross (gusting) ... I just love a good story. Thx
@rick57hart To save weight, the crashed plane did not have ailerons to control bank and maintain level wings. Instead, it had dihedral (Diedergruppe) upsweep (Kurve nach oben), but there was not enough.So they fixed the plane, allowed more dihedral and it worked well.
What a great flight, great team and great achievement !!! 22:35 It looks like the gust and the rudder control input to the right at the same time created a torsion at the tail structure and it broke the tail structure. The area of rudder above the " fuselage tube " looks bigger than the area below. It generates rudder torsion during rudder inputs or side gust wind during flight.
Perhaps they could have some extra strength and reduced weight by lightly pressurizing the structural tubes with 14.7 PSI of hydrogen or Helium.... or even 2 Atmospheres of those gasses (29.4 PSI)
@@kd5txo Yes, that is an interesting idea. Also to avoid torsion of the tail tube when rudder is applied , the area of rudder should be the same above and below the tail tube.
The technology and engineering that went into its development was on the cutting edge at the time and required the attention of people who were top experts in their respective fields. No one had ever done what they intended to do before so they had to develop the aircraft from the ground up. Besides, aviation isn't cheap no matter what you're doing. For comparison, a Cessna 172, the single most manufactured model of airplane ever and one of the simplest, costs ~$250,000 new.
By the way: The mythical Daedalus made it to refuge from crete by using selfmade wings, and made it to santorini. Didn`t Kanellos made the same? From my point of view this was a successful flight, and also a successful record-trial.
Reliving a Greek myth takes an effort of mythic proportions, as NOVA reveals in its behind-the-scenes report of a human powered-flight across the Aegean Sea, a journey that symbolically recreated the mythical flight of Daedalus. NOVA follows the epic journey of the human-powered plane Daedalus 88 from the early prototypes to its dramatic landing in the surf after a 74-mile flight from the island of Crete to Santorini.
@sciencetoymaker thank you very much for your soon response. dihedral was the word that i didnt got. do you know, if someone tried a new distance record ? 115 km is realy a giant distance and pedaling for 6 hours must be close to torture, but on the other hand, 24 years has gone by, maybe someone tried it. i didnt heard about it. Thanks a lot Richard.
mmm as a glider pilot I know that full left rudder results in a very slow correction, maybe in a powered aircraft with short wings it can work faster but in a long winged glider its left stick not left rudder or you going to wait a long time for the correction.
Although not expressly stated, it might have been that athletes don't last as long in hot weather. Also, the hot weather might be associated with more wind.
Unfortunately my english is not good enough to get all the words of the narrater. From 2:50 he is talhing aböut the ailerons, dihydro? and upsweep? Can you send me the words from this part? or all the words? thanks a lot. Richard
I wonder if with new materials this could be made even better? Also what about a plane that would use not only the legs but the hands as well? It would allow for a higher resistance that would still be easier to handle with both the hands and legs, and as a result a higher propeller speed... As for the controls, there could be some levers on the hand pedal set, and/or a helmet with strings as well as torso controlled movements.. Maybe modern technologies would even allow for increased sturdiness of the construction without weight gain, as well as less weight for the radio in the cockpit?
Air density also applies for propeller - the thicker the air, the more efficient propeller. Also, with the higher air density you get more benefits for lift than penalty for drag.
@clemofish Vielen Dank. Dihedral war das Wort, dass ich nicht erkannt hatte. Mir hat auch ein slater von scienctoymaker auf Englisch geantwortet. Kannst Du dessen Antwort eigentlich auch sehen?
There is more turbulence in hot weather plus the pilots are sealed in a plastic bubble before they leave, that little hole they crawl out of is closed in flight. Ever sit in a car on a hot day with the windows up? Even a Cessna gets pretty hot inside with the vents open when it's 100 degrees outside and bangs around like it's on bad pavement.
I miss the times when the sky was the limit of human capability and innovation. Something that Walt Disney dreamed ever day of his life about and what Tomorrowland once exemplified.
Jet engines fly at higher altitude due to colder atmosphere and therefore increases the efficiency of jet engines due to faster heat loss. Propeller engines need higher density to create thrust and therefore, in a hot environment, its efficiency will drop. You can't compare propeller engines and jet engines as they have different properties and calculations for efficiency.
watch?v=RD4amc-S88I When this cyclist stopped he couldn't lift his arms. The pouring of water over him made an immediate difference. Seems that the main problem isn't Glucose or ATP shortage, but overheating
you know I thought about this the whole time... like why can a hang glider seem to be able to do all this with ease... and shouldn't headwind be a good thing allowing the pilot to do less work?
You could try, but it wouldn't be particularly useful. Weight is a function of how gravity acts on an object's mass. Unless you go to Mars or a body with less gravity the weight will remain the same. And in fact by adding helium to the wings you've added a not insignificant amount of mass to the craft which despite being less dense than air, will actually make the craft just slightly heavier and make it perform worse. In reality, you might as well make it a pedal powered zeppelin.
Maybe a few kg lighter or a little bit stronger, but most of the materials they used have only progressed a little bit today. Nobody has even got close since then, it was truly an exceptional effort.
This is a classic adventure with a great ending! Thanks for making this video available, Slater!!
Thanks Phil, ' hope you all are well.
Daedalus becomes Icarus, what a flight, The Myth came alive in land that created it . Great Flight and well done Kanellos !
here in 2020, as an amateur cyclist there is already so much more we know about human physiology - and nutrition, i'm sure a lot came from this project. the computation and materials sciences we have now can be seen in the early stages of these episodes. Thanks for making this doc available..
Yes, so true
One of the best aircraft documentary I have seen so far, along the ones on the B777 and on the JSF from NOVA as well.
It's nice to see that some of the people involved in this project are now big shot in the field of aeronautics, like Drela or Langford.
Thank you for posting this! I remember this was pretty big news back in the US when it happened. We only had 3 TV channels in 1988, and no internet. So everyone was on the same info stream. Amazing achievement using 1988 technology. Even in 2023, the Daedalus still holds the record for human-powered flight, in both time and distance.
Thanks Eric. You might also like this earlier effort by the MacCready clan th-cam.com/video/l4wlC1Qex8A/w-d-xo.html
@@sciencetoymaker Wow fantastic! Thank you!
This film was so beautiful and serene! Thank you Slater for preserving it. Great effort and spirit of the Daedalus team.
This docu just never gets old. Every time I watch it I think about different things.
This video had my attention through every step of the way. The amount of energy from all involved was amazing. To think of how many people all worked together for so many hours to make it all possible , it's just awesome . We need more events like this to bring the world together for a positive common goal. It does suck that he didn't make it though. They say close doesn't count except in hand grenades and horshoes, but I think we can make an exception here.
"Looking refreshed after his swim." That was a clever line.
Thank you for uploading. I read the book The Fullness of Wings about this project after my daughter met John Langford through Team America Rocketry Challenge. I blazed through the book and was hooked - even not being an engineer type. What an amazing accomplishment. I have stood below the craft in the DC airport and just been awed by the creativity, knowledge, and skill of the team that created it.
what a mind blowing experience, very cool documentary.
+Enhanced Pyrotechnics Very COOL indeed!!
Great documentary can’t believe I have never seen this on UK tv.
Thanks for posting.
Absolutely amazing. Amazing how the smaller things in life (most people today would see this an aimless venture) are the most incredible. And to imagine what we could do now, I have to search around to see what else has been done.
My comment is not intended to replace anything that the Daedalus Team would say about flying in the summer. I have flown hang gliders since the 1970's, so my experience is that in the summer the air is more turbulent and less laminar as a rule. The probability of structural failure in turbulent winds might have been a factor.
Can you imagine coming that far only to crash into the water yards from the beach?
Poseidon couldn't resist, he wanted that plane. :)
If I was Poseidon I would too.
All good points. Hotter air does make it thinner and does give less resistance, but for propeller planes, that results in the propeller having less air each time it "bites." Pilots are cautioned on hot and heavy takeoffs because it takes much longer to reach takeoff airspeed.
This was apparently done long ago, but it's still very inspiring!
This was done 26 years ago, imagine if today's technology was applied!
I try to Imagine..
It is a dream for me to fly on my own Muscle Power.
I'm been Hangglider Pilot and Bicycle experienced.
And now I'm constructing Things on my CAD.
I should try such Stuff..
Japan does it every year in Biwako Birdman Rally. The latest champion has achieved 60 km, closest distance ever been flown to this record.
Take that people who cant imagine, now imagine their faces, one of them punched me, he was so mad
And yet it was the Gossamer Albatross that inspired them all.
Japan does that every year without any help of NASA nor Navy
Thanks for posting. I saw this when I was young and made a zillion planes out of styrofoam plates and saran wrap. Made my parents crazy.
@rick57hart I have seen some videos from groups experimenting with human-powered flight, but nothing even remotely as ambitious as the Daedalus Project. The effort has withstood the passage of time. It's good to see other people around the world are still as interested in it as I am.
Slater
I had read this story before, but it was much better being able to watch this. Thanks so much for uploading the video. Bill Kuhl Inspires me to finish my Allegro Lite sailplane.
Glad he was wise enough not to fly too close to the sun... Melts the mylar covering....
Duh, the higher you go the colder it gets...
what a plot twist ending xD!
True, hot air is indeed less dense, therefore less lift at a given speed. However, by that logic, there would also be less air resistance. Jets actually fly more efficiently in the upper atmosphere where the air is very thin because there is less friction. Obviously, powerful, fast jet flight is very different from human-powered flight, and I don't know how that applies to slow flight.
What a great accomplishment! A first rate team, perseverance, and choosing the right time to make the flight. The Greek people got what they wanted.
They've proven that the craft ends up too fragile. You need really ideal conditions and it was extraordinary that they got as good the weather that they did... but it couldn't last. At the end, the wind picked up and challenged the air frame, based on the direction Daedelus had to go and---SNAP.
However, the test was technically a success. I think the next test should be a combination of human and solar power. Imagine the possibilities with the pilot being able to take short breaks.
Man if I was the piolt I would have been so pissed off at not getting to land, considering how near he was, but this flight was still amazing. Why aren't we doing it again, let get a move on and build another Daedalus.
I'm glad that they made it and that the pilot was safe. I consider him getting to shore safely a successful flight since the legend is about escape and not about transporting a plane. Way to go Daedalus Project team!
I remember watching this on _NOVA_ in the late 1980s. It was pretty mesmerizing.
Name plane "Daedalus"
Plan flight in Crete, Greece
Location provides 3 good days of weather yearly
Train 5 pilots on rotation schedule (2 days on, 6 days off)
Pilots on 40 day cycle
Of the 5 pilots one is Greek
The Greek pilot is Countries Top Cyclist
Flight starts with tail wind, ending in crash with 90 deg cross (gusting)
...
I just love a good story. Thx
@rick57hart To save weight, the crashed plane did not have ailerons to control bank and maintain level wings. Instead, it had dihedral (Diedergruppe) upsweep (Kurve nach oben), but there was not enough.So they fixed the plane, allowed more dihedral and it worked well.
What a great flight, great team and great achievement !!!
22:35 It looks like the gust and the rudder control input to the right at the same time created a torsion at the tail structure and it broke the tail structure. The area of rudder above the " fuselage tube " looks bigger than the area below. It generates rudder torsion during rudder inputs or side gust wind during flight.
Perhaps they could have some extra strength and reduced weight by lightly pressurizing the structural tubes with 14.7 PSI of hydrogen or Helium.... or even 2 Atmospheres of those gasses (29.4 PSI)
@@kd5txo Yes, that is an interesting idea.
Also to avoid torsion of the tail tube when rudder is applied , the area of rudder should be the same above and below the tail tube.
Very cool! One hell of an accomplishment!
Fantastic, unbelievable !!
The technology and engineering that went into its development was on the cutting edge at the time and required the attention of people who were top experts in their respective fields. No one had ever done what they intended to do before so they had to develop the aircraft from the ground up. Besides, aviation isn't cheap no matter what you're doing. For comparison, a Cessna 172, the single most manufactured model of airplane ever and one of the simplest, costs ~$250,000 new.
By the way: The mythical Daedalus made it to refuge from crete by using selfmade wings, and made it to santorini. Didn`t Kanellos made the same? From my point of view this was a successful flight, and also a successful record-trial.
Awesome stuff. I love anything human powered and human powered flight is no exception.
This is awesome! They were soooo close; if he hadn't hesitated to land, they would have made it.
GREAT WORK AND FLYING ALWAYS LAND INTO THE WIND FOR MAX CONTROL GOOD JOB TEAM.
Reliving a Greek myth takes an effort of mythic proportions, as NOVA reveals in its behind-the-scenes report of a human powered-flight across the Aegean Sea, a journey that symbolically recreated the mythical flight of Daedalus. NOVA follows the epic journey of the human-powered plane Daedalus 88 from the early prototypes to its dramatic landing in the surf after a 74-mile flight from the island of Crete to Santorini.
Thanks for putting this up...I'll have to show the kiddos.
@sciencetoymaker thank you very much for your soon response. dihedral was the word that i didnt got. do you know, if someone tried a new distance record ? 115 km is realy a giant distance and pedaling for 6 hours must be close to torture, but on the other hand, 24 years has gone by, maybe someone tried it. i didnt heard about it. Thanks a lot Richard.
Very good documentary. Thank you.
Greetings from Greece!
mmm as a glider pilot I know that full left rudder results in a very slow correction, maybe in a powered aircraft with short wings it can work faster but in a long winged glider its left stick not left rudder or you going to wait a long time for the correction.
When they got the right kind of carbon fiber, the airplane weight was about 31 kg.
Although not expressly stated, it might have been that athletes don't last as long in hot weather. Also, the hot weather might be associated with more wind.
WHOOOOHOOOO!!! DAMN! He almost made it!!! GREAT VIDEO!
American Aerolights Eagle Weightshift Pilot
:D
Thank you for putting this up !
Is the next thing will be pedals on passenger aeroplanes for each passenger ?
I remember when Greg Zack lived in Lexington, Ky. He was a good guy. I hope he is doing well.
Unfortunately my english is not good enough to get all the words of the narrater. From 2:50 he is talhing aböut the ailerons, dihydro? and upsweep? Can you send me the words from this part? or all the words? thanks a lot. Richard
Thank you huge from a bike rider.
Mike
@rick57hart Yes, I agree. The drama at the end made the story even richer.
Slater
Thanks for the upload man!!
I wonder if with new materials this could be made even better? Also what about a plane that would use not only the legs but the hands as well? It would allow for a higher resistance that would still be easier to handle with both the hands and legs, and as a result a higher propeller speed... As for the controls, there could be some levers on the hand pedal set, and/or a helmet with strings as well as torso controlled movements.. Maybe modern technologies would even allow for increased sturdiness of the construction without weight gain, as well as less weight for the radio in the cockpit?
+mkzhero I agree, technology enables records to be broken!
Because the limiting factor is not his muscular endurance but cardiovascular endurance. Adding hands wouldn't help.
oh man that just made my heart sink when that wing snapped... Has there been many attempts since then?
Air density also applies for propeller - the thicker the air, the more efficient propeller. Also, with the higher air density you get more benefits for lift than penalty for drag.
Thank you for sharing this!
Sheiße!!! Fifty meters from shore!!! The only Nova documentary more frustrating is Last Flight of the Kee Bird.
enjoyable thanks for putting this up .....
umm..amazing what year it is?
16:03 - matching 70's moustaches for the win !
Does anyone know why they couldn't fly when it got hotter during the summer? Wind? Air pressure? Why did the narrator state that?
@clemofish Vielen Dank. Dihedral war das Wort, dass ich nicht erkannt hatte. Mir hat auch ein slater von scienctoymaker auf Englisch geantwortet. Kannst Du dessen Antwort eigentlich auch sehen?
There is more turbulence in hot weather plus the pilots are sealed in a plastic bubble before they leave, that little hole they crawl out of is closed in flight. Ever sit in a car on a hot day with the windows up? Even a Cessna gets pretty hot inside with the vents open when it's 100 degrees outside and bangs around like it's on bad pavement.
I miss the times when the sky was the limit of human capability and innovation. Something that Walt Disney dreamed ever day of his life about and what Tomorrowland once exemplified.
Rudder and evevator only on a 112ft wing. Bold move.
when its hot, there is less air molecules per unit volume hence less propulsion force
At 21:00 I found myself jumping on my chair and yelling some Hurraaah...! like if my fatherland achievement.
woudnt it be better if it had a propeller under the plane also?
¡Gracias por el video men!
When can we buy tickets to fly as passengers? ha Just use 4-6 athletes pedaling their asses off for passenger flights.
Awesome video!
I wanted to do this 60 years ago but my wife said I was out of my mind She also said nobody would buy water
Outstanding...
Thank you NOVA
Great job. Hope to one day fly one
Jet engines fly at higher altitude due to colder atmosphere and therefore increases the efficiency of jet engines due to faster heat loss. Propeller engines need higher density to create thrust and therefore, in a hot environment, its efficiency will drop. You can't compare propeller engines and jet engines as they have different properties and calculations for efficiency.
Amazing.
Я в восторге! Молодцы!
inspiring documentary
I heard that the in-flight service is not that good.
Have they retried this with todays technology? I would imagine what we have not a days is much stronger and much lighter.
Great doco:-)
Great job ..!!
Amazing human beings!!!
AMAZING JUST AMAZING
watch?v=RD4amc-S88I
When this cyclist stopped he couldn't lift his arms. The pouring of water over him made an immediate difference. Seems that the main problem isn't Glucose or ATP shortage, but overheating
He pedaled all that way only to realise he forgot his passport so couldn't land.
Amazing nice stuff!!
Full right rudder. The aircraft was slicing through the wide sidewards.
MIT geniuses thought it was a good idea to not have ailerons :-|
Because it's unnecessary weight... c:
Just stick your hands out the window, now curve em slightly, boom! The ailerons that god gave you.
you know I thought about this the whole time... like why can a hang glider seem to be able to do all this with ease... and shouldn't headwind be a good thing allowing the pilot to do less work?
You could try, but it wouldn't be particularly useful. Weight is a function of how gravity acts on an object's mass. Unless you go to Mars or a body with less gravity the weight will remain the same. And in fact by adding helium to the wings you've added a not insignificant amount of mass to the craft which despite being less dense than air, will actually make the craft just slightly heavier and make it perform worse. In reality, you might as well make it a pedal powered zeppelin.
Wow, 00:15:46 Steve had a recumbent bicycle back in the 80's
I clap my hands to the achievement ....!!!!!!!
+Gilad Shahar Very good achievement !!! That was nearly 30 yrs ago,imagine what can be achieved today!
What dat mean he don pumptet up ah drino leen?
+Carol Stevens
oh my lord please be a troll
"their worst fears were realized" - they weren't afraid of someone falling to their death?
Wouldn't right rudder have been more appropriate before the crash?
brilliant achievement but can you please pronounce Daedalus properly (day-da-lus)?
Did this guy just say hind sight is 2020? My guy 2020 was a bad year..... glad its in all of our hind sight.
@rollbin It was around 1988