Pilots Violated After Making Wrong Turn
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Airlines put 2 pilots on the flight deck to make sure if the first one misses something the second one catches it. This is what happens when both pilots miss it.
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I once got the dreaded "Please call this number after you land," but I was pretty sure I hadn't done anything wrong. At least, no one demanded I "Say intentions" indicating I was where I shouldn't be or pointed the wrong way.
I placed the call, and all they wanted was my input on a Lear Jet that was in the pattern and made an unexpected 360. They were pretty pissed at that other pilot. I was pretty pissed I didn't own a Lear.
Famous words: "I'm in a high-fidelity first class travelling set and I think I need a Learjet..." -- Pink Floyd.
I've gotten a call like this when I was a flight instructor, there was a loss of separation between my aircraft and another IFR aircraft in front of me. Took a few days, but after the logs and tapes were reviewed it was found that I was not at fault and neither was my student, the tower controller made a mistake. Getting that call was the biggest weight off my shoulders in a long time.
so did they punish the atc?
@@tboniusmaximus3047firing squad
@@Mightiflierhanging
"Be honest, don't make excuses and learn from your mistakes" is something that applies to ALL careers.
And life.
You wont make it very far if your career is politics and play by those rules. Also a lot of sales jobs.
@@14arma Agreed Doc G. But I had a Iot of interaction with sales folk. Many were very conscientious. And some just walked away from problems. In my experience, the sales folk that were conscientious made a lot more sales. Building relations more than sales per se. Now, politics is another matter alright! But I agree with Abslom, this lesson applies applies across the board.
Keep telling yourself that.
@@Cancun771 What do you tell yourself?
Hearing “I got a phone number for you to copy” from ATC is the equivalent of knowing you are going to get suspended in high school when the “principal wants to see you.” 😢
It’s by far worse believe me
Oh yeah
It's actually more like seeing red and blue lights fleshing on the car behind you. ATC can issue citations (the paper kind police give you, not the Cessna) but usually it's just a warning, so long as you're not a jerk.
I don't remember having that certain feeling when my boyfriend saying *"We need to talk"* in high-school (never had any boyfriend until I was a lot older, and until middle-age I never got that "talk").😅
But I do remember the feeling when my teachers said *"The principle needs to talk with your parents"* several times since Elementary School... 🤣
Still, I think this is 100x scarier...
WAHOO !! 3 day stay-cation !!!
I'm a retired air traffic controller. After all these years I still love aviation and I much appreciate your channel. Keep up the good work.
Did you ever give pilots a number to call?
What a great career....!!!!!!
@@Jeremy_the_bot of course he gave a number for pilots to call ... especially if she was really cute 😉😎
Those were my operating initials, LU
@ SCT
Be honest and take responsibility is true, not just for pilots.. for everybody. Being honest, making a mistake and learning from it is how you grow and makes you a better person.
Kelsey is a great guy and why I'm a long time subscriber that's not a pilot.
That takes humility. Lacking in our society.
@@arielsea9087 Unfortunately true.
This definitely applies to mistakes in the medical field.
@@arielsea9087 It also takes a lack of a blame culture which is lacking even more.
But if your network ratings are at stake. Lie
How Kelsey (and all pilots) can understand that high speed prattle from ATC is beyond me. It's like someone on a radio mumbling under their breath how to defuse the atom bomb you're strapped to. Totally outside my ability. I'd be infuriating ATCs by asking them to repeat instructions. A lot.
It's a language, if you speak it, you can understand it... we dont know what to excpect to hear, a pilot does...
"cledlan"
I dont work in aviation, but on the railroad which has simmilarily weird jargon and after a while you just get used to it
When I was a teenager, I lived in a country with a language other than English for a period of time. I had a working knowledge of that language (3 years in class), but for the life of me, I couldn’t understand anyone when I heard them, let alone respond. Then, one day, around 30 days after I got there, I was hanging out with some fellow kids and realized that not only did I understand what everyone was saying, I really had no problem talking back. It was like my semantic network had hit a saturation point, and like a light switch, everything worked. ATC is like that too. At first it’s all “mumble mumble hold short 20mumble”, and then one day you hear yourself fluently talking with control, and rattling off read backs no prob. It’s the very same thing.
As others have said, it comes with experience. Same with speaking the jargon
I love the way you explain in great detail....I could kick back and listen to all your pilot stories over a beer
He has to be a teacher
Kelsey is the kind of guy I'd like to chat with over a beer in general. I bet we'd have some laughs
You can have a beer & Kelsey can have free breakfast! 😄
Honestly I would prefer to hear what other people have to say about Kelsey. And by that I mean I just want to hear them talk about how he's so angelic and always stays out of trouble of course. 😏
He’s very intent when watching the video. As if he wants to fix the problem real-time.
@@arielsea9087 His break down of situations is genius
I got my pilots license back in 1978 as a 19 year old teenager. Flying was easy, the hard part was ground school for me. Had I been able to listen to these videos you make, I would have been much more confident getting on the radio. I really enjoy hearing these, thanks.
Aye, I’m struggling in my ground now. Flying comes naturally but I’m doing my best to push through the ground. I’m looking to do my solos soon but my instructors are holding me from it until I pass the in house oral.
I violated DC airspace once due to weather at low altitude (in a PA-25) and I couldn't get anyone on the radio to let them know what I was doing. By the time I made radio contact I was already out of the airspace and getting ready to land. Yep I had to call a number. Once they checked the weather and found it was worse than my briefing, all was good. Then I advised them to check on the 121.5 radio cause that wasn't working either (yes I tried it). Turns out that was out of service and not NOTAMed.
Right as I read this a PA-25 flew over me
Everyone loves 74 Gear... Pure class
Reminds me one of my favorite quotes (supposedly) from Mark Twain: “Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more.”
I have seen people who can brilliantly accept zero fault and always be able to twist it to someone else's fault. But you are right. For the rest of us, being a little humble and accepting some fault will help us escape a lot of unwise decisions.
@@Jeremy_the_bot When at one engineering company as a software developer back in the early 1980s, I was walking down the hallway one afternoon and ran into the company's two hatchetmen.
One of them asked me how I was doing and I said that I was real happy because I had just fixed a problem that had been bugging me a couple of days.
His response was, "But who caused the problem?"
I responded with "Me. I screwed up the data when I did this and this."
They continued on down the hallway.
At a party about three or four years later, the one who had been the one I was talking to told me that I could never have impressed the other one more than I did that day. He said that in that entire company, there was only one or two people who would admit fault on anything and that I readily admitted fault on an issue that took two or three days to fix put me in the best of light.
Kelsey, this was one of the best “inside baseball” videos I have seen from you, and appreciate the proper context, respect, and detail you provided. You are a class act.
Kelsey - just dropping in to say thank you once again for educating me on all things flying, and doing it with a great sense of humor. I found your channel about 2 years ago and still look forward to that little bell letting me know it’s Kelsey time once again! ❤
The dreaded, "WE NEED TO TALK" transmission from ATC... Well covered Kelsey - especially the part about being honest and take it as a learning experience. Integrity, honesty and humility are among some of the most important qualities every pilot needs to ensure a long career.
Thanks Kelsey for taking the time to share your knowledge with us. It really helps me.
I feel like “I have a number for you to copy” hits the same as when your parents say your full name. I swear the only reason we have middle names is so we know when we’re in trouble!
I dislike my full name even today because of that exact reason.
Time to break generational trauma. I use my children's middle names lovingly.
I love this one just because you can read so much into the pilots' voices lol. The silence, then the "...go ahead ready to copy" said in such a defeated tone.
Great lesson. I think everyone who has flown for a number of years.has received that dreaded call. I got mine flying out of CAFB , CA. I was instructing students (3pilots) and I either missed an altitude or heading as we were hopping between airports. I called once we were on the ground. Apologized profusely and owned it. Nothing came from the incident; however, I was much more attentive after that flight.
Yep, happened to me during IFR training. I admit it was a brain fart, but I was greeted by the nastiest controller possible. First, I wanted to get clearance to do a missed approach and go to the hold fix and learn how to properly enter and fly a proper hold (I didn’t have a graphic gps so I had to time each leg). The approach controller yelled at me and said I cannot practice at his airport KGON. He was really nasty to me so I just went ahead with a missed approach . Turned me over tower and I just declared a missed approach and wanted to go back to my home airport KHPN. Here’s the mistake, which is my own fault. I continued flying but missed the right turn she told me to do. Then, to my surprise, had me go back to approach and the shit hit the fan! The same nasty controller said I was given a right turn. Then quite intentionally and overly aggressive told me “so you want to do some holding practice, he sent me to the hold fix at the appropriate altitude. After two circuits, he had me climb a thousand feet while still in hold. Two circuits later, another altitude change. By now I knew, for sure, he was enjoying torturing me. I could have just given up and flown away VFR, but I didn’t want to give this aggressive, vindictive controller the satisfaction by cancelling IFR. But during the third altitude change, my head was pounding so I cancelled IFR. That’s when I got the “ we have to talk!” He asked me why I deviated from the right turn and I honestly apologized and said that I was in training and had made a mistake. He had rattled me early with his brutal admonishment against practicing at his airport. Are you ready to copy a number, he asked. I copied it down and when we returned home my instructor called. He said it was his fault and spoke with someone. He asked to pull the tapes and see what this controller had put me through since the beginning and during the hold. I was really flustered and didn’t fly IFR for a week. There are nice ways to get a point across and I happened to come across one with a real bad attitude. Nothing came of it.
Weird that they weren’t okay with practice approaches. KGON is super popular among student / IFR training pilots. I’ve not had an issue there (yet at least) but I usually tic tac toe my approaches so on the go I can transition almost immediately to my next approach. I try to keep my practice holds out in lower traffic areas. My guess is because there are so many low hour pilots they want to minimize unnecessary traffic, even when you have every right to be there. I have heard some abrasive calls with Bradley approach before too so you’re not alone. I heard (unconfirmed) through the grape vine they had a couple close calls a few years ago and since have been under the microscope. I think that’s why some of the controllers out there will chew you out for anything shy of perfection.
I also like to add in the remarks section of my filed flight plan that it’s an IFR training flight. I figure they might be a little more understanding if they realize it before hand.
It always amazes me that VFR flight or swiching to VFR is some kind of magic happening in the US. Like the aircraft disappears and is no factor to anything. Do You have so much D or E class airspace there?
In Europe we have more C or B I guess. So (just an example) if You would switch to VFR in that hold, it is still be my job as a controller to find Your way out of it followed by further instructions and clearences.
Also "possible pilot's deviation" sounds always funny to me. We just give a number to clarify situation or file a report without taking unnecessary time on frequency. Knowing that just culture is one of the bases in our job.
@@sirgryzli6284 We have a TON of class E and G in the US, for some pilots, after training, they could go their whole private pilot life without entering a class D or above airport.
@@sirgryzli6284 Outside if the BIG cities we have a crap ton of space. on a decent day you can just declare VFR and mind your business (just be smart about it :)
Human factors are a big thing and ATC sounds like they were causing undue stress
Sunday morning video from Kelsey is as comforting as a good cup of coffee.
And both at the same time = perfection
"be honest and tell the truth"....reminds me of the saying "Eat Crow when it's young and tender lest you are forced to eat it when it's old and tough"
I've heard of eating crow, but not that bit of elaboration/advice. I'll remember that one.
Pilots Violated?!? Boy, the FAA is tougher than I thought😳
Get violated. Tell us how it feels
I'm amazed how pilots can listen and follow a controller quickly saying a lot of numbers and things with audio quality that matches a drive-through speaker. A slight misunderstanding can lead to big trouble and you can have pilots/controllers from all around the world.
A lot of times it's clearer for the pilots since the recording software doesn't get as good of a reception, but not always and we have to have them repeat.
This is why I believe in the "T brief", in which you go across the autopilot panel and describe what is set and how you are going to use it. "Heading select at 400 feet, Vnav at 1000, I've got our heading 235, you've got the derate in...." and so forth.
If they had done this, they would have caught that they weren't cleared to a fix, they were cleared to fly a heading.
This sort of mistake is real easy to make! Phraseology can help as well, "Cleared for takeoff runway 24, left to 235 degrees" could have clued them in as well.
Great video!
At Qatar Airways we would read Directly from the FMC ( ACARS , and printed Clearance ckd .) : Rwy - Dep - Transition , verify : set / reset the MCP / Transponder / Dep. Frequency.
Then I would punch the Performance page waiting for the Loadsheet , at the same time having the EFB ready.
Meanwhile , Everybody was talking to you !
Getting the Loadsheet - Print it , Sign it , Check the Logbook is signed and on Board .
Give the signed Loadsheet copy to the Station Manager , clear the Senior Purser to close the door ...and Get Everyone Out of the Flight Deck 😎 , Before you punch Performance Numbers on the EFB and FMC .
Cheers Mate !
@@giancarlogarlaschi4388 Sounds familiar. We do the departure brief from the Jeppesen page, then get the prelim and do the performance. After the performance briefing, we then do the "T brief". The T brief is a quick 30 second statement of just how the departure would be flown and what would be on the screens/radios. Works well.
Cheers!
@@Flies2FLL
For us it was a Very Precise step by step process, with a through briefing before asking Departure Clearance , so then , when we got to Performance Numbers , we had Only to Check Weight - CG - Trim - Speeds.
I Always wanted to arrive Early to my Plane, just to have plenty of time and Not be Rushed.
Its SILLY to Rush an Stress yourself on Preflight , when you will be flying for 13 /16 hours ...
I'm Happily Retired now ...but I will Always Remember my " Line Days ".
All the Best !
😎😉
Ps. During the Departure Brief we would have airport / departure SID on the EFB .
@@giancarlogarlaschi4388 that's great but none of what you listed would catch the assigned heading of 235. It wouldn't be in your fmc, printed clearance, efb, or anything else you mentioned. What Flies2FLL mentions about "heading select at 400 ft" would remind you to initially fly an assigned heading instead of what's in the box.
@@toddsmith8608
Not Blaming anyone ...just saying how we did it .
Nobody is Perfect on our Profession.
Your are adressing a Very Basic issue ...
And haven't you had a late heading , direct to before entering the Rwy ?
Comm' on ...
I once got a "we have a number for you to call" from NY Approach after there was some confusion about my altitude assignment. When I called, they apologized to me for not handling me as the ifr flight that I was. Apparently, while I was completing the short flight they verified I had filed ifr, got clearance before takeoff and was checked in ifr after takeoff with an ifr altitude assignment. But, apparently the handoff-ee controller took me as vfr. There was no issue and the weather was vfr. Seemed no biggie to me but apparently it was a significant error judging by the way they acted.
I'll always remember that. Made me feel like a big important pilot in my little Mooney.
1million subscribers! Congrats!
Glad you’re still making these videos
Agreed. Anytime someone says "please call" or "come to my office", heart drops and thinking "oh crap, what did I do this time?"
Happened to me this week. The boss of my boss requested a visit in his office. Actually, he was pretty nice, chatty and friendly, making jokes and all that. The knife he stuck in my back still hurts, though.
@@michaelm1 I too had a similar experience this week! My boss' boss got straight to the point (saved the pleasantries for after). Half of us were told to find jobs elsewhere (my boss included). Fortunately my contract gives me six months' notice.
Luckily for me, I had detailed documentation against my antagonists that saved my job! 12 pages, 11-font, single-space, narrow border, of the prior 9 months. I was transferred out! 😊
I had that happen to me once, at a very unexpected time and place (during some military training away from my home unit). I was pretty freaked out about what I did.
Found out a close friend I was stationed with was killed.
So I don't handle those calls the same way anymore
Manipulative managerial types use that tactic. Ignore it.
As a Roanoke resident, I never thought I'd hear Kelsey talk about KROA in one of his videos. We're not exactly a major hub, just a small regional airport in a bowl of mountains.
Yup I'm in Bedford, loved doing landings jn KROA during training, never thought they'd be on this channel lol
I went to college in C-burg about 30 years ago. I was once over the area at sunset. Nothing like seeing the Mill Mt Star from above.
@@KKEM641 In MSFS 2020 the Star is just a star shaped building flat on the ground. Very disappointing!
@derail516 sad...too bad it could not be 3D...I still remember seeing the Star from I-81 the first time at night..
Same here
Once again I see parallels with other professions. I'm a nightshift team leader in IT support. I drill into my team that all of us WILL make mistakes, and the first thing to do is pause & tell another team member. Don't try to whitewash it or bury it. Unless there has been a deliberate and malicious intent, something discriminatory or violent, pretty much everything else can be dealt with. I play my role and remain the person ultimately responsible to my own management, I don't throw the individual under the bus, and all of us try to gather some learning. We can't change what's happened. This mindset works well for us because some nights it's my own turn to mess up. That happened recently, I did exactly what I ask of others, we worked it out and it was fine. Someone else made a mistake more recently that ended up being quite impactive, but again we followed our rules & we sorted it out calmly. Until someone invents a time machine, mistakes will happen in all industries and it's our shared responsibility as professionals to identify and control them with timeliness & honesty.
I hear you and agree! Whether doctoring or digging ditches, piloting is pouring pancake batter, if EVERYONE treated their jobs, and peers, as if it/they're the best, things would be so much better!
Mistakes get worse when covered up. Being open and addressing right away is good practice. OP has a good system.
I'd much rather work at a place where, if a mistake is made, the goal is to fix the issue, learn from it, and see if there's some change needed to make sure it doesn't happen again, than a place where the goal is to assign blame and cover one's rear end.
Reading back IFR clearance is one of my favorites. Especially when I manage to write everything and repeat back on the first attempt 😂
I guess we are all complacent with the usual "fly runway heading", or being given a SID. This time they were given something different, and it messed up their "usual flow". Luckily, I fly Warriors, 172s, and Seminoles. No fancy electronics to load 😂
Ah but in this case, they were not told fly rnwy heading but 235°. And this arpts current heading for rnwy 24 is 237°. This why we must read and articulate slow, not to slow but not ricky-racer fast because theres no contest and no one will be impressed with "speed of read-back", until this happens, then they're unimpressed that the simple directives were not followed and how someone was not paying attention. I see it often in newer pilots and more in younger first time, non military and non line experianced, under age 30 pilots. Slow down, listen closely, triple check everything. Its these ever more common mistakes that are pushing aircraft manufacturers and various regulating agencies like faa, to remove pilots from the cockpit and push for AI & autonomus systems.
@@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq not too slow
@@NoName-zn1sb That is kind of obvious duh.
What I did t understand was the Right turn.
If the Clearance was fly heading of 235°, Runway departure was 238°, then wouldn't that be a slight Left turn?
@Chris lnFlorida that's the deviation. They were cleared to 235 (almost RW heading), but their response is that they thought they were cleared to the first waypoint, which is way to the right. That is because, after reading back the 235, they didn't change the plan on the flight computer. So, instead than the slight left to 235, they turned right directly HVQ.
So, after departure they turned right when not cleared to do so. When the departure controller asks if tower cleared them for right turn (implying that she didn't have that information. And indeed tower had not cleared them for the right turn), they say that they had been cleared for the first waypoint, which required the right turn. But this was wrong, so their right turn constitute a pilot deviation from the clearance of following heading 235
Here is what I've learned from Kelsey and 74 Gear in the few years that I've been enjoying it: I would be SUCH a terrible airline pilot.
Same. Lol. I would be overwhelmed at the first sight of a problem. Thank God for the professionals in the flight deck!
2:42 as a programmer I feel sorry for pilots when their instructions look as cryptic as Assembly language
You should see the CPDLC reroutes we get! Sometimes it's easier to just call and get every confirmed from the controller.
This is among 1 of probably 1000 other "gotcha's" that we encounter daily with ATC as pilots. Then you have the controller who is a fast talker, the controller who uses non-standard phraseology, the controller that can't keep his callsigns straight, the list goes on, and it all comes down to the pilot being able to read the instructions back, understand the instructions and then follow them.
Chris, you're right, but you gotta admit there's a long list of these same things and more that us pilots are guilty of. No way would I want to be a controller!😁
@@toddsmith8608 I never said that pilots were without guilt when it comes to pilot deviations/violations. I have nothing but the highest respect for our controllers here in the US! I was simply stating that there are a multitude of external factors/additive conditions that can result in a pilot deviation.
I still believe all ATC should spend some time in cockpit, and all comercial pilots should spend some time in tower.
Even if simulator for both jobs.
@@DRV-mt5dd 100% accurate, I learned a ton by taking fam trips and riding in the cockpit.
Another great Sunday video from my favorite 747 pilot, well done Kelsey!
Ode to the Automatic Pilot:
I really hate this damned machine;
I wish that they would sell it.
It never does quite what I want;
But only what I tell it.
Replacing "want" with "mean" would rhyme
Hi Kelsey, This is one of my favourite videos from yourself. It's detailed, but the explanation is the key. I'm a simmer & love this type of information. Honesty is always the best policy, Slainte ❤
As a retired center controller and now an Airbus captain I can say that a Brasher warning does not mean a certainty of a pilot deviation. Many times it’s just a chat and that’s the end of it.
At 10:21 it`s Hotel Victor Quebec...other than that...a great informative video as always. Thank you Kelsey!
THATS MY HOME AIRPORT!! Wow best video of yours yet!
It’s not the mistake you make that gets you in trouble, it’s how you deal with it.
I wish people understood this when talking to police.
Think nixon
Think Clinton
My favorite part of Sunday is when Kelsey drops a new Video!
ATC is like the disappointed dad of the skies
I know what you meant on the title of the video, but I'm gonna be honest, my mind went.....somewhere else when I first read it.
The title was phrased in an interesting way, I was thrown for a loop 😂 I thought pilots were literally violated
I knew they hadn’t been, but all the same it was misleading.
Welcome to the internet.
Clickbait
@@iangosling28"Violated" meaning "cited for a violation" is standard jargon in at least a couple contexts; I would imagine it is here as well.
As a controller, I’ve got a couple things: I’ve never heard a heading given during a pre-departure clearance like that. Maybe this place has different procedures than other facilities but I’ve never been taught to do it that way. Headings are normally given during a takeoff clearance or a release from an uncontrolled airport. Second, it sounds like the departure controller didn’t have much going on. I’ve never violated a pilot unless there was a safety problem, like a loss of separation or going into an MVA or something like that. Otherwise I let it go if nothing bad happened. That’s not necessarily a good policy on my part but I usually err on the side of no harm, no foul. That being said, in this particular case the tower or a supervisor might have questioned what happened, so it might have become an official thing.
And for pilots reading this, remember it’s a POSSIBLE pilot deviation. A lot will depend on the phone call and the circumstances involved. If I was this pilot I’d definitely mention that they didn’t get assigned a heading during takeoff, and I’d make sure not to cop an attitude with the person you’re talking to…this is usually going to be a supervisor who should have reviewed any recordings and talked to the controller involved. Filing a NASA form will also cover you in most situations so make sure to do that. The supervisor may just remind you to make sure you’re clear on procedures and let it go at that, they won’t necessarily elevate the situation to FSDO.
So just a quick follow-up, I asked around and there are some places where issuing a heading during the pre-departure clearance is common practice. I’ve still never heard it myself at the three facilities I’ve worked at so it must be a regional thing.
I get a heading on the clearance all the time
Pretty common at Delta towers for light aircraft to get a heading as part of the clearance, but also more common to hear radar vectors -- makes it really clear we aren't going to a fix. Usually from delivery or ground at smaller airports. Bigger airports a heading tends to come from tower.
@@rsavela2 Yeah, the scenario in this video is exactly why I wouldn’t recommend giving a heading until takeoff or until releasing from an uncontrolled airport. But it’s not technically wrong, I just haven’t heard it done that way before.
I've always had good experiences with controllers, I just tell them hey I'm a student pilot. Only question I was asked is what is the reason for my go around. I responded I overshot my turn so he made me do a couple of 360s lol. I also think I was given an intersection departure once but I taxied all the way to the end. I imagine he just sighed as I taxied to the end of a 9000ft runway in a piper Cherokee. It was my first solo at a class delta airport. Thanks for what you all do everyday!
I must admit, when I first read the title for this video I thought something quite sinister had happened to the pilots...
Good morning Kelsey from Buenos Aires I love your videos.Thank you so much
"Pilots Violated after making wrong turn" - honestly, I knew it wasn't what it sounded like, but the mental image is still there XD
Good morning Kelsey! BWI was having a big 747 party yesterday. I wondered if you were there. Cargo was unbelievably busy. Have a beautiful week, sir. We so appreciate you. ❤
So much knowledge and it's such a shame no big filming studio has a decency to hire a pilot for consultaiton, whenever they shoot a plane scenes.
I love this video please keep going. Keep up the good work!
I fly in and out of ROA frequently. Depending on which controller you get, they can be pretty level headed and chill.
Pretty much decides that entire area....
Thanks! Mistakes happen. Keep on trucking or flying.
I teach in the area around DC and Camp David. I teach all my students to keep Guard in the second radio, as they are supposed to do. Every few weeks we'll hear, "aircraft at a specific location and distance from a given point, this is the US Air Force on guard. You are approaching restricted airspace. Turn around now." It's said in a testy voice. If the person doesn't listen to several warnings, they are told, "You have entered restricted airspace. Leave and land at the closest airport." That tone isn't just testy...it's hostile. If they have to be intercepted, it's even less pleasant. At that point, the pilot can expect a suspended certificate or extra training depending on the circumstances. Potomac approach can be testy just because they are Potomac. However, most controllers in the area are great to work with. The class D airports in the area, especially, are great with stupid student pilot solo tricks. I seldom hear anyone get the transmission to call the tower. It's usually a fast controller to student teaching moment, which is greatly appreciated by everyone involved.
Great controllers are always awesome, especially with students. Teaching out of Vero Beach, all of the tower controllers were really great to my students, especially when they were on solos.
@@Captain_Reaper - Do student pilots declare they are on solo flights? Or do the controllers just deduce it from their communications?
@@wickedcabinboy in my experience students declare if they're flying solo while still working on their Private certificate. I certainly advised all of my students to declare they were on a first solo or a solo flight with the initial tower controller. Our controllers were pretty used to that.
@@Captain_Reaper - On first solo? You can bet I'd do that.
@@wickedcabinboy At KROA they know who the students are from the plane and communications. If you are flying a DA-40, you are probably a student!
Absolutely wonderful descriptions of the Victor airways!
You know it's gonna be good when you hear "prepare to copy a number"
Thank you for another awesome video today.
You always make so much sense when explaining things to us.
Have a great Sunday. Blessings, Carlos ✝️🙏❤️😊❗️
I hate getting violated when I'm flying. 😁
That title was a real toss up “pilot violated “
This is more important than it seems I think. Remember the Comair at Lexington? Routine and early morning fuzz made BOTH pilots ignore the fact that they lined up on the wrong (too short) runway. Sad day. So maybe the protocol needs to change so that the heading is not announced until the plane is cleared for takeoff. I can see how he slipped this one.
With all the additional info given in this video, it took me 2 viewings to understand what happened.
Long story short,
1) The clearance included an initial heading.
2) The initial heading was not entered into the computer (if that's a thing).
3) Both pilots forgot about the initial heading.
Love your content, Kelsey!
good advice Kessley .admit your mistake and what you learned, have done that in the past (not a pilot lol), and have had new trainees where I worked always said the same, make a mistake tell me, and then we will sort it out, found it always worked well, and help with "trust" in a work environment.
A warm fuzzy feeling! As a pilot I agree, it's good to feel cared by ATC
Clear and concise communication is critical in human interaction. I agree that ATC should leave nothing out. However, I’ve learned that owning mistakes or oversights usually has the best outcomes.
Great vid Kelsey, ive been a crew scheduler all my working life, one time i screwed up, my mistake, had no flight deck in JFK, to fly to LHR, i had this magic plan, that i could put in place to cover my error, but it was messy, so i fessed up, and said it, and what did i get? the sack, ? no, told, thanks for be honest, now go and sort the problem, i slept better that night knowing it worked out fine, it takes a loong time to realise that telling the truth, is actually the right decision
"Pilots Violated" had me thinking something very different had happened. Seemed rather harsh for a wrong turn.
Eh I suspect clickbait.
@@mikoto7693 Yeah, that occurred to me. Wasn't sure if Kelsey would do that or not.
@@RobinHood70 The thing is that I think it might have had a different name a few days ago. I think I remember seeing it before but I could also be mistaken and remembering a different video. Either way this title makes me wonder.
@@mikoto7693I don't know if it applies here, but "violate" is standard jargon for "formally cite [and possibly further punish] for having committed a violation" in some contexts.
@@logitimate Unless you’re responding to a comment that’s been deleted or made invisible to me, I’m not sure what your point is. Yeah, I know the different contexts of the word “violate.” I’m not stupid. The whole point of the comment I answered is that it could have been read both ways.
I remarked that it was possibly clickbait and that I thought the title was different from a few days before. I’m really not sure why that caused you to think that I’m stupid or ignorant about the English language but I’m not.
Great video. Love this channel and the effort you put into them.
Though not a pilot, I learn a lot to implement into my simming.
Usually it's up to a controller to give the deviation or not. The pilots attitude makes a huge difference. Admit the mistake and ppl can move on. If you sound like you don't know then, we have to talk because it's a safety issue and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Typically when not filing a SID, the clearance is “as filed fly head 235 radar vectors”. That little statement really helps.
I will be a pilot in my next life because of you! Love your videos as a couch pilot in this life, though!
Amazing that something simple that gives the pilots some confidence and comfort is not required by atc.
There was that time Harrison Ford landed on a taxiway. He got a number and they had the phone call recorded.
He calls the tower and says, :This is the (dumbass) who landed on the taxiway." He didn't try to make excuses and he didn't argue and just he just got a warning.
A lot of people called out "celebrity privilege" but a lot of pilots said this was a typical result.
The media tried to make a big deal that her flew over an airliner but it wasn't really a near disaster.
I have discovered that not making excuses and arguing is extremely effective in getting out of a ticket. It won't always work, especially if you have a lot of tickets on your record, but it will work more often than not.
I even got out of a ticket for running a red light and coming *REALLY* close to crashing into a cop car. I was honestly really shocked when the cop said, "I'll let you go with a warning this time."
Nice blur effect, Kelsey! I've noticed that some commenters are getting way too distracted by the appearance of your hotel rooms... and this just looks generally more slick, even though because it's your blog, I was a little curious about the background.
Just a few days ago, I really lucked out. I’m a student pilot and I went on my ‘long’ cross-country solo. I depart out of a Class Delta airspace airport.
When I was coming back, I did my normal radio calls and I was told to enter a left base for Runway 31. Being super nervous about my XC, I wasn’t paying attention and lined up for runway 36.
I was about a mile away from touchdown when Tower said ‘Archer so and so, it appears you’re lined up for the wrong runway go around.’
I had a mini heart attack and requested to make a full stop. I had a feeling my flying career was over. I technically should have gotten a pilot deviation but the airport I’m at has a ton of flight schools operating out of it so I think Tower understood why I made such a dumb mistake.
Congrats on your solo cross country! Don't feel bad or get down on yourself, we've all been there.
Hugs Jellyfish!!! Breathe, let your heart slow down and get back up there!!!!
Another example of ATC telling you you've done something wrong without directly telling you you've done something wrong is when they remind you and then re-remind you about the altimeter setting when you busted your altitude. I always disguise my reply with "resetting altimeter" to cover my being off my assigned altitude and then reestablish the correct altitude.
I have checked crews that operate in the "information is power" mode and do not communicate changes to one another. I can guarantee the one withholding the information during a check-ride will fail.
Good one ... like the humour especially the last bit about making tinder profile ...
I understand and agree with the 'take responsibility and use this as a learning experience' angle, but maybe that should be true for the airline as well? Perhaps special procedures need to be in place for airplanes with captain only tillers? It seems like this handoff happening simultaneously with information/task heavy comms does not allow for sufficient verification of information.
I like this new layout thing, much better than staring off into distance while listening
At 1 million views, maybe time for the 2nd live stream? Or another meme video? Would be great!
Twerk video!
ATC and pilots working together, looking for the best outcome….what a concept!!!!!!
Funny story about the 'we need to talk' phrase:
When my wife and I were fairly early in our marriage, she sent me that exact text; while I was at work mind you (was in the US Marines at this point so telling the boss I need to dip because of domestic troubles was not really an option because most of our married folks were having some kind of domestic troubles) so I had to stew for over 6 hours only for me to get home panicked (probably did 20+ over the whole way home) asking what was going on and it was actually about some charge or something on the card that she wanted to discuss because it was somewhat big and she didn't recognize it. Turns out, she was blissfully unaware of the implications of the phrase 'we need to talk' and just sent it not even thinking about it, once I explained it to her, she realized that was a huge goof and that I was in panic mode for more than half my workday because of that text, she was super apologetic and promised to never send that for anything other than it's intended purpose from then on, which she has kept.
TL;DR: Wife didn't know what 'we need to talk' meant, sent it as a text about an unrecognized charge, stressed me out for over 6 hours about it because I couldn't leave work or call her about it.
The only reason you would panic is if you had cheated or stolen money. No Male would ever tell me what words I can use or not use. Pathetic.
@@Englandforever555 Wrong take. Wrong assumption. The “we need to talk” could come from something in her head exclusively. From “I don’t like the military life” to “I’m having an affair and I’m in love with this person” to, well anything.
@@Markle2k wrong, telling people what words they can or cannot use is controlling. If it was an emergency she would not have said we need to talk. So for him to get all anxious, tells me he's done something wrong.
@@Englandforever555 If you've never lived military life or understand how difficult it is not only for the servicemember but for the family around them, then you have absolutely zero frame of reference to speak from on this particular topic. Due to the excessively long periods we're unable to spend any time with our spouses, affairs tend to run rampant at home while we are out on deployment or running field exercises since the spouses are usually at home all day with nothing better to do, which was kinda what I had been worried about since we had just gotten done with a 3+ month field exercise where I was only able to talk to her even for a few minutes every couple days and I know that she was probably lonely during that time since it was far from the first time that I had heard that from her while I was away on deployment or field training exercises. Also, you assume that I made her make the promise to not use that phrase again, well, ya know what they say when you assume, she made the promise because she didn't want to stress me out again since we actually know how to communicate with each other and care how each other feel in the relationship, this was just an honest mistake in language from not ever experiencing the 'we need to talk' moment in any previous relationships as how they ended.
@@Englandforever555you're single
Awesome work as always, keep it up, God bless you.♥🙏
The vast majority of controllers don’t wish to write a PD. I speak from experience with this. Most of us ( I’m retired now) work on the principle “no harm, no foul”. It is management who sometimes stick their noses into these things. Many years ago on Thanksgiving day I was working one of the major inbound high altitude fixes to KORD in Chicago center. I had a single B757 inbound. At he appropriate time I gave I’m a pilots discretion descent to FL200. The pilot read it back correctly and asked if he could expect the normal pivot (intersection) at 10k and I responded he could expect that. When the pilot checked out of FL320 I switched him to the next freq. the controller sitting right next to me acknowledged his call on but didn’t give the crossing right away ( he also had no traffic). Shortly after I noticed the pilot had gone below FL200. I calmly said to the guy next to me that I think that guys is going to cross pivot @ 10. the other guy just looked at his radar and said to the pilot “ I see you are descending verify you are crossing pivot at 10, and KORD altimeter 29.72.
There happened to be an ops manager waiting his time behind us, he heard the last call and stuck his nose into it. We were good, but he insisted somebody pay, pulled us, pulled tapes, and violated the pilot.
At no time was ANYBODY in any danger, NO airspace was violated, but he felt SOMEBODY HAD TO PAY.
power trippers gonna power trip...
Love it, Sunday Kelsey vids😎
Question Kelsey; 10m24sec, did you mean Hotel Victor Quebec (not Kilo)? Just trying to understand.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
LOL! I caught that, too! Is that a possible vlogger violation? 😁
Love your vids, Kelsey! Thanks for keeping us informed and entertained.
No no, that was definitely Hotel Victor Qilo.
@@teh-maxh LOL, haha!
Excellently constructed video explanation of ATC & Pilots working together to mitigate risk. I still want a personal jetpack we were promised when growing up in the 1980's. VFR for short distances (Sub 100 Miles) only thank you.
In MS Flight Simulator I only fly the single engine prop planes and the annoyance factor has always been setting trim for level flight. The bug heading & altitude setting with AP does a good job but there's still a bit of bounce.
Is that normal in a typical aircraft when the trim isn't set properly or will it happen with changing weather conditions?
Regardless of the trim setting, small variations in altitude are caused by movement of the air you fly through. Also, if you change speed, you have to change trim. Set the weather to 'dead calm'(Can you? Not on MSFS.) and see what happens. In real life I carefully trim the aircraft before switching 'on' AP, and if it get's really bumpy, I hand-fly the aircraft.
I like how you explain these incidents. You do a good job.
"Pilots Violated After Making Wrong Turn" - kinda harsh.
The animation/flight sim footage is super helpful!
Based on the title, I thought the video would consist of a councilor holding a doll and asking the pilots to point out on the doll where the disciplinary board touched them.
Yeah I kinda got the same impression and I’m almost certain Kelsey did it as clickbait.
As a pilot when I was a young age….I really appreciate your knowledge. I feel great about getting my instrument rating, as a black woman and absolutely love hearing your knowledge. Raised a family of boys…one lost in Afghanistan. Though I don’t fly now…I keep up with all the changes since I was flying. Got my instructor rating….but needed to raise a family. Flight is still my love. Love listening to you. Thanks!
Right up there with 'whose bra is this'...
Kelsey this story reminds me so much of what is reported to be the reason Korean Air Lines flight 007 was off course that night. Somehow incorrect information was placed into the computer. The flight crew did not catch the problem.
Very unusual for me (37 year veteran ATCer) to issue a heading with the
Initial clearance on the ground . The local controller normally issues the heading with takeoff clearance in the 7 control towers where I worked. I would have issued this clearance in this order: “Cleared to O’Hare as filed, Maintain 5,000, Expect FL380 10 minutes after departure, Departure Frequency 126.9, Squaw 2403”. I believe the Clearance Delivery Controller used nonstandard phraseology which lead up to this error.
It’s in our SOP at KROA for clearance to issue the heading or SID.
I get headings all the time, but then I'm usually departing uncontrolled airfields.
I really enjoyed the towers CLEAR annunciation. I could understand every word he said, lol. NOW, tell me that departure said '160 at 6' after listening to that again...
Good morning Kelsey👋🏻 from Chicago, 😲hope this day finds you and yours♥️ well and prosperous🤑 brother!
KEEP THE BLUE SIDE UP 🛩🫡
So this is the, “It’s not me, it’s you,” version of the breakup.
3:01 Just out of curiousity, what aircraft was the pilot flying going to Alliance Airport?
As an air traffic controller, when working tower, I almost always remind pilots who aren’t local of the heading even if it’s in the clearance
I believe that's just a random flight plan from his company that he used to show an example of a flight plan route. My guess based on block time, filed altitude, and fuel reserve would be a B763.
This wasn’t quite what I’d expected, from the Thumbnail I assumed that the pilots were both Bummed good and hard once they got back on the ground !!!