Trying to switch from Soprano to Alto recorder!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- The book I used (Treble Recorder from the Beginning) is here: amzn.to/3gpUYL1
The alto recorder I played is a Yamaha Ecodear: amzn.to/3soBvja
(the above are Amazon affiliate links, if you choose to make a purchase through these links, I may earn a small commission. It helps to support the channel!)
The tenor recorder is my Mollenhauer Denner in boxwood, from The Early Music Shop: earlymusicshop.com/collection...
The bass recorder is my Thomann TRB-31B, here: www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_trb...
The music is 'C'est Une Dure Despartie' by Susato, this arrangement available in 'The Susato Collection Volume 1, 25 Dances for 4 recorders' edited by Larry Bernstein, published by Dolce.
Not long after I first started learning to play the soprano recorder I got myself an alto too. I never felt as comfortable playing it as I did my soprano. I just hadn't done enough to learn the fingerings properly!
To try to fix this, I stopped playing my alto, sopranino and bass (all my 'F' recorders) for five months, and then started again to try to learn from scratch, this time using a method book... but did it work?
I made this video because I've had a lot of comments and questions from folks who want to try learning alto alongside their soprano, but are unsure about the process. As a beginner myself, I don't feel qualified to give the answers, but hopefully showing my approach might help the process seem a bit less daunting... and it really isn't scary! So if you are on the fence about picking up an 'F' recorder as well as your 'C' recorder, then I say grab yourself a good beginners book and off you go! :)
Find me on Instagram: @claythorpemusic - เพลง
Hi Lauren...you are amazing to be able to do this after just a few days. It sounded very musical to me! I hope all is well as you've not posted for a while....hope its just because you are so busy playing in the real world.🙂 Take care and best wishes...I have really enjoyed your videos, your realism and your sense of humour and they are a real inspiration. xxx
Hey Lauren, as a French-spreaking linguist I had never heard of 'despartie' before today. I did some research on Google and found a hint through the Latin and Romanian languages: It's old French for 'separation/break-up/rupture'.
So I guess this song is all about 'A Hard Break-up' or 'A Hard Goodbye'... Hence the gloomy melody.
Cute accent by the way. Keep up the good work on the alto recorder! 🎶
Well, I am a spanish speaker... but I guess "despartie" (the s is silent) has to be related to "departure" in English...
As someone whose just started the recorder thank you for this, and other videos like it.
I just play the alto the same as the soprano. I dont play baroque or renaissance so I just play what I want on my own.
Yep, why not 🙂
Very helpful and entertaining. An adult beginner myself so it floats my boat indeed! Great accent... Honest, fun and inspiring! Quartet was very impressive! Thank you!
Nice song at the end! thanks
I'm enjoying your videos. My ten year-old daughter and I started learning the recorder together in March of 2020. Like you, we are self-taught. A couple of months ago, we added Alto, and Tenor instruments to our study. My daughter found the finger spread on the Aulos Tenor to be a bit too much, so, she ended up with the job of learning new fingerings. We are currently working on Telemann Fantasies. It is a great thing for Dad and daughter to do together. We are really having fun.
Wow it sounds like you’re both making great progress! Must be lovely to have someone to learn with, what a great thing for you to be able to do. Happy practicing to you both!
Nicely done
I have autism and I love music and I just picked up my first alto recorder :) I have a kalimba and a piano and guitar but I love love love the sound of a nice alto. Someday I really wish to get a tenor but I will have to save for a while :) much love my friend. Your video is so great. I hope you’re doing well. I subscribed to your channel :) also I love the little squirrel running up the fence at 5:27 ahaha. Well anyways, thank you for making this amazing video for all of us on TH-cam.
Loved your ensemble. Harmonies sounded nice
I bought the soprano first and did not like the shrill sound it'd produce especially when leaking so then I bought the alto. I'd barely learnt a couple of notes on the soprano, so I was as good as a new student on the alto. I loved the sound of the alto. The stretch required was immediately noticeable.
Books that are REALLY REALLY good for the alto recorder are Walter Van Hauwe's and Gudrun Heyens series. Both go into extensive detail on refining your technique. Don't miss out on those classical books if you wanna develop the proper technique.
The point of this comment was and I forgot about it by the end, that I'm gonna have the reverse issue when going to the soprano, but I don't feel like I'd do that for a while now. I just love the alto so much.
@@luckybarrel7829 the Walter van Hauwe books have been recommended to me quite a lot, I really should check them out!
If you’re happy with the alto then there’s no point forcing yourself into soprano for the sake of it- one day you might just feel like giving the soprano another go. I think my ears have got accustomed to the higher soprano by now 😂
the Walter van Hauwe books have been recommended to me quite a lot, I really should check them out!
If you’re happy with the alto then there’s no point forcing yourself into soprano for the sake of it- one day you might just feel like giving the soprano another go. I think my ears have got accustomed to the higher soprano by now 😂
@@ClaythorpeMusic See eventually I wanna acquire that taste
I bought the book from your link. Thanks. I actually had trouble finding a book for the alto so I appreciate it.
Hey just wanted to let you know that
1. Love your videos, they’re loads of fun
2. Woow, you’re a fast learner!!!
3. C’est une dure despartie is (a bit outdatedj French for: “this is a hard (tough) GOODBYE 👋 “
Keep up the musical fun.
Cheers!
Thank you! And thanks for the translation! I’ve been learning French for a few months but haven’t come across ‘dure despartie’ before now- but now I know 🙂
Wonderful! I learned soprano then tenor and am now working on alto. I use sweet pipes books and enjoy them. This was interesting! Thanks!
Lovely music you made, thank you. The sound of the 4 recorders was far more pleasing, to me, than the sound of just one.
I love this video. You are so funny and entertaining. I love the part where play the 4 different recorders. Brilliant idea.
Thanks! The Alto book idea is good. I didn’t think of that. 😎🌞
Amazing
Best teacher Claytrope Bravo ! 👏👏👏🙏
thank you, my new treble arrived today. I could remember a few bits and pieces, but to be honest its 30 years since i last played at primary school. I've ordered the book and hope to be able to relink sheet music to finger placement and jog a long some old memory systems and play again.
What a fantastic video ❤
I've been playing an alto in the same way as a soprano, and now I have a piece that uses both, so I'm going to learn it properly now. 😂
I see this video is a year or so old but I came across your videos only recently. Very interesting for me to watch, as a fellow "for fun only" amateur musician who also can't resist trying new instruments. FYI now you've learnt both the C soprano and the F (treble?) recorder you'd be well placed to have a crack at the clarinet which has three 'registers', the lower one has fingerings very much like the F recorder and the middle register has fingerings like the C recorder. I saw a reasonable "student quality" clarinet in my local charity shop for about £30 and couldn't resist buying and trying it and was pleased to find my old recorder fingerings gave me a head start. Now there's an idea for a future video for you! ;) Thanks for posting your musical instrument videos!
It soubds so beautiful and christmassy.
Love your blouse! The Sasato (Hard Departure) was really awesome! I don’t understand you’re playing an alto using a treble book! Thanks for your help!🙏🙏🙏
Alto IS treble.
I really enjoyed watching this. Too have just got the same book and am working my way through. There are some fun pieces in the book, so far I especially like the Cossack Dance. I have purposely not been playing trying anything else to get my head around the fingering. So far B is a challenge. I can see why they left it a little way into the book.
I learnt the fingerings on the alto just by improvising on chord progressions - Only thing, I had to remember it was like playing one fifth apart (i.e.: in C major, I should use the fingerings I'd used to play in G major on a soprano or tenor), but that worked for me. No two brains are alike, thus it might not work as well for other people, but if someone would like to try this method, I very readily share this experience for everyone else to try.
The quartet is impressive. Sounds good.
You're Chanel is 😎 mam. ')!!! I'm still a beginner on soprano recorder. I'm abit scared to try the Alto I'm not that comfortable yet and quiet nervous about it
She really has great potential I'm sure if
she keeps up her playing no doubt she
will become quite proficient
I wish I had known about those books with CDs. The ones I bought had been recommended, but didn't have CDs. Professional musicians who recommend books to beginners (who are also just learning to read music) don't realize how valuable the CDs are because they can sight read and know what the tune is supposed to sound like. I didn't. I could see the beats, but I didn't know what it was really supposed to sound like, which was frustrating. - When I first started the alto/treble recorder, I put away my soprano. I had no confidence that I could learn both C and F fingerings. Eventually, I did take the soprano out again. I found that I had some magical muscle memory for the different fingerings after all. I think it's due to the difference in size. If the soprano and alto recorders were the same size, I would be lost for sure.
Yes! CDs can make all the difference! Can really help everything click together in your head. I know some people see it as cheating, but all part of ear training, I reckon 🙂
First time I've noticed your channel.
Thanks for this.
I am also new to Treble recorder, and hadn't played Soprano recorder since primary school. But have played oboe for several decades now. Oboe fingering is very similar to Soprano recorder: in C with a 'natural scale' of Dmaj.
(Also bassoon for a few years now.)
Before starting Treble recorder I got confused about how the transposition happens, thinking it might have been more complex, and was relieved to find how simple it actually is: play the notes as written on the stave. I'd thought it might be like eg a b-flat clarinet...
Then I restarted on Soprano, finding the fingering a little cramped, to be honest. Occasionally I confuse the fingerings, but as I'm listening as well as playing I don't do too badly.
Next I realised a childhood dream & started on Cor Anglais❤🎶.
Cor is also in F, but the parts are written transposed, exactly equivalent to oboe parts, except (obvs) that the notes are a fifth lower. I suppose it should be easy for me to put a Treble recorder "head" on and transcribe as I play Cor the way we play on Treble but I haven't dared yet.
I notice the C-F finger stretch more on recorders than on Oboe/Cor... perhaps because there are keys to guide my fingers.
Just to add that I too followed the Recorder from the Beginning book - love its simple effective approach, and have been teaching my wife soprano recorder using the soprano version.
You wondered why it might go out of print... musically there's no way it's going to become out of date, but some of the songs have words that these days make us cringe, e.g. "Indian" not Native American/first nation...
Well done! 👏 👏
P.S. I absolutely love your outfit!
Thank you 😊
I, as you, would not be able to tell, how I make the change from playing the differnt tuned recorders. I just do it "at the . flight". I am 62 years old now. I have played soprano recordeer since I became 17 yerars. Few years after the start I bought an alto recorder and started playing on that. Easy was it. The fingering is the same, if the different does not bother the mind. I almost immediately had the thrill of changing between the recorder types without thinking too much. I usually play by ear. The fingers find their ways. It is amazing, which difference some years of experience can make.
👏👏 Well played. I started my self learning on the alto using the same book as a starting point. Then bought a yamaha plastic tenor. And went onto learning that. I'm now eagerly awaiting delivery of a mollenhauer canta tenor in pearwood. I find I go through phases of being in tenor mode then alto for a few weeks each time. Swapping from c to f instruments every few days my brain can't cope with. Plus teaching myself bass guitar in between! Next on the shopping list a bass recorder! #selftaughtmusicnutcantstopshopping
Ah I’m some late replying to your comment that I guess you have your Canta by now? Hope you love it!
love your video and playing :) I just got a recording some days ago, my first, and had no clue so I ordered an alto. (because I play alto sax...) pfff that's not easy! I only get squeaks out of it haha... great advise on the book, I just ordered it, maybe that helps :)
I’ve heard alto sax is very tricky! I think I’d better stick to recorders… hope you enjoy yours, and the book!
Cool.
I started on the Alto:-)
cool video shows a lot bigger. more of these
I want to share my experience. I am an autodidact recorder. And yes, I cannot read music. I play by ears. I started with Soprano, as most recorder players, I believe. Though Soprano is a C recorder, I am most comfortable playing in F scale. The fingering is easy, too. That's why it feels very natural when I switch to Alto. And I have long fingers which make it easy for the longer reach.
I have recently retired and have just bought an alto recorder
mostly as I find soprano recorders too cramped
(like keyboards on computers - for my pudgy fingers I need a decent sized keyboard)
so I am taking up where I left off at primary school
My actual plan is to learn the cornett / cornetto / Zink
a renaissance and baroque instrument
which is a tuned horn
so it has fingerings like a recorder
but is sounded like a trumpet
(I was a trumpet player in secondary school)
But I thought I needed to get used to fingerings first.
It is so beautiful how you play. I am a very old beginner recorder player I find your viedeos so inspiering and helpful. How do you do the playing with yourself part? Is there a special program for this? Now I embarassed myself on you tube, oh well
Thanks for the kind words! I use an app called Acapella to be able to film and play duets etc, it’s quite easy to use but has limitations. The sound recording isn’t the best, so most of the time I record everything separately and then have to sync it all up in iMovie. Acapella is a lot of fun though 🙂
I had no problem at all. I was able to immediately segue to the alto recorder from the soprano recorder. And why not? They both play in the treble clef and share the same fingering chart. 👍 😊 ♫
They (alto, soprano) have different fingerings?
@@Musicch-gi8ej The fingerings are the same, but you get different notes. For example, when you cover all the wholes in your soprano you get a C5 but on the alto you get F4.
I am curious how long it took your hands to get used to stretching to the holes on the alto from the soprano.
Hi! I bought a book by Aldo Bova: "24 easy pieces for alto recorder". The pieces are lovely and you can found them played by the author. imo, the best way to switch from one fingering to the other...
I don't have big hands and have problem with the F and G hole. Sometimes I can't hit on them accurately leading to squeaky sound.
most fingering on the alto are the same for the descant ie G on the descant is C ON THE alto ? bearing in mind that the descant sounds a octave higher
I somehow thought myself how to transpose from C-Recorders to F-Recorders in such an odd way
I basically make a table like this:
C'=F'
B=E
A=D
G=C
F=B
E=A
D=G
C=F
Then, I just memorise them by playing "hot cross buns" in E-D-C on the soprano recorder and A-G-F on the alto....
~After that, I'll switch from E-D-C to A-G-F on the soprano and vice versa on the alto....
(Since _E-D-C on the alto_ have similar fingerings to _B-A-G on the soprano,_ it kinda helps me to imagine E-D-C as B-A-G)
This method is kinda weird but it works for me. This might not work for some people though😅
Wonderful channel! (me elderly guy, beginner in recorders) Do you know the books of Aldo Bova? I follow also his channel, and enjoy it a lot.
Hi Eli I have the book of Aldos "The Alto recorder A comprehensive new method". At the time I bought it he hadn't many videos of the pieces up on youtube but since then there are many more. It's a lot easier and better I think if you can hear how the pieces are meant to sound, good feedback to the learning process. I love Aldos' recodings with Hiro Watanabe. . . so wonderful
@@Jim-iw1yd thank you, I agree that it is nice to hear him play the music!
@@elijaguy I am also a huge fan of Aldo Bova‘s books - and especially of his didacticism! For me one of the quickest ways to progress.
I starter soprano 2 years ago but found it to small for my big mechanic's hands so I switched to alto and loved the size and tone but didn't love the lack of popular music written in "F". Classics are all well and good but how about The Beatles or some Broadway show tunes? John Denver? Billy Joel? Jigs, reels, hornpipes? NOPE. Not in "F" that I could find. Lacking the ability to transpose (whatever THAT is) I switched to tenor and found a home. I used the "Sweet Pipes" beginner books which look like the same thing only different to the Pitts books. I agree with your technique. I started at the beginning and worked my way through from simple to complex until the light came on in my head and I said "OH! I can read that!" . I just started a ZOOM recorder class so it's only UP UP UP from here. I just found an Irish drinking song called "Mush Mush Mush Too-Ri-Li-Ady" from the movie "The Quiet Man" So much fun to play!
Anyway I love your channel. Looking forward to more good stuff!
correct me if I am wrong but the lowest note on the alto is F ,the recorder itself is not a transposing instrument just that the lowest note you can play on it is F .I find i can play most music on the alto and if the music has middle C then I just use descant fingering and use the alto as a soprano ????????
SUPER EASY TRANSPOSITION
I'll drop any real discussion. It's not hard, really, but this is EZ Transpo:
* Pick up alto (or sopranino).
* Pick up score.
* Play the lowest note (F4, the F above middle C on alto; F5 on s the 'nino).
>>> "I dub thee middle C." Now play the score in a fingering with which you're comfortable.
Yes, it's that simple. Just take your score, take the alto, and treat the low F as a C.
Tres facile, non? Bonne chance!
@@JESL_TheOnlyOne
correcto mi amigo
any tips for playing low C and C sharp on alto and tenor ,been practicing for 2 years and still can not get it right
@@peter3835 I've had a tenor for over a year, one with the keys for C4/C#4. Still working on technique. YT vids and books from Reverb, Amazon...?
Alto isn't keyed, thus easier; for me at least. In general, study technique. I'm a bug about technique, because you have to be able to repeat and reproduce, instantaneously and correctly, on the spot. This is a sine qua non, in my humble opinion.
Basically, I'm a guitarist who can play recorder, harmonica and couple of other things. I taught myself theory and have played in bands and I've been with some good people. I've got a good ear and sense of rhythm.
"85% of playing by ear is knowing your damn theory."
Absolutely. I'm a true player on guitar because I know what's what. *Don't neglect harmony if you study recorder, even though it's not a chording instrument.* Western music IS harmony, it invented it.
Study and practice. Study and practice. Straight ahead.
@@JESL_TheOnlyOne
Thanks for the advice .I am 72 years old in two days and only had a interest in music for the last two years, never played any instrument before . I am retired in Spain now so to fill my time I decided to learn the recorder and (after 4 visits by the local police ) alto and tenor now i have progressed onto the clarinet big mistake but getting there and I have found most people laugh at the recorder but to play correctly it is very demanding anyway thanks for the advice .
Can't get this book in Canada
Not sure if anyone can help, but I'll ask ... the pieces of my Yamaha (YRA-28B) alto get STUCK and almost seem to FUSE. It's SO difficult to adjust or take apart for cleaning, etc. I've used the lubrication that came with the recorder, I've cleaned it, re-lubricated, but STILL the pieces get stuck. Any tips on how to "loosen" the "grip"? Thanks for any advice.
Wear rubber gloves. I got some "sticky" gardening gloves with fabric backs and keep them beside the recorder.
I do the change in 1second but i think it's because i started 35 years ago to play 😅
Hi remember im an ancient beginner and play by ear so alto is only a note down to me from the soprano
I think we all have our own little ways of thinking about things- whatever helps!
I can't decide between a Yamaha alto and a Aulos alto. Does anyone have any tips?
I prefer Yamahas personally but both makes are good.
I know your comment was a year ago but today I just watched a lady doing a very comprehensive comparison. I'll get you the link.
Today, I just started to learn the alto recorder and I can't produce a decent sound 😢
Don’t worry, you only just started! Tone and sound is something that gets better with time, so keep at it and one day not being able to make a decent sound will be a distant memory! Just have fun playing! 👍
The small recorder soprano still the best sound
I have a 211 Recorder on the back thumb hole it say's B is this the key it's it didn't come with the case that the key name on it thanks , Cheers From Canada -Sunny Rhoades and you are Gorgeous and a beautiful Soul im in Love haha.
AGH! The Yamaha Ecodear alto recorder is out of stock! Nooooooooooooooooo!
Is there any real call here for a short exposition on transposition, not just for our lovely hostess, but others?
I can amplify, but here's the simple way.
EASY PEASY TRANSPOSITION
* Treat the low F on the alto or the 'nino as a C.
BOOM SHAKA LAKA BOOM SHAKA LAKA
Yup, that's pretty much it. Just pick up the stick, pick up the score, and treat F4 or F5 as C4 (middle C). Fingering remains constant.
*****
I can elucidate, but that's the essence of it. Don't get hung up on physical frequencies. As a guitarist, you run into this right away: the fingering for middle C (5th string, 3rd fret) is actually an octave below true C4 (2nd string, 1st fret), but we call it middle C on the score [life is much easier, trust me].
Oh, naturally, something written for alto or sopranino is played 'straight', as-is.
I am a 74 year old retired piano teacher. I had played the soprano recorder briefly when I was about 18 and then it spent over 50 years in my piano bench. As it was wooden, I think it had become warped with age and was difficult to tune on the lower notes. After resurrecting it and practicing for over a year, I decided to buy an alto and a tenor recorder. The tenor was a little hard on my hands so I've been concentrating on the alto. I cannot get my head around the alto notation and have therefore become quite good at transposing down the required 4th at sight. I have also played the Bb clarinet and had no trouble as the music was transposed for the player. I wish the same gift were offered to players of transposing recorders.
@@wilmamacmillan6155 Well, your knowledge base is a hell of a lot broader than mine. All I can say is that if the score doesn't go below F4, you can complete that straight on alto or 'nino. Again, myself, I'm eschewing the transposition & just treating those two recorders as 'Cs', IF I have a score with middle C, so to speak.
Naturally, this is all solo, in company I couldn't be lazy. Also, I'm essentially a guitarist who can play some other things and mess around with keys, and I have a good grasp of theory and can read reasonably well, though not proficiently.
I work on technique a lot with recorder, so I just avoid the transpositions, really. Recorder is a lot of fun, it's excellent for what I call melodic memory.
@@wilmamacmillan6155 - I'm totally confused about transposition for the alto -- it seems completely unnecessary.
Is music for the alto recorder actually written as transposed (i.e. a 5th higher) ? So that when you want to play a C on the alto, write a G and then use the soprano fingering for G (LH thumb and all 3 fingers) on the alto to sound the C. Is that correct? That seems unnecessary when you could just write the C as a C and use the required alto fingering to play ithe C (LH thumb and all 3 fingers).
I would want to be able to read and play any music (hymns for example) on the alto reading straight from the page (untransposed).
Nobody writes comments about squirrel, so I will be the first: 5:27 🐿
Squirrel? not seeing it?
@@cathytai Look in the window
Yamaha Ecodear is not that good alto. I regretted purchasing mine _(kinda dull and plasticky, unrefined sound)_
Yamaha YRA-314B III is MUCH better choice
The highly contentious and much maligned Ecodear. Might there be a hack to improve the tone? Some cheap recorders , apparently the mouthpiece can come off and pulling it a bit farther out can give a reedier or more husky sound?
Probably more of a gimmick to keep all the must-save-the-planet-environmentalists happy, plastic bad, wood good brigade. A good wood is very expensive and over budget for many. Yamaha on their website talk about their plastics being non-toxic, pthalate-free etc.