Why I don't memorize Japanese words+Mar Report
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Why I avoid traditional ways to learn vocabulary? Check this video and find out, with my March Japanese learning report.
00:00 intro [ENG]
01:30 MAR report[JAN with English subtitles]
06:04 Why I decided not to memorize words anymore when starting Japanese [ENG]
👀Know more about my channel:
🎉 Welcome to my Japanese Challenge, and be my judge!
Can I reach my goal by the end of 2024?
🎯 I aim to meet the requirements of JLPT N2 or above by December 2024. For writing and speaking, which are not included in the N2 capability descriptions, I want to engage in deep conversations on various topics at a natural speed with native speakers.
Please subscribe to my channel to track my progress. If there's any topic you want me to discuss in Japanese, please leave your comments! ❥(^_-)
Hi, I've just discovered your channel and I really like it.
I'm Brazilian and I'm trying to learn English and Japanese on my own.
Thank you for sharing your experiences in learning languages.
Thanks for your kind words. It's great to hear you enjoy it. Good luck with learning both English and Japanese-you're doing amazing!
Thank you for this! I’ve been actively avoiding flash cards and I think I’m doing ok, month 3 of learning. The genki book definitely is leveling me up so that I can understand dramas more, and each day I pick up more. More important like you said, the more I’m exposed to the word, the more it gets internalized. I have my first italki session tonight, wish me luck!
Wow so happy to know someone feel the same way. Your drive is really strong. You can make it, enjoy!😊
The italki went so well! My teacher was so kind, he was patient and listened, didn’t overcorrect. I made so many mistakes but I’m so glad I went for it. He freaked out that I’ve only been studying for 3 months based on how I was speaking (poorly I think but he was so nice!), but I think it’s following your strategy of active immersion, seeking out native sources, intonation, how native speakers use the language, that really help. Interestingly I had more trouble understanding than speaking. Looking forward to more tips from you!
@@shakenbacon-vm4eu I'm so happy for you!!! I believe you will soon understand better and enjoy it more. Let's share learning tips to each other. Great to get your reply!🤩
I have came to the same sort of realization as you have when it comes to learning vocabulary. For a while, I was studying Korean and my teacher was very into review quizzes for vocabulary at the beginning of each lesson. I would just memorize it flashcard-style and mostly get them right, but later on in the lesson, he would ask some simple questions at native speed and it took me a second to repeat the word I didn't understand and realize "oh, I should know what this is because I memorized it.." Later he would mix English -> Korean and Korean -> English translations so it helped a bit. But I fell off in my Korean studies in favor of studying Japanese since I had way more passive exposure to Japanese through anime and music. There's something about how seeing people interact and speak that leaves a deeper impression for certain words. Sometimes it can be very effortless, but depending on people's level, there are still many things you should try to memorize because they are not too reliant on context. Things like places, body parts, food, sports, music. I assume you must know a lot of those things already, but I find it easy for me to get a little lazy with studying those or more boring things that are still necessary for everyday communication.
Also I'm a native english speaker, but even I can remember when we would learn more advanced words starting in middle school or high school. Nowadays, I could read a lot of those words and either know or have a good guess at what they mean, but I would (almost) never use them in real life. I think that's sort of a "problem" that happens at an intermediate to advanced level for foreign language learners as well but it is in fact very normal for natives as well.
Thank you for sharing your experience! It's really insightful to hear how you've navigated learning vocabulary in both Korean and Japanese.
Regarding your point about "there are still many things you should try to memorize because they are not too reliant on context. Things like places, body parts, food, sports, music," I have had similar experiences. For example, when eating yakitori, I often remember the various parts of the chicken that I frequently order. But for those I don't order often, I just don't bother with them. If someday those words come up more frequently, I'm sure I'll remember them, haha.
Good luck with your Japanese studies! Keep up the great work, and thank you again for your thoughtful comment.
Flashcards can be a chore, that's true, but I found that once you get past the very common vocabulary which you encounter all the time in your input it becomes increasingly harder to learn new words because they don't repeat enough. This is where Anki becomes a big help because it schedules the cards just enough times for you to remember the word. It is also true that words learned in isolation probably don't stick very well, but then you can just keep reinforcing them via input. You can also practice right away the words you learn in Anki in your speaking or composition practice if you want to integrate them into your usable vocabulary. I see the different activities as complementary rather than being at odds with each other.
There's nothing wrong with flashcards; it's just that I can't stick with them myself, so I choose not to use them. I don't mean to disparage this learning method, nor am I suggesting that others shouldn't use it. On the contrary, I believe that everyone has a method that suits them best.☺️
I think the contrary: flashcards are convenient at the beginning of the learning, when we are learning our first hundreds of words, but beyond, it loses completely its benefits because there are way too many words. And the time I use to create flashcards and study them, it is the time of other activities (e.g. listening or reading) I lose.
@@Rudolphhhhhh I spend around half an hour daily on card creation + reviewing and manage to add 10 new words a day, I think it's not a bad time investment (it adds be 3,650 words a year), and there's still plenty of time left for other learning activities. And card creation is not a complete waste of time because you look up word definitions and try to understand example sentences, which contributes to learning.
@@Fafner888 I think 30 minutes a day is way too much, it's a chore. 5 minutes a day (or 10 minutes at the most) is acceptable. The days I can't learn Japanese more than one hour, I can't accept the idea of using half of my learning time in apps. I prefer choosing by myself when and how I review vocabulary, especially by self-interrogating, instead of being prisoner of an algorithm.
I can understand the benefits of creating flashcards, but I prefer handwriting short sentences based on what I've read or heard (I am sensitive to "memory of the hand"), on a notepad that fits in my pocket. I think this is more convenient to me.
In fact, I already gave Anki a try, for one year. But this is not for me. Actually, I forgot all of those words I had being reviewing but never encountered by reading or listening. And I can memorise very well words I use, hear or read without even creating flashcards.
Your Japanese sounds really nice! Since you're a native Chinese speaker I think you could skip N2 and go straight to N1. It has more kanji so it would actually be easier from what I hear. I like Anki for difficult languages which for me include Japanese and Korean which I'm studying (and Chinese if I get to it later maybe). I studied German/French/Spanish way back and couldn't stand flash cards. Just reading and listening seemed so much more effective. But I think it sticks more easily because they're closer to English and it seems like I need the brute force of flash cards for harder languages. But you're right about the uphill marathon. It's like you're constantly forcing the vocabulary into your short term memory over and over with the hope that it will transfer to long term memory. But it's not so efficient. However, immersing in super difficult languages doesn't feel so efficient to me either. Basically there isn't a good answer for hard languages. I think you need to do immersion, rote, and fine someone to talk to so basically attack the language in every way possible.
Thanks for your suggestion! I totally agree with you on "not immersing in super hard materials". It could ruin our passion. I prefer to read/listen to/shadow materials that we're interested in and are just a little bit above our current level. So, I use LingQ to automatically match resources for me. I want to maintain the curiosity and enjoyment of learning the language🎉
Wow, your Japanese is awesome. You're talented
Great advice ❤
I'm impressed you can speak it so well. I've been studying Japanese for two years now, and while I can comfortably read hiragana/katakana and some basic kanji, my ability to string sentences together is nonexistent. It was the same when I studied Greek, and I did actual evening classes for that - three full terms of it.
I'm committed to actually pushing through the mental barrier this time though, the penny will drop eventually I'm sure... 😄
Thank you so much! 😊 It sounds like you're making great progress with your Japanese studies. I totally understand the struggle with forming sentences; it can be really challenging. It's great to hear that you're committed to pushing through the mental barrier. Keep at it, and I'm sure everything will start to click soon. You've got this! 💪
Thank you Yuru, it's a great idea!
I myself am a novice at Japanese and coming to Japan next week for the first time, and my approach is also based on patterns and phrases that stuck with me from conversations on youtube and manga!
That's fantastic! Wishing you an amazing trip to Japan. It's incredible how much we can learn from everyday interactions like TH-cam and manga. Enjoy your journey! 🇯🇵✨
I love LingQ! At first, I was super skeptical. I thought, there was no way to memorize words just by reading them frequently. (Granted, LingQ gives you the option for flashcards.) But Honestly, I was impressed with MYSELF after reading a few stories around my n5-n4 level, I was naturally gaining vocabulary without needing to use the flashcard/vocab review provided OR Anki.
And let me tell you, I've tried Anki and all those similar 'methods' but it's so unnatural, as I've come to realize. Gaining a new language is learning to just be with it, not 'study' it.
Thank you for making this video! It's given me confidence in my method of not using root memorization, as so many other creators push especially with Anki.
Me too! I really appreciate LingQ's use of different color blocks to indicate how familiar I am with each word. It's great to know you feel the same way! I hope we can both continue to enjoy our learning journey.♥️
Brilliant! Interactive learning. Your English is very good... little accent. Keep it up.
Congrats on studying this beautiful language, I think you already have great skills.
I'm just beginning on studing japanese and decided to take the JLPT N5, but still struggling with grammar rules, but hope to reach a level like you!
You can definitely make it. Enjoy your Japanese learning! 😊
Your accent is excellent, and your knowledge of the words and how you put them together so quickly, is amazing. I have also been learning Japanese for 2 years or a little more, but I know nothing compared to you. I need to learn so much more, especially the tone, besides just making a sentence with proper particles.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm really glad you enjoyed the video. It's fantastic that you've been learning Japanese for over two years - that's a great achievement! Don't worry too much about comparing yourself to others; everyone learns at their own pace.
Focusing on tone and proper particle usage is definitely important, and it sounds like you're on the right track. Best of luck with your studies!
Great video. I started learning basic Mandarin but found it too complicated so I started Japanese I sadly gave up due to work, now I'm started Korean which is probably difficult.
I use the memory palace technique to learn vocabulary. It works very well if you use it correctly.
Thank you for your great videos. I think it's important for people to hear you can't just work harder or longer and expect good results. Many things are both hard and a waste of time. Some things are easy and valuable.
素敵な動画をありがとうございます。苦労とか長い時間を掛かりとかで良い結果が決す訳ではない。簡単の方法が一番方法、可能性があると思います。
As for me, I think the hardest thing is having good mental energy and reasons to use the language socially. And it is a barrier to come from a stress based language where pitch is unimportant, but mainly it affects me when I'm tired not when I have good energy (rare).
Good luck! I hope you have a lot of fun improving your Japanese.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment! I'm glad you mentioned how some things are easy and valuable-that's such an important insight.
Good luck to you as well! I hope you continue to have fun and success in your language learning journey.
I'm self-studying, in a non-conventional (non-JLPT) method I'm working on for myself. I'm trying the best i can with so little material to study, mostly because I'm trying to find these resources for free. Though that's a caveat, I still have plenty or practice resources.
In my experience with hiragana and katakana, it seemed intimidating in itself, but mnemonics help greatly. It became the easiest thing to do.
If you're out in the wild, it can be difficult with certain fonts used. Either you have to rely on your vocabulary knowledge, or you observe stroke configurations to deduce the kana.
If you're in study or practice learning each individual kana and reading them together, it would help to use resources that use fonts that show brush strokes. You don't need to know the stroke order necessarily, but knowing the difference is key (like the way mnemonics serve). In the case for the difficult pairs in their own (シ/ツ and ソ/ン), knowing the stroke directions make all the difference even if you cannot tell the subtle height difference at a glance, apart from the vocabulary deduction method. There is a logic to it. I found that the stroke direction mirrors the direction of their hiragana counterpart - so knowing hiragana strokes would be a big boost to your literacy ability.
I'm at a slower pace now, because kanji is so much worse. Being quizzed on their own, telling the difference between the two readings, and - to throw me off - finding out some vocabulary use kanji that isn't usually noted in kanji dictionaries, is a huge learning curve! I've barely started with grammar, as that is another weakness of mine currently as far as organization is concerned. The JLPT route isn't all that equal either. I'm just doing my best. Baby steps. I do find out some nifty tidbits here and there. Haven't put it to real practice yet. All I have going for me is spaced repetition, and very little mnemonics developed (again, my own limitations). Maybe one day I'll have to draft a manuscript for that. For now, I have time.
I'm really thankful you did this channel. I'll still do Anki for some time, but I really think it is not working that much, it is really not as efficient as I once believed it would be. But I think it will give me a really good foundation, I'm getting to a point where I can recognize most kanji and know almost all grammar, but my vocabulary is still very basic, somewhere between N4 and N3 and I can't speak anything at all. But I still veer off to your approach as soon as possible, I just want to finish Kanji and core vocab and my grammar decks, but I won't go that further past, just really to finish the foundation and also because I don't want to give up right at the middle of it.
Thank you so much for your kind words! 😊 I'm really glad to hear that you find the channel helpful. Laying a solid foundation is indeed very important, and it sounds like you're making great progress with your kanji, grammar, and vocabulary. Keep your own pace and you will definitely make it. Enjoy!
Truth, its makes me more easily memorizing words its naturally will remembering kotoba.
Wow i started studying japanese 4 months ago and i have good days i have Bad day but i keep trying!! Thanks You for your advance!!!!😊
Thanks for your comment ♥️ You will definitely find your way and enjoy the journey!
I have learned japanese through Immersive translate. Immersive translate has been both helpful for me since I could learn the foreign language and moreover, I would use it to generate subtitles for movies in foreign language and it would also help me in mastery of the language
Hey there! I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on what you mean by "Immersive translation"? I'd love to get a better grasp of it. Thanks!
As an avid user of LingQ and three years of learning Japanese, I don't think that the vocab/flashcard function should be completely thrown out. If your brain hates it, then don't force it. However, if your app lets you store and memorize full phrases like LingQ does, then that may be a little more useful, since it has context. For example ”潰す” (crush/kill) has no real footing 'cause it's not really doing something. BUT, ”時間を潰す” (to kill time) does because the verb and the noun are doing something together. If a verb is doing something to noun, then you're in the right ballpark.
Great video though, my Japanese teacher points out a lot of the flaws I make in speaking because I've previously learned Japanese by memorizing A LOT of isolated words without context (it really shows when I speak).
I hav heen using anki for so long i cannot fathom not using it for vocabulary. I think its tedious to memorize vocabulary but the whole looking up words and moving on doesnt sit well with me. I just have to add them to anki.
comparing 20 years learning English and just one and a half year learning Japanese it's amazing! I think you are really get a lot of lessons from your experience wiht secong lenguege. and also I think it's maybe Japenese culture and language in general a bit closer to you then to the English speaking world... I think it's also more or less matters. it's really interesting to see your experience.
I'm a Russian native speaker and I learn English. I think I'm about B1-B2 level. I'm not fluent in it yet and I think fluency is my next goal but I prefer to learn it not from textbooks or classes but from watching and reading, through consuming interesting stuff.
Also Steve Kaufman was inspired me the most in my language learning journey.
Anyway, now I'm quite comfortable with English and I started to learn Japanese too.
it's about 1 year but I'm far from even understanding basic things in Japanese. I can get some thins in Japanese but i won't able to pass n5 in a nearly future.
Hi! Thank you so much for your comment. I totally agree with you-learning Japanese has been an incredible journey, especially when I compare it to my long experience with English. It’s fascinating how cultural and language proximity can make a difference. It’s great to hear about your language learning journey too! Consuming interesting content is such a fun and effective way to learn. Steve Kaufman is definitely an inspiration! Don’t worry about your progress in Japanese-keep going, and you’ll get there. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and best of luck with your studies! 😊
@@YURU-EWT thank you so much for your kind words
I like practicing sentences, not necessarily memorizing, but revisit a children's book. There's apps full of Japanese kid books. It helps me to encounter words in simple stories a lot!
Great approach！
Omg... This video came just in time. Im currently at an intermediate wall in japanese, where i feel like im not really seeing a lot of the words im learning as often as i used to, and its making it hard. Im going to try this method! I'm curious, im starting to find things im really excited about in Japanese, especially books, but a lot of them are so difficult! I was wondering if you have any recommendations. Were there any TV shows or anything you found too difficult and had to come back to later?
Thank you for your kind words! I prefer using materials that are slightly above my current level and avoid those that are too challenging. It seems you've made great progress already. Congratulations! I haven't started reading books yet, but I sometimes check out audiobooks that aren't too difficult for me on LingQ. It shows the rate of new words, so I can tell whether it's suitable for me. As for TV shows, I often watch them with Chinese subtitles for the first time. If I'm very interested, I will try to watch it again with Japanese subtitles. However, if the Japanese subtitles are too difficult (for example, "unnatural"), I'll just choose another one. I hope this answers your questions. Thanks and good luck with your learning!
wow its already april, time passes so fast,
i have not done much progress since you last uploaded, i think im bad with dedicating time and building proper habbits, but ive been being more strict with myself and managed to pick up a few healthy habits that all normal people should have lately, so i think i can implement watching jp content everyday for an hour into my daily habits too
roadmap would be amazing and inspiring to see please do a video on that yes
i have question this month as well
have you tried practicing with real japanese speakers yet? i think you would do very well and make plenty of wonderful friends you should give it a try, talk to native speakers online, thats how i ussualy practice, and pick up new expressions
i mean whats the point of learning a languge if its not to communicate with the people of that languge right?
if you already interact with native speakers would you say you sturggle at all? or does it come quite easy and you can hold a conversation in more complicated and deeper topics?
for me i can only handle some simple daily life topics, whenever my friends try to explain something a bit more complicated to me or i try to explain i have to use translator tools T-T
Same here. I've made some native friends both online and offline. Living in Japan is a good advantage to speak more. But I'm still at a pre-intermediate level, so I also need to search online for certain things that I'm not able to explain. But I think that's normal. It even happens in our native languages, like it's hard to explain what exactly I'm doing in my job, so never mind~❤️
Here I am getting frustrated because I memorized a lot of vocab (Level N5 and N4) but I can't even express my thoughts. I already passed both levels last 2023, but I can't even speak Japanese 😭 Thanks for sharing your experience. Now's the time for me to look at my learning habits and change how I learn, because I feel like I'm stuck 😣
I totally understand your frustration. Please don't worry.😊Language learning is a journey, and it's okay to adjust your methods along the way. You're already on the right path. Keep pushing forward, and you'll start to see improvement in your speaking skills. 応援しています！
Japanese companies realized that there were even n1 cert holders who couldn't speak japanese and many have reevaluated their JLPT requisites. unless you have to for some job or function of living in japan I'd consider disregarding the JLPT completely, if you want to enrich your life by communicating with the language you can learn the language. Testing often isn't conducive to learning a real skill, it's conducive to learning to test. good luck and dont stress it, especially don't stress the time, the majority of humanity takes years to really speak a language at a satisfactory level.
@@YURU-EWT Thank you so much for the encouragement! 頑張ります！❤ I love your channel!! Great content!
@@kaerzokled Thank you for sharing this! It actually makes sense. It made me realize that I only knew how to take the test, not really acquire the language. It's time to change my mindset when it comes to truly grasping the language.
Your approach is I think much better if you have the patience. I've seen research indicating that while SRS is most effective for learning words as a beginner, it is much less useful at later stages, when interweaving (i.e. just lots of extensive reading) works much better. The problem is that SRS gives feedback, leading people to think that its more efficient. Learning expert Justin Sung insists that SRS is less effective than the type of learning you are trying, I think he is right.
I learned English, French a some German without any vocab memorization practices. Like really, I never memorized words or phrases in my life. Japanese is so intimidating with kanji and pitch that I started using Anki for the first time. Anki often make me miserable however, I consider to stop doing anki when I finally get a habit of regular reading.
You’re great!👍
the same for my English and I tried to find out my approach to learning Japanese more efficient and it looks like I can't avoid Anki completely in this time)
than you so much. I am a beginner at Japanese. I am using minna no nihongo. Do you think I would be able to learn Japanese by studying with the book 20 minutes at day, then do 15 minutes for listening, and 15 minutes for showing everyday.
do you have any advice ?
I am currently living in japan and I feel so frustate because I can"t communicate. My gold it to be able to speak it for now. I will focus on writing later.
Thank you for your comment! Everyone has their own pace, so I can't say for sure whether your schedule is feasible. However, your idea of combining textbook study with listening and shadowing practice sounds great. Over time, you'll likely find a timetable that suits your daily routine better, so don't worry too much about how much time you should devote each day.
I understand how frustrating it can be when we don't understand what people are saying. These channels were a big help for me with daily conversations. Feel free to check them out if you're interested. th-cam.com/video/UBitrUhSiAI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=l--gPg3zX0f1Z074 www.youtube.com/@japanese_tanakasan
Don't worry, after all, we're foreigners and we're trying to learn the language. We'll get there one day!
hell yeah
It sounds similar to how I've learned English I was really bad at school with that subject, but from watching foreign TH-camrs my brain sort of clicked, is it the same with Japanese? In the sense I need to feel and absorb the words not to memorize what are they in the different language. The problem is that for now everything I watch is entertaining for me but the sounds are alien to me.
Wow, your English is much better than mine! You use unique expressions I've never seen before, like "brain sort of clicked." It's so vivid! Maybe someday, I'll need to relearn English using the current approach. Are you learning Japanese now? I think entertaining content is the best because we don’t need extra effort to maintain the work. Keeping immersion will help internalize the sounds.
@@YURU-EWT Thank you for the kind words, yeah I've started to learn Japanese only recently, I have learned kana and the kanji keep scaring me, I love Japanese culture especially it's mythology and technology, so I would like to live there in the future. But flying there without knowing the target language first wouldn't be a smart decision on my part.
Yeah. I learned about a year before I came to Japan. Basic words and grammar helped a lot at the very beginning.
I started learning Japanese 10 days ago...But I poured so much time during those 10 days..I know the basic things like introducing yourself,some worlds for asking things, directions etc..the worlds you need to know during the travel, since i plan to go next year.. Every day i choose to learn the new worlds,but i feel like it's nonexistent...like a waste of time,so much that i feel burdened... I'm trying to balance things now,but i feel if i skip learning even for one day it would turned out to be bad...
Thank you for sharing your experience! It's amazing that you've dedicated so much time to learning Japanese in just 10 days. It's completely normal to feel overwhelmed when starting a new language, especially one as complex as Japanese. It's great that you're learning useful phrases for travel, and it's okay to take breaks when needed. Consistency is key, but it's also important to balance your studies with rest to avoid burnout. Even if you miss a day, it won't undo all your progress. Just pick up where you left off and keep going. Good luck with your studies and your upcoming trip to Japan!
Thanks a lot, also i would like to ask you if there is a way to improve my writing Kiragana,Katanaka..like some cheat tool because when i try to write...oh god 😂😭
While I don't find Duolingo particularly helpful for systematic learning, it's decent for learning hiragana! You can click on the "あ" tab at the bottom for access to learning hiragana and katakana. If I remember correctly, there are also writing exercises for each character. It should be quite beneficial to practice with pen and paper alongside your studies. Give it a try if you're interested.😊
@@YURU-EWT Thanks,i will try it out
すごい!日本語も英語も完璧に近いんじゃないですかね。顔も美人ですし。ユルさん中国人ですか？外国語をこんなに綺麗に話せる中国人を初めてみました。👍👍😍
私も外国人ですが😅
ありがとうございます！お褒めの言葉、とても嬉しいです。はい、中国人です。外国語の学習は大変ですが、楽しい挑戦でもあります。お互いに頑張りましょうね！😊
単語の暗記することというのはめちゃ厳しい過程と思う。毎日毎日、日本語を努力するのに日本語会話って駄目だ。もっと自然に話せるようになりたいのでこのアドバイスを教えてくれてありがとうございます。役に立つですね。ちなみに新しい登録者をできました😊
こんにちは！コメントありがとうございます。自然に話せるようになりたいという気持ち、すごく共感します。アドバイスが役に立てて嬉しいです！それから、新しい登録者になってくれてありがとうございます😊 これからも一緒に頑張りましょう！
@@YURU-EWTよーし😊😹、ゆるさんに感動されましたね。ある日、日本語のペラペラになりたいという夢が実際になりますよ。
Give it time. The brain needs time to create the connections you need. If could make it so can you
You're really cool looking
But It's interesting that she's got a Japanese accent when she speaks English ! I am Japanese and I thought she was Japanese because of her English
I'm surprised to hear that! I've always struggled with the flow of English because I'm used to the more segmented nature of Mandarin. Maybe once I master Japanese, I'll go back and work on my English again, haha.
How do Chinese people struggle to learn Japanese words when they already know all the kanji(words)?
That's a interesting question! While it's true that knowing Chinese gives us a head start with kanji, it's a bit like recognizing the shapes of puzzle pieces but still needing to figure out how they fit together. Japanese uses kanji differently, and with different pronunciations, meanings and sometimes way of writing. Plus, we have to learn hiragana, katakana, and all the unique grammar rules. So, it's a fun challenge, like solving a complex puzzle with familiar but slightly tricky pieces!！