As the young machinist mentioned in this video Barry is by far the best programmer I have ever had the pleasure of working with. I’m glad to see him doing big things now a days!
I programmed a medical part from 17-4 the other day. The machinist came to me and said the 1/2 in endmill is running too fast. I looked at it and said its fine. I explained I was using a high speed strategy. He said he knows but, they've never run a 1/2in endmill in 17-4 over 2500 rpm even with a high speed machining.. I told him if it doesn't work, lunch is on me. He never came to claim his free lunch.
17-4 is a very odd material as it has the ability to run at high rpm or lower rpm and both will work depending on Woc and loc. I've got a few projects I cut in that material it's always fun material to work with
This is great advice, so long as the programmer knows how to leave an appropriate finishing pass. I got tired of hearing programmers saying "the cutter can handle it" and not understand that due to deflection the parts had taper and were out-of-round. There is a time for hogging and a time to "kiss" it just right as Titan says.
I'm not a machinist, but when I watch the videos you guys produce the speed at which they move just totally freaks me out. Those machines are just incredible, its enjoyable watching them operate.
yup i work at a small company that's stuck. They have no money to buy good tooling, but they have no money because they keep wasting it on crappy tooling and having to pay machinists to sit there staring at the machines running at 1ipm. I had to make a 2x2x11 inch slot in multiple 316 stainless parts and they hand me an old 5/8 HSS roughing endmill. it took me literally days to do these parts between the broken endmills and the incredibly long time it took to machine these parts. 1ipm machining sucks. Then I needed to tap these parts, I asked for at least coated taps. Instead i'm given an hss spiral point tap to use on blind holes. I asked for spiral flute taps and they said they "break too easily" and didn't want to use them. I said I can manually program a thread mill (since cam is a "waste of money"), they said those are also a "waste of money". I keep trying to help them but they ignore me because I'm fairly new to machining. trying to help them change but it's never going to happen, they're way too stuck in their ways. sometimes all you can do is shake their hand, thank them for the opportunity and move on with your career. On a side note i actually managed to get my hands on some 11/16 carbide spade drills and I showed my boss the drill running at 1500rpm and 8ipm into some a36 and hes "never seen the machine run that fast before". I told him that's on the low end of what's possible with modern machining techniques and tooling but they still don't want to change.
If a company slows you down in your own devellopment.. Appy for a job somewhere else.. you'll make more money, and spend less time "with your nose to the glass".. I spend my first 4 years in a company just like that.. i was experimenting with how fast i could push tools on a lathe.. but when i was using cutting depths over 1 mm, i was told not to do that.. because the machine couldn't handle that.. Then.. i became a toolmaker.. and within a month i as pushing tools with an 8! mm Cutting depth through toolsteel on an even older lathe than at my previous job.. i learnt so much there..
Im no machinist or mechanical engineer, but I sure love watching this stuff. If I was a young man I'd be begging you for an apprenticeship. But I do have a skill that has served me well for many years. Im very good at picking the difference between BS & wisdom. I got a pleasant dose of wisdom from this vid. Thanks. Rock on.
The shop I work for was mainly only HSS for my first couple years. Once we made the change to carbide, it was like a whole new world opened up. What we paid in double the price, was later saved when we were using carbide tools 20x+ longer than HSS. Great video.
Now a days HSS still have some good aplications due to 2 things, first as u said it deflects more, and second the edge can be thinner than carbide if u are buying high quality HSS like HSSE-PM and thats a game changer for some materials
I use it for that exact reason. On Delrin and acrylic it leaves a very nice finish. So I rough it with a DLC coated 2 flute then kiss it with HSS for a perfect finish.
@@brandons9138 That's a myth. Dedicated Aluminium carbide tools are easily as sharp as HSS. And for steel a perfectly sharp edge is not the best choice.
@@norbertfleck812 The sharpness of a carbide end mill is dictated by the size of the carbide grains and the amount of tungsten binder in the tool composition. Since a HSS is a homogenous material it's can be sharpened to a much keener edge. Trying to get the same edge on a carbide tool just causes the edge to round over as the carbide particles separate from the tungsten binder. I'm not saying that you can't get an extremely sharp edge on carbide, but the limits of the material composition dictate it's ultimate sharpness limit. That limit is higher for HSS.
I have just manual mills. I've found that in most cases, HSS is better for that mill than carbide. I do have some carbide for dealing with harder materials. Both work good. HSS is less likely to chip off though.
When I started my last job, almost all the tools were hss. When I left, almost all tools were carbide. But not all. Some hss cutters couldn’t be beat for the application. The owner was scared of breaking expensive carbide at first. I’m glad I helped him see the light. And he was grateful. One of the few good owners out there , the more money you made him , the more you made. I may even go back and work for him when I want to “retire”.
I agree so much with this story. yesterday I tried upping the speeds and feeds in off time with my own endmills and the results were pretty insane. I ran a pretty low alloy construction steel at 300m/min(984sfm) with a feed per tooth of 0.2mm(.008") on a 10mm 4 flute endmill and was amazed how long it lasted at a 14mm doc and 10% stepover. I am pretty much the only one at work trying to utilize modern toolpaths and i wish it was different.
The lathe I was using the other day maxes out at ~350 rpm, a pre-WWII Monarch. When I first came upon it a while back it had some carbide tooling with it, needed a 1/2" spacer to raise the tool post, and no one was using it. I found a 1/2" HSS blank buried among all the tooling and ground a cutter from that. It does what it needs to do in our shop.
I’ve been watching your channel for years. I was a generator mechanic turned designer in the Marine Corps dealing with 3D printers and marveled at machining. I bought a lathe, mill and mini CNC router. I attempted it once and felt mediocre and didn’t touch anything for years. Over time I became an expert at 3D printing so much so that I started making my own. Now I’m on an all new project and needed machining services. I took a look at my machine and said to myself why not. Gave it a shot with a carbide 2 flute flat end mill. I was surprised at how clean my job came out despite the low speeds and the part being aluminum. I now plan on making my machines CNC.
I worked in a shop that wouldn't even spend the money on decent HSS, they only bought Chinese HSS cutters that were dull and chipped with burrs all over the cutting edges right out of the box, it was always a fight to get them to order me decent tools (I was the only machinist in the building). On some jobs I was able to get them to order carbide for tougher jobs like stainless steel but they never got anything name brand or coated, just plain cheap carbide which inevitably broke or chipped. I was pissed when they laid me off, until my old boss called me a few weeks later and hooked me up with Cobalt Enterprises in Washington, they were a tiny machine shop back then but the owner knew the value in quality tools and I never had to deal with cheap tools again, and I also learned about high speed machining there which really opened up my knowledge of machining. Last I heard Cobalt was employing over 200 people and bringing in several million per month, I unfortunately had to quit the machining industry due to me developing severe coolant allergies so I haven't kept up to date with the company but they won a bunch of business awards not too long ago.
This stuff is so cool. I used to work for my uncle during High School machining threaded rods and fasteners. Absolutely loved it! I know the basics. Not a lot of cnc or cad work, mostly dyes and presses. But It was such a fun job!
I work in a job shop for over 20 years and we use about 80-90% of HSS tools. That has to do with our machines. Some are 30 years old and almost no maintenance was done on them. We have chipped spindle everything is loose old adapters. 🤦🏻I’m jealous when I watch you guys slay that metal
@@barrysetzer we have some fairly new machines but those need some TLC. I have a feeling that my boss is going to sell business. He’s on the older side.
That's not too bad compared to one of my customers who run a fab shop,poor worker trying to cut solid round 2" bar using an angle grinder somehow can't afford a bandsaw but drives around in a 250K car.
If I had someone like you running the shops I worked in I would have stayed in engineering I ended up buying my own cutters in because the shops cutters were so bad, all HSS Very few shops have the mentality to succeed I started my own business instead , design and build
Been doing this on the 750 I'm getting trained on. Sometimes we lose some time due to re programming and back an forth with edits. But now the programming is dummy proof and will run smooth. We have an order coming up that we will beat the runtime by hours for the whole job because we spent an hour on the last order dialing feeds and speeds updating tool sizes
Thank God I always worked for shops that weren't afraid to spend the money for the best tool for the job. And sometimes HSS tool's are the best for the job, but not very often. The advantages I have had with HSS was the tool can take a shock. Like using the tool through different materials, hardnesses, intermittent cuts and I have even had better tool life in some high tensile strength materials. If you have rigidity problems HSS can sometimes works better. But I can probably count on one hand where a HSS tool could do the job carbide, ceramic, PCD, CBN, coated carbide etc. couldn't.
I love HSS for aluminum and brass. I deburr very complicated manifolds and the high amount of flutes prevents secondary burrs, I only really use carbide for hard steel and titanium.
I almost fully agree with you on this subject, but I have to say one thing about it you might consider. I have done a lot of prototype work, most of my time is in that line of work. I have to say that there are times, especially in high nickel stainless steels that high speed can last longer in certain situations especially when the customer doesn't want to spend much initially and you don't know if you will ever see the job again. Additionally, when you don't have the high speed spindles and feed rates available it can create difficulty for a small shop. Drilling is especially difficult with some situations in some stainlesses and will break a carbide tool off, whereas hss will put up with more abuse, i.e. I had to drill a .008" hole .025" deep in a piece of titanium, and I only had one chance, I had to use carbide because hss was unavailable at the time, and it was a real nightmare being the concentricity was insanely important. Changing the rpm was very important, and after I got the part drilled, just out of curiosity I drilled as many as I could in a scrap and at the exact setting I drilled 12 more holes. I moved the rpm a snicker, and it snapped. I would have to suppose that hss would have been easier.
Are you planning to do an open house event after the pandemic. Because I would love to visit your facility, even if I had to travel from Europe to the US.
@@austinyates4923 But you need to be aware, that you need to have the cutting edge very sharp... Carbide can also work, but it mostly has a slightly rounded cutting edge... Thats the reason Carbide cant that such light cuts... BUt you need to be aware that I only know that on lathes... I dont have knowledge, if that works on mills too... And you need to make sure, that the geometry of the HSS is right... This Old Tony has a Video "Grinding HSS Tools", which I can recommend...
@@intubungamer6173 Ive found that although cutting conditions are not ideal, carbide end mills absolutely can take very light cuts to reach tolerance. Sure its gonna wear slightly faster, but carbide is so much more rigid than HSS and allows you to make those full DOC walls accurately.
@@intubungamer6173 End mills are very sharp compared to lathe inserts. Also there are dead sharp carbide inserts or dead sharp solid boring bars for lathes too but their applications are more limited in turning (not so much for the boring bars)
I've been using this type of program this week with a .5 Tin coated 4 flute carbide. Nothing fancy. The old guys said no.. I'd destroy something. I took an all day process down to just over an hour in P20. .95 deep on 1.0 of flute. And it looks like a mirror. They keep touching it because it's so pretty.
friend of mine was running a few 3-axis machines at a company making rather complex parts. they were about to replace several machines with basically the same model and wouldnt even look at 5-axis so he borrowed my Pocket NC, ran exclusively a single 1mm cutter and was almost 2 hours faster per part than the 3-axis machines.
@@angrydragonslayer Awsome. Put them out of buisness. Start a firm and compete with them. To many people simply don't understand capitalism. In capitalism you don't have to reform "the system" . You can simply make it obsolete.. Get of your ass and start to make money.
I have had great results using HSS center drills on lathes for production runs on high nickel alloys. When carbide gets dull it shatters but HSS just got progressively dull.
Agree on that one 100% even on mill I stopped using carbide spot drills for the same reason,It's the only HSS tool besides some drills I use on my machining centre. I don't know what I'm doing wrong tried too many different feeds and speeds and after a while still ends up with chipped edges.
@@mehmettemel8725 I believe the problem is holding it in a chuck and many chucks are out a little depending on there history (jaw wear ect). There's a carbide insert spot drill that is held in a holder that works great.
@@HighGear7445 That is not the case my machining centre is only couple of years old and using collet chucks or hydraulic chucks so run out is not an issue.I haven't tried inserted spot drills maybe worth trying.
Did you try carbide end mills for aluminum or wood or... plastic? They're way sharper than the cutters for steel. I would try an up/down cut endmill, it has short upwards cutting flutes for bottom and down cutting flutes for top so it won't leave a burr to either edges
@@MF175mp Yeah there are specialized carbide cutters for almost any application, they really pay off for regular jobs. For one offs having a sharp HSS endmill flying around can do wonders.
When I first started out , I bought a top-notch threading tool, inserts etc. Then seen an old school, Armstrong threading tool on eBay for 25 dollars. Now the Armstrong hss is my go to threading tool. But it only fits in one of my lathes. Very satisfied with my eBay purchase .
Don't forget about down cutting endmills. You can pinch the work in a normal vise and leave a huge stickout or overhang and only support with a machinist jack. The cutter pushes down and the vise stops the twist.
I’m cutting stainless steel, and other steels including some with super hard flame cut crust, the HSS Rippa 20mm is outlasting the carbide, it’s also only a 1/4 of the price at £36, tbf it does have a coating on it but still super cheap.
that work hardened rough shit is notorious for slamming carbide into it's own grave. HSS has enough give to flex on interrupted cuts where carbide would probably shit itself.
We made the change to high speed machining when I took over programing and setup. It's been a learning process. to say the least. High speed machining will work in older machines but your spindle bearings might not handle it. Short cycles, sure, but anything that takes time I would slow the RPM down and adjust the feed accordingly. When programming, try both high speed paths and traditional. On occasion you will find the traditional path is faster.
Love your videos, but this one seems to have the voice a bit too low compared to the others, don’t get me wrong I like the sound of the machine, just it seemed to overpower the voice level. Edit it’s mostly just the first half.
Im in one of these shops who dont understand what good cam software is worth, they dont even have any -.- i have been fighting for this stuff since i was a first year apprentice. Now five years later, i feel like im finally close to some results... Wish me luck in the comming days friends, its gonna be a battle.
We use carbide exclusively, but on a 1995 Toyoda horizontal or a 1988 Okuma Howa, they don't feed that fast and max spindle speed is 10 - 15k. I do my best at reprogramming, but at the end of the day, the bearings are still shot and the turrets are still out of alignment. I do miss running newer machines so much...
I make the carbide cutters for the machine shop I work in. We have a mix of 60s machines all the way up to a new 5 axis huge machine centre. Heavy speed4 machine Most of the cutters I make are for stupidly tight tolerance jobs. I had a cutter come back because it was 0.004mm out 4 bastard micron Not a chance we could do it with hhs.
I currently work in a shop that the 'old timers' run carbide at HSS speeds. I understand manual machines not being able to handle it but the CNC with 10k spindle running maybe 1k revs.
I worked at a place where I would’ve been, and have been yelled at by the management for doing stuff like this. What an uphill battle I’ve been through making improvements over the years. Glad I don’t work there any longer.
hi nathiandavault have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.
Hello Barry I have learned more from you than anybody I have worked with. It would be a privilege to work alongside you. Keep up the great work and great videos.
One thing I have never understood about these special coatings on carbide cutters, is that the coating on the cutting edge wears immediately upon the first cut. I'm talking about the cutting edge, you know, the part that cuts, the part that matters most. The coating is gone immediately.
If your coating wears out immediately, there is something you're doing wrong. Could be using the wrong coating for the application, you're having chemical reactions in the workpiece material, or you're running way way too high of a cutting speed.
@@pummppkinn If not immediately, within a few seconds. I am speaking of the cutting edge where it meets the metal in the cut. It wears immediately on any coated end mill. If you look at it under magnification, the coating on the very edge will be gone.
@@rayfletcher8759 if the coating wears off as far as you described, your feed rate is probably far too low. On carbide mills the minimum feed rate is 1/200 of the tool diameter per cutting edge, the minimum cutting speed on mild steel should be around 150 - 200 m/min. Normal feed rates in mild steel can be as high as 1/100 of the diameter per cutting edge at 50% overlap. Don't care your carbide tools to death! Blue chips are perfect for carbide milliing.
I was a Universal Miller many years ago ,seeing these high tech machines is light years away from how I worked, everything was hands on from a paper touch to a feeler gauge. How thing change. It looks like the Terminators are on the way.
hi mikehopkins have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.
Beginning at 0:40, why is the radius interrupted by the bump in the middle until the radius takes its final form? Reduced engagement of the cutter? I'm not a machinist, just very interested as an ME
My boss (epitome of old school machinist) is a big fan of HSS. He believes that HSS end mills are sharper than carbide end mills since they’re softer and grind easier and I’m like dude I can literally SEE the edge on this brand new hss end mill shining at me like a fucking spider web whereas the carbide end mills all have perfect edges. But yeah the resilience of hss definitely has a place in the imperfect job shop world. We’re not always working with pretty new materials.
The only situations I can think of where high speed is better is when the machine can't achieve high enough speeds, isn't rigid enough (mainly a problem on older dovetail cnc conversions etc.) The carbide will most likely fare better in short term, but the slack will cause it to wear with abnormal rates. And when cutting soft materials. Of course you can get specialized carbide for said materials, but common hss fares better on than "traditional" carbide bits.
Back in the day I was the new machinist who introduced my workplace into HSM toolpaths with solid carbide tooling and high feed milling with insert cutters. Machines were literally moving 5x faster and they even sounded better even though most of them were just light duty fadals and haas VMCs And this was one of those shops where boss told machinist not to run 15k spindle at 15k and limit rapid rates to 50% so that machines don't wear out.
High speed is better with conventional machines as they hold up to vibration better. They also wear in a linear fashion so you can bore bearing holes ect with great accuracy.
I don’t even know the difference between HSS and carbide?…..I know carbide is more brittle and more expensive thats about it lol. Man I have a lot to learn still!
Carbide can produce blue chips all day long without wearing off quickly. On HSS you run 30 m/min in mild steel, with carbide tools 200/min is no problem. Also you can run higher feed rates (always calculated in feed per flute).
I have a job where I need to pocket out a cup basically with a stud in the center. It's 316SS. We are currently using the Harvy TE 5/8 endmills. Working fairly well. I think it's a chip evacuation issue that's causing breakage.
Reminds me of all the woodturning hacks uploading five minutes of comically sped-up video showing them roughing a spindle that somebody with a little practice would get to round in ten seconds.
Ive been less than a year learning machining/mastercam programming... We use metric and i never see anything over like 900mm/m feedrate, how the hell do you figure these things out without getting into trouble with bosses/trainers
Mastercam has what they call their "home learning edition." It's great to learn, it's free and does just about everything the standard does, but you can't post any gcode
Ohh man! You are a great programmer!! I'm also struggling reaming holes using different sizes to reach the final diameter. I was thinking to give a try using a boring tool. But what would be your approach? Crossing my fingers to you to read my comment!! Thank you very much
I'm so sad. I broke 3 1/4in 5 flute endmill in one day. 1st one was speed and feeds are off for 1012c steel. 5000rpm where it should be 3000rpm. I broke the 2nd one by rerunning the same part. Little did I know, their was a piece of carbide lodge in the steel and broke the 2nd one. The 3rd one I thought the clamp was secure and when the cut was finished, it moved the clamp due to high vibration and hit my endmill and broke it. Luckily I wasn't fired but I would've fired myself too as well. For making rookies mistake.
my employer wouldn't even buy a cam software license for me 🤣 we're a maintenance department and use a Hurco VMX30i mill to make spare parts or to make changes to parts of our production machines. it's 4 of us who operate the mill, it's not constantly running, as we're not "production" we just occasionally need it. only one of us has a CAM software on his computer, the rest is programming by hand via the WinMax software on the controlpanel of the machine.
@@barrysetzer no use. they already decided to gradually close down the plant til 2028, and move production to eastern europe. german workforce is too expensive in the eyes of investors. my boss is saving every penny of "hard expense" he can, so he still qualifies for his annual bonus until that date. they already let off 800 people.
@@norbertfleck812 the production department is separate from maintenance. this company is specialized in injection molding, bonding LCD screens and making entire tachometer units for cars. production actually goes relatively well. if you ever owned a german made car, it's very likely you had one of our products. the driving cost is the hourly rate of the staff. a production mechanic, depending on experience and age has an hourly salary between 18€ and 25€ plus bonuses for late shifts, night shift and working on sundays. a worker in romania, serbia or other countries where production will be sent to, would make about a quarter of that. spread that saving over 3000 workers, and 21 shifts per week, and it's a pretty decent amount of money.
I was hoping for more than 20 seconds about a specific use for HSS and then the rest was a story about HSM and carbide based on the title. I would like to know some of the specific uses other than milling parts with garbage/unpredictable inclusions. There as you said are a lot of myths out there. I occasionally have opportunity to pick up HSS tools second hand. I also am considering can I resharpen them since much of my work is done with the end.
You can resharpen carbide tools as well. There's no reason to waste your machine time with HSS. HSS is only suitable for deep drilling when you don't have an internal high pressure cooling. Also tapping is usually a job for HSS tools.
@@norbertfleck812 I will eventually need to find a place for that. I am mostly a hobby person not a pro. I have nothing but respect for the CNC Titans.I keep hearing HSS is more tolerant of heat? I was thinking shop sharpening vs sending the tool out. I'm mostly working in wood so while I have some 1/2 and 3/8 tools I generally can't get the S&F high enough to do the CL suggested by the manufacturer. I'm getting to metal in a year or so, it's just a process and making mistakes on the CNC router does not put my friend on the CNC mill out of production for a few days re-calibrating the machine. I liked how they discussed inclusions breaking tools, and I would rather have an old HSS find the metal in the slab before the good carbide mill does.
@@rpatrick2 HSS can bear temperature up to 300°C, Carbide up to 700°C without getting dull immediately. The only thing Carbide hates are temperature shocks like running dry at high temperatures and then being flushed with water. This can occur with a fraction of a second, when you only have water on one side.
@@norbertfleck812 Thanks. It's hard to find this information. I know with wood we are told the tool should be warm at the most after the cut. Though not having the beast machines in some of the Titan videos it's hard to get to the CL the manufacturer wants. I did feel the pain of I think it is this video or another one with 90% RDOC and 1/2dia ADOC and 100IPM. "you know that's a 4KW spindle right?" Then I start throwing chips like a cigarette boat.
Main problem as usual is state of machines. Old and not maintaned haw a habit of vibrating carbide to death. Rigidity is as we all know the main thing. There is something even beter then carbide... But it brakes even easier, daimond or even beter boron carbide. Loved the daimond, finish is mirorr...
Is there a reason the beginning material is so much bigger? That seems like a lot of waste, when you could get a piece that's only 1/2 inch bigger than the finished product? I'm not trying to be rude. This is a genuine question.
If your machine maxes out at 6000 rpm you can use HSS on most materials. At the speeds your talking about takes quilty machinist that track the wear and change out tools at the proper time. Over 6000 rpm you better be using tool holders without set screws and balanced holders with through the spindle high pressure coolant . Machines with tool management wear and breakage detection. Your programming department should be running crash detection software. Running at though speeds requires more technology higher tooling costs and trained personnel Then the days of HSS cutters .
6000 rpm is perfectly fine for Carbide tools in mild steel. In stainless you hardly go as high. We do not have internal cooling on any of our CNC milling machines, but we use HSS only for drilling, tapping and reaming. In short holes (up to 3×D) we use Carbide drills anyways.
Definitely not. Use uncoated carbide tools rated for Aluminium - they run perfectly and never get dull. In POM we even use "Universal" carbide mills (TiAlN coated) and the surface is perfect.
@@norbertfleck812 at least in my experience, we've had great luck in using HSS for plastics like teflon and delrin. Like you said, if you get super sharp carbide tools for aluminum they work well but we've always had better luck with HSS in plastics.
People who worked like 30+ years on metal production lanes said to me that machining soft materials is better with softer tools. Like if you want to machine AL u should use HSS mill because it is going better with better with less sounds and vibration and parts get better surface finish. Is it true? Im not totally sure till today, because it sounds not logical but people experienced this on their own and gave me advices. It's not my opinion. We can discuss that matter.
That's nonsense. The right Carbide tools work perfectly in soft material from plastic over brass and copper to Aluminum. In Aluminium we run up to 500 m/min (if the machine allows it) and feed rates up to 1/100 tool diameter per flute. Even on wood, we only use carbide tools, as they last much longer and allow extreme speeds (25,000 rpm)
As the young machinist mentioned in this video Barry is by far the best programmer I have ever had the pleasure of working with. I’m glad to see him doing big things now a days!
Oh shiiiiiit! Hi blayne!!!!!!!
I programmed a medical part from 17-4 the other day. The machinist came to me and said the 1/2 in endmill is running too fast. I looked at it and said its fine. I explained I was using a high speed strategy. He said he knows but, they've never run a 1/2in endmill in 17-4 over 2500 rpm even with a high speed machining.. I told him if it doesn't work, lunch is on me. He never came to claim his free lunch.
Bwahahahahahahaha love this comment
17-4 is a very odd material as it has the ability to run at high rpm or lower rpm and both will work depending on Woc and loc. I've got a few projects I cut in that material it's always fun material to work with
I'm relatively new to milling. I've been a lathe programmer for 35 years. I do mostly mill/turn machines. I'm loving this new information!
Did you kill him?
What was the heat treatment of the part?
Machining is the epitome of “Every tool has its place”
This is great advice, so long as the programmer knows how to leave an appropriate finishing pass. I got tired of hearing programmers saying "the cutter can handle it" and not understand that due to deflection the parts had taper and were out-of-round. There is a time for hogging and a time to "kiss" it just right as Titan says.
I end up having to run a kiss pass because I don't have any precision collets. The lowest runout I have is .0025"
I'm not a machinist, but when I watch the videos you guys produce the speed at which they move just totally freaks me out. Those machines are just incredible, its enjoyable watching them operate.
yup i work at a small company that's stuck. They have no money to buy good tooling, but they have no money because they keep wasting it on crappy tooling and having to pay machinists to sit there staring at the machines running at 1ipm. I had to make a 2x2x11 inch slot in multiple 316 stainless parts and they hand me an old 5/8 HSS roughing endmill. it took me literally days to do these parts between the broken endmills and the incredibly long time it took to machine these parts. 1ipm machining sucks. Then I needed to tap these parts, I asked for at least coated taps. Instead i'm given an hss spiral point tap to use on blind holes. I asked for spiral flute taps and they said they "break too easily" and didn't want to use them. I said I can manually program a thread mill (since cam is a "waste of money"), they said those are also a "waste of money". I keep trying to help them but they ignore me because I'm fairly new to machining. trying to help them change but it's never going to happen, they're way too stuck in their ways. sometimes all you can do is shake their hand, thank them for the opportunity and move on with your career.
On a side note i actually managed to get my hands on some 11/16 carbide spade drills and I showed my boss the drill running at 1500rpm and 8ipm into some a36 and hes "never seen the machine run that fast before". I told him that's on the low end of what's possible with modern machining techniques and tooling but they still don't want to change.
If a company slows you down in your own devellopment.. Appy for a job somewhere else.. you'll make more money, and spend less time "with your nose to the glass"..
I spend my first 4 years in a company just like that.. i was experimenting with how fast i could push tools on a lathe.. but when i was using cutting depths over 1 mm, i was told not to do that.. because the machine couldn't handle that..
Then.. i became a toolmaker.. and within a month i as pushing tools with an 8! mm Cutting depth through toolsteel on an even older lathe than at my previous job.. i learnt so much there..
You should definitely start your own shop and prove them your better
Im no machinist or mechanical engineer, but I sure love watching this stuff. If I was a young man I'd be begging you for an apprenticeship. But I do have a skill that has served me well for many years. Im very good at picking the difference between BS & wisdom. I got a pleasant dose of wisdom from this vid. Thanks. Rock on.
You should try a few of the free courses at Academy.TITANSofCNC.com
The shop I work for was mainly only HSS for my first couple years. Once we made the change to carbide, it was like a whole new world opened up. What we paid in double the price, was later saved when we were using carbide tools 20x+ longer than HSS. Great video.
Now a days HSS still have some good aplications due to 2 things, first as u said it deflects more, and second the edge can be thinner than carbide if u are buying high quality HSS like HSSE-PM and thats a game changer for some materials
I use it for that exact reason. On Delrin and acrylic it leaves a very nice finish. So I rough it with a DLC coated 2 flute then kiss it with HSS for a perfect finish.
@@importanttingwei7747 work somewhere else
Yup. HSS is sharper than carbide.
@@brandons9138 That's a myth.
Dedicated Aluminium carbide tools are easily as sharp as HSS.
And for steel a perfectly sharp edge is not the best choice.
@@norbertfleck812 The sharpness of a carbide end mill is dictated by the size of the carbide grains and the amount of tungsten binder in the tool composition. Since a HSS is a homogenous material it's can be sharpened to a much keener edge. Trying to get the same edge on a carbide tool just causes the edge to round over as the carbide particles separate from the tungsten binder. I'm not saying that you can't get an extremely sharp edge on carbide, but the limits of the material composition dictate it's ultimate sharpness limit. That limit is higher for HSS.
I have just manual mills. I've found that in most cases, HSS is better for that mill than carbide. I do have some carbide for dealing with harder materials. Both work good. HSS is less likely to chip off though.
When I started my last job, almost all the tools were hss. When I left, almost all tools were carbide. But not all. Some hss cutters couldn’t be beat for the application. The owner was scared of breaking expensive carbide at first. I’m glad I helped him see the light. And he was grateful. One of the few good owners out there , the more money you made him , the more you made. I may even go back and work for him when I want to “retire”.
Love your comment fyi
I agree so much with this story. yesterday I tried upping the speeds and feeds in off time with my own endmills and the results were pretty insane.
I ran a pretty low alloy construction steel at 300m/min(984sfm) with a feed per tooth of 0.2mm(.008") on a 10mm 4 flute endmill and was amazed how long it lasted
at a 14mm doc and 10% stepover. I am pretty much the only one at work trying to utilize modern toolpaths and i wish it was different.
The lathe I was using the other day maxes out at ~350 rpm, a pre-WWII Monarch. When I first came upon it a while back it had some carbide tooling with it, needed a 1/2" spacer to raise the tool post, and no one was using it. I found a 1/2" HSS blank buried among all the tooling and ground a cutter from that. It does what it needs to do in our shop.
I’ve been watching your channel for years. I was a generator mechanic turned designer in the Marine Corps dealing with 3D printers and marveled at machining. I bought a lathe, mill and mini CNC router. I attempted it once and felt mediocre and didn’t touch anything for years. Over time I became an expert at 3D printing so much so that I started making my own. Now I’m on an all new project and needed machining services. I took a look at my machine and said to myself why not. Gave it a shot with a carbide 2 flute flat end mill. I was surprised at how clean my job came out despite the low speeds and the part being aluminum. I now plan on making my machines CNC.
I worked in a shop that wouldn't even spend the money on decent HSS, they only bought Chinese HSS cutters that were dull and chipped with burrs all over the cutting edges right out of the box, it was always a fight to get them to order me decent tools (I was the only machinist in the building). On some jobs I was able to get them to order carbide for tougher jobs like stainless steel but they never got anything name brand or coated, just plain cheap carbide which inevitably broke or chipped. I was pissed when they laid me off, until my old boss called me a few weeks later and hooked me up with Cobalt Enterprises in Washington, they were a tiny machine shop back then but the owner knew the value in quality tools and I never had to deal with cheap tools again, and I also learned about high speed machining there which really opened up my knowledge of machining. Last I heard Cobalt was employing over 200 people and bringing in several million per month, I unfortunately had to quit the machining industry due to me developing severe coolant allergies so I haven't kept up to date with the company but they won a bunch of business awards not too long ago.
This stuff is so cool. I used to work for my uncle during High School machining threaded rods and fasteners. Absolutely loved it! I know the basics. Not a lot of cnc or cad work, mostly dyes and presses. But It was such a fun job!
I work in a job shop for over 20 years and we use about 80-90% of HSS tools. That has to do with our machines. Some are 30 years old and almost no maintenance was done on them. We have chipped spindle everything is loose old adapters. 🤦🏻I’m jealous when I watch you guys slay that metal
Man, that hurt me eyes reading that. Convince them to buy ONE new machine, bro
@@barrysetzer we have some fairly new machines but those need some TLC. I have a feeling that my boss is going to sell business. He’s on the older side.
That's not too bad compared to one of my customers who run a fab shop,poor worker trying to cut solid round 2" bar using an angle grinder somehow can't afford a bandsaw but drives around in a 250K car.
If I had someone like you running the shops I worked in I would have stayed in engineering
I ended up buying my own cutters in because the shops cutters were so bad, all HSS
Very few shops have the mentality to succeed
I started my own business instead , design and build
I can tell my man Berry was shocked by thumbnail!😆😆😆 I watched the video and had the same reaction!!
Love it
Been doing this on the 750 I'm getting trained on. Sometimes we lose some time due to re programming and back an forth with edits. But now the programming is dummy proof and will run smooth. We have an order coming up that we will beat the runtime by hours for the whole job because we spent an hour on the last order dialing feeds and speeds updating tool sizes
Thank God I always worked for shops that weren't afraid to spend the money for the best tool for the job.
And sometimes HSS tool's are the best for the job, but not very often.
The advantages I have had with HSS was the tool can take a shock. Like using the tool through different materials, hardnesses, intermittent cuts and I have even had better tool life in some high tensile strength materials.
If you have rigidity problems HSS can sometimes works better.
But I can probably count on one hand where a HSS tool could do the job carbide, ceramic, PCD, CBN, coated carbide etc. couldn't.
I love HSS for aluminum and brass. I deburr very complicated manifolds and the high amount of flutes prevents secondary burrs, I only really use carbide for hard steel and titanium.
Just a fun fact that i never thought about till now……the manager of manufacturing at the shop im talking about here? His name was “CHIP.” I LOVE CHIPS
I almost fully agree with you on this subject, but I have to say one thing about it you might consider. I have done a lot of prototype work, most of my time is in that line of work. I have to say that there are times, especially in high nickel stainless steels that high speed can last longer in certain situations especially when the customer doesn't want to spend much initially and you don't know if you will ever see the job again. Additionally, when you don't have the high speed spindles and feed rates available it can create difficulty for a small shop. Drilling is especially difficult with some situations in some stainlesses and will break a carbide tool off, whereas hss will put up with more abuse, i.e. I had to drill a .008" hole .025" deep in a piece of titanium, and I only had one chance, I had to use carbide because hss was unavailable at the time, and it was a real nightmare being the concentricity was insanely important. Changing the rpm was very important, and after I got the part drilled, just out of curiosity I drilled as many as I could in a scrap and at the exact setting I drilled 12 more holes. I moved the rpm a snicker, and it snapped. I would have to suppose that hss would have been easier.
Are you planning to do an open house event after the pandemic. Because I would love to visit your facility, even if I had to travel from Europe to the US.
I have already asked and never got a response.
I am from Scotland but would love to visit their machine shop. Best I have ever seen
They just demo and sell machines there. I don't believe they're an actual job shop anymore
That's how fast I expect my DIY CNC mill to run when I finish it
HSS can also take lighter cuts than carbide... It really helps to use HSS in reworking parts that are out of tolerance...
Thats good to know will have to test this out for my next reworks !
@@austinyates4923 But you need to be aware, that you need to have the cutting edge very sharp... Carbide can also work, but it mostly has a slightly rounded cutting edge... Thats the reason Carbide cant that such light cuts... BUt you need to be aware that I only know that on lathes... I dont have knowledge, if that works on mills too... And you need to make sure, that the geometry of the HSS is right... This Old Tony has a Video "Grinding HSS Tools", which I can recommend...
@@intubungamer6173 Ive found that although cutting conditions are not ideal, carbide end mills absolutely can take very light cuts to reach tolerance. Sure its gonna wear slightly faster, but carbide is so much more rigid than HSS and allows you to make those full DOC walls accurately.
@@intubungamer6173 End mills are very sharp compared to lathe inserts. Also there are dead sharp carbide inserts or dead sharp solid boring bars for lathes too but their applications are more limited in turning (not so much for the boring bars)
I've been using this type of program this week with a .5 Tin coated 4 flute carbide. Nothing fancy. The old guys said no.. I'd destroy something. I took an all day process down to just over an hour in P20. .95 deep on 1.0 of flute. And it looks like a mirror. They keep touching it because it's so pretty.
friend of mine was running a few 3-axis machines at a company making rather complex parts. they were about to replace several machines with basically the same model and wouldnt even look at 5-axis
so he borrowed my Pocket NC, ran exclusively a single 1mm cutter and was almost 2 hours faster per part than the 3-axis machines.
and no, they did not buy the 5-axis machines.
@@angrydragonslayer Awsome. Put them out of buisness. Start a firm and compete with them.
To many people simply don't understand capitalism. In capitalism you don't have to reform "the system" . You can simply make it obsolete..
Get of your ass and start to make money.
@@think2invest loan him the $$$$
I have had great results using HSS center drills on lathes for production runs on high nickel alloys. When carbide gets dull it shatters but HSS just got progressively dull.
Agree on that one 100% even on mill I stopped using carbide spot drills for the same reason,It's the only HSS tool besides some drills I use on my machining centre. I don't know what I'm doing wrong tried too many different feeds and speeds and after a while still ends up with chipped edges.
@@mehmettemel8725 I believe the problem is holding it in a chuck and many chucks are out a little depending on there history (jaw wear ect). There's a carbide insert spot drill that is held in a holder that works great.
@@HighGear7445 That is not the case my machining centre is only couple of years old and using collet chucks or hydraulic chucks so run out is not an issue.I haven't tried inserted spot drills maybe worth trying.
Back in my day, I kept a set of HSS mills for teflon/delrin jobs. It seemed they had a sharper razor edge that left no burr.
Carbide has a honed edge. Hss has a knife edge.
Did you try carbide end mills for aluminum or wood or... plastic? They're way sharper than the cutters for steel. I would try an up/down cut endmill, it has short upwards cutting flutes for bottom and down cutting flutes for top so it won't leave a burr to either edges
@@MF175mp Yeah there are specialized carbide cutters for almost any application, they really pay off for regular jobs. For one offs having a sharp HSS endmill flying around can do wonders.
When I first started out , I bought a top-notch threading tool, inserts etc. Then seen an old school, Armstrong threading tool on eBay for 25 dollars. Now the Armstrong hss is my go to threading tool. But it only fits in one of my lathes. Very satisfied with my eBay purchase .
Two weeks ago I was at a shop that recently bought 4 brand new DMGs but they are using HSS tools. Yeah that still happens...
Don't forget about down cutting endmills. You can pinch the work in a normal vise and leave a huge stickout or overhang and only support with a machinist jack. The cutter pushes down and the vise stops the twist.
Don't forget about M42 cobalt tooling. The quest in this trade has always been about practical economics and being thrifty.
I’m cutting stainless steel, and other steels including some with super hard flame cut crust, the HSS Rippa 20mm is outlasting the carbide, it’s also only a 1/4 of the price at £36, tbf it does have a coating on it but still super cheap.
that work hardened rough shit is notorious for slamming carbide into it's own grave. HSS has enough give to flex on interrupted cuts where carbide would probably shit itself.
We made the change to high speed machining when I took over programing and setup. It's been a learning process. to say the least.
High speed machining will work in older machines but your spindle bearings might not handle it. Short cycles, sure, but anything that takes time I would slow the RPM down and adjust the feed accordingly.
When programming, try both high speed paths and traditional. On occasion you will find the traditional path is faster.
Love your videos, but this one seems to have the voice a bit too low compared to the others, don’t get me wrong I like the sound of the machine, just it seemed to overpower the voice level. Edit it’s mostly just the first half.
It's amazing that hss tools cost more than carbide in some applications. I use a hss drill to put pilot holes in ceramic.
Im in one of these shops who dont understand what good cam software is worth, they dont even have any -.- i have been fighting for this stuff since i was a first year apprentice. Now five years later, i feel like im finally close to some results... Wish me luck in the comming days friends, its gonna be a battle.
Well, show them this video 😂
@@barrysetzer wont work, they too busy looking for people who want to work for them, cause even newcommers can see that these guys stupid.
Good luck in the coming days.
Tool steel tool steel
You are my friend
You will not break
You will not bend
We use carbide exclusively, but on a 1995 Toyoda horizontal or a 1988 Okuma Howa, they don't feed that fast and max spindle speed is 10 - 15k. I do my best at reprogramming, but at the end of the day, the bearings are still shot and the turrets are still out of alignment. I do miss running newer machines so much...
I make the carbide cutters for the machine shop I work in. We have a mix of 60s machines all the way up to a new 5 axis huge machine centre. Heavy speed4 machine
Most of the cutters I make are for stupidly tight tolerance jobs. I had a cutter come back because it was 0.004mm out 4 bastard micron Not a chance we could do it with hhs.
Great video, why is the block so large and the machine mills it smaller....start with a smaller block and save time..
Hss cobalt is where it's at for drills in some applications. I've been running them hard in 316ss with zero issues. Carbide just chips and breaks
I currently work in a shop that the 'old timers' run carbide at HSS speeds. I understand manual machines not being able to handle it but the CNC with 10k spindle running maybe 1k revs.
I worked at a place where I would’ve been, and have been yelled at by the management for doing stuff like this. What an uphill battle I’ve been through making improvements over the years. Glad I don’t work there any longer.
When machining aluminum, I always use 2 flute HSS end mills. So did everyone else in the shop of 40 machines.
hi nathiandavault have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.
HSS is the only way to go for quartz and plastics. It has the capacity to be much, much sharper than cemented binders.
Don't know nothing about matching, biut this was an awsome great vid.
Fantastic story. Loved listening
Gratitude Team TITAN.....
Grand Rising Cosmic Star's
Period Point Blank
Hello Barry I have learned more from you than anybody I have worked with. It would be a privilege to work alongside you. Keep up the great work and great videos.
Hi Gary! You should come visit us sometime! I have a shirt with your name on it!
I want a shirt too :)
One thing I have never understood about these special coatings on carbide cutters, is that the coating on the cutting edge wears immediately upon the first cut. I'm talking about the cutting edge, you know, the part that cuts, the part that matters most. The coating is gone immediately.
If your coating wears out immediately, there is something you're doing wrong. Could be using the wrong coating for the application, you're having chemical reactions in the workpiece material, or you're running way way too high of a cutting speed.
@@pummppkinn If not immediately, within a few seconds. I am speaking of the cutting edge where it meets the metal in the cut. It wears immediately on any coated end mill. If you look at it under magnification, the coating on the very edge will be gone.
@@rayfletcher8759 if the coating wears off as far as you described, your feed rate is probably far too low.
On carbide mills the minimum feed rate is 1/200 of the tool diameter per cutting edge, the minimum cutting speed on mild steel should be around 150 - 200 m/min.
Normal feed rates in mild steel can be as high as 1/100 of the diameter per cutting edge at 50% overlap.
Don't care your carbide tools to death!
Blue chips are perfect for carbide milliing.
I was a Universal Miller many years ago ,seeing these high tech machines is light years away from how I worked, everything was hands on from a paper touch to a feeler gauge.
How thing change.
It looks like the
Terminators are on the way.
hi mikehopkins have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.
Beginning at 0:40, why is the radius interrupted by the bump in the middle until the radius takes its final form? Reduced engagement of the cutter?
I'm not a machinist, just very interested as an ME
My boss (epitome of old school machinist) is a big fan of HSS. He believes that HSS end mills are sharper than carbide end mills since they’re softer and grind easier and I’m like dude I can literally SEE the edge on this brand new hss end mill shining at me like a fucking spider web whereas the carbide end mills all have perfect edges. But yeah the resilience of hss definitely has a place in the imperfect job shop world. We’re not always working with pretty new materials.
Dude……tell that guy to get a life.
The only situations I can think of where high speed is better is when the machine can't achieve high enough speeds, isn't rigid enough (mainly a problem on older dovetail cnc conversions etc.) The carbide will most likely fare better in short term, but the slack will cause it to wear with abnormal rates. And when cutting soft materials. Of course you can get specialized carbide for said materials, but common hss fares better on than "traditional" carbide bits.
I wish the rest of the industry thought like you guy's do at Titan! "Invest in your tooling and your people!"
HSS my first choice for plastics not so much for anything else unless I'm doing less than 4-5 pcs.
Greetings. What is the difference between lateral step and stepover?
Each tool has its use. HSS does have it's use in a modern machine shop.
Stop cussing at me 😂
Nope. HSS is only for tapping and for deep drilling without inner cooling.
All other jobs can be done in a fraction of the time with carbide tools.
What would be a good choice for desktop/ hobbist cnc machine ? Or would a 3d printer be a better option ?
Back in the day I was the new machinist who introduced my workplace into HSM toolpaths with solid carbide tooling and high feed milling with insert cutters.
Machines were literally moving 5x faster and they even sounded better even though most of them were just light duty fadals and haas VMCs
And this was one of those shops where boss told machinist not to run 15k spindle at 15k and limit rapid rates to 50% so that machines don't wear out.
Been there!!!
Shampoo is better! I go on first and make the hair smooth! I'm guessing that was the link between title and thumbnail.
High speed is better with conventional machines as they hold up to vibration better. They also wear in a linear fashion so you can bore bearing holes ect with great accuracy.
Excellent video 💪
I am a simple man, i see new Titan video i press like. : D
I do that, too hahahaha
10000 ÷ dia = HSS
Carbide multiply × 15 thats a rule I follow , B A Barry KEEP on BOOMING on
I don’t even know the difference between HSS and carbide?…..I know carbide is more brittle and more expensive thats about it lol. Man I have a lot to learn still!
Dude!!!!! CARBIDE, ALWAYS
Carbide can produce blue chips all day long without wearing off quickly.
On HSS you run 30 m/min in mild steel, with carbide tools 200/min is no problem.
Also you can run higher feed rates (always calculated in feed per flute).
How much an hour to program mastercam and run machine. Been doing this 15 years . Just want to know what's out there.
Is that "Peel Milling" towards the 3:50 mark?
I have a job where I need to pocket out a cup basically with a stud in the center. It's 316SS. We are currently using the Harvy TE 5/8 endmills. Working fairly well. I think it's a chip evacuation issue that's causing breakage.
Reminds me of all the woodturning hacks uploading five minutes of comically sped-up video showing them roughing a spindle that somebody with a little practice would get to round in ten seconds.
HSS tool have their place and in just this sort of application where deflection is a problem.
Best thumbnail award has to go to Barry!
Hahahaha TAKE THAT Jessie
good video titans
Ive been less than a year learning machining/mastercam programming... We use metric and i never see anything over like 900mm/m feedrate, how the hell do you figure these things out without getting into trouble with bosses/trainers
Depends on material type.
I am a novice cnc machinst but happy with manual. Where do I start? I'm looking for free software that you can learn and simulate codes
Mastercam has what they call their "home learning edition." It's great to learn, it's free and does just about everything the standard does, but you can't post any gcode
And we actually offer a free version of mastercam. Just sayin
Ohh man! You are a great programmer!! I'm also struggling reaming holes using different sizes to reach the final diameter. I was thinking to give a try using a boring tool. But what would be your approach? Crossing my fingers to you to read my comment!! Thank you very much
You cant beat a boring head. But I HAVE held +/- .0002 with a reamer!
And fyi, i read every single comment. Even ones from several weeks ago 😜
@@barrysetzer thank you!! You are great at all aspects! My respects to you and keep the hard working. Thanks for teaching us.
Machining UHMW a lot recently and it absolutely destroys carbide. HSS works just as good and cost way less
@Dan Nguyen it makes it dull fast and doesn't change the finish. UHMW machining all about a razor sharp edge high rpm and heat evacuation
I'm so sad. I broke 3 1/4in 5 flute endmill in one day. 1st one was speed and feeds are off for 1012c steel. 5000rpm where it should be 3000rpm. I broke the 2nd one by rerunning the same part. Little did I know, their was a piece of carbide lodge in the steel and broke the 2nd one. The 3rd one I thought the clamp was secure and when the cut was finished, it moved the clamp due to high vibration and hit my endmill and broke it. Luckily I wasn't fired but I would've fired myself too as well. For making rookies mistake.
my employer wouldn't even buy a cam software license for me 🤣 we're a maintenance department and use a Hurco VMX30i mill to make spare parts or to make changes to parts of our production machines. it's 4 of us who operate the mill, it's not constantly running, as we're not "production" we just occasionally need it. only one of us has a CAM software on his computer, the rest is programming by hand via the WinMax software on the controlpanel of the machine.
Send him this video!
@@barrysetzer no use. they already decided to gradually close down the plant til 2028, and move production to eastern europe. german workforce is too expensive in the eyes of investors. my boss is saving every penny of "hard expense" he can, so he still qualifies for his annual bonus until that date. they already let off 800 people.
@@TheWolvesCurse Of you work as described, there's no wonder why your production is too expensive.
@@norbertfleck812 the production department is separate from maintenance. this company is specialized in injection molding, bonding LCD screens and making entire tachometer units for cars. production actually goes relatively well. if you ever owned a german made car, it's very likely you had one of our products. the driving cost is the hourly rate of the staff. a production mechanic, depending on experience and age has an hourly salary between 18€ and 25€ plus bonuses for late shifts, night shift and working on sundays. a worker in romania, serbia or other countries where production will be sent to, would make about a quarter of that. spread that saving over 3000 workers, and 21 shifts per week, and it's a pretty decent amount of money.
I was hoping for more than 20 seconds about a specific use for HSS and then the rest was a story about HSM and carbide based on the title. I would like to know some of the specific uses other than milling parts with garbage/unpredictable inclusions. There as you said are a lot of myths out there. I occasionally have opportunity to pick up HSS tools second hand. I also am considering can I resharpen them since much of my work is done with the end.
Bro!!!!
You can resharpen carbide tools as well.
There's no reason to waste your machine time with HSS.
HSS is only suitable for deep drilling when you don't have an internal high pressure cooling. Also tapping is usually a job for HSS tools.
@@norbertfleck812 I will eventually need to find a place for that. I am mostly a hobby person not a pro. I have nothing but respect for the CNC Titans.I keep hearing HSS is more tolerant of heat? I was thinking shop sharpening vs sending the tool out. I'm mostly working in wood so while I have some 1/2 and 3/8 tools I generally can't get the S&F high enough to do the CL suggested by the manufacturer. I'm getting to metal in a year or so, it's just a process and making mistakes on the CNC router does not put my friend on the CNC mill out of production for a few days re-calibrating the machine. I liked how they discussed inclusions breaking tools, and I would rather have an old HSS find the metal in the slab before the good carbide mill does.
@@rpatrick2 HSS can bear temperature up to 300°C, Carbide up to 700°C without getting dull immediately.
The only thing Carbide hates are temperature shocks like running dry at high temperatures and then being flushed with water. This can occur with a fraction of a second, when you only have water on one side.
@@norbertfleck812 Thanks. It's hard to find this information. I know with wood we are told the tool should be warm at the most after the cut. Though not having the beast machines in some of the Titan videos it's hard to get to the CL the manufacturer wants. I did feel the pain of I think it is this video or another one with 90% RDOC and 1/2dia ADOC and 100IPM. "you know that's a 4KW spindle right?" Then I start throwing chips like a cigarette boat.
Every machine shop need a Barry, including me I'm still a bit on the conservative side.
Steppinp up with reamers .002 at a time wtf the kind of shit people come up with 😂😂😂 sounds like my old shop
Why does this shop sounds identical to my old one to a T. Some people
Main problem as usual is state of machines. Old and not maintaned haw a habit of vibrating carbide to death.
Rigidity is as we all know the main thing.
There is something even beter then carbide...
But it brakes even easier, daimond or even beter boron carbide.
Loved the daimond, finish is mirorr...
From machinists who predominately work with plastics; HSS tools are far better than carbide or indexable tools.
I clicked just for the thumbnail 🤣🤣
Lol, that photo was just me trying to make the film guys laugh! I gotta make sure i remember that the cameras are always rolling
Cardboard is better than High Speed Steel and Carbide.
Is there a reason the beginning material is so much bigger? That seems like a lot of waste, when you could get a piece that's only 1/2 inch bigger than the finished product? I'm not trying to be rude. This is a genuine question.
I 100% clicked because of that thumbnail hahaha
Bwahaha yeah, i have skills at looking stoopit
Even the veterans have something to learn from the younger guys
If your machine maxes out at 6000 rpm you can use HSS on most materials. At the speeds your talking about takes quilty machinist that track the wear and change out tools at the proper time.
Over 6000 rpm you better be using tool holders without set screws and balanced holders with through the spindle high pressure coolant . Machines with tool management wear and breakage detection. Your programming department should be running crash detection software. Running at though speeds requires more technology higher tooling costs and trained personnel Then the days of HSS cutters .
6000 rpm is perfectly fine for Carbide tools in mild steel. In stainless you hardly go as high.
We do not have internal cooling on any of our CNC milling machines, but we use HSS only for drilling, tapping and reaming.
In short holes (up to 3×D) we use Carbide drills anyways.
HSS is also typically better than carbide for cutting plastics
Definitely not. Use uncoated carbide tools rated for Aluminium - they run perfectly and never get dull.
In POM we even use "Universal" carbide mills (TiAlN coated) and the surface is perfect.
@@norbertfleck812 at least in my experience, we've had great luck in using HSS for plastics like teflon and delrin. Like you said, if you get super sharp carbide tools for aluminum they work well but we've always had better luck with HSS in plastics.
People who worked like 30+ years on metal production lanes said to me that machining soft materials is better with softer tools. Like if you want to machine AL u should use HSS mill because it is going better with better with less sounds and vibration and parts get better surface finish. Is it true? Im not totally sure till today, because it sounds not logical but people experienced this on their own and gave me advices. It's not my opinion. We can discuss that matter.
That's nonsense. The right Carbide tools work perfectly in soft material from plastic over brass and copper to Aluminum.
In Aluminium we run up to 500 m/min (if the machine allows it) and feed rates up to 1/100 tool diameter per flute.
Even on wood, we only use carbide tools, as they last much longer and allow extreme speeds (25,000 rpm)
So carbide and manual milling is a big NO-NO?
Let’s talk about machining stainless and show a video of aluminium .
Well, what the hell material are you cutting? Time and place for every cutter.