Mad Love: When Batman: The Animated Series Grew Up
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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#batman #harleyquinn #batmantheanimatedseries #joker
As a teenager, it blew my mind that they were able to get away with this story on a "kid's show." It changed my perspective on "it's made for kids" as an excuse. Just because kids are the target audience doesn't mean you can't have dark themes, great characters, and, above all, a great story.
Dini and Timm got away with what they did in the show because they basically wrote the episodes even darker than they wanted, knowing the producers would want them to pull back those notes, leaving them to have the story close to what they originally wanted. They even used certain censorships to make some things even darker, like using the "no killing" rule for children's cartoons as a reason to find somewhat darker imagery, like Joker's venom leaving victims with permanent smiles.
It’s why BTAS was amazing. Censorship didn’t make it worse, it made it better. They proved that even back then with censors watching over every frame, you can still make mature stories.
I’ve started watching Spider-Man TAS, and it really makes me appreciate what they did with BTAS, because man it feels like marvel didn’t try nearly as hard to push the censors to their limits like BTAS did.
@@jasonkeith2832 Using restricted rules in your own favor like that is genius, I love it!
@@CamTheWarlockthat’s a good point. I think censorship is like a lot of things. It’s not about having it, it’s about what you do with it.
in all fairness this was a comic book, and by the time it got animated into that "kids show", the team was on a different network that had not as much restrictions as the original network sooo
The last line of "It felt like a kiss" is a reference to the song 'He Hit Me (And it Felt Like a Kiss)' by the Crystals. The song is from the perspective of an abuse victim justifying the actions of the abuser as being done out of love. Pretty spot on use of it by Paul Dini.
Excellently annotated! Even though I didn't make the connection on my own, *immediately* after reading this I knew exactly which track (though if anyone had ever asked me I'd never have been able to give info) and heard it playing on my mental jukebox.
Thanks for fleshing this out and highlighting the detail so accents like these can be fully appreciated. (It's the writing equivalent of 'vaulted ceilings/extended pillars in Michelangelo's work in the Sistine Chapel) although prominent, it's not until you realize what the artist has done, in one of the most subtle aspects, that makes you capable of truly appreciating the craftsmanship and planning applied to the whole.
@@searchingfororionyeah, it started playing in my head too. It elevates the scene a lot, especially the lines like “and it didn’t hurt me” because she’s convincing herself it wasn’t all that bad so hard right there even though she’s literally still got a broken arm.
thumbs up.
smart writing from Paul Dini.
What made early Harley Quinn such a great character is the contrast between her and the Joker's absurd comic villain personas and the crushing, painful mundanity of their abusive relationship. Her wackiness can be funny sometimes, but the core of her character is just how tragically _ordinary_ her suffering is.
It’s like those villain sidekicks in comedic series that get constantly beaten up by the main villain, except here it has an actual reason being a mental illness
@@Cigmacicawhat’s Harley’s syndrome called again? Stockholm?
"Harley's Holiday" is more my jam. It is a truly brilliant, funny (Joker-free) and even genuinely poignant episode. It shows Harley Quinn in a somewhat sympathetic light and gives Batman one of his best scenes from the series ("I had a bad day too once...")
Ya the end of that episode was great, but one of the parts I found most poignant, was near the beginning when she's buying the dress. She is genuinely being good but due to years of institutionalization, she's missing certain important social cues, like in this case the fact that the dress still had the security tag attached. For most a simple misunderstanding but for her, hearing an alarm and seeing a security guard approaching her, triggered her fight/flight from years of trauma, which all spiraled into disaster.
@@zenmastermtlthat always makes me cry tbh, it’s such a good representation of PTSD
The end of Harley's Holiday is matched only by the end of "Paging the Crime Doctor".
It’s such a wholesome and cute episode
funny how batman manages to twist something negative alan moore wrote into something relatively positive
I definitely fee like Mad Love is the seed that lead to modern takes on Harley like her animated show and her solo comics series.
Hamill's delivery of "You always take shots from people who just don't get the joke!" is perfect. Top 10, maybe top 5, Mark Hamill Joker lines.
If Dr. Leland had been a bit more genre-aware: "Wait. _Harley_ Quinzell? _Harley Quinn_ ? Nope. Absolutely nope. You're not going anywhere near the Joker. That's just asking for trouble."
Reminds me of Batman: Black and White giving Harvey Dent a therapist who falls in love with him, only for it to later be revealed that she has an extremely unhinged twin who ALSO is in love with Harvey. Needless to say, it doesn't go well for anyone.
6:07 I own a copy of this book, but never noticed (or I forgot) the image of Babs and Buster Bunny hanging over the fireplace. Brilliant.
That’s a good easter eggs since that’s what Paul Dini and Bruce Timm worked on before they got the job for _Batman: The Animated Series._ And you made me understand the reference pointing it out after all these years.
Thank you. I thought I was the only one that noticed.
The dumbest thing I ever did was get so upset on Harley's behalf during this episode of Batman TAS, seeing the same thing my father had done to my mom, and then ended up in that same kind of relationship myself. I took so long to see it for what it was, just like Harley. But when she gets with Ivy, it's more like my current one. They are there for and improve one another. We all learn and grow.
Harley in a nightie...the Joker really IS crazy to ignore that.
Dude ignores and abuses her when she surprises him with a giant cream pie (which she hid in)…
Truly a fool.
No shit sherlock! The Joker is insanely obsessed with Batman to the point all his crimes are converging to destroying him.
This is part of what's so satisfying about the Harley Quinn show. She does break free, not all at once, but over the course of the first season. It's great to see the character tread new ground in that show.
No. It really isn't. Not like that. I could see Harley transfering her obsession to batman or Nightwing.
So many 90's iconic comic book characters are getting their 30th anniversary lately and I'm crying inside feeling so damn old. 😢
Her last line is a song reference - "He Hit Me (It Felt Like A Kiss)".
Harley's not always handled well as a character, I think it's just too damn easy to take her character in the "whacky crazy sexy" direction by lesser writers who completely miss the heart of her story. Sadly I think that tendency and the messy portrayals of her in the DCFU have hurt the character and her perception a lot. But when she is done well it always hits hard. My favorite through line with her has always been the story of her breaking free from the Joker and finding new life and actual love with Poison Ivy. I honestly wish that version of her story would become more commonly embraced and we can finally stop pushing her character back into just being Joker's iconic henchwoman almost ever time.
Yes, I’d love for it to become a new status quo rather than a sisyphean task for her to repeatedly achieve
I think the very important bit about Harley's "sexy moments" in TAS and these comics is that they were active choices driven by desperation on the actual in-universe character's part. She is choosing to trade her main outfit for a nightie and crawls out of a pudding in her desperate attempts of trying to romance the Joker who in response coldly ignores her at best and slaps her around at worst. This is the writers making a point, that Harley tries everything in her power to try and make this relationship go the way she wants while the Joker has no interest in entertaining her unless it suits him. This *isn't* the writers indulging a sexy madwoman fetish (yep, that's a thing) on their or the audience's end, it's there to show that even when Harley is doing everything to make herself appealing for the Joker, he still treats her like crap at the end of the day. There was storytelling to it, it was a completely different story than having a character always dress up in revealing outfits and strike sexy poses just for the sake of sexy.
However, I do dislike the implication that Harley only got her psychology degree by sleeping around which some versions including this comic (kind of) went with. Unlike her being a gymnast champion (explains her agility) or her motivations for coming to Arkham Asylum, it just doesn't add anything to her character other than making her morally reprehensible, as if the rest of the story wasn't good enough for us to get that. Oh, never mind her going into Arkham for deeply selfish sensationalist ambitions that eventually come to bite her until she became a literal criminal, did you know she was also *gasp* a slut?!? If anything it subtracts from both her and the Joker by implying that she was merely incompetent. I'm all for her having a checkered past before the Joker, but I think her being genuinely competent as a psychiatrist is a large part of what makes Joker's manipulation of her so intriguing, because it shows that it can happen to anyone, even someone who is trained in the matter, if they meet the wrong person.
The Joker in this is more like an actual serial killer than I’ve ever seen before. The way how he rapidly changed to violent and yet still plays it as Harley’s fault only to immediately try woo her again until he gets violent again
It’s scarily accurate
6:22 - love that Babs and Buster are in the background hanging out ;)
I have a theory that they’re faking their death by hanging as a way to disguise their identities before going back to ACME Falls.
Also: "Harley and Ivy" is another good HQ story. It's "Mad Love" before "Mad Love" and a clever take on Thelma and Louise that explores the dynamics of some of Batman's rogues gallery that had never been done in or out of Batman comics at that point. It was also back when Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy were treated as actual fleshed out characters rather than fetish-y bait for horny teenage boys.
They’re fleshed out characters now. Check out the Harley Quinn show
@@scibus2593also, when it comes to those two as a pairing, it's not just boys enjoying it. X3
I'm glad the bit about Harley sleeping through college was removed, I feel like it takes away her merit as an actual psychiatrist when that's one of the more interesting parts of her character.
I think that was the point though. She *wasn't* a good psychiatrist. She was an opportunist who broke the rules by devaluing herself to a type of currency.
I never took the "sex for grades" flashback as a puritanical damning of her actions, but an insight into her underlying lack of self worth and insecurity that the Joker would later amplify and weaponize against her. It also illustrates that, unlike a devoted physician, she never had any ethics or respect for her field of study, which makes her swift turn to criminality a bit less of a whiplash.
Fun fact the difference between a clown and a jester is that a clown makes a fool of themselves while a jester makes a fool of others. Which is fitting since Harley pulling off Joker plans basically shows how much better she is at him. Joker is just jealous that Harley can do anything he does but better.
Prior to New 52, Harley ended up moving on from Joker in a healthy manner and was explored by Paul Dini in his Detective run to show her progress in recovery (Unlike her New 52/Rebirth counterpart who still tries to keep maniac old abuse self under the guise of Deadpool-esque character.)
The New Batman Adventures doesn’t get as much love as it deserves
I think the only real misstep in the story was the moment with the teacher, but for a different reason than others might see. Harleen was always someone prone to obsession, but in college she was obsessed with her vision of the future as a world-famous psychiatrist with famous clients and a writing career. She was also always willing to fudge the moral lines to get what she wanted. So on occasions when her obsessive fascinations caused her to slip on in her assignments, she took surprising routes to restore her desired identity.
The problem is that the comic didn't make any of that clear, so it's entirely possible to read what was on the page as saying that Harleen wasn't smart but cheated her way into a degree. Which is the exact opposite of Harleen Quinzel. She knew what she wanted the outcome to be, and she was willing to take steps others wouldn't to fix any minor setbacks. The way her mind worked, she might very well have plied the teacher with favors just to avoid taking an A- for turning her paper in late.
Now this is the Harley we should have had in Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League. A real character with real problems, who can't see her own terrible circumstances, and is meant to be pitied by the audience.
This, along with the episode _Harley and Ivy,_ are in many ways the foundations of the modern version of the character. I'm curious, Steve, what you think about Stjepan Sejic's work with the Harley/Ivy dynamic, and the _Harleen_ run that he wrote and illustrated.
RIP to the GOAT animated batman.
I really appreciate that in her own cartoon series, it takes the combined efforts of Ivy and Riddler (who owed Ivy a favor) to lay a fake trap for Batman just to lure Joker into a choice of choosing whether to drop Batman in to the vat of acid, or Harley in the vat of acid. Joker choose to save Batman and sacrifice Harley, and she gets dropped into what she, and the viewers, very quickly realize is actually champagne. All this effort just for Ivy to finally convince her friend that the Joker doesn't love her, never loved her, and his only true obsession is Batman. This then kicks off the rest of the series and allows Harley to grow, not only has her own person but as an independent character unshackled from the Joker; which matches the attitudes of creators and consumers alike over the past decade where Harley is concerned.
Notice how the Joker gave Harley a red rose first, representing love, and a pink rose last, symbolizing friendship with the possibility of romance. Always the kidder, that one.
Mad love was definitely a great Batman story that pretty much established Harley Quinn's origin, cemented Harley as a more effective threat to Batman than even Joker, and just shows how horrible Harley's relationship with the Joker truly is. It is still hard to watch Joker knock Harley out a window just because she successfully captured Batman. It's a dark story, but it's still a great story.
There is actually an extra layer to this relationship that is often missed. At the end this borderline genius woman trained in psychiatry who clearly knows she was manipulated and used and in danger of being killed and totally not loved at all is ready to give it up, sees a flower and a simple wish she get well (no claim of love or an apology or a promise to not try to kill her again, none of the usual manipulative stuff). And she is instantly ecstatic and happy to continue the relationship. Why?
That is because Joker did actually give Harley something she desperately wanted and could not get without his help. A way to stop being Harlene Quinzel and to be the person she actually wanted to be, which is the Harley Quinn post Joker. Harley did not leave Joker because she suddenly realized how abusive he was, she left because she was finally ready to be Harley Quinn without Joker being there to tear down and suppress all the Harlene Quinzel stuff she hated.
Basically she hated herself and how she was and wanted to be someone entirely different. Go from someone trapped in a life she hates to someone who does whatever she wants just for fun without caring about rules or common sense. And the reason Joker could recognize this and trivially convince his victim he can give her the freedom she wants is because this is exactly what Joker himself has done. He has a backstory, sometimes we even know it, but that person no longer exists, there is only Joker. Interestingly where Harley killed her old self by obsessing over Mr J, Joker used his obsession with Batman to be Joker and avoid reverting to the man he does not want to be. We do actually see this dependency sometimes in the comics when Batman is in danger of being killed by someone else or is temporarily believed to be dead. Just see his reaction to Harley trying to kill Batman in this story. And why exactly was Batman so sure that getting Harley to call Joker would save him?
Just to be clear, the abuse and manipulation is real and Harley is still a victim. There is just an extra layer of mutual awareness and purpose under it that real world abusive relationships lack. His actions only making sense and working in the context of the fictional narrative is a key trait of Joker as character. It is really just a way for writers to make stories work with a character that is both evil and chaotic but over the years it has become part of the character.
The reason Batman knows this about Joker and why Joker can use Batman to be Joker, is because Batman and Catwoman are actually also people who hated their old weak self and used "silly costumes" to become someone they wanted to be. The difference is that Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle have people and things they care about (varies with version) and did not feel trapped by their old self, so they did not feel the need to totally erase their old identity and are not scared of falling back to their old self if they drop the act. They really changed themselves and became stronger. Nowadays same is true for Harley which is why Mr J became unnecessary.
Holy goat nipples bat thumb, this was an amazing video, the whole thing, but especially the last minute and a half was wonderfully well written and increasingly well said! I applaud you good sir.
Also, I have a friend who won’t leave an abusive relationship, but she’s already cut off contact with me because he’s isolating her from friendships.
Still have her number though, should I send her this video?
Depending on how deep people are into it, it can take a lot more than that for people to even begin to admit to themselves the situation is bad - let alone take any action to change it. I don’t think it’s a terrible idea to send it to her, unless her abusive spouse reads her messages, takes it the wrong way, and punishes her for it. But it probably won’t have much of an effect like you might be hoping.
The ending in BTAS was *BETTER* than the comic, because it's more introspective and subtracts Dr. Leland. In fact, Mad Love could be padded into a movie!
6:15 I don't know if it was intentional or purely by accident, but the Joker's line in that panel is almost exactly the same as Morticia's retort to Wednesday's same complaint about Puggsley in one of Charles Addams' cartoons for the New Yorker.
Classic. Iconic. The TV episode, the comic, AND Harley Quinn herself. The perfect Batman story... 😏
As a kid, I loved the episode so much that I bought the comic, some twenty years later it still the only comic I've ever read. It's also my favorite story that doesn't feature the Rogues socializing with each other(think "The Trial" & "Almost Got 'Im")
You should consider reading more comics / graphic novels. It's truly a wonderful medium for storytelling.
3:12 , well, she got it
Tim and Dini really were a dream team. It is a shame to hear that Tim has maybe drifted off the rails in recent years.
I'm trying to remember a limit series (I think) in which Bruce Tim was drawing the world from Harley's Looney Tunes point of view, with sporadic panels drawn by Kevin Nowlan, showing the events from a more grounded and gory point of view.
I wonder when this series will get around to the Best Gnort Story Ever? 🐶👍
Now I’m wondering if that inspired Pyro vision in TF2
I remember my friend showing me this when it came out - I got to the "rev up your Harley" panel and I said to him, "is it weird this is giving me a hard on?" and he was like "I know, right?!?!"
Given what the first Joker film did, I'm terrified that Folie a Deux would glorify their toxic relationship even more, which is sad given how well the Birds of Prey movie broke that cycle.
this is the only comic that i ever bought
I remember watching this episode as a kid and my poor mom trying to explain it to me.
Coldest and savage line ever made in the show 10:20
I'm sad that you couldn't see value of Harley Quinn and glad you finally did
8:34 One of my favorite lines was between that cut.
Joker, on the phone: Hmmm, yeah Batman huh.... *YOU HAVE WHO, TIED UP WHERE?!?!?!* * immediately cuts to Joker blasting across town in his car *
And imagining Penguin, Two Face and Riddler mocking him for being the boyfriend of the girl that killed Batman.
Mad Love was the series finale of New Batman Adventures, so they probably figured go all out on it
I wish to God they still wrote Batman stories like this.😢
10:25 this, thsi right here is the moment where batman for the first time unbroke joker
They made an episode on this in s4
So... what was the version of the final line in the animated version?
great video
I hate what they did with Harley, and didn't like Harley when she first appeared. It was Mad Love that save her. The problem with Harley, is that it distract from the Joker. All attention must be towards the Joker, atleast that is how he thinks. all his minions were anonymous. Just goons. background characters. Mad love turns the point of what Joker was. he didn't just kill. SHooting Batman was never the point. I guess Heath Ledgers Joker understands this. Joker doesn't want to Kill batman. he wants to corrupt him. I also didn't like they made Barbara Gordan a handicap. But the point was, that Joker didn't kill his father. He wanted the torture COmmissioner Gordan.
Punchline is better I feel. Joker really should’ve just killed Harley and been done with it all. It would’ve been interesting to see how Batman would deal with criminals killing other criminals just because.
I still love that in every version of this.. Batman admits the truth to the Joker stabbing his ego... And then twisting it when he says 'puddin'
Batman vagueposting about "I had to convince her" kind of scuffs the comic a bit. Was it legit the number of stories Joker has doled out over the years or was he just in detective fashion creating a profile with base speculation? But the main pissing contest point was legit the main arc of The Venture Bros, which gave them more than they bargained for in terms of where the plot could go.
You could argue that Mr. J's enraged reaction to that final word indicated some homophobia...except that the Joker in many of his incarnations - including this one - includes homoerotic undertones in many of his encounters with other men, including Batman. It's crazy that Joker's orientation veers from ultra-masculine to gay to completely sexless, depending on who's telling the story.
Ah yes, the old thing of blaming the dude your boyfriend spends all his time on for harming your relationship, not the boyfriend's obsession with his man-crush.
bro's just bisexual
I binged the documentary "Stolen Youth" last night. One of the victims was a medical resident pursuing a career in psychiatry before she fell in love with a psychotic con man/cult leader who ruined her life and destroyed her career. I kept thinking of Harley Quinn. Fortunately, she has a happier ending.
“When BMTAS grew up”
Didn’t even know that was possible. Balls were already dropped day one
Guess it grew an extra pair?
Mad Love is a masterpiece, regardless of which version you're experiencing. My biggest gripe with the animated adaptation is that it used the updated character designs for the characters, which I never liked nearly as much as the original Batman TAS designs. Joker's black sclera/white pupil eyes and lack of lipstick just never looked good to me.
Still, it's a fantastic episode and a far better adaptation than I think would get made today.
I grew up watching the Animated Series and in my teen years and this is one of those episodes that stuck with me long into adulthood. I recall being frustrated at Harley for not seeing what we, the audience, could see so clearly. How horrible the Joker was treating her. Revisiting the episode later in life, it didn't frustrate me, it saddened me. Any media that can pull out such emotions, make me care about ink on a page, is good media.
It's an astonishingly realistic portrayal of domestic violence and toxic relationships.
I think the "poison him right back" joke was lifted from one of Charles Addams' cartoons.
Harley Quinn is pretty much the go-to example of what can be done in storytelling when characters are allowed to move forward in their lives. She went from background character in the gang, to major supporting character, through her breakup with the Joker, and out the other side to earning her own animated show. On the surface she's just a themed sidekick for the Joker, but her evolving story and persona made her great. It makes me think hard about how much better the Batman is when he has his family around him (seriously, read Batman Family Adventures online, it's pretty great). It also makes me wonder how much more interesting Superman might have been back in the Golden Age if Siegel and Shuster had been allowed to publish the story where Lois Lane learned his identity and became a full accomplice in his adventures back in the early 1940s.
I have to disagree about the darkness building subtly. As soon as Joker screams at Harley about who gets to deliver gags, I was like, "Oh no..."
Thinking about it, I really hope current publications of the book come with a content warning. Probably not super necessary, but I hope.
That’s part of why it’s such a cleverly placed red flag, imo.
But yeah, the comic clearly isn’t _quite_ as intelligent about it as some in the audience are, given the colleague gloating at her and the bit about sexual favours.
Oh god... 🤦
Between Harley Quinn from the Batman series and Cheetah from the Justice League series, 90s kids have a rough and confusing adulthood.
Harley's last line in the comic is a reference to the Phil Spector-produced "He Hit Me (It Felt Like a Kiss)" by the Crystals, a TRULY fucked up song from the 1960s.
Wait...in Harley's fantasy...DID THEY KILL BUSTER AND BABS BUNNY? (No relation.)
Yeah, it's an in-joke.
I maintain that if anyone should kill the Joker, it should be Harley instead of Batman. He made her crazy as a joke, now he has to take the punchline.
I know you're not a musical fan, but the "It felt like a kiss" line is a reference to Roger and Hart's "Carousel," in which an abusive husband dies attempting a robbery and is given a chance to redeem his soul by coming back years later to secretly help guide his daughter through a difficult time in her life. The daughter is aware from town gossip of the sort of man her father was, but her mother continues to defend him - saying his physical abuse could sometimes "feel like a kiss." In the original Hungarian non-musical production, though things end on a hopeful note for the daughter, the man fails to redeem himself in the eyes of heaven and is dragged away to eternal torment. In the musical they let him in, which is of course a total cop-out on the writing end for a more feel-good ending in spite of running counter to the moral message of the rest of the piece and as a result implicitly condoning domestic violence and abuse (especially because the final line is a repeat of the "like a kiss" quote), but which has at least forced directors and casts of modern productions to be creative in how they play it to find some more complex approach without just changing the ending, as that's usually legally forbidden for licensed productions.
You all can flame me for this, but I still haven't read the Mad Love comic. I've seen the episode. I agree, this IS the most important Harley Quinn story.
Seeing this episode for the first time it was pretty shocking as to how pitch black this got after Joker showed up
Batman has always been at it's best when exploring the darker side of the human psyche. to me it is the element the that elevates it above all of it's contemporaries.
It’s probably just me, but the description of Joker and Harley’s state of mind, and their relationship starting at 13:39 really echoes to me “Sweet Potato Hitler” and his MAGA crowd. 🤷🏽♂️
Not just you.
Writing that one down
That art! So many comics today tend to use art that realllly goes down to the most fiddly details. Witness post-New 52 Flash. Far overdesigned. This though.... it's got so much life, so much motion because rather than seeing the seams on Joker's coat (and having bonkers amounts of needless seam and lines.) It's down to lines of action, nearly plastic shapes in character design, solid composition...... so very top tier. And the story? It was truly, deeply dark in a very human way, rather than the brand of grimdark that never really feels dark. I love this comic SO much.
6:14 nooooo not the tiny toons! 😂
That is a reference to how Batman The Animated Series destroyed the original Tiny Toon Adventures to the point it was cancelled... Till its reboot.
Arleen Sorkin will be missed. Rest in peace.
I love how the Batman Animated Series and Batman Beyond rack up quite a kill count in the show while still being a ''simple'' cartoon kids show ;p
If you want to see the Harley and Joker origin story expanded upon, Harleen by the amazingly talented Stjepan Sejic is a work of art.
I also love the new Harley Quinn Animated Series. The cast is great. The humour is great. It's my new favorite thing.
That bondage comic guy? I haven’t thought about his stuff in years. Should check that out.
@@kaitlyn__L yeah. That's the guy. :)
I love how they dialed it back for kids in the TV version of this same story.
Isn't it a shot-for-shot animation of the book? There's less blood, but they kept everything else. Try showing a clown smacking his girlfriend around on a kids' channel today..
Isn't it a shot-for-shot animation of the book? There is less blood, but they kept everything else.
The ~"recent" Harleen on the DC black label is a Masterpieces in my humble opinion.... and worth a read
I can just imagine Mark Hamill saying "Piranhas can't smile..." Oh, because he did, probably.
"He hit me and it felt like a kiss." 😢
Oh hey, I remember when this was more or less adapted to the animated series itself(after the design change the Superman crossover brought that Mickey Mouse'd the Joker for some reason). Not a bad version of it either actually, pretty certain they cut out the dentist office attack though for something else.
6:24 There's a hanged Buster and Babs Bunny(no relation) in the background next to the stuffed Batman head; if I remember correctly the writing team for Batman(among others) had a bit of a friendly feud going on with the Tiny Toons staffers and this was a jab at them obviously.
Ah. The 90s. Golden Era of Animation IMHO. 😁😁
Batman TAS was a huge part of my childhood, and even though I’d watched the 80s film and the Adam West version TAS defines Batman for me… thus for me Harley is integral to Batman. This episode is, was, and always will be a certified classic.
Wait, wasn't Mad Love the last (or near last) episode produced of the entire series (TAS and TNBA combined)?
One would think it had already been considered a mature show by that point - I know I did when I was younger, and I'm not even sure I could truly articulate what that meant at that age. I guess it's like the old Pornography/Art 'distinction' adage: "You know it when you see it"
Oh, you do comic content too?? Let's go!
You can tell the art from the Mad Love comic was probably used near-verbatim to storyboard the animated episode, though I find the comic version more attractive to look at, mostly 'cause I didn't care for the Joker's TNBA visual redesign.
I really hope this is what the new Joker movie is going to be about. Let Gaga do something more than just be depressed and boring like Phoenix did
the real world of how Harly came to be is cool, he herd her voice on a sope opera and was like oh I know, hired her, and here we or lol
Mad Love is an example of a exceptionally well crafted comic that had negative effects on the character as it was the book that made Harley into a punching bag for the Joker's abuse something that she only escaped from in the last few years. Like Killing Joke, it's also another step in DC transforming the Joker into the post child for the worst fanboy incel edgelords.
The animated Killing Joke was far better than the comic, if only because I didn't have to listed to Moore's clumsy, terrible dialogue through the WHOLE thing.
Hardly, that attempted affair between Batman and Batgirl that was thrown in grated and completely derailed and ruined that adaptation.
Harley Quinn is the Ahsoka Tano of Batman
I don’t think Batman fans ever hated Harley the way Star Wars fans hated Ahsoka early on.
Is curious how they managed to make her character grew. Normally, comic book character rarely has changes like her that work and stays with them.
I think that Joker's note to Harley saying "Feel better soon." instead of "get well soon" is really impactful in that he doesn't really care if she's _well,_ but instead stable enough to continue falling beneath him.
That sweet, sweet flat colour
i was the same way originally with Harley ... i found her to be obnoxious and annoying -- and her accent to be a little grating if im honest -- when i was a youth during the Batman Animated Series original run on tv ... it wasnt until i got older that my stance on her changed
To be honest about Harley, I find her a thin dimensional character. She needs someone else to play off of to make her own part work. Be it the Joker, Poison Ivy, or someone else. That said, both she and Mr J have been waaay overused in recent years. Time to give them both a long rest to make their impact more interesting in the future.
When I first bought Mad Love from my local comics shop, I loved the story and could feel the strain of the abusive relationship. I helped a friend escape from hers a long time ago and it was a tough time keeping her from going back. She won her personal battle and is now a strong and free woman with a future. ♥
As for Harley's final line in the story, it instantly brings to mind a little known song written by Carole King and Gerry Goffin about the abusive relationship endured by their babysitter-turned-singing star, Little Eva (The Loco-Motion). The song was titled He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss) and was recorded by The Crystals in 1962. Sadly, it wasn't a hit, probably for the dark idea behind the song, especially for the early 60s. Still, it's a powerful commentary from one side of an abusive 'love' story.
_"YOU HAVE _*_WHO_*_ TIED-UP _*_WHERE_*_ ?!?"_
Love this series of videos you’re doing great job
I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this but one of the many subtle differences between the comic and its televised adaptation is when in the former, Batman says that the Joker doesn't love anyone except _maybe_ himself, whereas in the latter he's less ambiguous: the Joker doesn't love anyone except himself. Whether this is significant is a matter of debate.
Definitely one of the greats!
The thing about this story that is so frequently missed is... Harley already existed before Harlene met the Joker. She made a point to come to Arkham, she has the costume and gear ready to go. She was already fixated on him. He had no clue, no real involvement beyond trying a sympathy ploy on the new girl.
It did a very good job of conveying that however she /seems/ she's more than just an extention of the Joker.
For all the abuse and the Joker's thing about breaking people, in the original version of their relationship... he had no agency in her creation at all. It wasn't actually about him at all. It was always, fundamentally, about her.
Exactly, she is a victim of her own mentality.