Zerno Z1 Grinder - How It Changed Home Espresso
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- What review or video do YOU want to see next on my channel?
The Zerno Z1 changed.... a lot... for home espresso hobbyists. Let's do a deep dive review into what makes this coffee grinder so special.
0:00 - Zerno Z1
1:23 - Doing Things Differently
2:21 - First Impressions
3:06 - Using it!
3:43 - Accuracy Aficionado
4:35 - Enthusiasts, Gather ‘Round
5:30 - Alignment - WHAT
6:57 - Stress, Sound and Retention Tests
8:09 - Zerno’s Secret Sauce
10:09 - Z1 V2 Updates
12:20 - Burr Business
13:46 - Yes, There Is A Downside
14:16 - Who Is It For?
A burr comparison video would be awesome…would be so helpful for a lot of people I believe
Like some others, I’d love to see a comparison video between the Zerno and the Philos. Throw in the DF64V and a Timemore for a complete vertical burr home grinder comparison.
One thing I’d like to see is a review of the basic and deep cleaning processes. In the basic process, we just need to clean the burrs and loose grounds when switching to a different bean. For a deep clean, we get into the nooks and crannies to remove the coffee that doesn’t circulate and can get rancid. Every grinder will take time for a deep clean, but the Philos seems especially handy for a basic cleaning. Having the adjustment at the back means that I don’t need to recalibrate it and there are no adjustment threads near the chamber.
I had an old Mazzer Mini with the clunk-clunk-clunk doser. Deep cleaning was nearly impossible! The Niche isn’t bad, but there is only a deep cleaning. The Philos seems like it would be a breeze for a quick clean between roasts.
The Zerno is endgame for me, not because I wouldn’t enjoy something with larger burrs or variable RPM, etc. but because of the build quality, the community, and the ability to continually upgrade to different 64mm burrs. I feel like those features are worth more than $1200.
You are absolutely not alone in this. Not that great value can’t be found in other grinders at lower price points, but these points stand.
What configuration do you get for $1200?
@@iwouldpayattentiona 7 months wait 😅
Or maybe longer.
Does anyone know if there are any Chinese copies or similar models of this?
Great review - I really enjoy when equipment is taken apart to see the inner workings. Thanks!
The Zerno and the Ascaso look like they are made for each other ❤
Loving it! Great review and advices! Honestly I also like very much this new approach with lots of b-roll and music. Keep up these great reviews and yeah I’d love a detailed 64mm comparison
Excellent review. To me, this is the single best-looking grinder I've ever seen. It's stunning, and from everything I've seen, performs as well as or better than any 64mm grinder on the market today. I'm currently on the waitlist, but it will likely be several months before my ship date hits.
I loved this video. It’s the first comprehensive review video of the Zerno I’ve seen (and after a LOT of searching. I just ordered a Lucca 75 bc I was ready for an upgrade and had absolutely no idea when my waitlist spot would come, but absolutely still want to have my hands on a Zerno eventually. I’d love to see some content comparing the HU to the Cast/Lab Sweet burrs.
This is so beautiful the perfection of the build makes me want to cry.
Great review Justin. Well done!
You just helped me pick my new grinder. Thx
This was such a great review!
I have the same setup, including HU burrs, as the white one in the video. The black chute on the earlier versions drove me nuts to look at when it wasn’t on a color-matched body. I bothered poor Vel every time I saw an Instagram pic of the white units with the black chute. It just cheapened the overall appearance and stuck out like a sore thumb. I was thrilled when he confirmed my batch would have a properly matched chute. The Z1 looks really nice paired with a white Linea Micra. Very pleased with the combo.
Killer combo! And yes, I like the color match!
I’ve absolutely loved my Lagom Mini - I’m a filter first brewer (with the occasional espresso using a 9Barista), but I really wanted to get into flat burrs to up the clarity in my brews.
I’ve got a Zerno being delivered this summer (batch 5) with MP and Brew burrs, absolutely cannot wait. Chose the Zerno primarily because it seemed to offer the most versatility and was competitive with the P64. Couldn’t help myself from throwing on a second burr set 😅
Good review with good advice!
Thank you!
I absolutely don’t need it, but it’s beautifully designed! Might grab one some day
Have a Zerno and for those considering it, one thing to make sure of is you have the counter depth. While it is very sleek and narrow, it’s also deeper than a p64 or others without the tilt. It’s a lovely lice of kit and been very impressed by their customer service.
Great review. I just replaced my Niche Zero with Sculptor 78, because I do filter only. The Zerno is appealing for its build quality and burr choices and blind burr configuration. I haven't fully seasoned my new grinder yet and am already thinking about the next one. I'll be at the Specialty Coffee Exo next month, so you never know what I may see there!
I have done the same - the 078 is superior in so many ways over the Niche for filter. Can’t imagine a Zerno is going to be much better with a smaller 64mm burr tbh
Zerno is on my wish list. Recent vids say that if you want to use regular 64mm burrs, with screw holes, they will work here, too. You are not limited to blind burrs. Looking to see more of their innovations migrate into the new generation of grinders.
Yup! Standard burrs work too. Should have mentioned that more clearly!
Great video. Thanks. I have a Niche Zero and love it. I don’t know much about flat espresso burrs, so I would look forward for a follow up Zerno video discussing different burr choices.
Awesome! Thanks for this. The Niche Zero is a great grinder. Flat burr grinders are a whole other world to get into!
I have the Niche Zero and while I haven't really branched out from espresso since I've gotten it, I have needed to do batch brew a couple times and one friend really just wanted drip from a pour over, so I'm back looking into cleaning up my grind profile..... Lance Hedrick and Wired Gourmet... and I believe James Hoffman ( it's tickling my memory but it would have been something I watched a long time ago before I actually invested, so the video would probably be 2 years old at this point, all have videos related to microdosing or feeding the beans in extremely slowly so they grind at the same rate, and having fewer beans within the Burrs bouncing around and regrinding and mashing against each other trying to get out of the machine means you end up with less fines and a more uniform grind even from the Zero! Just saying you might find a success in an experiment with the grinder you have before investing in a new one 😉
@@DaddyGotCoffee Actually the Zerno website provides excellent information about the different types of burrs and why you would choose one over the other.
@@NoZenith I love my Niche Zero and I'm not looking to purchase another grinder. I just enjoyed this Zerno review and think the Zerno looks cool, and is a very good grinder. I saw Lance's recent video about slow feeding the beans, but I have not tried doing it. I did see on Reddit where someone placed a piece of clear tape on the NFC disk to make the hole slightly smaller-thus causing the beans to feed slower. I might try that next time I clean my grinder : )
@NativeNewYorker66 yeah I was actually going to buy a new NFC disc so I can cut extra holes out to make it feed faster before I saw The Wired Gourmet video about Niche Zero Pourover microdosing. They even have a three-hole NFC disc on Etsy but I'm fine with the way it is now 😆
Have mine on order. I was fortunate to get one on the 4th production run. I have the black with HU burrs. Plus have the MP burrs and cast V2 burrs for experimentation. I have a DF83 V2 with HU burrs and want to compare the difference. I wanted a grinder that was made with care and Vel seems like the he cares. i also heard he might be making a 80mm version.
Any tips on the seasoning you did would be greatly appreciated. I will be ordering one soon and I'm wondering how many kg of beans i'll need. Rest periods?
Nice review. I am going for the df83v standard burrs (espresso;)❤
Absolutely a solid choice! I have one on the test bench!
@@DaddyGotCoffeethat was quick 😅😌
whats the coffe machine in the background in the back pleasE? ascaso? i cannot find it on their website
Would love to see a video comparing the SSP MP v Cast burrs across filter and espresso (and while you’re at it why not throw in the HU’s)… there’s very little good high quality empirical data out there - I personally got the z1 with cast (same burrs that Vel uses) and was a little underwhelmed with the filter I got out of it. Research suggests they need a lot of seasoning but I haven’t managed to do that yet (my z1 is currently out of action pending repair). Cheers!
Good luck getting your hands on one !
Anyone can who has the cash. Just need to wait. Use the grinder you have and wait for it. Not a big deal.
Was considering the Weber EG-1 grinder and wonder how this Zerno compares to it.
Aww man you got 2 of them! I want one but the waitlist is long and I keep missing the cutoff.
Just borrowed from a friend! Sadly now returned and no longer with me!
I wish to hear from you for the comparison between Z1 and Philos.
I would love to know where people are selling their gear, assuming they don’t have the room or want multiple grinders in their possession. I’ve been looking for a lightly used Lagom mini and can’t find any used or trading gear sites.
Any plans on doing a time more 078 (pour over version) review, especially against the zerno and a few others?
How much is the shipping for the zerno in the US? Do they charge tax?
I think very important to remark on rigidity. Perfect alignment certainly a necesary starting point, but as soon as the uneven crunch of beans is sent in, is that pefect alignment and even grind maintained? or do the burs deflect about? when targetting micro meters it doesnt take much and coffee beans are like little stones. many grnders fail in this regard. Interested to hear about rigidity, or better yet a microscope showing grind size distribution, a consistent one ultimately the goal of any grinder
can you pls review the good conical burr grinder around 1500$ or less?
Nice review… it reminds me of an airbrush… Also this is a high end of what kitchenaid grinder could have been 🤭
Hahahahahaha
Did they make it quieter since the first release?
Would you reccomend this over the p64?
Is the silver grinder on the right in the review, the same metal as the stand and the hopper? Or is the silver a painted coating on the metal, like the paint on the white grinder? If the silver grinder were raw brushed metal, like the stand, that would be my preference. No paint to flake off over time.
It’s a powder coat silver paint finish with a clear coat! It’s no longer available but a comeback at some point has been rumoured…
Would you say that 30-36 microns is well alligned? That is the difference between chirp and burr lock on my Mazzer Philos.
Would be great see a burr comparison of their blind burrs
awesome review! what does your tattoo say?
I do want this now as my end game grinder. But still don’t know whether I should go for flat or conical burrs. I’ve been using conicals all along (get good results) so don’t know if I jump into the flat burr territory is a mistake or not. And also don’t know anyone with flat burrs to try.
Note: I only drink espresso.
I’m a relative newbie to espresso (cappuccino, really). Used a 1Zpresso K (or whatever it’s called) while waiting for the Zerno to arrive. Despite having unrefined tastebuds, I was really shocked, pleasantly, by the difference once the Zerno arrived. Can’t describe it other than to say it tasted “clearer” and more pronounced. Haven’t looked back.
@@KC-ge9wq thanks for the feedback man. I have a BPlus Apollo hand grinder (and Robot Espresso machine). I am not experienced enough with other conical grinders only a few, a certainly zero experience on Flats, so I have no idea what to expect. Hence I don’t know whether to invest on a conical or a flat for my endgame grinder.
Your feedback gives me some idea what to expect though. And also loving the capability of Zerno to replace burrs so easily, in hope that will open new tasting palette horizons.
Wish they would make them with Mizen Omni burr
Hi may i know how it compare to df83v ?
Unfavorably.
Didn't they add an ion generator to the new version of the Zerno? I don't think you mentioned one and I see it buried in the FAQ but not on their main webpage.
They did. Short answer here - The other changes to the chute etc have a bigger impact on static/retention than the ion generator. I would not be shocked to see this removed at some point.
As of the most recent batch, the ionizer has been removed
Thanks to both. I just asked because it looked like more buildup around the exit nozzle (see 9:50) than I would expect for RDT and an ionizer although it does look like a very fine grind.
@@Justin-yx4bq this clip was taken without using RDT to show the buildup ☺️ it’s for this reason I recommend using RDT with this grinder. It’s PRETTY good as is, but even with the changes to the chute and ionizer on this unit it still warrants Rdt (IMO)
@@DaddyGotCoffeeah got it. thanks for the clarification.
Compared to the Philos?
Particularly the auger performance - how do they compare?
They are VERY different approaches to pre breaking and managing feed rates, but they are both very effective.
When I first saw the Philos auger I thought it would feed super aggressively and maybe not prebreak very much - neither are true. It has a very large volume pre breaking chamber and the beans spin around in there a lot more than they do on the zerno before being delivered to the burrs. It seems to me to be accomplishing a pseudo slow feed and it still absolutely demolishes the beans.
Zerno will offer multiple auger options, I don’t ever see mazzer offering this. Mazzers approach is unique and innovative. Very nice to see a fresh take here, especially one that works so well. Once I get my production run-philos I will absolutely be doing a deep dive here
@@DaddyGotCoffeeI'm trying to decide between the Zerno and Philos so I'd really appreciate a comparison review, or even just a full review of the Phiolos if that's possible. Thank you!
@DaddyGotCoffee
Thank you for the reply. Looking forward to you getting in the deep end, with the final production unit of the philos. 👍👍
From an aesthetics point of view, it's amazing. It's only fault is the white power cord.
The nice thing here is you can change it. As someone with a white setup and kitchen I would prefer a white cable if I was buying!
someone needs to explain the science of how coffee can taste different depending on the type of burr its ground with
@carlosroldan8910 :
So this isn't perfect but hopefully helps. When you brew coffee you're pretty much trying to pull all the nice oils and flavours from your grounds. You can speed this up and slow this down using a few factors - hotter water, agitation so the water rubs off the coffee more, pressure and the size of the grounds. For size, what happens is the finer we grind our coffee, the more surface area of the coffee we end up exposing so we've got more area for the water to come in contact in so we can extract faster and so brew quicker.
When we extract coffee, it'll go through three different stages of flavour. The first parts are sour, the middle bits are sweet and the end bits are bitter typically. Say we had two different sizes of coffee grounds, one really big and one tiny and brew those together. The really big ones don't have as much surface area exposed so they'll extract slower and probably only get to the sour stage of the drink. The really fine ones are exposing way more so they're easier to extract faster, so we'll likely get to the bitter point faster. These two combined will give us a bit of a bad taste if it's distinctly sour and bitter coffee only. If we instead have grounds where they're all roughly in the middle and the same size, we'll only end up getting all the really sweet bits in our finished drink and it'll be fab (simplification).
You might think that you only ever want these middle bits in your drink but an up side to having the smaller particles is you'll get a bit more coffee oil in your drink and the mouthfeel / texture ends up a bit thicker feeling which is quite nice. If you only go with medium or large size, you get less oil and a thinner feeling drink.
When it comes to burrs, one good way of looking at them is a spectrum between being really good at getting everything to be the same size of ground so you get only one, "best" taste from your coffee - this is normally called clarity. On the other side, you get burrs which have a wider spread of sizes and they're generally pushed towards blending / texture.
Why would you go for one over the other? Say you have a really specific, fruity or floral coffee that you want to get a really clear flavour from, you'll probably want a burr where it can be really precise and give you the most of that specific thing you want. On the other hand, say you've got a blended coffee where you want a very smooth chocolatey flavour with lots of texture and no sharpness, then a burr that has a wider range between big and small will give you more of that.
The down side of the clear burr, is since it's going to have a very specific setting to get the really nice sweet bit from a coffee and nothign else, if you get that setting wrong, that particular cup of coffee might end up being very sour or bitter until you get the right dialing setting or make other adjustments to your coffee process that would affect how it comes out. On the other hand the burr with the much wider range is going to average out things more and be more forgiving but you'll never get the absolute best out of a really specific coffee since you're going to get a larger proportion of big and small along with those middle sweet bits you wanted - this is often called "muddy".
So ultimately, a burr is designed to go towards either clarity or blendiness, depending on what type of drink you want to make. The most clear burrs totally sacrifice any really tiny grounds and because of that you'll find it way harder to make a traditional espresso since you need those to build enough pressure and get lots of texture, likewise the most blendy burrs have such a wide range that you'll never be able to make really delicate, tea like and floral tasting pour over drinks with it. I've been searching for a "good enough" middle ground do all burr, knowing I'm going to sacrifice the very best of both ends but I'll be happy enough with that, they do exist too.
You can almost compare grinder burrs to an equalizer on an audio system - do you want something with lots of bass, mid and treble for an overall full sound, or if you're only listening to violin concertos, do you want something that emphasizes only the frequencies that a violin hangs out in? What a lot of people do is get two grinders where often a cheapy hand grinder can give you amazing grounds for the other type of coffee that you don't drink as often to go along with your pricey electric grinder that you use for 90% of your drinks. The zerno in this case makes it very very convenient and repeatable for you to swap your burrs in about 10 minutes so it's a bit of a game changer for a home user to get both best of, extremes of burrs and swap them depending on what type of coffee they're making.
hope this helps!
Looks like this will be close to $1500 at time of order. No way to know for sure, the website isn’t accepting orders. But your video had a $1215 shown, I’m guessing another $200 for burrs, and shipping. Scary part is, they could raise the price after they’ve collected our $10 to join the waitlist. It’s what I’d do if demand is so much higher than supply.
So, guessing $1500; is this better/worse/the same as a Lagom 64? (Which also offers burr selections and is back ordered 😂). I think most are weighing this versus the Weber key, which wouldn’t be comparable in cost when it was touted at $1,000, but if pricing is increased, is it worth grabbing a key today in lieu of waiting months for an opportunity to buy a zerno?
This or a P64 for espresso?
I wish the zero came out a year earlier. I would have waited if I knew about it
Team HU!
Great burr!
Wait … what machine do you use on vacation when you take your grinder?
Hahahahaha believe it or not I’ll often take an Ascaso Duo! Sometimes a Newton
i really do like the design language of vour viedeos and i do enjoy them in gnerall that being said i would love to ahve it in a hoigher quality of resolution bedces for me personaly 1080p looks pretty unsharp 4k would be lovely
Saving for this ☕️ But wow it’s a jump. Mostly because I do slo mo and crop in to get several compositions from the same clip. Currently shooting on an FX30!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thaths great keep up teh good work i just discovered you today and already watched about half of your videos
Which Chinese makers make a similar setup grinder?
Nice! I'd go for this if the price came down a little bit. I still can't budget over $1,000 for a setup cuz I do not want to get into the finicky rabbit holes of the espresso Perfection Hobby.... I'm throwing that money into heading to Italy and getting espresso on a street corner LOL
It looks like a pepper grinder glued to an iMac stand
It’s looks aren’t for everyone (as with any grinder). I was more mixed initially. It really grew on me over the course of my testing.
I couldn't possibly disagree more. Unlike the China-made tin cans with a bellows on top, this Zerno has the aesthetics and style to truly match the performance and flexibility it offers.
@@fillflashdetailer8838 Well said! 👍
Lmao dude spot on about the apple stand. Or a white compact fire extinguisher.
@@xhynetuseinovski Compare it to those ridiculous tin cans with bellows on top coming out of China... This Zerno is a beauty in comparison.
I like it, but the style is so bad, I would avoid it, and all I mean by that is the MAC style stand. It doesn't look hard to engineer a new style more robust stand style that doesnt look like a cheap mac monitor stand.
It’s not for everyone - I will say, it grew on me!
@@DaddyGotCoffee This and Niche I consider the ugly pair 🙂. This is better than the Niche, but a no-go for me. What I gather from watching a ton of videos on grinders, is that, in order to notice a significant improvement difference, going to 64 from 54 is not gonna happen. So, I may as well do 83. Because the Timemore 78s has too many shortcomings.
DF83V with variable RPM at half the price ... no reason to get Zerno.
Would be like comparing a swatch and a Lange and sohne watch
@@earlycheese6083 Spot on! The Lange also makes worse coffee because it has less features ... Uhm, what?
LOL Rasen, what are you smoking. The Zerno build quality and customer service are light years ahead of DF/Turin. That's like comparing a Ford Focus to a Porsche.
@@JeepBigE The former is a soft criterion. Coffee's worse with static RPM, fact. Also - you won't need the customer service if the build quality is that amazing in the first place.
That is not a review it is a sales pitch. And I'm sorry to say you have the Richard Nixon aura about ... I wouldn't buy a used car from you either!
Never been compared to Nixon before. If you disagree with anything specific I’ve said feel free to drop a counterpoint. I stand by my comments.
I was raised with everyone demonizing Nixon but the more I learn about the man God damn he was intelligent, articulate and persuasive with a seemingly very peace biased foreign policy coming out of World War II and then being heavily exposed to the then Korean "Conflict" and the Vietnam War. I would take the compliment and run with it @DaddyGotCoffee
That power chord looks very pathetic and makes this grinder very ugly designed grinder…
this is just a chinese white label product, designed in china for mass branding
Hahahaha - I have reviewed PLENTY of those. This is not that. These are designed, machined and manufactured by hand in the US. This is not a white label grinder.
Its made in chicago
Dude, what are you even talking about??
😂😂😂 this comment is hilarious, maybe Chinese has tried to copy this but no, you are incorrect.
@danchan5620, educate yourself before making such a stupid comment.
6:43 What burr was that with no screw holes?
It’s a 64mm SSP HU (blind configuration)