Old vs Older: Is $27K of Used German 4x4’s and a Combined 800 HP Better Than a New Subaru Off-Road?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
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( www.TFLcar.com ) Our 2004 Volkswagen Touareg has already proven to be a beast of a luxury off-roader with its locking rear differential, remarkable ground clearance and low-range transfer case. The 2012 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, on the other hand, doesn't have all that tech helping it out, but will its more modern systems help it beat its older cousin off-road? We find out!
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#Cayenne #Touareg #ToughT - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Hey Guys Tommy Here! Due to our editing team working remotely we had a goof slip through. At 1:10 that is the wrong generation Touareg. That is the latest model not sold in the U.S. Our (2012) Cayenne is based on the Second generation Touareg. My apologies, and hope you have a safe and healthy day!
Hope you're all safe and well. Blessings from the UK.
Hey, Tommy, stay safe, and keep making these great videos for the off road enthusiasts.
I guess this is the right time for you to plan some comparison videos of Limited slip differential vs torsen differential, also throw some russian offroad vehicles in the mix.
Uaz Hunter or Lada Niva vs Wrangler vs Touareg... represe tatives of all parties involved of the WWII... so to speak. ;)
The Fast Lane Car not sure why you keep saying the wildpeaks aren't as good as the KO2s, the KO2s seemed to have more slips. So far I've noticed nothing but grip in my wildpeak AT3's on my Touareg.
@@m-at-the-w142 Don't think those were AT3's. Look closer at the tread. Looks more like a Wildpeak all season. I run AT3's on my Tundra and love them.
NotaBRZ NotaMiata ah, that makes sense. Yes, I really like my WP AT3s so far. Plenty of grip.
Breaks my heart that VW strayed away from the original Touareg philosophy of being luxurious bonafide off-roaders. Especially considering how good looking they are now.
It's all about the demand. No point in developing and building the equipment, if no one ticks the box .
They were*
I think the first gen face lift was a way cooler looking car
I think they still look good and now they became affordable. Even with the servicing cost.
Andras Libal best and most affordable Touareg is the 2010. Used. Idk what the new ones in Europe are like but the second gen in US can’t shake a stick at the first gen in terms driving or off road. Not only are the first gens cheap now but the 2010 was the most reliable Touareg that was ever made in the US.
Get a fully loaded 2010 touareg with 30k miles on it for like $18k. It’ll last you to 125k miles no problem. Or a standard v6 tdi no rear locker or air suspension with 30k miles for $15k (USD). I got the latter for $14.4k with 38k miles and I am a very happy buyer.
Father son duo is wholesome to watch, was probably a fun day.
Just got my dream SUV, 2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo with low range and center diff lock. $9,200 out the door even after tax and everything. 118k miles
How has the reliability been?
@@MrBigjoe2400 other than catching up on previous owner neglect, it’s been a reliable daily driver for me. It has typical German car headaches if you’re already familiar with German cars. But I wouldn’t rather drive anything else. I bought it 2 1/2 years ago with 118,000 miles on it, and now I have 155,000 miles. I plan to keep this for as long as possible, and also get me one of those V 10 TDI Volkswagen Touaregs lol
Math with Tommy. The 8 speed is different than the 6 speed, it's 2 gears different. Thanks for the laugh.
Love your content guys!
Awesome video guys, I own a 2004 Cayenne and with the low range these are surprisingly capable off road yet still a comfortable hwy tourer. A great all rounder.
Great job guys and great video. A part 2 video when the snow melts would be pretty cool.
I bought a 2010 Touareg TDI because of you guys a couple of weeks ago. You two have a unique sense of humor with semi subtle digs that I really appreciate. Thanks for videos....
Touareg were way underated....you could get them with a locking rear diff and very rare locking front diffs....air suspension and low and high range transfer case......so underated!
The mid 2000's was the peak of VW awesomeness! She's all down hill since then!
Currently have the falken wildpeak AT3 tires on my T2 Touareg. They are great in the mud, ice and snow up here in North Dakota, I have to say they have been better then the KO2’s I had previously.
C'mon guys, a steady pace & momentum is your friend...all this stop-start along a snow-clad grade is the WORST technique to use. You do know maximum traction is needed upon acceleration from a standstill, as opposed to maintaining a velocity, don't you? Newtons First law of motion.
Tommy isn't good driving offroad neither is this review any good.
Ya these guys dont know how to 4x4
Nice to see I’m not the only one thinking this, awful off road drivers
D D you’re obviously the idiot. They’re constantly stop/starting. Constantly on and off the power. Making each car loose momentum in different places and having to start from different angles or ruts. I understand what they are trying to do, so why not keep a constant peddle and a low speed and crawl. This will still test the cars ability without momentum. Or are you too thick to understand this being as you instantly went with insults?
Everything they do is on purpose.
Nice to see the Toureg again..the Cayenne looks good too..thanks Roman n Tommy for all your hard work at this time.⭐⭐
Hey Tommy, big disadvantage for the Touareg in the tire department - I run the KO2 in my Landcruiser and would never ever run them in winter. It must be said though that they are very pressure sensitive - run them on lower pressure to improve cold weather grip
Falken wildpeak tyres are far better in the snow than the Goodrich
7:17 why don't you put underbody protection for both the Touareg and the Cayenne?
$$$, and I think that they are trying to show what they are capable of stock with just better tires. Something anyone could do easily.
Rich Farfugnuven I agree with you, I just hope they keep on with the mods
Good luck finding underbody protection. Do a hour google for it, see what you get back. All underbody protection is ONE OFF custom made. There's NO mass produced aftermarket. $$$-$$$$ big bucks for custom fabrication. Same goes for a front bumper winch system, is is POSSIBLE, but a lot of effort.
@@ow-my-achilles1106 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Touareg-Underride-Protection-Steel-2003-2010-Skid-plate/183848626802?fits=Car+Make%3AVW%7CModel%3ATouareg&hash=item2ace3b6a72:g:G24AAOSwPdhdBLxd
found it in 5 minutes
@@CosminDogaru997 lol
That cayenne dose not share its chassis with the new touareg like you showed .It shares it chassi with touareg 7p 2011-2017 model!
Definitely did not give enough credit to the falken wildpeaks on the cayenne. More and more people are trying out the wildpeaks and liking them better than the ko2s. Idk ko2s are good but kind of overated in my opinion. Wildpeaks are cheaper and just as good if not better than ko2s.
Agreed. After reading some reviews of the KO2s I went with the WildPeak AT3's. EXCELLENT grip in all weather conditions so far.
Rigo M. The Wild peaks just don’t have the tread I like. My area gets mighty muddy especially around my farm, and I have ko2’s on all of my Silverados and my dodge. They never get stuck or struggle too much. BfGoodrich has always been my go to when buying tires. Yeah they can get pricey but you can’t beat the wear rate for them👍🏻
69 Bronco guy! Hey I’ve wondered about the Goodyear wrangler duratracs. How do you like them? I’ve thought about them as an alternative but I don’t know anything about them, as in tread wear, road noise and such.
69 Bronco guy! Yeah thank you man for taking the time to do that. I think I’ll give the duratracs a shot on my Silverado. Stay safe as well :)
Family member has K02s, I have Wikdpeaks. The K02s are a bit stronger, but the Wildpeaks are better in rain and Ice. Both are hood in deep snow. Both will get you up a mountain. That's all the review you need.
Love that Touareg!
It’s a shame that the later Touareg lost any off-road ability with no low range or locking diffs.
They just had to accept that they were primarily used for school runs, shopping and just sitting up high.
This whole series is convincing me to buy a first gen Touareg.
I have an 07 V10TDI with the center and rear lockers, Love it and it does anything I ask of it! Love seeing all your video's with the T-Reg!
This was brilliant! Great for showing how capable these two highly sophisticated German machines are even on snow.
I wish you do crazy offroad review with gwagon with proper offroad tyres
Hiketo Chishi you spelled tires with a Y lol 😂 smh 🤦🏾♂️.
G-Wagen squared...
@@brandonwright6578
That is UK English spelling
john cooper didn’t realize it was that different lol 😂
@@brandonwright6578 it is the correct way to spell it because it is well... ENGLISH.
You can always count on Roman to ask Tommy if the rear diff is locked🙂
Nathan Kestin yeah and you don’t need to lock the rear diff all the bloody time either. Let the car do it’s thing.
dude - air-down the tyres
Airing down with such small sidewalls is a recipe for having the wheel cut the sidewall. They are fully aware that airing down helps a lot. And have done it for other tests.
@@Stuka87 The Touareg has more than enough sidewall to air down. Basic off-road concept is to air down your tires, especially in rocks/snow. It makes a world of difference in regards to traction. When Tommy says "I need a front locker", no you need to air down!
TheRedrunner87 It then would not be an even comparison to air down one and not the other.
@@Stuka87 There's enough sidewall to have aired both down by 10psi from what the RCTIP is for daily use. That would've paid dividends in the snow without compromising the sidewalls all that much. It actually looked like the tires on the 19 were flexing more than the KO2s.
Everybody is an expert in the TH-cam comment section
Cayenne went straight up the first obstacle because it carries more speed with out the low gear, also different wheel base places the tires in different spots.
That touareg won the dakar rally. I've got one and it has 2 diff locks. Won't sell it because you can't replace it anymore.
Good review - one thing I’d completely disagree on is when Roman says the VW is 90% close to the Wrangler Rubicon. Not even close .. it’s a bit misleading. You won’t see a VM conquer the rubicon or any trail above a moderate with large boulders and extreme articulation.
You guys should put this vw up against the crosstrek so people can see the comparison off road. Finding one of these vw’ is rare but crosstreks are all over the place :)
BTW Touareg and Porsche shared Aisin trans from 2003 to 2010
The sound you hear from the fans on the Ceyenne comes on whenever you turn on the “Off-road mode” I’ve got a 14 GTS and it’s amazing how capable it is.
Thank you guys for all the videos, it's very informative... I love em please keep posting...
The Cayenne surprised me. Wish you guys could do a throwback thursday special with a 03-06 Tahoe and Explorer bone stock. The Z71 verses whatever Ford’s equal spec version doing these tests.
"better than a new Subaru off road?"
damn they throwing shade at Subaru because Subaru won't give them cars to test/review.
That and Subaru's actually are really bad offroad. Don't forget they went out and bought one because Subaru said "no more cars for you". The CVT kills any offroad chops a Subaru may have.
@@Stuka87 I saw few videos where Dacia Duster goes much better off road than Subaru.
CVT Subarus are worthless offroad. An older one like an OBXT with the 5EAT, much more capable!
@@hallkbrdz Oh for sure. I have seen some first gen Foresters go quite a few places.
Touareg blows the outback and forester out of the water. I call it the king of soft readers
I have the exact same year and color Touareg. Only problems is that the door get stick and won’t open at time.
I’m still waiting for you to get a V10 Touareg. Do all the stuff that V10 owners like myself were too scared to do!
Do you have a V10? How has it been for maintenance? What is the changes you havent dared to do? I work for a Norwegian car magazine, and we are wondering about doing an SUV project car, and the V10 is on our radar.
MrLundefaret I have owned a 2007 V10 Touareg and it needed a right tandem pump seal which no one wanted to replace and the dealership didn’t even want to work on it. I ended up doing it myself WITHOUT engine removal and other than the tandem pump it seemed pretty solid. It was a one owner 134,000 miles when I bought it from a dealership and I’m sure the reason the first owner gave it up was the tandem pump repair. It would be a great project car and the unique sound of the V10 diesel is worth it alone!
The v10 is a nightmare, the 3.2 or the TDI V6 are more secure options.
I love TFL for this kind of video!! I'll never see this kind of video from other new car reviewers! Really enjoyed the video and keep up the good work fellas!
It is amazing to me that people that live in an area that experiences significant snowfall yearly, cannot drive in the snow.
Offroad driving in the snow is a lot different than driving in the snow on asphalt, especially when you don't know where the craters are off road, because it's covered under snow, until someone blazes a path.
You'd be surprised about how many people in Colorado end up in the ditch when it snows.
That little argument at the end when you guys walked off was classic. You should do more funny (not so typical) endings like that.
I didn't know the 2012 had those 4 little headlight LEDs!
TFL is my all time favorite channel of all the channels I have subscribed. It's amazing to see you guys still working hard during this time. Stay safe and thank you
thanks for the kind words!
Snow especially melting snow is like adding oil under the tires. Anything can get stuck.
Great vid: you said the Porsche is as good as a GC. I think that’s the vid we need to see! (WK2 summit owner)
There's one cousin which you forgot and is also related to the two - the Audi Q7.
15:40 those Wildpeaks are better than KO2s in the snow. Very underrated tire. Much better on wet tarmac and ice as well.
You know, my dad and my thing growing up was going to football games (HS, College, and NFL). That was fun but we never were paid to do it (obviously).
You all at TFL are quite lucky to blend your hobby into a paying gig.
I’m surprised you guys didn’t air down the tires! Great vid - thanks
Your first obstacles was easy because the porche is 400 pounds less
Love your Touareg videos, guys! 💪 Greetings from Deutschland 🇩🇪
Your experience of the Falken Wildpeak versus the KO2 is very different from mine. The all-weather handling of the Wildpeak make it the go-to AT tire here in Oregon's wet, gloppy, snow on road and off. I think the consumer ratings people like Consumer Reports gave it much higher marks for all around winter weather handling over the old school BFGs.
I voted a 2006 ford explorer how would you rate it if I put a snorkel and made it more off road like
I'd love to have seen this with a Wrangler following/between the VW and Cayenne
69 Bronco guy! Lockers don’t always get you over an obstacle, you should really only use them as a last resort if you can’t make it up on your own. It’s really about the driver and the line. I’d take a stock sport wrangler with good tires over both of these 10/10 times offroad. The thing is, the wrangler has ‘actual’ 4wd, not a sophisticated ‘AWD’
Lol it won’t make it jeeps are overrated I should know I have all 3 the Porsche is fast but sucks off road the REG is just a monster on any terrain and the wrangler is about to be traded in for a v70R
@@catchme_ifyoucan8317 Well we have two Jeep wrangler sports, a '98 and a '15. No lockers, nothing fancy. Just good tires and small lifts. We've gone over things in rain and hail storms that the average noob would want lockers for. So no, they are not overrated. In fact I believe the Sport and Sahara are under-rated, every one wants the Rubicon but they don't understand how a capable a stock jeep is(with good tires). It's 80% about how good the driver is, what line is taken, tire choice, and some balls. Have fun in your V70, I am a fan of those.
@@shitloveaduck Ok bronco boy.
@@shitloveaduck You sure do like to assume things, don't you sir? I am not 12, but your wonderful work truck story tells me you are at least 50-60+. Tell me, do you do much off-roading? Ever been to Moab, Telluride/Ouray, anywhere in Colorado with a 4x4 trail? Well I have, and I can tell you from experience, a Jeep is a Jeep. And that said, It's a hell of a lot more capable than you think. Lockers WILL get you farther, but they aren't an absolute must.
Hahaha. I laughed so much at 11:05 when Tommy said it sound like the titanic. 😂
It really did though! Lol 🤣
I think it’s time for everyone to discuss the KO2s. Put bluntly, they’re just not that good. KOs were great, excellent wear, fun on the trail, decent in the snow. KO2s are not. Living in Wyoming, there are several tires that I found had much better traction in the snow: Duratracs, Ridge Grapplers, Wildpeaks, etc. I ran KOs on my 100 series and didn’t have to replace them for over 70k miles. I ran KO2s on my 3/4 truck with VERY minimal hauling (different truck all together, I realize) and needed a new set within 20k miles. KO2s just aren’t the KOs we all love.
not even the snow tires on that Touareg Omg....
The Touareg is a lot cheaper to maintain and offers higher ground clearance.
Those Falken's are way better than the BFG's especially in the snow and cold.
The picture you showed to represent the 2nd generation Tourag is actually the 3rd generation Tourag
Hey look i may just be blind but may i suggest in future you air down your tires as that can largely benefit the traction you will have whilst off-roading.
I’m on my second Toureg first was a second gen 2012 TDi Executive I put 165000 miles on and my current 3rd gen 2015 TDi LUX. The only thing I wish the new one had is the air suspension for towing purposes. So that the rear suspension didn’t sag with trailer tongue weight. THe 8 speed transmission is the best unit I have ever experienced in a car or truck. It’s just amazing. It keeps the engine in its torque peak through every shift and pulls hard. I surprise every car that challenges me at the light. They never expect that the diesel pulls away like it does. I have to say the 2015 feels faster than the 2012. Even after the diesel gate software update and changes the mileage on the highway is better in the 2015 engine than the 2012 CATA engine. The electric water pump and the timing belt revisions have less drag on the engine and that is converted into better mileage on the highway. I Commute to Philadelphia daily and if I don’t get bogged down in traffic too much I’m rolling 30 mpg or 31 mpg for a 60 mile commute.
I guess you can buy hybrids that can boast numbers like that or better but they can’t match doing it all day long or go off road like the Toureg does. Once that battery goes dead its on the engine and a real dog.
Vw touareg is such a great vehicle
Quite honestly if you went with any other tire than the BFG, you would have faired way better in every situation. BFGs are terrible in the snow in Colorado. Compared to the Duratrac, Toyo AT3, and even the Kelly ATs the are sub par and people only buy them for the name.
Not too much snow on the Baja 1000
Great video! Btw, what made you choose KO2s over Duratracs? KO2s are great tires, but my experiences from living in Northern Michigan have proven duratracs to be moderately superior overall, but MUCH better in the snow.
Compare the Touareg to a Grand Cherokee Trailhawk.
Jeep has very poor handling to the point where it turns over in the moose test. AWD is shitty as well as the traction control. Interior and power are also on a different level. Why compare them than? :D
Sk1walker they fixed the moose problem in 2014. I haven’t had any problems with the AWD. It has climbed every obstacle I’ve tried. It’s been really impressive off-road and has all the same features as this Touareg and I want to see how they compare.
Just from a quick glance we can see that the Cayenne's sophisticated traction management is far superior to the Old VW.
Love this i have a 2012 tdi touareg, i take it off roading all the time
What tires do you have ?
@@CTAjunior Bridgestone duller, not to crazy. I mostly stick to trails and a little bit of mud. Got a kerma tdi tune on it. Highly recommend it.
amazing the differece tyres make @15:30. KO2's are decent in snow, but i guess the falkens are just better
Good luck maintaining those two old high-mileage VAG cars...
Thank you for givning is this awesome content.
This is more of a testament to tire grip than anything else. The KOs are a formidable tire, but they are rather stiff, especially when aired up. All things being equal, (same tire size, air pressure, etc.) the Wildpeak would do better on icy trails due to the pliability and additional siping. However, if I had to make a choice between these 2 vehicles to trek thru many miles of terrain similar to what's on the video I would go with the Touareg, KOs and I would add tire chains. The KOs are a much tougher tire.
If I wanted an all year round AT tire that has good grip in the snow (for an AT tire) the Wildpeaks would be my choice.
And do not forget the Audi version too. The Q7 is the same as a Touraeg or a Cayenne. I sold them all when new. Just variations on a platform.
Great video! Thanks, guys!!
To me the nicest version of the Touareg was the 2011/2012 version that could be bought in South Africa and Australia, standard it had 4Motion but could be up-spec'd to 4XMotion which had centre and rear diff-lock, low range and air suspension with a 3.0 V6 TDi
I owned the Touareg and not having the rear diff lock or air was a let down considering how expensive repairs can get and it’s really not worth it to fix it. However, the air ride may be very expensive to maintain, as I heard, but pretty reliable.
Would be interesting to see how a 2020 Rav4 TRD off-road with bigger tires does. I suspect it'll be another poke at Subaru.
The porsche could have made it around the tree with consistent throttle you can't drive. Momentum works in snow.
So from what I was seeing for the steps is that maybe the longer wheel base was hurting the Touareg a bit. It was hitting the second step with front tires as the rear tires where hitting the first step. The Cayenne was short enough that it was not hitting the second step with the front tires at the same time the rears where hitting the first step so it only had to get up one step at a time while the Touareg had to get up both at the same time. IDK tho. Great video.
Those neon orange wheels look HIDDEOUS.
Would the tourreg or cayenne would be let go from your inventory of test cars
Love the comps. Those vehicles seem to be much more capable than their reputations would seemingly let on. They seem to have a lot in common with the modern day Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (aside from the air suspension).
I don't know if you've gone through this before... Ferdinand Piëch created both the Touareg, the Cayenne, and "The Car", the Phaeton. A must-read is a book that came along with the Phaeton and the Touareg. They describe in minute detail how they were manufactured. The 2004 Cayennes and Touaregs were more than 95% the same car, developed by Porsche, and both were the same off-road beasts. Both cars have been raced for more than 15 years in deserts all over the world, most importantly at the original Dakar Rally. They were many years ahead of anything else in the world. Sadly, they were so incredibly expensive to make, VW decided to downgrade them to "normal" cars, thus shedding maybe 20% of its pedigree and lowering their prices accordingly. The Porsche mainstay you can see here are the locking differentials.
U need momentum when your in slippery snow unless you air down alot
Phenomenal video! Big thanks for the upload
what was the tire pressure on the Touareg? seemed like 50 psi plus... Every time we get out in the snow we air down to 20-30 psi.
Love the German offroaders you guys test!
Great series but still think you're incorrect about the locking rear on the Cayenne. Mine has it and when looking, I saw a lot of them with it. Not as a separate option but as part of different packages.
After a little digging, it appears that a locking rear is part of PTV (Porsche Torque Vectoring) which is not a rare option. Like everything else Porsche though, I assume you could get it without PTV but with a locking rear, which would probably be rare and could be what you have.
Love your tests. How about taking an inclometer along on these tests so we know exactly how steep the hill, slope whatever it is that you are climbing. Foresters have them display on their system when you push the X mode button.
I wonder if lowering tyre pressure would help?
U cant crawl in the snow on a hill with rocks u need speed and airing down your tires makes a huge difference
You guys should run Falken Wildpeak A/T3W’s instead of BFG’s. They are significantly better tires, especially in the snow.
Great video, but I want to see more of the ML320, I am hoping you will make one soon
you guys should do the 958 cayenne vs a 4runner
it is too bad you didn't find the Parking Sensor Button right above you to turn off those god awful noises in the winter time! It was life changing when I found it in my first winter.
Would definitely want to see those two again, and the Cayenne in general, once the snow melts.
The Falken tires are way superior to the BFGs that why the Porsche did better in the snow
Surprised they didn't mention the bad driver mod that came with both cars.
Well done boys
Awesome video, for me your best yet, mind I am biased because they are my two favourite vehicles at the moment.
I very much like these comparison videos because they give a very good insight into the different abilities of the trucks.
Be brave keep risking damage, I think it's what we want to see, the trucks fully tested.
You can easily fit 18 inch cayenne diesel s wheels, We had a diesel s before with 18inch and now R50 touareg with the identical calipers as cayenne turbo as you have with the 6pot and the diesel s 18" wheels fit.