My great grandfather, a British navel engineer, designed the Renowned and the repulse. My great grandmother christened both ships - I have one of the diamond pendants presented to her by the king for this task.
Amazing. Thank you for sharing. Renown is one of my all time favorite ships. The original design had such virtues that it lent itself well to modernization, and in her final form HMS Renown was a fine ship that served with distinction in WW II.
Excellent video. I am from Uruguay, 85. Wish to add that the German pocket battleship Graf Spee was scuttled by her crew off Montevideo on Dec 17, 1939, the very day of my first birthday. She had battled the British cruisers HMS Exeter, Ajax, and Achilles on Dec 13. (Battle of the River Plate). Needless to say, nobody was at home but my mother and I ; crowds had gathered on the coast to watch the outcome, including my father.
My uncle served on the Renown, one of his anecdotes was of being shelled by the Sharnhorst on his 18th birthday he also lost a good mate on operation Torch.
My dad severed on this ship during the 2nd world war as a radio operator in the North Sea, but contracted TB and was invalided out of the navy and sent home.
@@christrinder1255 My Dad was also on the Renown, he was also a radio operator. He listened to morse code and could touch type the messages. I wonder if they knew each other?
My Grandfather served as Chief Petty officer aboard HMS Renown,serving as head chef.My Grandmother told me he organised a meal for Winston Churchill and was congratulated personally by him afterwards.
My father Patrick O'Hare survived the sinking of HMS Repulse. He was an AB with his action station in the 30ft rangefinder. Being above deck probably saved his life although getting the armoured door open as the ship listed was nearly impossible. He spent 2 hours in the sea before being rescued by HMAS Elektra. He escaped Singapore before the surrender and served on MGB 659 in the Mediterranean until the end of the war. He passed over the bar in 2019 aged 96
@@mastermariner7813 Thanks Tim Yesterday the 10th December was the 79th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Repulse. RIP to all who were lost on that day
“ decommissioned and scrapped” it saddens me for a few moments every time I hear that. I know they can’t all be museum ships but it just doesn’t seem like a fitting way to go😞
In case you didn’t know, the Japanese Kongo-Class Battlecruiser Hiei became Emperor Hirohito’s personal yacht in the 1930’s to prevent her from being scrapped as per the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty.
Love your videos but the 8th Revenge class battleship would have been HMS Resistance not Resolution. HMS Resolution was completed and served in both World Wars. Small point but your videos are usually so accurate.
@@yakumoyukari4405 Pardon me, I was thinking of the Revenge, and since it's name started with R, I always thought they were the same class. I commented before watching the video and forgot about it.
@@yakumoyukari4405 But still, when you're playing around with 15" guns, as long as you can hit the target, that'll do. An extra turret wouldn't make the fire directors any better.
Yes, its where you buy your ferry tickets to go down to Waiheke Island. The landform behind is the North shore of the Waitemata Harbour, at this point not crossed by the bridge built in the 1950s.
I've also seen photos of HMS Hood tied up on Princes Wharf too, possible during the same tour. Looking at the wharf now gives a good indication of how huge these ships were.
Jeez, they stuck AA anywhere it would fit as time went on. You can see the threat of planes getting serious as more AA was put on. 100 orlikons (so) is a serious upgrade.
What is interesting is that the RAF fighter commander in Singapore had organised full fighter cover for the Repulse and Prince of Wales in their mission where they were sunk. It may have only been Brewster Buffalos, but against unescorted high level bombers, they would have had a field day. But the Navy never informed the RAF that the ships had sailed, and so they were sunk.
@@rutabagasteu That's not true. It's not like they had an easy time of it - but their reputation was worse than they deserved. Their real problem was poor tactics on the part of their pilots for fighting Zeros and being heavily outnumbered. In any case - they were certainly better than nothing - and were more than good enough to do some serious damage to the bombers the Japanese were using against these two ships. .
The loss of Repulse and Prince or Wales was a result of the Navy's lack of understanding that the age of naval air power had arrived. There was a belief in the statement "no capital ship under way, has ever been sunk by aircraft attack", true up to that point but badly out of date. The Royal Navy simply had not moved with the times and been left behind in thinking, still believing that big guns were the deciding factor in war at sea.
Tango6nf that simply isn’t true, the Royal navy was well aware of the threat of naval air power, which was why they had the most carriers in the entire world at the time. The Admiralty had explicitly warned Churchill against the idea of sending two capital ships to Singapore because they knew two capital ships without air cover would be sitting ducks. The Royal navy had itself been explicitly preparing to use carriers extensively in surface actions since the 1920’s, they had the first purpose-built aircraft carrier design(the Japanese launched theirs faster but the Brits designed it first), they had a developed doctrine of strike carriers, battle carriers, and escort carriers, they developed carrier fighter direction techniques such that British CAPs were more efficient than any other navy, they had trained extensively in night actions with aircraft, they carried out the first significant carrier strike on enemy ships in port with the Taranto raid, etc, etc. The loss of Prince of Wales and Repulse lies largely at the feet of Churchill who should not have interfered in naval matters.
i think my grandpa was a stokesman on HMS renown, but I’ll have to check with my granddad. I never got to meet my grandpa myself, but my granddad tells me stories that he was told as a child. he told me they used to bake potatoes down in the engines (or the part where you put coal into the ships to keep them going) on the pipes, seeing as they were hot enough for that. along with that, i have original newspapers, ration cards, and national identity cards, belonging to my grandpa. we also have his dog tag, with his name on it, but the irony is, his name was spelt wrong. i mean, the middle of a war, and they spelt his name wrong, lol. my grandma also worked making bombs and in the factories. A story i was told about her, was she was supposed to go to work, but my great grandma, (her mother) convinced her to stay home. my great grandma saved her life, seeing as while she was having lunch, the factory was bombed. i will always love the wartime, and will always respect all soldiers that fought, and all lives that were lost, wether they were on the allied side or not. thank you for sharing the stories of these amazing ships! much love, stay safe. (EDIT) Just checked, he was on renown! he luckily survived everything!
My Great Uncle Lieu, (llewellyn Scillitoe) was a commissioned gunner on HMS Renown from 1939 - 1941 and was on her in the SA in the hunt for the Admiral Graf Spee. He was also on her in the North Sea in the action of early Apr 1940 off the Lofoten Islands, Norway and was awarded an MBE. He later went on to serve on HMS Duke of York and was a Lieutenant Gunnery Officer on her which engaged the KMS Scharnhorst which resulted in her sinking. If you are remotely interested in the history and actions these capital ships took part in you should search out their relative war diary logs which are accessible on the web.
The frame at 3:39 is HMS REPULSE on the World Tour with HMS HOOD.. She is inbound to Vancouver harbour, passing between Stanley Park (Vancouver side) and West Vancouver (opposite shoreline) and the mouth of the Capilano River.. Well before our any bridge crossing over (Lions Gate Bridge in 1937/38) My Grandfather was British Columbia Provincial Police in those days and he was part of the security at that time.. He also got a few pictures as a 25yr old novice photographer..
The whole thing boiled down to money. Postwar conditions in Britain were quite Spartan with the government straining due to returned veterans, lost colonies, food shortages, etc. It's fortunate that the HMS Belfast was saved. It is also much to the credit of the people that they managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
My Star Trek Online fleet has a USS Renown, a Tier 6-X Inquiry Class Battlecruiser, similar to the Zheng He from Star Trek Picard. Fitting name for the fastest, toughest ships Starfleet ever built. Love the Royal Navy ships of WW1 and WW2. Proud vessels with proud histories.
My grandfather was a in Gun A and then a sticker after it's accident.... He fought in the far East and then left the Navy in 1948 after serving since 1936.. he love the Battlecruiser Renown... And wore a cap with it's ensign his whole life..
Damn, but the Brit's built some great ships. And when they occasionally didn't, they learned, fixed problems, refitted ships, and incorporated that knowledge into new designs. The Royal Navy was and is a paramount example of naval excellence. This American loves the Royal Navy and Marines. No other force works so closely and well with our navy. The new Queen Elizabeth carrier is impressive and modern. It is a thing of beauty and lethal efficiency. I miss the old Invincible of the 1980's, but the new carrier is orders of magnitude more advanced. Yesss! Britannia is getting back into it! We (ANZUS) need the UK in the Pacific. I am also glad that there are US Marine f-35's on board, working and risking shoulder to shoulder in the pursuit of common goals.
The picture of her art 3:38, was on the tour with HMS Hood, as she was entering what is known here as the first narrows.. The Capilano River mouth is on the opposite side and the small cottage Municipality of West Vancouver which in years to come, would become the most expensive real estate in Canada. My later grandfather also took pictures and was with the British Columbia Police Force, which had the duty security for their visit..
Not so sure an improved Anti Aircraft armament would have made much difference when Repulse was lost ... PoW was much better equipped with AA but still succumbed to Japanese air attack.
The Anti-Air armament would have made a huge difference for both if it was functioning properly, unfortunately the tropical weather had done their radars and cordite no favors so there was no ability to repeat their good performance in the Med. When this is combined with the fact that their planned carrier escort, HMS Indominable, had run aground and the alternative HMS Hermes was considered too slow you get a mix of supreme misfortune and reckless rush that doomed Force Z.
@@AmurTiger Hermes had a maximum capacity of 15 aircraft. Even if those had been all fighters, that would not have been anywhere near enough to defend Force Z.
Q & A I'm a little late to the game, but I was just watching your Drydock episode 07, and you mentioned you were an engineer. I'm a mechanical engineering student myself, and I just wanted to say you did a nice job of explaining the boiler situation. Based on your explanation, it sounds like you are a mechanical engineer, and I was curious if this was the case. Whether you are a mechanical engineer or not, I am curious what your area of specialization is, ie thermofluids, design, etc for example if you are a mechanical engineer, soils, structural analysis for a civil engineer and so on. Likewise I hope I was able to articulate this properly, and I just wanted to say I really enjoy your content, and look forward to your seeing future content.
I really enjoy your videos, especially since you scuttled the robot voice. I was just wondering, given your knowledge and expertise, if you have naval service in your resume.
Personally, I do not unfortunately, however, I know several people who are close friends who have been/are in the navy, and a family history of naval (and other) millitary service.
The Stevens Battery. You said you were going to do episode on this. I thought you were going on with the ironclad series you started, as this would fit well there.
I have a great love for the HMS Repulse, as it was the first model ship I built. I fell in love with the aesthetic of the design, and the idea of a Battle Cruiser. Also love her ill-starred partner, HMS Prince of Wales. Just the opinion of a Pleb but, their end was not only a tragedy for the loss of life, but also how it went down. It really seems like who ever called the shots on sending them, knowingly sent them to their deaths. I gotta figure that Admiral Phillips, along with Captains Leach and Tennant, plus the Destroyer Commanders had to feel the same as Admiral Doorman would feel at the Java Sea...."There is little to no chance for survival, let alone victory". But he, and every Man in that little Fleet just did the best they could with what they had, and maybe get a lucky few hits and slow them down. Again, I know Jack and shit, and Jack left town, but I would have taken the Hermes along....crawling along so an old timer of a Carrier, seems wiser then to have no air cover at all. Any archaic airplane that could still fly, and could be of even minimal use, give it to the task force. But I of course must yield to the hindsight law. Reading after battle reports of engagements that occurred years ago, gives one insight into a battle that none of the Commanders could see at the time.
Certainly Capt Leach was under no illusions; seen an interview with one of his children who confirmed this sentiment. I think also the problem was, despite Pearl Harbour and the Brits' own Taranto attack, there was a feeling that attacking a capital ship at see defending itself was no simple matter at all. The ease of coordinating ground based air cover was also overestimated, and that's before we consider the considerable problems of inter-service comms that plagued the Brits (consider the 'Channel Dash' as a wonderful later illustration of the issue). All in all very sad. Churchill also must bear considerable responsibility, as the Admiralty was not at all in favour of sending both ships to Singapore but got overruled.
They were sent to Indonesia before war with Japan broke out. They were intended as a deterrent. Combined with the 8 battleship fleet of the USA they would have seemed overwhelming in a traditional naval conflict. The Japanese had different ideas however. When they sailed to intercept Japanese forces invading indonesia, the admiral did not want the RAF to provide cover because he was hoping for surprise. Even though the RAF forces were weak and equipped with an inferior fighter, intercepting the attacking twin engine bombers may have disrupted the attack sufficiently to where one or both ships could have survived.
Let's not forget too that Japan, starting in the 1920s and very much in the 1930s stopped sharing military information on their latest warship and warplane technology. Their secrecy was so successful the British weren't even sure if they could build their own monoplanes or not (For warships it was a little harder to hide their tech since you know.,.. the British did build the Kongos for them and Japan still had to import some ship parts but they could build their warplanes from scratch in Japanese factories). Until the Dec.07th surprise attacks some still thought they might be fighting Japanese biplanes. The Chinese told them that Japanese planes were very good, but the Chinese air force was poorly trained, and constantly losing, so their reports were ignored because everyone thought the Chinese were saying this to save face.
There was tremendous racism against Asia at the time. It was felt Japan was an inferior futal society with little to no technical capability. 1941 was a huge awakening. Japan however still never had a real chance, technology was good, but the industry could never keep up. Had a British carrier been present, it would have been priority 1 and easily destroyed. The two gunned ships may have survived for a little while, but the royal navy would never survive in the far East, their aviation was by far the worst of the 3 real naval powers of the war. Once British decks were full of American planes they caught up.
My grandfather served on the renown, he worked In the boiler rooms. It must of been terrifying down in the lower decks, not knowing what was going on. Sadly he died very young in a lorry accident shortly after the war.
The Russians renamed Royal Soveriegn and handed it back with the main shells rusted in firing position, which kind of reminds one of their jittery fleet firing at trawlers thinking them a Japanese battle fleet, but of course this is not serious history, the Russians probably wanted to honour Squire Rust.
Renown..."the tinclad that became an Ironclad". She was a handsome ship with that tower bridge. As for her run in with the Scharnhorst & Gneisnau (sorry for the bad spelling...long day at work today!) Her Captain never hesitated to attack! I heard a quip about this action as, "Renown...the mouse that roared". Don't know if that is true, but it's amusing. Too bad she wasn't escorting Glorious when they pounced on her. That's a role she would've excelled at! Especially after that heavy AA refit! (In war games, that's how I always use Renown, Repulse, & Hood. They're perfect for the job!)
My father served on Renown as Fleet Signals Officer to the Pacific Fleet in 1944/5, prior to that he was Flotilla signals officer to the 5th Destroyer Flotilla until the sinking of his ship (HMS Kelly) off Crete on 23/05/1941. You have done many excellent discourses on Naval ships but not the J/K class, the most modern destroyers on the outbreak of war, could you do a program on them?
The only thing that was not scrapped was Renowns bell which was mounted in an ornate frame and used to to summon all to grace before and after a meal in my old school.
I for one would enjoy seeing a more in depth comparison of HMS Renown and a Kongo, say Haruna, as modernized. It is interesting that while Japan reclassified their modernized battlecruisers as battleships, the Royal Navy retained the designation of battlecruiser for Renown. While she did indeed have a belt lighter than some of the newest battleships, the overall qualities of her armor as modernized does give the argument for her being a fast battleship some merit. With both Renown and Haruna being ships of British design and both being commissioned within a year and a half of one another.....and both being modernized and fighting throughout WW II in many major battles throughout the war...I think they make a interesting study for comparison. Not a ship per se, but I would enjoy an examination of the American "concrete battleship" Fort Drum. In particular, I have always wanted to know more about Drum's guns. Some sources list it's 14" AP shells as 1200 lbs rounds, some say 1650 lbs AP. This would make a big difference in just how dangerous those guns were to modern warships. An Army fortification built in the shape of a battleship on an island, with powerful heavy guns designed to engage heavily armored warships is quite fascinating. The only "battleship" ever built by the U.S. Army! Irresistible subject for me.
These are great and very interest docs Drachinfel but I hate the endings, always sad, the breaking up these great ladies after such fine service always breaks my heart, I know im a sad old bastard, but im an English sad old Bastard and proud of it!
With her pleasing lines, double stacks and he new super structure the Renown is my favorite battleship design. It is a pity she could not deal with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau at the time. It would have save a lot of humiliation later.
Renown by herself against S & G together is a fight of 1 against 2 of equal firepower, but with the S & G being the more resilient ships. That fight, had it gone on, and been fought in clearer conditions, would not have gone well for Renown.
@@David-vi4ne Thank you. Consider that while S & G's guns fired much lighter shells, they had 18 guns versus 6 on Renown, and S & G's guns could fire at a rate almost double that of Renown's 15 inchers. Plus, S & G had far more and better arranged armour than Renown did.
It makes me sad that Brit government decided to scrap some of your most decorated ships instead of interning them as museum ships for future generations. Warspite? I’d have flown to the UK tomorrow morning just to see the ship.
Makes us sad about the crews of the ships of RN,RFA,RAN,RCN,RNZN and merchant fleet that didn't return home .. our grandfathers , uncles and cousins not to mention the war debt we incurred that every single British citizen as paid for up till 2016
@@chloehennessey6813 That's long term and not immediate, that's like trying to invest on something when you literally have nothing to give. They didn't try because they CAN'T, the cost is just too much for them to even attempt that
I think that had Renown been sent instead of Repulse to Singapore, she would have met the same fate as Repulse. Maybe delayed but eventually would have been sunk. Too bad that Great Britain had to scrap her as well as Warspite.
Did she ever fire her torpedoes in anger? One wonders if a ship of that size justified the space allocated to that weapon system. Perhaps more magazine space for ammunition for her rifles, more capacity for food and fuel, and (projecting the future) more library space for Benny Hill VHS reruns to entertain the crew on long cruises instead?
Renown is the answer to all those who claimed that Bismarck would not have sunk if the crew hadn't set the scuttling charges. Force H was just over the horizon when KGIV and Rodney engaged the German battleship, and the crew onboard Renown could hear the broadsides. When Tovey signaled to the Admiralty that he was disengaging then Somerville started coming up to take their place, only to be told by Tovey that Bismarck was already gone. If the Germans hadn't set the scuttling charges then Renown would have sunk Bismarck with 15" gunfire. Force H had no problems with fuel, and Renown could have kept up a barrage until the job was done. Plus, of course, Sheffield still had its torpedoes, and Ark Royal still had all its Swordfish ready to finish the job.
@@Andrei613 This is true, but remember that at that time Tovey was signaling to the Admiralty that he could not sink Bismarck by gunfire. That is why Somerville was bringing Renown up to take over from KGV and Rodney i.e. if Dorsetshire's torpepoes had all missed then Renown would have taken over. If the Bismarck crew had not set the scuttling charges then, again, Renown would have finished the job. My point is that Bismarck was never going to survive once all her main guns were out of action, precisely because Renown, Ark Royal and Sheffield had plenty of fuel and more than enough firepower to see the job to completion.
@@johnreynolds7996 Quite wrong. Before the KGV/Rodney action, Admiral Tovey specifically ordered Renown to NOT attempt to engage the Bismarck, as Renown's protection was even weaker than Hood's. By the time Dorsetshire moved in to fire torpedoes, Bismarck was not moving. Dorsetshire was not going to miss. And, there was an aloft strike of torpedo armed Swordfish from Ark Royal in the air, and available if needed, which they weren't. The idea that Ark Royal and Sheffield were going to engage Bismarck with their (puny) guns is beyond laughable.
@@Andrei613 It was the Admiralty that ordered Renown not to engage UNLESS the Bismarck was already under fire from other battleships. That was in response to Somerville's request to the Admiralty for permission to engage Bismarck the day before. It was not Tovey's decision to make. Look, sorry, the official record is clear: Tovey signaled the Admiralty that (a) he had not been able to sink Bismarck by gunfire and (b) he was forced to break off the engagement due to fuel. The battering that Bismarck had already received freed Somerville from the restrictions placed upon him by the Admiralty, and so he could - and was - bringing up Renown to take over from KGV and Rodney. That is not in dispute: Somerville's report to the Admiralty of his actions that day is available on the Internet. He unambiguously states that he was bringing up Renown to engage, only to finally be told by a departing Tovey (and his own Swordfish pilots) that Bismarck had already rolled over. As for Sheffield, she was standing by Ark Royal to provide AA cover (as she should, Somerville would never leave Ark Royal unescorted). But if Somerville had ordered Sheffield into action instead of Renown then it is not her "puny guns" that Sheffield would have used, but her six 21" torpedoes. Look, you appear to be missing my point: Bismarck fanboys have long claimed that *if* her crew hadn't set those scuttling charges *then* Bismarck would not have sink *because* Tovey was leaving the scene. That is untrue: Somerville was already moving up to replace Tovey, and in Force H he had more than enough firepower to finish the job irrespective of how long he had to spend to do it.
@@Andrei613 Here, Somerville's report to the Admiralty: www.kbismarck.com/somerville-dispatch.html "10. Orders were received from Admiralty at 1145 that RENOWN was not to become engaged with BISMARCK unless the latter was already heavily engaged by either KING GEORGE V or RODNEY." You are wrong: not only was that not Tovey's decision to make, but the Admiralty allowed Somerville to engage Bismarck with Renown *if* KGV and Rodney were already shooting at her. "61. Heavy gunfire was heard to the northward at 0855 but no report was received indicating what ship or ships were in action." "63. At 0952 a signal was intercepted from Commander-in-Chief, Home Fleet, ordering destroyers to close. Five minutes before this I had informed Cornmander-in-Chief, Home Fleet, that SHEFFIELD and ARK ROYAL had been detached, and that RENOWN was closing him from the southward; I also requested his position, course and speed." So there you have it: Renown WAS moving up to engage Bismarck, and if Bismarck had remained afloat then Renown WOULD HAVE replaced KGV and Rodney in blasting away at the wreck until it was sunk. Renown had plenty of fuel, and plenty of ammo, and Somerville had all the time in the world to polish off Bismarck IF that was required. Look, sorry, you are simply wrong.
My grandfather was on HMS Renown & HMS Repulse in WW2. He died in the 1990s but left behind so much memorabilia of both ships. Does anyone know of any museum who would like some/all of it?
My grandfather went through two world wars, had at least three ships sunk under him and a cold stay in Narvic when the ship he was on was so damaged that they ran it aground so it could still fireits guns. He served on Q ships and so many others that i cannot remember them all. He had a wooden box called a ditty box in which were all his medals and service records, he was gazzetted three times and had some really outstanding medal which my mother agreed to let the war museum have to put on show, that is all but four which were willed to me. I served in the navy but only went to two active service times one on Cyprus and then in Aden but nothing like the sort of conflict my grandfather saw. It might be worth your while taliking the the war museum.
Prince of Wales and Repulse were supposed to have a carrier with them - but it ran aground ... didn't make the trip and wasn't replaced. So - the ships were dependent on Land Based Air - and that just never seems to work - does it? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Indomitable_(92) .
@HiWetcam of, course, the Brits decided 1906 to use oil-driven engines and they occupied Persia. The advantage of oil-driven engines is obvious, better performance and less crewmen necessary. In 1943 Britain invaded with Stalin Persia again. Still in 1953 the MI-6 organized with the support of the CIA a regime-change in Iran and swapped Mr. Mossadegh with the Shah, because Mr. Mossadegh wanted to keep more oil-profits for his fellow-countrymen. How you evaluate the historical chances of the Germans to behave in such a manner like the british fascists?
So many BC's were lost in fights with capital ships. One would expect BC captains would have been trained to make smoke and retire at the first sight of a ship larger than a CA. What happened?
'So many' ? Four at Jutland, Hood in 1941, and Repulse to air attack. Meanwhile, just during WW1, FOUR dreadnought battleships were lost due to their own ammunition exploding while in harbor. HMS Vanguard, Italy's Leonardo Da Vinci, Russia's Imperatricia Maria, and Japan's Kawachi. All four blew up in port between 1916 and 1918.
@@Andrei613 O.K., and you should probably add USS Maine, which probably exploded due to a coal dust explosion in 1898. However, my point is that it seems like BC's were used like BB's when they didn't have the armor to survive direct turret hits, etc. and everyone knew it. Their job was to clear the seas of cruisers, not tangle with BBs, right? Why were they even at Jutland?
@@HSMiyamoto I was focusing on dreadnought battleships. In addition to the four lost that way during WW1, Japan lost a second one in 1943, the Mutsu. Nor were they the only warships to be lost to that cause in the two world wars, as in the first one, the British pre dreadnought Bulwark, the British armoured cruiser Natal and British monitor Glatton were all lost that way, and in WW2, the British escort carrier Dasher, too. The issue of battlecruiser turret hits is not accurate. The cause of the three British battlecruisers that were lost at Jutland did involve some such hits, but was caused by the storage of additional main battery ammunition, including the bagged cordite charges that are used to fire the guns, outside of the magazine spaces, which were reasonably protected against such explosions. That was due to a stupid policy by Admiral Beatty, who emphasized speed of main battery fire OVER accuracy of main battery fire. The first class of battlecruisers built, the 1908 Invincible class, was designed to be superior in speed and firepower to any armoured cruiser, so as to be able to hunt and destroy such enemy ships. Two of those Invincibles did carry out this exact mission in 1914 at the Battle of the Falklands, where they sank two German armoured cruisers. But, as Germany also built battlecruisers, that then meant that there would have to be battlecruiser versus battlecruiser group battles, so both navies built bigger and more powerful ships, far more powerful than the original anti armoured cruiser mission needed. And, in that role, they also took on the primary battlefleet scouting job, to also support their side's scouting light cruisers and to drive off the enemy scouting battlecruisers and light cruisers. That's they the name of the German battlecruiser force in WW1 was the First Scouting Group.
My great grandfather, a British navel engineer, designed the Renowned and the repulse. My great grandmother christened both ships - I have one of the diamond pendants presented to her by the king for this task.
That’s awesome
Amazing. Thank you for sharing. Renown is one of my all time favorite ships. The original design had such virtues that it lent itself well to modernization, and in her final form HMS Renown was a fine ship that served with distinction in WW II.
Your grandfather designed belly buttons?
Your great-grandfather was Eustace Tennyson-D'Eyncourt?
@@garyhill2740Die Renown war das Schiff vor dem die beiden hochgejubelten Schlachtschiffe Gneisenau und Scharnhorst den Schwanz eingezogen haben.
Excellent video. I am from Uruguay, 85. Wish to add that the German pocket battleship Graf Spee was scuttled by her crew off Montevideo on Dec 17, 1939, the very day of my first birthday.
She had battled the British cruisers HMS Exeter, Ajax, and Achilles on Dec 13. (Battle of the River Plate). Needless to say, nobody was at home but my mother and I ; crowds had gathered on the coast to watch the outcome, including my father.
Soy australiano, pero vivo en BsAs. Langsdorff está enterrado en el cementerio de chacarita, no muy lejos. Siempre queria ver su tumba.
My uncle served on the Renown, one of his anecdotes was of being shelled by the Sharnhorst on his 18th birthday he also lost a good mate on operation Torch.
My dad severed on this ship during the 2nd world war as a radio operator in the North Sea, but contracted TB and was invalided out of the navy and sent home.
My grt uncle was a petty officer on renown served in the war I have photos an medals we are so proud
@@christrinder1255 My Dad was also on the Renown, he was also a radio operator. He listened to morse code and could touch type the messages. I wonder if they knew each other?
My Grandfather served as Chief Petty officer aboard HMS Renown,serving as head chef.My Grandmother told me he organised a meal for Winston Churchill and was congratulated personally by him afterwards.
My father Patrick O'Hare survived the sinking of HMS Repulse. He was an AB with his action station in the 30ft rangefinder. Being above deck probably saved his life although getting the armoured door open as the ship listed was nearly impossible. He spent 2 hours in the sea before being rescued by HMAS Elektra. He escaped Singapore before the surrender and served on MGB 659 in the Mediterranean until the end of the war. He passed over the bar in 2019 aged 96
R.I.P Patrick. Thank you for your naval service.
@@mastermariner7813 Thanks Tim Yesterday the 10th December was the 79th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Repulse. RIP to all who were lost on that day
My dad was a radio operator on the Renown but only in the North Sea. He contracted TB and was invalided out of the Navy and sent home.
Fair winds and calm seas Patrick.
The Greatest Generation was just unstoppable.
“ decommissioned and scrapped” it saddens me for a few moments every time I hear that. I know they can’t all be museum ships but it just doesn’t seem like a fitting way to go😞
Yep this ship or the Warspite or both should have been museum ships
Agreed, but the island of Britain would grow bigger at the edges, then rust away because we cannot afford the paint.
Don't remind me, it is very sad. I could cry about what they did to Warspite after all the service she gave.
Guess they can't just put it within a land warehouse or something like that lol
The Hood was often referred to as 'The Most Beautiful Warship in the World'. Actually these two looked much more sleek and balanced.
Pre refit Warspite was a looker but Vanguard just edges her.
@@PeteCourtier Warspite after her refit is beautiful.
@@samuel10125 I know😀 She looked more purposeful with the massive new superstructure but her original form looks nicer. Awesome ship.
The bows look too low. Crying out for an Atlantic bow.
@@PeteCourtier not a fan of vanguard
Renown and Repulse are the most beautiful battlecruisers I've ever seen. Purposeful and cleanly executed.
I'll take one as a private yacht. Thanks!
A BATTLECRUISER for a royal yacht... The perks of the Empire lol...
I think your simple mind took that term too literally. But that's what happens to a generation of people who refuse to read history.
SuperSix Delta
Don’t be such a 🔔🔚
In case you didn’t know, the Japanese Kongo-Class Battlecruiser Hiei became Emperor Hirohito’s personal yacht in the 1930’s to prevent her from being scrapped as per the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty.
I wish that was my royal yacht
@@firefightergoggie I think they were just new to the term and hadn't heard it used before
I appreciate these uploads they give comprehensive data and information on these ships from another age which protected Britain for over 300 years
Thank the Fates for the British Shipyards and their lovely children! And Drachinifel for bringing their memories to life.
Always had a soft spot for Renown ever since I was a boy. Can't quite put my finger on why. Just a great looking ship.
Love your videos but the 8th Revenge class battleship would have been HMS Resistance not Resolution. HMS Resolution was completed and served in both World Wars. Small point but your videos are usually so accurate.
I think these ships are absolutely beautiful, particularly before their rebuilds
Yes but I think it need one more turret.
@@yakumoyukari4405 Why? 4 turrets and 8 15" guns was plenty of firepower.
@@magisterrleth3129 excuse me ? They had 3 turrets and 6 15" Mark I
@@yakumoyukari4405 Pardon me, I was thinking of the Revenge, and since it's name started with R, I always thought they were the same class. I commented before watching the video and forgot about it.
@@yakumoyukari4405 But still, when you're playing around with 15" guns, as long as you can hit the target, that'll do. An extra turret wouldn't make the fire directors any better.
That photo of Renown at 4:15 shows her tied up at Princess Wharf, Auckland, NZ. That little Tudor style shelter is still there.
awesome
Yes, its where you buy your ferry tickets to go down to Waiheke Island. The landform behind is the North shore of the Waitemata Harbour, at this point not crossed by the bridge built in the 1950s.
I've also seen photos of HMS Hood tied up on Princes Wharf too, possible during the same tour. Looking at the wharf now gives a good indication of how huge these ships were.
Thanks for that, I was wondering where that was.
Jeez, they stuck AA anywhere it would fit as time went on. You can see the threat of planes getting serious as more AA was put on. 100 orlikons (so) is a serious upgrade.
I luv, luv, luv, your series on the ships of the REAL NAVY. Thank you so much for all your research and hard work!!!
My grandad Horace Winchester was a boy seaman aged 17 on HMS Renown when it was in Malta.
What is interesting is that the RAF fighter commander in Singapore had organised full fighter cover for the Repulse and Prince of Wales in their mission where they were sunk. It may have only been Brewster Buffalos, but against unescorted high level bombers, they would have had a field day. But the Navy never informed the RAF that the ships had sailed, and so they were sunk.
As the US military learned, Brewster Buffaloes should never have been in combat with Japanese Zeros.
@@rutabagasteu That's not true. It's not like they had an easy time of it - but their reputation was worse than they deserved. Their real problem was poor tactics on the part of their pilots for fighting Zeros and being heavily outnumbered. In any case - they were certainly better than nothing - and were more than good enough to do some serious damage to the bombers the Japanese were using against these two ships.
.
rutabagasteu better than nothing tbh.
The loss of Repulse and Prince or Wales was a result of the Navy's lack of understanding that the age of naval air power had arrived. There was a belief in the statement "no capital ship under way, has ever been sunk by aircraft attack", true up to that point but badly out of date. The Royal Navy simply had not moved with the times and been left behind in thinking, still believing that big guns were the deciding factor in war at sea.
Tango6nf that simply isn’t true, the Royal navy was well aware of the threat of naval air power, which was why they had the most carriers in the entire world at the time. The Admiralty had explicitly warned Churchill against the idea of sending two capital ships to Singapore because they knew two capital ships without air cover would be sitting ducks. The Royal navy had itself been explicitly preparing to use carriers extensively in surface actions since the 1920’s, they had the first purpose-built aircraft carrier design(the Japanese launched theirs faster but the Brits designed it first), they had a developed doctrine of strike carriers, battle carriers, and escort carriers, they developed carrier fighter direction techniques such that British CAPs were more efficient than any other navy, they had trained extensively in night actions with aircraft, they carried out the first significant carrier strike on enemy ships in port with the Taranto raid, etc, etc. The loss of Prince of Wales and Repulse lies largely at the feet of Churchill who should not have interfered in naval matters.
i think my grandpa was a stokesman on HMS renown, but I’ll have to check with my granddad. I never got to meet my grandpa myself, but my granddad tells me stories that he was told as a child. he told me they used to bake potatoes down in the engines (or the part where you put coal into the ships to keep them going) on the pipes, seeing as they were hot enough for that. along with that, i have original newspapers, ration cards, and national identity cards, belonging to my grandpa. we also have his dog tag, with his name on it, but the irony is, his name was spelt wrong. i mean, the middle of a war, and they spelt his name wrong, lol. my grandma also worked making bombs and in the factories. A story i was told about her, was she was supposed to go to work, but my great grandma, (her mother) convinced her to stay home. my great grandma saved her life, seeing as while she was having lunch, the factory was bombed. i will always love the wartime, and will always respect all soldiers that fought, and all lives that were lost, wether they were on the allied side or not. thank you for sharing the stories of these amazing ships! much love, stay safe. (EDIT) Just checked, he was on renown! he luckily survived everything!
There are some beautiful shots of Renown and Hood in Fremantle harbour part of their world cruise along with a number of light cruisers.
My Great Uncle Lieu, (llewellyn Scillitoe) was a commissioned gunner on HMS Renown from 1939 - 1941 and was on her in the SA in the hunt for the Admiral Graf Spee. He was also on her in the North Sea in the action of early Apr 1940 off the Lofoten Islands, Norway and was awarded an MBE. He later went on to serve on HMS Duke of York and was a Lieutenant Gunnery Officer on her which engaged the KMS Scharnhorst which resulted in her sinking. If you are remotely interested in the history and actions these capital ships took part in you should search out their relative war diary logs which are accessible on the web.
The frame at 3:39 is HMS REPULSE on the World Tour with HMS HOOD.. She is inbound to Vancouver harbour, passing between Stanley Park (Vancouver side) and West Vancouver (opposite shoreline) and the mouth of the Capilano River.. Well before our any bridge crossing over (Lions Gate Bridge in 1937/38) My Grandfather was British Columbia Provincial Police in those days and he was part of the security at that time.. He also got a few pictures as a 25yr old novice photographer..
This is a request to cover HMS Ark Royal in WW2.
Will do, it's on the list
The whole thing boiled down to money. Postwar conditions in Britain were quite Spartan with the government straining due to returned veterans, lost colonies, food shortages, etc. It's fortunate that the HMS Belfast was saved. It is also much to the credit of the people that they managed to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
@@scottlange9544 What does that have to do with the WW2 carrier Ark Royal, as she was sunk in late 1941 ?
My Star Trek Online fleet has a USS Renown, a Tier 6-X Inquiry Class Battlecruiser, similar to the Zheng He from Star Trek Picard. Fitting name for the fastest, toughest ships Starfleet ever built. Love the Royal Navy ships of WW1 and WW2. Proud vessels with proud histories.
My grandfather was a in Gun A and then a sticker after it's accident.... He fought in the far East and then left the Navy in 1948 after serving since 1936.. he love the Battlecruiser Renown... And wore a cap with it's ensign his whole life..
Love your work, can you please do a clip for the destroyer HMS Impulsive my grandfather served on in the Arctic Convoys? Thanks
MY Dad was on HMS Renown in WW2 and the ships Crest is on my study wall with my army ones .
Damn, but the Brit's built some great ships. And when they occasionally didn't, they learned, fixed problems, refitted ships, and incorporated that knowledge into new designs. The Royal Navy was and is a paramount example of naval excellence.
This American loves the Royal Navy and Marines. No other force works so closely and well with our navy.
The new Queen Elizabeth carrier is impressive and modern. It is a thing of beauty and lethal efficiency. I miss the old Invincible of the 1980's, but the new carrier is orders of magnitude more advanced.
Yesss! Britannia is getting back into it! We (ANZUS) need the UK in the Pacific. I am also glad that there are US Marine f-35's on board, working and risking shoulder to shoulder in the pursuit of common goals.
The picture of her art 3:38, was on the tour with HMS Hood, as she was entering what is known here as the first narrows.. The Capilano River mouth is on the opposite side and the small cottage Municipality of West Vancouver which in years to come, would become the most expensive real estate in Canada. My later grandfather also took pictures and was with the British Columbia Police Force, which had the duty security for their visit..
Oh I cracking up --- just yesterday I finally caved in and watched the older post with robot voice... aarrrgh!
English Admiral: Check out our slick boat!
American Admiral: Needs more guns.
Not so sure an improved Anti Aircraft armament would have made much difference when Repulse was lost ... PoW was much better equipped with AA but still succumbed to Japanese air attack.
The Anti-Air armament would have made a huge difference for both if it was functioning properly, unfortunately the tropical weather had done their radars and cordite no favors so there was no ability to repeat their good performance in the Med.
When this is combined with the fact that their planned carrier escort, HMS Indominable, had run aground and the alternative HMS Hermes was considered too slow you get a mix of supreme misfortune and reckless rush that doomed Force Z.
@@AmurTiger Hermes had a maximum capacity of 15 aircraft. Even if those had been all fighters, that would not have been anywhere near enough to defend Force Z.
Great Video. Is there any chance of doing an Imperial Japanese Aircraft Carrier in the future? Perhaps Akagi or Kaga?
Sure :)
@@Drachinifel Thanks!
A beautiful class of BC....
Q & A
I'm a little late to the game, but I was just watching your Drydock episode 07, and you mentioned you were an engineer. I'm a mechanical engineering student myself, and I just wanted to say you did a nice job of explaining the boiler situation. Based on your explanation, it sounds like you are a mechanical engineer, and I was curious if this was the case. Whether you are a mechanical engineer or not, I am curious what your area of specialization is, ie thermofluids, design, etc for example if you are a mechanical engineer, soils, structural analysis for a civil engineer and so on. Likewise I hope I was able to articulate this properly, and I just wanted to say I really enjoy your content, and look forward to your seeing future content.
I really enjoy your videos, especially since you scuttled the robot voice. I was just wondering, given your knowledge and expertise, if you have naval service in your resume.
Personally, I do not unfortunately, however, I know several people who are close friends who have been/are in the navy, and a family history of naval (and other) millitary service.
My great grand father spent most of his time during the second world war upon renown as an AB
The Stevens Battery. You said you were going to do episode on this. I thought you were going on with the ironclad series you started, as this would fit well there.
I have a great love for the HMS Repulse, as it was the first model ship I built. I fell in love with the aesthetic of the design, and the idea of a Battle Cruiser. Also love her ill-starred partner, HMS Prince of Wales. Just the opinion of a Pleb but, their end was not only a tragedy for the loss of life, but also how it went down. It really seems like who ever called the shots on sending them, knowingly sent them to their deaths. I gotta figure that Admiral Phillips, along with Captains Leach and Tennant, plus the Destroyer Commanders had to feel the same as Admiral Doorman would feel at the Java Sea...."There is little to no chance for survival, let alone victory". But he, and every Man in that little Fleet just did the best they could with what they had, and maybe get a lucky few hits and slow them down.
Again, I know Jack and shit, and Jack left town, but I would have taken the Hermes along....crawling along so an old timer of a Carrier, seems wiser then to have no air cover at all. Any archaic airplane that could still fly, and could be of even minimal use, give it to the task force. But I of course must yield to the hindsight law. Reading after battle reports of engagements that occurred years ago, gives one insight into a battle that none of the Commanders could see at the time.
They where supposed to have an aircraft carrier, but it ran aground so they had none.
Certainly Capt Leach was under no illusions; seen an interview with one of his children who confirmed this sentiment.
I think also the problem was, despite Pearl Harbour and the Brits' own Taranto attack, there was a feeling that attacking a capital ship at see defending itself was no simple matter at all. The ease of coordinating ground based air cover was also overestimated, and that's before we consider the considerable problems of inter-service comms that plagued the Brits (consider the 'Channel Dash' as a wonderful later illustration of the issue).
All in all very sad. Churchill also must bear considerable responsibility, as the Admiralty was not at all in favour of sending both ships to Singapore but got overruled.
They were sent to Indonesia before war with Japan broke out. They were intended as a deterrent. Combined with the 8 battleship fleet of the USA they would have seemed overwhelming in a traditional naval conflict. The Japanese had different ideas however. When they sailed to intercept Japanese forces invading indonesia, the admiral did not want the RAF to provide cover because he was hoping for surprise. Even though the RAF forces were weak and equipped with an inferior fighter, intercepting the attacking twin engine bombers may have disrupted the attack sufficiently to where one or both ships could have survived.
Let's not forget too that Japan, starting in the 1920s and very much in the 1930s stopped sharing military information on their latest warship and warplane technology. Their secrecy was so successful the British weren't even sure if they could build their own monoplanes or not (For warships it was a little harder to hide their tech since you know.,.. the British did build the Kongos for them and Japan still had to import some ship parts but they could build their warplanes from scratch in Japanese factories).
Until the Dec.07th surprise attacks some still thought they might be fighting Japanese biplanes. The Chinese told them that Japanese planes were very good, but the Chinese air force was poorly trained, and constantly losing, so their reports were ignored because everyone thought the Chinese were saying this to save face.
There was tremendous racism against Asia at the time. It was felt Japan was an inferior futal society with little to no technical capability. 1941 was a huge awakening. Japan however still never had a real chance, technology was good, but the industry could never keep up.
Had a British carrier been present, it would have been priority 1 and easily destroyed. The two gunned ships may have survived for a little while, but the royal navy would never survive in the far East, their aviation was by far the worst of the 3 real naval powers of the war. Once British decks were full of American planes they caught up.
My grandfather served on the renown, he worked In the boiler rooms. It must of been terrifying down in the lower decks, not knowing what was going on. Sadly he died very young in a lorry accident shortly after the war.
My grandfather/pop was stationed on the renowned
Mine too,what did he do?Mine was Chief Petty Officer, in the galley.
The eighth Revenge-class was to have been called Resistance.
The Russians renamed Royal Soveriegn and handed it back with the main shells rusted in firing position, which kind of reminds one of their jittery fleet firing at trawlers thinking them a Japanese battle fleet, but of course this is not serious history, the Russians probably wanted to honour Squire Rust.
Renown..."the tinclad that became an Ironclad". She was a handsome ship with that tower bridge.
As for her run in with the Scharnhorst & Gneisnau (sorry for the bad spelling...long day at work today!) Her Captain never hesitated to attack! I heard a quip about this action as, "Renown...the mouse that roared". Don't know if that is true, but it's amusing.
Too bad she wasn't escorting Glorious when they pounced on her. That's a role she would've excelled at! Especially after that heavy AA refit! (In war games, that's how I always use Renown, Repulse, & Hood. They're perfect for the job!)
My father served on Renown as Fleet Signals Officer to the Pacific Fleet in 1944/5, prior to that he was Flotilla signals officer to the 5th Destroyer Flotilla until the sinking of his ship (HMS Kelly) off Crete on 23/05/1941. You have done many excellent discourses on Naval ships but not the J/K class, the most modern destroyers on the outbreak of war, could you do a program on them?
Good old Refit and Repair
Thank you for sharing.🙂🙂
Please can you produce a guide for Hms Manxman and Welshman too. My father sailed on the former and was impressed by her. Thank you.
I got a pleasant surprise to see my home town Auckland at 4:14
The only thing that was not scrapped was Renowns bell which was mounted in an ornate frame and used to to summon all to grace before and after a meal in my old school.
Thank you Mr. Peabody.
I for one would enjoy seeing a more in depth comparison of HMS Renown and a Kongo, say Haruna, as modernized. It is interesting that while Japan reclassified their modernized battlecruisers as battleships, the Royal Navy retained the designation of battlecruiser for Renown. While she did indeed have a belt lighter than some of the newest battleships, the overall qualities of her armor as modernized does give the argument for her being a fast battleship some merit. With both Renown and Haruna being ships of British design and both being commissioned within a year and a half of one another.....and both being modernized and fighting throughout WW II in many major battles throughout the war...I think they make a interesting study for comparison.
Not a ship per se, but I would enjoy an examination of the American "concrete battleship" Fort Drum.
In particular, I have always wanted to know more about Drum's guns. Some sources list it's 14" AP shells as 1200 lbs rounds, some say 1650 lbs AP. This would make a big difference in just how dangerous those guns were to modern warships.
An Army fortification built in the shape of a battleship on an island, with powerful heavy guns designed to engage heavily armored warships is quite fascinating. The only "battleship" ever built by the U.S. Army! Irresistible subject for me.
Another interesting informative vid, thanks ;).
These are great and very interest docs Drachinfel but I hate the endings, always sad, the breaking up these great ladies after such fine service always breaks my heart, I know im a sad old bastard, but im an English sad old Bastard and proud of it!
With her pleasing lines, double stacks and he new super structure the Renown is my favorite battleship design. It is a pity she could not deal with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau at the time. It would have save a lot of humiliation later.
Renown by herself against S & G together is a fight of 1 against 2 of equal firepower, but with the S & G being the more resilient ships. That fight, had it gone on, and been fought in clearer conditions, would not have gone well for Renown.
@@Andrei613 i think you have a good point there.
@@David-vi4ne Thank you. Consider that while S & G's guns fired much lighter shells, they had 18 guns versus 6 on Renown, and S & G's guns could fire at a rate almost double that of Renown's 15 inchers. Plus, S & G had far more and better arranged armour than Renown did.
One of a few British ships that should of been saved, plus also the last of the British battle cruisers
The two ships were supposed to be attended by a carrier . . . which ran aground. Now THERE'S a "What If" for you. ;-)
Nobody:
Renown and Repulse: Ight ima get a repair and refit.
My all time favourite ship.
Thanks for this 👍
Can see why the Graf Spee didn't want to play with the Renown.
I put my money on Graf Spee.
@@keithmoriyama5421 Then you would lose.
It makes me sad that Brit government decided to scrap some of your most decorated ships instead of interning them as museum ships for future generations. Warspite? I’d have flown to the UK tomorrow morning just to see the ship.
You do realize that they didn't have money to keep them?
Makes us sad about the crews of the ships of RN,RFA,RAN,RCN,RNZN and merchant fleet that didn't return home .. our grandfathers , uncles and cousins not to mention the war debt we incurred that every single British citizen as paid for up till 2016
@@KatyushaLauncher they didn’t even try.
That ship would STILL be a major tourist attraction today; bringing in more money every year.
@@Pvt_Badger0916 All of which Warspite would still be paying dividends as a tourist attraction.
Belfast gets a million visitors a year!
@@chloehennessey6813 That's long term and not immediate, that's like trying to invest on something when you literally have nothing to give. They didn't try because they CAN'T, the cost is just too much for them to even attempt that
An interesting comparison at the end there.
A&A. When did the practice of paying prize money for capturing enemy ships stop? , Thanks.
it hasn't, technically, also its REALLY hard to capture ships nowadays
I still think that when the thought of building vanguard with the guns from R class should have been updated renowns in their final form.....
This was the Everton version to our Liverpool Crafts..
7:54 Looks like one of the Carley Floats was randomly launched into the air.
Looks like a lot of firepower good for smaller prey
So can I think that Renown and Repulse are basically half sisters to the Revenge class?
Can you do if you have not already have done, Do the Kongo class Japanese Battle Cruiser class and the Fuso class!
I think renown was the best looking of the ww2 britosh capital ships
Boy, if WoWs Repulse had 38mm of deck armour, it'd definitely be the most op ship at tier 6.
Do you know if HMS Renown during the second world war lost her 6 twin forward QF 4.5 Mk III inch guns? maybe in a late refit?
I think that had Renown been sent instead of Repulse to Singapore, she would have met the same fate as Repulse. Maybe delayed but eventually would have been sunk. Too bad that Great Britain had to scrap her as well as Warspite.
Did she ever fire her torpedoes in anger? One wonders if a ship of that size justified the space allocated to that weapon system. Perhaps more magazine space for ammunition for her rifles, more capacity for food and fuel, and (projecting the future) more library space for Benny Hill VHS reruns to entertain the crew on long cruises instead?
One of my favorite things about the Renown class battlecrusiers is that I use them to prove that the Kongos are also battecruisers.
The Kongos are even worse as Battlecruisers as well
@@KatyushaLauncher I actually like them, thank you very much.
@@adamtruong1759 Good for you then
Renown is the answer to all those who claimed that Bismarck would not have sunk if the crew hadn't set the scuttling charges. Force H was just over the horizon when KGIV and Rodney engaged the German battleship, and the crew onboard Renown could hear the broadsides. When Tovey signaled to the Admiralty that he was disengaging then Somerville started coming up to take their place, only to be told by Tovey that Bismarck was already gone. If the Germans hadn't set the scuttling charges then Renown would have sunk Bismarck with 15" gunfire. Force H had no problems with fuel, and Renown could have kept up a barrage until the job was done. Plus, of course, Sheffield still had its torpedoes, and Ark Royal still had all its Swordfish ready to finish the job.
The hits to finish Bismarck came from Dorsetshire's torpedoes. No more heavy gunfire was needed.
@@Andrei613 This is true, but remember that at that time Tovey was signaling to the Admiralty that he could not sink Bismarck by gunfire.
That is why Somerville was bringing Renown up to take over from KGV and Rodney i.e. if Dorsetshire's torpepoes had all missed then Renown would have taken over. If the Bismarck crew had not set the scuttling charges then, again, Renown would have finished the job.
My point is that Bismarck was never going to survive once all her main guns were out of action, precisely because Renown, Ark Royal and Sheffield had plenty of fuel and more than enough firepower to see the job to completion.
@@johnreynolds7996 Quite wrong. Before the KGV/Rodney action, Admiral Tovey specifically ordered Renown to NOT attempt to engage the Bismarck, as Renown's protection was even weaker than Hood's.
By the time Dorsetshire moved in to fire torpedoes, Bismarck was not moving. Dorsetshire was not going to miss. And, there was an aloft strike of torpedo armed Swordfish from Ark Royal in the air, and available if needed, which they weren't.
The idea that Ark Royal and Sheffield were going to engage Bismarck with their (puny) guns is beyond laughable.
@@Andrei613 It was the Admiralty that ordered Renown not to engage UNLESS the Bismarck was already under fire from other battleships. That was in response to Somerville's request to the Admiralty for permission to engage Bismarck the day before. It was not Tovey's decision to make.
Look, sorry, the official record is clear: Tovey signaled the Admiralty that (a) he had not been able to sink Bismarck by gunfire and (b) he was forced to break off the engagement due to fuel.
The battering that Bismarck had already received freed Somerville from the restrictions placed upon him by the Admiralty, and so he could - and was - bringing up Renown to take over from KGV and Rodney.
That is not in dispute: Somerville's report to the Admiralty of his actions that day is available on the Internet. He unambiguously states that he was bringing up Renown to engage, only to finally be told by a departing Tovey (and his own Swordfish pilots) that Bismarck had already rolled over.
As for Sheffield, she was standing by Ark Royal to provide AA cover (as she should, Somerville would never leave Ark Royal unescorted). But if Somerville had ordered Sheffield into action instead of Renown then it is not her "puny guns" that Sheffield would have used, but her six 21" torpedoes.
Look, you appear to be missing my point: Bismarck fanboys have long claimed that *if* her crew hadn't set those scuttling charges *then* Bismarck would not have sink *because* Tovey was leaving the scene. That is untrue: Somerville was already moving up to replace Tovey, and in Force H he had more than enough firepower to finish the job irrespective of how long he had to spend to do it.
@@Andrei613 Here, Somerville's report to the Admiralty: www.kbismarck.com/somerville-dispatch.html
"10. Orders were received from Admiralty at 1145 that RENOWN was not to become engaged with BISMARCK unless the latter was already heavily engaged by either KING GEORGE V or RODNEY."
You are wrong: not only was that not Tovey's decision to make, but the Admiralty allowed Somerville to engage Bismarck with Renown *if* KGV and Rodney were already shooting at her.
"61. Heavy gunfire was heard to the northward at 0855 but no report was received indicating what ship or ships were in action."
"63. At 0952 a signal was intercepted from Commander-in-Chief, Home Fleet, ordering destroyers to close. Five minutes before this I had informed Cornmander-in-Chief, Home Fleet, that SHEFFIELD and ARK ROYAL had been detached, and that RENOWN was closing him from the southward; I also requested his position, course and speed."
So there you have it: Renown WAS moving up to engage Bismarck, and if Bismarck had remained afloat then Renown WOULD HAVE replaced KGV and Rodney in blasting away at the wreck until it was sunk.
Renown had plenty of fuel, and plenty of ammo, and Somerville had all the time in the world to polish off Bismarck IF that was required.
Look, sorry, you are simply wrong.
If I may, would it be possible to do a video on the H.M.S. Victoria and the questionable maneuver that led to her loss. Thanks
The photo at 5:43 with the awnings makes it look like a houseboat.
My grandfather was on HMS Renown & HMS Repulse in WW2. He died in the 1990s but left behind so much memorabilia of both ships. Does anyone know of any museum who would like some/all of it?
The National Maritime Museum or Portsmouth Historic Dockyard would be the first ports of call IMO
My grandfather went through two world wars, had at least three ships sunk under him and a cold stay in Narvic when the ship he was on was so damaged that they ran it aground so it could still fireits guns.
He served on Q ships and so many others that i cannot remember them all.
He had a wooden box called a ditty box in which were all his medals and service records, he was gazzetted three times and had some really outstanding medal which my mother agreed to let the war museum have to put on show, that is all but four which were willed to me.
I served in the navy but only went to two active service times one on Cyprus and then in Aden but nothing like the sort of conflict my grandfather saw.
It might be worth your while taliking the the war museum.
hey man love your vids,but coud you do some longer vids, thx m8
Make you wounder why they sent another old battlecrusier Hood after a modern battleship bismarck ?
Hood was available in theatre :)
3:39 is the 1st narrows in Vancouver BC
What are the various turning circles of Royal Navy Ships through the steel hulled ages to modern day ,please
Did any torpedo-armed capital ships ever make a successful torpedo attack?
It's considered possible that HMS Rodney torpedoed Bismarck :)
Thanks.
hms rodney fired 24 torpedoes at bismarck. only one hit, and it didnt explode :P
@@yomommasc well it still makes a record
@@yomommasc I very much doubt that a Nelson class ever carried so many torpedoes.
Are you going to do the tosa class battleship of the Imperial Japanese Navy?
Eventually :)
The renown class were not a planned design, like my brother
Prince of Wales and Repulse were supposed to have a carrier with them - but it ran aground ... didn't make the trip and wasn't replaced. So - the ships were dependent on Land Based Air - and that just never seems to work - does it?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Indomitable_(92)
.
Interesting that from the same original 27ft draught Renown loses 1.65 knots for a 3ft increase whereas Kongo gains 1.5 for a full 6ft(!) reduction
Gneisenhow? GNEISENAU!
Like the human voice nice touch 👍
HMS Vesper
According to my Grandad got about a bit 😃
If you could squeeze in HMS FEARLESS L10 she’s got a bit of a story
The WW1 equivalent of a Razee Frigate
Beautiful
Handsome ships.
Why do battle ships/cruiser have port holes.
Obviously they were nothing else than long pocket-battle-ships.
@HiWetcam of, course, the Brits decided 1906 to use oil-driven engines and they occupied Persia. The advantage of oil-driven engines is obvious, better performance and less crewmen necessary. In 1943 Britain invaded with Stalin Persia again. Still in 1953 the MI-6 organized with the support of the CIA a regime-change in Iran and swapped Mr. Mossadegh with the Shah, because Mr. Mossadegh wanted to keep more oil-profits for his fellow-countrymen. How you evaluate the historical chances of the Germans to behave in such a manner like the british fascists?
R.i.p hms repulse
Kuphal Mission
So many BC's were lost in fights with capital ships. One would expect BC captains would have been trained to make smoke and retire at the first sight of a ship larger than a CA. What happened?
'So many' ? Four at Jutland, Hood in 1941, and Repulse to air attack. Meanwhile, just during WW1, FOUR dreadnought battleships were lost due to their own ammunition exploding while in harbor. HMS Vanguard, Italy's Leonardo Da Vinci, Russia's Imperatricia Maria, and Japan's Kawachi. All four blew up in port between 1916 and 1918.
@@Andrei613 O.K., and you should probably add USS Maine, which probably exploded due to a coal dust explosion in 1898. However, my point is that it seems like BC's were used like BB's when they didn't have the armor to survive direct turret hits, etc. and everyone knew it. Their job was to clear the seas of cruisers, not tangle with BBs, right? Why were they even at Jutland?
@@HSMiyamoto I was focusing on dreadnought battleships. In addition to the four lost that way during WW1, Japan lost a second one in 1943, the Mutsu. Nor were they the only warships to be lost to that cause in the two world wars, as in the first one, the British pre dreadnought Bulwark, the British armoured cruiser Natal and British monitor Glatton were all lost that way, and in WW2, the British escort carrier Dasher, too.
The issue of battlecruiser turret hits is not accurate. The cause of the three British battlecruisers that were lost at Jutland did involve some such hits, but was caused by the storage of additional main battery ammunition, including the bagged cordite charges that are used to fire the guns, outside of the magazine spaces, which were reasonably protected against such explosions.
That was due to a stupid policy by Admiral Beatty, who emphasized speed of main battery fire OVER accuracy of main battery fire.
The first class of battlecruisers built, the 1908 Invincible class, was designed to be superior in speed and firepower to any armoured cruiser, so as to be able to hunt and destroy such enemy ships. Two of those Invincibles did carry out this exact mission in 1914 at the Battle of the Falklands, where they sank two German armoured cruisers.
But, as Germany also built battlecruisers, that then meant that there would have to be battlecruiser versus battlecruiser group battles, so both navies built bigger and more powerful ships, far more powerful than the original anti armoured cruiser mission needed.
And, in that role, they also took on the primary battlefleet scouting job, to also support their side's scouting light cruisers and to drive off the enemy scouting battlecruisers and light cruisers. That's they the name of the German battlecruiser force in WW1 was the First Scouting Group.