For everyone who keeps saying "EMD MEANS ELECTRO-MOTIVE DIVISION", yes, I know, but only when they were with GM. They switched it after they were spun off and the current brand name is still "Electro-Motive Diesel."
It was part of a lot of mismanagement, but they still had a lot of sales even after that. Their failure to develop solid modern engines as quickly as GE was way more of an issue. Not that the SD50’s helped, but they could have recovered from that.
I still have a soft spot for EMD's hood units. The GP-9 looks downright awesome! The high short nose always reminded me of a shark. And the GP-38 is the engine of my childhood, particularly in Burlington Northern's beautiful Cascade green and white
I worked at the EMD plant on Burlingame in Grand Rapids, Michigan years ago. We eventually sold to Penske Transportation of Roger Penske fame, and renamed it Diesel Technology, continuing to manufacture the electronic and mechanical fuel injectors for EMD and others. After expanding the operations across multiple new plants in the area, Roger sold 49 percent of the company to Bosch. The operations was expanded a few more times following that merger, and I left the company a few years after that.
I understand that the focus of this channel is rail. But it's worth noting that EMD also powered multiple generations of workboats. I have sailed on various OSVs and tugboat with various versions of either single or dual 645 and 710s chugging away in the engine room. I've yet to see one that didn't weep a bit of oil, but the big lumps will probably outlive all of us...as long as the engineer remembers to blow the cylinders down before starting from cold. On the water, CAT has taken the lead for newbuilds with Tier 4 compliance. But if you get on something made before about 2000 or so, that is less than 300' long, it probably has an EMD heart.
Believe me EMD is very much still alive in export locomotive with the 710 series and in service in marine use here in USA with river push boats-usually running triple engines. Also tugs.
Interesting, no mention of the SD50 locomotive. If I recall, EMD got a black eye due to the 645 prime mover experiencing crankshaft failures. 645 was pushed too far beyond it's design limits. Too bad.
Agreed. I do believe they were the cause of EMD’s fall as well. They were plagued with both engine and electrical problems and couldn’t compete with the GE Dash-8’s. My dad and uncles all worked for Mo-Pac and MP placed a big order of SD-50’s right before they were bought out by UP. UP inherited those brand new units and phased them out quickly.
Hidy. I always liked EMD of GM better than GE locomotives. EMD's components were much smaller and lighter weight than GE's were, thus making it much easier to tote the part to where tge unit was parked and change it out, pretty much in the same shift and Load Test it and have another "MAKE ENGINE" for our foremen. Tgey had to have a certain amount of "MAKE ENGINES" per shift or their bosses would make it hard on them. You know what they say...Crap runs down hill !!! If the boss caught hell, we did, too!!! Up until about 1985, our shop didn't maintain ANY GE's. Atlanta serviced them. Our shop wasn't set up for GE's. It was rough when we had to start working on GE's because their electrical systems were completely backwards from EMD's. EMD believed that current flowed from POSITIVE to NEGATIVE. So Negatives were jumpered, or daisy-chained, and Positives were switched. GE's believed current flowed from NEGATIVE to POSITIVE. Their coil positives were daisy-chained and their Negatives were switched! GE's had a high voltage room with High Frequency in it that was several steps down from the walkway. You had to go in there at times to get readings. There was so much power in there it gave me the willies just to go in there! I worked on Locomotives for a tad over 37 years. Thank you for your very nice video. I always enjoy-joy learning more about a subject. Here's a little piece of the puzzle for you. Just before the GP49-X came out, NS7000, 7001, 7002, & 7003; I introduced a new style of cable form wiring that God showed me. I perfected and tested it in my little shop at home, and installed it in an AC Cabinet on a GP38, that we were rewiring. A group of fellows in suits were gathering behind me. I had tried several times to get my bosses to let me apply this pattern and they had swept it under the rug, so to speak...but this time, the manager and his anterage accepted it. They wete the two senior reps for GE Locomotives and the two senior reps for EMD of GM. They both liked and adopted it and everything from that point in time, on, ALL their units came out of the factories with MY CABLE FORM WIRING on it. No, I didn't get diddeley for it. My work was ostracized, as usual !!! BUT, I made a BIG difference in those two companies and their product. The new style of wiring cut down the MF's on the line of road by a large percentage, due to the larger LOOPS and strain reliefs employed in it's design. Less lug breakage and easier trouble-shooting. All lables were in front on the bend of the wire. The smaller loops would resonate and the lugs would break off or almost break off and cause resistance and then a fire.
The demise of the Electromotive Division under General Motors was primary the result of their slow adaptation of 4 stroke diesel engine technology. General Electric had perfected high horsepower 4 stroke technological before Electromotive Division first produced a 4 stroke diesel engine. When emissions became an issue, General Electric was way ahead in emissions technology
And yet, GE engines still suck. Catch fire, seize up, and generally just break down constantly. All of those issues are not a problem with EMD. It's almost like GE was selling under cost just to get ahead, oh wait. They did, and it worked. Congrats to them, I suppose. Quantity of quality, the AMERICAN way.
@@archiebunker7688 EMD was the first US builder to market a diesel electric locomotive with AC traction induction propulsion. They also made straight electric locomotives with AC traction induction propulsion.
I worked there when I graduated in 2007. SD38ACe, SD70ACS. Spent time digging through all the old microfilm drawings & test reports of stuff from the 40s and 50s.
Irish rail, or what they were called back then, CIÉ, depended heavily on EMD locomotives. Quite a varied history. Including the GL8 switcher for mainline passenger and freight. The very last true locomotive they bought was the JT42HCW, before mainly relying on DMUs for long distance passenger traffic. The JT42HCW is still used for freight, but the ironic thing is, when they fail for any reason, the rescue locomotive is usually a nearly 50 year old JT22CW
How about doing the rise of Wisconsin Central? It was the largest class 2 regional line in the Midwest, was formed out of unused and non profitable lines which accidentally gave them a mainline from Superior WI to Chicago as well as trackage rights to Minneapolis, they even had a line into Canada through Sault Ste. Marie and the former Algoma Central.
Wisconsin Central still has title to the longest railroad receivership in history; 21 years. The modern WC consists of trackage spun off from the Soo Line when they took over the Milwaukee Road properties. WC owes their success to the very profitable Soo Line.
12:41 A near collision! 14:17 Note: FM had the first reliable 2400HP diesel in 1951... Their demands went to the marine builders... didn't really fail. FM would put their mechanics where the locomotives were being used by the railroads. That made them reliable. Otherwise, most who worked on them didn't like them.
Indeed so good was the SD40-2 that EMD put it in a skinsuit, sold it to Foster Yeoman here in the UK where it became the Class 59, and that would ultimately be that for our domestic diesel loco manufacturing.
The 59 is a very special piece of kit! They begat the class 66 which is much more of an all purpose workhorse and a superb loco in itself. If they killed British loco building its only because they didn’t learn the lessons from America.
@@22pcirishthey sort of did but bungled the 59 was a breakthrough and a kick in the butt for British railways school of thought and the class 60 was more powerful but less effective traction control but privatisation was the killer blow as BR didn't buy any new stock for the last three years of its existence which was a death blow to its main contractors
@@charlesburgoyne-probyn6044 The 59 was a hand built bit of kit for a specialist job. The 66 is a maid of all work. I drive them, and I’ve driven all the old type 5’s. I know what I’d rather have! As good as the 60’s are, and (when they work) they are a superb bit of kit. But their top speed at 60 is the principle reason they are sidelined. Oh, and BR really should have stopped using ship engines. They don’t like trains! The traction control was too good but took up a third of the loco to do. Super creep 59/66 control module, you can hold in your hand. THAT is the difference.
@@22pcirish BR suffered from a closed market tie in also as the GB clearances are among the smallest in standard gauge it meant that foreign locomotives couldn't be readily tested in GB for appraisal. I remember as a young boy with the class 59 passing through Hungerford being a sensation owing to their power, foreign build and private ownership rendering them quite unlike other traction for many years. There is always going to be the horses for courses Vs jack of all trades dilemma in choices , this principle is universal in human constructed objects of use. One of the major faults of BR was the great variety of classes of diesels they commissioned, a disaster for economics Nevertheless there is an element of sadness about the class 60 in that it had admirable features but fated to be an also ran .
Takeover by Caterpillar Progress Rail featured a lockout at the EMD plant in London, Ontario, and shifting all locomotive work to non union plants in right to work states in the US.
The locomotives built in London were the best ones built by EMD. Caterpillar shot themselves in the foot since the ones built in the a-mentioned plant were plagued with build quality issues.
Interesting video. I would have also touched on the many overseas companies all over the world that built (and are still building) rolling stock with EMD drivetrains. EMD is really big into licensing their designs.
Oh yes. One of the biggest licensees is Diesel Locomotive Works in India, they took the designs of the SD70MAC and SD80MAC and reconfigured it to Broad Guage (5ft 6in), with a lowered axle load. These re-designed locomotives are still in service in India, with great power and tractive effort. The SD70MAC redesign was incredibly successful, the SD80MAC redesign was shelved due to poor fuel consumption and reduced tractive effort.
@@prabhatsourya3883 Indian Railways is working to fully electrify it's whole network and is ~90% of the way there, so those diesels don't have much of a future.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis I don't think so. Pakistan already has its own sets of GE Evolution series diesel locos in addition to some old ALCO and EMD models in active service. So they wouldn't be buying export locos from India as far as I can forsee, unless India offers a great discount. The most probable outcome is that they would end up getting scrapped.
EMD does good export business. They have a deal with India, and they just exported 70 locomotives (40 directly made in the USA, 30 assembled in Korea with EMD equipment) to Bangladesh, my country.
BTW,as an aside,GM,as a car manufacturer has also hit the skids! Its products aren't doing so well! The truck division has many unsold units,and there,like Boeing,parking lots full of vehicles! When you have trucks,and SUV's selling for upwards of $75,000 dollars,with no buyers,in a recession/ depression,its a rather heavy millstone around the corporate neck! This is a highly condensed version of the current situation! Thank you for your attention ☺️! Thank you 😇 😊!!
We ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till the stuff really hits the fan, economically speaking. I hope GM, Ford and Ram enjoyed the outrageous profits they made on the trucks, and put them to good use(I doubt it........electrics no one wants). New trucks will be HEAVILY discounted, and you will be able to pick up nice used ones for fire sale prices, from people who have no choice but to sell, and repo's. My Supervisor at work just bought a 3/4 ton Ram for 83k. I told him in a year or two I might take it off his hands for 10k when he will not be able to make the payments on his necessities and "toys", and I am debt free.
You forgot to mention EMD ending production in LaGrange and moving all production to their London, Ont facility with a lot of quality control issues before moving everything to Muncie, Ind in recent years. Alot of GE's recent locomotive success came from GE Capital's ability to offer better financing on their products. Now that GE locomotives are WABTEC and EMD is a part of Caterpillar, we'll see what that does for both brands in the long haul.
Wabfart plant went on strike for 9 days when they took over GETS and 4 years later another contract rejection and strike. It's same GE managers just that they are bigger a-holes and CEO Rafael Santanadana is making 40 million a year and his panties are tighter than a nuns you know what you would.swear he's Justin Trudeau 2.0
Nice video chap👍🏽 I was a GE fan before I know EMD more. After I know about EMD histories and timelines, I switched to EMD fan. I have my own EMD stands for, it is as Elegant, Masterpiece, and Dependable because let's be honest, almost all of their products are elegant which even became a standard in terms of styling a locomotive, almost all of EMD products are a masterpiece of engineering such as the E-units, F-units, GP series, SD series, up to their self-steering wheels and more things. They are also dependable even though isn't powerful, fuel-efficient, and customer serving as the competitor, well, except for the 50-series and the H engine series which is a catastrophic failure that put EMD down. In the export, even though GE was a leader in this market, now most of countries are switching to EMD because it is offering more powerful in terms of tractive effort, new technologies with free training, and calmer approach to countries. Back then in 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, EMD had sort of hard approaching to their export customer hence why they are so popular in countries that had less regulation to import in order to make economy going well things, such as Yugoslavia, Sweden, Hungaria, Indonesia, Malaysia, Germany, Czech Republic, and so on. If GM didn't pressing EMD to crush GE as soon as possible, the chance that GE could now get 70% market share in the North America is low. Because, the main problem is that GM wanted a quality product from let's say a £3.75 in shortest time as possible. How? So, EMD gone desperate and then make the already reliable 16-645E3 into unreliable 16-645F3 by increasing the power ouput to 3600hp without taking notice of the crankshaft, pistons, and connecting rods meanwhile keep pushing the fuel settings to finally produce 3600hp with same efficiency as the 16-645E3. So basically, you got an F3 model that has E3 internals without any changes to suit the needs of an F3. Results? As we all know, lots of breakdowns and things, like ALCo did it with the 244 series, except the 244H a.k.a the 250. It's not just the engine that make it down, the electronics also, because electronics would take more time to test compared to the mechanical things. EMD didn't test their 50-series electronics for longer time because of strict GM deadlines, so, the already broken prime mover are now just accompanied by electrical faults. In diesel-electric, it is a complete failure. The remedy with the 710G3 engine series in SD60 as well as the improvement of electronics is not enough because the SD50 as well as GP50 with 16-645F3B and its electronics already damaging EMD's reputation. The SD45 was a first down of EMD because with the same mistake, making more power but didn't taking notice of the internals, the 16-645E3 upgraded to 20-645E3 but didn't redesign the crankshaft materials to sustain more strain, stress, and flexing (because it is way more longer) yet because the electronics are still in good shape, railroads didn't bother, they simply bought more reliable and efficient SD40-2s while waiting their SD45 in repair. Actually, the 710s have a Tier-4 compliant, which is in the boats. The ship company love the 710 until makes EMD under ProgressRail making a Tier-4 variant. I wonder also, why they didn't making a Tier-4 710s for railroad? And, why they didn't make small engines anymore, because railroads now having trouble switching cars meanwhile the engine is over 50 years old and only have 1500hp - 2500hp. I hope EMD could bring the legendary GP "Geeps".
As far as I know the tier 4 requires a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to make the exhaust burn cleaner which requires urea fluid but railroads don't want to add another liquid to fuel up their locomotives
My father worked at EMD McCook/LaGrange as a draftsman, starting in 1935, about the time they opened. My mother worked there too, until I came along. Probably half the men in our neighborhood block also worked there, all white collar. In 1950, over 10,000 were employed at that location and they cranked out six locomotives every day. All without computers. As a very young child, I remember being overwhelmed by the place when they had their annual Christmas party for employees and opened the place up. Now, all that is left is a corporate headquarters and, I think, just manufacturing of the diesel engines. Locomotive manufacturing ceased there a long time ago, bouncing to Canada and then to Indiana. The rest of that huge site has now been taken over by massive warehouses, distributing all the cheap imported crap we buy from China.
Many of my family worked for GM and their division was sold off just like EMD, Detroit Diesel, among others. They seemed to loose interest in everything other than core auto production. Another point is that sometimes when someone has a really good product, then eventually replaces it, the new product, especially with its teething problems will never meet the expectations based on the recently replaced model. The -2 line is hard to top. The Super Series was a real step up in technology. If EMD had pushed out the 710, instead of pushing 645 past its reliable limit, then things might have gone better.
EMD had line of successful and reliable two-stroke engines, and they were very confident with them. "If its not broken, don't fix it". If they begin development of their 4-stroke diesel earlier, if they have time to improve it's design and reliability... If Alco 4-stroke diesels were reliable from the beginning, maybe story would be completely different.
Not since 2005. It was sold and renamed to Electro Motive Diesel, Inc. which is it's current name. it's kind of like the 'Sears tower' it was always be 'Division' to me. It is detailed at 21:50.
The Progress Rail EMD SD709-ACE locomotives are selling albeit not like in the past. The big issues are Tier 3/4 compliance and not reliability anymore. If you can upgrade a GEVO to a Tier 3, that's millions of dollars less than say a new ET44. Both EMD and GE built locomotives that are ultimately too reliable. Likewise SD80s have been rebuilt to SD70M style models and still have a lot of useful life. For Class 1s, if they can rebuild and meet EPA rules then why buy new?
Ge Locomotives were never Reliable, most never get Rebuilt, Norfork southern one of the best in the world at Rebuilding tryed to rebuild ge Locomotives but gave up on it
@@dknowles60 Las locomotoras de GENERAL ELECTRIC en Argentina nunca tuvieron éxito, siempre se rompían, de hecho, solo hay muy pocas locomotoras en servicio de esta marca, por tirar un número 20 o menos locomotoras, de diferentes modelos, mientras que de GM más en servicio de 100 fácil, y de diferentes modelos. Saludos!!!! @dknowles60 The GENERAL ELECTRIC locomotives in Argentina were never successful, they always broke down, in fact, there are only very few locomotives of this brand in service, for pulling a number 20 or less locomotives, of different models, while GM's more in service of 100 easy, and of different models. Greetings!!!!
In 1955, the DA, a G12 based locomotive became NZs mainline locomotive after the originally intended mainliner, the extremely beautiful and equally extremely unreliable English Electric DF class failed to live up to those duties. Then of course, the DX, a much larger GE built U25 based locomotive took over from 1972. Incidently, those early English Electric DFs of '54 were 1500hp V12s at 1500hp with 2-Co-Co-2 wheel arrangement with the first built of 10 in the process of restoration at Ferrymead museum, Christchurch. 6 or so DAs are in running order around NZ as heritage locomotives, such was their durability.
9:23 While the operating costs for steam were higher, the kicker was the maintenance on them, as they needed quite a bit more then diesels did, rebuilding boilers, running gear ect.. Just getting a steam engine up and running for a days work could take hours. Because of all of this, a railroad had to have up to 4 steam locomotives to cover the job of one diesel locomotive. This required massive back shops round houses ect. not to mention staff, to perform all of this maintenance.
The GM consolidation of EMC is to be seen as yet another piece of evidence in the entire Great American Streetcar Scandal, as well as GM’s way to get a stronger hold on class 1 Railroads.
In 1997/1998 I was in discussions with EMD about a design for a new engine for their locomotive. To be fitted to the SD-45. According to our specs while the SD-45 consumed 188 gal/hr while our design would run on 68gal/hr for the same output. Of course EMD was super interested. We were also in discussions with UP to fund the pilot program by pre-ordering at least 5 locomotives. It all fell thru when we needed Patents to protect our technology and some of our college apprentices had mentioned it to their professor who turned it into a class project -- to make an amusement park 2-foot tall locomotive ("someday in the next 50 years maybe..."). The Patent office rejected the Patent on the basis that this university was already building them in the market. It ruined everything. I can't tell you my thoughts about the small sightedness of professors and many college students.
My gramma would say " damn yowns" around 1990 GE got a govt grant to tinker with burning a coal slurry as fuel instead of straight diesel. It did run but there were issues with carbon deposits fouling injectors and cylinders.
You forgot to mention the licensing of EMD to Europe. Engines and entire locomotives were licensed. NOHAB and others did build alot of on both ends a cab engines for European railroads. The famous US F7 became the AA16 in Europe and was in use in Norway Denmark Belgium Luxemburg and Hungary. They lasted till 2000 by main operators and several got a second live as private engines for f.e. track construction/ renewal trains. The class 66 is also an EMD export design purposly designed for the smaller width UK network that became a succes in entire Europe.
What of EMD's most famous diesel locomotive of all time, the GOAT of locomotives, the DDA40X locomotive EMD built and manufactured for the Union Pacific Railroad.. Even though only 47 were made, this diesel locomotive at 98' 5" in length held a impeccable in reliability record that no other locomotive manufactured in the United States could match. Probably a close second would be EMD's other popular locomotive, the SD40-2.....
Amusingly, that first trip on the Chicago Great Western had the doodlebug hauling a heavy business car all the way back west, which was a significant overload in terms of tonnage!
EMD in London Ontario Built 20 Electric Powered Overhead Wires Locomotives for BC Rail One is On Display in Prince George BC at Rail Museum Very Unique Technology
I had the "pleasure" spending time in a small main engine room on a WW2 LST (Landing Ship,Tank) back in the '60s with two V12 EMD 567s, a noise level few people get to experience...
Tons of information of the various competitors of small, medium and large companies, and the how , when & why the various manufacturers folded, were bought out , and /or eventually were over-run by the larger companies.. Scant and very abbreviated information of why certain designs worked well, and how other designs did not work so well.. No mention was made of the revolutionary air braking systems that George Westinghouse patented in 1869 that made rail travel so much safer... Many Other engineering improvements were developed for this extremely vital industry that vastly improved the safety, reliability and efficiency of the railroads.... How about more of those things being recognized? Just saying...
It's Sad that EMD is not on the top of locomotive manufacturing in North America anymore and screw GM for making a mistake that will let to the rise of GE.
Not 100 percent on them. The two stroke prime movers they use burn oil by design and thusly make it very hard to meet all the asinine new emissions standards. The so called EPA is more to blame than anyone. Look how many SDs are still in service. There are dozens of first generation units like SD9s still in revenue service but only a few U boats and dash 7s and 8s. Heard several current engineers say they would rather run an SD 40, 45, 60 or 70 over whatever GE stuff is available.
@@NarodowyPolski1864 hard to say that either. GE makes junk but the junk is selling due to EPA nonsense and poorly managed railroads. Last I heard GE/Wabtech had in house financing as well making it easier to buy their products. Still inferior but very accessible.
@@NarodowyPolski1864 GE or Wabtech as it is now called is technically on top. But they make a worse product. The market just happens to be influenced by a bunch of impractical outside forces.
EMD started as EMC; Electro Motive Corporation; when purchased in 1939 by General Motors that was the changeover to EMD; Electro Motive Division; (Division of General Motors)
I think you forgot what really killed EMD: the God-awful SD50 models. Those models just pushed the 645 prime mover design just a bit too far and only a few hundred were built, and most of those SD50's were quickly retired/scrapped or converted back to SD40 prime mover configuration.
EMD is still the best of the best even if they aren't the most prolific. Their designs are better and always have looked better than GE. Caterpillar is also a great company even though EMD is owned by a subsidiary company. I just hope someday we have more cummins powered EMD locomotives.
@@ChargerusPrime ...I know what a Cummins sounds like. I've worked with the 6.7L medium duty engines in straight trucks and x15s in the big tractors. When they idle they sound to me like they are going to rattle themselves apart. I've seen an x15 with 48k miles with a giant hole in the block. Although in my small amount of experience with them, they seem to be solid and reliable. Yeah they're cool in pickup trucks because I would rather deal with a simpler turbo inline 6 within that engine bay space than a turbo v8. I would want a Detroit diesel 60 series in a big rig if I owned it. Now EMD 2 stroke engines are great in locos and I would like to see them there forever but we know 2 stroke aren't the most environmentally friendly. Got any other reasons why EMDs should run Cummins engines?
@@ellisjackson3355 well, my experience with my own 5.9l cummins is nothing but joyous running. There's actually already a locomotive with a cummins in it, look it up here on TH-cam. My other reasoning is to my knowledge it's a smaller prime mover that puts out the same amount of power but being smaller it can be put in other engine units. Such as all of amtraks new Siemens charger units which all have them.
Still, EMD locos are using in full swing India where electrification works are not completed specially in Rajasthan and North-east India. I used to travel Dargelling Mail,a NJP bound superfast express hauled by EMD loco, before 2020.Many express trains ran depending upon the power of these locos, but now, all of them are replaced by Electric traction.
Some of it's stuff is very long lived - especially some of the export locos like the EMD G12. The G12 was exporterd mostly to South America and the Middle East in the 60ies. Some of those still run although in my country they no longer haul passenger trains, this honour is done mostly by EMD 710 based locos built in Spain.
I remember being told about emd being sold by gm, but i thought it was in the late 80s and it hurt gm pretty hard. The gm class double ended b class is still being used in freight in Victoria Australia, but i think they were a copy.
So the most efficient way to move crap across the country, the EPA said not good enough, and caused all these issues. We all know that the semi's all pollute way way more than the locomotives do.
I read an article recently that no North American railroad other than Amtrak has purchased a new locomotive in the past 2 years. The dominant market is rebuilds, including the venerable SD40-2s, grandfather loopholes negating compliance with the latest environmental standards. However, the export market remains buoyant. Among others, Etihad rail in Abu Dhabi has purchased a substantial fleet of EMDs for the near 2000 km of new line constructed in the last few years.
I think your article is wrong. A quick Google told me that Union Pacific has purchased 10 all-electric locomotives for switching just since January, and they’d bought some before that as well. So there’s definitely at least one railroad buying
@@michaelimbesi2314 No he is mostly right, fully electric switchers really dont count. The major rail companies are rebuilding older units to avoid the expense of Tier 4. With Tier 5 possibly being ZERO emissions, we will see the new loco market pretty much die. Much like the Tesla Semi there is ZERO CHANCE a battery powered locomotive would work in mainline freight use. If Commiefornia has its way with EPA Tier 5, scrap yards with any halfway decent -2's or -7's will be rolling the money when the railroads clamor for more rebuild fodder. It is a big concern that this is the final generation of diesel locomotives. You can thank Al Gore for that shit.
Not that different to Australia, but privatisation caused it more here, no real new locos in the past twenty years in Victoria that Im aware of besides a few one offs.
On a scale of 1-10, any EMD you get on a train is at best a 5. Especially the 6-axle trash they make*. GE's are like 5-8 depending on how old they are but an AC GEVO is as close to 10 as you could get. They pull anything, their dynamic brakes actually exist, and they work! And the ergonomics are on a different level. Whatever an EMD can give you, a modern GE does better and more consistently. Take the dynamic brake for example, in a GE you can go into set-up and immediately get effort. On an EMD set-up thru Brake 2 gives you shit, then Brake 3 you get EVERYTHING at once, then Brake 4 they drop out again, and so on; like I said, TRASH. And the same goes for the passenger stuff. P42s are good and reliable even despite their age despite them basically being a version of the old Dash 8's, which had their own little issues but, the EMD equivalent to the Dash 8 was what? the SD60? lol, that pile of shit was a dumpster fire. F59s are PURE TRASH. 100% GARBAGE as well, nothing good about them, on the rare occasion their blended brake decides to show up, it's mediocre, might as well just use the BC. F40s, meh, foamers nut all over them but they had little quirks about them, they did run like hell when they worked. The issue was IF they worked. Either way, we were still in Vietnam when EMD last made a good locomotive. *The SD70ACe can pull, but the cab is a deafening torture chamber. The newer T4 cabs they've come out with are a big improvement, but at the end of the day, it's still not as good as a C45AC.
Yeah, what he said. Retired engineer here. GM's final hour was the SD40-2, fantastic machines. Since then I was never a fan. The newer GE's are fabulous!! Its great being retired, that check shows up every month no matter where I am or what I'm doing!!
We all know that OHIOAN Thomas Edison is the American with the most patents. But do you know who is second? OHIOAN Charles F Kettering. Founder of Dayton Engineering Laboratories COmpany = DELCO
There is a large part of the story you left out, the class 59/ class 66, how they managed to take the UK, and then europe by storm and displace pretty much of EWS’s fleet (at the time) by about 98%
I think the reason why what killed EMD was the SD50s. The SD50s were complete dogs--t, as they suffered engine problems (crankshaft failures), cooling failures and complicated electronics which also leads to electrical issues. Also WHAT HAPPENED TO EMD'S PARTNERSHIP WITH ASEA? Yea EMD built electric powered units like the AEM-7 & GMD GF6C
When will the once mighty GM learn their lesson? They messed up several times with small import fighting cars. Corsair and Vega ring a bell? Poor Quality Control didn't help, either. Remember the X cars. How about Chevy engines in Oldsmobile and Buick? You paid a premium price for them and ended up with Chevy parts, along with undersized Hydra-Matic transmissions that failed prematurely. I could go on and on. Nobody in my family drives GM cars anymore. We buy Japanese. Quality, endurance.
They’d still be a powerhouse of it wasn’t for the stupid tiered emissions demands mandated by government. Tier 4 engines are ridiculously over complicated and expensive for the amount of reduced emissions they emit.
For everyone who keeps saying "EMD MEANS ELECTRO-MOTIVE DIVISION", yes, I know, but only when they were with GM. They switched it after they were spun off and the current brand name is still "Electro-Motive Diesel."
Something i've been questioning around. Where is the part of infamous SD50 flop? I thought that thing is the reason why EMD fell down so bad
It was part of a lot of mismanagement, but they still had a lot of sales even after that. Their failure to develop solid modern engines as quickly as GE was way more of an issue. Not that the SD50’s helped, but they could have recovered from that.
EMC and EMD (Division) ROSE. EMD (Diesel) FELL
Back in the '60s and '70, my uncle worked at Electro-Motive Diesel in Illinois.
Why not refer to them how they were known in their “ glory years “ with GM instead of referring to them by the name that drove them into the ground?
Nothing sounds quite like the chant of an old EMD. I grew up near the SP and hearing a 567 still makes me smile.
I still have a soft spot for EMD's hood units. The GP-9 looks downright awesome! The high short nose always reminded me of a shark. And the GP-38 is the engine of my childhood, particularly in Burlington Northern's beautiful Cascade green and white
I worked at the EMD plant on Burlingame in Grand Rapids, Michigan years ago. We eventually sold to Penske Transportation of Roger Penske fame, and renamed it Diesel Technology, continuing to manufacture the electronic and mechanical fuel injectors for EMD and others. After expanding the operations across multiple new plants in the area, Roger sold 49 percent of the company to Bosch. The operations was expanded a few more times following that merger, and I left the company a few years after that.
I understand that the focus of this channel is rail. But it's worth noting that EMD also powered multiple generations of workboats. I have sailed on various OSVs and tugboat with various versions of either single or dual 645 and 710s chugging away in the engine room. I've yet to see one that didn't weep a bit of oil, but the big lumps will probably outlive all of us...as long as the engineer remembers to blow the cylinders down before starting from cold.
On the water, CAT has taken the lead for newbuilds with Tier 4 compliance. But if you get on something made before about 2000 or so, that is less than 300' long, it probably has an EMD heart.
Believe me EMD is very much still alive in export locomotive with the 710 series and in service in marine use here in USA with river push boats-usually running triple engines. Also tugs.
My father worked at EMD in McCook Il. for 35 years. He was a foreman in the electrical division. The stories from the shop floor would curl your hair.
It'd be cool to record some his stories and upload them! It's always nice to hear from those that lived it.
Like what?
Interesting, no mention of the SD50 locomotive. If I recall, EMD got a black eye due to the 645 prime mover experiencing crankshaft failures. 645 was pushed too far beyond it's design limits. Too bad.
Was a little surprised to not hear anything about the SD-50 debacle and what it did to EMD
Agreed. I do believe they were the cause of EMD’s fall as well. They were plagued with both engine and electrical problems and couldn’t compete with the GE Dash-8’s. My dad and uncles all worked for Mo-Pac and MP placed a big order of SD-50’s right before they were bought out by UP. UP inherited those brand new units and phased them out quickly.
Same. And about the same time the 50's hit the market and started having problems, GE had the Dash 8's ready to go.
Hidy. I always liked EMD of GM better than GE locomotives. EMD's components were much smaller and lighter weight than GE's were, thus making it much easier to tote the part to where tge unit was parked and change it out, pretty much in the same shift and Load Test it and have another "MAKE ENGINE" for our foremen. Tgey had to have a certain amount of "MAKE ENGINES" per shift or their bosses would make it hard on them. You know what they say...Crap runs down hill !!! If the boss caught hell, we did, too!!! Up until about 1985, our shop didn't maintain ANY GE's. Atlanta serviced them. Our shop wasn't set up for GE's. It was rough when we had to start working on GE's because their electrical systems were completely backwards from EMD's. EMD believed that current flowed from POSITIVE to NEGATIVE. So Negatives were jumpered, or daisy-chained, and Positives were switched. GE's believed current flowed from NEGATIVE to POSITIVE. Their coil positives were daisy-chained and their Negatives were switched! GE's had a high voltage room with High Frequency in it that was several steps down from the walkway. You had to go in there at times to get readings. There was so much power in there it gave me the willies just to go in there! I worked on Locomotives for a tad over 37 years. Thank you for your very nice video. I always enjoy-joy learning more about a subject. Here's a little piece of the puzzle for you. Just before the GP49-X came out, NS7000, 7001, 7002, & 7003; I introduced a new style of cable form wiring that God showed me. I perfected and tested it in my little shop at home, and installed it in an AC Cabinet on a GP38, that we were rewiring. A group of fellows in suits were gathering behind me. I had tried several times to get my bosses to let me apply this pattern and they had swept it under the rug, so to speak...but this time, the manager and his anterage accepted it. They wete the two senior reps for GE Locomotives and the two senior reps for EMD of GM. They both liked and adopted it and everything from that point in time, on, ALL their units came out of the factories with MY CABLE FORM WIRING on it. No, I didn't get diddeley for it. My work was ostracized, as usual !!! BUT, I made a BIG difference in those two companies and their product. The new style of wiring cut down the MF's on the line of road by a large percentage, due to the larger LOOPS and strain reliefs employed in it's design. Less lug breakage and easier trouble-shooting. All lables were in front on the bend of the wire. The smaller loops would resonate and the lugs would break off or almost break off and cause resistance and then a fire.
We had GP7's here in NZ, but they were called DA's here, which stands for diesel America. I've driven one and they are fantastic to drive
The demise of the Electromotive Division under General Motors was primary the result of their slow adaptation of 4 stroke diesel engine technology. General Electric had perfected high horsepower 4 stroke technological before Electromotive Division first produced a 4 stroke diesel engine. When emissions became an issue, General Electric was way ahead in emissions technology
And yet, GE engines still suck. Catch fire, seize up, and generally just break down constantly. All of those issues are not a problem with EMD. It's almost like GE was selling under cost just to get ahead, oh wait. They did, and it worked. Congrats to them, I suppose. Quantity of quality, the AMERICAN way.
GE had alot of A/C alternator drive technology
@@archiebunker7688 EMD was the first US builder to market a diesel electric locomotive with AC traction induction propulsion.
They also made straight electric locomotives with AC traction induction propulsion.
@SandBoxJohn EMD never taught Thomas Edison how to make sparks or tie his shoes.
@@archiebunker7688 You seem to forget that Thomas Edison advocated the use DC over AC.
Now GE has spun off the locomotive division to Wabtec. So they are out of the loco business now too.
I worked there when I graduated in 2007. SD38ACe, SD70ACS. Spent time digging through all the old microfilm drawings & test reports of stuff from the 40s and 50s.
Irish rail, or what they were called back then, CIÉ, depended heavily on EMD locomotives. Quite a varied history. Including the GL8 switcher for mainline passenger and freight. The very last true locomotive they bought was the JT42HCW, before mainly relying on DMUs for long distance passenger traffic. The JT42HCW is still used for freight, but the ironic thing is, when they fail for any reason, the rescue locomotive is usually a nearly 50 year old JT22CW
How about doing the rise of Wisconsin Central? It was the largest class 2 regional line in the Midwest, was formed out of unused and non profitable lines which accidentally gave them a mainline from Superior WI to Chicago as well as trackage rights to Minneapolis, they even had a line into Canada through Sault Ste. Marie and the former Algoma Central.
Wisconsin Central still has title to the longest railroad receivership in history; 21 years. The modern WC consists of trackage spun off from the Soo Line when they took over the Milwaukee Road properties. WC owes their success to the very profitable Soo Line.
12:41 A near collision!
14:17 Note: FM had the first reliable 2400HP diesel in 1951... Their demands went to the marine builders... didn't really fail. FM would put their mechanics where the locomotives were being used by the railroads. That made them reliable. Otherwise, most who worked on them didn't like them.
The SD 9 is still a hell of a good looking engine exsp. in larger scales like S or O and in D&RGW 1950ies livery.
Companies, just like people, are not immune to karma. GE will meet its fate too at some point. When you're on top, there's only one way to go...
All this battery and hydrogen stuff will probably bite them sooner or later lol. We just gotta sit back and enjoy the show 🍿
Yep
You would be surprised.
Agree 100 percent
Siemens ...
Indeed so good was the SD40-2 that EMD put it in a skinsuit, sold it to Foster Yeoman here in the UK where it became the Class 59, and that would ultimately be that for our domestic diesel loco manufacturing.
The 59 is a very special piece of kit! They begat the class 66 which is much more of an all purpose workhorse and a superb loco in itself. If they killed British loco building its only because they didn’t learn the lessons from America.
@@22pcirishthey sort of did but bungled the 59 was a breakthrough and a kick in the butt for British railways school of thought and the class 60 was more powerful but less effective traction control but privatisation was the killer blow as BR didn't buy any new stock for the last three years of its existence which was a death blow to its main contractors
@@charlesburgoyne-probyn6044 The 59 was a hand built bit of kit for a specialist job. The 66 is a maid of all work. I drive them, and I’ve driven all the old type 5’s. I know what I’d rather have! As good as the 60’s are, and (when they work) they are a superb bit of kit. But their top speed at 60 is the principle reason they are sidelined. Oh, and BR really should have stopped using ship engines. They don’t like trains! The traction control was too good but took up a third of the loco to do. Super creep 59/66 control module, you can hold in your hand. THAT is the difference.
@@22pcirish BR suffered from a closed market tie in also as the GB clearances are among the smallest in standard gauge it meant that foreign locomotives couldn't be readily tested in GB for appraisal. I remember as a young boy with the class 59 passing through Hungerford being a sensation owing to their power, foreign build and private ownership rendering them quite unlike other traction for many years. There is always going to be the horses for courses Vs jack of all trades dilemma in choices , this principle is universal in human constructed objects of use.
One of the major faults of BR was the great variety of classes of diesels they commissioned, a disaster for economics
Nevertheless there is an element of sadness about the class 60 in that it had admirable features but fated to be an also ran .
@@charlesburgoyne-probyn6044 stay tuned with the class 60. It could be that a new, rebuilt, future awaits!
Takeover by Caterpillar Progress Rail featured a lockout at the EMD plant in London, Ontario, and shifting all locomotive work to non union plants in right to work states in the US.
The locomotives built in London were the best ones built by EMD. Caterpillar shot themselves in the foot since the ones built in the a-mentioned plant were plagued with build quality issues.
Thanks for explaining the history. I am now even closer to "knowing it all"!
The 2 cycle SD40's going to notch 8 is like music.
I’ve been trying to get into trains and this video helped thanks
Southern Pacific tunnel motors (SD 40/45T-2) are the most versatile freight locomotives ever produced and any of the SD 70 series beasts.
Them oil can pulling locomotives were neat but they sure were gas guzzlers though. I loved seeing the SD40t-2’s on the SP, SSW and DRGW!
@@chrisg7160 fuel burns out a lot more when it's pulling up a 2% grade in walong (Tehachapi Loop)!
Interesting video. I would have also touched on the many overseas companies all over the world that built (and are still building) rolling stock with EMD drivetrains. EMD is really big into licensing their designs.
Oh yes. One of the biggest licensees is Diesel Locomotive Works in India, they took the designs of the SD70MAC and SD80MAC and reconfigured it to Broad Guage (5ft 6in), with a lowered axle load. These re-designed locomotives are still in service in India, with great power and tractive effort.
The SD70MAC redesign was incredibly successful, the SD80MAC redesign was shelved due to poor fuel consumption and reduced tractive effort.
@@prabhatsourya3883 Indian Railways is working to fully electrify it's whole network and is ~90% of the way there, so those diesels don't have much of a future.
@@InevitableMethey will probably export them to their neighbor Pakistan, who have no working electrification currently (due to copper thieves).
Another fun fact: the 1010 engine is the 265 engine, although the ones they sell now have had their problems fixed with technology from Caterpillar.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis I don't think so. Pakistan already has its own sets of GE Evolution series diesel locos in addition to some old ALCO and EMD models in active service. So they wouldn't be buying export locos from India as far as I can forsee, unless India offers a great discount.
The most probable outcome is that they would end up getting scrapped.
EMD does good export business. They have a deal with India, and they just exported 70 locomotives (40 directly made in the USA, 30 assembled in Korea with EMD equipment) to Bangladesh, my country.
Another fun fact: the 1010 engine is the 265 engine, although the ones they sell now have had their problems fixed with technology from Caterpillar.
BTW,as an aside,GM,as a car manufacturer has also hit the skids! Its products aren't doing so well! The truck division has many unsold units,and there,like Boeing,parking lots full of vehicles! When you have trucks,and SUV's selling for upwards of $75,000 dollars,with no buyers,in a recession/ depression,its a rather heavy millstone around the corporate neck! This is a highly condensed version of the current situation! Thank you for your attention ☺️! Thank you 😇 😊!!
We ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till the stuff really hits the fan, economically speaking. I hope GM, Ford and Ram enjoyed the outrageous profits they made on the trucks, and put them to good use(I doubt it........electrics no one wants). New trucks will be HEAVILY discounted, and you will be able to pick up nice used ones for fire sale prices, from people who have no choice but to sell, and repo's. My Supervisor at work just bought a 3/4 ton Ram for 83k. I told him in a year or two I might take it off his hands for 10k when he will not be able to make the payments on his necessities and "toys", and I am debt free.
Ik people say darkness gets info wrong, but his content is srill fun to watch no matter how much he gets wrong
You forgot to mention EMD ending production in LaGrange and moving all production to their London, Ont facility with a lot of quality control issues before moving everything to Muncie, Ind in recent years. Alot of GE's recent locomotive success came from GE Capital's ability to offer better financing on their products. Now that GE locomotives are WABTEC and EMD is a part of Caterpillar, we'll see what that does for both brands in the long haul.
Wabfart plant went on strike for 9 days when they took over GETS and 4 years later another contract rejection and strike. It's same GE managers just that they are bigger a-holes and CEO Rafael Santanadana is making 40 million a year and his panties are tighter than a nuns you know what you would.swear he's Justin Trudeau 2.0
Nice video chap👍🏽
I was a GE fan before I know EMD more. After I know about EMD histories and timelines, I switched to EMD fan.
I have my own EMD stands for, it is as Elegant, Masterpiece, and Dependable because let's be honest, almost all of their products are elegant which even became a standard in terms of styling a locomotive, almost all of EMD products are a masterpiece of engineering such as the E-units, F-units, GP series, SD series, up to their self-steering wheels and more things. They are also dependable even though isn't powerful, fuel-efficient, and customer serving as the competitor, well, except for the 50-series and the H engine series which is a catastrophic failure that put EMD down.
In the export, even though GE was a leader in this market, now most of countries are switching to EMD because it is offering more powerful in terms of tractive effort, new technologies with free training, and calmer approach to countries. Back then in 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, EMD had sort of hard approaching to their export customer hence why they are so popular in countries that had less regulation to import in order to make economy going well things, such as Yugoslavia, Sweden, Hungaria, Indonesia, Malaysia, Germany, Czech Republic, and so on.
If GM didn't pressing EMD to crush GE as soon as possible, the chance that GE could now get 70% market share in the North America is low. Because, the main problem is that GM wanted a quality product from let's say a £3.75 in shortest time as possible. How?
So, EMD gone desperate and then make the already reliable 16-645E3 into unreliable 16-645F3 by increasing the power ouput to 3600hp without taking notice of the crankshaft, pistons, and connecting rods meanwhile keep pushing the fuel settings to finally produce 3600hp with same efficiency as the 16-645E3. So basically, you got an F3 model that has E3 internals without any changes to suit the needs of an F3. Results? As we all know, lots of breakdowns and things, like ALCo did it with the 244 series, except the 244H a.k.a the 250.
It's not just the engine that make it down, the electronics also, because electronics would take more time to test compared to the mechanical things. EMD didn't test their 50-series electronics for longer time because of strict GM deadlines, so, the already broken prime mover are now just accompanied by electrical faults. In diesel-electric, it is a complete failure.
The remedy with the 710G3 engine series in SD60 as well as the improvement of electronics is not enough because the SD50 as well as GP50 with 16-645F3B and its electronics already damaging EMD's reputation. The SD45 was a first down of EMD because with the same mistake, making more power but didn't taking notice of the internals, the 16-645E3 upgraded to 20-645E3 but didn't redesign the crankshaft materials to sustain more strain, stress, and flexing (because it is way more longer) yet because the electronics are still in good shape, railroads didn't bother, they simply bought more reliable and efficient SD40-2s while waiting their SD45 in repair.
Actually, the 710s have a Tier-4 compliant, which is in the boats. The ship company love the 710 until makes EMD under ProgressRail making a Tier-4 variant. I wonder also, why they didn't making a Tier-4 710s for railroad?
And, why they didn't make small engines anymore, because railroads now having trouble switching cars meanwhile the engine is over 50 years old and only have 1500hp - 2500hp.
I hope EMD could bring the legendary GP "Geeps".
As far as I know the tier 4 requires a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to make the exhaust burn cleaner which requires urea fluid but railroads don't want to add another liquid to fuel up their locomotives
@@davidreyes2298 yess exactly.
Because instead spend more money to fuel, some of the money are spent on diesel particulate fluids.
17:19 DAM, THE MUSIC FROM THIS PART IS AMAZING!
Cool video, have you thought of taking about the big 4 railways in Britain?
My father worked at EMD McCook/LaGrange as a draftsman, starting in 1935, about the time they opened. My mother worked there too, until I came along. Probably half the men in our neighborhood block also worked there, all white collar. In 1950, over 10,000 were employed at that location and they cranked out six locomotives every day. All without computers. As a very young child, I remember being overwhelmed by the place when they had their annual Christmas party for employees and opened the place up.
Now, all that is left is a corporate headquarters and, I think, just manufacturing of the diesel engines. Locomotive manufacturing ceased there a long time ago, bouncing to Canada and then to Indiana. The rest of that huge site has now been taken over by massive warehouses, distributing all the cheap imported crap we buy from China.
China bought Scranton Joe.
@@KameraShy I went to the Christmas parties as a kid in the 1970’s. It was definetly a top place to work. You did OK if you worked at EMD back then.
Its worth noting emd still has a huge market share of the inland river. Id say 90% of your large size tow boats are powered by them.
Many of my family worked for GM and their division was sold off just like EMD, Detroit Diesel, among others. They seemed to loose interest in everything other than core auto production.
Another point is that sometimes when someone has a really good product, then eventually replaces it, the new product, especially with its teething problems will never meet the expectations based on the recently replaced model. The -2 line is hard to top. The Super Series was a real step up in technology. If EMD had pushed out the 710, instead of pushing 645 past its reliable limit, then things might have gone better.
EMD had line of successful and reliable two-stroke engines, and they were very confident with them. "If its not broken, don't fix it". If they begin development of their 4-stroke diesel earlier, if they have time to improve it's design and reliability... If Alco 4-stroke diesels were reliable from the beginning, maybe story would be completely different.
Great expose on historical evolve of diesel electric locomotives .
Note that "EMD" actually stands for Electromotive Division since they were a division of General Motors.
Exactly!
Not since 2005. It was sold and renamed to Electro Motive Diesel, Inc. which is it's current name. it's kind of like the 'Sears tower' it was always be 'Division' to me. It is detailed at 21:50.
@@therockisland it was sold in 2005 to Cat, who then folded it into Progress Rail.
The Progress Rail EMD SD709-ACE locomotives are selling albeit not like in the past. The big issues are Tier 3/4 compliance and not reliability anymore. If you can upgrade a GEVO to a Tier 3, that's millions of dollars less than say a new ET44. Both EMD and GE built locomotives that are ultimately too reliable. Likewise SD80s have been rebuilt to SD70M style models and still have a lot of useful life. For Class 1s, if they can rebuild and meet EPA rules then why buy new?
Ge Locomotives were never Reliable, most never get Rebuilt, Norfork southern one of the best in the world at Rebuilding tryed to rebuild ge Locomotives but gave up on it
@@dknowles60 Las locomotoras de GENERAL ELECTRIC en Argentina nunca tuvieron éxito, siempre se rompían, de hecho, solo hay muy pocas locomotoras en servicio de esta marca, por tirar un número 20 o menos locomotoras, de diferentes modelos, mientras que de GM más en servicio de 100 fácil, y de diferentes modelos.
Saludos!!!!
@dknowles60 The GENERAL ELECTRIC locomotives in Argentina were never successful, they always broke down, in fact, there are only very few locomotives of this brand in service, for pulling a number 20 or less locomotives, of different models, while GM's more in service of 100 easy, and of different models.
Greetings!!!!
nah man all the SD80s were sent to the scrap yard a couple of years ago it was a very sad day indeed
It would be great if EMD were great again
Was at McCook during the Berkshire years... it was the definition of corporate limbo. 😢 Then is was Electro-Motive Diesel folks, not Division.
Dude, you completely skipped over the SD45 and SD50 section of the story, with the latter bit being what killed their reign forever
In 1955, the DA, a G12 based locomotive became NZs mainline locomotive after the originally intended mainliner, the extremely beautiful and equally extremely unreliable English Electric DF class failed to live up to those duties. Then of course, the DX, a much larger GE built U25 based locomotive took over from 1972. Incidently, those early English Electric DFs of '54 were 1500hp V12s at 1500hp with 2-Co-Co-2 wheel arrangement with the first built of 10 in the process of restoration at Ferrymead museum, Christchurch. 6 or so DAs are in running order around NZ as heritage locomotives, such was their durability.
Since EMD have some experience with electric locomotives as well, I wouldn’t be surprised if they continue to sell locomotives far into the future.
9:23 While the operating costs for steam were higher, the kicker was the maintenance on them, as they needed quite a bit more then diesels did, rebuilding boilers, running gear ect.. Just getting a steam engine up and running for a days work could take hours. Because of all of this, a railroad had to have up to 4 steam locomotives to cover the job of one diesel locomotive. This required massive back shops round houses ect. not to mention staff, to perform all of this maintenance.
no mention of the massive failure of the sd50?
The GM consolidation of EMC is to be seen as yet another piece of evidence in the entire Great American Streetcar Scandal, as well as GM’s way to get a stronger hold on class 1 Railroads.
In 1997/1998 I was in discussions with EMD about a design for a new engine for their locomotive. To be fitted to the SD-45.
According to our specs while the SD-45 consumed 188 gal/hr while our design would run on 68gal/hr for the same output. Of course EMD was super interested. We were also in discussions with UP to fund the pilot program by pre-ordering at least 5 locomotives.
It all fell thru when we needed Patents to protect our technology and some of our college apprentices had mentioned it to their professor who turned it into a class project -- to make an amusement park 2-foot tall locomotive ("someday in the next 50 years maybe..."). The Patent office rejected the Patent on the basis that this university was already building them in the market. It ruined everything. I can't tell you my thoughts about the small sightedness of professors and many college students.
My gramma would say " damn yowns" around 1990 GE got a govt grant to tinker with burning a coal slurry as fuel instead of straight diesel. It did run but there were issues with carbon deposits fouling injectors and cylinders.
You forgot to mention the licensing of EMD to Europe.
Engines and entire locomotives were licensed.
NOHAB and others did build alot of on both ends a cab engines for European railroads.
The famous US F7 became the AA16 in Europe and was in use in Norway Denmark Belgium Luxemburg and Hungary.
They lasted till 2000 by main operators and several got a second live as private engines for f.e. track construction/ renewal trains.
The class 66 is also an EMD export design purposly designed for the smaller width UK network that became a succes in entire Europe.
Also some of RFFSA SD40-2 are built from Spain
What of EMD's most famous diesel locomotive of all time, the GOAT of locomotives, the DDA40X locomotive EMD built and manufactured for the Union Pacific Railroad..
Even though only 47 were made, this diesel locomotive at 98' 5" in length held a impeccable in reliability record that no other locomotive manufactured in the United States could match. Probably a close second would be EMD's other popular locomotive, the SD40-2.....
Amusingly, that first trip on the Chicago Great Western had the doodlebug hauling a heavy business car all the way back west, which was a significant overload in terms of tonnage!
Thanks mate. Great vid. Cheers.
EMD in London Ontario Built 20 Electric Powered Overhead Wires Locomotives for BC Rail One is On Display in Prince George BC at Rail Museum Very Unique Technology
EMD stands for Electro-Motive DIVISION!!! Because it was a DIVISION of General Motors.
Once GM divested EMD, the name became Electro Motive Diesel.
I had the "pleasure" spending time in a small main engine room on a WW2 LST (Landing Ship,Tank) back in the '60s with two V12 EMD 567s, a noise level few people get to experience...
I have seen them when touring the museum LST ship in Muskegon Mich.
Tons of information of the various competitors of small, medium and large companies, and the how , when & why the various manufacturers folded, were bought out , and /or eventually were over-run by the larger companies.. Scant and very abbreviated information of why certain designs worked well, and how other designs did not work so well.. No mention was made of the revolutionary air braking systems that George Westinghouse patented in 1869 that made rail travel so much safer... Many Other engineering improvements were developed for this extremely vital industry that vastly improved the safety, reliability and efficiency of the railroads.... How about more of those things being recognized? Just saying...
Just subscribed
It's Sad that EMD is not on the top of locomotive manufacturing in North America anymore and screw GM for making a mistake that will let to the rise of GE.
Not 100 percent on them. The two stroke prime movers they use burn oil by design and thusly make it very hard to meet all the asinine new emissions standards. The so called EPA is more to blame than anyone. Look how many SDs are still in service. There are dozens of first generation units like SD9s still in revenue service but only a few U boats and dash 7s and 8s. Heard several current engineers say they would rather run an SD 40, 45, 60 or 70 over whatever GE stuff is available.
Ok So your saying that EMD is still number one.
@@NarodowyPolski1864 hard to say that either. GE makes junk but the junk is selling due to EPA nonsense and poorly managed railroads. Last I heard GE/Wabtech had in house financing as well making it easier to buy their products. Still inferior but very accessible.
So GE is still on the top I am confused as F.
@@NarodowyPolski1864 GE or Wabtech as it is now called is technically on top. But they make a worse product. The market just happens to be influenced by a bunch of impractical outside forces.
EMD started as EMC; Electro Motive Corporation; when purchased in 1939 by General Motors that was the changeover to EMD; Electro Motive Division; (Division of General Motors)
I'm disappointed that you never mentioned the F40PH once.
Nor the AEM-7 toasters too?
ASEA partnership with EMD for their electric units, ASEA was also the first to introduced the RC series.
Now a EMD/PR Export video?
I’ve live between a yard full of shunting GP9, GP10, SD60’s, SD38’s, SD40’s and SW900s and an old swinging train bridge..
Thanks!
I think you forgot what really killed EMD: the God-awful SD50 models. Those models just pushed the 645 prime mover design just a bit too far and only a few hundred were built, and most of those SD50's were quickly retired/scrapped or converted back to SD40 prime mover configuration.
EMD is still the best of the best even if they aren't the most prolific. Their designs are better and always have looked better than GE. Caterpillar is also a great company even though EMD is owned by a subsidiary company. I just hope someday we have more cummins powered EMD locomotives.
Why would you want to see Cummins engines in EMDs?
@@ellisjackson3355 1 go listen to what that actually sounds like, 2, because it's a cummins.
@@ChargerusPrime ...I know what a Cummins sounds like. I've worked with the 6.7L medium duty engines in straight trucks and x15s in the big tractors. When they idle they sound to me like they are going to rattle themselves apart. I've seen an x15 with 48k miles with a giant hole in the block. Although in my small amount of experience with them, they seem to be solid and reliable. Yeah they're cool in pickup trucks because I would rather deal with a simpler turbo inline 6 within that engine bay space than a turbo v8. I would want a Detroit diesel 60 series in a big rig if I owned it. Now EMD 2 stroke engines are great in locos and I would like to see them there forever but we know 2 stroke aren't the most environmentally friendly. Got any other reasons why EMDs should run Cummins engines?
@@ellisjackson3355 well, my experience with my own 5.9l cummins is nothing but joyous running. There's actually already a locomotive with a cummins in it, look it up here on TH-cam. My other reasoning is to my knowledge it's a smaller prime mover that puts out the same amount of power but being smaller it can be put in other engine units. Such as all of amtraks new Siemens charger units which all have them.
Best looking? Alco PA.
How could you skip over the BL-2? While it is viewed as a failure, only 59 produced. Its design was crucial to the development of the GP-7.
I always thought that EMD means electro-motive division and not electro-motive diesel.
Originally it did.
It was renamed to Electro Motive Diesel in 2005.
Still, EMD locos are using in full swing India where electrification works are not completed specially in Rajasthan and North-east India. I used to travel Dargelling Mail,a NJP bound superfast express hauled by EMD loco, before 2020.Many express trains ran depending upon the power of these locos, but now, all of them are replaced by Electric traction.
Want to go downhill fast? 1 word,Caterpillar...
You gotta work on your sound. Listening to you gives me a headache. Other than that, good info.
I have a soft spot for the GP38-2's. My favorite locomotives but most are now 50 years old.
Some of it's stuff is very long lived - especially some of the export locos like the EMD G12.
The G12 was exporterd mostly to South America and the Middle East in the 60ies. Some of those still run although in my country they no longer haul passenger trains, this honour is done mostly by EMD 710 based locos built in Spain.
Gracias Amigo!
As soon as Cat bought EMD, it began its decline. They care more about money than quality.
Darkness… been waiting for this saga
I remember being told about emd being sold by gm, but i thought it was in the late 80s and it hurt gm pretty hard.
The gm class double ended b class is still being used in freight in Victoria Australia, but i think they were a copy.
What about all versions of the famous F40PH locomotives????
Wonder how much of the 2 stroke diesel technology was transfered to DETROIT DIESEL
Do "metropolitan camel" and "english electric"
So the most efficient way to move crap across the country, the EPA said not good enough, and caused all these issues. We all know that the semi's all pollute way way more than the locomotives do.
GE locomotives aren't any better than the dash 2 line. Those locomotives are stellar. GM just shoots itself in the leg every ten years it seems.
I read an article recently that no North American railroad other than Amtrak has purchased a new locomotive in the past 2 years. The dominant market is rebuilds, including the venerable SD40-2s, grandfather loopholes negating compliance with the latest environmental standards.
However, the export market remains buoyant. Among others, Etihad rail in Abu Dhabi has purchased a substantial fleet of EMDs for the near 2000 km of new line constructed in the last few years.
I think your article is wrong. A quick Google told me that Union Pacific has purchased 10 all-electric locomotives for switching just since January, and they’d bought some before that as well. So there’s definitely at least one railroad buying
@@michaelimbesi2314 No he is mostly right, fully electric switchers really dont count. The major rail companies are rebuilding older units to avoid the expense of Tier 4. With Tier 5 possibly being ZERO emissions, we will see the new loco market pretty much die. Much like the Tesla Semi there is ZERO CHANCE a battery powered locomotive would work in mainline freight use. If Commiefornia has its way with EPA Tier 5, scrap yards with any halfway decent -2's or -7's will be rolling the money when the railroads clamor for more rebuild fodder. It is a big concern that this is the final generation of diesel locomotives.
You can thank Al Gore for that shit.
Not that different to Australia, but privatisation caused it more here, no real new locos in the past twenty years in Victoria that Im aware of besides a few one offs.
You are forgetting that since 2018 GE Transportation merged with Wabtec. So GE is no longer a stand alone entity either.
This was the start of dieselisation movement in the states
Around 1936 full diesel by 1951. Except for the Norfolk and Western till 1961
EMD stood for Electro-Motive Division when GM owned them.
On a scale of 1-10, any EMD you get on a train is at best a 5. Especially the 6-axle trash they make*. GE's are like 5-8 depending on how old they are but an AC GEVO is as close to 10 as you could get. They pull anything, their dynamic brakes actually exist, and they work! And the ergonomics are on a different level. Whatever an EMD can give you, a modern GE does better and more consistently. Take the dynamic brake for example, in a GE you can go into set-up and immediately get effort. On an EMD set-up thru Brake 2 gives you shit, then Brake 3 you get EVERYTHING at once, then Brake 4 they drop out again, and so on; like I said, TRASH. And the same goes for the passenger stuff. P42s are good and reliable even despite their age despite them basically being a version of the old Dash 8's, which had their own little issues but, the EMD equivalent to the Dash 8 was what? the SD60? lol, that pile of shit was a dumpster fire. F59s are PURE TRASH. 100% GARBAGE as well, nothing good about them, on the rare occasion their blended brake decides to show up, it's mediocre, might as well just use the BC. F40s, meh, foamers nut all over them but they had little quirks about them, they did run like hell when they worked. The issue was IF they worked. Either way, we were still in Vietnam when EMD last made a good locomotive.
*The SD70ACe can pull, but the cab is a deafening torture chamber. The newer T4 cabs they've come out with are a big improvement, but at the end of the day, it's still not as good as a C45AC.
Yeah, what he said. Retired engineer here. GM's final hour was the SD40-2, fantastic machines. Since then I was never a fan. The newer GE's are fabulous!! Its great being retired, that check shows up every month no matter where I am or what I'm doing!!
Watching the fall of EMD has been a little heartbreaking for me.
We all know that OHIOAN Thomas Edison is the American with the most patents.
But do you know who is second?
OHIOAN Charles F Kettering.
Founder of Dayton Engineering Laboratories COmpany = DELCO
That X4 Zero theme😁
Do an episode on Winton engine
Electro Motive DIVISION !!!
notification.....ON
This fellow is quite an engineer of talking
There is a large part of the story you left out, the class 59/ class 66, how they managed to take the UK, and then europe by storm and displace pretty much of EWS’s fleet (at the time) by about 98%
White motors did not build trucks and busses in Denver. They were built in Cleveland OH.
I think the reason why what killed EMD was the SD50s.
The SD50s were complete dogs--t, as they suffered engine problems (crankshaft failures), cooling failures and complicated electronics which also leads to electrical issues.
Also WHAT HAPPENED TO EMD'S PARTNERSHIP WITH ASEA?
Yea EMD built electric powered units like the AEM-7 & GMD GF6C
When will the once mighty GM learn their lesson? They messed up several times with small import fighting cars. Corsair and Vega ring a bell? Poor Quality Control didn't help, either. Remember the X cars. How about Chevy engines in Oldsmobile and Buick? You paid a premium price for them and ended up with Chevy parts, along with undersized Hydra-Matic transmissions that failed prematurely. I could go on and on. Nobody in my family drives GM cars anymore. We buy Japanese. Quality, endurance.
They’d still be a powerhouse of it wasn’t for the stupid tiered emissions demands mandated by government. Tier 4 engines are ridiculously over complicated and expensive for the amount of reduced emissions they emit.