As someone who sat through English classes where professors tried being funny during Macbeth… yes, but remember children hate learning and will self sabotage to look cool among peers
I wish that teachers would find out what really interests their kids and get them reading about those things at a young age. That way they will already be in that place of being excited to read.
@@jus_sanguinis Both have their audience, and some of us like both. It's like a restaurant menu: If you offer your signature dish and several other, there's a good chance that you end up selling more than with just your perfectly balanced dish. Thing is that the customers that like your place will not be restricted to go only they want your signature dish, and can invite others that don't even like such recipe to go there, and still have an enjoyable experience.
I think you're right in the sense that a lot of people praise the book because there is this sense of "I'm so smart because I *got* it, I enjoyed it", being part of this in-group, but on the other hand, I think for me personally, I loved this story about people who create so *so* many issues for themselves and others, and they convince themselves it's because of this House, outside forces, when in reality it's because of their own flaws, and they refuse to acknowledge it. And that goes for us, the reader, too, because we *want* the House to be something more, like the characters inside.
@@ProjektTaku "pretentious" is such an annoying buzz word criticism. is everything that sincerely strives for excellence pretentious? is every person that truly enjoys intellectually analyzing and praising a thing pretentious? it's an overused word often representative of empty criticism. people can love things and rave about how they think it's a deep and intelligent work of art without trying to be anything they aren't. there usually are many reasons why critically acclaimed things are popular! and many people who use this word just use it to describe people who conform to a specific artistic consensus.
@@treeigh not really. Pretentious is just getting cocky cause you read or watched something and think your better cause you did. Its a very simple but effective criticism. Pretentious people are people who talk about "cinema" and "cinematic palette" and think their so smart cause they read something that's "unique" and "different" and "underrated", even if they didn't get it.
@@ProjektTaku Calling something or someone pretentious doesn't really add anything to the conversation though. It's like calling something "cringe". If you disagree with someone's interpretation of a work or you disagree with the message of a work, just say that.
The book kind of makes itself the monster. The search for a path through the empty passages is exactly the structure of the house and the book itself. I found the most horrifying sections in the middle, when I was totally sandwiched between narratives and feeling very unsafe.
Interesting. I didn't read the book, but if what you are saying is true, then it is a weak story? Like, in a generic sense it loses the reader. How far can an author manipulate structure before losing credible craftsmanship?
@@MrWhygodwhy I actually managed to read it ever since my first comment. It reads like an experiential art exhibit; ambience is its strongest point. The entire novel is a metaphor for a maze and like all mazes it's got many dead ends and useless paths and like with being in a maze it gets frustrating and at some point you just want out. For the haters of HOL, that's exactly what happens; they stop reading. As for the rest of us we're still stuck there. 3 stars out of 5.
I’ve described it as a spooky onion. It’s got layers and there’s plenty of punch to it, but you have to be the right kind of person to bite straight into an onion.
I read the book twice and thought it was pretty good. I really enjoyed hearing you talking about the flawed parts. A lot of reviews/‘deep dives’ make the book out to be some irrefutable, sacred text, which is obviously not true.
I personally so but just because I love it that much despite its flaws which i personally just dont care about... Sure its kinda boring at times but still fun and great.
I think people are just intrigued whether the house was really occupied by leaves or a family with Leaves as their family name. Then they get something else. Honestly, I don't know. I have a copy but haven't read it yet.
The appendices with Johnny's mother's letters are a very underrated part of House of Leaves. It's been a long time, but I remember those largely being the most cohesive and engaging moments
I only found out afterwards that there was a second code, so I had to go back into the book to decipher them. Made me feel like I personally was responsible for not decyphering her call for help until it was too late. To think that one of the better part of the books was hidden until after I finished it. It adds a tragic layer to Johnny's story, who probably never decoded it.
I think what I like about this book is that it's a narrative about obsession and the way it's written forces you (or at least forced me) to read it obsessively. Navidson is obsessed with filming this house, Zampano is obsessed with writing this story, Truant is obsessed with putting Zampano's story in order, and I was obsessed with figuring out how it all fit together. I spent quite literally all of my free time reading this thing until I was finished. That obsession took a toll on my mental health, as it did for Truant, as it likely did for Zampano, and as it did for Navidson. Your points are fair but I still like this book quite a bit, even though it kind of feels impossible to recommend because of the way it's at its most effective when it's making you miserable
I also got into this completely independently of the internet hype so I didn't really have expectations that it would be a certain way, which might play into my experience
I totally agree on this and suspect it's intentional, considering Danielewski takes the same kind of approach of forcing/emulating a certain behavior in some of his other books (for example, the young girl in vol. 1 of the familiar).
what i like is how you've demonstrated the correct use of the contraction 'it's', along with 'its' oft-mistaken possessive form, all in one sentence. obsessive=correct?!
@@briancarroll3541 That's mainly from reading A Series of Unfortunate Events at a formative age. Correct usage of it's/its is an important plot point in book #3
Honestly I don't think I've ever experienced true horror from media. I mostly just consume horror media for creepy atmosphere and cool visual effects, which is fine.
@@h4724-q6j i think ONE of the only true terror moments i've ever experienced from media has been from a lower budget film than the ones people typically talk about. and by terror i mean, excluding real-life type of horror that things like my favorites (hill house, bly manor) do. the movie As Above So Below. i was already a stickler and a horror snob by the time i saw that and watched it both for premise and title, wasn't expecting much based on the found-footage-seeming aspect, but it scared the living shit out of me. it made me feel as unsafe and shocked as the characters did, while also providing me with fulfillment in similar areas of education that the characters loved lol. i'm not easily scared and almost wish i was, but that movie genuinely made me feel terror lol. i think in a similar way that house of leaves can make the reader feel. Lost. going in circles but still going too far in that it doesn't feel to have a way back around. etc. i think it's a fun scary watch
i went into it without horror expectations and more just wanting to know what the fuck this zampano guy is writing about, how does this house work? I think in doing that I got a better experience of the book, I definitely don't understand everything that is meant to have been conveyed but I enjoyed the use of metanarratives. It was entertaining that zampano could just make shit up like quotes from celebrities in some strange world which is built on made up sources but interacts with itself to be something more than it is, that is if truant didn't imagine everything of zampanos
I have ADHD and OCD, and this book clicked with me in a huge way. The way you can't actually get to the actual centre of the story because you end up veering off into one layer and another and another until you're living a life within a frame that you overanalyse and can't remember who you are and begin to question if the intruding thoughts are becoming you. I feel like Truant represented mental health pulling you away from the story, the frustration you feel at not geting the info you want while hearing an asshole waffle on just sat so well with me and what my life and experience in life has been. The use of empty space and angles with House of Leaves just made it feel more true to how my moment to moment experience can be. Sometimes I end up lying down on the floor with my face down because my balance has gone to shit and the world is spinning after I walked into something while lost in thought. Being medicated has improved my life massively, and maybe if I reread the book these days it might not feel that way, but I think it does a good job of showing how mental health can turn your life into bullshit instead of the story you want told.
man, i also have adhd combined and ocd, there were so many moments where i lost my true self reading this bookz i finished today, and the way thta the author show us how our breakdown mentaly can drag us in the most obscure thing, there's no escape if you don't have the proper help. I'm glad that a neurodivergent bro like me is better now, good luck buddy, enjoy your art journey reading or viewing more amazing things like this one!
I read this book quite a few years ago, and it has really stuck with me. I’m not usually someone with irrational emotional ties to books to the point I reject any criticism, but this book helped me through some very tough times emotionally at a point where I had enough free time to read it in a week. I’ve wanted to reread it for years, but the thought that it may not live up to my own expectations have kept me from ever committing to reading more than the first three chapters.
I did read it again years later, and it definitely held up. One of those 'every time you find something new' stories, since there's enough characters that you can always find someone else to relate to.
@@danielgehring7437 I dunno, I never really liked the many characters in it, as I felt there wasn't enough time to develop them all equally. The book should've been longer to develop them more. But I did like how distinct and unique they all were.
@@ProjektTaku Well, hence my recommendation to read it again. I don't think it being any longer would have helped... it's already a massive undertaking... but giving it a round 2 can definitely help flesh out each character, especially with the appendices.
@@danielgehring7437 lol guess so. To me it seemed pretty short, although that might just be from reading a over 20 year old manga with over 1000 chapters/100 volumes which is still ongoing. A round 2 could probably help.
I think my enjoyment of the book was largely due to the experimental "gimmicky" stuff. It felt like reading a jigsaw puzzle, and I think it made me more interested to keep going than if the same story had been written more traditionally. Though I can totally see why it could be a deterrent instead for people.
I know there's a few commenters who've said similar things, but I actually didn't realize there was so much online hype around this book. It is my favorite novel to this day, but like, I've always felt it wasn't all that deep. I read it for the first time in high school (over a decade ago), and I read it obsessively, the way I've seen a couple others describe. My mental health was already so bad that it gave me an outlet and some characters to relate to. I hated Johnny from the get go, but really resonated with the relationship he had with his mom. I liked the tedious academic footnotes, the appendices, the touch-and-go nature of each section and story (maybe this is a favorite among fellow ADHDers? That would make sense Iol). I never thought I was supposed to be getting a full picture of these characters, more an abstract painting of how their trauma and flaws were feeding into the supernatural elements and making their lives fall apart. The line "Maturity, one realizes, is the acceptance of not knowing" is something that's stuck with me my entire life. That all being said, I was there for the style 100%, and what it hit in my heart personally. It's not genius or perfect and it makes me worried that the people talking about it online are missing a lot of the good stuff in it by thinking of it that way. I'm not gonna go check, though. And it definitely informed the kind of media I enjoy as an adult. I love shit that's pretentious and frustrating and spooky, and at a certain point I had to embrace that. I think older fans of this book know it's just fine, and are fine with that. Very similar to being a Buffy fan lol.
there's not a lot of online hype about it, or, at least, not significantly more hype than any other pretty popular book, enough to warrant the title of this video being what it is anyway.
@@Zionswasdhere are several videos dedicated to talking about this book. Someone literally made a 3 part series analyzing the book with each part being like an hour long. Every single comment I've read on all those videos talks about how interesting the book is. There is a shit ton of hype for this piece of fiction, and its especially impressive for a book to get this much recognition. I've personally read it myself, and it really didn't stick to me like most people said it would. It was an interesting experience, most definitely, but not anything too crazy or deep. But hey that's just my personal opinion on this😅
I couldn't put this book down when I read it a few months ago. I found it really engaging, it really pulled me through. I really got a lot out of it, but I also entirely understand that it's not really for everyone.
Have you ever read Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov? I found it to be structured in a similar way to House of Leaves. At the heart of the book is the poem 'Pale Fire' and then there is a commentary on the poem by this other guy who has some vague connections to the author. Except, unlike House of Leaves, it does feel rewarding to follow the commentary and peel back the story and narrative that's embedded in the commentary which has you jumping back and forth to different sections to pick up different bits and pieces.
Only tangentially related but one of my favorite games is The Beginners Guide. It really hit me in a way that nothing really had before. Then I read about Pale Fire and I was "oh shit, this was a huge inspiration wasn't it". And both are great
Pale Fire is great because you have to take the commentator’s word for everything. At times I was questioning whether he forged the poem altogether. Read up on Shakespeare’s Timon of Athens before starting Pale Fire, too…makes the book all the more hilarious
That one's been on my list, but I know that when I read it I'll just start crying about Blade Runner 2049 again (the poem and book get referenced in it)
Comparing the "backrooms" to the House was way more accurate than I expected. As weird as it sounds this was the first book I read when I got back into reading in my 20s, I totally didn't "get" a lot of it but I enjoyed the hell out of it. It's definitely not for everybody but at the same time I'm saddened when people just dismiss it as pretentious and/or being quirky for quirkiness' sake. I think the whacky design choices were partially "the point," but I also think the author put effort into making each of them work; they weren't just lazily slapped together to cover the books deficiencies, even though it does have definiencies.
I think this book is raw art, the rawest piece of media I've ever consumed. I think what people can take away from the book is often as a result of how people read the book. The most common way to read it is probably 1) reading the navidson records 2) reading Johnny's notes, 3) reading the whalestoe letters (if you even do that). But I gave myself the daunting challenge of reading it as if the annotations were instructions from the author. Everytime an anotation came up, pause, read the relevant section, if there's an annotation there, read that and then come back recursively all the way to the starting annotation. That. Broke me. I know people crap on non-linear structures a lot but this was the best usage of a non-linear structure. When you read chapter 8 of the navidson record, chapter 3 or 4 starts to have quite a bit of foreshadowing, and Zampano's references start to make much more sense. When you read the whalestoe letters when dictated by the annotation, you see the broken boy Johnny was, and how he still carries that grief like a shadow or a minotaur lurking in the corner. I think your criticisms were fair, but this book wasn't meant to be read. It was meant to be felt. After reading the novel I found online that it was the author's fathers death that spurred him to write this, and you can definitely see the complicated feelings he had towards that reflected in the book. I also felt kinship with some elements of the madness. I struggled with mental illness as a teenager, and the hyperfixation of the stuff in the walls of text of obscure architects and writers spoke to me. I don't think it's because it was 'gimmicky', i think Mark's current work is quite gimmicky, but the madness in that book was magic and it spoke to me like no other book could.
Yes, agreed. "It isn't meant to be read, it's meant to be felt" This book is something I experienced with my feelings, my intuition and the nature of my own mind. It isn't something I was reading to observe and think about characters so much as to be inside of the process or the experiential. A friend of mine put it like this: "A horror story about what it means to lose access to your defenses against unbounded interiority" - it's a mental journey, not a character driven plot. I understand if this isn't for everyone. And yes people can be pretentious about it bc it is high concept. It also helps to listen to Poe's album in conjunction. Another felt experience where Poe (Danielewski's sister, tho I knew of her first, so I actually think of it as he is Poe's brother lol) and him play off of each other artistically and in the felt experience of their father's death. I loved it and never felt as if Johnny was an intruder. In fact it felt more like I was reading Johnny and then breaking to read what he was reading and breaking to read what Zampano had "watched" and was making/creating. The pain in the story, at every level, was very relatable
@@IllyriaSings yeah it feels very much as if the navidson record is a more thematic and atmospheric story while the parts with Johny are more fleshed out and character focused. It's always odd seeing how many people discredit johny's parts as I often found them just as if not more interesting at times and reading the whalestoe letters when directed give him so much more context. The greatest strength of the book is just how it is able to make you feel what the characters feel through page layout and story structure much more so than any individual element
honestly i found johnny's sections to be more terrifying than the navidson record. that story about him imagining killing that girl and her boyfriend especially is still the most nightmarish moment I've ever had reading a horror book of any kind@@plugshirt1762
I read the book in a very similar way , although I didn't read the chapters out of order. If an annotation mentioned seeing a chapter, I just made a note of it and rechecked it once I got to that chapter. On a whim, I ordered the book online, and it arrived on Friday. Just this last Friday, to be exact. For nearly two days straight, with some breaks between chapters, I read that book from 5 PM on that Friday to 5 PM yesterday. I do *not* recommend that schedule. It was hard to sleep last night.
Late comment but I've been reading it the same way. Idk it just felt natural, I had faith in the book guiding me from the get go I guess. And WOW it payed of. At some point one of the annotations led me to chapter XIII and the holloway tapes and 1. Incredibly well written, was on the edge of my seat 2. Know what's to come entirely recontextualizes EVERYTHING happening beforehand in such an interesting (and sad) way.
I have only gotten 80 pages into this book, and I think I know why. I am the kind of person who hates watching media when his friends are talking in the background. I often find social media consumption to be more distracting than engaging, including watching films in theaters and participating in livestream chatting. This is normally not an issue for books. Normally. Johnny Truant is the book form of your friend who won't shut up about some inane tangent while you are watching something. I started making better progress with the book by just ignoring the footnotes, however I realized that this means I would be missing out on some important pieces. This conflict between making the book legible (for me) versus making the book meaningful has completely stalled me out and I doubt I will ever finish it.
I’ve talked to my partner a lot about how we enjoy books and I think of house of leaves a lot when we have these discussions. I read it in high school and really enjoyed it and in a way was proud of myself. At the time it felt like one of the most challenging and mature things I had ever read. A few years later I probably thought that pride was cringy and now that I’m even older and I’ve reread the book I think I deserved to feel pride at the time for “getting it”. Back to conversations I’ve had with my partner. We fundamentally value books differently and through our conversation we’ve identified that basically I value concepts more than characters and her vice versa. I think house of leaves might have a cult following because like for myself it exposed people to a more conceptual fiction. You would never criticize a character driven romance novel for only shallowly exploring the philosophical truth of love and in the same way I think criticizing house of leaves for a lack of character depth comes off the same way. The book focuses on concepts and I believe the downplaying of character is a strength. That said I don’t think the book is perfect and I’m not trying to champion it’s defence but I think this idea that some readers may have a value bias that colours how they interpret works. I think a lot of genres carry a character value bias and that tends to be the default criticism. I think an exception to this is the sci-fi genre tends to bias on the conceptual end of things. Maybe this sounds like bs but I just think it’s interesting and opens my mind to just how subjective a “good book” is
@@samwhite4961 Truant was fucked up in a lot more ways than just his sexism. The guy was a full blown basket case, his treatment and attitudes towards women was just a part of that. I don't know how it's possible to read something like Blood Meridian and be okay with the violence because "that's the point" and then squirm when a character is sexist.
This is my brother's favorite book, and has been for over a decade. He rereads it at least once a year, and it has helped him through some rough times. A couple of years ago, he bought everyone in our immediate family a copy for Christmas (including siblings' spouses). Of the five of us who were given a copy, I am to date the only one who's read it all the way through. I used a month of summer break and sat for a couple hours every day with it. I remember it being dense and difficult to follow until they got to the actual house narrative. The labyrinth was the most linear part of the story for me, oddly enough. I did enjoy the novelty of having to literally rotate the book to read things, and having to choose when to read the footnotes and appendices. I don't entirely understand the hype, but for all that it was dense reading, I did like it. I'm not likely to reread it, but I enjoyed it while I did, and I enjoy listening to my brother talk about it and discussing what I remember with him.
I think a large part of the fan base is a lot of people liking it SO much because a lot of people like it SO much, and because it's different. Certain books become living memes. They hit critical mass and the accepted opinion is perpetuated. In theory, I LOVE this book. In practice, I really only remember a few parts, mostly with the house plotline.
I'll tell you why I'm obsessed with House of Leaves: It's a good book. Also, my house keeps rearranging itself, but more importantly, the book is good.
I've only read this book once all the way through, though I've read sections of it many times over. It is one of my favorite books but I think all of your criticisms are valid. You're right, in my opinion, that it is more of am art piece than a traditional novel or narrative but that IS what I love about it. The more I go back to it the more things I notice. The more superfluous bits start to stand out with meaning and Johnny's parts of the story becomes less and less a chore to get through. The letters in the back are what really bring me into the Johnny narrative. There are some fascinating ways to interpret them and his whole relationship with his mom.
I 100% agree. I feel like Johnny is the emotional core of the story. The whalestoe letters and the quotes in the back open up a whole new emotional and thematic richness. I think I saw a comment back when I was reading it that you had to read the letters in the back to truly understand, and I scoffed because it sounded so pretentious, but then I got there and it really did do it for me.
Hard disagree on female characters being one dimensional. While she doesn't often have her feelings narrated to the audience, seeing how Karen struggles to deal with the impossibility of the House and with Navidson's growing obsession, as well as hearing through interviews how people in Karen's life feel about her made her one of my favorite characters in the book. As for Thumper, it makes sense for her to be partially flat given that Johnny had so little actual interaction with her, with her basically just being Johnny's freudian idealized form of both mother and lover. She's always kept at a distance in terms of what we know about her because Johnny himself is practically only seeing her through a glass wall. He can see and talk to her, but he'll never be part of her life.
Isn’t the whole point you made about Thumper exactly what the TH-camr was talking about when he said books get away with doing things poorly because that’s the “point”? Yeah, there’s a reason she’s rendered flat but even you admit she is rendered flat. I really don’t understand how you can use that example to disagree about the female characters being one dimensional.
I tend to agree, though what I really respect 'House of Leaves' for is its effort (and, in my opinion, successful effort) to render its medium essential to its experience. It's one of few books that demands to be read as a physical book while remaining altogether immune to adaptation (whether into film, television, or audiobook), and I believe that is quite an achievement.
I think it's interesting you point out the work that goes into engaging with this book. House of Leaves is one of my favorite reading experiences in recent years, but very notably it is WORK to read. Although I may have in general gotten more imapcted by the horror in the book than you, I think much of my enjoyment of the book was that reading it reminded me of doing academic research in college. The inevitable and frustrating process of researching for a thesis and getting tied up in connected texts and annotations and bibliographies for hours, and all just to get a source for a single piece of evidence that makes an appearance in one paragraph of the entire work. I can't say that process is fun, neither in reading nor in academia, but it's a process I get a weird enjoyment out of. This book for me was like that work but all connected to an interesting and riveting horror narrative. I think that's why I liked it, but at the same time, it absolutely makes sense that another reader would find that exact fact about the book's style arduous and unrewarding. Really great video, I'm always excited whenever you upload book analysis
I just finished Five Decembers ten minutes ago on your recommendation and it was fucking amazing. Thank you for that experience. Only got 120 pages into House of Leaves, one day I'll finish it. Edit: Please recommend me mindfucky sci-fi or just psychological mystery/supsense with supernatural twists people :D
it may be that your skits are so short and reliably funny, but i love to click on your videos. when it's something even more engaging, I pause and i thank you from the bottom of my heart. I don't read enough but I began buying books again but only from the specific authors (and manga creators), because I just don't like reading. But these kinds of videos light a kind of fire under my ass no other videos on youtube can ever achieve.
I first read this book in high school in 2006 and loved it. Since then, I have become an avid reader of all genres, especially horror. I reread this book about a month ago and found it to be an unbearable experience.
Never heard of this one before. It sounds like it’s a Homestuck kind of situation where the story itself is just so logistically arduous to consume that people who get through it feel like it was more engaging than it actually was due to it being such a demanding read
The only book I've read more than once (I don't read a lot of books at all mind you) was Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. I just really like how mundane and academic it makes early 18th century magic, and then uses that academic footnotes in the book throughout for exposition.
House of Leaves was gifted to me by my literature professor he said I had a creative mind and would appreciate the intriguing way this story was told and he was right I absolutely loved the feeling of cosmic horror and uncertainty reading it and knowing this book can't work as a audio format nor a movie it has to be read. I find it oddly ironic that Man Carrying things seemed to find gimmicks inside the story but started off with an ad for a kickstarter book about silver shiny covers and maps instead of what the story is and why I should read it (it won awards. Okay) . I personally get disinterested when a book cover has that much shine and "extra things" gimmicks to it. BUT That's just me, I don't want to kick a man carrying things not to get his ad revenue. Just found a funny disconnect how I saw this video.
I think the difference is he was advertising for what it was. The Kickstarter is for the shiny covers and fun stuff. You can already get the book without all that and a less superficial look probably needs more time anyway
there’s a difference bw how a book is packaged and its actual contents. how he describes it, one is a shiny box with a nice treat inside. the other is a box that says all other boxes are boring but is empty inside.
@TagardMC. Right, the cosmic horror was lovely and the mental journey and cosmic horror inside of the minds of the people we are experiencing. Really enjoyed this book
While I agree with most of this video, I still intensely loved the whole experience of going through HoL. The late nights skimming through footnotes and highlighting seemingly important stuff felt like being back at university, doing obscure research. I would often skip the more frustrating sections, which honestly did feel intentional, like rummaging through a bunch of unorganized sources in search for proof. Among all of this, the „aha!” moments felt super rewarding to me. And you’re right, reading about it online felt like a huge bonus. I spent a good few weeks looking through forums, and even got into the HoL-inspired album written by Danielewski’s sister. All in all, despite its numerous flaws, it’s one of my favorite books. And I wouldn’t recommend it to most people. 😅
Highly recommend Erasure by Percival Everett. Not an experimental novel per se but there’s a great use of the “novel within a novel” device that sort of critiques the “poor writing is the point” trope.
I bought this book a few years ago while I was at Barnes & Noble‘s. This book caught my eye and I bought it without really knowing anything about it. It’s been sitting on my shelf ever since I bought it for some reason I just never started reading it. It’s so funny that I am now being shown this TH-cam video about it seems like I’ll have to pick it up and read it now.
Yeah! During SEW video I just though "That's gonna be my brother's Christmas present! Perfect for him!"...and now I am doubtful. 😅 I guess, I am gonna read it my self first.
That was my second time. The firstwas that guy that comments on video games and books. Anyway, since then I've been seeking the book and found this review very helpful
There’s also the infinite loop of thinking about Alan Wake, thinking about Haunted by Poe from the games soundtrack, then remembering the singer of Poe is the sister of the author of House of Leaves and that that album and this book are related and then you forget about them, but Alan Wale 2 is announced and you remember about House of Leaves again.
I enjoyed looking like a crazy person turning this book this way and that while reading it at a café. I did get through it in the end, but only because I was invested in the spooky house story.
This is not a gothic or horror novel. It’s not a book about a strange house. This is a book about a young, very smart guy that suffers from being almost killed by his schizophrenic mother as a small child, being mistreated by his foster father, losing his mother, losing his best friend and slipping into a serious psychosis. It‘s a novel about child abuse an early childhood trauma. And about the thinking processes of a schizophrenic person. It‘s so fascinating. One of the most inspiring reading experiences.
HOL is one of my 2 favorite books of all-time. I think you hit the nail on the head, 'you get out, what you put into it' which is why it has such a strong affect on some people. The other book i had a similar feeling with was 100 years of solitude.
I was recommended this book on an internet chatroom (no way this could ever date itself) once. Completely forgot about it until now. Guess I'm in a similar boat then.
To me, it's about about intertexts sometimes leading to non existant texts and we are a world of hypertexts sometimes leading to fake news. I developed a psychosis being obsessed by connecting everything. So, yeah, I get it in an intimate way.
I asked for this book as a birthday gift about a decade ago after going on various forums looking for dread-inducing, creepy atmospheric horror novel recommendations. I must have tried getting through it about 5 times by now and the furthest I have ever got was about half-way. It actually annoyed me so much that I couldn't get through the back and forth commitment that this novel requires of the reader that it stopped me from reading anything entirely for several years. It's been on my bedside table constantly as a reminder that I still need to revisit and finish it. I don't know if it is a pretentiousness, that you mentioned, how some of the characters come off as or, as you stated, the gimmicky nature of the book or something entirely different. I want to finish it, but I get tired thinking about finishing it before I even open up the book again. I have mentioned this book to so many people and flicked through the pages to show them how weird it gets with the experimental use of words (or lack of any) on certain pages, but have never recommended it despite it having one or two pretty effective horror moments, that have already been explored many times since in other mediums such as film. I know that liminal space horror has had a recent surge in popularity with "The Back Rooms" found footage memes that have come back into fashion recently and it's been boosted by a lot of creative collectives and individuals such as Kane Pixels (who you have featured in this video) and upcoming projects such as Skinamarink by Bightsized Nightmares. I find that stuff pretty cool and unsettling, but I worry now that when I do eventually finish this book that I will have already seen what it has to offer elsewhere. I hope it is worth it.
A lot of the gimmicky sections are just to create a certain mood or make the reader disoriented. You can skip over some sections once you see what is meaningless text for effect.
I really don‘t don't think it is worth it. P.T. Captured what this book was going for with a single hallway, without all the terible dialogue and tedium. Tedium I would be all for if it was in the hands of a great writer Read Anne Rice‘s Lives of the Mayfair Witches series if you want great horror in novel form.
It was a big chore to get through some of this book, but I'm glad I did, the house sections are a real treasure. I came away with huge respect for the artistry involved in creating the physical book itself. If you're struggling, the trick is to SKIM THE SHIT OUT OF FOOTNOTES, especially Zampano's never ending lists.
WTH like 60% of the story and themes is in the notes, if you burnt yourself out by only reading the ones you obviously weren't supposed to read that's entirely on you.
It really is a special book. I think any art that plays with format and challenges preconceived notions should be absolutely cherished regardless of overall quality. Twin Peaks, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Metal Gear Solid 2, James Joyce's Ulysses, Everythint At the end of Time, Yume Nikki, hell even TH-cam's Alan Tutorial or Lasagne Cat should all be appreciated for deconstructing their respective mediums.
I haven't ever read House Of Leaves but I heard about it in a Jacob Geller video once. Maybe the thing driving this phenomena is that the internet favors people extolling their extreme actions? It's less extreme to consider a book not worth your time than to make it through a difficult and weird book that's allegedly "only good if you're miserable from reading it" or something. I'd love to hear Man's thoughts on Infinite Jest because its got a similar thing going on.
bruh the book doesn't make you miserable from reading it. Why would you assume what someone says about a book is objectively right when you haven't even read the book? Most of his criticisms aren't correct or come down to personal preference. The only real issue of the book is poorly fleshed out side characters but it rarely subtracts that greatly from the actual experience
I was wondering when someone was gonna bring up Infinite Jest. I’ve read both and while they’re both challenging, House of Leaves feels like a book that desperately wants to be completed and is willing to help you get there; and while it’s not like Infinite Jest doesn’t care about the reader, I feel like it’s generally much more aloof by comparison.
@@plugshirt1762eh, I've read the book, and I thought it was kinda cool. But I don't think the journey nor the destination we're worth it. The actual characters do subtract from the experience for me at least. Since it is an experience, everyone will come out of it with a different perspective or opinion on it. I spent a good amount of time on it, and while it was definitely an interesting experience, I don't think it was all that. I went in with no expectations for this book and came out surprised but not amazed or anything like that
@@plugshirt1762I think this book should be more "felt" or "experienced" rather than truly read, as it isn't a traditional book. But obviously people have different feelings, experiences, and perspectives. So people are gonna have different opinions on this type of book.
@@idk35740 Yeah by it's nature it's definitely very divisive. I felt as if the actual content in terms of story, characters, and the such was done very well but definitely isn't the main thing that makes the book good. The main thing that made it so fun to read is when you follow along and read as it directs you it feels so disorienting and makes you really feel the horror and insanity the characters are going through especially with the maze chapter if you actually read all the nonsense dead ends in the chapter. As you said it's more of an experience which is why for some people it will feel profound and amazing while for others it doesn't really elicit that same feeling. It's always odd experiencing media such as this as the actual quality hinges solely on how much it manages to connect to you and usually not much more. Media I've seen like shadow of the colossus or 2001 are lauded by many for how great they are but then I experience them and just walk away feeling like they're alright. It's always interesting how much of a dice roll it is whether it will or won't mean anything to you.
An old friend of mine is obsessed with this book. They were so romantic about trying to solve the mystery of this book that has no answers. A Winchester house of a book. I haven't finished it but there is some poetic lines in this book. Everytime I read it, I see them through the lines.
House of Leaves is a very cool idea for a book. I think at its core the book is about about the relationship between people and art. Zampano obsessed over House of Leaves much how Navidson obsessed over his documentary and photography. Johnny's fascination with House of Leaves turned to an obsession as his own mental health spiralled out of control. We use art to understand more about ourselves whether as a creator or an observer. my 2 cents.
I adore this book and have read it like five times, but I agree with a lot of the frustrations you listed here. In particular, I think about the scene early on where Johnny goes on a drive with Kyrie, which includes one of my favorite lines in any sex scene ever: "the longest unzipping of my life". But I heard that line first in the remix of "Hey Pretty" by the author's sister Poe, over which he reads an abridged version of this scene and breaks from the chorus right after this line. All of which helps it land way more strongly than it does in the book, where it's just one phrase in the middle of a giant, rambling Johnny sentence. Still love the book though, and also Poe deserves way more love because her music absolutely slaps.
I never knew that there were these sort of internet nuances about this book. Personally, I'm a huge sucker for horror stories like this. A house that's changing in subtle or huge ways is one of the coolest horror concepts next to doppelgangers I can think of.
I love this book, read it twice. Was going to write a big long butt-mad defense when this came out. But someone I know just bought it and literally the first thing they did was ask someone "you ever heard of house of leaves?" Then flipped through it to show them the weird bits. so shoot, guess ya got me there
Funny enough I am currently reading this book and half way finished that too with great difficulty. Agree with all your points. The first thing I noticed was how terribly the female characters were written. Second was how endless this book seems just like the house at Ash Tree Lane. The only reason I haven't given up is because this book was quite an expensive purchase and I keep having hopes that it will be good at some point
Yeah, I understand that if you're expecting too much from a novel - or any piece of art, for that matter - because of the hype surrounding it, the intellectual material itself can be quite disenchanting. However: I've read and bought House of Leaves three times now, after bumping into it as a twentysomething, in a book store during the early 2000s. It is a magnificent yarn, but faces the same problem as Infinite Jest: the volume is intimidating at first, but once you get stuck in the various narratives, it's hard to find your way out; to explain it to other people can prove to be a futile undertaking - unless they're ready to dive in head first.
That’s funny, this video brought to mind Infinite Jest and I wondered if that would be a more worthwhile endeavor (since they are both classified as ‘endeavors’in my head to me, similar level of hype, similar level of commitment). Of the two, which did you enjoy reading more, if you don’t mind me asking?
@@hinnakoto Both storywise and stylistically, David Foster Wallace is simply the better author; whereas I can understand some people consider House of Leaves' unusual format not much more than a fascinating gimmick, the same cannot be said of Infinite Jest.
I think part of the reason people love it is that in an age of ebooks and audiobooks, this is one story that absolutely has to be read in an old-fashioned physical book, and it's designed to make the most of that format. Similarly, you could try reading 'S' by JJ Abrams and Doug Dorst, another book that celebrates the physicality of books, only without the horror element this time.
3:25 is an interesting point because i felt kind of the opposite: in any kind of high concept book like this im always left wishing i was able to dig into the mysteries of the story from what felt like a human perspective the way the house is dug into by navidson, holloway, reston, etc as well as to an extent johnny and the editors. having a book throwing such a monumental amount of information to dig through, even if a lot of it is just superfluous footnotes, still felt extremely satisfying to sift through ime and is a large part of why i keep coming back. very few books have given me the feeling that i could dig into them endlessly and not get bored EVER, and house of leaves is one of the few. i think the dichotomy between whether you find that aspect of the book rewarding or frustrating is largely determined by whether youre the type to click through wikipedia articles for fun. if you ever go to look something up on wikipedia and end up spending 30+ minutes clicking through and reading pages only slightly related (if at all) to your original inquiry then that aspect of the book probably feels like a rare gift (which was my experience). if that sounds like an unbelievably boring way to spend your time, youd probably get the same feeling trying to get through the literal hundreds of footnotes present in house of leaves. edit: also, i hear what youre saying re: the sex scenes, but did it not at all feel like that was just the way johnny wrote? i dont feel as though he gives the women he writes about any more or less characterization than even someone like lude. what do we know ab him by the end of the story? hes johnnys friend, likes clubs/drinking+drugs/nightlife etc, good hairdresser, enjoys casual sex? gdansk man is an even more straightforward example. it doesnt feel like hes stripping the women in his vignettes of their depth *specifically*, just that, like you said: his writing style is superficially edgy and thus ALL of the characters he writes about dont have much depth past their "functions" in his life. like, do we ever hear anything about his boss that isnt some variation of "hes an ugly/uncaring/other negative trait asshole"? i feel like it could also just be avg time period sexism if nothing else? no footnote in the story dates any later than the turn of the millenium, not like people were as conscious towards gender equality back then as they are currently.
I'm surprised that you call the book difficult to get to or frustrating. When reading it, I found it fun and captivating pretty much the whole way through.
I often find it easier to enjoy postmodern works when they're short and sweet. I'm reading "Pale Fire" at the moment, and while it's easy to claim that that novel is too gimmicky for its own good, it's short enough that I can enjoy the gimmick for what it is. That's even more the case with short stories, like those of Borges. But when a novel is just 700 pages of the author trying really hard to be clever...yeah, that gets annoying. If I'm going to invest that much time in a book, I want a strong emotional connection to it; intellectual interest won't cut it. Great video, as always!
My close friends and I were OBSESSED with this book during the summer I turned 17 (over a decade ago now yikes). We'd compare notes and have long smoke sessions where we'd listen to music and make nachos and talk about HoL and Fight Club, our literary idol from the previous summer. It's strange looking back how certain books overwhelmed our entire group like a new drug. There's no way I'd make it through HoL now. If I didn't have that experience back then and it was recommended to me now I'd view HoL as too "style over substance" and problematic to bother with. Honestly the only part I still love is the Navidson Record.
Yes! Thank you! TH-cam randomly recommended your channel to me and I couldn't be happier. House of Leaves was on my shelf for years and I finally decided to read it several months ago. After weeks of dragging myself through it, I decided not to finish because it felt like I was putting in more effort than the author had. It's just so nice to hear someone share that experience. I wish I had people like you in my real life to discuss books with.
When you said "Both books are more interesting to read about than read themselves" you hit the nail on the head for a lot of mediums nowadays: books, television series, movies. With the rise of TikTokers that review and summarize works and TH-cam video essays/commentary channels, I think creators are able to condense works down to their most interesting components and that's all people really want. Rather than trying to discover that for themselves, they want someone to do it for them. I'll admit I just watched 5+ hours of a multi-part video essay on Dune because I already knew I wasn't going to read the series myself, but I was still captivated by the story.
I bought this book back in 2000, I was in my early 20s. It blew my mind and each time I dug into it, it got me so lost within its pages for hours without going anyplace..
I DNFed this three times over fifteen years. I think video is a better medium for what he tried to accomplish… but obviously he did something right with how many people enjoyed it. On the plus side his sister’s two music albums have great writing, and some of the songs reference this book, for those who cannot get enough of it.
I really enjoy the presentation of your videos. I don't read many "real books", but every so often I'll be interested in one and go to watch a review. The problem is that many "booktubers" just kind of film themselves in their room in one long vlog with minor edits. I appreciate that you take the time to change locations and keep the editing snappy. It keeps the video visually interesting without taking away from what you're talking about.
I absolutely loved this book. Maybe it's because I don't frustrate easily? I kept finding things and saying "Ooh, this will be fun to work out later." Thanks for inspiring me to reread it!
Really nice to see more book content lately! I found you through the skits but the book videos have drawn me in. Helping me on my quest to get back into reading!
I feel like a crucial reason why House of Leaves became the subculture touchstone it is today is that it, perhaps inadvertently, feels like a progenitor to so much of the current horror landscape. With the ideas of first-person perspective to the point of intentional myopia and lack of understanding of what's Really going on, multiple contexts and layers required to fully understand the plot, and the intertwining of horror and nostalgia, I feel like you can draw a thematic line to FNAF, SCP wiki, and the Backrooms, just to name a few, even if not all of them were actually directly inspired by the book. House of Leaves presages a Brechtian, almost distancing effect approach to horror where intentionally obscuring and alienating the viewer's understanding of the situation engenders a higher level of engagement and personal attachment with interpretations and analysis. The thing is though, that a crucial part of all of those newer takes on this concept is also that they intentionally trim the narrative WAY the hell back to almost skeletal levels in order to better emphasize the distancing effect, and House of Leaves shows why that is a good idea. It is telling that the best parts of House of Leaves are the parts with the least actual detail, and the ideas and moments with the most page space devoted to them tend to be the worst (see the sex scenes). When House of Leaves actually gives you enough detail to not be distanced, it drags the entire narrative down, and it bloats the story to a poisonous effect. The SCP wiki version of House of Leaves would probably be 1/25th the length and be just as scary.
I was actually genuinely thinking about picking this book up a few days ago. Glad I came across your video. I don't think I'll be reading this anymore, especially since I'm extremely SR and didn't think the book would have that many sex scenes in it, I don't think I'd be able to get through those parts you mentioned. So thanks for the headsup!
As one of those awful, horrible people that has probably destroyed any shred of respect my friends had for my taste in literature by recommending this book online discussions about House of Leaves -- and especially about Johnny - have fascinated me for a number of years now. I've read it cover to cover twice. And both times, as interesting as the House itself is, it's Johnny that's my emotional tie to the story. I *like* Johnny as a character. Yeah, he's a dirtbag of a human being, but in the early chapters, reading him reminded me of sitting and shooting the shit with my university friends (without the sexism). Half of what he says is completely made up and the other half is mostly made up but you don't want to stop him because who knows what he's going to come up with next. And that, combined with the reminder that the Navidson Record is fictional, makes House of Leaves read to me as a cautionary tale of a young, troubled man getting caught in his own head and destroying his life. So I always find it really interesting that people write off Johnny as this annoying interjection to the 'real' story of the House, when, to me, he's the core of the narrative.
I read it over a decade ago and my memory about the details is very vague, but isn't he like the only character? All the other stories were made up by him, all the other characters figments of his imagination or facets of his personality, or whatever.
I already read this bad boy and have my opinions thank you very much but I wanted to leave this comment to let you know you are very good at making videos and I am glad you create content, thank you
So many people told me that I had to go into this book blind because it was so amazing and that was probably the absolute worst mindset to go into that book with.
I like the honesty. I tried a few times and couldn't get into it. I first tried when I read the back and it sounded interesting, and then a few other times when it was recommended..
I'd love a video where you talk about Lonesome Dove; I'm reading it myself right now (about one third trough) and I really love it! Also, I picked up Butcher's Crossing because of you, like 20 pages in rn :)
I liked the book bc I saw it as a love story, there’s no room in the house for their love, even when it gets bigger and bigger. Then what saves him from the house truly, is love.
Godd this is so refreshing, Im really glad to finally hear someones take about this book online that I can actually relate to. I personally have not been able to relate to anyone's profound love for it. For such a long read I obviously came away with something, I mean some parts of it stuck with me, but I just couldn't get past the (in my opinion) obnoxious characters, awkwardly sexist moments and the empty-feeling intellectual nonsense. At the end of it all, I kinda just felt like... Yeah, that was a book. I was more proud of myself for finishing something so long than I was happy I read the story. A lot of it honestly felt inaccessible too, like some parts I just didn't understand, namely the random bits and bobbles of information that I guess were supposed to have some connection to the story that I didn't see. Maybe I'm just not the target audience for something written this way. Also, this is going to sound so weird but I swear to god you look exactly like me but gender-swapped. We literally have the same nose, hairline and everything, its creeping me out. Your eyebrows are better than mine, though.
This book got me back into reading in high school while my lit classes seemed to be actively discouraging a love of reading with the driest canon classics possible. High schools would be wise to promote books like this that young people connect with to keep that spark alive. Even if the books may be overly edgy and pretentious (which lets be honest, describes a lot of teens.)
I only read the documentary portion. I'm glad the paragraphs were formatted differently so I knew what to overlook. I gave up on the other parts quickly.
I might be the minority of people who read this book in its entirety and enjoyed it and didn't really care a ton about the deeper messages that it supposedly has. The surface level message about the futility of art criticism was interesting, but other than that it was a bunch of stories that I found interesting, and it was fun to try to figure out what exactly was going on.
Maybe if teachers want kids to be interested in reading they also should do ten funny skits for every time they tell them to read a book
As someone who sat through English classes where professors tried being funny during Macbeth… yes, but remember children hate learning and will self sabotage to look cool among peers
@@royceshatzel lol based
although some kids try to look cool and smart, giving a double blast of coolness.
Some of them attempt this. But key word is "funny"
I wish that teachers would find out what really interests their kids and get them reading about those things at a young age. That way they will already be in that place of being excited to read.
@@Angel_HippieCityHealing yup
I love the sketches but the book videos are what I originally subscribed for so I'm always happy to see both
The Thing Man was originally Carrying is Booktube.
It's the opposite for me. Subscribed for the jokes, but love the literature taking in this channel.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 nice pun
Its sad that sketches have way more views than the book videos.
@@jus_sanguinis Both have their audience, and some of us like both. It's like a restaurant menu:
If you offer your signature dish and several other, there's a good chance that you end up selling more than with just your perfectly balanced dish. Thing is that the customers that like your place will not be restricted to go only they want your signature dish, and can invite others that don't even like such recipe to go there, and still have an enjoyable experience.
I think you're right in the sense that a lot of people praise the book because there is this sense of "I'm so smart because I *got* it, I enjoyed it", being part of this in-group, but on the other hand, I think for me personally, I loved this story about people who create so *so* many issues for themselves and others, and they convince themselves it's because of this House, outside forces, when in reality it's because of their own flaws, and they refuse to acknowledge it. And that goes for us, the reader, too, because we *want* the House to be something more, like the characters inside.
I hate pretentious things and this book and its readers seem like those type of people.
@@ProjektTaku "pretentious" is such an annoying buzz word criticism. is everything that sincerely strives for excellence pretentious? is every person that truly enjoys intellectually analyzing and praising a thing pretentious? it's an overused word often representative of empty criticism. people can love things and rave about how they think it's a deep and intelligent work of art without trying to be anything they aren't. there usually are many reasons why critically acclaimed things are popular! and many people who use this word just use it to describe people who conform to a specific artistic consensus.
@@treeigh not really.
Pretentious is just getting cocky cause you read or watched something and think your better cause you did. Its a very simple but effective criticism.
Pretentious people are people who talk about "cinema" and "cinematic palette" and think their so smart cause they read something that's "unique" and "different" and "underrated", even if they didn't get it.
@@ProjektTaku Calling something or someone pretentious doesn't really add anything to the conversation though. It's like calling something "cringe". If you disagree with someone's interpretation of a work or you disagree with the message of a work, just say that.
It's usually used by insecure people who are afraid of intellectual pursuits and rather stay in their limited bubble of mediocrity.
The book kind of makes itself the monster. The search for a path through the empty passages is exactly the structure of the house and the book itself. I found the most horrifying sections in the middle, when I was totally sandwiched between narratives and feeling very unsafe.
this is the most intelligent reasoning behind the book and ultimately why it didn't stick for ThingCarryingMan
Interesting. I didn't read the book, but if what you are saying is true, then it is a weak story? Like, in a generic sense it loses the reader. How far can an author manipulate structure before losing credible craftsmanship?
@malazkarar1171 Man please read it. We should praise art that pushes the boundaries of the medium regardless of the quality of the final piece
@@malazkarar1171 Imagine if people had your attitude about books like Blood Meridian or Moby Dick. Quit speculating and pick up the book for yourself.
@@MrWhygodwhy I actually managed to read it ever since my first comment. It reads like an experiential art exhibit; ambience is its strongest point. The entire novel is a metaphor for a maze and like all mazes it's got many dead ends and useless paths and like with being in a maze it gets frustrating and at some point you just want out. For the haters of HOL, that's exactly what happens; they stop reading. As for the rest of us we're still stuck there. 3 stars out of 5.
I love how accurate it is to tell someone about this book 💀
It isn't like a normal telling someone about a book. Nope.
All i do is show them some pages, usually the inverted paragraphs and pages with like 1 word.
Then if they're interested I lend them the book
i felt so called out there
I’ve described it as a spooky onion. It’s got layers and there’s plenty of punch to it, but you have to be the right kind of person to bite straight into an onion.
I like this analogy so much
Perfect comparison!
real
Yes 100%
Such a genios simile!
I read the book twice and thought it was pretty good. I really enjoyed hearing you talking about the flawed parts. A lot of reviews/‘deep dives’ make the book out to be some irrefutable, sacred text, which is obviously not true.
from what I've heard this book is perfection with absolutely zero flaws and if you dislike it you have -100 iq.
@@ProjektTaku This is true ;)
@@bevanmcnicholl2525 eh...
Can’t I say that about literally anything?
I personally so but just because I love it that much despite its flaws which i personally just dont care about... Sure its kinda boring at times but still fun and great.
I think people are just intrigued whether the house was really occupied by leaves or a family with Leaves as their family name. Then they get something else. Honestly, I don't know. I have a copy but haven't read it yet.
Actually, I think it's more of a meta statement. We, the readers, are the leaves.
@@gabrieljaffe7426 The House of Leaves at that.
it's because the house makes you want to leave
@@gabrieljaffe7426 the real leaves were the friends we made along the way
@@SpoopySquid hahahaNO!
Love how you can go from Skit videos to videos about Books and cool shit like this
bro said Books
awesome pfp you got there :)
The appendices with Johnny's mother's letters are a very underrated part of House of Leaves. It's been a long time, but I remember those largely being the most cohesive and engaging moments
I only found out afterwards that there was a second code, so I had to go back into the book to decipher them. Made me feel like I personally was responsible for not decyphering her call for help until it was too late.
To think that one of the better part of the books was hidden until after I finished it. It adds a tragic layer to Johnny's story, who probably never decoded it.
I agree that was one of my favorite parts of the book, it felt very investigative
@@TeamKatastrophe THERE'S A SECOND CODE???
@@TeamKatastrophei decoded it and wrote it down and my friend found it and was damn near about to call the police.
@@hiroprotagonist921lol if it's the one I remember about what the old ladies night nurses were doing to her that would be one scary note to find irl
I think what I like about this book is that it's a narrative about obsession and the way it's written forces you (or at least forced me) to read it obsessively. Navidson is obsessed with filming this house, Zampano is obsessed with writing this story, Truant is obsessed with putting Zampano's story in order, and I was obsessed with figuring out how it all fit together. I spent quite literally all of my free time reading this thing until I was finished. That obsession took a toll on my mental health, as it did for Truant, as it likely did for Zampano, and as it did for Navidson. Your points are fair but I still like this book quite a bit, even though it kind of feels impossible to recommend because of the way it's at its most effective when it's making you miserable
I also got into this completely independently of the internet hype so I didn't really have expectations that it would be a certain way, which might play into my experience
I totally agree on this and suspect it's intentional, considering Danielewski takes the same kind of approach of forcing/emulating a certain behavior in some of his other books (for example, the young girl in vol. 1 of the familiar).
what i like is how you've demonstrated the correct use of the contraction 'it's', along with 'its' oft-mistaken possessive form, all in one sentence. obsessive=correct?!
@@briancarroll3541 That's mainly from reading A Series of Unfortunate Events at a formative age. Correct usage of it's/its is an important plot point in book #3
@@venburylabs that is not a world i come from so thanks for the backstory.
One of my favorite books. Its horror reputation sets up expectations that the book doesn't meet for me at all. But man did it stick with me.
Honestly I don't think I've ever experienced true horror from media. I mostly just consume horror media for creepy atmosphere and cool visual effects, which is fine.
@@h4724-q6j i think ONE of the only true terror moments i've ever experienced from media has been from a lower budget film than the ones people typically talk about. and by terror i mean, excluding real-life type of horror that things like my favorites (hill house, bly manor) do. the movie As Above So Below. i was already a stickler and a horror snob by the time i saw that and watched it both for premise and title, wasn't expecting much based on the found-footage-seeming aspect, but it scared the living shit out of me. it made me feel as unsafe and shocked as the characters did, while also providing me with fulfillment in similar areas of education that the characters loved lol. i'm not easily scared and almost wish i was, but that movie genuinely made me feel terror lol. i think in a similar way that house of leaves can make the reader feel. Lost. going in circles but still going too far in that it doesn't feel to have a way back around. etc. i think it's a fun scary watch
i went into it without horror expectations and more just wanting to know what the fuck this zampano guy is writing about, how does this house work? I think in doing that I got a better experience of the book, I definitely don't understand everything that is meant to have been conveyed but I enjoyed the use of metanarratives. It was entertaining that zampano could just make shit up like quotes from celebrities in some strange world which is built on made up sources but interacts with itself to be something more than it is, that is if truant didn't imagine everything of zampanos
@@ihatemickiegee Evangelion kinda did that for me lol
My experience to a T
I have ADHD and OCD, and this book clicked with me in a huge way. The way you can't actually get to the actual centre of the story because you end up veering off into one layer and another and another until you're living a life within a frame that you overanalyse and can't remember who you are and begin to question if the intruding thoughts are becoming you. I feel like Truant represented mental health pulling you away from the story, the frustration you feel at not geting the info you want while hearing an asshole waffle on just sat so well with me and what my life and experience in life has been. The use of empty space and angles with House of Leaves just made it feel more true to how my moment to moment experience can be. Sometimes I end up lying down on the floor with my face down because my balance has gone to shit and the world is spinning after I walked into something while lost in thought. Being medicated has improved my life massively, and maybe if I reread the book these days it might not feel that way, but I think it does a good job of showing how mental health can turn your life into bullshit instead of the story you want told.
man, i also have adhd combined and ocd, there were so many moments where i lost my true self reading this bookz i finished today, and the way thta the author show us how our breakdown mentaly can drag us in the most obscure thing, there's no escape if you don't have the proper help. I'm glad that a neurodivergent bro like me is better now, good luck buddy, enjoy your art journey reading or viewing more amazing things like this one!
@@ExtremeGutter Good luck with life to you too buddy, I hope life treats you well and that things go as well as possible for you
Man, I didn't read your full comment and just words asshole waffle jumped out at me and I thought that would be the worst type of dessert out there 😭
You ought to tell your doc about balance issues and running into things, also falls if any. Psychiatric meds can cause that.
I read this book quite a few years ago, and it has really stuck with me. I’m not usually someone with irrational emotional ties to books to the point I reject any criticism, but this book helped me through some very tough times emotionally at a point where I had enough free time to read it in a week. I’ve wanted to reread it for years, but the thought that it may not live up to my own expectations have kept me from ever committing to reading more than the first three chapters.
I did read it again years later, and it definitely held up. One of those 'every time you find something new' stories, since there's enough characters that you can always find someone else to relate to.
@@danielgehring7437 I dunno, I never really liked the many characters in it, as I felt there wasn't enough time to develop them all equally. The book should've been longer to develop them more. But I did like how distinct and unique they all were.
@@ProjektTaku Well, hence my recommendation to read it again. I don't think it being any longer would have helped... it's already a massive undertaking... but giving it a round 2 can definitely help flesh out each character, especially with the appendices.
@@danielgehring7437 lol guess so.
To me it seemed pretty short, although that might just be from reading a over 20 year old manga with over 1000 chapters/100 volumes which is still ongoing.
A round 2 could probably help.
I think my enjoyment of the book was largely due to the experimental "gimmicky" stuff. It felt like reading a jigsaw puzzle, and I think it made me more interested to keep going than if the same story had been written more traditionally. Though I can totally see why it could be a deterrent instead for people.
I really enjoy how you can discribe a book or topic in a clear and enetraining way. So glad I found your channel.
I know there's a few commenters who've said similar things, but I actually didn't realize there was so much online hype around this book. It is my favorite novel to this day, but like, I've always felt it wasn't all that deep. I read it for the first time in high school (over a decade ago), and I read it obsessively, the way I've seen a couple others describe. My mental health was already so bad that it gave me an outlet and some characters to relate to. I hated Johnny from the get go, but really resonated with the relationship he had with his mom. I liked the tedious academic footnotes, the appendices, the touch-and-go nature of each section and story (maybe this is a favorite among fellow ADHDers? That would make sense Iol). I never thought I was supposed to be getting a full picture of these characters, more an abstract painting of how their trauma and flaws were feeding into the supernatural elements and making their lives fall apart. The line "Maturity, one realizes, is the acceptance of not knowing" is something that's stuck with me my entire life. That all being said, I was there for the style 100%, and what it hit in my heart personally. It's not genius or perfect and it makes me worried that the people talking about it online are missing a lot of the good stuff in it by thinking of it that way. I'm not gonna go check, though.
And it definitely informed the kind of media I enjoy as an adult. I love shit that's pretentious and frustrating and spooky, and at a certain point I had to embrace that.
I think older fans of this book know it's just fine, and are fine with that. Very similar to being a Buffy fan lol.
there's not a lot of online hype about it, or, at least, not significantly more hype than any other pretty popular book, enough to warrant the title of this video being what it is anyway.
@@Zionswasdhere are several videos dedicated to talking about this book. Someone literally made a 3 part series analyzing the book with each part being like an hour long. Every single comment I've read on all those videos talks about how interesting the book is. There is a shit ton of hype for this piece of fiction, and its especially impressive for a book to get this much recognition. I've personally read it myself, and it really didn't stick to me like most people said it would. It was an interesting experience, most definitely, but not anything too crazy or deep. But hey that's just my personal opinion on this😅
I couldn't put this book down when I read it a few months ago. I found it really engaging, it really pulled me through. I really got a lot out of it, but I also entirely understand that it's not really for everyone.
Have you ever read Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov? I found it to be structured in a similar way to House of Leaves. At the heart of the book is the poem 'Pale Fire' and then there is a commentary on the poem by this other guy who has some vague connections to the author. Except, unlike House of Leaves, it does feel rewarding to follow the commentary and peel back the story and narrative that's embedded in the commentary which has you jumping back and forth to different sections to pick up different bits and pieces.
i haven't yet, but i want to
Only tangentially related but one of my favorite games is The Beginners Guide. It really hit me in a way that nothing really had before.
Then I read about Pale Fire and I was "oh shit, this was a huge inspiration wasn't it". And both are great
Pale Fire is great because you have to take the commentator’s word for everything. At times I was questioning whether he forged the poem altogether. Read up on Shakespeare’s Timon of Athens before starting Pale Fire, too…makes the book all the more hilarious
That one's been on my list, but I know that when I read it I'll just start crying about Blade Runner 2049 again (the poem and book get referenced in it)
I found the characters and their musings to be insufferable with no form of pallete cleansing in either different perspective or better prose.
Comparing the "backrooms" to the House was way more accurate than I expected.
As weird as it sounds this was the first book I read when I got back into reading in my 20s, I totally didn't "get" a lot of it but I enjoyed the hell out of it. It's definitely not for everybody but at the same time I'm saddened when people just dismiss it as pretentious and/or being quirky for quirkiness' sake. I think the whacky design choices were partially "the point," but I also think the author put effort into making each of them work; they weren't just lazily slapped together to cover the books deficiencies, even though it does have definiencies.
I think this book is raw art, the rawest piece of media I've ever consumed. I think what people can take away from the book is often as a result of how people read the book. The most common way to read it is probably 1) reading the navidson records 2) reading Johnny's notes, 3) reading the whalestoe letters (if you even do that). But I gave myself the daunting challenge of reading it as if the annotations were instructions from the author.
Everytime an anotation came up, pause, read the relevant section, if there's an annotation there, read that and then come back recursively all the way to the starting annotation.
That. Broke me. I know people crap on non-linear structures a lot but this was the best usage of a non-linear structure. When you read chapter 8 of the navidson record, chapter 3 or 4 starts to have quite a bit of foreshadowing, and Zampano's references start to make much more sense. When you read the whalestoe letters when dictated by the annotation, you see the broken boy Johnny was, and how he still carries that grief like a shadow or a minotaur lurking in the corner.
I think your criticisms were fair, but this book wasn't meant to be read. It was meant to be felt. After reading the novel I found online that it was the author's fathers death that spurred him to write this, and you can definitely see the complicated feelings he had towards that reflected in the book.
I also felt kinship with some elements of the madness. I struggled with mental illness as a teenager, and the hyperfixation of the stuff in the walls of text of obscure architects and writers spoke to me. I don't think it's because it was 'gimmicky', i think Mark's current work is quite gimmicky, but the madness in that book was magic and it spoke to me like no other book could.
Yes, agreed. "It isn't meant to be read, it's meant to be felt"
This book is something I experienced with my feelings, my intuition and the nature of my own mind. It isn't something I was reading to observe and think about characters so much as to be inside of the process or the experiential.
A friend of mine put it like this: "A horror story about what it means to lose access to your defenses against unbounded interiority" - it's a mental journey, not a character driven plot.
I understand if this isn't for everyone. And yes people can be pretentious about it bc it is high concept.
It also helps to listen to Poe's album in conjunction. Another felt experience where Poe (Danielewski's sister, tho I knew of her first, so I actually think of it as he is Poe's brother lol) and him play off of each other artistically and in the felt experience of their father's death.
I loved it and never felt as if Johnny was an intruder. In fact it felt more like I was reading Johnny and then breaking to read what he was reading and breaking to read what Zampano had "watched" and was making/creating.
The pain in the story, at every level, was very relatable
@@IllyriaSings yeah it feels very much as if the navidson record is a more thematic and atmospheric story while the parts with Johny are more fleshed out and character focused. It's always odd seeing how many people discredit johny's parts as I often found them just as if not more interesting at times and reading the whalestoe letters when directed give him so much more context. The greatest strength of the book is just how it is able to make you feel what the characters feel through page layout and story structure much more so than any individual element
honestly i found johnny's sections to be more terrifying than the navidson record. that story about him imagining killing that girl and her boyfriend especially is still the most nightmarish moment I've ever had reading a horror book of any kind@@plugshirt1762
I read the book in a very similar way , although I didn't read the chapters out of order. If an annotation mentioned seeing a chapter, I just made a note of it and rechecked it once I got to that chapter.
On a whim, I ordered the book online, and it arrived on Friday. Just this last Friday, to be exact. For nearly two days straight, with some breaks between chapters, I read that book from 5 PM on that Friday to 5 PM yesterday. I do *not* recommend that schedule. It was hard to sleep last night.
Late comment but I've been reading it the same way. Idk it just felt natural, I had faith in the book guiding me from the get go I guess. And WOW it payed of. At some point one of the annotations led me to chapter XIII and the holloway tapes and 1. Incredibly well written, was on the edge of my seat 2. Know what's to come entirely recontextualizes EVERYTHING happening beforehand in such an interesting (and sad) way.
I have only gotten 80 pages into this book, and I think I know why. I am the kind of person who hates watching media when his friends are talking in the background. I often find social media consumption to be more distracting than engaging, including watching films in theaters and participating in livestream chatting. This is normally not an issue for books. Normally. Johnny Truant is the book form of your friend who won't shut up about some inane tangent while you are watching something. I started making better progress with the book by just ignoring the footnotes, however I realized that this means I would be missing out on some important pieces. This conflict between making the book legible (for me) versus making the book meaningful has completely stalled me out and I doubt I will ever finish it.
I’ve talked to my partner a lot about how we enjoy books and I think of house of leaves a lot when we have these discussions. I read it in high school and really enjoyed it and in a way was proud of myself. At the time it felt like one of the most challenging and mature things I had ever read. A few years later I probably thought that pride was cringy and now that I’m even older and I’ve reread the book I think I deserved to feel pride at the time for “getting it”. Back to conversations I’ve had with my partner. We fundamentally value books differently and through our conversation we’ve identified that basically I value concepts more than characters and her vice versa. I think house of leaves might have a cult following because like for myself it exposed people to a more conceptual fiction. You would never criticize a character driven romance novel for only shallowly exploring the philosophical truth of love and in the same way I think criticizing house of leaves for a lack of character depth comes off the same way. The book focuses on concepts and I believe the downplaying of character is a strength. That said I don’t think the book is perfect and I’m not trying to champion it’s defence but I think this idea that some readers may have a value bias that colours how they interpret works. I think a lot of genres carry a character value bias and that tends to be the default criticism. I think an exception to this is the sci-fi genre tends to bias on the conceptual end of things. Maybe this sounds like bs but I just think it’s interesting and opens my mind to just how subjective a “good book” is
All that said I think you hit the nail on the head the real problem is the sexism. “That’s the point” can only get you so far
@@samwhite4961 Truant was fucked up in a lot more ways than just his sexism. The guy was a full blown basket case, his treatment and attitudes towards women was just a part of that. I don't know how it's possible to read something like Blood Meridian and be okay with the violence because "that's the point" and then squirm when a character is sexist.
Even you're normal book review videos aren't normal by this awkwardly funny editing, music, you constantly changing position etc.... really nice Man!
Also for a book recommendation, I HIGHLY recommend The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows. VERY slept on book that really makes you look inward.
Oooh.
This is my brother's favorite book, and has been for over a decade. He rereads it at least once a year, and it has helped him through some rough times. A couple of years ago, he bought everyone in our immediate family a copy for Christmas (including siblings' spouses). Of the five of us who were given a copy, I am to date the only one who's read it all the way through. I used a month of summer break and sat for a couple hours every day with it. I remember it being dense and difficult to follow until they got to the actual house narrative. The labyrinth was the most linear part of the story for me, oddly enough. I did enjoy the novelty of having to literally rotate the book to read things, and having to choose when to read the footnotes and appendices. I don't entirely understand the hype, but for all that it was dense reading, I did like it. I'm not likely to reread it, but I enjoyed it while I did, and I enjoy listening to my brother talk about it and discussing what I remember with him.
I think a large part of the fan base is a lot of people liking it SO much because a lot of people like it SO much, and because it's different. Certain books become living memes. They hit critical mass and the accepted opinion is perpetuated.
In theory, I LOVE this book. In practice, I really only remember a few parts, mostly with the house plotline.
Funny enough the Johnny Truant story line affected me as much as the house plotline
This is also how I feel about this book. I like your characterization of it as a living meme.
I'll tell you why I'm obsessed with House of Leaves: It's a good book.
Also, my house keeps rearranging itself, but more importantly, the book is good.
Is it weird for a house to rearrange itself?
I thought it made sense giving how much I paid for it. Should I be worried?
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 nah, probably just the wind.
I've only read this book once all the way through, though I've read sections of it many times over. It is one of my favorite books but I think all of your criticisms are valid. You're right, in my opinion, that it is more of am art piece than a traditional novel or narrative but that IS what I love about it. The more I go back to it the more things I notice. The more superfluous bits start to stand out with meaning and Johnny's parts of the story becomes less and less a chore to get through. The letters in the back are what really bring me into the Johnny narrative. There are some fascinating ways to interpret them and his whole relationship with his mom.
I 100% agree. I feel like Johnny is the emotional core of the story. The whalestoe letters and the quotes in the back open up a whole new emotional and thematic richness. I think I saw a comment back when I was reading it that you had to read the letters in the back to truly understand, and I scoffed because it sounded so pretentious, but then I got there and it really did do it for me.
Hard disagree on female characters being one dimensional. While she doesn't often have her feelings narrated to the audience, seeing how Karen struggles to deal with the impossibility of the House and with Navidson's growing obsession, as well as hearing through interviews how people in Karen's life feel about her made her one of my favorite characters in the book.
As for Thumper, it makes sense for her to be partially flat given that Johnny had so little actual interaction with her, with her basically just being Johnny's freudian idealized form of both mother and lover. She's always kept at a distance in terms of what we know about her because Johnny himself is practically only seeing her through a glass wall. He can see and talk to her, but he'll never be part of her life.
Hell that's not even mentioning Pelafina, who is by far one of the most interesting characters in the book
Yeah I also thought the female characters were pretty well written, considering all main characters were men
the fact that he didn’t even bring up Pelafina was kinda wild
super agree with this
Isn’t the whole point you made about Thumper exactly what the TH-camr was talking about when he said books get away with doing things poorly because that’s the “point”?
Yeah, there’s a reason she’s rendered flat but even you admit she is rendered flat. I really don’t understand how you can use that example to disagree about the female characters being one dimensional.
I tend to agree, though what I really respect 'House of Leaves' for is its effort (and, in my opinion, successful effort) to render its medium essential to its experience. It's one of few books that demands to be read as a physical book while remaining altogether immune to adaptation (whether into film, television, or audiobook), and I believe that is quite an achievement.
I think it's interesting you point out the work that goes into engaging with this book. House of Leaves is one of my favorite reading experiences in recent years, but very notably it is WORK to read. Although I may have in general gotten more imapcted by the horror in the book than you, I think much of my enjoyment of the book was that reading it reminded me of doing academic research in college. The inevitable and frustrating process of researching for a thesis and getting tied up in connected texts and annotations and bibliographies for hours, and all just to get a source for a single piece of evidence that makes an appearance in one paragraph of the entire work. I can't say that process is fun, neither in reading nor in academia, but it's a process I get a weird enjoyment out of. This book for me was like that work but all connected to an interesting and riveting horror narrative. I think that's why I liked it, but at the same time, it absolutely makes sense that another reader would find that exact fact about the book's style arduous and unrewarding. Really great video, I'm always excited whenever you upload book analysis
I just finished Five Decembers ten minutes ago on your recommendation and it was fucking amazing. Thank you for that experience. Only got 120 pages into House of Leaves, one day I'll finish it.
Edit: Please recommend me mindfucky sci-fi or just psychological mystery/supsense with supernatural twists people :D
Nice! Glad you enjoyed it
Same feelings on Five Decembers, great book!
@@carlochiorino Right?! And now onto A game of thrones, lol.
I've been reading house of leaves for three years soon, halfway there!
@@EleonoraStill seems about right! think i'm gonna do a yearly 2-3h read haha :D
it may be that your skits are so short and reliably funny, but i love to click on your videos. when it's something even more engaging, I pause and i thank you from the bottom of my heart. I don't read enough but I began buying books again but only from the specific authors (and manga creators), because I just don't like reading. But these kinds of videos light a kind of fire under my ass no other videos on youtube can ever achieve.
lol based
I first read this book in high school in 2006 and loved it. Since then, I have become an avid reader of all genres, especially horror. I reread this book about a month ago and found it to be an unbearable experience.
Never heard of this one before. It sounds like it’s a Homestuck kind of situation where the story itself is just so logistically arduous to consume that people who get through it feel like it was more engaging than it actually was due to it being such a demanding read
was expecting green eggs and ham but this will do
that's more of a 4.5 hour video essay
Ah man, there's an amazing twist at the end of that book! I won't spoil it - people got to put in the time and read it - it's not like a normal book.
The only book I've read more than once (I don't read a lot of books at all mind you) was Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell.
I just really like how mundane and academic it makes early 18th century magic, and then uses that academic footnotes in the book throughout for exposition.
House of Leaves was gifted to me by my literature professor he said I had a creative mind and would appreciate the intriguing way this story was told and he was right I absolutely loved the feeling of cosmic horror and uncertainty reading it and knowing this book can't work as a audio format nor a movie it has to be read.
I find it oddly ironic that Man Carrying things seemed to find gimmicks inside the story but started off with an ad for a kickstarter book about silver shiny covers and maps instead of what the story is and why I should read it (it won awards. Okay) . I personally get disinterested when a book cover has that much shine and "extra things" gimmicks to it. BUT That's just me, I don't want to kick a man carrying things not to get his ad revenue. Just found a funny disconnect how I saw this video.
I think the difference is he was advertising for what it was. The Kickstarter is for the shiny covers and fun stuff. You can already get the book without all that and a less superficial look probably needs more time anyway
there’s a difference bw how a book is packaged and its actual contents.
how he describes it, one is a shiny box with a nice treat inside. the other is a box that says all other boxes are boring but is empty inside.
@@gingerAV yup.
I like shiny and flashy books, but I guess that's just who I am.
@TagardMC. Right, the cosmic horror was lovely and the mental journey and cosmic horror inside of the minds of the people we are experiencing. Really enjoyed this book
While I agree with most of this video, I still intensely loved the whole experience of going through HoL. The late nights skimming through footnotes and highlighting seemingly important stuff felt like being back at university, doing obscure research. I would often skip the more frustrating sections, which honestly did feel intentional, like rummaging through a bunch of unorganized sources in search for proof. Among all of this, the „aha!” moments felt super rewarding to me. And you’re right, reading about it online felt like a huge bonus. I spent a good few weeks looking through forums, and even got into the HoL-inspired album written by Danielewski’s sister. All in all, despite its numerous flaws, it’s one of my favorite books. And I wouldn’t recommend it to most people. 😅
Highly recommend Erasure by Percival Everett. Not an experimental novel per se but there’s a great use of the “novel within a novel” device that sort of critiques the “poor writing is the point” trope.
I bought this book a few years ago while I was at Barnes & Noble‘s. This book caught my eye and I bought it without really knowing anything about it. It’s been sitting on my shelf ever since I bought it for some reason I just never started reading it. It’s so funny that I am now being shown this TH-cam video about it seems like I’ll have to pick it up and read it now.
I heard about this book for the first time a few days ago from Super Eyepatch Wolf on his video on liminal spaces. Cool to see you bring it up
Same
Yeah! During SEW video I just though "That's gonna be my brother's Christmas present! Perfect for him!"...and now I am doubtful. 😅 I guess, I am gonna read it my self first.
That was my second time. The firstwas that guy that comments on video games and books. Anyway, since then I've been seeking the book and found this review very helpful
Im soo glad that MYHOUSE is introducing people to this book
There’s also the infinite loop of thinking about Alan Wake, thinking about Haunted by Poe from the games soundtrack, then remembering the singer of Poe is the sister of the author of House of Leaves and that that album and this book are related and then you forget about them, but Alan Wale 2 is announced and you remember about House of Leaves again.
I enjoyed looking like a crazy person turning this book this way and that while reading it at a café. I did get through it in the end, but only because I was invested in the spooky house story.
This is not a gothic or horror novel. It’s not a book about a strange house. This is a book about a young, very smart guy that suffers from being almost killed by his schizophrenic mother as a small child, being mistreated by his foster father, losing his mother, losing his best friend and slipping into a serious psychosis. It‘s a novel about child abuse an early childhood trauma. And about the thinking processes of a schizophrenic person. It‘s so fascinating. One of the most inspiring reading experiences.
HOL is one of my 2 favorite books of all-time. I think you hit the nail on the head, 'you get out, what you put into it' which is why it has such a strong affect on some people. The other book i had a similar feeling with was 100 years of solitude.
pls do more of these longer videos with skits interwoven its great
It's amazing how the only way I know about what internet is obsessed with is through your channel because I have litteraly never heard of it.
same
I was recommended this book on an internet chatroom (no way this could ever date itself) once. Completely forgot about it until now. Guess I'm in a similar boat then.
I learned about it through MyHouse.wad (Doom II).
To me, it's about about intertexts sometimes leading to non existant texts and we are a world of hypertexts sometimes leading to fake news. I developed a psychosis being obsessed by connecting everything. So, yeah, I get it in an intimate way.
I asked for this book as a birthday gift about a decade ago after going on various forums looking for dread-inducing, creepy atmospheric horror novel recommendations. I must have tried getting through it about 5 times by now and the furthest I have ever got was about half-way. It actually annoyed me so much that I couldn't get through the back and forth commitment that this novel requires of the reader that it stopped me from reading anything entirely for several years. It's been on my bedside table constantly as a reminder that I still need to revisit and finish it. I don't know if it is a pretentiousness, that you mentioned, how some of the characters come off as or, as you stated, the gimmicky nature of the book or something entirely different. I want to finish it, but I get tired thinking about finishing it before I even open up the book again. I have mentioned this book to so many people and flicked through the pages to show them how weird it gets with the experimental use of words (or lack of any) on certain pages, but have never recommended it despite it having one or two pretty effective horror moments, that have already been explored many times since in other mediums such as film.
I know that liminal space horror has had a recent surge in popularity with "The Back Rooms" found footage memes that have come back into fashion recently and it's been boosted by a lot of creative collectives and individuals such as Kane Pixels (who you have featured in this video) and upcoming projects such as Skinamarink by Bightsized Nightmares. I find that stuff pretty cool and unsettling, but I worry now that when I do eventually finish this book that I will have already seen what it has to offer elsewhere.
I hope it is worth it.
lol yeah, but its really just a gimmick secton to add flavor.
A lot of the gimmicky sections are just to create a certain mood or make the reader disoriented. You can skip over some sections once you see what is meaningless text for effect.
I really don‘t don't think it is worth it. P.T. Captured what this book was going for with a single hallway, without all the terible dialogue and tedium. Tedium I would be all for if it was in the hands of a great writer
Read Anne Rice‘s Lives of the Mayfair Witches series if you want great horror in novel form.
@@HunkyTalkenMonkey01 thanks for the recommendation, I'll check that series out
It was a big chore to get through some of this book, but I'm glad I did, the house sections are a real treasure. I came away with huge respect for the artistry involved in creating the physical book itself.
If you're struggling, the trick is to SKIM THE SHIT OUT OF FOOTNOTES, especially Zampano's never ending lists.
WTH like 60% of the story and themes is in the notes, if you burnt yourself out by only reading the ones you obviously weren't supposed to read that's entirely on you.
It really is a special book. I think any art that plays with format and challenges preconceived notions should be absolutely cherished regardless of overall quality. Twin Peaks, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Metal Gear Solid 2, James Joyce's Ulysses, Everythint At the end of Time, Yume Nikki, hell even TH-cam's Alan Tutorial or Lasagne Cat should all be appreciated for deconstructing their respective mediums.
I haven't ever read House Of Leaves but I heard about it in a Jacob Geller video once. Maybe the thing driving this phenomena is that the internet favors people extolling their extreme actions? It's less extreme to consider a book not worth your time than to make it through a difficult and weird book that's allegedly "only good if you're miserable from reading it" or something. I'd love to hear Man's thoughts on Infinite Jest because its got a similar thing going on.
bruh the book doesn't make you miserable from reading it. Why would you assume what someone says about a book is objectively right when you haven't even read the book? Most of his criticisms aren't correct or come down to personal preference. The only real issue of the book is poorly fleshed out side characters but it rarely subtracts that greatly from the actual experience
I was wondering when someone was gonna bring up Infinite Jest. I’ve read both and while they’re both challenging, House of Leaves feels like a book that desperately wants to be completed and is willing to help you get there; and while it’s not like Infinite Jest doesn’t care about the reader, I feel like it’s generally much more aloof by comparison.
@@plugshirt1762eh, I've read the book, and I thought it was kinda cool. But I don't think the journey nor the destination we're worth it. The actual characters do subtract from the experience for me at least. Since it is an experience, everyone will come out of it with a different perspective or opinion on it. I spent a good amount of time on it, and while it was definitely an interesting experience, I don't think it was all that. I went in with no expectations for this book and came out surprised but not amazed or anything like that
@@plugshirt1762I think this book should be more "felt" or "experienced" rather than truly read, as it isn't a traditional book. But obviously people have different feelings, experiences, and perspectives. So people are gonna have different opinions on this type of book.
@@idk35740 Yeah by it's nature it's definitely very divisive. I felt as if the actual content in terms of story, characters, and the such was done very well but definitely isn't the main thing that makes the book good. The main thing that made it so fun to read is when you follow along and read as it directs you it feels so disorienting and makes you really feel the horror and insanity the characters are going through especially with the maze chapter if you actually read all the nonsense dead ends in the chapter. As you said it's more of an experience which is why for some people it will feel profound and amazing while for others it doesn't really elicit that same feeling.
It's always odd experiencing media such as this as the actual quality hinges solely on how much it manages to connect to you and usually not much more. Media I've seen like shadow of the colossus or 2001 are lauded by many for how great they are but then I experience them and just walk away feeling like they're alright. It's always interesting how much of a dice roll it is whether it will or won't mean anything to you.
An old friend of mine is obsessed with this book. They were so romantic about trying to solve the mystery of this book that has no answers. A Winchester house of a book. I haven't finished it but there is some poetic lines in this book. Everytime I read it, I see them through the lines.
i am the internet and i have never heard of this book
Yes this is what I’ve been waiting for! MORE BOOK VIDEOS!!! Please do more
House of Leaves is a very cool idea for a book. I think at its core the book is about about the relationship between people and art. Zampano obsessed over House of Leaves much how Navidson obsessed over his documentary and photography. Johnny's fascination with House of Leaves turned to an obsession as his own mental health spiralled out of control. We use art to understand more about ourselves whether as a creator or an observer. my 2 cents.
I adore this book and have read it like five times, but I agree with a lot of the frustrations you listed here. In particular, I think about the scene early on where Johnny goes on a drive with Kyrie, which includes one of my favorite lines in any sex scene ever: "the longest unzipping of my life". But I heard that line first in the remix of "Hey Pretty" by the author's sister Poe, over which he reads an abridged version of this scene and breaks from the chorus right after this line. All of which helps it land way more strongly than it does in the book, where it's just one phrase in the middle of a giant, rambling Johnny sentence.
Still love the book though, and also Poe deserves way more love because her music absolutely slaps.
I never knew that there were these sort of internet nuances about this book. Personally, I'm a huge sucker for horror stories like this. A house that's changing in subtle or huge ways is one of the coolest horror concepts next to doppelgangers I can think of.
I love this book, read it twice. Was going to write a big long butt-mad defense when this came out. But someone I know just bought it and literally the first thing they did was ask someone "you ever heard of house of leaves?" Then flipped through it to show them the weird bits. so shoot, guess ya got me there
Thank you. Reading a novel shouldn't feel like this much work.
Good video. I disagree.
Mandisagreeingthings
Good comment. However I disagree.
Funny enough I am currently reading this book and half way finished that too with great difficulty. Agree with all your points. The first thing I noticed was how terribly the female characters were written. Second was how endless this book seems just like the house at Ash Tree Lane. The only reason I haven't given up is because this book was quite an expensive purchase and I keep having hopes that it will be good at some point
Yeah, I understand that if you're expecting too much from a novel - or any piece of art, for that matter - because of the hype surrounding it, the intellectual material itself can be quite disenchanting. However: I've read and bought House of Leaves three times now, after bumping into it as a twentysomething, in a book store during the early 2000s. It is a magnificent yarn, but faces the same problem as Infinite Jest: the volume is intimidating at first, but once you get stuck in the various narratives, it's hard to find your way out; to explain it to other people can prove to be a futile undertaking - unless they're ready to dive in head first.
That’s funny, this video brought to mind Infinite Jest and I wondered if that would be a more worthwhile endeavor (since they are both classified as ‘endeavors’in my head to me, similar level of hype, similar level of commitment). Of the two, which did you enjoy reading more, if you don’t mind me asking?
@@hinnakoto Both storywise and stylistically, David Foster Wallace is simply the better author; whereas I can understand some people consider House of Leaves' unusual format not much more than a fascinating gimmick, the same cannot be said of Infinite Jest.
Your book reviews are some of my favourite videos. You really spotlight some new stories out there for me to check out.
I think part of the reason people love it is that in an age of ebooks and audiobooks, this is one story that absolutely has to be read in an old-fashioned physical book, and it's designed to make the most of that format. Similarly, you could try reading 'S' by JJ Abrams and Doug Dorst, another book that celebrates the physicality of books, only without the horror element this time.
3:25 is an interesting point because i felt kind of the opposite: in any kind of high concept book like this im always left wishing i was able to dig into the mysteries of the story from what felt like a human perspective the way the house is dug into by navidson, holloway, reston, etc as well as to an extent johnny and the editors. having a book throwing such a monumental amount of information to dig through, even if a lot of it is just superfluous footnotes, still felt extremely satisfying to sift through ime and is a large part of why i keep coming back. very few books have given me the feeling that i could dig into them endlessly and not get bored EVER, and house of leaves is one of the few.
i think the dichotomy between whether you find that aspect of the book rewarding or frustrating is largely determined by whether youre the type to click through wikipedia articles for fun. if you ever go to look something up on wikipedia and end up spending 30+ minutes clicking through and reading pages only slightly related (if at all) to your original inquiry then that aspect of the book probably feels like a rare gift (which was my experience). if that sounds like an unbelievably boring way to spend your time, youd probably get the same feeling trying to get through the literal hundreds of footnotes present in house of leaves.
edit: also, i hear what youre saying re: the sex scenes, but did it not at all feel like that was just the way johnny wrote? i dont feel as though he gives the women he writes about any more or less characterization than even someone like lude. what do we know ab him by the end of the story? hes johnnys friend, likes clubs/drinking+drugs/nightlife etc, good hairdresser, enjoys casual sex? gdansk man is an even more straightforward example. it doesnt feel like hes stripping the women in his vignettes of their depth *specifically*, just that, like you said: his writing style is superficially edgy and thus ALL of the characters he writes about dont have much depth past their "functions" in his life.
like, do we ever hear anything about his boss that isnt some variation of "hes an ugly/uncaring/other negative trait asshole"?
i feel like it could also just be avg time period sexism if nothing else? no footnote in the story dates any later than the turn of the millenium, not like people were as conscious towards gender equality back then as they are currently.
The Five Masters Of Reality
House of Leaves was an SCP before SCP became mainstream and was a strong and unique novel.
I'm surprised that you call the book difficult to get to or frustrating. When reading it, I found it fun and captivating pretty much the whole way through.
I often find it easier to enjoy postmodern works when they're short and sweet. I'm reading "Pale Fire" at the moment, and while it's easy to claim that that novel is too gimmicky for its own good, it's short enough that I can enjoy the gimmick for what it is. That's even more the case with short stories, like those of Borges. But when a novel is just 700 pages of the author trying really hard to be clever...yeah, that gets annoying. If I'm going to invest that much time in a book, I want a strong emotional connection to it; intellectual interest won't cut it.
Great video, as always!
My close friends and I were OBSESSED with this book during the summer I turned 17 (over a decade ago now yikes). We'd compare notes and have long smoke sessions where we'd listen to music and make nachos and talk about HoL and Fight Club, our literary idol from the previous summer. It's strange looking back how certain books overwhelmed our entire group like a new drug. There's no way I'd make it through HoL now. If I didn't have that experience back then and it was recommended to me now I'd view HoL as too "style over substance" and problematic to bother with. Honestly the only part I still love is the Navidson Record.
Yes! Thank you! TH-cam randomly recommended your channel to me and I couldn't be happier. House of Leaves was on my shelf for years and I finally decided to read it several months ago. After weeks of dragging myself through it, I decided not to finish because it felt like I was putting in more effort than the author had. It's just so nice to hear someone share that experience. I wish I had people like you in my real life to discuss books with.
When you said "Both books are more interesting to read about than read themselves" you hit the nail on the head for a lot of mediums nowadays: books, television series, movies. With the rise of TikTokers that review and summarize works and TH-cam video essays/commentary channels, I think creators are able to condense works down to their most interesting components and that's all people really want. Rather than trying to discover that for themselves, they want someone to do it for them. I'll admit I just watched 5+ hours of a multi-part video essay on Dune because I already knew I wasn't going to read the series myself, but I was still captivated by the story.
I bought this book back in 2000, I was in my early 20s. It blew my mind and each time I dug into it, it got me so lost within its pages for hours without going anyplace..
I DNFed this three times over fifteen years.
I think video is a better medium for what he tried to accomplish… but obviously he did something right with how many people enjoyed it.
On the plus side his sister’s two music albums have great writing, and some of the songs reference this book, for those who cannot get enough of it.
I really enjoy the presentation of your videos. I don't read many "real books", but every so often I'll be interested in one and go to watch a review. The problem is that many "booktubers" just kind of film themselves in their room in one long vlog with minor edits. I appreciate that you take the time to change locations and keep the editing snappy. It keeps the video visually interesting without taking away from what you're talking about.
I absolutely loved this book. Maybe it's because I don't frustrate easily? I kept finding things and saying "Ooh, this will be fun to work out later." Thanks for inspiring me to reread it!
Love these kinds of videos of yours - would love to see more
Hang Up the whale painting. It doesnt belong on the floor :(
im too indecisive i don't know where to put it :(
@@ManCarryingThing yes i know the feeling :(
Really nice to see more book content lately! I found you through the skits but the book videos have drawn me in.
Helping me on my quest to get back into reading!
I feel like a crucial reason why House of Leaves became the subculture touchstone it is today is that it, perhaps inadvertently, feels like a progenitor to so much of the current horror landscape. With the ideas of first-person perspective to the point of intentional myopia and lack of understanding of what's Really going on, multiple contexts and layers required to fully understand the plot, and the intertwining of horror and nostalgia, I feel like you can draw a thematic line to FNAF, SCP wiki, and the Backrooms, just to name a few, even if not all of them were actually directly inspired by the book. House of Leaves presages a Brechtian, almost distancing effect approach to horror where intentionally obscuring and alienating the viewer's understanding of the situation engenders a higher level of engagement and personal attachment with interpretations and analysis.
The thing is though, that a crucial part of all of those newer takes on this concept is also that they intentionally trim the narrative WAY the hell back to almost skeletal levels in order to better emphasize the distancing effect, and House of Leaves shows why that is a good idea. It is telling that the best parts of House of Leaves are the parts with the least actual detail, and the ideas and moments with the most page space devoted to them tend to be the worst (see the sex scenes). When House of Leaves actually gives you enough detail to not be distanced, it drags the entire narrative down, and it bloats the story to a poisonous effect. The SCP wiki version of House of Leaves would probably be 1/25th the length and be just as scary.
I was actually genuinely thinking about picking this book up a few days ago. Glad I came across your video. I don't think I'll be reading this anymore, especially since I'm extremely SR and didn't think the book would have that many sex scenes in it, I don't think I'd be able to get through those parts you mentioned. So thanks for the headsup!
As one of those awful, horrible people that has probably destroyed any shred of respect my friends had for my taste in literature by recommending this book online discussions about House of Leaves -- and especially about Johnny - have fascinated me for a number of years now.
I've read it cover to cover twice. And both times, as interesting as the House itself is, it's Johnny that's my emotional tie to the story. I *like* Johnny as a character. Yeah, he's a dirtbag of a human being, but in the early chapters, reading him reminded me of sitting and shooting the shit with my university friends (without the sexism). Half of what he says is completely made up and the other half is mostly made up but you don't want to stop him because who knows what he's going to come up with next. And that, combined with the reminder that the Navidson Record is fictional, makes House of Leaves read to me as a cautionary tale of a young, troubled man getting caught in his own head and destroying his life.
So I always find it really interesting that people write off Johnny as this annoying interjection to the 'real' story of the House, when, to me, he's the core of the narrative.
Imagine not having women (especially as a woman)
I read it over a decade ago and my memory about the details is very vague, but isn't he like the only character? All the other stories were made up by him, all the other characters figments of his imagination or facets of his personality, or whatever.
Chairs aren't for sitting on. They're for decor
I keep trying to get into this book, but it's always been difficult for me just because of my ADHD and how I have trouble reading non visual stories
lol
I already read this bad boy and have my opinions thank you very much but I wanted to leave this comment to let you know you are very good at making videos and I am glad you create content, thank you
now that I watched the video I agree with you 100%
So many people told me that I had to go into this book blind because it was so amazing and that was probably the absolute worst mindset to go into that book with.
**cough*NightMind*cough**
I like the honesty. I tried a few times and couldn't get into it.
I first tried when I read the back and it sounded interesting, and then a few other times when it was recommended..
I'd love a video where you talk about Lonesome Dove; I'm reading it myself right now (about one third trough) and I really love it! Also, I picked up Butcher's Crossing because of you, like 20 pages in rn :)
YES MORE BOOKTUBE!!!
I liked the book bc I saw it as a love story, there’s no room in the house for their love, even when it gets bigger and bigger. Then what saves him from the house truly, is love.
omg!! i was wondering what your thoughts on the book was from your livestream on woman carrying thing! whoO
Man, you must be my favorite youtuber when it comes to books. Just keep those videos coming!
Godd this is so refreshing, Im really glad to finally hear someones take about this book online that I can actually relate to. I personally have not been able to relate to anyone's profound love for it. For such a long read I obviously came away with something, I mean some parts of it stuck with me, but I just couldn't get past the (in my opinion) obnoxious characters, awkwardly sexist moments and the empty-feeling intellectual nonsense. At the end of it all, I kinda just felt like... Yeah, that was a book. I was more proud of myself for finishing something so long than I was happy I read the story. A lot of it honestly felt inaccessible too, like some parts I just didn't understand, namely the random bits and bobbles of information that I guess were supposed to have some connection to the story that I didn't see. Maybe I'm just not the target audience for something written this way.
Also, this is going to sound so weird but I swear to god you look exactly like me but gender-swapped. We literally have the same nose, hairline and everything, its creeping me out. Your eyebrows are better than mine, though.
House of Leaves really makes you FEEL like you're trying to navigate a maze with shifting walls
This book got me back into reading in high school while my lit classes seemed to be actively discouraging a love of reading with the driest canon classics possible. High schools would be wise to promote books like this that young people connect with to keep that spark alive. Even if the books may be overly edgy and pretentious (which lets be honest, describes a lot of teens.)
yup, but I really hate pretentious and edgy things, and I feel most kids hate pretentious things aswell.
I only read the documentary portion. I'm glad the paragraphs were formatted differently so I knew what to overlook. I gave up on the other parts quickly.
I might be the minority of people who read this book in its entirety and enjoyed it and didn't really care a ton about the deeper messages that it supposedly has. The surface level message about the futility of art criticism was interesting, but other than that it was a bunch of stories that I found interesting, and it was fun to try to figure out what exactly was going on.