Micro-transactions RUIN MMORPG's (and why they do)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome
I'm Josh 'Strife' Hayes, and in this series of video essays i'm going to talk about the failings and weaknesses of my favorite video game genre, the MMORPG.
In this video, i'll be looking at micro-transactions, what they are, where they came from and why they're one of the largest causes for concern in the mmorpg world.
If you'd like to chat live I stream nightly on twitch at:
twitch.tv/joshstrifehayes - เกม
![Can you Judge an MMO in just 1 hour? [MMOPINION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JpkGbVVLExw/mqdefault.jpg)
Omg the part about the car... I just started playing Tera never having played before and my first time in town there's a dude in a yellow car honking his horn driving in circles and all I could think was
WTF
lol, it's stupid they have a cop car in Tera as well
@@TheJimmybeatz x
I've got a giant flying Tron-esque motorcycle and swat clothes with a bandana for my Valkyrie character lmao
Tera?
Nvm I reached that part of the video.
The saddest part is after the players have been milked for all they're worth, the game shuts down and you're left with nothing.
i think the saddest thing is the milking of players in the first place
We should all gather together and make a proper "community-made" fantasy MMORPG that's community funded and once-off purchase with no microtransactions
@@djb25 How are you going to continuously fund an MMORPG with a one-time purchase? There has to be a recurring profit in order to sustain a persistent online world. You have to compromise somewhere.
That's one of many reasons why I focus on single player games.
@@zerooskil7161 even sadder that these are actually good games at one point
There's a big problem with "non-gameplay affecting" microtransactions as well in MMOs, how your character looks is PART of the gameplay, it should be a representation of the character's accomplishments, not just something you bought with some and looks more impressive than anything you can get in-game
Unironically, I kind of get anxiety when I'm playing a game and I don't look the way I want to, even in single player games
Just because you can earn it ingame doesnt mean it's fair. Some people dont realize that time is actually a valuable currency. this is why in grindy mmo, you can never stop a gold seller.
Time is indeed a valuable currency. Though, your time spent in a game doesn't feel valuable to you anymore if some other guy can achieve better results than you just by opening his wallet even though he is not even playing a fifth of the time you have spent.
While game studios use your argument for selling boosters, saying they value the time of the players who can not play as much as others, they at the same time invalue the time spent of the players who did not open their wallet.
buyable cosmetics can still devalue earned cosmetics
They can, and often do. IMO it's an acceptable loss, though, if it means the game can stay afloat.
Yea they are the worst imo i hate cosmetics more then anything a huge factor in mmos is the pride in walking around with a unique looking items from a raid cosmetics ruined that.
@@MushVPeets Let them sink.
Well if there are buyable cosmetics and non buyable cosmetics which you can distinguish I think its no problem. For example you can buy a certain helmet which you can only buy but you can also farm a helmet that looks different and is hard to get. People will still want to get the farmable helmet because they want to be acknowledged by other players if they walk around with it.
@@benhavis2474 The problem is games like GW2 where every good cosmetic is in the shop and there is no 'farmable' helmet with similar quality. They even butchered the legendary armor set and then released another cash shop set, with the problem of the legendary set fixed, and banned people from the forums who mentioned the existing problem with the old armor people raided for months for. It still hasnt been fixed to this day and they still remove any post mentioning it.
Dude, this was a great video. Well-constructed arguments, no annoying, forced attempts to be funny. Just facts/opinion, read calmly. Very good voice for these as well. All of this matters to me personally as a viewer. Kinda like video essays for grown-ups. There are too many ADHD squirrels making videos shouting left and right these days. Keep it up, and you will soon have a much bigger audience. You cannot fake quality content. Thank you for these! I will certainly follow you from now on, because I am interested in your input.
P.S. I just returned to Guild Wars 2 after a 6-year hiatus. Did not play any MMOs in the meantime. I am very positively surprised how much fun I'm having, and the microtransactions are quite well implemented. Some of them, like inventory/bank space, irk me though, as I consider that a need in MMORPGs. Eh, I can stomach it, because I have disposable income and am enjoying the game. I will leave as soon as they make them too oppressive.
ArenaNet had 6 years to make microtransactions "oppressive". They haven't. Probably because the expansions are such good value for money, 90% of players buy them sooner or later, voluntarily. So don't worry - the devs have no need for "oppressive" monetization.
Arguably, the only necessary items GW2 cash shop sells are bag slots and bank tabs. But these are Nothing compared to another MMORPG I've played in the past, Allods Online, which at one point retailed a single 20-slot bag for 20 USD! I'm almost glad Allods Online has failed, but it's sad that a shop full of greedy microtransactions was to blame...
@Purdue Pharma Heh, forgot I replied to this. I was full on playing GW2 at the time. During these last two years, I completely stopped playing GW2, got married, and because wife is a WoW player, tried that for a few months, got insanely bored pretty quickly (actually loved pet battles and collecting them more than the actual game), uninstalled that as well, and now I am playing Red Dead Redemption 2 and retro games on emulators. Life is funny. I am not really an MMO player and that is fine.
Cosmetics are how they weasel microtransactions in to them. They say "It doesn't effect gameplay so it's fine" but in reality it is setting a precedent and conditioning the playerbase in to thinking a shop is not just normal, but a _good_ thing, and later on they can expand it to include things like boosts or gold or such and the backlash is far lower than if they did that initially.
Cosmetic can affect gameplay since some design can blend yourself better with the background which as a result to a death over a victory in a pvp battle. It happen many time in shooter and also in Arena Style battler like League when some tech on character are harder to see or badly telegrah
Companies need to make money. If the cash shop stays cosmetic-only, there is no problem.
@@ragiukas That's only correct for games designed as "game as a service"
Best example that comes to mind is League of Legends
It's free to play, so the business model IS to sell cosmetics to make bank, and it does it very well, the game is highly toxic and insuferable sometimes, but it's got "almost" nothing to do with what the devs design. (Not nerfing OP champs with 59% winrate, because they're popular, now that's an occurence that heppens a lot more than i'd like)
Compare that to shit like World of Warcraft, where you buy the game, then the extentions, then the fucking monthly subscription, THEN you have micro transactions for cosmetics ?
Fuck that. Fuck them, they're literally driving the game into the depth with those decisions, and it'll be the death of the game at some point.
Ive played a "Fair" cosmetics game, then people buy cosmetics and sell them to other players for gold and they can be low level and very rich and kill everyone!
The real problem for me is that cosmetic item shops encourage devs to restrict free access to cosmetic customization, which not only creates FOMO for the playerbase, but puts one of the best parts of any RPG, making your character look cool, behind a paywall.
Excellent summary of why so many people are irked by microtransactions. It's not necessarily that a company is selling something, it's that they're intentionally harming player experiences to make that money. I think it's something a lot of people have a subconscious understanding of, but can't put it easily into words. I enjoyed this information!
I've always said "what's the use of playing any game where anyone can just step in and buy their way to the top"?
People should be up in arms about this. It's basically exploitation. We need to contact our senators and burn a wendy's down. Don't give up the fight.
Anyone can just step in and buy their way to the top in real life. Why should the game be any different? It is more immersive
My unexpected takout from this video:
There are 2 reasons why someone will buy something:
1. To solve a problem (to have a need met).
2. To experience a lifestyle. (associating the product/service with a positive experience)
Salesman tactics 101. Don't sell a product, sell a lifestyle.
Wow, I never expected to learn marketing techniques from this video lol. Thank you Josh!
When you watch a video about mmo but then learn about how to be a salesmen. 10/10 video
Neverwinter with dragon born class xD
Yep, spot on
bastards holding an entire race hostage!
@@Orinslayer Dragonborn lives matter
@Josh Strife Hayes what do you think about warframes currency system?
@@jordanhulsey4130 I think it’s quite fair considering you can trade in farm time to another player for the currency and most purchases are either time convenience (3 days for a warframe or 24 hours for a weapon or potato blueprint to build) or cosmetics (skins and idle stances).
Nothing breaks the game in a pay to win situation and the “meta” doesn’t matter because most weapons can be used for the same end goal with the right experimentation and mods.
Horse armour in Oblivion did actually increase your horse's health. It also gave you a bottom-tier nag for free.
Holy balls the negative stuff you said is literally neverwinter mod 16 in a nutshell....and the shit theyve been pulling since mod 6
I didn't. ..I mean there's no way... it couldn't. ...
Yeah.
I knew it
Hell it's team fortress2 and that isn't even an mmo
Wow i really don't understand why you don't have more subscribers, your so clear, direct, and consistent! Keep it up man!
Agree with 99% of this and was a good watch too, I appreciate when you go thru any topic you go thru why you feel as you do, allowing the watcher and listener to understand YOUR point of view and better form our own point of view in result. Outstanding stuff, I think I am going to like this series a great deal. will try and get a few done each day or every other day.
I always dreamed of a game like GTA V online. Now - the only fun I've ever had on it was playing golf with my mates when lockdown hit. While I worked hard, grinding missions for a few fun vehicles, my mate just shark carded a rocket launching batmobile and everything else. Totally devalued my effort.
GTA Online is a haven for tryhards and griefers; you do your stuff and some asshole comes to blast you on his flying bike. *F-U-N* . That's why I used that good ole "suspend - resume" function on your Task Manager. It disconnects everyone else in your Public Lobby so you can play solo and do CEO business. I don't know if it's any different now after the Cayo Perico update though, if they have fixed the "griefer paradise".
@@user-et8vm9cc3t The task manager thing is still a thing. also, whats even worse is that "griefing" is activly rewarded by announcing "hey if you kill this persons hard work you get paid a pitence"
This breakdown of the mindset behind microtransactions is the best I have come across.
And the Salesman part explains why Josh is so good in talking to us in these vids.
If you need info, listen to Josh.
If you want to feel fancy, look at his clothes during his streams. He looks like a college professor.
It’s crazy how much I’ve tried to describe this . and people just seem to not understand or they totally get. it’s like I have money it’s the fact that the game is worse because of it.
My current main game is Final Fantasy 14 and even though I find the ingame shop acceptable... after watching this I can see behind the screens (at least a bit...): in FFXIV the greatest "need" is inventory space. Crafting for excample uses a myriad of materials from different difficulty levels: to craft a high-end item you sometimes need a low-level material (though thats more the case for housing items, not armor and weapons). Anyway, long story short: bag space is in shortage. So you have your Retainers, NPCs that act as a mobile bank. You get two for free - and in the beginning you are like "wow, what that heck, so much space, I'll never fill that up!" - until you start getting deeping into the rabit hole, get more stuff, learn more stuff and ere you can blink you have no more space for anything. You have to start organizing your things, you have to discards others... and the longer you play the more difficult it gets.
The solution (you may have guessed it already) is renting new retainers - for real money! And you don't buy them, nope, you pay each month 2 (two!) Euro in addition to your subscribtion! ... Thinking of that I get kinda salty -.-
I'm barely playing one year now... and the problem already presents itself. And I wont start about the immersion thing... Though I really enjoy this game, the developers like to integrate items from other Final Fantasy games into this one - but some of those are more akin to Science Fiction instead of medieval fantasy (admittedly with a touch of Steam Punk): a "KIT-Nightrider"-like car, a flashy motorcycle, modern style cloth (some of those you can craft ingame) and dances... Its still... okay, I guess...? It doesn't break the immersion too often and its possible to straight out ignore it, let people have their version of fun. But yes, everytime I see that bloody car...
Anyway, thank you for that video :) A must-see for any MMORPG gamer!
Especially in a game where you're already paying a monthly subscription I think that's pretty asinine.
I've gone back and forth on SO many discussions like this with a friend of mine and I've just finally accepted that we're just too different here. I just let him do his own thing now and in return I just don't want to hear about it.
At this point I think it's like a mindset and there are a lot of external factors at play that some people don't really think about. Like not everyone can even pay a monthly subscription in the first place.
This video explains why I stopped giving bdo money a long time ago. The game has many problems and the solutions are only in the cash shop.
Kevin Sess gw2 is the best game out there for micro transactions. I stopped playing BDO and moved to GW2 and have never been disappointed. If you want action combat, some classes can play more actiony too. Give it a try.
@@draconiancorruption2615 My only problem with gw2 is the lack of open world pvp. From someone coming from albion, I want that sort of content. I'm happy with wvw, group fights and the other sorts of pvp in gw2 because open world pvp isn't suitable for this game.
This video explains why I haven't played an MMO since the late 00's.
I didn't like where the genre was heading...
Same here. For me bdo would be a best mmo out there if it had no cash shop, but a subscription model instead.
OPEN
THAT
CHEST
PLEASE!
I did wonder when someone would get irritated at that :P
This is incredibly well stated. You analysis of the transient nature of Need and Luxury with consideration for context and alternatives is well structured, and accurate. I have a hard time explaining this principle to others, but you nailed it. The world needs more of what you do friend. Keep it going.
the problem with microtransactions in any game is in order for them to exist ideas must be made or taken from the base game to fit them in the game to convince you to buy them. Cosmetics are the one's people defend the most but in reality those are outfits/designs removed from the core game and in most cases what remains are ugly aesthetics a good example of this is black desert online where if you have the best gear you look like a freaken tree monster man.... I not saying we should get rid of microtransactions because they do have good sides like helping with the cost to keep a game up and add new content.
I just not sugar coating it
The cosmetic shop in Black Desert Online was the deal breaker for me. I enjoyed the experience, gave them money to access the game, but hated that the characters are designed to look different with different equipment yet the majority earned by playing do not change a thing. I would have to pay even more for the outfits.
Great video. On the ridiculous cosmetics one I feel like this should be easy to solve to keep both parties happy. Most MMOs have an option in the menu to hide other character' names or spell effects...add one for other player's cosmetics so you just see them in their game armor instead.
I personally also can't stand the immersion ruining cosmetics.
I just realized that none of WoW's "microtransactions" are micro. Nothing in the shop costs less than 10 bucks. I don't know why I've accepted it so far, but 25 bucks just to move your character from one server to another is kind of insane. But with a CEO like Bobby Kotick, who's honestly surprised?
tbh back then the price is there to scare you away from it to uphold server communities but nowadays it's just greed.
I first got into on-line gaming with an on-line social game something like that of Second Life or 3DXChat for the adult version of it. As the company had the same design for an adult game and non adult version. This game was out in 2005 when some of the population would park their toons in the social game and log into WoW to play since the game currency was added to an account tied to each character at a set rate of tokens, which was the game money per hour per character.
This game had special outfits and whole apartment buildings set aside for real money. Well above the cost of the monthly fee to play the game, which was $15 for 2 characters or think around $12 for one character. These outfits went for $20-25 per outfit on the website and then around $10-7 on the second hand market. The apartments were around $40+ per apartment never did look into the second hand market as saw the apartments well out of my price range.
The difference between a pay for apartment was that it was already decorated in a specific design by location and had three different sizes of how big. The token(game money) apartments was just empty rooms that needed to be filled.
The thing about cosmetics is that when the game is a dating simulator as well then it becomes a need. As the whole point of dating is standing out and showing status. Now the normal outfits made kind of stand out in a bad way or blend into the crowd.
Since the first game was an older audience that mainly focused on meeting up to chat and play games like bingo, slots, or so odd dice game it was more of a lifestyle. Where the staff would walk around the game with the new outfit to model it for the players. The outfits were contained in an in-game item called a ticket. Which was handed to the player when the order was filled and was tied to a specific character when applied, which was done by special staff. To sell the ticket to someone else was as simple as get the level of staff that could apply the outfit to unbind it from that specific character.
The second social game I got into outfits was more of a need since the audience was a much younger age that was looking to mingle, hook-up, and date. The non basic outfits show more in a dating simulator type of game as more of status symbol to "progress" in the game. Yeah can get their by chatting yet there is always the ones that would want to see more. I mean just look at how peer pressure works on selling Fortnight's outfits.
I really miss the old days of subscriptions. Of course in the end, subscriptions were always going to disappear and microtransactions were going to take over. They even go back further than Oblivion, even though I don't think the originals had as much of an impact on where we are today. The first game I am aware had microtransactions was actually a MUD (a text-based MMORPG) called "Achaea". It had them going back to I believe 1997 or so. They are ridiculously expensive and powerful items called "Artifacts". As an example, the game is very big on PvP and a major component of PvP is finding someone. For about $500, you can buy a cloak that makes you disappear from the game essentially which makes it nearly impossible for someone to hunt you down. Also, while characters did have core stats like strength, agility, etc., there is no in-game way to increasing your stats permanently. However, you can buy artifact rings to increase your stats for hundreds of dollars and these have extremely tangible effects in-game. So microtransactions go further back than Oblivion and even go further back in MMORPGs. And they were broken from the start.
Well even the few mmo's with a sub still, have Cash shop now. Looking at you ESO and FF14.
@@aabenhus They all do now, but there is just a difference between the types of microtransactions they have. They tend to be purely cosmetic or entirely optional in WoW or FFXIV, for example. But F2P MMOs really can't allow players to play for free so they have to make the game funnel players towards the cash shop items to prevent the player from having crushingly slow-to-no progress eventually.
I would say your arguments about microtransactions for purely cosmetic or luxury items being more benign haven't aged well. Mainly because, as we've been seeing in games like Fortnite and Overwatch, now that games are increasing the ways of social communication between players, social interaction has evolved into a core part of the gameplay loop. Social interactions have become just as important as the leveling and combat mechanics. And cosmetic upgrades are closely tied in to the sense of progression within the game, to the point where "default" has become a slur or derogatory term to refer to players with default skins, irrespective of how skilled they are.
From this, we can see that where a specific feature falls on the scale between necessity and luxury is far more subjective than objective, and depends entirely on the prevailing culture. After all, exp boosters can also be considered a luxury, since you can still earn exp without them. And inventory space upgrades, fast travel, mounts, and so on can all be considered purely luxuries as well, since you can still play and complete the game without them. They only slow down the progress.
On top of that, a lot of these 'cosmetic consumables' are soft-locked behind loot-boxes (which are a whole other kind of problem), and are also locked behind a specific window of time when they're available, creating a sense of FOMO or Fear of Missing Out. Overall, they're making the shop into a source of artificial scarcity itself, further creating a problem where there should be none.
You really hit the nail on the head in the video... Keep up you great videos.
It's pretty grotesque what mmo's have resorted to. They seek any and every way they can to manipulate you. From artificial scarcity by releasing limited items to using bots to top highscores in order to entice those top spenders to spend a little more in order to surpass them. Top up just $1 daily and get all this stuff!
&I totally agree, I hate when I hear people say a game is not pay to win because you can just earn all this stuff by playing the game. It's not remotely true. To even compete in these games without paying in the slightest bit you would have to play all day everyday, participate in every event, clear all top content consistently etc. &Still you will not top the list. Basically a full time job just to be a benchwarmer. Now most people who would spend a lot on these games will do all that or most if it already so they do all that free to play player does aswell as the boosts they purchased. That is not a level playing field. That is pay to win. They also say things like, "It costs money like all games", it's jist obnoxious logic. I don't ever mind buying a game or supporting developers but this is blatant marketing teams taking advantage and because it worked every single one of them have followed suit. It's the same thing that happened with Fifa soccer games. They began selling virtual card packs to unlock characters which eventually led to the Wilson Lootcrate which now exists in most modern games. You don't even buy the items anymore. You buy items for a chance to get items. &In some games you buy items to get other items in order to get the actual items. It's like a ploy to see how far we can degrade the system before the point of overwhelming the customer. All over the screen you got advertisements. "First recharge!", "Daily Top-up", "Exclusive Event", "Platinum Upgrade", "Unlock V.I.P" I could go on forever but this comment is unreasonably long already. It's pretty disheartening.
An issue not brought up: If one can do it, they all can do it. And if they see it works, they'll keep doing it.
There's nothing wrong with regulation.
@@jameslucrative2054
Well said
Brilliant explanation. When you want to sell something to solve a problem, you have to create that problem.
And those kind of microtransactions are problematic.
I can see your salesmen experience coming into play here :)
9:28 I thought u would finally open that chest 🤧
This video was spot on, unfortunately it's only going to get worse. People need to seriously ditch the sunk cost fallacy and vote with their wallet. In the last year I completely quit playing MTG Arena and Hearthstone despite loving card games because the amount of grind required to have an even remotely competitive set of decks wasn't worth it and it was calculated to cost hundreds of dollars every single expansion just to get a playset of each card. With MTG Arena it actually costs more in game than it does for the actual paper versions of cards in order to obtain a playset of everything you need since you can buy things directly AND your collection has a resale cost if you ever wanted to get some of your money back from the cards.
There's absolutely zero need for this and hands down the worst problem relating to this is that it encourages companies to hire salesmen for their design teams instead of gamers themselves who want to make a fun product they can pour their design visions into. I think the best example of this is Blizzard, every single one of their series went down hill after they were purchased by Activision. Not only did they flood the games with micro transactions but they started to try to cater to the most casual fan base to cast the widest net to lure in people at the cost of the gaming experience , immersion and tight knit hardcore communities that the companies success was built upon.
Thank you for a good content! Very interesting topics and very good quality of elaboration.
Side question: I have a distinct memory of seeing a commercial on TV in the late 80s. It was on 20/20 during prime time, which was expensive ad time. The thing is, it was an ad for electricity. Not a product that used electricity, or a particular provider or source (like coal or nuclear), just.. electricity.
Like "Electricity is awesome, see how cool it is?"
I have never, for the life of me, ever been able to figure out who that ad was for? I mean, it was on TV... you were /currently already using the product to be able to see the ad/. And it's not like an education ad, reminding people that like.. avocados are a thing. Everyone always already uses electricity. No one is going like "well, I /could/ use electricity, but I think I will react chemical isomers instead..."
Any thoughs on what that might have been?
@Josh Strife Hayes again asking in this video as the question has yet to be replied to but if you do elsewhere, no need to answer this too..but I wanted to know if your going to be doing your big 2019 coverage for the mmo ESO or if you feel you will not get the time to do that or anything else on the game until 2020 since when I looked for it i saw no ESO content or discussion on the channel. Thank you again for your love of the mmo space and the quality you put into these videos to edit, script and upload.
You style of analysis and breaking down problems starting with the root causes and definitions, and building up from there is extremely rare, I think your the only channel I have seen to create logically structures content like this. Where did you learn this, what are favourite books? Did you have an influential mentor? I have so many questions. Sorry for the long rambling, I just wanted to say your videos are a logical pieces of art that I savour every time.
That's one of the exact reason that I love Guildwars 2, it has the most fair Cash shop out there. I have never felt like I had to buy somthing. And since it has no Subscription Like other MMO's (which by the way also has a cash shop, I find that pretty absurd) I wanted to give them some money, since all of their content outside of expansions where free. IMO the best MMO out there :)
Ya I would have to agree. Sometimes I think it’s amazing they are even still going! And it just shows you how much of a rip off the other ones are if guild wars two can afford to do that and they’re not even that big of a game anymore. I don’t like that you can’t get good looking stuff achieving in the game other than legendary’s and Some ascended but I have bought stuff from the shop with in game currency. And it’s the only shop that doesn’t rub me the wrong way.
And even if you want to buy something from cash shop you can always buy gems for gold. I have spent around 20k gems, all got from from gold i got from just playing game for 1-2h per day.
GW2 is a good game but I wouldnt call it best MMO. Its also the only MMO to my knowledge having a gold selling mechanic inside its shop... wouldnt call it "most fait cash shop" either when you can turn your gems into gold.
@@m.poppins4843 eh, runescape does the same thing - need some gp? buy a crapton of bonds and sell them on the GE
i know one game that genuinly handles micro transactions well and that is vigor from bohemia interactive.
the game is free to play
it has an ingame currency called crowns
crowns can be either bought or earned ingame by gathering airdrops.
airdrops occasionally have crowns in them ranging from 10 crowns to 155 crowns.
crowns can also be earend in your own base by upgrading the antenna (which doesnt give you a whole lot, but its still something) this is generaly in the 10 crowns per day range
you can also get crowns in season passes. i dont have the precise numbers here but with the full pass you should get around 1000 crowns
there are 4 different things you can buy with crowns:
cosmetics. (these vary wildly from 100-1000ish crowns
boosters which affect everyone in your round, not only you. for 30 crowns
the season pass. which if bought once and completed, emediatly pays for the next one and some stuff ontop of it. for 690 crowns
and lastly, insurance. which will let you and everyone in your squad keep their stuff if they die for 60 crowns (it is considered by most players to not be worth it so its bought very rarely.
there is a handfull of outfits that have to be bought in rather expensive packs, but again, they give no ingame advantage and with each of these packs you also get several thousand crowns ontop.
having said all this, you can get everything in the game, without paying a single buck, including allmost all the cosmetics (given, that will take a long while) in a game that is already free to play.
or you can be a lazy ass and buy the stuff, which realy only gives you cosmetics. there is no real ingame advantage that you can pay for with the minor exeption of insurance, which as said most people think is completely pointless since just replacing the stuff you lost isnt that hard
it has to be added that the methods to get crowns ingame are realy not well monitored (something that can be said about a whole lot of this game). the major hurdle to get to them is other players who will also do their hardest to aquire these things. however they still pay well enough that you should realistically never have to pay a dollar for the game
Great Video! I know this is two and a half years late and i believe you changed your mind about some things you said in the video (judging from what you said in your "7 deadly sins of MMOs" series), but i still want to make a point.
You differentiated between things one needs and things that fulfill a lifestyle to then come to the conclusion cosmetic items would not solve a "need" and thus it is ok to sell them via micro transactions. there are two counter arguments i have:
1) the game itself fulfills a lifestye and does not solve a direct need, so (applying transitive logic) everything in the game also is to fulfill that lifestyle and not to solve a need.
2) there are many players playing games for the sole purpose of having a certain "lifestyle" in the game. there are also games with no other content than "lifestyle". even in games like WOW this can be the main content for some people as one can see in modern WOW, where a huge portion of the content are mounts and transmogs.
i would define either nothing in a game as "needed" (since gaming is a lifestyle in itself) or everything an individuum wants to have in order to play the game the way they like to (including cosmetics).
in my opinion micro transactions are in general the worst way of financing a game since from a player perspective it is totally unclear which micro transactions will be implemented in the future, how much they will cost and how important they will be to fulfill the personal desires in the game.
I love how when you listed off everything in a mmo that can be monetized everything you said is quite literally monetized in fiesta online.
He did a video about Fiesta too
@@casjordan5756 yeah but as a community member and long time player of the game (even to this day raiding) he definitly didnt see all the shittyness that is there
Yet again, completely agree. I think another interesting thing that can happen is when even the type of rewards we think are acceptable, say a mount that is purely cosmetic, becomes the focus for the developers and there is not enough of these rewards, or really interesting ones, that can be earned by playing the game and completing challenges. Thinking of mounts, WoW is a great example. Now, all of the "coolest" and unique mounts are the ones that are able to be purchased, while the ones you can get without money tend to be lazy reskins of existing models. This is a dangerous trap for the company to fall into, because it takes little work and resources for the developer to create a huge influx of cash that makes the shareholders happy.... essentially a digital comparison to being able to print money out of thin air.
Its not just a way to say "you dont have to pay", its also a way to train you to using their curency, thinking of it as 10 preniumcoin is 15 hrs game play, oh 100 for £5, thats 150hrs work for £5, it helps create an idea of the value of the curency disasociated from real money and with an inflated value
In general, a cash shop should respect what I call the spirit of games, which is that winning or doing well in the game should be the product of either luck or skill and that rewards and progress should be a way of showing people what you have earned with your time.It should be at the reach of all players equally without elements outside the game influencing it (such as money). To understand if something goes against the spirit of games or not, basically ask yourself if it would be acceptable in a traditional non-betting type game, such as a tabletop game.
Modifying the appearance of the character is one of the most basic incentives to progress in a game. It is important that things like mounts, cosmetics, dyes, weapons and decorations reflect the effort and skill of the player. And also why not? in some cases they should also reflect your luck. Opening a chest and encountering a super rare item is one of the most exciting moments in an RPG.In the same way, the gold and the tokens that may be in the game should be obtained by playing since they also represent the time invested in the game.
Paying for items that improve weapons, armor, or character stats also goes against the spirit and essence of the games.Potions, crafting materials or any other item that needs grinding should also be a reward for playing and investing your time.Finally, exp boosts, or any other object that substitutes time or gold (it is also achieved by investing time) for the player's money should be avoided. Mmos that allow you to pay to automatically reach the top level recognize their own failure as a game. If your gameplay is so boring that people are willing to pay money to skip it, your game is not very good and if you are the one offering to pay to skip it, you are aware of it.
The things that are acceptable to have in a cash shop are the ones that least go against the spirit of the game. It is inevitable that an MMO has a cash shop so it is impossible to respect the spirit of the game 100%. Therefore we must be somewhat flexible in this regard.In my opinion things that improve the quality of life without presenting a disadvantage for people who play without paying or a disregard for their time are the best option. Examples of things that in my opinion are acceptable in a cash shop: summon merchant (eso); summon banker (eso); pet that collects drops and / or gold for you (sro); portable mailbox; something that indicates the shortest path to quest objectives; cosmetic modifications only visible by the player; such as customization of the UI-emotes; gestures, dances, etc; expansions; race / appearance / name change; character slots; server transfers...
The biggest problem is the economic system. Regardless of the sales model it will never be enough because the economic system we live under requires ever increasing profits and yet will always run into diminishing returns.
Good video, clearly and concisely narrated - and I agree wholeheartedly with your message. However, having Guild Wars 2 run in the background felt like a poor choice, as its microtransaction system is arguably one of the least intrusive and manipulative out there.
Sorry, jumped the gun there a bit. I guess that's why one should never comment before watching until the end. ;)
comment first lol
Yeah... if you were of that Bourne Identity genre poor Josh would be done for and none the wiser!
Im sorry, but you are fucking wrong. GW2 has become so based on MTX that the game is only about how much gold you have, and the game sells you gold directly. Everything is purchasable with gold. A game based around cosmetics, in which the best cosmetics are in the cash shop, and really the only ones that matter. Legendries are for gold, and you buy gold from anet.
The least intrusive is actually league of legends, where they arent selling you convience or things that affect gameplay.
@@frostdracohardstyle Haven't played GW2 in a long while. Back when I played, having MTX present didn't affect my experience in the slightest. Maybe that has changed *shrug*
I love how much this digs into Neverwinter without actually naming it.
Pretty awesome considering his channel started with Neverwinter and he did love that game.
I don't even play MMO's anymore, heck I never really did play a lot.
But then here I am, binging all your videos. Watching the Patreon wall increase then decrease.
And I come to the start of this video, which I don't think even has the Parteron backers yet.
It's not an MMO, but the experience is similar:
I used to play a lot of Rocket League. They started adding Microtransactions with small car packs. You could buy the Batmobile for 2 or 3€, which was perfectly fine.
Then they invented crates. You'd pay 1€ to open a crate and have a 1% chance of getting a desirable item. In 99% of the cases you'd get mostly crap. You could combine 5x crap to get 1x less crap, but you couldn't upgrade to the desirable items. Also the RNG animation looked a lot like a slot machine and the crap item you get would almost always be just 1 above or 1 below the desirable item.
Obviously: while they create the lootbox system, they didn't develop features for the game.
Unfortunately they had to change the RNG animation because of serious criticism of it being too addicting to players who easily get addicted to gambling. So the dev team spent time on creating a new RNG animation. Next they started to create an "eSport shop" where you could buy some sub par looking items having the logo of your favorite eSport team on it. Still, during this time they did not release any new features for the game.
Along came epic games and bought psyonix. The loot box system had to go now because they wanted to expand to asian countries where these mechanics are forbidden. SO the developers spent more time on removing the lootboxes and replace them with blueprints. Now you can see what you get before you buy it, but also the price went up to ~40€ for a desirable item. This way too high price was calculated, so the players would complain and they could "listen" to their playerbase and "reduce" the price to a still too high price of 20€ per desirable item. (20€ is what the entire game cost when it was released). By the time the blueprint system was released almost 18 months have passed without a single noteworthy feature being added to the game. It was all implemented monetization.
And I admit, I paid a lot of money through this system. At least a couple 100€ based on the rough estimate, that a game is worth 1€ per hour of fun I have with it and I was fine with paying that much money for the game to support further development.
Oh, and I forgot to write about the "Rocket Pass": You pay 10€ and get items for 3 months. The first 2 Rocket Passes had pretty cool items, but the newer Rocket Passes had fewer and fewer desirable items in it. Some of the stuff was based on some meme and other stuff was just straight up ugly. Also it clutters your inventory. After some time I had more than 1000 items dues to Rocket Pass and it has become basically impossible to through the items properly. It really made me hate these MTX with a passion.
In July 2020 the new Trackmania came out. And I was SO happy that it has a subscription model that allows you to pay 30€/year (60€ for 3 years) and not be bothered with any payments at all in the game. With monetization out of the way, the developers can actually focus on creating new features and increasing the quality of the game. And that's what Nadeo delivered during the first 9 months of the new Trackmania.
Working my way though these videos because I feel largely the same but haven't been able to put it in to words as effectively. I do think Guild Wars 2 has a huge issue with creating a lifestyle problem solved by the gem store. For me, the problem they created is a huge lack of endgame or high-end rewards, mainly certain types of skins such as for gliders or mounts. Having mounts be so prominent and useful throughout the game now and having zero earnable skins outside of the shop, feels extremely sad for me.
It's the exact same thing in ESO 😢
Great, now you've made me question my laptop purchase.
I convinced myself I need it for uni so I can do work in the library. The last 3 semesters were all during the pandemic and as a result, the library could only be accessed to borrow and return books. Which meant I had to do all the work from home. At home, I was far less productive than I was in the library.
I'm not entirely sure if laptops are purely a lifestyle choice. I think human psychology is too complex for that categorisation.
During the sales pitch in the job interview, I can sell the need for mobility. A laptop meets that need a little less sufficiently than a smartphone, which I can tuck away in my pocket, but far more sufficiently than a computer. Plus, with the addition of cloud services, I can use downtime wherever I am, to continue work on projects that I left unfinished at my home desktop. And then when I get home and return to my computer, I can take a small breather, knowing that there is less work to do on the project, which means I get to enjoy more of my evening. Certainly you won't disagree that free time is a need, right? It's not purely a lifestyle choice to need free time, otherwise burnout wouldn't be a thing.
Now you can tell me what a terrible salesman I would make ;-)
See here, I once did the maths for Lord of the Rings Online and found out how much time would one have to realistically spend collecting Turbine Points to unlock other areas of the game, instead of paying for it. And once I had the result before me, I uninstalled the game and went back to playing World of Warcraft on a shitty private server because it was free and I had everything accessible from the get go.
at 7 minutes in i was compelled to pause this, and go YT the south park beer commercial. Still a laugh.
Every MMO player should watch this
The horse armor in Oblivion made your horse a bank.
Warframe has a pretty healthy premium currency exchange, it can be earned by trading with players rather than grinding from the server. Ultimately, the currency is bought by another player, but it allows the buyers to supply the earners. This also follows a system where the content can be appropriately earned in game and bought from players who farm with the premium currency rather than the game itself.
nothing in Warframe is healthy
@@diopm8328 I would say that if nothimg else then at least the ammount of ass is healthy.
Best sales lesson I ever heard!
This goes so far beyond MMO’s. This is the great battle of gaming that is fast approaching. Micro-transactions are going to start getting litigated against.
Where did you hear that?
great video its a con never mind fact how many of these games close down as soon as the big bucks stop rolling in
Cosmetic microtransactions actually remove content from games, even more so in MMORPG's. Where they are done tastefully (i.e. matching the game's theme) they often could have been offered in the course of the game. Creatures used as mounts in cash shops, for instance, are often encountered in the game world and even used by players at different times. By removing the opportunity to earn these in game and only available via a cash shop it demoralizes players and often sours them to the game experience as a whole. No matter how hard they pursue a goal, no matter how much time they invest, no matter the drive, they simply cannot achieve what should be offered in the game world just due to the company wanting to make money.
I used to be okay with cosmetic only cash shops, but between the above and these types of cash shops often devolving into offering more game altering services through microtransactions, I simply don't want to see them. At least in an FPS, a new weapon skin or a new outfit has less of an affect on the overall aspect of the gameworld than one that uses RPG elements in it's basic foundation. But immersion breaking stuff is bad in any game (usually).
It's also bad when companies offer packages to get players to sign up for chunks of time to ensure a continuing stream of players. You often see this during a drought for P2P games among other types. These come as offers of "Sign up for six months, get a discount, and get all of this other cool stuff." They come along offering exclusivity and a perceived deal. Players often think "Well, I'll be subbed anyways, so why not sign up for six months/a year all at once - it's cheaper." They lock themselves into paying upfront under contract with the company not obligated to provide anything else to them. They feel more pressured to play even when there is nothing to do and they would have taken time off because they've already played and leads to things such as burnout and even feeling tricked.
Oftentimes, cosmetic only items are used in these deals - transmogs, mounts, pets. Other games offer more substantial benefits to locking oneself in. In the end, it's all the same - they have your money and you have no recourse if things change (or don't change as the case may be with MMORPGs).
It's bad all the way around. Cash shops prey on people in a variety of ways psychologically and it's not healthy for the players or the game industry as a whole. Unfortunately, due to their very nature, players won't stop using them.
So true - but as you said its too profitable to not to do it. I would love to play some oldschool gameplay in a new mechanics/graphic design. But games are getting less and less an interactive art and more and more addiction market
My fav mmo is guild wars 2. Now it does have loads of convenience items and its outfits cost like 5 or 10 bucks a pop. This also means the coolest stuff in genuinely in the shop. But I still feel it is mostly fair. Though that lootbox shit is bad and I am glad living in Belgium, we can just buy what we want.
regarding the insufficient inventory issue, one of the things in Runescape3 (not OSRS) is the summoning skill. Some of the familiars developed for this skill are beasts of burdens, with the higher level BoBs able to carry higher inventories. This obviates using MTX to solve this p;roblem.
A lot of the MTX in the game is for #2. Runecoins is mostly cosmetics except for some added bank space, but so much of the Treasure Hunter has bonus xp stars and lamps, I'm not in favor of. BC this allows players to level faster without actually doing the work.
This is why I stopped 'paying' ESO online, over a year ago, after playing it for over 5 years...
The housing and mounts were particularly bad iirc in eso. Butbthats not why I stopped playing. It was because the end game got very grindy and boring.
It is funny that you have GW2 running in the background and even said that it does a good job, because it actually is the exact opposite of a good system.
I don't mind cosmetics being sold in the cash-shop, if there are enough cosmetics of equal quality provided ingame, through ingame achievments or as ingame rewards.
GW2 did that well in the beginning, but they made a harcore 180° after PoF. There are hundrets of mount-skins, but at the time I stopped, only 1 was available ingame, through... PvP, well WvW. There is the fractal-infusion that gives your character a.. space-skin texture of sort and that infusion is not easy to get. In PoF they released an outfit that gives you the same effect, just way higher quality. The list goes on and on, shortly put: the amount of good ingame goodies got lower and lower and the amount of HQ cash-shop items higher and higher. Less content as well, more cash-shop items.
I also like that you pointed out the transaction system some MMOs have. GW2 is a star-example in that. Players blindly defend the game, because you can invest ingame-currency, to get the cash-shop currency without spending a cent. And you said exactly why it is unrealistic.
Yes, most GW2 microtransactions don't affect gameplay, but i still think it is scummy as a company to only provide good things in the cash shop and to update that weekly with newer, flashier, better looking skins/outfits/mounts, especially a game you actually have to pay for.
These are NOT fine, like I said, there needs to be a balance. FF14 has a very good balance. There are so many things obtainable ingame, and i think only 10-15 mounts get added in the store over the time of one expansion, aka 2 years. Compare that to GW2, i dare you.
amazing vid josh
I played Final Fantasy XIV for several months a few years ago. One of top reasons for quitting was the limit to how many glamours/transmogrifications you could have at any one time which could be (partially) solved by paying extra monthly fees for more storage (in the form of hired hands who have their own inventory spaces and whom you could send out to gather crafting materials).
Games with subs, have no excuse.
Well at least there's one fix to that lately, they added glamour dressers which can hold a total of 400 items for you at a cost of a single glamour prism per item. It is then free to apply that glamour stored on any of your items as many times as you like.
Great and underrated video.
The original gamers from the 80's and 90's have all grown up and now posses an income of their own. Game companies nowadays focus on them instead of the pre-adult teens who only have pocked change and need permission of their parents to buy stuff.
When I started playing 'Guild Wars 2' it was at the very release of the game.
I discovered very quickly that I could convert game money (gold) to premium currency (gems) AND since the player driven market was only starting out, the conversion rate was excellent.
I bought character slots for all the possible classes + extra slots, I upgraded my bank, upgraded the inventory slots, ... for all my characters. It was, for someone who was playing every day multiple hours, not an effort at all. And I would never have been able to convince my parents to spend extra money on a game.
Yes ... most ppl had way more gold then me those first 2 years ... but ... by the time the mainstream players started doing it, the inflation was real and nowadays it's not worth it at all because the conversion is so awful nowadays.
So yeah I can't call it 'fair' nowadays and it only ever was the first year to year and a half.
Furthermore the in-game clothing has never been as awesome as the cosmetic items one can buy. I was and have always been quite disappointed by that.
In 'Guild Wars' one could have as many 'builds' as one wanted and they were stored on your computer. You also had multiple tabs for sets of equipment to swap on the fly. In 'Guild Wars 2' you need to unlock extra 'equipment tabs' and 'skill tabs' to have multiple builds.
New unbreakable 'harvesting tools' with an extra buff are only available on the store ... the first ever came without buffs ... nowadays most come with them and ... at the same price that the first ones without buffs came out.
Infinite usable 'salvage kits' are the only efficient way to salvage all the crap one accumulates in game; most of this crap serves absolutely no purpose outside filling up inventories and requiring salvaging.
'Teleportation tools' while not needed are extremely convenient.
Even with all the micro transaction unlocked bank and inventory slots, one still runs out of space for crafting materials and one could easily fill all of the inventory with those materials ... which seems a lot ... but only a single component from a legendary weapon will demand those insane amounts of materials many times over ... .
And of course everyone's favorite the 'loot box' (black lion chest) with a minimal chance of dropping a 'permanent portable service' like a banker, merchant, hair dresser, ... and random cosmetics that are even more impressive than the cash shop buyable ones.
They also give a very little amount of 'currency' that can be used to buy exactly what you want ... but ... only the cosmetic stuff AND the amount of these you need ... is ridiculous. I only every used the free ones and started playing the game at the start and even I have not enough by now to chose 2 items.
In Belgium 'loot boxes' are seen as gambling by the law and thus are not allowed. We can't even buy them in the game and for us the packages containing them are greyed out in the shop.
I hope way more countries will adopt that law so at least people can buy what they want and not have to gamble real money for it ... .
So in the end even 'Guild Wars 2' who prided itself on being 'casual' and 'player friendly' became more and more micro-transaction based and I don't think there is a single serious player who doesn't own quite a bit of these items and services most of which are needed AND which in the old days would have been included within the game to be unlocked for free by playing.
Don't get me wrong I love 'Guild Wars 2' and mmo's in general; they're about the only type of games I play nowadays.
Since I work full time and thus no longer have the amount of gaming time I once had ... I often find myself simply buying micro transaction items and premium currency to get the most out of the time I have.
Companies know that their original customers from the 80's and 90's have all grown up AND now have way more money to spend ... so ... most of them cater to this clientele, instead of the pre-adult teens they used to.
It must suck to grow up now as a player and having to convince non-gamer parents to spend all that extra money for a single game ...
Some games are even optimised for adults with in-game farming so inefficient that paying real money is the only way.
I started playing 'Eve online' not to long ago. I like it quite a lot but ... I ended up spending about a months wage to get my character the skills, ships and equipment I need to start making optimal amounts of in-game money.
If I hadn't done that I would have probably spend the better part of the next two real life years not even approaching what I have now.
This game is lots of fun but ... it's for adults with money ... and ... since game companies want to earn money ... more and more games are targeted towards them.
I'd argue that within gaming the base idea goes back to the arcade days (*cough* Gauntlet *cough*) and was relatively common in the US online world before Oblivion.
What's your opinion on Memberships like what Runescape did, where paid Members had more bank space and later on houses
Fortunately Eve Online has gone with a free to play trial, backed by their original monthly subscription for the full game. There's some cosmetic based micro transactions, but they aren't obnoxious or all that relevant. I bought a few for the novelty, and it is fun to occasionally spot one on another player, but mostly a non-issue.
I'm currently building a sailing MMO, free to play, but plan to offer a few DLC packs which give some perks, but the base game is intended to be fully enjoyable without them.
sailing MMO will it be like Pirates of the Burning sea or more like Naval Action? iv been waiting for ever for another sailing one
This is so educational!
I play black desert online as a trader and i just love that only part of the game. I make enough money within a month to buy very expensive equipment and skins for all my classes through the community shop.
I'd like to see how make a way for games to open up to all (free to play) but can still monetize for those who can pay without blowing out the balance or abusing "whale" spenders. One idea is the ideal core game loop is adventurer is free then the crafter side of the game is an add-on that makes a different class of weapons but doesn't invalidate the npc shops. Balancing that would be a nightmare but I image it could be done. Is there a game that's successfully done this?
10:15 ESO crafting supplies that gobble up inventory space "solved" with a recurring subscription fee. In a game I already paid for. >:-(
The single issue that keeps me on the fence about committing to fully immerse myself into the game. It's such a transparent insult to anybody paying attention.
ESO is the one mmorpg that I really actually do want to play, but exactly that one thing ensures that I won't.
First off as I don't think I remember to say it enough thanks for your time. Now let's start with you listed okay category cosmetics. This attitude has lead to a point where in many games the ability to even make a character worth having can cost copious amount of money. (See Vindictus etc.) So would you please think before making a statement as allot of us would prefer to not have to pay up the nose to not hate looking at our own characters. Now the more important point, the actual cost comparison between the two items for purchase. To simply make an item that expands your pack space cost the company almost nothing. It was literally part of the development cost of the game. But as someone that has putzed around a fair amount with the two core systems required it's gonna cost a Hell of allot more to make an outfit. You have to fit it to every possible toon shape. You have to do the best you can do to account for clipping. Probably the highest artistic skill required is the part where someone has to actually come up with the skin that you will be using. Skins are generally done outside of the 3D plain. Which means it takes a very particularly talented person to generate them. These folks don't come cheap. Let's not even consider the animators or those that will make the required adjustments within your engine to the skins. So lovely idea let's expect a publicly traded company to choose the worst money maker they can get their hands on!
Okay I bring it up allot but, let's discuss the difference between a publicly traded company and a privately held one. You brought up a point that old farts like me get all warm and fuzzy over morals. Private companies to a very much larger extent can live by them. This sadly just is never going to be the case again for publicly traded companies. (unless the world magically changes) Publicly traded companies at the end of the day answer to one thing, their share holders. Better put the answer to their stock value. It makes a world of difference. I've run small businesses before. It offered me and still to a great extent offers others the chance to make a living they can be proud of. Publicly traded entities are totally different. Ever wondered why every third company these days seems to be into literally every? It's because modern share holders will not accept the notion that such a thing as a profit ceiling exists. So the companies have to find a way to make it a reality or get killed in the market. They may well have some truly morally sound folks working for them. But in the sense you're discussing morals it's not something they can do and survive most of the time.
Let's talk about the other side of a moral question. Why did the company go public? What other reason, to expand and make more money. The process of doing so means employing allot more people. So if they did take the kind of high ground approach that netted them very functional profits what happens. Most of the time they are literally treated as a loss. Example printed news media is noted as at one time making 20 cents on the dollar. Trust me to a small businessman that a damn tidy profit. To the stock market it's a net loss. So now we have the company head who in this case is actual a very moral person. He very well understands the level of price gouging his company is doing to maintain that stock value. He doesn't like it. But guess what the most common result of falling stock values are massive layoffs. So he get's to weigh keeping up a business model that makes him unhappy against, making large numbers of people unable to feed their families. Not as much fun to look at it. But it's very real thing.
I'd argue the real problem that is making it go nuts is the price point. To use your own words there is nothing micro about the transactions. It a case of cost over volume. What needs to be done in a real way is to show companies the net benefit of volume. Right now they believe they are getting the best of both worlds. This is no small part due to the "I gave you my time mindset." The problem is it's dead wrong. (calm down I'll explain) To the business that paid the development and PR cost for the product your time does nothing. For the maintenance cost of the required employees and server framework your time actually hurts them. The time that you spend playing and not spending a cent does nothing but loose them money! This is a simple fact of life. I'm not saying anyone's personal time isn't valuable. I'm saying your personal time won't keep the lights on at the business operating whatever game you're in. So like it or not one of the first things that would have to happen if they did lower the price point to a sane level again would have to be massively increased sales. Remember though Ferrari did indeed fail and get bought out by Ford, they did indeed just on cost alone operate at a profit for a long time. So like or not allot of the my time crowd that actually can afford it are going to have to get willing to open their wallets. (for those that can't I feel for ya been there myself) If they don't the normal business reaction would be to immediately jack the prices back up. This is to say go back to making their money through cost.
If we ever want things to get better we're going to have to learn to talk to the businesses in a language they can understand. The businessman in me literally screams when I hear some of the common complaints. Because from a business stand point the things your complaining about literally offer the highest pay off. The trick isn't to yell and whine until they give in. They aren't your parents or spouses they can literally not give two good shits. The trick is to show them how much more than can make with a model that in the end is actually more morally sound. But that takes being willing to show them that it's the better option. Not just screaming about the one we currently have. Which sadly these days seems to be all anyone is willing to do.
It's worth noting that lotro allowed you to earn quite a bit by making new characters. As a result, I was able to farm around 100 currency an hour, giving around 20 hours of play for a new expansion. Maybe an exploit? But still pretty decent.
22:07 tera come to mind.
Absolutely spot on.
I am a LOTRO player and have been for more than a decade ... and microtransactions have morphed from cosmetic and nice-to-have to pay-or-grind-fir-weeks territory. So now, I play ELITE instead and only play LOTRO once a week with a couple of friends running low level toons through landscape content. The bean counters might think they are being clever but they are extracting short term eggs from a Golden Goose they are slowly strangling to death.
I HATE freaking out of place cosmetics in fantasy mmorpgs. That's just an insta uninstall.... Like cars and shit as you mentioned.
Took the words right out of my brain 🤯 Like how you phrased it “are they selling you a lifestyle”. World of warcraft had it figured out with the subscription model, until greedy corps like activision came along and played their little numbers games with our childrens minds
A constant thing I've noticed with these videos is that the one thing the modern mmo lacks is the journey. I downloaded old school runescape and it was like a glimpse into a different time.
Old school RuneScape is still the best mmo I have ever played sadly. Not an mmo but a good game as long as you don’t look up anything is Outward. Game reminded me that inconvenience from games was half the fun.
Only just come across this video and agree almost entirely.
One disagreement but it's minor. Some games actually DO have significant rates of earning the cash store credits in game. I'm thinking of Dungeons and Dragons Online specifically here - a powergamer could unlock all the significant cash store purchases in a pretty short timeframe, certainly long before achieving maximum experience (due to that game's quirks, max experience is an enormous feat). You'd quickly get all the cash store races, classes and the mini-expansions. You'd even be able to afford any tomes you don't happen to loot.
What are your thoughts on mini-expansions? Before it became a pay-to-cheat shitfest, DDO had a very interesting business model where the main revenue was selling quest packs. Equivalent would be if World of Warcraft sold each overworld zone and all of its dungeons for $6 (or whatever), and each raid tier for $8 (or whatever). Of course, DDO then went into microtransaction creep, selling all sorts of pure power items, and basically the store went from 'buy content here' to 'buy cheat codes here'.
So, I was watching this, and you mentioned this in passing. Im just slightly confused and hope you'd be able to elaborate:
You mentioned a moment about player housing. Is that a want, or a need? I can see the reasoning for both, but within the context of microtransactions, Im not sure where. Wouldn't having your own place be a thing they removed if you can only buy it via Mcio Transactions?
Thanks.
He was talking about it as a lifestyle, however for me it entirely depends on the function of the player housing.
If you can store things there saving bank space or gain certain buffs like sleeping giving an xp buff then i'd argue its selling a solution, If the house is just somewhere to go afk or invite ingame friends then its a lifestyle imo.
Let's look at 3 examples:
1.World of Warcraft - Has both varieties of microtransactions, although more need-based ones are either the subscription fee or expansion level stuff you said doesn't count. One of the ways they solve the "fairness" of everything is by making wow tokens a currency players can pay other palyers with, such that last I checked, a wow token was a trivial grind. I was popping several per month and was preparing to buy cosmetics with wow tokens because I had enough to spare. Overall, wow is a fairly reasonable game in that it's monetization scheme is less difficult for poor players than back when it was subscription based, and there's no pay-2-win options available.
2.Clash of Clans - This is an interesting example of a game and how it's evolved it's microtransactions over time. Clash originally was just "pay to progress" with long upgrade timers gating access to top-tier gameplay, with microtransactions to solve that problem and only that problem. What's worse is that the expenditure required to actually see notable progress required either careful bargain-hunting or hundreds to thousands of dollars. However, in recent years, a few interesting things happened. First, they introduced CWL alongside rewards that specifically mirrored(but were upgrades to) mtx options, gated behind competitive success. Second, they introduced the Gold Pass, which can be described as an "opt-in subscription fee". And while making gameplay feel sucky so that players dump an infinite amount of money into the game is completely unethical, making the gameplay feel sucky until they dump $5 per month is not. In the latter case, it's just an actual subscription fee, but with a free trial. Otoh, that's not **REALLY** fair with Clash of Clans. The Gold-Pass is a notable boon, but the game has been made less sucky around it as well. Basically, while Clash has flaws, it's a game who's monetization scheme has progressively gotten better, not worse, over time. And there's no pay-2-win options. The best players will always be based solely on how well you can play the game among those players with a maxed account, and not how much money you can pour into your account.
3.Path of Exile - Mtx comes in two forms in PoE: Cosmetics and stash tabs, basically. And while the latter are **VERY** much the problem you describe, PoE has consistently held to an interesting balance-point. That being that for a flat $60 fee, you can get enough of them to cover basically all needs in the primary game-mode that the vast majority of players play. After that initial buy-in, people may opt-in for more, but they're doing so based not on "need" but "brand-name"-ish reasonings. Much like buying a second car or something. Nobody can make the argument that you "need" more than that. And it's held to this pricing model for years. Cosmetics genuinely seem to be their primary cash-cow among high-investment players, while most players who spend
From someone who made tens of thousands in gold multi-mapping Auric Basin and opened 300,000 chests in the Domain of Kourna chest room, I made enough to buy anything I wanted in the game, except legendary items. Yes, it was a grind and I spent hundreds of hours doing it and it might have been just cheaper to buy the stuff with real money. GW2 does monitor these things and eventually patched these revenue paths to prevent players like me from making large amounts of gold and these ways are no longer available which does hurt current players who did not get to be part of the gold rush. Looking for the next BIG loop hole for loot.
Holy crap am I glad I refunded Guild Wars after reading that.
Got it a couple of weeks ago and they autobanned my account for living in Thailand or something. Refunded before I even got to play it.
The immersion breaks always remind me of the Borderlands 2 DLC where Tiny Tina runs the D&D campaign lol. Best DLC of all times btw
Except cool looking loot and equipment are a key element of longterm playing games.
Hence cosmetic mictrotransactions are insidious as well.
Having more fun looking stuff in the store than in the game...
What are your thoughts on eve’s system? I haven’t played it in a few years but when I was I could spend a day grinding and afford the monthly sub cost...
i agree with this video 100% iv been playing mmorpgs for 16 years or so now since wow was in vanilla back in 2005 and honestly in the last 2 or 3 years iv played mainly on nothing but private servers and this is exactly why mmos have been ruined with cash shops and with convenience its actualy pathetic how far some people will let a developer take advantage of them and take there money i hope something is done about this sooner or later im running out of hope TBH
An "extra" character slot is absolutely creating a problem and selling the solution! There's nothing cosmetic about a whole other character.
Currently I am developing a 2D / Text Based MMORPG. I started with the fact in mind that I want to avoid any kind of microtransactions at all. However I have a problem. I expect not more than 1000 players to be loyal to this game in the long term. Therefore I have to calculate costs and income with those 1000 players. Having a subscription planned for 5,00 EUR per Player / Month I can round up to 5.000,00 EUR a month. However this will be eaten up my Server/Cloud costs and probably costs for game updates by game arts designers (I can only code). Having advertisments running in the game is not working as well since Google AdSense does not have any proper integration for a game/game-engine - and 1000 users will only round up around ~ 3 USD a day or so.
So because of that dilemma I kinda have to implement a way to generate more income for the game. And microtransactions are the only way I can do that. I don't wanna add things that might impact game balance. But I thought about having players import unique assets for their character. They have to pay for that privilege tho. Those assets surely will be checked if they match the game lore and theme. It's one idea.
But I just wanted to point out - maintaining a MMORPG is expensive. I already create something for other people to enjoy - for free to some extend since my time put into the project has its worth. However I can't do everything for free and therefore I see no other way than to add micro transactions to some extend so players can support the game somehow.
Best explanation of sales and micro transactions I ever heard. Easy to under
Whats your opinion about microtransactions as present in games like LOTRO.
Where they broke up the base game & larger expansion, and reated alternative purchase mode through microtransactions, with a currency that can be earned in game? (And made the game free to play)
Creating problems to sell solutions is a huge point Black Desert players don't see. I've had countless arguments trying to explain this but it's tough to get through to people.
I played Final Fantasy XI (11) for roughly a decade on and off and it didn't have any of these problems, granted that was back before playstation 2 support and xbox 360 support were terminated, but from my understanding the game still runs to this day on pc via a subscription. I haven't had enough free time to sit on hold to reactive my account and thus can't confirm if it's still as pure as I remember it to be. If anyone knows this answer I would greatly appreciate it. The last thing I'd want to do is to make a point to clear my schedule to sit on hold for hours to reactivate my account and get my hopes up only to have my favorite game let me down like everything else has.
I have an MMo idea that could be very fun, but I'm unsure if i.can make it profitable under my ideals.
I'd want people who work on the game to feel properly compensated for their time, but I also want the access to the game to be as wide as possible.
In my experience, the only videogame (That I know of, at least) that give let you earn premium currency easy and quick enough, and as much as you want so you buy microtransactions without spending real life money... Is Warframe