Exactly! It's not just media too. A guy super into sneakers is cool, a girl super into shoes is shallow. Guy is into sports? Awesome! Girl is into fashion? Shallow. Etc, etc, etc...
Dudes who are into sneakers are NOT cool they lack personality, same with girls, there are multiple things that make a personality not just capitalist consumption
I do agree. Others tend to appreciate people who see their bodies as tools to get to a certain goal. The ideas emphasized in sports are focus, collaboration (to reach a goal), logic and quick thinking. With beauty and fashion, the body becomes a temple for individuality. As much as people say about women who like decorating themselves with makeup, accessories, and fashionable clothes, it's less about wanting to impress people and more of bringing out one's inner selves. The values highlighted here are sensuality, feeling one's body (what feels good and pleasant), and self-love. Nothing wrong with either one but society will be a better place if people did not devalue one or the other. And it won't hurt if people actually got a mix of both.
@@dcamaraman939 'Applied fashion' as in - actively experimenting with it, maybe even sketching clothes and then sewing them on one's own, is similarly enriching. But if what you meant was 'sports=playing' and 'fashion=just consuming trends/buying clothes' then you're comparing apples to oranges, and should probably check whether you aren't already applying a bias in that mode of thinking.
This is my main problem with the term "basic". It's "basic" that I like to watch romcoms and listen to Harry Styles but a man basing his whole vibe off of Martin Scorsese films and golf magazines is seen as respectable. How can enjoyment be gendered and ranked for it?
literally its like "You need to be DIFFERENT and UNIQUE and Like Films Like The Godfather" like whaaaaaaaat [disclaimer: i do know the godfather is not a scorsese film i just don't like that movie]
@@lyndsaykelly9421 That's subjective reality. You are allowed to like objectively worse content, but don't shy away from the fact that it's low quality.
I remembering pestering my brother into watching "Mean Girls" and "Legally Blonde" with me, to which he was initially resistant. But he begrudgingly complied, and actually found them to be very entertaining and well written.
A lot of men define themselves by being anti feminine, but they also don't concern themselves much with culture generally. Eg they'll love action and cars which society doesn't consider high art either
I’ve often wondered about how ‘tomboys’ were frowned upon yet somehow be more accepted than a boy with female coded pursuits. It’s not a binary but the concept of unisex itself has been mostly skewed.
I think partly media played a role in that we didn't have socially reinforced via movies & entertainment to bash a tomboy and we had no concept of non-binary but not all tomgirls were non-binary or even wanting to transition. Looking back on it I think it was simply a girl exploring her gender role later in life they did a study back in the 90s-2000s era where they found 90% of tomboys would grow out of it and those who were tomboys in those eras also seem to bare that out all the women I find who say they were tomboys in youth they naturally drifted back into more fem dressing traits but had some male traits like their hobbies or hairstyles but their physically attire do not seem to go off code but we also just have unisex shirts now too. From my experience if my family didn't like how I dressed no one told me so they let me dress male full on they were very much use to me being neourodivergant and dressing however I pleased but I was a tomboy simply because it was fun one day I wore a cap and a male who I held the door for said "thank you sir!" and I was like yeah! So I dressed full on guy now well past 30 I wear unisex clothing and the rare dress (but I did have a time I wore Japanese lolita so super girly) and have only a 10 strictly guy clothing that was too cool to pass up! I do not know if neurodivergence played a role but over the years I dressed as a dude I was constantly questioning persona wise was I male or female and me dressing male was a way to aid in that question now I understand both are inside us and there isn't a toggling type of war of male persona and female persona both persona exist and we are all good they are equals but as young girl and elder teen this was not sorted back then hence the change of outter appearance but what I do or what I have interest in which are male aligned things that still has never changed and my family nor anyone else never made me change or think it was an issue till I hit middle school and learned we had a male vs female gamers and despite the fact I played games since I was 6 I wasn't by some stupid social edict "a real gamer" which I was also smart enough to know was soical programming and ignored it and just fought the game companies to stop being stupid propagating that sexsim.
Yes unisex has always been more male leaning. Anything pink would be gendered girly but any thing cool tones would always be unisex or boyish. No warm tones are seen as unisex imo.
I remember, as a kid, watching movies like Steel Magnolias and Terms of Endearment only to be told these fell into the category of chick flick by the time I entered junior high. I soon realized that ANY movie where the characters were primarily women fell into that category. What was considered “film” rarely had more than one female character who was primarily there as the love interest. It occurred to me that most men I was growing up with would never see a movie or read a book that illustrated anything regarding a female perspective. The views of half the planet had no audience considered “legit”.
What about Nausicae, Ghost in the shell, the silence of the lambs, the hunger games, Pride and Prejudice, miss marble, Tři oříšky pro Popelku (considered the best christmas movie in my country), Johana the arc movies> The Passion of Joan of Arc as an example , alice in wonderland, the wizard of oz, Alien, Kill bill, Jeanne Dielman, 23 Commerce Quay, 1080 Brussels' , Frida, Little Women, etc.
@@majormononoke8958 excellent examples my friend those are all exceptions to the rule it's not that men don't like female lead movies they just don't want to be talked down to while watching them which unfortunately most women lead projects tend to do
Look at how one critic said Turning Red wasn't "universal" enough because it was about a girl going through puberty. Like girls haven't had to stomach the many movies of boys going through puberty...
Please do a video on how teenage culture is even more looked down upon. I remember Ally McBeal, SATC, Bridget Jones and Devil Wears Prada getting a ton of attention and serious analysis. Boybands and the Hunger Games were constantly mocked.
This makes me think about when my husband teased me lots about reading romance novels. He thought they were trashy stories for women. I asked him to read one for me and see if he felt the same afterwards. He really enjoyed it and apologized for his comments. These are societal views that are drilled into men and most don’t even try to see for themselves if that view is valid.
Manga are other great examples of this. Romances are very popular but the ones that are written by and for women are deemed inferior and rarely get adapted into anime.
yeah and men shamesly steal for their shitty creation concepts and storylines, what is dress up my doll if not a pornified version on shoujo story? i loved webtoons and manhwa too until men find them and started to make pornwha and if i could before open any tittle read and had some cool realistic women in story now it's just oversized tities and r(pe, i need to put significant effort to find a media for me.
Anyone else bothered by the leading examples of women-oriented media being Twilight, Fifty Shades, and boy bands? Honestly, we have Hand Maid's Tale, Queen's Bambit, The Crown, Euphoria, Wanda Vision, Legally Blonde, Mean Girls, Mad Max Fury Road, and many more that are high quality works. I think part of the issue here is that media marketed toward girls tends to be genuinely crappy and banks on fantasy fulfillment and social reinforcement. Especially when someone is younger, they're going to look more for media they identify with and less at the quality being presented to them.
The thing is they are trying to push a narrative here. Using the example you give will directly contradict their narrative. Everyone loves smart writing. Their is no need to put mediocrity in a pedestal.
Euphoria is AWFUL. Most entertainment marketed to teen girls is vapid and unwatchable by ANYONE with more than two brain cells. The target demographic of 99% of female entertainment is white girls and women. This demographic tends to like corny and stupid storytelling like "Twilight," "50 Shades" and whatever nonsense romcom is playing. It's not about gender, it's about quality. Say what you want about these anti-hero prestige dramas or the Marvel movies, at least they're telling compelling stories. Matta fact, I would bet cash money that most women would choose the Marvel movies over the Twilight dreck all day every day.
Totally agree... except for boy bands. Women really do love them, especially kpop boy groups. HOWEVER, women also love girl groups. Spice Girls, Little Mix, Girls Generation, 2ne1, and BlackPink. We're highly appreciative of soloists, too. Taylor Swift, Nicki Minaj, Ariana Grande, Adele, etc. Now those are what I call women-centric media. Media BY women FOR women.
Also, if you think about popular male oriented “classic” entertainment (such as The Godfather, superhero movies, Fast and Furious franchise, etc) almost all of the conflict resolution is incredibly VIOLENT. Conversely, in female centered media (Legally Blonde, Pride and Prejudice, Little Women, chick flicks, etc) the conflict resolution is centered around learning to communicate effectively or some sort of internal character growth. Using violence as conflict resolution is SOOOOO socially incompetent and detrimental to interpersonal relationships, so why on Earth is it touted as awesome or cool in popular media, while more functional examples of conflict resolution are demeaned? It’s no wonder that our society is having so many issue with things like shootings and domestic violence and crime. If you take a kid struggling with emotion regulation and who hasn’t been taught how to cope with real life, and then teach him that the coolest guys in cinema solve all their problems by BRUTALLY MURDERING THEM, something tells me that’s not going to go over well
I completely agree with you! The male media is like some hell on earth where there is only answer in death. Meanwhile the female media is like, ok we have a lot of issues but lets sort things out and move on. It's more aware, uplifting, reassuring, peaceful and understanding. Even sometimes accepting. I'm not sure why is it that guys have such a hard time to be opened about their feelings.
Violence and media are NOT linked. In fact crime rates have been decreasing since the 90s and movies are still pretty much as violent as they were before. Our society is at its peak when it comes to showcasing sex but gen z have less sex than previous generations. Blaming comics and games is just the scapegoat for simplistic analysis. Anyways we are animals and we enjoy competition and fighting. Sports are also violent in a way. We watch wrestling and even political debates are verbally violent in a way. It’s ingrained And The Godfather is about ITALIAN MAFIAS and in all the movies its shown how dangerous the mafia is. The main characters die in both films , that’s literally the point of the movies! Fast and Furious is dumb acting without substance. Is dumb sparkly action with cgi and cringey dialogues. MCU is just fantsay and super heroes.
@@kant.68 you have a fair point. However, I do want to mention that my degree is in Human Development and I spent four years studying things like this. Absolutely, media does not cause violence. There was violence long before Hollywood existed and there will be long after as well. However, that does not mean they are not linked. Social research shows that there are ABSOLUTELY correlations (not causal, just significant empirical data showing a link) between violent media and violent behavior. I have written and read dozens of articles about the two and the correlations between them. I do want to add, though, that media is not the only factor to be linked with violence. That’s just what I focused on in my comment because the video is about media. Violent behavior is also found to correlate in social research with things like poverty, education, familial dynamics, parental education levels, drug abuse, age of first sexual contact, porn usage, age of puberty onset, gender, history of abuse, and social competence as early as preschool. I just didn’t mention these things because they weren’t as relevant to the video topic. I’m sorry if my comment bothered you. Please don’t think I want to start a fight. This is just a topic I’ve studied a lot and am very passionate about
@@juliannehess8631 Alright, no you didn’t bothered me. On the contrary you just told me some new info I didn’t know. But games and movies have been used as scapegoats for decades and sometimes is tiring to hear because the source of violence in our society is multi factorial. I guess you know more than me in this matter, but I seriously doubt movies outweigh poverty, metal illnesses or bad environment in the matter. Yes we’re influenced by every bit of info that our brain perceive. But movies also talk about justice, morals, bullying, responsibility. Both positive and negative things. So I really dont see the point in mentioning that. We can see correlation between many aspects of human interactions and films for example. In both positive and negative ways. The only conclusion I could come across would be that some people are more prone to reproduce them compared to others. And those effects gonna depend on many factors, like your age or your gender or your genetic makeup for example
Another annoyance I have that is adjacent to this topic is that a lot of "chick flicks" are categorized as romantic comedies when they aren't even primarily about romance, e.g. Legally Blonde, The Princess Diaries, The Devil Wears Prada etc. Like yeah there are romances in the movies but they aren't central to the plot. It doesn't occur to men that women characters can be the main character without romance being their only story.
I remember when Warner Bros realised that one of their properties, Young Justice , had a much larger female audience than male and instead of switching gears with marketing they just pulled the plug on the show... even though it was massively popular. Eventually after nearly 7 years they released the next season because the fandom was still actively trying to revive it...
People have been discussing this phenomenon in regards to anime/manga. Shoujo romance/slice of life rarely get adaptations anymore while Shounen romance/slice of life are not only getting adaptions, but are also quite popular. Sowing that problem isn’t that it’s a romance, but the fact that’s it’s from/marketed to women. This is pattern that is seen throughout life(stats showing female dominated work earnings increase with more men joining and decreasing when the opposite happens.) not just media. Things only become legit when a man co-signs it.
Yet, some of the biggest shounen anime have been created by women. Particularly the woman who created Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha. Many women creators have had to lean into shounen just to be respected as manga artists.
It's the same with literature - men writing about family and relationships are serious authors exploring the human condition. Women writing about family and relationships are chicklit authors. It's shallow and biased and frankly embarrassing.
@@ockhamsblazer shit you should care about :) it's a podcast and a newsletter. They also have a popculture podcast called "culture vulture". You should check em out!
Honestly I've just learned to tune out the noise of people criticizing your interests for the hell of it. They can talk but it's not going to affect how I feel about things.
I still get snide comments even from my own husband in all of my feminine interests especially makeup, TV and movies. But mention Football, video games and explosions and they defend it with such conviction that this is the most important and superior content.
I enjoy both entertainment geared towards men and women as long as it’s well written. Twilight was not a well written story and Bella was wooden and boring. Also I disagree that all female led stories aren’t loved and well received. Mean Girls and Legally Blonde are loved to this day and were well received because it was well written.
Exactly. Bella Swan has never been my idea of an SFF heroine worth rooting for. Tamora Pierce was writing much smarter, more active, and more interesting heroines as far back as the 1980s, from "The Song of the Lioness" series to the "Protector of the Small" quartet. Yet for reasons I shall never understand, these much better works never caught pop-culture fire the way that "Twilight" did. As much as the presumed divide between "male entertainment" and "female entertainment" bothers me -- that graphic re: HBO Max vs. Warner Bros. Discovery INFURIATED me -- I'm as troubled when audiences reject good stories in favor of weaker ones, both male and female led. I haven't forgotten that the smart, beautiful, and moving animated film "Kubo and the Two Strings" sank like the proverbial stone at the box office while audiences were packing theaters to see "Suicide Squad."
I don’t think the MCU is considered “high culture.” The whole Scorsese and Tarantino thing makes it clear that they’re not considered high art or cinema. Lots of Oscar bait films are romance or drama, genres largely popular with women.
So true. It has often been clear blockbuster high budget films are mid brow art at best. It is funny to note that Tarantino is so loved by many critics when most of his work is rip of off of real low brow cult and exploitation films.
I think that for a lot of men they see being dismissive of women, our interests, and creations as apart of male culture. Its almost like a right of passage for many of them. Not only can they be ugly to women about it but they also dont see how it hurts/limits them. From what I see most women seem to consume the media they find interesting regardless of who's in it, who made it, and who it was marketed towards. Whereas a lot of men will adhere to a very narrow mold of what they feel like men should like, watch, and listen too, and will throw in stereotypes to try and justify why they don't like women led/created media. I can't imagine letting my gender dictate what movies, shows, and music I'm allowed to be interested in. Conditioning is real but at some point it becomes self inflicted. I had an ex who would dismiss some of the sci fi/fantasy/dystopian books I suggested to him solely because they had been written by female authors. I told him he's the reason female authors often use their initials instead of the full names. To dedicate yourself to being that one dimensional is truly sad and pathetic. Ugh, Good riddance.
I remember playing To Wong Fu while my husband was doing some work on his laptop. It was in my rental rotation as a kid going to Blockbuster. He’d never seen it before and gradually put his work away and got really invested in the story. We were both surprised how much he enjoyed it. Was a small reminder of how I picked a good one.
Widespread non-comedy stuff about women are a relatively recent phenomenon in American media. Comedy is widely considered low culture and so is melodrama regardless of which gender is the subject. There’s the answer. A real topic of discussion is how bad media targeted at women is treated vs bad media targeted at men is treated ( something like Gossip Girl vs Fast and the Furious)
Fast and the furious is a trashy franchise that does alot of money in the box office and Gossip Girl isn't as well known nor can make that much money by comparison. If you can make a huge amount of money then it's gonna end up getting more valued in general.
As a teenage boy, these type of films / TV shows resonated with me much more than any of the action/guns/cars stuff that most other boys my age used to like. But also, being a closeted gay kid, I had to watch them secretly and pretend to like most of that other "manly" stuff to fit in :')
I remember when there were films in the cinema with strong female leads such as Erin Brokovich the men in my life refused to watch the film with me. Yet that film was an environmental mystery. Even films which appealed to both men & women originally become only for women because then men won't like anything a woman likes.
Historically, women were always the driving force of big movies prior to the 1970s. Hollywood viewed women to be the key audience in charge of family outings and made movies that were ostensibly family friendly but realistically with women in mind. Most of the industry's most prestigious movies for each decade had either a prominent mother figure or a religious angle. 1930s the two big movies were Gone with the Wind (epic romance) and Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs (animated fairytale). In the 1940s, a pair of melodramas (the topical male centred The Best Years of our Lives and the female centred western Duel in the Sun) In the 1950s, a pair of religious epics (The Ten Commandments and Ben-Hur ). In the 1960s, Hollywood was changing. While the two biggest movies of the decade were a musical (Sound of Music) and an epic melodrama (Doctor Zhivago), the James Bond movies heralded the future emphasis on action/adventure movies targeting young males. Essentially by the mid 1960s the 10 highest grossing movies of all time unadjusted for inflation at that point featured many grand love stories dealing with romantic and/or religious love, often revolved around a strong female protagonist set in times during social or political upheaval. Another factor was that the "Roadshow Musicals" during the 1950s-1960s were for the most part basically grand love stories, (yes the 2 Dickens based musicals Scrooge & Oliver! were the exeptions on that part.) When the Hays Code fell apart in 1968, movies were allowed to be more graphic therefore more male appealing.
This is why I love Japanese media. They have a lot more series and films directed towards women. This is also why I’m skeptical of “We should be making films for everyone!” Because usually they mean just for white men since they are considered the default in our society.
... yeah I don't think you should really hold up anything Japan or Japanese media for its treatment of women. In a poll what is considered consent some I think 20 or 30% of the answers included. She gets drunk. Sexual harassment is so normalized it's just a part of daily life getting groped in full view of everyone around you while they ignore it is pretty normal. Then there is the massive underreporting of rape since it's such a reserved culture. Added to the public ridicule the victims receive. And you'd think well at least when you get them to investigate the rape you're good... Nope, it's so bad that victims have a nickname for the rape investigation they call it the second rape. You have to go back to the crime scene and in front of a group of policemen and put on a show, you have to reenact the rape with a full-sized man doll. And I wish that was the worse, but of course, it's not, how they handle DV is worse, because they don't, not until 2001 was it considered a crime or need of support, it's a private matter.
Are you aware Shonen manga and action anime are the most popular genres in japanimedia right? You’re complaining about a very stupid matter. Fashion is literally dominated and “coded” according to female’s taste and trends. Quite literally. Same for pop music or even literature . Why? Women make up a huge chunks of the buyers. A big part of creator are also women. So what if men dominate sports or entertainment? Y’all are getting pissed because they sold you the stupid notion that “we’re 50% of society “ narrative. Games and comics and geek stuff are male dominated and is feminism the one trying to force everyone and put women in spaces that naturally weren’t marketed nor created for/by them. Dudes were into comics, filmmaking and games long before women were interested and came over. Why is so difficult to accept this? And why can’t men dictate an aspect of our culture if women dictate many others? Remember that all those “white old men” are artists but also business men. They are making products to everyone all the time, that’s literally their job: to entertain.
Ughh I have a guy friend who insists Romy and Michele is a bad movie despite having never seen it, but can't take the hint when no one wants to watch Tucker and Dale vs Evil. On one hand I'm like "sure, I get it you want to watch a movie you like" and on the other hand I'm like "can you not see you'r being a huge hater for literally no reason other than internalized misogyny."
to be fair, Tucker and Dale vs Evil is bloody brilliant (pun intended) and to say that no one wants to watch it is an exaggeration as well as ironically the same sort of judgement as the one that your guy friend is making towards Romy and Michele. I'm saying that as a woman btw. we are not all monolithic and sometimes movies are just bad, regardless of intended audience. Personally, I will watch and rewatch and rewatch again Legaly Blond, Devil wore Prada, Ms Pettigrew lives for a day and league of their own over and over, but you couldn't pay me enough to finish any of the twilight movies or 50 shades. But that's just me.
I think you've nailed it. Would you feel comfortable talking about the marginalised images and a distorted narrative that films have created over the First nations. Maybe research with people from these communities. You have an influence where you could start in helping giving a voice to your ingenious populace. I'm from New Zealand and I feel that we are far from correcting all of our history's past but I don't believe we are continuing to improve communities so that people isolated from a Māori community can help by giving them the skills they need. At the moment where political decisions played out have affected many vulnerable communities. Our own government is trying to right the wrongs of decades of neglect from consecutive governments. In America there doesn't even seem to be even registered by the more liberal, progressive communities. It would be amazing to see that people, women like yourself help put a light on a highly neglected and distorted narrative.
I was debating with this guy about the She-Hulk series one time. He told me that Marvel has too many female characters and comic books and movies need to be a male thing. He said there aren't male Barbies (which there are lol), so Marvel should be a man thing. I already knew that most of the criticism She-Hulk didn't stimmed from butt hurt men who didn't even watch the show yet. But that comment was just mind-blowing. He literally felt it was insulting to share a space of pop culture with women. edit: Also, most of these men didn't like that She-Hulk appeared stronger than Bruce in the trailer. The MCU is a place where a 15 y/o boy can get the powers of an insect, but they draw the line when a woman is stronger than a man.
I don't know if you're deliberately misrepresenting his argument to make him sound more sexist than he is. The argument that I've heard that best describes his idea is, "Superheroes are generally aimed at the male demographic and therefore shouldn't have their male characters belittled and replaced by female characters". This is actually something that is currently happening. Barbies are generally consumed by young girls/women. Imagine if Ken became bigger than Barbie and belittled her the entire time they were on screen.
@@thisguy7976 No, I'm not misrepresenting HIS argument. That guy was actually sexist. I know a lot of people had a problem with the belittling, I didn't like that either. But let's be honest, they're cousins, don't you have a relationship like that with your cousins or siblings? Anyways, everything I typed is basically what he said.
@@GabesEdtiz I'll admit I didn't give She-Hulk the time of the day either. But, I was excited for it initially. And I saw a lot of clearly sexist arguments in the comments. They explained that Jennifer gained control of her powers instantly because of something in her genes. Considering we all have our own genetic makeup that makes us react differently to things, that's understandable. Yes, in general men are physically stronger than women. But, there are still SOME women that are stronger than SOME men. A female bodybuilder can lift more than Joe down the street. "It's not sexist, it's just science." And like I said before, why would facts matter in a place like the MCU?
I feel like you could have mentioned the obvious difference between Boy Meets World and Girl Meets World. This thought even reflects not to the watching audience but also to the production process. Boy Meets World is seen so much more relatable, even to the female audience yet the way Girl Meets World was written, it was as if the writers had no idea what struggles girls go through when they are growing up and the world is just like a joke, relatability is really low. Makes me sad as a woman.
This goes for video games as well. Once a guy asked me what games I played. I told him Stardew Valley, Mario, Pokemon, etc. He told me, well then you're not a real gamer. Apparently those games are "girly" and "soft". And because I didn't play COD or Overwatch, typical "male" games, I wasn't a "real gamer" 🙄
honestly? he was just being a dick just to be a dick and because he probably feels insecure, poor baby. especially since Mario in particular is THE old school classic of video games, and some of the earliest classic video games were chose your own adventure style. and in any case, you can't win with those types, even if you do like typical "male" games, they will still find a way to demean you in some way. so no point in engaging with those types at all.
As a Queer person, I’ve always gravitated towards ‘female media’ because I never felt judged and there was some form of relatability. Not to say I haven’t made poor judgements about TV Shows and Movies.
This takes me back to my teen years as a pop punk/emo rock fan and the comments i received for liking certain bands such as MCR, Fall Out Boy, Panic at the Disco, HIM etc. These genres were slandered as "girl" music, particularly anything influenced by metal but with lyrics centered around romance. I remember hate pages dedicated to calling those bands 'gay' just because a large number of their audience were teen girls, not because they personally disliked the music; they were just triggered by the mass following from fangirls. Twilight and 50 shades of grey were ripped to shreads online but the same energy can't be found in movies such as Transformers or any Marvel film which i find boring, uninspired nonsense. Society just loves shitting on women and what they enjoy.
That's sad cause I'm a huge pop punk/emo fan and the fanbase is a huge sausage fest now, I can't find any chicks who appreciate the same music as me, they all stick to country and pop now, and yeah I blame the male fanbase as rare as I do that
That's bs people hold women on a pedestal for what they like It's men who get called terrible things for liking geek stuff and were bullied for it constantly.
What is sad, men will watch or listen to Fangirl media. Look at the Beatles, the Boomer generation regardless of gender loves those songs. Kim Possible is a woman superhero who boys and girls watched and still watches to this day. RomComs regardless of what people think are watched and enjoyed by all genders. My husband loves RomComs and I only like When Harry Met Sally. So this idea needs to change more than anything. Men should be allowed to enjoy FanGirl media.
Chris Stuckmann, hands down, the best movie critic on TH-cam. Action thriller, rom com, horror whatever. That guys observations, points and love for the craft❤️
Nah its more like this in reality Men: want women to like What they like. Women: Thats lame I have no interest. Things men like goes Mainstream Women: Men r sexist and Didnt let us like what they Like.
That's why I enjoy watching TH-cam commentaries where they watch Rom-Coms and teen movies because they usually end up liking the movie. Dylan is in trouble, BillyBinges, etc.
I'm not forcing what I enjoy watching onto anyone. I will enjoy my shit, and I will let others enjoy their shit. “Male” media or “female” media-IDGAF. If I like it, I like it no matter what camp it's from. Y'all do y'all.
I submit to you that Jane Austen adaptations are among the best films ever made. If you refuse to enjoy a story that is about relationships, money, and embarrassing neighbors, I don't think I'll trust your taste in film.
depends on adaptation. some of them (recent "Persuasion" cough) are absolute stinkers. others are genuinely brilliant. ( "Emma" "Clueless" "Pride and prejudice" AND "Bride and Prejudice" for instance)
I think part of the negative portrayal of fangirls is that our culture decenters, and even vilifies, female desire. Female fans like what they like, and female-driven fandom is not about male desire or pursuit, and that's treated as gross, dumb, and even predatory. Women are expected to engage with media through the gaze of the male protagonist, male director, and/or male viewer/listener, and to find attractive what men approve of women finding attractive. Female-initiated interest and desire is treating as distasteful or threatening.
the only reason i've written off 50 shades of grey and twilight is they both glorified and romanticized abusive relationships. Doesn't matter that so many women love them.
Bit of a nitpick, but I have to take issue with the video still image still a little; does anyone really consider the MCU high culture? When Scorsese's out there saying it's barely even cinema, I don't think it's the best example of the "boy entertainment = art, girl entertainment = trash" dynamic.
This is starting to be an issue in anime. Shonen has completely taken over the mainstream anime space so that shoujo works, even ones that sell well, are starting to struggle getting adaptations. I’ve been trying to watch more shoujo as I’ve realized how skewed my anime viewing has been. Colleen’s Manga Recs is a really good channel that discusses this.
Japanese anime really brings what lacks in American industry, FEMALE SUPERHERO. If women took over magical girls would replace the avengers. That would be Epic.
@@Turquerina Not OP but I guess some classic shojo would be Kaichou wa Maid Sama or Ouran host club. It's been a long time since I've watched shojo but I used to watch tons. I used to like Magical girl Lyrical Nanoha, Sailor Moon and Shugo Chara when I was very little. And today I just finished Skip Beat but the anime doesn't really end so I read the whole manga. I think more recent good shojo would be tonari no kaibutsu kun, shirayuki hime and kamisama hajimemashita. I read somewhere that the shojo genre is dying.
I'll be honest. I'm a woman and I HATE rom-coms. I find them boring at best, and toxic/dangerous at worse. I also hate reality shows with a passion. I also hate sports. amongst
Homophobes???? Harry isn’t even gay wtf. Plus any men wearing a dress unironically deserves to be mocked on im sorry. A dress is made having the female body shape in mind, is literally composed to fit a gynoid body type
I can definitely relate to the music part of this. Like oh my gosh I don't even know where to start on how being a fan of metal music while also being a girl is so agonizing. I don't even call myself a metal head anymore because of my experiences. It's a long story 😅
@@mukta4689 While this video is on how media for female audiences is looked down on, us women who happen to like things with a large male fanbase still get criticized, the metal community being one of those spaces. Guys will think you like metal music to get attention, there's a lot of mansplaining, and if they do manage to get that women do genuinely like metal music, then they act like you're a rare species who needs to be romantically pursued. Mention one other interest that isn't metal (especially if you dare to say you like some pop music), then they find that kind of repulsive. I've also seen comments where men criticize metal bands for going soft when the members call out men for harassing and injuring women in mosh pits, saying that such actions are to be expected at a metal concert. I've seen some people say some of the nicest people they know are metalheads, but I'm starting to wonder if that's mostly other men saying that because I haven't been as lucky to say the same. I still enjoy metal music, but no longer am I part of the community. I'm glad I eventually learned to embrace my variety of interests (feminine ones included) rather than feel ashamed of them, and I've found people outside of the community who don't shun me for that.
@Ks No they don't they can like whatever they like, the thing is chicks got to stop letting people's words effect them, dudes been made fun of For everything by women & men and they still kept liking it, giving Up what you like because people Mock is a weak, sad thing to do.
@@tfvk7632 that's a lie, guys are very accepting of women into their spaces I think people stereotype men as the enemy and as bad Like no man ever has been accepting of women liking things Most guys like me are dying for women to like the things we do.
@Ks People Mocking you're likes Happens, but it happens to everyone Not just women, That's bs most Things women like are seen as high value it's just chick flicks that are just seen as bad, music made by women and female lead shows Like buffy are well liked by many People this whole low culture, high Culture thing is just something To divide the genders over something stupid there's many Things from the female community that's loved by people, music, films And shows I think the problem is the overall overemphasizing on gender that makes dudes loose interest.
I was a big fan of MCR when I was 13 and I was accused of only liking them because I found Gerard Way attractive 😕Every band I liked I was accused of only liking because I found the band members attractive, not because I genuinely enjoyed their music. What's worse is that I was 13 and didn't give much thought to their appearance. Oh, also, I think another effect of this is the fact Netflix - and other streaming companies - are more likely to cancel female-led TV shows that include WLW as the MC. First Kill had barely any marketing but high numbers on Netflix, surpassing Heartstopper, and they cancelled it after the first season. Other shows like this are Trinkets, Gentleman Jack, and likely more. They don't market stories with LGBTQ+, poc and/or female leads the same way they do cishet male stories.
I’ve enjoyed Spirit: Riding Free and felt it was woefully undervalued as a cartoon that had great character writing, immensely intense action and real tear jerking moments. Seriously, Episode 13 broke me. On the Anime front, a lot of Cute Girls Doing Cute things like Show By Rock and D4DJ were very heartfelt if a bit over the top with some of their ideas. I super recommend them to anybody in need of something to take the edge off. I think girly media gets written off on two fronts. One is out of classic misogyny where one will go “Blech” at something wearing its femininity on its sleeve. Another is out of disgust for what they feel is misogynstic, thinking that they are stereotyping all girls as just cute and borderline infantile. Another… is basic taste as one might just prefer something else with a better presentation.
Gone Girl is pretty intense with a lot of violence. It's not what most people would call a chicken flick (the term is often used for shows that seem to show women in stereotypical or even caricaturish roles such as shopping, talking on the phone, getting their hair styled xD.) Gone Girl is about a female psychopath playing a rather twisted 'game' with her significant other (who is also, at least in the book, also a psychopath or has traits of psychopathy.) It's a dark psychological thriller with multiple characters that are extremely screwed up. The type of cat and mouse game shows and books that have plot twists, red herrings, sometimes murder or revenge as principle themes. Definitely not a classic 'chick flick.'
@@kpaxian6044 i think its a chick flick technically cuz its a movie aimed at everyone but mostly women because most of its fans r women; its not a bad thing to be tbh its just a discriptor
This reminds me of when the animated show Young Justice was cancelled, because its decently sized viewer base was tween girls, which disappointed the executives who wanted to use the show to sell toys to little boys 🙃
As someone who stans 9 or 12 artists, all female, 3 k-pop groups rest English speakers. I relate to this so much. I'm not a stalker I just cut out their pictures and collect their albums. As a nerodivergent girl, it helps me understand the world and issues like mysogony in the industry. I want to go into the music industry in a few years, and I think everyone needs to respect them. Like there are so many portrayals of fan girls with mysogoistic undertones, once my younger brother watched on episode and it had so much casual internalized sexism, it was in a children's TV and it was written by a woman. Can't us normal ones breath?
Hey you two. I think it could be really interesting to decode the "Bro culture", that hugely existed in the 00's and 2010's. Furthermore, you put out so much content, I hope you can follow along on a personal level - don't overstress yourselves to adhere to TH-cam's insane posting schedule. Better to have deep quality content. Don't get yourselves stressed by posting so often. Much love from a subscriber who loves your deep content.
"Don't bore me, don't confuse me and don't insult my intelligent". This is my sentiment to watching movies and music. This whole guy or girl entertainment is really a belittlement to everyone, when all people want to watch is a really good show, listen to really good music, read a really good comic book (to me that's literature printed like newspaper) or play a really good video game. All of these gender oriented notions is basically a nothing burger at this point. It a Chick Flick, It's a ganster movie, what are we suppose to call it. This here is really getting out of hand and let's call it was it is.... A WASTE OF TIME. There is no such thing as high or low culture.... It is just culture. Therefore to some extent... this whole gender narrative just a big dumpster that adds little to no-one live. I don't care if a big blockbuster explosion movie is made by a woman or a romantic comedy is made a man. As long the movie, music or anything culture oriented is good. Like I said in the early "Don't bore me, don't confuse, don't insult my intelligence".
you should take under consideration however that promoting is a huge part in the process of the launch of a movie. In the creative process os something of large scale there will always be a marketing team that will decide in wich direction to go and wich audience to appeal. It would be great to like what you want and be presented with every genre and kind of movie, but at the end of the day labels and movie houses are seeking after money. An example of this is why male targeted movies like Avengers series or Fast and furious are always present at movie theaters, while at the same time romcoms are excluded. In music the same discourse persist
@@mylastnameissugarcube7683 There's a problem with your comment. Yes, I agree with you when studios and production companies have to rely on the basis of money. However look at this in a perspective, people go to the movies to enjoy themselves. Noone's looking at which production studio is producing the movie, or what genre of the movies is replying to. I personally don't care about what genre or representation of the movie is appealing to. I go to watch movies to enjoy myself, and the goes with music, video games or any other popular demands of pop culture. Let me tell you this, say you want to buy a phone.... do you buy that phone because of the brand of quality or do you buy that phone because of what is useful towards your everyday use, or both whatever the case... That being said, why is it an issue about genre representation if you have critical thinking whether the movie is good or not, or what music suits your taste. As long as it doesn't belittles its audience, there should be no problem.
@@mylastnameissugarcube7683They are one of those “I don’t see color” when it comes to sexism. You can’t argue with those. They think they’re above the programing and that sexism isn’t a problem.
This reminds me of the rise and fall of "Women Pictures" in the 1930s by hollywood, when executives realized that women have a lot of buying power when it comes to deciding which movies they take their families to (Women, Gone with the Wind, etc (it's been a minute since I was in film school so I don't quite remember)), many of which were major commercial and financial successes. It seems like Hollywood remembers and then forgets that women are an extremely lucrative audience every decade or so, and it's very frustrating!
You sound like the guy trying to be a good guy for women in a false way. The books and movies sucked. It’s literally universally disliked. Why do you think both critics and normal people are in agreement and thus the movies have very low scores on IMDb rotten tomatoes etc
My BF brought to light that desirability of behind the scenes roles plays a part, like lifting heavy equipment in place; it's not something you'd necessarily want to be known for careerwise.
Growing up I loved horror and action movies AND I also really loved romance. I never rolled my eyes or scoffed at any particular genre, yet for men it's like second nature to scoff at entire genres that are *especially* loved by women. It's deeply insulting and comes from such a blatant place of arrogance and a feeling of superiority. Glad to see videos like this exposing male hypocrisy because their attitude has been so deeply normalized. This subject matters even more to me now as a mother of boys. Also I have to mention, the "fangirl* stigma really affected me too. I felt like the "girly" things I loved had to be loved almost secretly. While my hypermasculine father gets to jump up off the couch and shout like a psycho when his football team scores a point.
I say the world needs more hate. I know this sounds horribly wrong, but in a fair world, we'd dedicate as much hate towards Michael Bay movies as we did towards "Twilight".
I think it's considered worse than say, Transformers, which is basically the male equivalent of the time. But that would be wrong. They are both pretty terrible u less you have rifftrax for them. Then they're both a blast!
Not sure I really agree on the High Fidelity take. Those guys were music snobs and didn't distinguish based on gender but based on what they considered acceptable music.
But their teen audience grew with them and loved them through their evolution. My mom was a teen then, she was still into Let it Be and the white album.
It's very true. Men have degraded me online for enjoying doll collecting, but when I see their social medias, it's full of video games and comic book information. On the flip side, I think this misogynistic approach to things have rubbed off on some women, causing men to be afraid to dive into female driven content. One male friend of mine loved My Little Pony and The Powerpuff Girls. A girl that he liked found out about it and just started calling him a wuss, started shaming him for having girl centered interests, and then said she'd never date him because she wants someone masculine. A girl on the Fred and Angie Morning Radio show said the same thing about a guy who worked part time as a Christmas Elf. When I was in Elementary school, and this was back in 1999-2000, a boy in my 5th grade class picked up a Barbie book to read for story time and none of the girls in the class would let him live it down. There was an episode of iCarly where she wouldn't even date a dude because he was collecting something equivalent to Beanie Babies. There are still many women out here who do think that certain entertainment is ALSO just for the girls, and so can't be surprised when female driven entertainment can't get the box office numbers they want it to nor the respect. We need to break down the gender divide and allow people to open their minds and explore what they like. It doesn't say anything about sexuality or gender identity. People just like what they like. When we get to the point where being like a teenage girl isn't any more of a problem than being like a teenage boy, and that a boy being into what teen girls like is not bad, we can finally see progress.
Your mindset is truly the most enlightened, I'm a hardcore metalhead but I also think Taylor swift is maybe the best solo pop artists of all time, if not top 3, idgaf what people have to say about it I'm unapologetic
Next time someone says anything mean to you about your doll collection tag me in it I'll deal with them! also Powerpuff Girls is life that bitch be crazy !
Its really bad in the rock and metal fandom. Gatekeeping in general but it seems as soon as a female audience likes a band they are not legitimate anymore...even though women buy tickets, and albums, and merch, and consume content. And if you look at music history, female fans have really driven the genre. In college I interned at an entertainment group that owned several rock stations, one of the station's morning shows featured a game where the men would guess if breasts were real or fake from submitted photos. I made a comment that while I liked the music they played over the other stations, I was turned off by antics like that and had they considered if they were turning away female listeners...I was told they had a male target audience. They did not even consider the women who listened to the main alternative/hard rock station in the area (and there were a lot)!
This was very enlightening. I’m rather disgusted that a tv show’s production was finished and a studio won’t release it because the feel it won’t make money. I can not think of a movie, or show that was made in the last 3 years that I’ll rewatch. This includes titles that are critically acclaimed as of now
I honestly have been disappointed in most women-focused superhero movies.I have this theory that I call “the pink power-ranger problem”. Basically, businesses predict female superheroes can’t be stand alone characters (you can’t sell just the pink power-ranger, you have to group her in with the boys). Therefore, when there is a female focused superhero, less creativity, care, and funds go into their production. It’s sad and I feel a little gas lit when people tell me I have to like it. Give me the legally blonde of the MCU!!!! (Well written, good character development, life lesson for the viewer)
Speaking of which, haven't you ever notice that most boy bands and male rock bands usually have a big female following. But most girls groups and female rock bands usually don't have a big male following, and usually have a big female following. Also I tend to know that most young girls make a big deal out of their male celebrity crush, like you see them with dozens of pictures of the favorite artist in the room and they'll usually talk about it. Like you heard about how artists like Justin Timberlake or Gerard Way have a lot fangirls who are constantly screaming for them. However, I tend to notice that it isn't the same the other way around. You usually never hear about young boys being super crazy for their favorite female artist. They don't have dozens of pictures of them in their room nor do they talk about it. Plus you almost never hear about big female artists having a lot of fanboys screaming for them. Like I don't think Christina Aguilera or Hayley Williams had to deal with a lot of fanboys fighting for their attention. Maybe there are some young boys out there who do you have big celebrity crushes on a female artist, but maybe they just don't get as much attention as young girls do. I wonder it's like that.
I never was a fan girl or a fan boy and I have to confess that I love videogames for example, but I am scared of the aggressiveness of most gamer boys, so I tend to shut my hobbies :( I never understand the fan girl mania but to be honest, they are more open if you don't attack their tastes, girls tend to share, so definitely is more fun being with fan girls even if I don't get it.
I don’t treat Twilight, 50 Shades, and 365 days as art, not for their genre, but for how problematic they are. If they kept the same themes, but highlighted healthier relationships, I can see more people liking them. I hate how they are about domestic violence, but masked ad erotica. I love movie commentary channels like Billy Binges, Dylan in Trouble Movies in Death, Movie Budz, etc. because they don’t judge by female centered or male centered. They just want to react and analyze movies. They judge it by the story, dialogue, acting, etc. This proves that men do like movies about women by women too. They are out there. But I do get the female media is looked down upon just because it is about women which is sickening. Women are people too and deal with similar experiences as men (dating, school life, work). But they do share different experiences too due to sexism and power dynamics.
I think it's still a contentious issue because many of us are still only just now---- in the last 15- 20 years---- waking up to all of the many injustices and disparities in the world after literally thousands of years of living with them as a norm. Sure, throughout history, there are moments of trying to close these various gaps, but with the advent of tv, and then of course more widely the internet and social media, for the first time in our civilization's history do we have access to so much information so that we can see, explore, question and (God willing) finally understand. An all of this only in the last 80 years!!! As a result, people who want to close these gaps are finding other like minded people and are therefore finding resolve to try change it for good. But proper change takes time and investment, and therefore patience. And it's of course frustrating as hell when there are those who try to undermine this change, and insist on things like inferiority and other such bull sh*t excuses, but this change is indeed happening and (I believe) cant be stopped. I think things will for sure change, be we are only now in the middle of the long game 😁
Ok, there are many apt observations here, but I have one issue (I don't know, maybe it's US vs Europe thing): things like the MCU are not really considered to be high culture, are they? They are the epitome of pop culture and you say it yourselves when you say that millions queue up to see those movies. They're only treated with all seriousness by people who have made them their whole identity (and yeah, those people also get mocked for it as geeks and neckbeards and whatnot). High culture is typically defined as something not very easily accessible, something where you need to focus to get it and it might be a bit challenging (dare I say: boring? ;-) ) at first before you learn to appreciate it (like French New Wave cinema or atonal music). Both Mean Girls and MCU are very much well-made low/pop culture, ie. designed for mass appeal. And yeah, it's true that female-targeted or female-centred media tend to be brushed off by the "popular consensus", but it doesn't change the fact that ultimately they can still be very successful and often get more appreciation over time (like the Beatles who are now legendary). Again, I get a strong sense that the approach presented in the clip could be a US vs Europe thing.
I'm not sure I agree with this one. You seem to equate what's high profile with what is respected. I don't think superhero movies or action movies are any more respected than chick flicks. No-one calling for Dwayne Johnson to be given an Oscar, and male comedy and action movie stars like Will Smith or Jim Carrey had to switch to more 'serious' roles before their accolades came. Hell, even in your video, you legitimize Harry Styles by pointing out that he's appeared in 'interesting arthouse movies' (not frivolous chick-flicks, right?). It's fine to acknowledge that certain movies are meant as light entertainment, whereas others are genuinely attempting to say something serious (and sure, occasionally there may be some crossover). Nobody thinks that Michael Bay movies are attempting a serious critique of the human condition any more than fun romantic comedies are. I love 10 Things I Hate About You, but I'm not complaining that it doesn't appear on 100 Greatest Film lists. American Pie and The Breakfast Club might both be about teenagers, but that doesn't mean they're considered of equal merit artistically. And that doesn't mean that the fun movies are of no value. But it seems like you're saying that there are movies out there that would be recognised as cinematic masterpieces alongside the Godfather if only they weren't about women. There are plenty of more serious movies (not enough) that centre female characters or discuss romance that are revered. The work of Greta Gerwig or Sofia Coppola, or serious romantic movies like the work of Wong Kar-Wai or films like Blue Valentine or A Star is Born are all well-respected. Obviously there need to be far more diverse voices behind the lens in cinema, and I hope that more women get the chance to direct, but I don't think that means that the likes of Twilight and 50 Shades are some sort of amazing high art that's just been undervalued because it's aimed at women. Plenty of stuff is popular but critically panned. Plenty of stuff is made to be fun and watched again and again when you want a bit of escapism.
Okay, I agree with almost everything you guys said. But what about the fact that female fandom also promotes legitimate and dangerous trash like the twilight, after and 50 shades books and movies?
its a vicious cycle honestly, many women grow up internalizing toxic shit as romance and pursue them in popular culture, which sustains it popularity, making sure that more girls see it and thus deepen the internalization, and so on and so forth recently it seems to be moving away from this a little, but its still really prevalant in so many things, especially fanfic and shit
@@suburbantimewaster9620 agreed, but just because male fandom has problematic issues, too, should not mean that we should discount similar problems in the female fandom.
@@raveenasavadi655 You’re right. I’ve known people who criticize the problematic issues of female media while blind to the problematic issues of male media but, as my mom says, two wrongs don’t make a right.
I'm a woman. I think some of the female led/centric films and tv series need more positive supporting and lead male characters. Especially some of the more recent ones. Don't just make the men goofy, eye candy, or the villains.
@@Shearedfield In some yes, but we've had many great female leads and supporting characters in male centric/lead films. Éowyn in the Lord of the Rings, Princess Leia in the Star Wars OT, Black Widow in the MCU. They had character growth and were integral to the plot. They were far more than eye candy.
I agree whole heartedly. I see this in a lot of content catered to children. If there's a male lead, he's usually dumb or a simp of some kind, some weird "nice guy".
What about Nausicae, Ghost in the shell, the silence of the lambs, the hunger games, Pride and Prejudice, miss marble, Tři oříšky pro Popelku (considered the best christmas movie in my country), Johana the arc movies> The Passion of Joan of Arc as an example , alice in wonderland, the wizard of oz, Alien, Kill bill, Jeanne Dielman, 23 Commerce Quay, 1080 Brussels' , Frida, Little Women, etc. Hunger games being a wildly popular and beloved by men and women, etc. As is the Wizard of oz. All these movies are either considered classics or great mainstream movies. The video is definitly right, but i think many people just dont realize that there many great female lead movies with all kind of genres and also many different perspective.
The problem with some of the classic novies for women is that they don't show us as well-rounded people with interests and drive. Bridget Jones is funny but her career always plays second fiddle to her guy troubles. We need more content like Ms Marvel or the Old Guard, where we can wstch women being unapoligetic about being their own brand of badass and having good relationships with friends and families. Or Andor is trying tp do it better, with Vel and Cinta being (I believe) Star Wars' first gay couple and still being focussed on saving the world.
Twilight really is garbage. And I love movies TV shows that cater to female and queer audiences. Hence why I'm subscribed to this channel. Twilight's only saving grace for me is that it occasionally had eye candy. And, with that, is still barely palatable. But good one's like mean girls and legally blonde, etc. I'm all in for that movie marathon any day.
I don't think there should be more female writers just for equality's sake, there should be more female writers only if they are good. Just like how I wouldn't want to get a job only because I have connections or "daddy" got it for me, I don't want women to get things handed to them just because of their gender. Female writers should get jobs because they earned it and deserve it and so many do even if it takes time, like Jennifer's Body. And there shouldn't be more female lead movies and shows if it's just a ripoff from male ones like Supergirl or Batgirl. The use of "girl" also makes the heroin sound childish, inexperienced and unoriginal. Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are original, use better and more appropriate names and also have higher ratings because people go and watch it knowing they can't compare it to the male equivalent. There is also something to be said that sometimes men are able to write good female characters like in Ripley in Alien or many of the girls in Euphoria. Sometimes male action films and shows flop. The main issue is quality. When you have complex characters, an interesting plot and a good cast, it doesn't matter if it's male/female lead or male/female directed or written, people will like it because the content is worth it. You shouldn't be calling for more female writers and characters, you should be calling for a higher standard of female (and male) writers and characters. For example, Promising Young Woman took a chance by taking a usually male dominated field (female revenge films) to do a film about, and managed to make all the male ones, as enjoyable as some are, look silly and unrealistic by doing it with a very female point of view and with very feminine cinematography and with a good cast. It wasn't copying male films, like superheroes do, it was wholly original and well made. Mrs. Maisel for example sounds very boring for male viewers, but the premise of the series and lines and standup are so funny and good, many men watch it. Quality is key and that comes due to merit, we should push for that more.
There's a show that I really love that no one seems to talk about and that's Stargirl. CW tried so super hard with Batwoman targeted for women with its disastrous first trailer. Stargirl just feels like if it's targeted for everyone and the show has good female characters.
Geek culture while it has its problems when it comes to women is not high culture or high art. It has been understood for years high art when it comes to film is art house films while everything at best is mid to low brow art. Than you have the movies that prove the test of time and these no matter if they high art or low are viewed as classics like Same time next year or The Women.
And all of the examples they use for Geeks are characters making fun of them. You can't say people take them serious and then show characters where their geekiness is the punchline.
Personally, I think even the “High Culture” vs. “Low Culture” distinction itself reflects an elitist mindset (though not always an ill-intentioned one). Those terms are completely nebulous and can change dramatically depending on time, place, and the overall zeitgeist. The Take did a video a few years ago (Black Panther: Too Popular for the Oscars?) highlighting how the pervasive dismissiveness of “popular” media is a relatively recent phenomenon, and while that statement may not be entirely accurate, the attitude does seem to have amped up significantly in recent years. While I agree that it is a top down problem - creative directors, marketing executives, and the entrenched establishment of the film industry still largely direct things in certain ways - letting all of our petty prejudices interfere with exploring new things is really just playing into their hands (if you want to be cynical about it). You want to experience real change, expand your horizons.
Actually, women aren't supposed to like anything at all. If a woman likes something made for a male audience (e.g. Star Wars, Comic Books, Rock Bands), she's constantly doubted about her own feelings (You only like because of that beautiful actor, you haven't read all the zillion hqs existent, tell me three songs of this band). If a woman likes something that's made for female audience (e.g. Twilight, Taylor Swift, teenage tv shows), she's classified as vain, basic or tasteless. I like what I like. I don't want anybody judging or over analysing my taste 😜🤷♀️🙅♀️
Women cosplay as the the female characters like Chun-Li, Wonder Woman, Vampirella, etc., but they (males) would say they're just doing it for attention, they don't understand the character, Tik Tok for example.
This is false on the face, men who like nerdy geeky interests have been called "neckbeard losers/incel shooters" for years, particularly by women at times. Not to mention established celebrities like Tarantino and Martin Scorsese have denigrated comic book films.
Exactly! It's not just media too. A guy super into sneakers is cool, a girl super into shoes is shallow. Guy is into sports? Awesome! Girl is into fashion? Shallow. Etc, etc, etc...
Dudes who are into sneakers are NOT cool they lack personality, same with girls, there are multiple things that make a personality not just capitalist consumption
Sports makes you train and overcome physical and psychological barriers. Just a bad comparison
@@dcamaraman939 Not If you just watch sports which I think the commentator meant
I do agree. Others tend to appreciate people who see their bodies as tools to get to a certain goal. The ideas emphasized in sports are focus, collaboration (to reach a goal), logic and quick thinking. With beauty and fashion, the body becomes a temple for individuality. As much as people say about women who like decorating themselves with makeup, accessories, and fashionable clothes, it's less about wanting to impress people and more of bringing out one's inner selves. The values highlighted here are sensuality, feeling one's body (what feels good and pleasant), and self-love.
Nothing wrong with either one but society will be a better place if people did not devalue one or the other. And it won't hurt if people actually got a mix of both.
@@dcamaraman939 'Applied fashion' as in - actively experimenting with it, maybe even sketching clothes and then sewing them on one's own, is similarly enriching. But if what you meant was 'sports=playing' and 'fashion=just consuming trends/buying clothes' then you're comparing apples to oranges, and should probably check whether you aren't already applying a bias in that mode of thinking.
This is my main problem with the term "basic". It's "basic" that I like to watch romcoms and listen to Harry Styles but a man basing his whole vibe off of Martin Scorsese films and golf magazines is seen as respectable. How can enjoyment be gendered and ranked for it?
Ugh I have literally hated the term “basic” for years for this exact reason
literally its like "You need to be DIFFERENT and UNIQUE and Like Films Like The Godfather" like whaaaaaaaat
[disclaimer: i do know the godfather is not a scorsese film i just don't like that movie]
Because Scorsese films are cinematic art of the highest quality in its field, meanwhile romcoms are popcorn flicks made solely to make money.
@@suneelj93 Opinions are fun, aren't they?
@@lyndsaykelly9421 That's subjective reality. You are allowed to like objectively worse content, but don't shy away from the fact that it's low quality.
I remembering pestering my brother into watching "Mean Girls" and "Legally Blonde" with me, to which he was initially resistant. But he begrudgingly complied, and actually found them to be very entertaining and well written.
But these are actually celebrated
These are certified classics
A lot of men define themselves by being anti feminine, but they also don't concern themselves much with culture generally. Eg they'll love action and cars which society doesn't consider high art either
And that's because Tina Fey is the G.O.A.T.
@@halahalahala2015
They most definitely weren't when they came out.
I’ve often wondered about how ‘tomboys’ were frowned upon yet somehow be more accepted than a boy with female coded pursuits. It’s not a binary but the concept of unisex itself has been mostly skewed.
I think partly media played a role in that we didn't have socially reinforced via movies & entertainment to bash a tomboy and we had no concept of non-binary but not all tomgirls were non-binary or even wanting to transition.
Looking back on it I think it was simply a girl exploring her gender role later in life they did a study back in the 90s-2000s era where they found 90% of tomboys would grow out of it and those who were tomboys in those eras also seem to bare that out all the women I find who say they were tomboys in youth they naturally drifted back into more fem dressing traits but had some male traits like their hobbies or hairstyles but their physically attire do not seem to go off code but we also just have unisex shirts now too.
From my experience if my family didn't like how I dressed no one told me so they let me dress male full on they were very much use to me being neourodivergant and dressing however I pleased but I was a tomboy simply because it was fun one day I wore a cap and a male who I held the door for said "thank you sir!" and I was like yeah! So I dressed full on guy now well past 30 I wear unisex clothing and the rare dress (but I did have a time I wore Japanese lolita so super girly) and have only a 10 strictly guy clothing that was too cool to pass up!
I do not know if neurodivergence played a role but over the years I dressed as a dude I was constantly questioning persona wise was I male or female and me dressing male was a way to aid in that question now I understand both are inside us and there isn't a toggling type of war of male persona and female persona both persona exist and we are all good they are equals but as young girl and elder teen this was not sorted back then hence the change of outter appearance
but what I do or what I have interest in which are male aligned things that still has never changed and my family nor anyone else never made me change or think it was an issue till I hit middle school and learned we had a male vs female gamers and despite the fact I played games since I was 6 I wasn't by some stupid social edict "a real gamer" which I was also smart enough to know was soical programming and ignored it and just fought the game companies to stop being stupid propagating that sexsim.
Yes unisex has always been more male leaning. Anything pink would be gendered girly but any thing cool tones would always be unisex or boyish. No warm tones are seen as unisex imo.
It's mostly the content but it could be marketed better
But marvel is the slightly more mature form of the boy's fantasy. So that is the male version of the chick flick
Xena and Buffy were loved by many. I don't know what happens now. Probably bad writing?
And now the Beatles are indisputably high culture rock gods. The fan girls just caught on a lot quicker.
I feel like the same can be said about MCR as well.
Although they are not considered rock gods yet, I feel like they will be in the future.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 my chemical romance?
@@anju5124 yes
fangirls are trendsetters
@Amy Ritchie Are you talking about Sum 41?
I remember, as a kid, watching movies like Steel Magnolias and Terms of Endearment only to be told these fell into the category of chick flick by the time I entered junior high. I soon realized that ANY movie where the characters were primarily women fell into that category. What was considered “film” rarely had more than one female character who was primarily there as the love interest. It occurred to me that most men I was growing up with would never see a movie or read a book that illustrated anything regarding a female perspective. The views of half the planet had no audience considered “legit”.
What about Nausicae, Ghost in the shell, the silence of the lambs, the hunger games, Pride and Prejudice, miss marble, Tři oříšky pro Popelku (considered the best christmas movie in my country), Johana the arc movies> The Passion of Joan of Arc as an example , alice in wonderland, the wizard of oz, Alien, Kill bill, Jeanne Dielman, 23 Commerce Quay, 1080 Brussels' , Frida, Little Women, etc.
@@majormononoke8958 excellent examples my friend those are all exceptions to the rule it's not that men don't like female lead movies they just don't want to be talked down to while watching them which unfortunately most women lead projects tend to do
@@byronrush9802 like what? Seriously like what?
Deadass, like, the way chick flicks are dismissed but dick flicks are fawned over is frustrating and ignorant
Look at how one critic said Turning Red wasn't "universal" enough because it was about a girl going through puberty. Like girls haven't had to stomach the many movies of boys going through puberty...
Please do a video on how teenage culture is even more looked down upon. I remember Ally McBeal, SATC, Bridget Jones and Devil Wears Prada getting a ton of attention and serious analysis. Boybands and the Hunger Games were constantly mocked.
This makes me think about when my husband teased me lots about reading romance novels. He thought they were trashy stories for women. I asked him to read one for me and see if he felt the same afterwards. He really enjoyed it and apologized for his comments. These are societal views that are drilled into men and most don’t even try to see for themselves if that view is valid.
Or maybe because it's not interesting or it could be that
women and men have different interests.
Manga are other great examples of this. Romances are very popular but the ones that are written by and for women are deemed inferior and rarely get adapted into anime.
yeah and men shamesly steal for their shitty creation concepts and storylines, what is dress up my doll if not a pornified version on shoujo story? i loved webtoons and manhwa too until men find them and started to make pornwha and if i could before open any tittle read and had some cool realistic women in story now it's just oversized tities and r(pe, i need to put significant effort to find a media for me.
Anyone else bothered by the leading examples of women-oriented media being Twilight, Fifty Shades, and boy bands?
Honestly, we have Hand Maid's Tale, Queen's Bambit, The Crown, Euphoria, Wanda Vision, Legally Blonde, Mean Girls, Mad Max Fury Road, and many more that are high quality works.
I think part of the issue here is that media marketed toward girls tends to be genuinely crappy and banks on fantasy fulfillment and social reinforcement. Especially when someone is younger, they're going to look more for media they identify with and less at the quality being presented to them.
Thank you. The examples all throughout the video are really wild.
The thing is they are trying to push a narrative here. Using the example you give will directly contradict their narrative.
Everyone loves smart writing. Their is no need to put mediocrity in a pedestal.
They’re showing the properties that hold the highest craze as marvel films, Star Wars etc. Also, the properties women get made fun of for liking.
Euphoria is AWFUL. Most entertainment marketed to teen girls is vapid and unwatchable by ANYONE with more than two brain cells. The target demographic of 99% of female entertainment is white girls and women. This demographic tends to like corny and stupid storytelling like "Twilight," "50 Shades" and whatever nonsense romcom is playing. It's not about gender, it's about quality. Say what you want about these anti-hero prestige dramas or the Marvel movies, at least they're telling compelling stories. Matta fact, I would bet cash money that most women would choose the Marvel movies over the Twilight dreck all day every day.
Totally agree... except for boy bands. Women really do love them, especially kpop boy groups. HOWEVER, women also love girl groups. Spice Girls, Little Mix, Girls Generation, 2ne1, and BlackPink. We're highly appreciative of soloists, too. Taylor Swift, Nicki Minaj, Ariana Grande, Adele, etc. Now those are what I call women-centric media. Media BY women FOR women.
Also, if you think about popular male oriented “classic” entertainment (such as The Godfather, superhero movies, Fast and Furious franchise, etc) almost all of the conflict resolution is incredibly VIOLENT. Conversely, in female centered media (Legally Blonde, Pride and Prejudice, Little Women, chick flicks, etc) the conflict resolution is centered around learning to communicate effectively or some sort of internal character growth. Using violence as conflict resolution is SOOOOO socially incompetent and detrimental to interpersonal relationships, so why on Earth is it touted as awesome or cool in popular media, while more functional examples of conflict resolution are demeaned? It’s no wonder that our society is having so many issue with things like shootings and domestic violence and crime. If you take a kid struggling with emotion regulation and who hasn’t been taught how to cope with real life, and then teach him that the coolest guys in cinema solve all their problems by BRUTALLY MURDERING THEM, something tells me that’s not going to go over well
I completely agree with you! The male media is like some hell on earth where there is only answer in death. Meanwhile the female media is like, ok we have a lot of issues but lets sort things out and move on. It's more aware, uplifting, reassuring, peaceful and understanding. Even sometimes accepting. I'm not sure why is it that guys have such a hard time to be opened about their feelings.
Violence and media are NOT linked. In fact crime rates have been decreasing since the 90s and movies are still pretty much as violent as they were before. Our society is at its peak when it comes to showcasing sex but gen z have less sex than previous generations. Blaming comics and games is just the scapegoat for simplistic analysis.
Anyways we are animals and we enjoy competition and fighting. Sports are also violent in a way. We watch wrestling and even political debates are verbally violent in a way. It’s ingrained
And The Godfather is about ITALIAN MAFIAS and in all the movies its shown how dangerous the mafia is. The main characters die in both films , that’s literally the point of the movies! Fast and Furious is dumb acting without substance. Is dumb sparkly action with cgi and cringey dialogues. MCU is just fantsay and super heroes.
@@kant.68 you have a fair point. However, I do want to mention that my degree is in Human Development and I spent four years studying things like this. Absolutely, media does not cause violence. There was violence long before Hollywood existed and there will be long after as well. However, that does not mean they are not linked. Social research shows that there are ABSOLUTELY correlations (not causal, just significant empirical data showing a link) between violent media and violent behavior. I have written and read dozens of articles about the two and the correlations between them.
I do want to add, though, that media is not the only factor to be linked with violence. That’s just what I focused on in my comment because the video is about media. Violent behavior is also found to correlate in social research with things like poverty, education, familial dynamics, parental education levels, drug abuse, age of first sexual contact, porn usage, age of puberty onset, gender, history of abuse, and social competence as early as preschool. I just didn’t mention these things because they weren’t as relevant to the video topic.
I’m sorry if my comment bothered you. Please don’t think I want to start a fight. This is just a topic I’ve studied a lot and am very passionate about
@@juliannehess8631
Alright, no you didn’t bothered me. On the contrary you just told me some new info I didn’t know. But games and movies have been used as scapegoats for decades and sometimes is tiring to hear because the source of violence in our society is multi factorial.
I guess you know more than me in this matter, but I seriously doubt movies outweigh poverty, metal illnesses or bad environment in the matter. Yes we’re influenced by every bit of info that our brain perceive. But movies also talk about justice, morals, bullying, responsibility. Both positive and negative things. So I really dont see the point in mentioning that. We can see correlation between many aspects of human interactions and films for example. In both positive and negative ways. The only conclusion I could come across would be that some people are more prone to reproduce them compared to others. And those effects gonna depend on many factors, like your age or your gender or your genetic makeup for example
Dude, if anyone takes life advice or conflict resolution tips from a movie, that person's a moron.
Another annoyance I have that is adjacent to this topic is that a lot of "chick flicks" are categorized as romantic comedies when they aren't even primarily about romance, e.g. Legally Blonde, The Princess Diaries, The Devil Wears Prada etc. Like yeah there are romances in the movies but they aren't central to the plot. It doesn't occur to men that women characters can be the main character without romance being their only story.
Anything that doesn't involve violence and a main character with a penis is deemed "chick flick".
@@mariashaki89
Bullshit, also what time period
Are you in?? Theres lots
Of female charecters who
Dont have love interests.
I remember when Warner Bros realised that one of their properties, Young Justice , had a much larger female audience than male and instead of switching gears with marketing they just pulled the plug on the show... even though it was massively popular. Eventually after nearly 7 years they released the next season because the fandom was still actively trying to revive it...
Really? I didn’t not know that. That’s kinda messed up
Ugh what a mantrum
This happened to Teen Titans, too. They claimed they couldn't sell action figures to girls.
@@GenerationNextNextNext THAT'S THE REASON TEEN TITANS GOT CANCELED! Such a dumb reason
Yyyup I remember 😮💨
People have been discussing this phenomenon in regards to anime/manga. Shoujo romance/slice of life rarely get adaptations anymore while Shounen romance/slice of life are not only getting adaptions, but are also quite popular. Sowing that problem isn’t that it’s a romance, but the fact that’s it’s from/marketed to women. This is pattern that is seen throughout life(stats showing female dominated work earnings increase with more men joining and decreasing when the opposite happens.) not just media. Things only become legit when a man co-signs it.
Yet, some of the biggest shounen anime have been created by women. Particularly the woman who created Ranma 1/2 and Inuyasha. Many women creators have had to lean into shounen just to be respected as manga artists.
@@GenerationNextNextNext the sad thing about that is how some fools in the fanbase assume that a lot of these successful mangas are written by men.
@instashorts6192 full metal alchemist is mid aot is far better
It's the same with literature - men writing about family and relationships are serious authors exploring the human condition. Women writing about family and relationships are chicklit authors. It's shallow and biased and frankly embarrassing.
@insta shorts yup. FMA mangaka is female.
So as JJK mangaka, Gege akutami.
Literally this channel and SYSCA give me hope, validating female fans, if only you did a crossover.
what’s sysca?
@@ockhamsblazer shit you should care about :) it's a podcast and a newsletter. They also have a popculture podcast called "culture vulture". You should check em out!
Honestly I've just learned to tune out the noise of people criticizing your interests for the hell of it. They can talk but it's not going to affect how I feel about things.
Yeah its taking me forever to be my full real true self and tell myself the stuff I like isn't inheritly bad.
Thanks, I think a lot of people really needed to hear that, myself included.
Any guy who enjoys Adam Sandler films and Wedding Crashers has no right to feel superior to “chick flicks”.
Okay, but Bridget Jones, Legally Blond and Mean Girls are high art
I still get snide comments even from my own husband in all of my feminine interests especially makeup, TV and movies. But mention Football, video games and explosions and they defend it with such conviction that this is the most important and superior content.
So sorry u have to deal with a insensitive partner
Your husband should respect your interests, especially if he expect you to respect his
You should probably have a conversation with him about this.
@@loiracitr
He just makes fun of his wife interest siblings and family members do that all the time
Especially women as well.
It kind of is, I mean there's more character development.
I enjoy both entertainment geared towards men and women as long as it’s well written. Twilight was not a well written story and Bella was wooden and boring. Also I disagree that all female led stories aren’t loved and well received. Mean Girls and Legally Blonde are loved to this day and were well received because it was well written.
Mean Girls and Legally Blonde are good and loved, but by women not men.
Exactly. Bella Swan has never been my idea of an SFF heroine worth rooting for. Tamora Pierce was writing much smarter, more active, and more interesting heroines as far back as the 1980s, from "The Song of the Lioness" series to the "Protector of the Small" quartet. Yet for reasons I shall never understand, these much better works never caught pop-culture fire the way that "Twilight" did. As much as the presumed divide between "male entertainment" and "female entertainment" bothers me -- that graphic re: HBO Max vs. Warner Bros. Discovery INFURIATED me -- I'm as troubled when audiences reject good stories in favor of weaker ones, both male and female led. I haven't forgotten that the smart, beautiful, and moving animated film "Kubo and the Two Strings" sank like the proverbial stone at the box office while audiences were packing theaters to see "Suicide Squad."
Alien, aliens, Terminator 1 and 2 are also very popular movies and have been since they came out.
@@1XparadoxX1you have no idea about men, stop telling us what we like. I love Mean girls and many of my friends do.
@@vb2806 I’m taking about men in general, not every single man that exists, Mr. I’m not like other men.
I don’t think the MCU is considered “high culture.” The whole Scorsese and Tarantino thing makes it clear that they’re not considered high art or cinema. Lots of Oscar bait films are romance or drama, genres largely popular with women.
So true. It has often been clear blockbuster high budget films are mid brow art at best. It is funny to note that Tarantino is so loved by many critics when most of his work is rip of off of real low brow cult and exploitation films.
I think that for a lot of men they see being dismissive of women, our interests, and creations as apart of male culture. Its almost like a right of passage for many of them. Not only can they be ugly to women about it but they also dont see how it hurts/limits them. From what I see most women seem to consume the media they find interesting regardless of who's in it, who made it, and who it was marketed towards. Whereas a lot of men will adhere to a very narrow mold of what they feel like men should like, watch, and listen too, and will throw in stereotypes to try and justify why they don't like women led/created media. I can't imagine letting my gender dictate what movies, shows, and music I'm allowed to be interested in. Conditioning is real but at some point it becomes self inflicted.
I had an ex who would dismiss some of the sci fi/fantasy/dystopian books I suggested to him solely because they had been written by female authors. I told him he's the reason female authors often use their initials instead of the full names. To dedicate yourself to being that one dimensional is truly sad and pathetic. Ugh, Good riddance.
I remember playing To Wong Fu while my husband was doing some work on his laptop. It was in my rental rotation as a kid going to Blockbuster. He’d never seen it before and gradually put his work away and got really invested in the story. We were both surprised how much he enjoyed it. Was a small reminder of how I picked a good one.
Widespread non-comedy stuff about women are a relatively recent phenomenon in American media. Comedy is widely considered low culture and so is melodrama regardless of which gender is the subject. There’s the answer.
A real topic of discussion is how bad media targeted at women is treated vs bad media targeted at men is treated ( something like Gossip Girl vs Fast and the Furious)
Fast and the furious is a trashy franchise that does alot of money in the box office and Gossip Girl isn't as well known nor can make that much money by comparison. If you can make a huge amount of money then it's gonna end up getting more valued in general.
@@eduardopantoja9115 gossip girl was also a tv show
As a teenage boy, these type of films / TV shows resonated with me much more than any of the action/guns/cars stuff that most other boys my age used to like. But also, being a closeted gay kid, I had to watch them secretly and pretend to like most of that other "manly" stuff to fit in :')
I remember when there were films in the cinema with strong female leads such as Erin Brokovich the men in my life refused to watch the film with me. Yet that film was an environmental mystery. Even films which appealed to both men & women originally become only for women because then men won't like anything a woman likes.
"I'm not like other boys."
@@leamJG No, I'm not. I'm a f@g lmao
@@lemsip207
That's a fallacy guys like many things women like and female leads are loved by men.
@@lee210294
You do you son.
Historically, women were always the driving force of big movies prior to the 1970s. Hollywood viewed women to be the key audience in charge of family outings and made movies that were ostensibly family friendly but realistically with women in mind. Most of the industry's most prestigious movies for each decade had either a prominent mother figure or a religious angle. 1930s the two big movies were Gone with the Wind (epic romance) and Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs (animated fairytale). In the 1940s, a pair of melodramas (the topical male centred The Best Years of our Lives and the female centred western Duel in the Sun) In the 1950s, a pair of religious epics (The Ten Commandments and Ben-Hur ).
In the 1960s, Hollywood was changing. While the two biggest movies of the decade were a musical (Sound of Music) and an epic melodrama (Doctor Zhivago), the James Bond movies heralded the future emphasis on action/adventure movies targeting young males. Essentially by the mid 1960s the 10 highest grossing movies of all time unadjusted for inflation at that point featured many grand love stories dealing with romantic and/or religious love, often revolved around a strong female protagonist set in times during social or political upheaval.
Another factor was that the "Roadshow Musicals" during the 1950s-1960s were for the most part basically grand love stories, (yes the 2 Dickens based musicals Scrooge & Oliver! were the exeptions on that part.) When the Hays Code fell apart in 1968, movies were allowed to be more graphic therefore more male appealing.
Thank you for sharing this. I agree I think part of the dynamic is the major change that started in the late 60s.
This is why I love Japanese media. They have a lot more series and films directed towards women.
This is also why I’m skeptical of “We should be making films for everyone!” Because usually they mean just for white men since they are considered the default in our society.
Yep.
Korean media too.
... yeah I don't think you should really hold up anything Japan or Japanese media for its treatment of women. In a poll what is considered consent some I think 20 or 30% of the answers included. She gets drunk. Sexual harassment is so normalized it's just a part of daily life getting groped in full view of everyone around you while they ignore it is pretty normal. Then there is the massive underreporting of rape since it's such a reserved culture. Added to the public ridicule the victims receive. And you'd think well at least when you get them to investigate the rape you're good... Nope, it's so bad that victims have a nickname for the rape investigation they call it the second rape. You have to go back to the crime scene and in front of a group of policemen and put on a show, you have to reenact the rape with a full-sized man doll. And I wish that was the worse, but of course, it's not, how they handle DV is worse, because they don't, not until 2001 was it considered a crime or need of support, it's a private matter.
@@mycollegeshirt this person referred specifically to Japanese media where women centered culture is not looked down upon.
Are you aware Shonen manga and action anime are the most popular genres in japanimedia right? You’re complaining about a very stupid matter. Fashion is literally dominated and “coded” according to female’s taste and trends. Quite literally. Same for pop music or even literature .
Why? Women make up a huge chunks of the buyers.
A big part of creator are also women. So what if men dominate sports or entertainment? Y’all are getting pissed because they sold you the stupid notion that “we’re 50% of society “ narrative. Games and comics and geek stuff are male dominated and is feminism the one trying to force everyone and put women in spaces that naturally weren’t marketed nor created for/by them.
Dudes were into comics, filmmaking and games long before women were interested and came over. Why is so difficult to accept this? And why can’t men dictate an aspect of our culture if women dictate many others? Remember that all those “white old men” are artists but also business men. They are making products to everyone all the time, that’s literally their job: to entertain.
If anyone calls captain american high culture you know immediately to disregard them tbh
Shh. They'll hear you.
Superhero movies are still consider low-culture despite its box-office success.
@@sickandtired967
Because of Hollywood butchering it.
If you're talking about story wise and character wise it's High culture.
They are not wrong though
Ughh I have a guy friend who insists Romy and Michele is a bad movie despite having never seen it, but can't take the hint when no one wants to watch Tucker and Dale vs Evil.
On one hand I'm like "sure, I get it you want to watch a movie you like" and on the other hand I'm like "can you not see you'r being a huge hater for literally no reason other than internalized misogyny."
to be fair, Tucker and Dale vs Evil is bloody brilliant (pun intended) and to say that no one wants to watch it is an exaggeration as well as ironically the same sort of judgement as the one that your guy friend is making towards Romy and Michele. I'm saying that as a woman btw. we are not all monolithic and sometimes movies are just bad, regardless of intended audience.
Personally, I will watch and rewatch and rewatch again Legaly Blond, Devil wore Prada, Ms Pettigrew lives for a day and league of their own over and over, but you couldn't pay me enough to finish any of the twilight movies or 50 shades. But that's just me.
I think you've nailed it. Would you feel comfortable talking about the marginalised images and a distorted narrative that films have created over the First nations. Maybe research with people from these communities. You have an influence where you could start in helping giving a voice to your ingenious populace.
I'm from New Zealand and I feel that we are far from correcting all of our history's past but I don't believe we are continuing to improve communities so that people isolated from a Māori community can help by giving them the skills they need. At the moment where political decisions played out have affected many vulnerable communities. Our own government is trying to right the wrongs of decades of neglect from consecutive governments. In America there doesn't even seem to be even registered by the more liberal, progressive communities. It would be amazing to see that people, women like yourself help put a light on a highly neglected and distorted narrative.
I was debating with this guy about the She-Hulk series one time. He told me that Marvel has too many female characters and comic books and movies need to be a male thing. He said there aren't male Barbies (which there are lol), so Marvel should be a man thing.
I already knew that most of the criticism She-Hulk didn't stimmed from butt hurt men who didn't even watch the show yet. But that comment was just mind-blowing. He literally felt it was insulting to share a space of pop culture with women.
edit: Also, most of these men didn't like that She-Hulk appeared stronger than Bruce in the trailer. The MCU is a place where a 15 y/o boy can get the powers of an insect, but they draw the line when a woman is stronger than a man.
I don't know if you're deliberately misrepresenting his argument to make him sound more sexist than he is. The argument that I've heard that best describes his idea is, "Superheroes are generally aimed at the male demographic and therefore shouldn't have their male characters belittled and replaced by female characters". This is actually something that is currently happening. Barbies are generally consumed by young girls/women. Imagine if Ken became bigger than Barbie and belittled her the entire time they were on screen.
He sounds super insufferable, I hope you don't have to interact with him often.
@@thisguy7976 No, I'm not misrepresenting HIS argument. That guy was actually sexist. I know a lot of people had a problem with the belittling, I didn't like that either. But let's be honest, they're cousins, don't you have a relationship like that with your cousins or siblings?
Anyways, everything I typed is basically what he said.
@@elainestokes2787 Luckily, I don't.
@@GabesEdtiz I'll admit I didn't give She-Hulk the time of the day either. But, I was excited for it initially. And I saw a lot of clearly sexist arguments in the comments. They explained that Jennifer gained control of her powers instantly because of something in her genes. Considering we all have our own genetic makeup that makes us react differently to things, that's understandable.
Yes, in general men are physically stronger than women. But, there are still SOME women that are stronger than SOME men. A female bodybuilder can lift more than Joe down the street. "It's not sexist, it's just science."
And like I said before, why would facts matter in a place like the MCU?
What’s interesting though is why a lot of women are leads more often in horror movies?
I feel like you could have mentioned the obvious difference between Boy Meets World and Girl Meets World. This thought even reflects not to the watching audience but also to the production process. Boy Meets World is seen so much more relatable, even to the female audience yet the way Girl Meets World was written, it was as if the writers had no idea what struggles girls go through when they are growing up and the world is just like a joke, relatability is really low. Makes me sad as a woman.
Maybe shows and movies should focus more on character
development over women's identity.
The only thing good about girl meets world was the beautiful sabrina carpenter.
Plus both shows were handled by different networks. Boy Meets World originally aired on ABC and Girl Meets World aired on the Disney Channel.
This goes for video games as well. Once a guy asked me what games I played. I told him Stardew Valley, Mario, Pokemon, etc. He told me, well then you're not a real gamer.
Apparently those games are "girly" and "soft". And because I didn't play COD or Overwatch, typical "male" games, I wasn't a "real gamer" 🙄
honestly? he was just being a dick just to be a dick and because he probably feels insecure, poor baby. especially since Mario in particular is THE old school classic of video games, and some of the earliest classic video games were chose your own adventure style. and in any case, you can't win with those types, even if you do like typical "male" games, they will still find a way to demean you in some way. so no point in engaging with those types at all.
As a Queer person, I’ve always gravitated towards ‘female media’ because I never felt judged and there was some form of relatability. Not to say I haven’t made poor judgements about TV Shows and Movies.
What is ‘female media’ theres just good and bad media !
This takes me back to my teen years as a pop punk/emo rock fan and the comments i received for liking certain bands such as MCR, Fall Out Boy, Panic at the Disco, HIM etc. These genres were slandered as "girl" music, particularly anything influenced by metal but with lyrics centered around romance. I remember hate pages dedicated to calling those bands 'gay' just because a large number of their audience were teen girls, not because they personally disliked the music; they were just triggered by the mass following from fangirls.
Twilight and 50 shades of grey were ripped to shreads online but the same energy can't be found in movies such as Transformers or any Marvel film which i find boring, uninspired nonsense.
Society just loves shitting on women and what they enjoy.
And now there's a small pop punk revival where it's considered valid nostalgia, but hardly anyone will continue to support their current works
That's sad cause I'm a huge pop punk/emo fan and the fanbase is a huge sausage fest now, I can't find any chicks who appreciate the same music as me, they all stick to country and pop now, and yeah I blame the male fanbase as rare as I do that
That's bs people hold women on a pedestal for what they like
It's men who get called terrible things for liking geek stuff and were bullied for it constantly.
@@lightningmonky7674
The male fanbase isn't at fault you can't blame half of the population for a few assholes.
What is sad, men will watch or listen to Fangirl media. Look at the Beatles, the Boomer generation regardless of gender loves those songs. Kim Possible is a woman superhero who boys and girls watched and still watches to this day. RomComs regardless of what people think are watched and enjoyed by all genders. My husband loves RomComs and I only like When Harry Met Sally. So this idea needs to change more than anything. Men should be allowed to enjoy FanGirl media.
Chris Stuckmann, hands down, the best movie critic on TH-cam. Action thriller, rom com, horror whatever. That guys observations, points and love for the craft❤️
Boys/ men:
“Women need to share and respect my interests”
*girl/women genuinely do*
Boys/ men:
“POSER” “knock off” “boooh”
istg they are so emotional and complicated
@@wrendum286
Nah we are just tired of
Being vilified and
Generalized.
Nah its more like this in reality
Men: want women to like
What they like.
Women: Thats lame
I have no interest.
Things men like goes
Mainstream
Women: Men r sexist and
Didnt let us like what they
Like.
That's why I enjoy watching TH-cam commentaries where they watch Rom-Coms and teen movies because they usually end up liking the movie.
Dylan is in trouble, BillyBinges, etc.
I'm not forcing what I enjoy watching onto anyone. I will enjoy my shit, and I will let others enjoy their shit. “Male” media or “female” media-IDGAF. If I like it, I like it no matter what camp it's from. Y'all do y'all.
I’m glad most guys can admit Mean Girls is good. Because it IS GOOD.
Mean Girls is awesome. Bridesmaids is awesome. Clueless is awesome. Regardless of gender, I'd like to think guys know good when they see it ;)
Never did anything for me but I definitely think it's a good movie
9:26 I love that you're referencing Flight of the Conchords. I am, ironically, a huge fan of this novelty band, that people barely remember.
I believe that this is one of the reasons why Duran Duran didn't get into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame until this year
Who's Duran Duran and what band was he in?
Duran Duran are a band
I submit to you that Jane Austen adaptations are among the best films ever made. If you refuse to enjoy a story that is about relationships, money, and embarrassing neighbors, I don't think I'll trust your taste in film.
depends on adaptation. some of them (recent "Persuasion" cough) are absolute stinkers. others are genuinely brilliant. ( "Emma" "Clueless" "Pride and prejudice" AND "Bride and Prejudice" for instance)
I think part of the negative portrayal of fangirls is that our culture decenters, and even vilifies, female desire. Female fans like what they like, and female-driven fandom is not about male desire or pursuit, and that's treated as gross, dumb, and even predatory. Women are expected to engage with media through the gaze of the male protagonist, male director, and/or male viewer/listener, and to find attractive what men approve of women finding attractive. Female-initiated interest and desire is treating as distasteful or threatening.
the only reason i've written off 50 shades of grey and twilight is they both glorified and romanticized abusive relationships. Doesn't matter that so many women love them.
So do 90% of romantic comedies.
What I love about the Movie Reaction Community is that the ones I follow will give equal weightage and respect to movies considered not prestige.
Bit of a nitpick, but I have to take issue with the video still image still a little; does anyone really consider the MCU high culture? When Scorsese's out there saying it's barely even cinema, I don't think it's the best example of the "boy entertainment = art, girl entertainment = trash" dynamic.
This is starting to be an issue in anime. Shonen has completely taken over the mainstream anime space so that shoujo works, even ones that sell well, are starting to struggle getting adaptations. I’ve been trying to watch more shoujo as I’ve realized how skewed my anime viewing has been. Colleen’s Manga Recs is a really good channel that discusses this.
I remember back then Shoujo was common, nowadays we only get one rushed season, missing the 90s and early 2000s Shoujo and Josei
@@jenniferstudent5258 Exactly
Japanese anime really brings what lacks in American industry, FEMALE SUPERHERO. If women took over magical girls would replace the avengers. That would be Epic.
Do you guys got any good shoujo recommendations for Netflix? It'd be nice to enjoy some nice titles!
@@Turquerina Not OP but I guess some classic shojo would be Kaichou wa Maid Sama or Ouran host club. It's been a long time since I've watched shojo but I used to watch tons. I used to like Magical girl Lyrical Nanoha, Sailor Moon and Shugo Chara when I was very little. And today I just finished Skip Beat but the anime doesn't really end so I read the whole manga. I think more recent good shojo would be tonari no kaibutsu kun, shirayuki hime and kamisama hajimemashita. I read somewhere that the shojo genre is dying.
I'll be honest. I'm a woman and I HATE rom-coms. I find them boring at best, and toxic/dangerous at worse. I also hate reality shows with a passion. I also hate sports.
amongst
MCU films also have a lot of fangirls, not just fanboys.
Yeah, 75% of the people I see talking about it online happen to be either women or AFAB
That's true. I have an Avengers RP book on Wattpad and most people who sign up for it are girls.
I find it hilarious when Homophobes attack Harry Styles and his (impeccable) style because I know they’re jealous. Attacking him is not the answer.
Homophobes???? Harry isn’t even gay wtf. Plus any men wearing a dress unironically deserves to be mocked on im sorry. A dress is made having the female body shape in mind, is literally composed to fit a gynoid body type
I can definitely relate to the music part of this. Like oh my gosh I don't even know where to start on how being a fan of metal music while also being a girl is so agonizing. I don't even call myself a metal head anymore because of my experiences. It's a long story 😅
What do you mean?
@@mukta4689 While this video is on how media for female audiences is looked down on, us women who happen to like things with a large male fanbase still get criticized, the metal community being one of those spaces. Guys will think you like metal music to get attention, there's a lot of mansplaining, and if they do manage to get that women do genuinely like metal music, then they act like you're a rare species who needs to be romantically pursued. Mention one other interest that isn't metal (especially if you dare to say you like some pop music), then they find that kind of repulsive. I've also seen comments where men criticize metal bands for going soft when the members call out men for harassing and injuring women in mosh pits, saying that such actions are to be expected at a metal concert.
I've seen some people say some of the nicest people they know are metalheads, but I'm starting to wonder if that's mostly other men saying that because I haven't been as lucky to say the same. I still enjoy metal music, but no longer am I part of the community. I'm glad I eventually learned to embrace my variety of interests (feminine ones included) rather than feel ashamed of them, and I've found people outside of the community who don't shun me for that.
@Ks
No they don't they can like whatever they like, the thing is chicks got to stop letting people's words effect them, dudes been made fun of
For everything by women & men
and they still kept liking it, giving
Up what you like because people
Mock is a weak, sad thing to do.
@@tfvk7632 that's a lie, guys are very accepting of women into their spaces I think people stereotype men as the enemy and as bad
Like no man ever has been accepting of women liking things
Most guys like me are dying for women to like the things we do.
@Ks
People Mocking you're likes
Happens, but it happens to everyone
Not just women, That's bs most
Things women like are seen as high value it's just chick flicks that are just seen as bad, music made by women and female lead shows
Like buffy are well liked by many
People this whole low culture, high
Culture thing is just something
To divide the genders over something stupid there's many
Things from the female community that's loved by people, music, films
And shows I think the problem is the overall overemphasizing on gender that makes dudes loose interest.
I was a big fan of MCR when I was 13 and I was accused of only liking them because I found Gerard Way attractive 😕Every band I liked I was accused of only liking because I found the band members attractive, not because I genuinely enjoyed their music. What's worse is that I was 13 and didn't give much thought to their appearance.
Oh, also, I think another effect of this is the fact Netflix - and other streaming companies - are more likely to cancel female-led TV shows that include WLW as the MC. First Kill had barely any marketing but high numbers on Netflix, surpassing Heartstopper, and they cancelled it after the first season. Other shows like this are Trinkets, Gentleman Jack, and likely more. They don't market stories with LGBTQ+, poc and/or female leads the same way they do cishet male stories.
I’ve enjoyed Spirit: Riding Free and felt it was woefully undervalued as a cartoon that had great character writing, immensely intense action and real tear jerking moments. Seriously, Episode 13 broke me.
On the Anime front, a lot of Cute Girls Doing Cute things like Show By Rock and D4DJ were very heartfelt if a bit over the top with some of their ideas. I super recommend them to anybody in need of something to take the edge off.
I think girly media gets written off on two fronts. One is out of classic misogyny where one will go “Blech” at something wearing its femininity on its sleeve. Another is out of disgust for what they feel is misogynstic, thinking that they are stereotyping all girls as just cute and borderline infantile.
Another… is basic taste as one might just prefer something else with a better presentation.
My sister got surprised I read Gone Girl- I think she called it a "chick flick". Wtf
Gone Girl is pretty intense with a lot of violence. It's not what most people would call a chicken flick (the term is often used for shows that seem to show women in stereotypical or even caricaturish roles such as shopping, talking on the phone, getting their hair styled xD.) Gone Girl is about a female psychopath playing a rather twisted 'game' with her significant other (who is also, at least in the book, also a psychopath or has traits of psychopathy.)
It's a dark psychological thriller with multiple characters that are extremely screwed up. The type of cat and mouse game shows and books that have plot twists, red herrings, sometimes murder or revenge as principle themes. Definitely not a classic 'chick flick.'
@@kpaxian6044 i think its a chick flick technically cuz its a movie aimed at everyone but mostly women because most of its fans r women; its not a bad thing to be tbh its just a discriptor
This reminds me of when the animated show Young Justice was cancelled, because its decently sized viewer base was tween girls, which disappointed the executives who wanted to use the show to sell toys to little boys 🙃
As someone who stans 9 or 12 artists, all female, 3 k-pop groups rest English speakers. I relate to this so much. I'm not a stalker I just cut out their pictures and collect their albums. As a nerodivergent girl, it helps me understand the world and issues like mysogony in the industry.
I want to go into the music industry in a few years, and I think everyone needs to respect them.
Like there are so many portrayals of fan girls with mysogoistic undertones, once my younger brother watched on episode and it had so much casual internalized sexism, it was in a children's TV and it was written by a woman.
Can't us normal ones breath?
Sure, who knows about the mental healths of KPop artists and Bollywood stars?
Misogyny is seen as bad and
There's rarely ever any negative portrayal of women in entertainment whatsoever.
@@SlapstickGenius23
People are weird man.
Hey you two. I think it could be really interesting to decode the "Bro culture", that hugely existed in the 00's and 2010's.
Furthermore, you put out so much content, I hope you can follow along on a personal level - don't overstress yourselves to adhere to TH-cam's insane posting schedule.
Better to have deep quality content. Don't get yourselves stressed by posting so often.
Much love from a subscriber who loves your deep content.
"Don't bore me, don't confuse me and don't insult my intelligent". This is my sentiment to watching movies and music. This whole guy or girl entertainment is really a belittlement to everyone, when all people want to watch is a really good show, listen to really good music, read a really good comic book (to me that's literature printed like newspaper) or play a really good video game. All of these gender oriented notions is basically a nothing burger at this point. It a Chick Flick, It's a ganster movie, what are we suppose to call it. This here is really getting out of hand and let's call it was it is.... A WASTE OF TIME. There is no such thing as high or low culture.... It is just culture. Therefore to some extent... this whole gender narrative just a big dumpster that adds little to no-one live. I don't care if a big blockbuster explosion movie is made by a woman or a romantic comedy is made a man. As long the movie, music or anything culture oriented is good. Like I said in the early "Don't bore me, don't confuse, don't insult my intelligence".
you should take under consideration however that promoting is a huge part in the process of the launch of a movie. In the creative process os something of large scale there will always be a marketing team that will decide in wich direction to go and wich audience to appeal. It would be great to like what you want and be presented with every genre and kind of movie, but at the end of the day labels and movie houses are seeking after money. An example of this is why male targeted movies like Avengers series or Fast and furious are always present at movie theaters, while at the same time romcoms are excluded. In music the same discourse persist
@@mylastnameissugarcube7683 There's a problem with your comment. Yes, I agree with you when studios and production companies have to rely on the basis of money. However look at this in a perspective, people go to the movies to enjoy themselves. Noone's looking at which production studio is producing the movie, or what genre of the movies is replying to. I personally don't care about what genre or representation of the movie is appealing to. I go to watch movies to enjoy myself, and the goes with music, video games or any other popular demands of pop culture. Let me tell you this, say you want to buy a phone.... do you buy that phone because of the brand of quality or do you buy that phone because of what is useful towards your everyday use, or both whatever the case... That being said, why is it an issue about genre representation if you have critical thinking whether the movie is good or not, or what music
suits your taste. As long as it doesn't belittles its audience, there should be no problem.
@@mylastnameissugarcube7683They are one of those “I don’t see color” when it comes to sexism. You can’t argue with those. They think they’re above the programing and that sexism isn’t a problem.
@@PrincessLioness ooh aah, someone one doesn't see the things the way I see them so now there racist and sexist. 😖 Grow tf up.
This reminds me of the rise and fall of "Women Pictures" in the 1930s by hollywood, when executives realized that women have a lot of buying power when it comes to deciding which movies they take their families to (Women, Gone with the Wind, etc (it's been a minute since I was in film school so I don't quite remember)), many of which were major commercial and financial successes. It seems like Hollywood remembers and then forgets that women are an extremely lucrative audience every decade or so, and it's very frustrating!
I'm a guy who read twilight. I feel it was definitely over hated and most guys who talked crap about it didn't even read or watch it
Bc it was bad lol
No it was bad 😂 I’m a girl and I admit it was
Most people, my self included hate Twilight because it ruined the mith of vampires (and werewolfs)
Don't lie, you thought the jokes were funny
You sound like the guy trying to be a good guy for women in a false way. The books and movies sucked. It’s literally universally disliked. Why do you think both critics and normal people are in agreement and thus the movies have very low scores on IMDb rotten tomatoes etc
My BF brought to light that desirability of behind the scenes roles plays a part, like lifting heavy equipment in place; it's not something you'd necessarily want to be known for careerwise.
Growing up I loved horror and action movies AND I also really loved romance. I never rolled my eyes or scoffed at any particular genre, yet for men it's like second nature to scoff at entire genres that are *especially* loved by women. It's deeply insulting and comes from such a blatant place of arrogance and a feeling of superiority.
Glad to see videos like this exposing male hypocrisy because their attitude has been so deeply normalized. This subject matters even more to me now as a mother of boys.
Also I have to mention, the "fangirl* stigma really affected me too. I felt like the "girly" things I loved had to be loved almost secretly. While my hypermasculine father gets to jump up off the couch and shout like a psycho when his football team scores a point.
I say the world needs more hate. I know this sounds horribly wrong, but in a fair world, we'd dedicate as much hate towards Michael Bay movies as we did towards "Twilight".
I know, they are so loud,
plus he has too much,
of an ego,
he won’t care.
@@mirandalyneetestewart3083 Doesn't matter, is the public who needs to change.
Pf, Pride and Prejudice is absolutely female oriented and it's not low culture.
Regardless of that, it has nothing to do with gender.
Yes, Twilight is only considered bad because it's "for girls"
I think it's considered worse than say, Transformers, which is basically the male equivalent of the time.
But that would be wrong. They are both pretty terrible u less you have rifftrax for them. Then they're both a blast!
It is bad but there are plenty of HORRIBLE films and sagas catered to men and no one blinks an eye.
No the Twilight films are actually garbage ! buffy the vampire slayer is the amazing one !
Not sure I really agree on the High Fidelity take. Those guys were music snobs and didn't distinguish based on gender but based on what they considered acceptable music.
Beatles are not known for their earlier teen heartthrob work, they are known for their genre bending innovative later work. Sargent pepper etc.
But their teen audience grew with them and loved them through their evolution. My mom was a teen then, she was still into Let it Be and the white album.
Oh my god their comparing twilight to the Sopranos and Avengers, what the hell
My mother in law was so shocked that my husband watched Barbie that she asked him 3 times - YOU really watched Barbie? With a giggle.
Can you please make more videos covering Avatar The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra
Yes, please, I wish that they'd continue on with their "Bender" series, it's really fascinating.
What are you hoping they'll cover specidically?
@@boneybaron2508 The remaining two elements, Air and Earth. Also, character videos in both series.
It's very true. Men have degraded me online for enjoying doll collecting, but when I see their social medias, it's full of video games and comic book information.
On the flip side, I think this misogynistic approach to things have rubbed off on some women, causing men to be afraid to dive into female driven content. One male friend of mine loved My Little Pony and The Powerpuff Girls. A girl that he liked found out about it and just started calling him a wuss, started shaming him for having girl centered interests, and then said she'd never date him because she wants someone masculine. A girl on the Fred and Angie Morning Radio show said the same thing about a guy who worked part time as a Christmas Elf. When I was in Elementary school, and this was back in 1999-2000, a boy in my 5th grade class picked up a Barbie book to read for story time and none of the girls in the class would let him live it down. There was an episode of iCarly where she wouldn't even date a dude because he was collecting something equivalent to Beanie Babies. There are still many women out here who do think that certain entertainment is ALSO just for the girls, and so can't be surprised when female driven entertainment can't get the box office numbers they want it to nor the respect.
We need to break down the gender divide and allow people to open their minds and explore what they like. It doesn't say anything about sexuality or gender identity. People just like what they like. When we get to the point where being like a teenage girl isn't any more of a problem than being like a teenage boy, and that a boy being into what teen girls like is not bad, we can finally see progress.
Your mindset is truly the most enlightened, I'm a hardcore metalhead but I also think Taylor swift is maybe the best solo pop artists of all time, if not top 3, idgaf what people have to say about it I'm unapologetic
Next time someone says anything mean to you about your doll collection tag me in it I'll deal with them! also Powerpuff Girls is life that bitch be crazy !
@@lightningmonky7674 I'm a metal head as well but I'm sorry the best pop artist is britney spears!
@@obvioustroll3617 that's not a bad choice, I can't help but dance when toxic comes on 🤣
@@lightningmonky7674 IKR 🤣 One of my favrote not metal acts is AQUA you should check them out if you haven't !
Its really bad in the rock and metal fandom. Gatekeeping in general but it seems as soon as a female audience likes a band they are not legitimate anymore...even though women buy tickets, and albums, and merch, and consume content. And if you look at music history, female fans have really driven the genre.
In college I interned at an entertainment group that owned several rock stations, one of the station's morning shows featured a game where the men would guess if breasts were real or fake from submitted photos. I made a comment that while I liked the music they played over the other stations, I was turned off by antics like that and had they considered if they were turning away female listeners...I was told they had a male target audience. They did not even consider the women who listened to the main alternative/hard rock station in the area (and there were a lot)!
This was very enlightening. I’m rather disgusted that a tv show’s production was finished and a studio won’t release it because the feel it won’t make money.
I can not think of a movie, or show that was made in the last 3 years that I’ll rewatch. This includes titles that are critically acclaimed as of now
I honestly have been disappointed in most women-focused superhero movies.I have this theory that I call “the pink power-ranger problem”. Basically, businesses predict female superheroes can’t be stand alone characters (you can’t sell just the pink power-ranger, you have to group her in with the boys). Therefore, when there is a female focused superhero, less creativity, care, and funds go into their production. It’s sad and I feel a little gas lit when people tell me I have to like it. Give me the legally blonde of the MCU!!!! (Well written, good character development, life lesson for the viewer)
Could a take have been done about female fandom for male based performers and how that looks to the male artist in their genres
Speaking of which, haven't you ever notice that most boy bands and male rock bands usually have a big female following. But most girls groups and female rock bands usually don't have a big male following, and usually have a big female following.
Also I tend to know that most young girls make a big deal out of their male celebrity crush, like you see them with dozens of pictures of the favorite artist in the room and they'll usually talk about it. Like you heard about how artists like Justin Timberlake or Gerard Way have a lot fangirls who are constantly screaming for them. However, I tend to notice that it isn't the same the other way around. You usually never hear about young boys being super crazy for their favorite female artist. They don't have dozens of pictures of them in their room nor do they talk about it. Plus you almost never hear about big female artists having a lot of fanboys screaming for them. Like I don't think Christina Aguilera or Hayley Williams had to deal with a lot of fanboys fighting for their attention. Maybe there are some young boys out there who do you have big celebrity crushes on a female artist, but maybe they just don't get as much attention as young girls do.
I wonder it's like that.
I never was a fan girl or a fan boy and I have to confess that I love videogames for example, but I am scared of the aggressiveness of most gamer boys, so I tend to shut my hobbies :(
I never understand the fan girl mania but to be honest, they are more open if you don't attack their tastes, girls tend to share, so definitely is more fun being with fan girls even if I don't get it.
gender stereotypes must die
since when your fav genres of movies depend on your sex?
I don’t treat Twilight, 50 Shades, and 365 days as art, not for their genre, but for how problematic they are. If they kept the same themes, but highlighted healthier relationships, I can see more people liking them. I hate how they are about domestic violence, but masked ad erotica.
I love movie commentary channels like Billy Binges, Dylan in Trouble Movies in Death, Movie Budz, etc. because they don’t judge by female centered or male centered. They just want to react and analyze movies. They judge it by the story, dialogue, acting, etc.
This proves that men do like movies about women by women too. They are out there.
But I do get the female media is looked down upon just because it is about women which is sickening. Women are people too and deal with similar experiences as men (dating, school life, work). But they do share different experiences too due to sexism and power dynamics.
The real question is why anything related to marvel is seen as art - this is indicative of a deep cultural malaise more than anything imo.
It is art. And it's always been.
@@angelinalilliepad well, sorry, maybe I should say worthwhile beyond the technicality of being art.
@@angelinalilliepadi politely disagree
I think it's still a contentious issue because many of us are still only just now---- in the last 15- 20 years---- waking up to all of the many injustices and disparities in the world after literally thousands of years of living with them as a norm.
Sure, throughout history, there are moments of trying to close these various gaps, but with the advent of tv, and then of course more widely the internet and social media, for the first time in our civilization's history do we have access to so much information so that we can see, explore, question and (God willing) finally understand. An all of this only in the last 80 years!!! As a result, people who want to close these gaps are finding other like minded people and are therefore finding resolve to try change it for good. But proper change takes time and investment, and therefore patience. And it's of course frustrating as hell when there are those who try to undermine this change, and insist on things like inferiority and other such bull sh*t excuses, but this change is indeed happening and (I believe) cant be stopped.
I think things will for sure change, be we are only now in the middle of the long game 😁
Love is considered low entertainment and violence high quality? This is a good example of what's wrong with America.
Ok, there are many apt observations here, but I have one issue (I don't know, maybe it's US vs Europe thing): things like the MCU are not really considered to be high culture, are they? They are the epitome of pop culture and you say it yourselves when you say that millions queue up to see those movies. They're only treated with all seriousness by people who have made them their whole identity (and yeah, those people also get mocked for it as geeks and neckbeards and whatnot). High culture is typically defined as something not very easily accessible, something where you need to focus to get it and it might be a bit challenging (dare I say: boring? ;-) ) at first before you learn to appreciate it (like French New Wave cinema or atonal music). Both Mean Girls and MCU are very much well-made low/pop culture, ie. designed for mass appeal. And yeah, it's true that female-targeted or female-centred media tend to be brushed off by the "popular consensus", but it doesn't change the fact that ultimately they can still be very successful and often get more appreciation over time (like the Beatles who are now legendary). Again, I get a strong sense that the approach presented in the clip could be a US vs Europe thing.
No, it's not a US vs Europe thing. The Take just doesn't understand what is high culture.
@@leamJG i didn't really want to put it so bluntly haha.
I'm not sure I agree with this one. You seem to equate what's high profile with what is respected. I don't think superhero movies or action movies are any more respected than chick flicks. No-one calling for Dwayne Johnson to be given an Oscar, and male comedy and action movie stars like Will Smith or Jim Carrey had to switch to more 'serious' roles before their accolades came. Hell, even in your video, you legitimize Harry Styles by pointing out that he's appeared in 'interesting arthouse movies' (not frivolous chick-flicks, right?).
It's fine to acknowledge that certain movies are meant as light entertainment, whereas others are genuinely attempting to say something serious (and sure, occasionally there may be some crossover). Nobody thinks that Michael Bay movies are attempting a serious critique of the human condition any more than fun romantic comedies are. I love 10 Things I Hate About You, but I'm not complaining that it doesn't appear on 100 Greatest Film lists. American Pie and The Breakfast Club might both be about teenagers, but that doesn't mean they're considered of equal merit artistically. And that doesn't mean that the fun movies are of no value. But it seems like you're saying that there are movies out there that would be recognised as cinematic masterpieces alongside the Godfather if only they weren't about women.
There are plenty of more serious movies (not enough) that centre female characters or discuss romance that are revered. The work of Greta Gerwig or Sofia Coppola, or serious romantic movies like the work of Wong Kar-Wai or films like Blue Valentine or A Star is Born are all well-respected. Obviously there need to be far more diverse voices behind the lens in cinema, and I hope that more women get the chance to direct, but I don't think that means that the likes of Twilight and 50 Shades are some sort of amazing high art that's just been undervalued because it's aimed at women. Plenty of stuff is popular but critically panned. Plenty of stuff is made to be fun and watched again and again when you want a bit of escapism.
Okay, I agree with almost everything you guys said. But what about the fact that female fandom also promotes legitimate and dangerous trash like the twilight, after and 50 shades books and movies?
its a vicious cycle honestly, many women grow up internalizing toxic shit as romance and pursue them in popular culture, which sustains it popularity, making sure that more girls see it and thus deepen the internalization, and so on and so forth
recently it seems to be moving away from this a little, but its still really prevalant in so many things, especially fanfic and shit
@@heywhat6676 yep
Male fandom also promotes the Transformers movies and the Big Bang Theory.
@@suburbantimewaster9620 agreed, but just because male fandom has problematic issues, too, should not mean that we should discount similar problems in the female fandom.
@@raveenasavadi655 You’re right. I’ve known people who criticize the problematic issues of female media while blind to the problematic issues of male media but, as my mom says, two wrongs don’t make a right.
I'm a woman. I think some of the female led/centric films and tv series need more positive supporting and lead male characters. Especially some of the more recent ones. Don't just make the men goofy, eye candy, or the villains.
They do that to women in the male focused movies.
@@Shearedfield In some yes, but we've had many great female leads and supporting characters in male centric/lead films. Éowyn in the Lord of the Rings, Princess Leia in the Star Wars OT, Black Widow in the MCU. They had character growth and were integral to the plot. They were far more than eye candy.
I agree whole heartedly. I see this in a lot of content catered to children. If there's a male lead, he's usually dumb or a simp of some kind, some weird "nice guy".
@@GenerationNextNextNext it's unbearable bro, like is it fantasy fulfilment? Do chicks just want muscle bound simps to talk down to?? 🤣🤣
@@Shearedfield
No they don't rarely ever.
What about Nausicae, Ghost in the shell, the silence of the lambs, the hunger games, Pride and Prejudice, miss marble, Tři oříšky pro Popelku (considered the best christmas movie in my country), Johana the arc movies> The Passion of Joan of Arc as an example , alice in wonderland, the wizard of oz, Alien, Kill bill, Jeanne Dielman, 23 Commerce Quay, 1080 Brussels' , Frida, Little Women, etc.
Hunger games being a wildly popular and beloved by men and women, etc.
As is the Wizard of oz.
All these movies are either considered classics or great mainstream movies.
The video is definitly right, but i think many people just dont realize that there many great female lead movies with all kind of genres and also many different perspective.
They are a very tiny drop in a very large ocean.
The problem with some of the classic novies for women is that they don't show us as well-rounded people with interests and drive. Bridget Jones is funny but her career always plays second fiddle to her guy troubles. We need more content like Ms Marvel or the Old Guard, where we can wstch women being unapoligetic about being their own brand of badass and having good relationships with friends and families. Or Andor is trying tp do it better, with Vel and Cinta being (I believe) Star Wars' first gay couple and still being focussed on saving the world.
"The Old Guard" absolutely deserves more attention.
Twilight really is garbage. And I love movies TV shows that cater to female and queer audiences. Hence why I'm subscribed to this channel. Twilight's only saving grace for me is that it occasionally had eye candy. And, with that, is still barely palatable. But good one's like mean girls and legally blonde, etc. I'm all in for that movie marathon any day.
I don't think there should be more female writers just for equality's sake, there should be more female writers only if they are good. Just like how I wouldn't want to get a job only because I have connections or "daddy" got it for me, I don't want women to get things handed to them just because of their gender. Female writers should get jobs because they earned it and deserve it and so many do even if it takes time, like Jennifer's Body.
And there shouldn't be more female lead movies and shows if it's just a ripoff from male ones like Supergirl or Batgirl. The use of "girl" also makes the heroin sound childish, inexperienced and unoriginal. Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are original, use better and more appropriate names and also have higher ratings because people go and watch it knowing they can't compare it to the male equivalent.
There is also something to be said that sometimes men are able to write good female characters like in Ripley in Alien or many of the girls in Euphoria. Sometimes male action films and shows flop.
The main issue is quality. When you have complex characters, an interesting plot and a good cast, it doesn't matter if it's male/female lead or male/female directed or written, people will like it because the content is worth it. You shouldn't be calling for more female writers and characters, you should be calling for a higher standard of female (and male) writers and characters.
For example, Promising Young Woman took a chance by taking a usually male dominated field (female revenge films) to do a film about, and managed to make all the male ones, as enjoyable as some are, look silly and unrealistic by doing it with a very female point of view and with very feminine cinematography and with a good cast. It wasn't copying male films, like superheroes do, it was wholly original and well made. Mrs. Maisel for example sounds very boring for male viewers, but the premise of the series and lines and standup are so funny and good, many men watch it.
Quality is key and that comes due to merit, we should push for that more.
There's a show that I really love that no one seems to talk about and that's Stargirl. CW tried so super hard with Batwoman targeted for women with its disastrous first trailer. Stargirl just feels like if it's targeted for everyone and the show has good female characters.
It has good male characters too
That's what dudes want a good combination of both.
Because for once they figured out character development is what people like.
Geek culture while it has its problems when it comes to women is not high culture or high art. It has been understood for years high art when it comes to film is art house films while everything at best is mid to low brow art. Than you have the movies that prove the test of time and these no matter if they high art or low are viewed as classics like Same time next year or The Women.
And all of the examples they use for Geeks are characters making fun of them. You can't say people take them serious and then show characters where their geekiness is the punchline.
This applies to literature too! When a man writes a book its a serious novel and "literature" but when a woman does its "chicklit".
Thats not neccersarily the case
Personally, I think even the “High Culture” vs. “Low Culture” distinction itself reflects an elitist mindset (though not always an ill-intentioned one). Those terms are completely nebulous and can change dramatically depending on time, place, and the overall zeitgeist. The Take did a video a few years ago (Black Panther: Too Popular for the Oscars?) highlighting how the pervasive dismissiveness of “popular” media is a relatively recent phenomenon, and while that statement may not be entirely accurate, the attitude does seem to have amped up significantly in recent years. While I agree that it is a top down problem - creative directors, marketing executives, and the entrenched establishment of the film industry still largely direct things in certain ways - letting all of our petty prejudices interfere with exploring new things is really just playing into their hands (if you want to be cynical about it). You want to experience real change, expand your horizons.
Finally someone realises this! Oh my goodness, thankyou so much for this video.
Actually, women aren't supposed to like anything at all.
If a woman likes something made for a male audience (e.g. Star Wars, Comic Books, Rock Bands), she's constantly doubted about her own feelings (You only like because of that beautiful actor, you haven't read all the zillion hqs existent, tell me three songs of this band).
If a woman likes something that's made for female audience (e.g. Twilight, Taylor Swift, teenage tv shows), she's classified as vain, basic or tasteless.
I like what I like. I don't want anybody judging or over analysing my taste 😜🤷♀️🙅♀️
Women cosplay as the the female characters like Chun-Li, Wonder Woman, Vampirella, etc., but they (males) would say they're just doing it for attention, they don't understand the character, Tik Tok for example.
This is false on the face, men who like nerdy geeky interests have been called "neckbeard losers/incel shooters" for years, particularly by women at times. Not to mention established celebrities like Tarantino and Martin Scorsese have denigrated comic book films.
Ever heard about a movie called Titanic? It's "female entrainment" but it's good and well written, and well directed.
Funnily enough, I dislike the writing and directing of Titanic lol
Is it though? LOL! In retrospect, Titanic is quite mediocre honestly!
Movies like Civil-War and Winter-soldier dwarf it in quality!
It got a pass from the male audience because it's made by the Aliens and Terminator guy.
Being a hit does not make a film high art house films like badlands breathless my private Idaho , not high budget blockbuster mainstream films.
@@i.f.a2132 better than twilight !