Metering & Notes - Large Format Friday
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2020
- The greatest cause of slowdown in the large format photographic process is the one-shot-at-a-time nature of shooting. While this can sometimes be a bummer for catching that quickly moving shot, this can also be advantageous for exposure and processing control. If we can load and expose sheets of film individually, instead of on a roll of multiple frames, we can exercise exact control over those same individual sheets. With these extra steps in mind, making light meter readings and taking notes can make all the difference in your results.
Ansel Adams' "The Negative": amzn.to/2T1XoUN
More about the Sekonic L-778 Spotmeter: matmarrash.com/blog/2014/4/17/...
Questions? Send me an email: largeformatquestions@gmail.com
Content by Mat Marrash
www.matmarrash.com - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I've just a few more pages to finish reading "The Negative" and can vouch that it is an incredibly comprehensive volume on exposing and developing film. Spot metering and the zone system can easily be very overwhelming so thanks for helping to simplify it!
Thanks Dave! Personally, I found metering to be frustrating until I got my first spotmeter. Then it all started to make sense and there was a sense of control to my work.
Whoah!! That hair is hitting some serious Johnny Bravo territory!!! But seriously I am loving this whole series of large format videos keep them coming.
Thanks Matt, and I don't think the hair is going anywhere but up!
nice explination of the zone system, PS. fred Newman photography (view camera store) did an OK job too, he also explained that if you know the film you are using, by testing, both exposing and printing, to get the best results. this also means that you Don't have to know everything!!, just know the qwerks of YOUR preffered film stock, wether it be colour, b&w, landscape, portrait, or infra-red, even x-ray film, but the key point is to KNOW it, inside out; that reduces the workload, once the testing is done.
Great explanation
one other good tip, incident meters like Gossen lunasix also have a spot attachment, so if you have one of these then it reduces cost of ancillary equipment, just buy the attachment, not another whole meter.
I have been a large format photographer for a long time. Here are my takes:
1. I use light metering over the film plane with Sinar Booster 1 + Minolta Flashmeter IV (III and V work too). There is a very good broncolor film plane metering system too. That metering system gives the best measuring precision for any type of bellows movements and extensions.
2. The exposure factors induced by lens extensions are already taken care of by the system, meaning you don't need to measure the length of the bellows and/or filters used and do calculations. You still must consider the failure of reciprocity, though, considering the time of your exposure, as you appear to do with the note-taking on the video.
3. With outdoor scenes, where you cannot modify the light, I measure the contrast. If it is greater than 4 stops for positive film, I have the development reduced. For b&w and color film, the same if contrast is greater than 5 stops. Outside I use to take the highlight with detail reading measurement and open the aperture 2 to 2 and a third stops. For the shadows, I close the aperture 2 to 2 and a third stops.
4. With table-top pictures, generally I modify the lighting to optimize contrast.
5. I would recommend the book PHOTO KNOW-HOW, The Art of large format photography, by Carlo Koch and Jost Marchesi, especially relevant for Sinar users.
Keep the good work!
I’m so happy someone is doing this
Great stuff Matt, you really are a natural teacher. I've never really thought that thinking in zones was difficult, but I know that many people think it is. For me the best part was the stickers. My method had been a pencil mark on the holder. In "California and the West," Weston described using different film boxes on long trips and put his film into +, normal and - , since he had relatively few holders and might shoot a hundred or more sheets in a trip.
Thanks! For long projects and limited developing, I've definitely used marked film boxes before (especially on a large trip in 2018).
This is the best explanation of the zone system that I’ve ever heard!
Thank you very much Jim! :)
When you said "catpain's log..." this didn't surprise me at all. Thanks for all you do, it's fascinating.
Brilliant! A very good explanation of spot metering and how it can be used with the Zone System. I also like how you include metering and the use of the Zone System for positive film and digital capture. I'm in the camp that thinks that those who aren't measuring light for digital photography are missing the creative aspect of the Zone System. One thing...since lowering a Zone 5 shadow reading to Zone 3, or into Zone 2 provides the correct exposure, it really isn't "underexposing". It's the same with moving Zone 5 to Zone 7 or into Zone 8 for highlights...it's not "overexposing" since it gets you to the correct (or creative) exposure. It is just shifting Zones. I think the terms "under/over" exposure as they relate to the Zone System make it confusing for those first learning its benefit.
This was fantastic Matt!
Great video as always, Mat. A trick a mentor told me about the Zone System really nailed it for me: Zone III + 2 stops or Zone IV + 2 stops. For example, if a Zone III exposure is metered f16 at 1/60 then expose at f16 1/250. Felt more confident about the Zone System after I figured that out and saw the results. Just have to figure out when to dev film + or - now.
You've got it Bill! The hardest part with the Zone System is getting that consistent workflow and standardizing developing to match your output. There are many ways to process negatives and display prints, but what matters is how you plan to do it. Cheers!
Thanks so much Mat. I've been a listener to the FPP since getting back into Film Photography in 2017. I've always enjoyed your contributions and now that I find myself acquiring my first 4x5 camera - I'm finding your videos super helpful and answering many of my questions. I can't wait to have time to take my Intrepid out for it's first shoot!!
Another great start to a Friday!
Thanks Mark!
Keep up the awesome work Matt. Very encouraging to us all!
Thanks James!
Thanks Mat. Very useful.
This was very well done. I still use a Pentax analogue meter I bought in 1979 and, as many others have done, I studied Ansel Adams' The Negative to learn how to use it. The digital memory on that Sekonic is appealing to me because my organic memory is showing its age. Thanks.
Thank you Michael! Still very much a fan of my Sekonic, but for a more portable, modern solution check out the Reveni Labs Spot Meter: th-cam.com/video/RBlacFq74JA/w-d-xo.html
Quality video and great energy Mat!
Thanks Michael!
Another excellent video. Thank you Mat!
Thanks Ian, glad you enjoyed it!
excellent tutorial... straight and crisp.
No nonsense and easy to digest
exactly what I need... thanks
Thanks Bo, glad it was helpful!
Great ideas! I like that sticker method very much. Thanks!
Thank you! I have this meter and you explained it well so that I feel I can use it now with confidence.
Glad it helped!
Another great video, Mat! All around helpful video on metering - regardless of the format.
The Zone System has uses in a variety of formats, but once we get into the darkroom, the large format advantages become even more apparent.
Great Mat, and a perfect segway into pushing and pulling film based on conditions!
Thanks Bill! I'm excited to get into the darkroom for some videos, maybe not so excited about squeezing all the gear in there.
Mat, if only I had watched this video this morning. I actually shot a few sheets today. I was looking for shadows but needed this video to help me. Oh well...next time. This was still very helpful! Thanks!
Thanks Peter! If you were looking for shadows and you narrowed down your exposure from there, you're already well on your way. Keep it up!
Nice tip using the stickers. You could even write +2 or -1 on the sticker to hint at developing times.
Very helpful, Mat. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Slick loading there Mat, Haha. Great video and series too. I just wanted to send a thanks for the effort you’re making here, it’s been great so far. Love that you introduced the dreaded ZONE with naming it. I’ve been reading Adams, The Negative for the past couple of days and this video just set it in stone even more. Thanks dude.
Thanks Steven! Honestly if it wasn't an easy system to use, I'd have moved to an easier one by now!
I’m currently reading the negative by Adams. I picked up all 3 books in the set. This video really helps clarify how to use the zone system. Now I just need to load some film in the holders and get out to take my first LF photos. Just wish I would have bought a field camera instead of the monorail version. I’ll have to shoot fairly near the vehicle for now. Thanks for the timely info!
Thanks for the comment and glad this video helped! I'm a huge fan of Ansel's trilogy and constantly find myself thumbing through all the oodles of great info in those books. Cheers!
Great explanation of zone system metering. Thanks much. Neat idea to use the stickers.
Thanks Jim, the only trick with the stickers is remembering to keep them in the bag. ;)
My note taking approach for 4x5 is to use an index card for each photo (or sometimes each holder). I can then stick the index card onto the film holder and my note goes with the negative as I develop. Simple and easy to track.
Nathan, what a cool method, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for this video. )))
You are very welcome Gary! :)
Wow! This video is info packed! I think this is the first time I actually grokked the zone system. Thanks for explaining things so plainly! Also, I have family in Cincy and a few weeks ago I took my M645 1000s with me to Clifton Gorge and got some great photos. Love that place! The waterfall after the steps was dried up though which was a bit of a bummer.
Hey Joseph, glad you found the video helpful! Ohio waterfalls during the middle of summer tend to be much smaller than normal. If you see there's going to be a couple of days of rain, try to plan a waterfall shoot around the following morning. Should be plenty of water, but slippery trails.
Placement is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the zone system.
Thanks for the wonderful channel. It is an inspiration every Friday (and I have watched since week 1). For the last six months, I have intermittently trolled through the auction site looking for glass 4x4 color contrast filters. The only ones which pop up are the Lee resin filters. Is there a brand or a maker you would recommend? And again, thanks for the channel. Inspiring as always
For resin filters Lee and Formatt Hitech do a good job. For glass I like my Tiffen, Schneider, and Sinar filters. Only ones I've ever bought new were these Tiffens, all the rest were very used.
Just to make sure I got it… you take a reading of the shadows and then remove 2 stops from there. You take the picture at that exposure. You then take a reading of the highlights and add 2 stops. You check how far these values for highlights and shadows are from each others in terms of stops. If less than 5, develop longer; if more, develop less. Is that it?
Hey Mat, you might want to mention to your viewers that some of your techniques and equipment apply also to 35 and medium format film. Paterson and Jobo have reels for roll film. Wait, I just mentioned it!
Well those aren't very large formats, now are they? ;)
Great video Mat, would have liked to hear details about setting the camera exposure based on the meter readings.
Thanks! Check out the "Field Work" playlist for practical use of this episode during a shoot:
th-cam.com/play/PLiVKO2nQMmxQe_DyLjUv-P6VcPZNEzEjC.html
Hi. This video series is awesome. When are you doing a video on N+ or N- processing ? and you calibrate your time.
Hi Emmanuel thanks for the comment and suggestion! More darkroom videos are coming soon.
Yay
Brilliant explanation. The only thing I didn’t get is, which of the two readings would actually set the camera to. (Sorry if this is a stupid question but I’m new to the zone system).
Hey Caula, not a stupid question at all! If you're shooting negative films (B&W and C41), you'll want to bias your exposure based on the meter reading of the information in the shadows. If you're shooting instant film or E6, you'll want to
Ex) On a bright, sunny day your meter reads 1/125 sec. @ f/8 in the shadows (Zone III) and 1/125 @ f/32 in the highlights (Zone VII). Both readings lead to the same conclusion, an exposure of 1/125 @ f/16 to "place" all the details in their correct Zones.
@@MatMarrash Many thanks for your detailed explanation. I'm looking forward to try and gain experience with implementing the zone system.
OK Mat, So how do you process sheet film for different lengths of time? Once the film is removed from the holders how do you tell which sheets need a different time in the developer?
Thanks.
Hey Robert, when I'm processing in trays, I just count them out to a musical beat while shuffling through the stack of negatives. More on what happens to them in the darkroom coming soon!
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hi I am not sure if you still read comments but I maybe missed the part where you explain which numbers do you use for your calculation? Do you use large format numbers - lets say your lens is f16 or do you recalculate for 35mm and get f2.1 for 8x10 ? because based on this you will get very different exposure times
Hey there thanks for the comment! Metered exposure won't change do to a change in the size of film. f16 on 35mm is the same as f16 on 8x10, but likely the compositions and "look" of the image will change. When metering my goal is to find the range of values in which my optimal exposure will be. For more tips, check out some of the newer seasons of LFF!
Why do you (or the Zone System) suggest to meter for the shadows? I guess I could also meter something that should come out as middle tone gray and place it on Zone V. What’s the idea behind metering the shadows (first)?
Since I work primarily in negative films, this gives me the ability to have full control over the shadow detail on the negative. From there, I can cater development (more on that soon!) to the highlights to make sure contrast is within the film's range.
Hey Matt, I really enjoy your videos and I have a couple of questions about LF cameras. I’m looking to get a 4x5. I’m looking at a Crown Graphic or maybe a Linhof Technica on a budget. Looking at eBay, I see stuff “from Japan” that is half the price of the same thing from the states. Is that trustworthy or what would you suggest? Thanks and keep up the good work.
Hi Robert! I always recommend purchasing a camera you have a chance to see prior to purchase like at a local camera shop. That being said, I've made a purchases from Japanese dealers and they have been great, often conservative in their valuation of gear. The weakest link in that process is shipment.
Thanks. I’m interested in landscape/architecture. Have you done a video on pushing/pulling B&W film.
Covered it extensively on the FPP but not here on LFF yet.
Hei Mat very clear and helpful zone system explanation thanks!
I'm shooting 4x5 bw film, and I'm ok with negative, but I want to ask you when I shoot slide film, what I have to do?
I mean with negative read the shadow and close 2/3 stops, but for slides? Read the highlights and...... ?
Thanks a lot
Ivan
Hey Ivan thanks for the comment! When shooting slide film you'll want to take readings in both highlights and shadows. If your scene has a "standard" 5 stops range from shadow with detail to highlights with detail, take the reading two stops closed-down from the shadows. If there's a wider dynamic range and the highlights and shadows are further apart, you'll want to take your highlight reading with detail and open up your aperture two stops (or multiply shutter speed indicated by 4x). Note: when biasing exposure towards highlights, shadows more than 5 stops from the measured highlights will go black.
@@MatMarrash Hi Mat ok got it thank you so much!!!!
So, if I’m taking pictures with roll film, I have to keep everything pretty uniform, because the roll is getting developed all at once.
I like your videos (recently discovered) but why would anyone bother to shoot large format if the process is a "bummer" - the slow and deliberate format is part of the attraction. the only large format I would even begin to consider for "action" is my speed graphic - but in reality - if I want action on film I shoot medium format or 35mm.
Thanks for the comment! I think the frustration can come in especially when someone is new to large format and might be expecting a faster pace not only in shooting, but results as well. A little patience with process goes a long way!
Mat ~ by how much do you generally under/over develop? 1 minute on either side? I understand it's unique for each, but generally speaking?
It's does vary, but ~25% per stop adjustment.
What about stand development in regards to the zone system? Is it a no no?
Good question! Stand development takes advantage of the compensating effect that occurs when you allow developer to exhaust in highlight values before the shadows do. Proper metering still comes into play, but there's a tad more wiggle room (and grain) thanks to the development technique. Cheers!
Man I wish I can grow and style my hair like Matt.
🤣 it's getting harder and harder to maintain that LF height!
@@MatMarrash because of you I started large format photography Matt. Don’t get tired with the content. Take a rest and regroup sir. I learned a lot watching your videos.
so is it better to change f stop vs shutter speed...right now i have been shooting and changing shutter speed because i want a spific depth of field. i am doing medium format
Great question! In order to maintain creative control, use whichever you prefer. If shutter speed gets too slow, you may have to compensate for reciprocity failure.
so, like u woke up in th emorning and decided for that hair style? and talking about light meters?
Speaking of darkroom, I think that would be a good direction for LFF
For example I would love to see you talk about diy enlargers from lf cameras
Definitely heading there soon, stay tuned!