The achilles heel of the traditional pentecostal movement is the unspoken assumption that spontaneity is analogous to a genuine move of God. This has led to the typical believer to not be trained in sound wisdom in exercising spiritual gifts, and to an isolation of gift expression into a small number of people. These isolated people seem to inevitably fail, bringing shame on the name of Jesus and harming God's people.
@scubaoctopus I think so, insofar as this lead to churches of unwise sheep with unpracticed (or actively supressed) discernment, with leadership that is also unwatchful
One does not automatically have to blurt out something. One can sit on something to be sure. If God is really pushing you to deliver a word, you won't forget it and the push to do so won't just disappear.
I am so thankful that the Lord brought me to your channel a year or so ago. My wife and I have been new to the gifts really as of 2022 including prophetic things. My previous church was starting to provide more space to operate in this and even had Michael Miller do a mini conference but unfortunately I also looked to TH-cam as didn’t have mentors or discipleship in this space. It has been a journey and I am very cautious about who to follow but putting my stock in the words the Lord gives me and my wife. It’s been very discouraging to see how really there isn’t a true fear of God from these people. I pray that I would weigh very heavily any word I give that I hear from God. Unfortunately our current church isn’t practicing the gifts but maybe why He brought us there to bridge that gap. Praying that this happens at the local level as you mentioned across our nation and our world.
I know you guys don’t like these kinds of videos. (You usually say that when you judge prophecy over the new year) But I find this to be the most helpful and life-giving content you have. Thank you. Years ago I was manipulated by prophecy gone wrong. (I’ve also experienced the good so I’m no cessationist) I was so confused for a long time. These videos really helped a lot. Also I didn’t know Shawn Bolz data mined. *sigh* I used to really like him.
@The Remnant Radio I used to belong to a large national ministry that has since changed its name , they had an amazing way of handling prophecy during the service. It always went through a pastor first before it was spoken to the congregation . It was very unique and always in order . When I tell people that I went to a church that had a 'prophecy' mic, I would get strange looks. But because it was done in order it went well.
I'm not entirely sure that can be stated accurately. The prophecy of Isaiah regarding the birth of Jesus was originally a prophecy about something that happened in his time. It was, effectively, a twice fulfilled prophecy. I am of the belief that the gifts, including prophecy, are given for the edification of the church. The timeline for "coming to pass" is going to be "edifying for the church." I believe that principle is both biblical and helps us to discern God's voice in the sea of voices trying to confuse us.
Dual fulfillment prophecy is its own tricky area. Since OT prophets were tested in part on whether their words came to pass when predictive, a prophet could not be tested on words happening after their lifetime, which would create a conundrum according to the testing requirments. But if there can be dual fulfillment there can be triple and quadruple, which creates new issues potentially.
It is important to remember prophecy is not all about prediction, only partly so. Also motivational speaking is not prophecy although it might be exhortation.
You guys are correct , prophecy and the gifts need to begin in the Church. My experience is that the gifts are just are not encouraged in charismatic nor pentecostal circles .
Along your discussions on prophetic ministry in the church. There were sometimes that it was mentioned on stage ministry- I’m wondering what are your methods of allowing prophetic words to be given during a service. Is it during a set time? Do they have to share their word with an elder first or how do you guys go about this? Just wondering about the practicalities that you implement at your churches
No one can( edit: predict/know beyond a doubt) - the Future. That's by design and the Laws of Physics. Maybe someday our churches can become the G League for the California Psychics Network.
The equivalency argument doesn't really hold much weight. I am not really aware of a verse that tells us not to baptize, so I guess we ought to baptize everyone without distinction.
I feel like the transformed lives that Paul speaks of in 2 Cor 3 was the "living letter". Not the crazy woo woo behavior from their previous lives in the temple cults that the Holy Spirit somehow legitimized. Desire to prophecy probably was more like "desire to encourage your brothers and sisters". No woo necessary. These folks were new to The Program and needed a lot of Holy Spirit TLC and gentle discipline. I doubt much of it had to do with the psychic stuff.
@@paulral Eh. . . but you can't discount the patterns of how the Hebrews and then Jews viewed the presence of the Holy Spirit on people's lives. If you look at the Old Testament accounts, unnatural behavior which you are describing as "woo woo" was frequently attributed to the Holy Spirit coming on people.
@@darthnocturnis3941 since the dawn of Homo Sapiens each generation has deemed it necessary to reinvent the wheel, fire, psychic ability etc. In hypergraph terminology the branchial space of extrasensory perception is a popular branch for many (besides humans) to move around on. Danger Will Robinson and back to the OPs original idea.
Love this stuff. Not always but greater the word smaller the audience (Mount of Transfiguration). Larger the audience more chewable the word (baby food).
A tricky issue with dual fulfillment prophecy is if there can be dual fulfillment there could be triple, quadruple etc. And should not part of the word up front have to include info that this will be fulfilled more than once?
Long time fan and subscriber of Remnant - the work you all do is awesome!! Is there a link anyone can share with the evidence of the Shawn Bolz stuff? I'd like to look into this further and perhaps send to a few people who follow him closely. Heart-breaking, but we need accountability in the prophetic. Thanks and blessings
What are your thoughts when a church releases a yearly “prophetic word” that becomes their theme for the year? “This is the year of _____”. Is it too generic?
Accountability to elders is good but who are the elders accountable to? Meaning in a verifiable way, if one is citing one's elders for verification for prophecy given outside of a church body. There is no test for a "false elder".
"Pentecostals: tongues were the only gift and all the others happened at conferences." Josh, I'm a near 30 year believer, all of that among the Pentecostals. That has not been my experience. I've seen every 1 Cor 12 gift exercised in that time. I'm sorry yours was not the case, but I understand your environment. My aunt was a long time AG'er.
Great job, brothers..and thank you for emphasizing the importance of the gift of prophecy in the local church ,rather than sensational online national words!..But oh wowzer!! Things are getting out of control out here in "charismaland"! Considering recent proclaimations, decress and "speaking Kingdom rule glory days into existence" by literally thousands of unproven "prophets" .....it seems the majority of their words fall into this category typified by phrases like : "Oh, my people, you are moving into excelleration!... and a changing of the old guard and old wineskins as I ,the Lord, bring justice to those who opposed My David! For Trump shall become a trumpet..The wealth of the wicked is laid up for you..Receive your mantle of wealth anointing! Bitcoin shall rise! Likewise you will rise as you are the head and not the tail!...so stand strong and take dominion as I show signs % wonders and rebirth your land!.. and I will bring holiness to the house you call the White House". Or condiser the kingpin honored chief of most all this MAGA/money obsessed crowd , Copeland, as his most recent prophecy was :"In 2024,we reached the shore!..2025 we will come alive!..2026 all will be fixed!....then came his outrageous predicting his own120 year life span "..and in 2056, I'm leaving here!" (inferring by that that there's NO way Jesus can return for many many many years! ..Notice that none of these "greatly anointed superspirtual prophets" said a peep about the worst fire in history to ravage Los Angeles!)But rather, we have those like Robin Bullock saying "prophecy" in mockery of Biden "Grab the jackal by the leg and shake him like a dog!...Witches, back your as__s up!" or Kat Kerr shouting "Woohooo Roll up your rapture rug, for I've time traveled 150 years in the future and saw in America, there were cities of light where there was no more crime and sin and sickness!"...or others claiming "The wealth reversalism is almost here, as the Babylonian system in Rev 18 is about to fall!..then I ,the Lord , will fill this Earth with My glory as My Cyrus,My Son Donald, will have the treasures of darkness given to him and the wealth of gold in New America shall fund this billion soul harvest!" Freinds, this is an outragous falsification & disgrace of the Gospel-centric, holy gift of phrophecy! (We must note that so much of this type of "national prohetic word" reflects exactly the disturbing Kingdom Now/Dominionism/"manifested sons of God" theolgoy of William Branham and Bob Jones.. This not a minor issue! ) May God bring purifying fire to end this fraud and misuse of this holy holy gift!
Major bummer on Shawn Boltz; I remember watching him minister in Castle Rock, CO years ago. Regarding the 7 Mountain Mandate, that moniker may not be found in Scripture, but it is most certainly biblical that every segment of society be evangelized.
Here you go. www.youtube.com/@TheRemnantRadio/search?query=courts%20of%20heaven One says "part 2" but none say "part 1"- that's because Ken Fish is part 1. :)
I do agree with this statement and I believe Remnant Radio does as well. However, scripture doesn't teach the cessation of prophecy and even a cessationist (any good one) will have to conceed that it is an extra biblical doctrine. Scripture does teach however to not despise prophecies but test all of them and to judge anyone or anything that claims to be prophecy. We can't throw out the baby with the bathwater with these things. We shouldn't chase prophecies but lean in on the written word providentially left for us. We also should be open to the possibility of a prophetic word that could be from the Holy Spirit.
Words in a book ?? Jesus is the word of God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh & dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace & truth.
@ ”So then, many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.“ John 20:30-31
@susankowalewski4357 I agree. That isn't what I meant to originally type. I edited the comment as when I first typed it was in a rush. It was a typo and error. I would agree with you exactly. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of the Jesus, The Living Word of God.
I think the specific gift you are really talking about words of knowledge. I am beginning to think that prophecy proper is more focused on reminding the people of the New Covenant and drawing them back to Jesus much like the Old Testament prophecy. I think modern charasmatic churches use words of knowledge and call it prophecy.
The reality is this: if you give a prophecy and it does not come to pass, you are a false prophet (deut 18:22). People will try and give excuses around that verse. However, God is very clear. You guys need to open your eyes because no one is buying your false prophecy nonsense. I am not a cessationist but you guys really need to catch a wake up - you are false prophets and it’s hilarious to see. I’ll say it again, Deuteronomy 18:22 is your metric. If it does not come to pass then you are a false prophet and you need to repent. Demons also exist so be careful and test the spirit. Most Christians claim to have discernment and that is far from true. They are easily fooled and it is sad. The fact that you have courses for your so called gift makes it even more funny.
1 Cor. 12:29, the question is actually, “all are not prophets, are they?” Also, look at 1 Cor. 14:1. How could Paul say that to the church at Corinth? Don’t make the Scripture contradict itself 🙏🏼 Blessings
The problem with the prophetic movement in this country is that it is American centric. They look through a distorted lens. I can't listen to them. Even Kim Clement which I liked was distorted. Christian nationalism and Krishna identity politics will always lead people into error. This has been the story since the days before William Branham for which he was a part of it.
Prophetic Integrity is practically non- existent, at least,not with the current actors on the stage. Too many self- appointed prophets!
The achilles heel of the traditional pentecostal movement is the unspoken assumption that spontaneity is analogous to a genuine move of God. This has led to the typical believer to not be trained in sound wisdom in exercising spiritual gifts, and to an isolation of gift expression into a small number of people. These isolated people seem to inevitably fail, bringing shame on the name of Jesus and harming God's people.
AMEN😊
And bringing psychological manipulation and spiritual abuse.
Well said
@scubaoctopus I think so, insofar as this lead to churches of unwise sheep with unpracticed (or actively supressed) discernment, with leadership that is also unwatchful
One does not automatically have to blurt out something. One can sit on something to be sure. If God is really pushing you to deliver a word, you won't forget it and the push to do so won't just disappear.
I am so thankful that the Lord brought me to your channel a year or so ago. My wife and I have been new to the gifts really as of 2022 including prophetic things. My previous church was starting to provide more space to operate in this and even had Michael Miller do a mini conference but unfortunately I also looked to TH-cam as didn’t have mentors or discipleship in this space. It has been a journey and I am very cautious about who to follow but putting my stock in the words the Lord gives me and my wife. It’s been very discouraging to see how really there isn’t a true fear of God from these people. I pray that I would weigh very heavily any word I give that I hear from God. Unfortunately our current church isn’t practicing the gifts but maybe why He brought us there to bridge that gap. Praying that this happens at the local level as you mentioned across our nation and our world.
Great episode fellas … i look forward to your program every week …
I know you guys don’t like these kinds of videos. (You usually say that when you judge prophecy over the new year) But I find this to be the most helpful and life-giving content you have. Thank you.
Years ago I was manipulated by prophecy gone wrong. (I’ve also experienced the good so I’m no cessationist) I was so confused for a long time. These videos really helped a lot.
Also I didn’t know Shawn Bolz data mined. *sigh* I used to really like him.
@The Remnant Radio I used to belong to a large national ministry that has since changed its name , they had an amazing way of handling prophecy during the service. It always went through a pastor first before it was spoken to the congregation . It was very unique and always in order . When I tell people that I went to a church that had a 'prophecy' mic, I would get strange looks. But because it was done in order it went well.
What is the timeline for it "coming to pass"? Isaiah's prophecy about the birth of Jesus took hundreds of years to pass.
I received a prophetic word and it took over 20 years for it to come to pass ..... oddly enough I remembered it when it started to unfold ....
I'm not entirely sure that can be stated accurately.
The prophecy of Isaiah regarding the birth of Jesus was originally a prophecy about something that happened in his time. It was, effectively, a twice fulfilled prophecy.
I am of the belief that the gifts, including prophecy, are given for the edification of the church. The timeline for "coming to pass" is going to be "edifying for the church." I believe that principle is both biblical and helps us to discern God's voice in the sea of voices trying to confuse us.
Dual fulfillment prophecy is its own tricky area. Since OT prophets were tested in part on whether their words came to pass when predictive, a prophet could not be tested on words happening after their lifetime, which would create a conundrum according to the testing requirments.
But if there can be dual fulfillment there can be triple and quadruple, which creates new issues potentially.
It is important to remember prophecy is not all about prediction, only partly so.
Also motivational speaking is not prophecy although it might be exhortation.
Off topic of your guy's normal show themes, but could you do an episode on being spiritually exhausted?
This is a good suggestion.
You guys are correct , prophecy and the gifts need to begin in the Church. My experience is that the gifts are just are not encouraged in charismatic nor pentecostal circles .
So so powerful, this conversation! ❤
Along your discussions on prophetic ministry in the church. There were sometimes that it was mentioned on stage ministry- I’m wondering what are your methods of allowing prophetic words to be given during a service. Is it during a set time? Do they have to share their word with an elder first or how do you guys go about this? Just wondering about the practicalities that you implement at your churches
How many verses warn about false prophets compared to how many verses warn that you should listen to (NT) prophets?
No one can( edit: predict/know beyond a doubt) - the Future. That's by design and the Laws of Physics. Maybe someday our churches can become the G League for the California Psychics Network.
The equivalency argument doesn't really hold much weight. I am not really aware of a verse that tells us not to baptize, so I guess we ought to baptize everyone without distinction.
I feel like the transformed lives that Paul speaks of in 2 Cor 3 was the "living letter". Not the crazy woo woo behavior from their previous lives in the temple cults that the Holy Spirit somehow legitimized. Desire to prophecy probably was more like "desire to encourage your brothers and sisters". No woo necessary. These folks were new to The Program and needed a lot of Holy Spirit TLC and gentle discipline. I doubt much of it had to do with the psychic stuff.
@@paulral Eh. . . but you can't discount the patterns of how the Hebrews and then Jews viewed the presence of the Holy Spirit on people's lives. If you look at the Old Testament accounts, unnatural behavior which you are describing as "woo woo" was frequently attributed to the Holy Spirit coming on people.
@@darthnocturnis3941 since the dawn of Homo Sapiens each generation has deemed it necessary to reinvent the wheel, fire, psychic ability etc. In hypergraph terminology the branchial space of extrasensory perception is a popular branch for many (besides humans) to move around on. Danger Will Robinson and back to the OPs original idea.
Love this stuff. Not always but greater the word smaller the audience (Mount of Transfiguration). Larger the audience more chewable the word (baby food).
A tricky issue with dual fulfillment prophecy is if there can be dual fulfillment there could be triple, quadruple etc.
And should not part of the word up front have to include info that this will be fulfilled more than once?
Long time fan and subscriber of Remnant - the work you all do is awesome!! Is there a link anyone can share with the evidence of the Shawn Bolz stuff? I'd like to look into this further and perhaps send to a few people who follow him closely. Heart-breaking, but we need accountability in the prophetic. Thanks and blessings
I love the discussions you guys lead! What's up with the new music at the beginning? Unsettling...
RT Kendall’s book is great
What are your thoughts when a church releases a yearly “prophetic word” that becomes their theme for the year? “This is the year of _____”. Is it too generic?
They've generally expressed dislike for beginning of the year prophetic words and stuff like that, so I doubt they'd like this.
Accountability to elders is good but who are the elders accountable to? Meaning in a verifiable way, if one is citing one's elders for verification for prophecy given outside of a church body.
There is no test for a "false elder".
"Pentecostals: tongues were the only gift and all the others happened at conferences." Josh, I'm a near 30 year believer, all of that among the Pentecostals. That has not been my experience. I've seen every 1 Cor 12 gift exercised in that time. I'm sorry yours was not the case, but I understand your environment. My aunt was a long time AG'er.
Great job, brothers..and thank you for emphasizing the importance of the gift of prophecy in the local church ,rather than sensational online national words!..But oh wowzer!! Things are getting out of control out here in "charismaland"!
Considering recent proclaimations, decress and "speaking Kingdom rule glory days into existence" by literally thousands of unproven "prophets" .....it seems the majority of their words fall into this category typified by phrases like : "Oh, my people, you are moving into excelleration!... and a changing of the old guard and old wineskins as I ,the Lord, bring justice to those who opposed My David! For Trump shall become a trumpet..The wealth of the wicked is laid up for you..Receive your mantle of wealth anointing! Bitcoin shall rise! Likewise you will rise as you are the head and not the tail!...so stand strong and take dominion as I show signs % wonders and rebirth your land!.. and I will bring holiness to the house you call the White House".
Or condiser the kingpin honored chief of most all this MAGA/money obsessed crowd , Copeland, as his most recent prophecy was :"In 2024,we reached the shore!..2025 we will come alive!..2026 all will be fixed!....then came his outrageous predicting his own120 year life span "..and in 2056, I'm leaving here!" (inferring by that that there's NO way Jesus can return for many many many years! ..Notice that none of these "greatly anointed superspirtual prophets" said a peep about the worst fire in history to ravage Los Angeles!)But rather, we have those like Robin Bullock saying "prophecy" in mockery of Biden "Grab the jackal by the leg and shake him like a dog!...Witches, back your as__s up!" or Kat Kerr shouting "Woohooo Roll up your rapture rug, for I've time traveled 150 years in the future and saw in America, there were cities of light where there was no more crime and sin and sickness!"...or others claiming "The wealth reversalism is almost here, as the Babylonian system in Rev 18 is about to fall!..then I ,the Lord , will fill this Earth with My glory as My Cyrus,My Son Donald, will have the treasures of darkness given to him and the wealth of gold in New America shall fund this billion soul harvest!" Freinds, this is an outragous falsification & disgrace of the Gospel-centric, holy gift of phrophecy! (We must note that so much of this type of "national prohetic word" reflects exactly the disturbing Kingdom Now/Dominionism/"manifested sons of God" theolgoy of William Branham and Bob Jones.. This not a minor issue! )
May God bring purifying fire to end this fraud and misuse of this holy holy gift!
So Agabus missed it,huh?
Major bummer on Shawn Boltz; I remember watching him minister in Castle Rock, CO years ago.
Regarding the 7 Mountain Mandate, that moniker may not be found in Scripture, but it is most certainly biblical that every segment of society be evangelized.
Think he got the dead dog prophecy off
Social media ?
I want us out of the two wars we are in.
Can you guys do a show on the courtroom of heaven?
Here you go.
www.youtube.com/@TheRemnantRadio/search?query=courts%20of%20heaven
One says "part 2" but none say "part 1"- that's because Ken Fish is part 1. :)
Please read “The Gift of Prophecy” by Wayne Grudem
I'd be very surprised if they haven't read it.
Scripture is sufficient
I do agree with this statement and I believe Remnant Radio does as well. However, scripture doesn't teach the cessation of prophecy and even a cessationist (any good one) will have to conceed that it is an extra biblical doctrine. Scripture does teach however to not despise prophecies but test all of them and to judge anyone or anything that claims to be prophecy.
We can't throw out the baby with the bathwater with these things. We shouldn't chase prophecies but lean in on the written word providentially left for us. We also should be open to the possibility of a prophetic word that could be from the Holy Spirit.
Words in a book ??
Jesus is the word of God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh & dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace & truth.
@
”So then, many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.“
John 20:30-31
@susankowalewski4357 I agree. That isn't what I meant to originally type. I edited the comment as when I first typed it was in a rush. It was a typo and error. I would agree with you exactly. The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of the Jesus, The Living Word of God.
The Remnant Radio agrees.
I think the specific gift you are really talking about words of knowledge. I am beginning to think that prophecy proper is more focused on reminding the people of the New Covenant and drawing them back to Jesus much like the Old Testament prophecy. I think modern charasmatic churches use words of knowledge and call it prophecy.
Yes to all of it. This is it and people see through the folly of it all.
I'm done with Dutch
What did I miss about Dutch?
How do you know prophecy isn't local?? Maybe it's become so local the overflow is national... yall are so hyper critical
The reality is this: if you give a prophecy and it does not come to pass, you are a false prophet (deut 18:22). People will try and give excuses around that verse. However, God is very clear. You guys need to open your eyes because no one is buying your false prophecy nonsense.
I am not a cessationist but you guys really need to catch a wake up - you are false prophets and it’s hilarious to see.
I’ll say it again, Deuteronomy 18:22 is your metric. If it does not come to pass then you are a false prophet and you need to repent. Demons also exist so be careful and test the spirit. Most Christians claim to have discernment and that is far from true. They are easily fooled and it is sad. The fact that you have courses for your so called gift makes it even more funny.
"Do all prophesy?"
1 Cor. 12:29, the question is actually, “all are not prophets, are they?”
Also, look at 1 Cor. 14:1. How could Paul say that to the church at Corinth? Don’t make the Scripture contradict itself 🙏🏼 Blessings
1
🌟🔥🌹🌹🔥🌟
Real simple use the Bible as the standard. So easy.
The problem with the prophetic movement in this country is that it is American centric. They look through a distorted lens. I can't listen to them. Even Kim Clement which I liked was distorted. Christian nationalism and Krishna identity politics will always lead people into error. This has been the story since the days before William Branham for which he was a part of it.