SO many great little learnings packed into one little project, and nicely explained! Whether one needs to make a tap or not, this is worth watching just to learn a LOT of little tips, tricks, and better ways to do things. (Just a few: why and when to use a spotter drill, not a center drill. Leave the plastic on the end mill. Drill bits are for/better at making holes in X situation; end mills in Y situation, BUT think about these things too which is why you need to actually use BOTH to make ONE hole in a particular, unusual situation. Which you wouldn't do (and would probably screw it up) if you didn't know & think about several characteristics of each! Etc....) THANKS for a great little tutorial.
Small thin sections of silver steel should be hardened & tempered in oil, water can sometimes be too harsh/cold and crack the object. What about the burrs on the thread after end milling the holes and de burr’ing?
I have to say, your dremel fixture setup was brilliant. I always fear breaking out that tool as it's the time I always think to myself, "this is where I turn a nice professional looking part into a garage hacked together looking part."
I found the Demel / brass hinge set-up to be a stroke of genius. Nothing to be ashamed of there. Your vids are interesting, informative and relaxing. Always learning something. Thanks for the post.
Thank you so much for a very nice technical video. Try this little trick on for size, (from an old Machinist/Tool & Die Maker/Welder/Designer 40 years, retired disabled over 10 years ago.) Put your lathe in 1/2 back gear...In other words, pull the gear handle, but don't pull the pin. That will lock your chuck spindle, if you're going to use a tap handle. On another note, put your tap into a chuck, morse tapered into your tail-stock. Use your spindle chuck key to turn your stock and the chuck on the tail-stock for holding your tap. In this case, don't tighten your tail-stock. At first, lean into it to start the thread. Then just turn the chuck 1/2 turns using your chuck key to turn your stock. Don't use tapping oil...use Crisco Vegetable Shortening instead. You'll break far less taps this way! You'll also find you can power-tap using Crisco. When close to the end of the tapping session, finish by hand and then reverse on back out, after you come to a complete stop, or you'll pop your tap! (If you're tapping Aluminum, use Terpentine as a cutting oil.) You made mention, that your work wasn't supported from behind, when in the divider head chuck. I had a plastic sectional box of WOODEN parallel bars, that I used for this very purpose. Be it in a chuck or in a machine vice, my work was always level. If it got drilled into, so what. It would still work for some things. When it was shot, all it was, was a piece of oak I had machined in my spare time. Chunk it in the garbage and grab another one out of the box. That would take care of your support problem. Also, that was a Kewl jig you came up with, using a door hinge and a Dremel tool, to cut your slot. Here's something you can do, when you're hardening something...crush up a bunch of Walnut Hulls. Then crush up the coals from a wood fire. Don't take it all the way to a powder...that's explosive! Just down to granuals. Mix the shells and the carbon and DRY play sand and put in a metal bowl. Dig a shallow hole in the center, a tad larger than your part. Heat to a dark yellow or light red, whichever works best for your equipment/application. Then lay your part in the hole and immediately scoop more mix over the part. Then pour more dry play sand over it. (this holds the heat and allows the Walnut shells to inject the carbon into the open pores of the surface of the metal.) Forget about it for an hour. Using tongs, reach in and get your part. You have just CASE HARDENED it. Now heat IT up just before red and drop it in oil. This hardens and gives a memory. Then heat it in a shop toaster oven, on about 175 degrees for about 20 minutes...and then let it cool to room temperature on it's own. You just annealed it. If it's TOO hard, it will be brittle, and will break! The annealing takes the brittle out of it. Thanks again for posting a great video!
Excellent stuff. I recently inherited a mini-lathe. It was completely covered in grease. Using your videos I was able to take most of it apart and clean it. Now I’m just watching video of things you’ve made. Very fascinating!
I LIKE This channel. Watching stuff being made on a lathe, mill, (and sandblasting, which you don't) ... is very fun -- especially of the highlights at fast speed. It's hypnotic. Thank you.
I enjoy videos of people making things. My primary occupation is in a military firearms factory, and work with mills, drills, CNC machines, and lathes. My hobby is restoring acoustical talking machines and making the cylinder records for early two minute machines. My father makes miniature steam engines so has small lathes and mills. Thanks for a nice video.
A really good video, all processes clearly described without unnecessary commentary, very useful for me as I also have a Boley watchmakers lathe needing feed-screw renovation. Thanks.
Making a tap and die? What a courageous effort! Great work. You are my hero! I love the detailed technical explanations and lessons from experience you are passing on. Great stuff!! Keep them coming!
My tiny Proxxon MF70 micromill will chuck a cutoff disc and I use that when I can. Cutoff discs are really brittle but fortunately are cheap. Especially if you buy the ones from Dremel rather than Proxxon. For heat-treating operations I made a "tin can furnace" from instructions all over the internet. Can be used indoors on a flat brick, costs almost nothing. Got to remember that boric acid trick. Well done.
Thanks for the tips! I'm on the look out for an MF70 for fine work, as I think it might fill a gap my mill currently can't quite do. Would love to know more about how useful you find it. The tin can furnace sounds like a good approach, as my current furnace loses a lot of heat into the open. The boric acid trick is a standard horology technique, and is covered in a lot of watch and clock making books. Clickspring covered it really well in his videos, which is my main inspiration here.
The MF70 is no Bridgeport. It will accept tooling with approx.1- 2-3 mm diameter shanks. In fact the collets that come with the mill are 1, 2, 3 and 3.2 mm (1/8") but it is possible by diligent search to find end mills that will fit it. The Proxxon endmill set is very expensive and a bit of Search work is worth the trouble. I have pushed this mill beyond its limits. I have no room in my shop for anything bigger. It is agony to face a 40 mm square piece of flat steel with a 3.2 end mill. But I did it . I think that within its limits the MF -70 is a nice piece of gear. Especially when you are limited for room.
@@juanrivero8 From what I've read the MF70 collet is the same system as Proxxon use in their drilling and grinding tools, so would be the same as my little drill, and would accept the same tooling.
Interesting. If you shop around the internet, you can find a lot of tooling with 3mm shanks. I have some 2mm, 2.5mm, 2mm ball end tooling in solid carbide that I am very pleased with. I can also chuck Dremel tooling, which is a lot cheaper than Proxxon. Maybe not as good so I regard the Dremel stuff as expendable tooling. The MF70 qualifies as a Very Small Mill. I have no room for anything bigger:)
I usually just put the lead screw in the lathe and then run a thread file on it. It's a lot quicker if you have the right file with the correct thread pitch. But this was still a very cool video on how to make a die.
I found your tempering method interesting. I am a woodworker and sometimes forge my own tooling. I find it easier to temper in my wife's cooking oven. Light straw is usually around 400 deg F. Check your material data chart. Check oven with a thermometer first and let it soak for about 20 - 30 minutes. you can also throw a test piece in and check it that manor. A word of warning, make sure you have removed all the oil from your part. If you fill the kitchen with oil smoke, your survival may be in question.
Tempering in a bed of brass chips seems to be a common traditional method among horologists. I was using this method as I've seen it used in a number of videos about clock and watch making. As you saw in the video, it didn't go all that well. :) I'll certainly try the oven technique at some point, though I may have to wait until the oven is already hot, as it seems wasteful to heat up a large cooking oven to temper such a tiny tool. Thanks for the suggestion!
Great stuff Alistair, Well done!! I particularly like the simplicity of your jig idea for cutting the slot. FWIW, I've got an old Aussie made P&N die that's not only split but features a tiny grub screw that forces & holds its gap open. The real beauty of this grub screw arrangement is it acts as a fine adjustment stop so the die can just be used as a chaser. Out of all the dies I own, regardless of their sizes, this is the only one with this particular feature. regards Colin
Thanks Colin! I'd love to know how they cut the thread for that grub screw. Since I made this video I've used die wrenches with much finer adjustment screws, which give much finer adjustment of the die depth, and I'm considering an upgrade to my tailstock die holder to make it easier to control the die depth of cut.
I have had great success using 3 flute end mills. A lot of chatter is occurs because the cutter can react against the opposite side. This works VERY well with facing cuts.
That's the great thing about having a fully equipped shop.. Tool doesn't exist? I guess we will just have to make one! Awesome! I loved the dremel setup as well.. A dremel drill is definitely one of my favorite tools! In many situations, they are able to make what seems like a big problem seem insignificant!
Nice work. Contrary to your belief , I liked the hinge idea for the up and down motion as you advanced the piece closer to the cutter . Good job. Glad it turned out well for you.
Well done ! -- clear & understandable, can i offer the following -- Drilling the three holes , make a "pin" like a top hat to fit the center hole The flange - file away in three places then place in hole & proceed. Tempering -- Get a thick ( ish ) block of steel ( in the case of your die say 10 mm thick-- not critical but dont go too thin ) heat the block up realy hot & place die on block . watch the colors & quench -- this gives even heating & slower/ more control over proceedings. But -- nice one sir !
I first saw the boric acid/alcohol paste on Clickspring. Same for the tempering in brass shavings. I may have to try it next time I heat treat a small item. You might be well served to make a mini forge with a couple soft firebricks and your mapp torch. It would hold the heat in the part much better and more evenly.
One thing I noticed about people who use tap and die is you turn a quarter turn turn back to get rid of chips and repeat that way your tap doesn't get damaged or your stock more likely to be because its softer
Hi Alistair. Great work on the die (and the tap beforehand)! It's good (instructive) to see the challenging moments as well as the plain-sailing moments. LOVED the slitting fixture :-) Cheers, Craig
The Proxxon tailstock has a short B12 taper with no tang, so it's holding power isn't very strong. I have used the technique you suggest on a larger lathe successfully, but not on the Proxxon.
heres one method i use, ill put the tap in the keyed drill chuck (cant be a keyless, youll see why in a minute) and get it good and tight, then ill keep the chuck key in the chuck, and position the chuck arbor in the tailstock so that the key rests against the compound. they chuck key then becomes a kind of dog to "drive" (hold) the tap and i turn the lathe chuck to thread teh part. if its a particularly tough part to thread, ill put an adjustable wrench on the jaw to turn it.
Hi, thanks for the shout out on your community post. Just enjoying it this video, and noticed you promise a card at 3:23, and one doesn't appear. The video is in the suggested list below, so I'll go watch to that next..👍
No problem, your videos definitely deserve more views and subscribers than you've had so far. Glad to be able to send a few your way. I just checked the card at 3:20, and it's there for me. Weird that it didn't appear for you. It's timed to appear just before I mention it.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Just checked, and on my PC it is fine - just my phone. Wouldn't be the first time it'd done something odd. All the best.
I’m new here and thinking of buying the Proxxon pd250e lathe. Have you done a review with pros and cons etc. I saw the quick change bolt you made and was wondering if there is much more you would do? I’m often told ‘buy nice or buy twice’ and don’t mind the extra cost if I don’t have to mess around with the product too much. Proxxon seem to have good support and back up so that’s a huge plus for me over some others. Can you please direct me towards where you might have done a critique. I’m pretty impressed so far. I like how you are not shy about revealing your errors, much to learn from that as well. Thank you so much.
Over the last couple of years I've been trying to gather evidence, and really understand the tradeoff between a cheap Chinese lathe and a Proxxon. It turns out to be quite a complicated decision though, as it's not as simple as the build and quality. The PD 250/e came finished to a very high standard. I was able to use it straight away, and I've never had to make significant adjustments to it. However it is a very light machine in terms of available motor torque, and the weight of the major components, which is a limitation that can't really be improved. It's pretty clear from my videos that my Chinese lathe arrived in terrible, unusable condition, though some suppliers do sell very similar lathes to a higher standard. However, the various parts of the Chinese lathe are very solid. If I view the Chinese lathe as delivered as a kit, then it's entirely possible to use it to build a lathe that is much more capable than the Proxxon, as it's bigger, heavier, and more solid. The downside is the 100s of hours of work and learning required to get there. Obviously this makes no sense commercially, or for anyone who just wants to start making projects, but for a hobbyist with lots of workshop time and desire to learn it would make a lot more sense.
Also, you have engineers thumb nail. I have the same thing. Years of damage to the bed of the thumbnail leaves streaks in the nail :) It's like a badge of honour.
@Just1Guy Metalworks yeah it great though I am disappointed a bit, was hoping to be able to make a full set myself than have to own tap or die to make the other one
I am a toolmaker and unfortunately this guy is a hack and knows enough to call himself a DIY backyard wannabe. Do not use his techniques as most are wrong.
Just a small note about your grinding a slot on 26:15. You should have feed the die from the bottom, not from the top. If the grinding wheel binds, and it can because you are feeding material on the back side, it will lead to real bad disaster.
fwiw ; boric acid mixed with water is used as an eye wash under certain conditions. very very well done, i have always wondered how dies were made, now i know. thank you for a very interesting and instructional video.
The only warnings I found were against breathing in the dust, so the gloves were mostly because of the alcohol. However I'm not qualified to tell people what's safe, so in videos I err on the side of caution.
Maybe it's a regional thing or maybe it's an industry thing. Z-axis and Zed-axis were terms I heard growing up from my Father (a tool maker machinist) and were terms used in Math and Engineering courses I took. (I'm from the U.S too)
That worked great! I love the trick with the steel wool, never thought of that but I'm remembering that for the next time I have to heat treat a small part!!
Well done! I've made some taps, but never a die. A couple of questions: - Can isopropyl alcohol be substituted for denatured alcohol in this application (mixing with borax for a flux)? - What about an angled lead for the die? Maybe it wasn't necessary in this application, since you were just cleaning up threads. Thanks!
I'm nut sure about Isopropyl for this application, but I'd guess it would work as all that's required is something to bind the boric acid into a paste. The die would definitely need a tapered lead to be able to start a thread, which I assume would be created by grinding after hardening. For a die this size it would be pretty difficult.
I just had a thought in passing - hinges for fire doors tend to be better quality than cheaper ones and the best quality hinges have washers or even tiny bearings and so will have less slop than a cheap hinge - one of the these may give more accuracy for a similar job. I notice that hinge looks to be quite a good one but some are absolutely terrible - for example I can't imaging that operation turning out well or safely with the average hinges iIhave lying about in my workshop drawers :)
Thanks for the comment. I just got lucky when I was making this tap, as I happened to have a pair of brand new, unused interior door hinges. Probably nowhere near as good as the fire door hinges you suggest, but I think easily enough for this die.
Very good and educational video! A shy question though: you have a lathe, so why didn't you just chase the thread with an appropriate cutting tool? A second one: since you were clearly cutting off material when chasing with your die, is there still enough left for the thread? Or did the die more or less elastically reform the profile?
There are a couple of reasons why I didn't try chasing the thread. 1. The screw is very long and thin, and not really suited for fitting in a chuck, or support via a tailstock. I also don't have a steady, so I couldn't see a way to get it held rigidly enough in the lathe to make it safe to machine. 2. Given the length of the thread, even a very small deviation in the thread pitch (either on my lathe, or the original thread) would mean the alignment would drift, and the thread be damaged. The main damage to the thread is that the peaks have been mushroomed and rounded. The material removed by the die is the sides of the mushrooms, so the thread is not as pointed as it was, but the pitch diameter is still basically as it was.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Thank you, these are a lot of good arguments. My questions were biased by my own equipment (steady rest, electronic lead screw - any pitch you want). I admire your patience to go through all the work and build a cutting tool, congratulations!
Great video! I would recheck that there isn’t a gross misalignment between the threaded rod and it’s accompanying components. The worst wear appeared to be mainly diametrical which implies the mating member was originally located too low. Great work!
Thanks! I'm pretty sure I understand how the thread got damaged, but I'll also carefully check the alignment when it all goes back together again. There is a ring attached to the shaft with a pin, which keeps the lead screw fixed, and ensures that the nut moves along the screw, moving the slide. This pin sheared, the ring and pin started to work their way down the screw. The broken pin pressed against the outside of the thread, and mushroomed the points. Thanks for the tip!
Nice, but you should get you a small oven like Efco 150 for heat treading with an electronic thermometre or a ramp controller. And you did not use cutting oil on you most important cut, the tread screw. But interesting to see what can be done on the small Proxxons.
In all my videos I put details of the materials I use in the description. I made the die from BS1407 Silver Steel, 20mm precision ground round bar. It's a general purpose tool steel that is very easy to get hold of in the UK, and easily good enough for this tool.
very nice, perfect and clean work with utmost care... keep it up bro.
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For drilling the three holes I would have thought of printing the top view of the CAD design (with center marks) and stick it on the die. Would have that been a correct solution? Thanks.
This would work, but it relies on being able to accurately align the diagram on the part, and then being able to accurately line up the drill with the marks on the diagram. Both of these are harder than they sound. The advantage of using the chuck on a rotary table is that it ensures all three holes are exactly the same distance from the die centre, and the angles between them are exactly correct too. This is certainly more accurate than my ability to align the drill with a diagram by eye.
Thanks, that would definitely have been essential if I wanted to cut new threads, but I don't think it mattered too much for chasing an existing thread. I'm not certain whether it would be better to cut the taper before hardening, or try and grind it later. Either would be pretty fiddly dealing with a thread of this size.
I'm certain it wasn't an ACME thread. The points may have looked flattened at some points, but at the ends where it was less worn the thread form was clearly pointed. The flattened areas had been squashed into that shape by wear and abuse.
Great to see, really interesting, never done quenching with water, was surprised not to hear the pinging sound of the steel letting go. Impressive video👍
Idea with the hinge is brilliant. You need to sharpen Die using abrasive drill bit, and make relief angle like when you make tap. just using angle plate or so and drill press or mill
First time viewer. A very interesting process, but is it fair to call it a die? I suspect that it more of a chaser than a die, as it has no lead in taper to be able to initiate a thread on a length of rod. Fair enough, it was made to chase an existing damaged thread rather than cut a new one from scratch, and it seems to be doing the job it is intended for quite nicely. Thanks for the video.
A good point, and you may well be right. Tools like this seem to be called Thread Chasers or Chaser Dies interchangeably in various catalogues, so I'm not even sure what the correct term is. I may yet grind a lead taper and relief, probably just as an exercise.
Enjoyed your video very much. Not a lot of babble, just information and the camera/editing work were first rate. Great job and thanks for taking the time. BTW, loved your hinge fixture for using with fragile thin cutoff wheels ! QUESTION: Is "Silver Steel" the same as Stainless or s-5 or s-7? I've made engraving chisels out of S-5 and quench in oil WITHOUT swirling it in the oil and it the oil will self temper for chisel use without the swirl.
hear that ladies, a tool makers clamp to get a better grip on the shaft . . . . . lol , good to see you chasing the tap in with the stock and a center, nice spring loaded center btw
Beautifully filmed. A most interesting approach. Depending on your resources putting the part between centres and chasing the thread with a single point tool might have been easier. Still, great work with the tools on hand. Thanks for posting.
I know this is an old video but given the included angle of 55 degrees, sounds like a bsw thread. "British standard whitworth" Measured in threads per inch like imperial threads but with 55 degree included angle instead of 60 like imperial threads and also i beleive the courser pitches have a radius at the root and tips of the thread.
If you buy some Mechanic's drills (Stub drills) you will have less flex from the drill because they are only half length, and you can get them with a split point which helps prevent them from walking. You can also get Drill point end mills rather than square end, which might help, but I think you would need to have a very rigid machine or the point would probably chip-off if the mill is carbide.
I love the way you describe your thought processes, it's like hearing your inner monologue.
If the legendary David Attenborough was an Adventurer with a very small lathe. Love your channel! This video was incredibly satisfying to watch.
SO many great little learnings packed into one little project, and nicely explained! Whether one needs to make a tap or not, this is worth watching just to learn a LOT of little tips, tricks, and better ways to do things. (Just a few: why and when to use a spotter drill, not a center drill. Leave the plastic on the end mill. Drill bits are for/better at making holes in X situation; end mills in Y situation, BUT think about these things too which is why you need to actually use BOTH to make ONE hole in a particular, unusual situation. Which you wouldn't do (and would probably screw it up) if you didn't know & think about several characteristics of each! Etc....) THANKS for a great little tutorial.
Your attention to detail is amazingly impressive
Small thin sections of silver steel should be hardened & tempered in oil,
water can sometimes be too harsh/cold and crack the object.
What about the burrs on the thread after end milling the holes and de burr’ing?
I checked the data sheets for BS1407 Silver Steel before I did this project, and they said to quench in water, so that's the procedure I followed.
I have to say, your dremel fixture setup was brilliant. I always fear breaking out that tool as it's the time I always think to myself, "this is where I turn a nice professional looking part into a garage hacked together looking part."
I found the Demel / brass hinge set-up to be a stroke of genius. Nothing to be ashamed of there. Your vids are interesting, informative and relaxing. Always learning something. Thanks for the post.
Thank you so much for a very nice technical video. Try this little trick on for size, (from an old Machinist/Tool & Die Maker/Welder/Designer 40 years, retired disabled over 10 years ago.) Put your lathe in 1/2 back gear...In other words, pull the gear handle, but don't pull the pin. That will lock your chuck spindle, if you're going to use a tap handle. On another note, put your tap into a chuck, morse tapered into your tail-stock. Use your spindle chuck key to turn your stock and the chuck on the tail-stock for holding your tap. In this case, don't tighten your tail-stock. At first, lean into it to start the thread. Then just turn the chuck 1/2 turns using your chuck key to turn your stock. Don't use tapping oil...use Crisco Vegetable Shortening instead. You'll break far less taps this way! You'll also find you can power-tap using Crisco. When close to the end of the tapping session, finish by hand and then reverse on back out, after you come to a complete stop, or you'll pop your tap! (If you're tapping Aluminum, use Terpentine as a cutting oil.) You made mention, that your work wasn't supported from behind, when in the divider head chuck. I had a plastic sectional box of WOODEN parallel bars, that I used for this very purpose. Be it in a chuck or in a machine vice, my work was always level. If it got drilled into, so what. It would still work for some things. When it was shot, all it was, was a piece of oak I had machined in my spare time. Chunk it in the garbage and grab another one out of the box. That would take care of your support problem. Also, that was a Kewl jig you came up with, using a door hinge and a Dremel tool, to cut your slot. Here's something you can do, when you're hardening something...crush up a bunch of Walnut Hulls. Then crush up the coals from a wood fire. Don't take it all the way to a powder...that's explosive! Just down to granuals. Mix the shells and the carbon and DRY play sand and put in a metal bowl. Dig a shallow hole in the center, a tad larger than your part. Heat to a dark yellow or light red, whichever works best for your equipment/application. Then lay your part in the hole and immediately scoop more mix over the part. Then pour more dry play sand over it. (this holds the heat and allows the Walnut shells to inject the carbon into the open pores of the surface of the metal.) Forget about it for an hour. Using tongs, reach in and get your part. You have just CASE HARDENED it. Now heat IT up just before red and drop it in oil. This hardens and gives a memory. Then heat it in a shop toaster oven, on about 175 degrees for about 20 minutes...and then let it cool to room temperature on it's own. You just annealed it. If it's TOO hard, it will be brittle, and will break! The annealing takes the brittle out of it. Thanks again for posting a great video!
Excellent stuff. I recently inherited a mini-lathe. It was completely covered in grease. Using your videos I was able to take most of it apart and clean it. Now I’m just watching video of things you’ve made. Very fascinating!
I LIKE This channel. Watching stuff being made on a lathe, mill, (and sandblasting, which you don't) ... is very fun -- especially of the highlights at fast speed. It's hypnotic. Thank you.
I enjoy videos of people making things. My primary occupation is in a military firearms factory, and work with mills, drills, CNC machines, and lathes. My hobby is restoring acoustical talking machines and making the cylinder records for early two minute machines. My father makes miniature steam engines so has small lathes and mills. Thanks for a nice video.
A really good video, all processes clearly described without unnecessary commentary, very useful for me as I also have a Boley watchmakers lathe needing feed-screw renovation. Thanks.
Making a tap and die? What a courageous effort! Great work. You are my hero! I love the detailed technical explanations and lessons from experience you are passing on. Great stuff!! Keep them coming!
At least you own your mistakes and not editing them out. Good man. Thats how we learn
My tiny Proxxon MF70 micromill will chuck a cutoff disc and I use that when I can. Cutoff discs are really brittle but fortunately are cheap. Especially if you buy the ones from Dremel rather than Proxxon. For heat-treating operations I made a "tin can furnace" from instructions all over the internet. Can be used indoors on a flat brick, costs almost nothing. Got to remember that boric acid trick. Well done.
Thanks for the tips! I'm on the look out for an MF70 for fine work, as I think it might fill a gap my mill currently can't quite do. Would love to know more about how useful you find it. The tin can furnace sounds like a good approach, as my current furnace loses a lot of heat into the open. The boric acid trick is a standard horology technique, and is covered in a lot of watch and clock making books. Clickspring covered it really well in his videos, which is my main inspiration here.
The MF70 is no Bridgeport. It will accept tooling with approx.1- 2-3 mm diameter shanks. In fact the collets that come with the mill are 1, 2, 3 and 3.2 mm (1/8") but it is possible by diligent search to find end mills that will fit it. The Proxxon endmill set is very expensive and a bit of Search work is worth the trouble. I have pushed this mill beyond its limits. I have no room in my shop for anything bigger. It is agony to face a 40 mm square piece of flat steel with a 3.2 end mill. But I did it . I think that within its limits the MF -70 is a nice piece of gear. Especially when you are limited for room.
I recommend Pask's "Percy Pig" Furnace as th-cam.com/video/Po9EKcOj1uc/w-d-xo.html
@@juanrivero8 From what I've read the MF70 collet is the same system as Proxxon use in their drilling and grinding tools, so would be the same as my little drill, and would accept the same tooling.
Interesting. If you shop around the internet, you can find a lot of tooling with 3mm shanks. I have some 2mm, 2.5mm, 2mm ball end tooling in solid carbide that I am very pleased with. I can also chuck Dremel tooling, which is a lot cheaper than Proxxon. Maybe not as good so I regard the Dremel stuff as expendable tooling. The MF70 qualifies as a Very Small Mill. I have no room for anything bigger:)
Thanks for the video. Really nice bit of work. Shows what can be done with very little.
Hi from Baku Azerbaijan - Apsheron Peninsula. Good looky!!
Wow, I had no idea my videos got that far! Welcome! :)
I usually just put the lead screw in the lathe and then run a thread file on it. It's a lot quicker if you have the right file with the correct thread pitch. But this was still a very cool video on how to make a die.
Very nice sir what can you tell me about the borx What you got in acid is mix
I don't know a lot about borax. I just learned to use it for heat treating from other videos, and from watchmakers books.
I found your tempering method interesting. I am a woodworker and sometimes forge my own tooling. I find it easier to temper in my wife's cooking oven. Light straw is usually around 400 deg F. Check your material data chart. Check oven with a thermometer first and let it soak for about 20 - 30 minutes. you can also throw a test piece in and check it that manor. A word of warning, make sure you have removed all the oil from your part. If you fill the kitchen with oil smoke, your survival may be in question.
Tempering in a bed of brass chips seems to be a common traditional method among horologists. I was using this method as I've seen it used in a number of videos about clock and watch making. As you saw in the video, it didn't go all that well. :) I'll certainly try the oven technique at some point, though I may have to wait until the oven is already hot, as it seems wasteful to heat up a large cooking oven to temper such a tiny tool. Thanks for the suggestion!
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe You can always cook some food in the oven (with tin foil over it) on the bottom shelf when tempering !! 😉
Great stuff Alistair, Well done!!
I particularly like the simplicity of your jig idea for cutting the slot.
FWIW, I've got an old Aussie made P&N die that's not only split but features a tiny grub screw that forces & holds its gap open.
The real beauty of this grub screw arrangement is it acts as a fine adjustment stop so the die can just be used as a chaser.
Out of all the dies I own, regardless of their sizes, this is the only one with this particular feature.
regards Colin
Thanks Colin! I'd love to know how they cut the thread for that grub screw. Since I made this video I've used die wrenches with much finer adjustment screws, which give much finer adjustment of the die depth, and I'm considering an upgrade to my tailstock die holder to make it easier to control the die depth of cut.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe I'll email you some photos of my die which should give you a much better idea than me trying to explain it.
Good tip with using the parallel to make sure its square. I was just thinking about how I might do that today.
This was an awesome watch! Thanks for sharing. And what a nice narration you have to it all. Just enough at the right time, etc. Excited to see more!
I really appreciated the content and presentation of this video. Thank you!
I have had great success using 3 flute end mills. A lot of chatter is occurs because the cutter can react against the opposite side. This works VERY well with facing cuts.
Interesting, that sounds very promising. I'll have a look for some 3 flute end mills.
That's the great thing about having a fully equipped shop.. Tool doesn't exist? I guess we will just have to make one! Awesome! I loved the dremel setup as well.. A dremel drill is definitely one of my favorite tools! In many situations, they are able to make what seems like a big problem seem insignificant!
Very well narrated. Professionally done. Thank you.
Love the hinge idea! Great way of controlling the cut
Nice work. Contrary to your belief , I liked the hinge idea for the up and down motion as you advanced the piece closer to the cutter .
Good job. Glad it turned out well for you.
nice use of the door hinge .. very good
Very well done. A great combination of art and craft. Luckily you had some great tips from other craftsmen as well. What a great community.
Well done ! -- clear & understandable, can i offer the following -- Drilling the three holes , make a "pin" like a top hat to fit the center hole The flange - file away in three places then place in hole & proceed. Tempering -- Get a thick ( ish ) block of steel ( in the case of your die say 10 mm thick-- not critical but dont go too thin ) heat the block up realy hot & place die on block . watch the colors & quench -- this gives even heating & slower/ more control over proceedings. But -- nice one sir !
very good video. solution for non standard threaded dies
I love the hinge mount!
I first saw the boric acid/alcohol paste on Clickspring. Same for the tempering in brass shavings. I may have to try it next time I heat treat a small item. You might be well served to make a mini forge with a couple soft firebricks and your mapp torch. It would hold the heat in the part much better and more evenly.
One thing I noticed about people who use tap and die is you turn a quarter turn turn back to get rid of chips and repeat that way your tap doesn't get damaged or your stock more likely to be because its softer
Yeah, I do turn my tap back, but I go too far beforehand, and don't do it often enough. It's a knack I need to work on.
Hi Alistair. Great work on the die (and the tap beforehand)! It's good (instructive) to see the challenging moments as well as the plain-sailing moments. LOVED the slitting fixture :-) Cheers, Craig
Thanks Craig! I'll try and always include the mistakes and problems, as for me they are the most interesting parts of the videos.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe They are certainly the parts with the most learning potential. Cheers, Craig
I've simply used the jacobs chuck in the tailstock to hold taps while threading holes. It works very well.
The Proxxon tailstock has a short B12 taper with no tang, so it's holding power isn't very strong. I have used the technique you suggest on a larger lathe successfully, but not on the Proxxon.
heres one method i use, ill put the tap in the keyed drill chuck (cant be a keyless, youll see why in a minute) and get it good and tight, then ill keep the chuck key in the chuck, and position the chuck arbor in the tailstock so that the key rests against the compound. they chuck key then becomes a kind of dog to "drive" (hold) the tap and i turn the lathe chuck to thread teh part. if its a particularly tough part to thread, ill put an adjustable wrench on the jaw to turn it.
What a wonderful job!
Great work! And really good video work. Love it!
Hi, thanks for the shout out on your community post. Just enjoying it this video, and noticed you promise a card at 3:23, and one doesn't appear. The video is in the suggested list below, so I'll go watch to that next..👍
No problem, your videos definitely deserve more views and subscribers than you've had so far. Glad to be able to send a few your way.
I just checked the card at 3:20, and it's there for me. Weird that it didn't appear for you. It's timed to appear just before I mention it.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Just checked, and on my PC it is fine - just my phone. Wouldn't be the first time it'd done something odd. All the best.
I’m new here and thinking of buying the Proxxon pd250e lathe. Have you done a review with pros and cons etc. I saw the quick change bolt you made and was wondering if there is much more you would do?
I’m often told ‘buy nice or buy twice’ and don’t mind the extra cost if I don’t have to mess around with the product too much.
Proxxon seem to have good support and back up so that’s a huge plus for me over some others.
Can you please direct me towards where you might have done a critique. I’m pretty impressed so far.
I like how you are not shy about revealing your errors, much to learn from that as well.
Thank you so much.
Over the last couple of years I've been trying to gather evidence, and really understand the tradeoff between a cheap Chinese lathe and a Proxxon. It turns out to be quite a complicated decision though, as it's not as simple as the build and quality. The PD 250/e came finished to a very high standard. I was able to use it straight away, and I've never had to make significant adjustments to it. However it is a very light machine in terms of available motor torque, and the weight of the major components, which is a limitation that can't really be improved. It's pretty clear from my videos that my Chinese lathe arrived in terrible, unusable condition, though some suppliers do sell very similar lathes to a higher standard. However, the various parts of the Chinese lathe are very solid. If I view the Chinese lathe as delivered as a kit, then it's entirely possible to use it to build a lathe that is much more capable than the Proxxon, as it's bigger, heavier, and more solid. The downside is the 100s of hours of work and learning required to get there. Obviously this makes no sense commercially, or for anyone who just wants to start making projects, but for a hobbyist with lots of workshop time and desire to learn it would make a lot more sense.
Hi Alastair. Great video. Thanks. Can't wait to see the next Chinese mini-lathe video too. Mike
Hi Mike, thanks for watching. The next Chinese lathe video is in editing, so I'll get it done as soon as I can.
You sound like richmond from the IT crowd
I do wear black more often than not, but I have never in my life listened to a Cradle of Filth album.
Really really good videos (both tap and die) - great photography, great commentary and production - pretty much all possibilities covered.
Super video; nice presentation.
Thank you. I came from TOT and ABOM to you - enjoy your adventures with the weenie little lathe very much.
Always nice to find new TH-cam channel that is going to be great.
Your dremel hinge slot cutting rig is great :)
Also, you have engineers thumb nail. I have the same thing. Years of damage to the bed of the thumbnail leaves streaks in the nail :) It's like a badge of honour.
Nicely done! It was a tap making video that got me hooked on tool making, and now a die video too 😁! Thanks for the share 😃!
@Just1Guy Metalworks yeah it great though I am disappointed a bit, was hoping to be able to make a full set myself than have to own tap or die to make the other one
Nice work. Your split die doesn't have a locator screw? I've always wondered if small split dies really need one.
Is that a screw used to control how far open the split die is, or something else? I'm not familiar with the term.
Awesome work. I have always admired toolmakers.
I am a toolmaker and unfortunately this guy is a hack and knows enough to call himself a DIY backyard wannabe. Do not use his techniques as most are wrong.
Enjoyed your video. Very instructional
Just a small note about your grinding a slot on 26:15. You should have feed the die from the bottom, not from the top. If the grinding wheel binds, and it can because you are feeding material on the back side, it will lead to real bad disaster.
Thanks for the tip! It was my first attempt at trying this kind of grinding, so your advice is very much appreciated.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Excellent video and the project otherwise. Subscribed :)
fwiw ; boric acid mixed with water is used as an eye wash under certain conditions. very very well done, i have always wondered how dies were made, now i know. thank you for a very interesting and instructional video.
The only warnings I found were against breathing in the dust, so the gloves were mostly because of the alcohol. However I'm not qualified to tell people what's safe, so in videos I err on the side of caution.
one tip: you used wrong thread parameter. need to be p
Nicely done!!
Great camera work and super interesting video!
When you said zed (z) axis, I was like ??? (I'm From the U.S.) Excellent idea to split the die. I've got to remember that one!
Sorry about the language difference. Its a cross we all bare.
Maybe it's a regional thing or maybe it's an industry thing. Z-axis and Zed-axis were terms I heard growing up from my Father (a tool maker machinist) and were terms used in Math and Engineering courses I took. (I'm from the U.S too)
Nicely done, that cutoff jig was clever!
I own small tos mn80 lathe, so I really enjoy your channel.
Lovely video and brilliant job of making the die. Keep up the good work
Good
Nice. Very nice . Thanks for all video's
Righteous! The door hinge is brilliant, loved the narration, great video, subscribing!
Glad you enjoyed it! I was certain that I'd be criticised for using something as improvised as a door hinge, but everyone seems to love it. :)
Ich ziehe meinen Hut vor dieser Leistung
Danke sehr aufmerksam.
Great idea with the hinge !
That worked great! I love the trick with the steel wool, never thought of that but I'm remembering that for the next time I have to heat treat a small part!!
Well done! I've made some taps, but never a die. A couple of questions:
- Can isopropyl alcohol be substituted for denatured alcohol in this application (mixing with borax for a flux)?
- What about an angled lead for the die? Maybe it wasn't necessary in this application, since you were just cleaning up threads.
Thanks!
I'm nut sure about Isopropyl for this application, but I'd guess it would work as all that's required is something to bind the boric acid into a paste.
The die would definitely need a tapered lead to be able to start a thread, which I assume would be created by grinding after hardening. For a die this size it would be pretty difficult.
I just had a thought in passing - hinges for fire doors tend to be better quality than cheaper ones and the best quality hinges have washers or even tiny bearings and so will have less slop than a cheap hinge - one of the these may give more accuracy for a similar job.
I notice that hinge looks to be quite a good one but some are absolutely terrible - for example I can't imaging that operation turning out well or safely with the average hinges iIhave lying about in my workshop drawers :)
Thanks for the comment. I just got lucky when I was making this tap, as I happened to have a pair of brand new, unused interior door hinges. Probably nowhere near as good as the fire door hinges you suggest, but I think easily enough for this die.
Very good and educational video! A shy question though: you have a lathe, so why didn't you just chase the thread with an appropriate cutting tool? A second one: since you were clearly cutting off material when chasing with your die, is there still enough left for the thread? Or did the die more or less elastically reform the profile?
There are a couple of reasons why I didn't try chasing the thread.
1. The screw is very long and thin, and not really suited for fitting in a chuck, or support via a tailstock. I also don't have a steady, so I couldn't see a way to get it held rigidly enough in the lathe to make it safe to machine.
2. Given the length of the thread, even a very small deviation in the thread pitch (either on my lathe, or the original thread) would mean the alignment would drift, and the thread be damaged.
The main damage to the thread is that the peaks have been mushroomed and rounded. The material removed by the die is the sides of the mushrooms, so the thread is not as pointed as it was, but the pitch diameter is still basically as it was.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Thank you, these are a lot of good arguments. My questions were biased by my own equipment (steady rest, electronic lead screw - any pitch you want). I admire your patience to go through all the work and build a cutting tool, congratulations!
Very good video. I learned quite a bit even though I'll never make a die or tap. Learning how to heat treat and temper something was worth the watch.
Great video!
I would recheck that there isn’t a gross misalignment between the threaded rod and it’s accompanying components.
The worst wear appeared to be mainly diametrical which implies the mating member was originally
located too low. Great work!
Thanks! I'm pretty sure I understand how the thread got damaged, but I'll also carefully check the alignment when it all goes back together again.
There is a ring attached to the shaft with a pin, which keeps the lead screw fixed, and ensures that the nut moves along the screw, moving the slide. This pin sheared, the ring and pin started to work their way down the screw. The broken pin pressed against the outside of the thread, and mushroomed the points. Thanks for the tip!
Adventures with a Very Small Lathe The broken pin would explain it too. Keep up the cool videos and stop motion!
Great job man.
My Compliments and... Well done sir.. I understood the whole process and the reasons why. Well done...well done
Awesome project, and now we know, taps before dies.
Excellent work..! From what I could see you hit the temperature pretty much spot on. So that die should cut for good.
Nice, but you should get you a small oven like Efco 150 for heat treading with an electronic thermometre or a ramp controller. And you did not use cutting oil on you most important cut, the tread screw. But interesting to see what can be done on the small Proxxons.
Sadly I have no room for anything that big. I definitely did use cutting oil on the thread, but don't always manage to include every detail on camera.
Always a pleasure to watch your videos, thank you.
tap can be clamped in the drill chuck and with a loose tail stock would be safe enough as a thread follower
Sir..Which material selected for making die... please let me know...
In all my videos I put details of the materials I use in the description. I made the die from BS1407 Silver Steel, 20mm precision ground round bar.
It's a general purpose tool steel that is very easy to get hold of in the UK, and easily good enough for this tool.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe ..sir,can possible to use d2 or d3 material to make die.can you explain HRC of this die..
@@A-jw8dg I'm afraid I have no experience of working with d2 or d3, and no hardness testing tools, so I have no way to measure the HRC.
very nice, perfect and clean work with utmost care... keep it up bro.
For drilling the three holes I would have thought of printing the top view of the CAD design (with center marks) and stick it on the die. Would have that been a correct solution? Thanks.
This would work, but it relies on being able to accurately align the diagram on the part, and then being able to accurately line up the drill with the marks on the diagram. Both of these are harder than they sound. The advantage of using the chuck on a rotary table is that it ensures all three holes are exactly the same distance from the die centre, and the angles between them are exactly correct too. This is certainly more accurate than my ability to align the drill with a diagram by eye.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Perfectly clear. Thank you!
Nice work!
Excellent work, thank you.
Your work was very interesting. But is it worthwhile?
Nice work, one thing I would have done is tapered the thread hole on one side for easier cutting.
Thanks, that would definitely have been essential if I wanted to cut new threads, but I don't think it mattered too much for chasing an existing thread.
I'm not certain whether it would be better to cut the taper before hardening, or try and grind it later. Either would be pretty fiddly dealing with a thread of this size.
Very interesting, very exciting, congrats for making a die!!
Wasn’t the rod repaired an acme thread? You created a standard type taper thread?
I'm certain it wasn't an ACME thread. The points may have looked flattened at some points, but at the ends where it was less worn the thread form was clearly pointed. The flattened areas had been squashed into that shape by wear and abuse.
I have been there. I failed to create relieve behind first 7-9 turns that was quite challenge.
I ended up to keep it as a broken bolt extractor.
Great to see, really interesting, never done quenching with water, was surprised not to hear the pinging sound of the steel letting go. Impressive video👍
Great work Sir!
Idea with the hinge is brilliant. You need to sharpen Die using abrasive drill bit, and make relief angle like when you make tap. just using angle plate or so and drill press or mill
very nice work! thanks Alistair.
First time viewer. A very interesting process, but is it fair to call it a die? I suspect that it more of a chaser than a die, as it has no lead in taper to be able to initiate a thread on a length of rod. Fair enough, it was made to chase an existing damaged thread rather than cut a new one from scratch, and it seems to be doing the job it is intended for quite nicely. Thanks for the video.
A good point, and you may well be right. Tools like this seem to be called Thread Chasers or Chaser Dies interchangeably in various catalogues, so I'm not even sure what the correct term is. I may yet grind a lead taper and relief, probably just as an exercise.
Enjoyed your video very much. Not a lot of babble, just information and the camera/editing work were first rate. Great job and thanks for taking the time. BTW, loved your hinge fixture for using with fragile thin cutoff wheels !
QUESTION: Is "Silver Steel" the same as Stainless or s-5 or s-7? I've made engraving chisels out of S-5 and quench in oil WITHOUT swirling it in the oil and it the oil will self temper for chisel use without the swirl.
Hobby machining at its finest. Excellent commentary
hear that ladies, a tool makers clamp to get a better grip on the shaft . . . . . lol , good to see you chasing the tap in with the stock and a center, nice spring loaded center btw
Beautifully filmed. A most interesting approach. Depending on your resources putting the part between centres and chasing the thread with a single point tool might have been easier. Still, great work with the tools on hand. Thanks for posting.
I know this is an old video but given the included angle of 55 degrees, sounds like a bsw thread. "British standard whitworth" Measured in threads per inch like imperial threads but with 55 degree included angle instead of 60 like imperial threads and also i beleive the courser pitches have a radius at the root and tips of the thread.
If you buy some Mechanic's drills (Stub drills) you will have less flex from the drill because they are only half length, and you can get them with a split point which helps prevent them from walking.
You can also get Drill point end mills rather than square end, which might help, but I think you would need to have a very rigid machine or the point would probably chip-off if the mill is carbide.