How Not to Put Out a Metal Fire - with Steve Mould
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2019
- It's a terrible idea to try to extinguish burning metal with a water or CO2 fire extinguisher. Steve Mould shows why.
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The working principle of a carbon dioxide fire extinguisher is that it starves a fire of oxygen. However, carbon dioxide itself has two oxygen atoms for every one carbon atom, and in the case of metal fires, the burning metal strips CO2 of its oxygen atoms, thereby adding more oxygen to the mix. It's even worse with water fire extinguishers, as when the oxygen atoms are stripped, only hydrogen remains, which is in itself explosive.
The correct way to put out a metal fire is with a Class D fire extinguisher that covers the fire entirely with non-reactive powder
Link to the chladni figures video Steve recommended - • Chladni Figures - rand...
Link to this video without any music - • Metal Fires [NO MUSIC]
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Glad so many are enjoying the video, we had a great time making it! And a quick note - our roof is obviously not tar paper, it's lead. You might enjoy some of the other things we've blown up there over the past 200 years - th-cam.com/video/NC45vREoEOg/w-d-xo.html
I was waiting for a look inside the block of dry ice. There should be some carbon black residu.
Don't advertise your roof being lead - some low-life will come and steal it all.
There is quite a tedious and unpleasant stuff that one will anyway actually encounter in case of dealing with platinum group metals and as once for me it was quite painful experience while thankfully I did lose only small quantity of PGMs so interesting thing to share!
So the thing is that when you deal with melting any platinum group metal(especially palladium!)-the first and undisputed law that you have to always follow:never ever use anything graphite or carbon or any organic stuff to do that:this can and will destroy any experiment,involving PGMs!The thing is that all of them when melt will absorb immediately and vigorously any carbon that touches it's surface and immediately disperse it all over the volume of molten PGM-but upon solidification it will anyway eject all the absorbed carbon from it's lattice!And what I once had just because of wrong setting of the gas torch which made the reducing flame,which obviously means carbon being introduced in the sample which was about an ounce of palladium in my case:I was going to melt down all the palladium beads that I had at that moment on hands-so I was quite satisfied with those melting together and becoming a large nice chunk of palladium..But when I melted everything completely and so stopped applying flame-than came a nasty surprise!So first when it cooled down it cooled down on the surface faster and so started to eject the carbon,spitting and splashing like crazy!As all that mess was getting less and less aggressive after spitting about 1/3 of my palladium-it gradually stopped doing this for a moment and I thought:"damn,at least it finally stopped.."-and in about 2-3 seconds all the thing blown up,splashing and wasting palladium everywhere!Thankfully I didn't get any of shards of hot as f*** palladium in my face,and even afterwards recovered nearly all the palladium and after refining again the whole thing-melted it properly but still that was a mess!And that explosion was just because of reducing flame!And when the splashing died down-and the surface solidified-and surrounded the still molten core of that bead-now when that solidified,and also expelled carbon-it had nowhere to go but as it can't stay in the lattice when solidifying-it simply blown up the entire bead and by the way the crucible as well!
this is why they stopped making slot mag rims , out of Magnesium in the late 60's early 70's and went to chrome.
if the brakes locked, and heated up to the point of red hotness, or the car caught fire, the rims would burst into a really Hot, almost impossible to extinguish fire. saw this happen once, along the Highway, we were in a major traffic jam, when I was a kid back in the 60's the rim was burning like a road flare. the fire crew was there, and just kept spraying the car to keep it from spreading, but had to just let the rim burn.
If you have a large body of water, like a pool, river or the ocean nearby, it's safe to dump burning metal into that, the large amount of water will take away the heat, stopping the fire, but if the amount of water you're putting on the metal is less than about 2x the mass of the metal that's burning, your best bet is a pair of running shoes. Even sand can act as an oxidizer for magnesium it will strip the oxide from silica and turn it into silicon metal.
That sounds like still a bad idea, but it does make sense from a chemistry perspective just because of water's specific heat capacity.
Let's start a magnesium fire on the roof.
What burns better: magnesium or roof tar? I would think there may have a discussion with the fire marshal after this video was shot. :)
@@gregt4202 I would have thought (even before the explaining comment) that they thought about that and had a reason to do it.
let´s start a rooffire on magnesium!!!!
We don't need no water 🎵
....No seriously, no water! What do you want? To burn this mother'fer down?
Best method is dumping damp sand on burning magnesium. Used it loads of times in steel making plant where they use magnesium to remove the sulphur from the steel.
If you'd like to know how you should put out a metal fire: use a class D fire extinguisher. There are several types, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisher#Class_D_dry_powder_and_other_agents_for_metal_fires
The approach seems to be to use a salt that melts and forms a coating that smothers the fire, most commonly sodium chloride. Other options are available.
Safety tip: looking straight into burning magnesium can damage your eyes ;)
how?
@@matrix2678 extremely extremely bright
Yup uv Ray's. A very energetic fire or arc - see weilders blindness...I had it mildly once...plasma tourches are much worse than d.c. electric arc...wrong sunglasses..trip to the e.r.
One thing I used to love to do when I had access to lots of magnesium turnings is to put a pile on top of a mound of snow.
You start the magnesium burning and it will slowly start to melt the snow. When it melts enough and the burning metal begins to shift, you get a good flare up and it melts through the snow very rapidly. There's a real nice glow coming out of the snow and lots of popping. It could be dangerous if you did a huge amount but the channel that melts helps keep it contained.
Decades ago, one of my semester final exam questions in first year chemistry was on why using water on burning magnesium was a bad idea.
Interesting vid, i would like to see what would happen if you poured sand on the metal fire.
It would be worth mentioning that magnesium not only produces a very bright white light but also ultraviolet light, it may not be especially good for your eyes if one sets fire to metal on a regular basis without using some type UV eye protection as well.
Wikipedia says sand extinguishes Mg but I will say that a Mg-SiO2 thermite can be used to produce silicon and MgO so IDK how effective it is. Have sand on you IG and start by throwing just a little on Mg fires
Now show us how you can use metal to put out a metal fire.
Look up class D fire extinguisher. They use metal to put out metal fires
You can use wet sand to put it out I suppose.
key word: wet
Nice explanation. Reminds me of old declassified videos on the subject of plutonium turnings catching on fire and being extremely difficult to extinguish.
You should be wearing welding googles for these demos as these fires, especially the Mg fires, gives off lots of UV which cause a "sunburn" and damage your eyes.
the best short video on this channel
Maybe a parking lot or spot in the yard would make more sense than the rubberized roof of a building. I imagine that the inside of a fume hood would have been far safer...
It's a lead roof, so pretty safe with the insulating mats and the RI is in central London, you probably don't want to be starting metal fires in the street...
F1 wheels are made from magnesium. That’s why they burn so well if they catch fire and why the extinguishers at a track are dry powder.
Large components like magnesium wheels will not catch fire like powdered magnesium. They are magnesium alloys, not pure magnesium. In addition smaller pure magnesium particles provide a larger surface area for ignition. Bulk magnesium doesn't catch fire easily.
Liofa. No it doesn’t, but when it does get going it goes quite well.
@@mickcoomer9714 The radiator support bracket in a new aluminum body Ford F150 is magnesium as well. When my neighbor's Chevy Silverado pickup caught fire while they were on vacation, the fire department and I discovered that the transmission bell housing or one of the large support brackets was magnesium because boy did that burn bright white and leave a divot in the asphalt of the road.
Large chunks will burn. It is just easier to ignite turnings with their larger surface area to volume ratio.
Where's the source of that info ? or is that internet fact ?
@@Kabodanki I believe the gearboxes of some London Buses ( probably Routemasters) had a very high magnesium content and would burn. I think the fire brigade learnt they needed to have a couple of Class D Fire Extinguishers on their appliances. In the old days it was easy to identify class D extinguishers as they were a different colour. Then the EU made us paint all fire extinguishers red. Hopefully on the 1st January we will be able to return to sensible marking for fire extinguishers.
Dude! I've learned that a while back. Look for the Houston for work factory fire back around 2000. They were spraying water then the magnesium lit and blew the up
So did the magnesium fire inside the dry ice leave carbon deposits behind ? To bad you didn't show us the "aftermath" of that last experiment :)
Yep it did (see above) both MgO and C deposits, agree a shame not to show but edited out. Always show it when part of a demo lecture.
I learned all about firefighting at US Navy bootcamp. We call metal fires class delta. The only way to really deal with class delta fires is to jettison the burning metal
I watch the smoke , drift twords you...to live longer check the weather , always be upwind..across is second best...also I like the ground not the roof...sometimes you need to run...I like two highways of escape..very clear paths...no trip hazards nothing in the way nothing ! Bravo. Goode luck
"I've got a piece of wood here"
secondary students: *IT'S A SPLINT SDFDGBFH*
If I remember correctly can use PKP extinguishers on a Delta correct?
I saw a video of firefighters putting out a burning car and I was like “no, hell no”.💀
beautiful blue!
Magnesium fire on the roof: Its a bit like fireworks! Derp!
The whole point of burning magnesium in dry ice is that afterwards, you can see all of the carbon deposits, why didn‘t you sho that?
Did that last bit produce much soot? Did it leave lots of carbon deposits behind or is it pretty much negligible?
Yep when you open up the cooled dry ice block you have a lot of white magnesium oxide along with black carbon
Is it kind of a thermite reaction happening between co2 an magnesium?
That's what I was thinking. It seems like a similar reaction.
Awesome
To take this video one step further, if you are going to cast metals make sure your moulds and all tools are completely dry and free from water. Heat the tools, heat the charge material to dry them if necessary. Pouring liquid metal into a damp mould can also result in a hydrogen explosion.
A friend of mine works in IT. One of his jobs was on a steel plan, they melted scrap metal that was stored outside. In Sweden,. In winter.
Snow+iron+iron smelting temperatures equals a decent size explosion.
And that was normal operation.
@@57thorns 😆 That would be awesome to see! My husband and I love to see things go boom.
@@celtgunn9775 All he noticed was a boom and occasionally the buildings around would shake a little. There is a reason people are far away from the mill when loading.
It's not usually a hydrogen explosion, it's simply the water boiling into super heated steam. For a hydrogen explosion you need either an alkaline or an alkaline earth metal from the first 2 columns of the periodic table but, with the exception of magnesium, they are rarely cast. I agree it's a good idea to keep your tools and molds free from water, or you will get splattered with molten metal.
0:24 such as after looking directly into magnesium fires for extended periods of time without proper eye protection
Metal burning is always super disconcerting. Like instinctively metal always feels like something that shouldn't be able to burn.
so surely use of any type of dry chemical on a D fire would be dangerous?
what will the oxygen-stripped atomic carbon do next? is the inside of dry-ice crucible charred with soot after the fire?
Yes, it is. I can't remember offhand which, but another RI video (a full lecture) shows the same reaction and the carbon deposited inside the dry ice.
thanks! Pls, hit me up If you'll remember later what lecture it was.
Other commenter pointed out that bunch of CO (carbon monoxide) should form during this reaction. That makes sense, since there's no guarantee that both of the oxygen atoms from CO2 will get stripped.
@@Czeckie, found it. th-cam.com/video/ti_E2ZKZpC4/w-d-xo.html for the initial reaction, th-cam.com/video/ti_E2ZKZpC4/w-d-xo.html for the examination of the end products.
fume hood? nope ... just take it up to the roof. bloody brilliant fire safety
What if magnesium and naphtha was mixed together in a concoction that they had an ignition source to set it on fire and that could possibly create Greek fire that could potentially burn on water and intensify in water
Science is FUN!!!!
Argon could be used as a fire extinguisher
I am an absolute enthusiast when it comes to Operational Heath $ Safety. I Have taken every possible measure to suppress fire when it erupts in my house and workshop. But man metal fires sure make me pucker up.
Nothing like a little NaK in the can 🤣
Were those Grignard-grade Magnesium turnings from Sigma? And do you think Lucky Larry’s eBay grade turnings work just as well in a pinch?
Ha just kidding of course, great demonstration! :D
Okay that's how NOT to put out a metal fire. Now show us how to combat and suppress a metal fire. Never mind the Metal Fluorine fire for that I always recommend a good pair of running shoes.
Stealing a legendary rocket scientist's witty quote is kind of lame... just sayin
I would have though that you would have demonstrated how to actually put out a metal fire.
2:28 *flippin' 'eck* @techmoan
Why don't we use nitrogen fire extinguishers? Risk of asymptotic asphyxiation?
Magnesium will actually burn in nitrogen to produce magnesium nitride. It's the black bits you get when you burn magnesium in air. I think carbon dioxide is preferred in extinguishers because it is less dangerous to humans as you will feel out of breath if you breath it whereas breathing pure nitrogen you would collapse and die before you knew what was happening.
If I drop wood powder can I use CO2 extinguisher after
You can put metal fires out with water, you have to dump enough water on fast enough to remove the heat from the metal. So a squirt from a bottle would not put ot that small fire but up end a five gallon bucket over it would. Other wise an inert gas like Argon will work ,CO2 is an active gas as it disassociates at high temperatures.
Or dumping the burning metal into a lake. Unless it is an alkali metal, then, well...
Firstly to say I live Ri channel and work so understand that I'm not going for the criticism but I have to appoint something. Shouldn't you have used a protective respirator for this experiment? Magnesium oxide can produce metal fume fever and irritations in eyes and nasal conducts. I'm aware that you are a specialist on what you do but shouldn't you at least mention that? Again, no criticism, just protecting future scientists and curious minds that may harm themselves trying to replicate the experiment.
Yup it s science...safety first and second...and hang out by the door / exit...if it smells bad it is ..walk briskly outside
So you should be able to put out metal fires with pure nitrogen, right?
Some metals can burn in nitrogen atmosphere forming nitrides. The best is to use a noble gas like Argon.
Very surprised you did not read a bit before trying the original attempt. Simply consulting a college chemistry text would have told you this. WW II firefighters found they had to use sand to put out incendiary bombs with magnesium. You should have included that in the series of tests. Also, the roof is an intrinsically dangerous place for the experiment because of the scattering of material onto the tar. Usually I enjoy your videos, but this one encourages unsafe home experiments.
Halon should do the trick.
IFSTA , International Fire Service Training Association , Essentials of Fire Fighting second edition. The Fire Tetrahedron , Reducing Agent , Oxidizing Agent , Temperature , Chemical Reaction. VFF Marshal VA. Eng.Co3
What about nitrogen?
Another thing to think about is arc flash. Please, at least use sunglasses or darker lens.
Wich camecalls barn to felament
I want to see you putting out a FOOF fire
And when you've done that, a chlorine trifluoride fire.
1.25 - how not to hold a CO2 fire extinguisher?
Do the safety goggles filter out the high intensity ultraviolet radiation from the magnesium?
Do not put out metal fires with Steve Mould.
BYOO. Bring your own oxidizer.
Adding liquid oxygen to a 400 lb magnesium bonfire is disappointing, nothing happens. Water however gives impressive results.
What fun! But I'll have to think about letting the kids see this one lol
Controlled and regulated fun is safest
And funnest, longest.
Now do it with N-Stoff.
Water seems like a good way. The fuel will run out faster that way.
You can extinguish any sort of fun with Metallica.
Sand doesn’t work either because it makes a thermite reaction.
Hmm, nitrogen fire extinguisher?
Sand puts out magnesium I believe
th-cam.com/video/J60J-g4ifXg/w-d-xo.html
Just a point of order, The fire triangle had been superseded by the fire tetrahedron. This includes fuel, heat, oxidizing agent, and the the uninhibited chemical reaction.
What would a halogenated fire suppression agent do to a metal fire?
Andrew Freeman fine aluminium powder mixed with carbon tetra chloride is supposed to be an explosive
Seriously this guy works for the Royal Institution and he doesn't understand the activity series?!
a a point of fact Steve does not work at the Ri but was guest presenting, he does understand the reactivity series but can understand if in your opinion his explanation lacks clarity
Little boo-boo at the end. CO2. Your model seemed to be C2O? Did I miss something?
Should have been one black and two red.
where in the video?
@@porteal8986 4:16 He refers to the red balls as carbon and the white as oxygen.
Just to be pedantic. Consider hydrogen H, oxygen O2, and carbon. Oxygen likes to think it's a molecule and goes around in pairs. To make water each O2 couple has to be separated and grabbed by 2 H atoms making 2 H2O molecules. One bond broken, 2 bonds made. If you have the right amount of H and O2 nothing is left over. Carbon dioxide is a friendly C joining an O2 pair. One casual bond made, CO2.
@@williammorton8555 Actually, he is referring to the two red atoms as oxygen (4:26), which is correct; however, the white atom he refers to as carbon; carbon is always black. Sort of like sulfur is yellow and nitrogen is blue. Weird how he has a white atom that bonds four times; usually white is hydrogen which bonds only once.
Cue the health and safety wowsers.....
Then burn aluminium to generate hydrogen
I want to see what happens with water fire extinguisher, do not be such a coward.
th-cam.com/video/6t8_1VwaR0I/w-d-xo.html
In WW2 people where apperently advised to use water to extinguish magnesium fires
Greek fire
Need purple k
What is new an not putting water in an Aluminium fire. You don't need a stupid risk assessments for this. It's in all in text books if you pay attention in the 7-8th grade of your chemistry class.
Not in American schools!
;)
And hydrogen is not explosive, it's highly flammable. Explosions require compression but anything flammable can be explosive.
Why in the heck would you test a "metal fire" on a roof? Or at least why not demonstrate how to actually put out this fire in these circumstances?
It looked like the fire was eroding the ceramic tiles with the water demonstration as well. Any location with destructive gravitational potential seems like a terrible place for such an enterprise. This is the type of thing one does over terra firma for a shorter journey to the center of the earth. If this experiment had gone horribly wrong the building would be collateral.
...'for our next experiment, metal fire vs. Tar-Paper roof...'
If it was tar paper, we'd be really worried too. Our H&S officer and lab supervisor confirmed they were lead plates.
The Royal Institution When taught aviation firefighting in the US Navy, we were taught to push it overboard with a forklift as there wasn’t enough PKP powder to adequately smother the fire. Class D fires are a nightmare for firefighters.
This is not your average youtuber channel with backyard experiments that depend 90% on luck for safety. This is The Royal Institution.
Lead plates however? Nasty roof.
@@57thorns
Don't get me wrong. Nothing happened, so who cares.
...but even lead? ...What happens when lead gets warm again...maybe I forgot. It's easy to get confused with all this 63/37 laying around....
Funny how the wind was blowing towards him as well...
is it just me or was this one of the more poorly planned science videos you've seen? how does a science nerd not know to avoid water with metal fires? that's like, the second thing you learn in high school chemistry. also that splatter shield was useless. eye protection is great and all, but if a piece of combusting Mg splatters on your skin it'll do to you what that water did to the fire - light you up like a human torch.
Your job? Youre a fkg youtuber! RI you used to have faraday...can i turn up? Better yet colin furze he could set off some fireworks. Chemical reaction of burning.....omg. He actually said it......
RI THIS IS HOW LOW YOU HAVE SUNK. I COULD TURN UP WITH SOME SPARKLERS NEXT WEEK IF YOU WANT. OUTREACH PFFFFT😙👎
0:31 *aluminum
No, the scientific and non-american word for it is aluminium.
IUPAC disagree
The same guy came up with both spellings, so it doesn't matter which you use