OUR FAVORITE WALKING RED FLAG 🚩ㅣKinnPorsche TheSeries LaForteรักโคตรร้ายสุดท้ายโคตรรัก EP.4ㅣREACTION
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2022
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♡INTRO/OUTRO SONG
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*****
DISCLAIMER
No copyright infringement intended
This video is for entertainment purposes only.
We do not own any of the videos we are reacting to, nor the music we are using. All credit goes to rightful owners.
"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for fair use for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. - บันเทิง
BeOnCloud's caption:
***ทางซีรีส์ไม่สนับสนุนหรือชี้นำการใช้ยา GHB ยาอันตรายนี้ที่อาจจะนำไปสู่การเปลี่ยนแปลงของชีวิตเหมือนตกนรกทั้งเป็น***
GHB ในชื่อภาษาไทยเรา มักจะเรียกว่า “ยาเสียสาว” หรือตอนนี้อาจจะต้องเพิ่มว่าเป็น “ยาเสียหนุ่ม” ด้วย ยาชนิดนี้มีผลออกฤทธิ์กระตุ้นระบบประสาท ทำให้รู้สึกตื่นตัว รู้สึกสนุก มีความต้องการทางเพศที่เพิ่มขึ้น ความยับยั้งชั่งใจลดลง อาจทำให้ไม่สามารถฝืนความต้องการลึกๆ ในจิตใจตัวเองได้จนขาดความยั้งคิด
ทั้งนี้การวางยาหรือมอมยา โดยผสมเหล้าให้ผู้อื่นดื่มกินเป็นการกระทำที่ร้ายแรง เนื่องจากประสาทเป็นส่วนของร่างกาย และยิ่งทำให้ไม่สามารถควบคุมตนเองได้ ทุรนทุราย ทรมาน มีผลต่อจิตใจเป็นอย่างมากยิ่งอยู่ใกล้คนที่รู้สึกดีด้วยจะยิ่งเผลอไผล ลืมตัว ขาดสติ ทำการโดยขาดการยั้งคิด ซึ่ง มีความผิดตามประมวลกฎหมายอาญา มาตรา 295 หรือ 297 แล้วแต่ความเสียหายที่เกิดขึ้นกับกายหรือจิตใจของผู้เสียหาย และหากมีการลงมือล่วงละเมิดทางเพศหรือข่มขืนผู้เสียหาย ก็จะมีความผิดตามประมวลกฎหมายอาญา มาตรา 276 ด้วย
ขอบคุณแหล่งที่มาจาก ...
bit.ly/373nukt
Google translation:
(We don't speak Thai, so this is the best we can do. If anyone has a better translation, we would be grateful if you could share it with us. Thank you for understanding.)
***The series does not endorse or guide the use of GHB, this dangerous drug that could lead to a life-changing hell.***
In Thai, GHB is often referred to as "drugs to lose girls" or may now have to be added as “Drug loses young” because this drug has a stimulating effect on the nervous system. It makes the consumer feel aroused, have increased sexual desire, decreased restraint. The consumer may not be able to resist deep desires in his own mind and lose their composure.
To drug or to mix the drug into liquor for others to drink is a serious act. When intoxicated, the more you can't control yourself, feel tortured, and the drug affects the mind very much. The closer you are to someone who feels good, the more you become unconscious, forgetful, unconscious, act without recklessness. The consumption or drugging of someone else is an offense under the Criminal Code, section 295 or 297. Damage caused to the body or mind of the victim (whether through the act of sexual harassment or rape of the victim) will also be an offense under Section 276 of the Penal Code.
Thanks to the source from ...
bit.ly/373nukt
You should pin 🧷 this comment!
Everyone is talking about the Kinn and Porsche but I'm just here to simp over Jeff and his divine voice and face. I just hope they don't make him the villain.
VEGAS is so Godly why does he need to look so hot (in black and in white). I know everybody going to hate him in the coming eps but I don't care I still love him
I love both of you for standing up to your opinions. I respect both of you for that
Same here
"This is not a regular bar, it's a high class bar"
"Exactly why you should be more suspicious" lmao exactly!
When everyone around you is high-class, it is "sus" 🧐
- Pelin
It's not safe anywhere 😭
~ Salomé
If porche were a girl he wpuld be safe. Coz girls know not to take drink we don't see them pouring
I love how this series in particular raised up such debate between what’s right and wrong. As it’s the main aim of the story. We have to realized the fact that this is a story about mafia world, action, first and foremost, The BL aspect come second i think. Therefore the series will be in grey area or even darker. It wasn’t marketed towards teen, obviously as it was already rated 21+ since the very beginning. With supposedly adult audience, we should’ve known better. If the character or relationship will portray some toxic traits or behaviors we need to come to realization that this WILL inevitably happen and proceed with caution. If the story will be triggering to each individual , it is best to stop immediately. We just need to enjoy the story as it is.
Well said 🤗
Very well summed up. In this story almost everything that is happening can not be taken well in real life but that's the point, it is just a story.
This show will give us an emotional rollercoaster for sure. During this episode we can see subtle things leading us see that there are emotions on both sides. Kinn who is used to being in control is feeling feelings for Porsche and Porsche is remembering the kiss and feeling feelings too (like the scene where he asks Kinn that if Tankhun wouldnt have been mad, would Kinn have taken him back...) and then Kinn not revealing that it was him who asked Tankhun etc. Misscommunication at its finest. And then the scene at the bathroom. Yeah Porsche did threw up most of the drug but was still high and provoking Kinn with his lowered inhibition. At the same time Kinn losing control. I would not call it rape like some say (of course we all come from different viewpoints) but it is conflicting because this all happened before they were on the same level. ( I have done things while drunk that I didn't feel so sure after even when I was the one making the "bad" decisions in the first place so I can relate to a certain degree with porsche. He wasn't the damsell in distress here but also he wasn't on his right mind.) I sense that these two clearly feel for eachother but everything around them (the world around them) just puts more hurdles against them. I'm sure there will be hard times ahead.... And I guess we will see Kinn having issues with how all this relates to his role as the "respected mafia leader-to be". Angst incoming I'm sure of that.
Sorry about my english (but I hope I managed to be somewhat coherent with my ramblings).
Obviosly they have feelings for each other, but it doesn't matter bc a person who you like (and likes u back) can rape you too. Rape or not rape is about CONSENT and someon who is drugged like Porsche is CANNOT give consent because he is not in his right mind at the moment, (doesn't matter if he is the one who initiated, he did it because he is DRUGGED)
@@Dannyzz13o I hope I manage to say what I'm trying to say here, even when my english sucks and I can't use all the right words. They way I interpret this scene is related to the circumstances of the KP-mafia universe. I mean I am watching a fictional story - taking it in how the makers of it are telling it. (If something like this happened in real life my filter would be different.) Kinn shot a man in the first episode, Porsche in the third. This universe is grim and awful (but I don't support killing someone irl). This show was marketed for the adults and ratings are there for a reason. This show is nuance heavy and there is a lot to unpack with each episode. It has its funny moments and I love them but the serious moments impress me even more with all the underlying clues (for example telling us the emotions of the charachters with nonverbal communication).
I just maybe watch this show differently than someone else. I see that the drama is there serving the storyarc. I feel all that happened at the end of ep 4 will be way or another the cause of difficulties for K&P. (How to be able to love, like really love someone in a world like that? )
I guess I'm just watching a fictional story, and leaving my real life out of it. Story vs. reality are different for me. And this comes from a sexual assault survivor. That may affect how I consume my media & interpret it. Everyone has their own understanding and interpretation and that is ok.
Pete and Vegas are a couple, I'm so afraid for Pete, he's very nice, friendly and honestly I don't want him to be with Vegas because he doesn 't deserve such an attitude to himself and no one deserves it, I read the novel and cried , I hope in the series we will be shown a healthier relationship between them and Vegas I need to go to a psychologist
Yes... I'm so afraid to see their relationship. I find Vegas as a character incredibly intriguing, but I think we can all agree that he would certainly not be a good (romantic) partner. And Pete is such a happy fluff ball... he needs to be protected at all cost.
Exactly like you wrote, no one deserves that kind of treatment, so I really hope that if this couple will portray BDSM/or whatever it is they will do, that at least Pete will clearly show consent. Seeing as how Porsche and Kinn are going right now though, I doubt we will get that...
So I'm really anxious as well
(psychologist visits for all of us)
~ Salomé
same Vegas and Pete should nvr b together period.
I wonder how they gonna change it in the series tho ...
@@salomepelin4033 I also hope that if bdsm is present in their relationship , Pete will give explicit consent to this and Vegas will not do anything against his will , but to be honest , looking at the relationship between Kinn and Porsche , I think they will not have a healthy relationship either , Pete is such a cutie I want to hug him, he is mine favorite character in the series
@@salomepelin4033 That's not true tbh. I don't know if u read the last KinnPorsche and Vegas&Pete special chapters, but if u do, you'll see that Vegas is the best bf (out of all of them there). He became so whipped for Pete lol
@@blackwing1379 the main thing is that he became like this after he raped Pete and beat him , if a person did this once , then he will do it the second time and you need to leave such a person , abusers do not change and you do not need to romanticize such a relationship
Thank you for your reactions. I have some comments about this show. But please forgive me for my English.
I think, first of all we should all remember that we are watching a fictional show which has no connection with reality. We all know (especially who read the novel) (although I haven't read the novel yet), that this show is very toxic compared to other BLs that we have. It portrays the mafia world, violence, guns, assaults, etc.
Now I also understand why many people get triggered at the "Bathroom scene". But as I said we should all keep in mind that we are watching a fictional show. This show had so far portrayed so many messed up things. I will jot down few of them like..
1. Kidnapping someone (Porsche getting kidnapped and taken on a boat)
2. Making someone work for you against their will (Porsche being Bodyguard)
3. Killing someone (I think that person's name was Mes)
4. Drugging someone
5. And taking advantage of
I didn't see people getting triggered by first 3. For Porsche having to be a bodyguard, everyone is like "You will get used to it dear"
For killing that man : "It's Mafia, what do you expect"
But for the last scene, many people get triggered. And like I said I understand the thought process of those people. But saying that that was rape or saying that that was hot and seems consensual.. Both are wrong. In my opinion this is a very very grey area (in the show).
Of course what Kinn did in this episode is wrong, but what he did before (First 3 points) was also not correct. But many people enjoy that with the opinion that it's a mafia BL so it is okay. But in real life those acts were also NOT okay in any sense.
For me I always watch series for what they are showing us. Ofcourse many things shown in many shows are not correct. But that's what the storyline is.
Also specifically for the bathroom scene I am waiting to see Porsche's reaction to that. If he feel violated from what happened, I fully understand that. But if he'll be completely okay with that (which in my opinion he shouldn't be), I'll still continue watching the show and love that couple.
Very much agree with everything you said! 👌👌
Good comment. I'am watching a fictional story, that I'm sure will give me a ride through all kinds of emotions. I don't expect unicorns and rainbows with this one. (Those shows are somewhere else). This is BL for adults.
For me the issue is more about how actions should match the feelings for a character to be consistent (which is also educational...showing wrong behavior could be educational too if it's addressed properly ofc)...
A fiction has no obligation to be educational especially when the rating is clearly 'adults only' and it's about mafia so people with abnormal morality standards to begin with...
The thing that I think is well done here is that they clearly showed what kind of man is Kinn, how Kinn is not the type of guy who would take lightly a kiss (he doesn't kiss his sex-friend) so he was shaken, concerned (he asked if Porsche was ok the next day, meaning he knew the kiss shouldn't have happened in that state.. after all he had a few drinks too so even him could feel that he lacked restrain and feel guilty about it which is good)
Through his interactions with Vegas and the other bodyguards' reactions they showed that his feelings for Porsche are obvious to almost everyone around him : Kinn likes Porsche genuinely
So the issue is : if you care and value someone, is it right to have sex with them when they're not in their right mind? NO.
If you don't care much about the person or if you're a rapist like Vegas it's consistent if you act like that but if you like/love him it shouldn't be ok you should know/acknowledge it
For me the music was a representation of Kinn's mental state : he was clearly struggling (Mile did a great job portraying that) and then he gave in to temptation bc he was relieved that after Porsche remembered the kiss he was acting like usual around him, didn't feel disgusted by him, so he thought his feelings had a chance to be reciprocated.. so he didn't stop himself as he should have
Since in the preview they show Kinn the next day with a conflicted/guilty expression I believe they will show that even though Kinn did wrong he's actually aware of his crime and it matters to show that....
Porsche's reaction to it is another issue entirely (people saying 'if Porsche is ok then it's ok' ....victims can be ok bc they don't remember does that mean it was ok to do it? absolutely not! if victims are 'ok' they have issue too) : in BL novels they often show how the victim is 'ok' after a rape 'bc they have feelings for the person' but it's not ok to feel ok about that... so I really hope they will show that Porsche is not accepting it even if he already had feelings for Kinn which like you said was not shown until that point... We only know that Porsche wants Kinn to value him as a bodyguard, he wants Kinn to need him and later that will probably evolve into more romantic feelings but for now for all we know everything is unconscious on Porsche's side so THIS IS NOT OK
If Kinn do apologize and explain, Porsche can maybe understand it was a mistake and that Kinn regrets it and forgive him but he doesn't have to...we know they end together so I hope it happens that way.. if not the script is bad
Also like someone said, if you want to really do things right in real life situation, he should have taken Porsche to a doc or at least not stay alone with him if they guessed the drug was of that nature...but yeah those kind of plots go scandalous first chance they get (-_-;) nothing we can really do right?
It was interesting how the bodyguards reacted : Ken and Big don't like Porsche so they just wanted to stick to the habitual plan when Porsche was discovered, which is 'boss is priority. we must escort the boss to a safe place' ... but then Kinn told them to get out... even tho Pete and Arm, worried for Porsche, stayed in the room and offered to take care of him so Kinn could have trust them with Porsche but he didn't. Why? Bc he was genuinely worried to the point where he didn't care about showing his concern in front of the bodyguards who'll know right away that his behavior was unusual : Kinn should know better right? Having potential spies in his team and Vegas around he should be on guard 24/7 and hide his feelings... but he wanted to be sure, to take care of him himself which is 'good'... but also bad bc he's putting Porsche in danger and obviously keeping at least Pete around in the room would have been safer to resist his own weakness
I just loved the way you guys stand strong for your opinion and I agree that the bathroom scene is definitely not consensual.
However, I got no problem on how the scene is portrayed. Cus personally I perceived the bg music as very sad, which leads to it portraying the scene as a tragic one. Which makes sense as we got to see Kinn tried to stop both of them but failed. It didn't make him guiltless, but I think it is enough to make him deserve to be portrayed not as a villain who is purposefully doing it like Vegas, but just as a human being who tried his best but failed to resist a very strong temptation.
The situation is not as dark as the original novel where Kinn forced the whole intercourse even when Porsche begged to stop. In this it's basically two people who cared for each other and tried to progress their relationship properly but failed due to external factor.
What especially irritates me is that a lot of people compare the way Porsche was acting with kinn and Vegas and assume he was sober with kinn because he vomited but in that way they completely dismiss the fact that ghb the drug has several effects that come at different times and that the drug takes hours to get out of the body. Porsche experienced several side effects and the effects he experienced with kinn were different from the one's he had with Vegas bc of that his reactions were different but in both cases you can see that he's unconscious (with Vegas bc his vision was blurry, he was sweating, experiencing discomfort and that's why he headbutted him with kinn he started to hallucinate and feel euphoric hence the "acting weird" and he started to "initiate things" bc of the increased sex drive) I really hope they show his pov next episode and don't romanticize it.
*Spoiler* in the novel Porsche suffered physically and mentally bc of this and he even tried to commit suicide he was in a wrong headspace and thought that he had no one to talk to he was disgusted with himself and kinn and kinn tried to assault him again.
Shut up Karen
L ratio
He was asking for it
I love the show and your reaction 😂, I also loved the reaction you guys had when seeing Bible, I am excited for VegasPete, as much as people say they don’t want it… I actually wanna see their story being all toxic, I’d prefer if they do tone it down a little bit like they did with KinnPorsche in this episode but for the most part I want it to be toxic and angsty. I am someone who enjoys fiction for what it is and don’t apply my morals to it since I’m watching the show to entertain myself with the characters drama, not watching a documentary on how to have healthy relationships. I just know VegasPete is not a story for the weak hearted, I know hells gonna break loose when we get to that part 👀 so I’d definitely recommend anyone watching to stop watching if they get triggered easily.
i totally agree with you!
i mean let's not forget that this is just a show, they re actors, they all are acting , this is just for entertainment purposes, we don't need to be so serious about the fictional characters,(ofcourse I strongly stood against with this situation in real life) but than let's not forget at the end of the day we are watching fiction and the makers has already warned from very beginning that the content of this show is gonna be strong unlike other bls we have been watching! so let's just appreciate there work because the whole cast and crew has done really hard work to make it possible and this so far the best bl series i have seen!
and i agree that this series is not for weak heart.
let's just wait and enjoy😅
I appreciate be on cloud post about the drug. It was educating and shows they actually care. I feel conflicted too, but so excited to see how Pete outsmart Vegas at the end. Oops I spoiled something
@@doridorothy Not really, you didn’t say how it went down so I wouldn’t call it spoiler but I’m excited to see how the show handles it and hopefully they don’t butcher Vegas’ complexity
That last scene just doesn't makes sense from the start. Like, boy You don't even know exactly what and how heavy Porsche was drugged. HE COULD'VE DIED FROM IT!! GO GET HIM A DOCTOR FIRST NOT A SHOWER!! LOL
Hello guys, about Jeff (Kim) singing, he was singing live because hes a singer under warner music thailand. He sings veryyyy well
That man is so talented 😫😍
~ Salomé
OMG I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE YOUR ENDING COMMENTARY the way you guys stand strong for your opinion ahhhhhh you got my support ♥
I just recognized about you two since Ep 2 reaction, you guys love Tay so much. Every time when I watched reaction videos,u guys always say “He’s so beautiful” “This guys is so pretty “ and this makes me smile when i know that u two loves him the way i was. Agree with u gurls, Us is rlly beautiful in person too T T
He really is such a sweetheart, I'm looking forward to seeing more of him
Thank your for this intelligent ending commentary. Please keep it up 💕
I read all your comments in response to others, thank you so much for joining the discussion. Much appreciated!! 😊👍
~ Salomé
Ah! Kimchay! My cute couple. They make me so happy.
ชอบรีแอคของคุณมากค่ะ ให้ความรู้ด้วย ติดตามแล้วน่ะค่ะ🇹🇭😍
ขอบคุณมาก! ฉันขอขอบคุณมันมาก 🥰
(ฉันขอโทษ ฉันพูดภาษาไทยไม่ได้ ฉันเลยใช้ Google แปล ฉันหวังว่าข้อความนี้จะสมเหตุสมผล)
~ Salomé
I wish Kinn let the bodyguards to take care of porsche. It's messed up how he took advantage of porsche.
100% agree. This would all have been so much better if 1) the bodyguards had taken care of him, 2) he would just have been medically taken care of, like please bring him to a hospital, 3) Kinn wouldn't have taken advantage of him.
There were so many other, better possibilities...
~ Salomé
in the second episode, we were shown that u Kinn has a doctor for bodyguards if necessary, so why couldn't he take Porsh to the doctor or call him to the hotel for help
Exactly!! How hard is it 🙄?
~ Salomé
@@salomepelin4033 honestly , it seems that it 's easier to reduce everything to sex between the characters than to write a script of gradual rapprochement between partners , I didn 't even watch the series because I felt uncomfortable watching it
15:42 Fun fact: The actor who plays Kim (Jeff Satur) is actually a singer first before he became an actor. 😉
Yeah, he's so talented 😫😍💛
~ Salomé
Episode 3 and 4 make KinnPorsche highest rank # 1 Worldwide on trend twitter already
I'm really glad to see rhat their efforts are paying off 😍
~ Salomé
The first caps you were like " i mean this is soft" then cap 4 came
FUNNY WHEN YOU SAID THE MUSIC NOT MAKE ANY BETTER😅😅😅😂😂😂 I AM CRYING OUT LOUD COZ GAY THING
(Hi! my first language is not English so sorry if I spelled something wrong. 😊)
I agree with everything you said, like, we don’t have to agree with everything that happened in the series, but we can still enjoying it at the same time. And is good to discuss what the series try to show us or where the series try to lead us to. I very agree on the part that Porsche doesn’t show his fealing yet, and it’s interesting what he gonna do next, as well as Kinn feeling about what happened that nigh.
I think this series has already show responsibility about the story, they show us that they have the potential to make thing clear as possible (like the information about drugs or changing the toxic part). We can enjoy what happened in the series and discuss what the problem part is, and respect people who work behind this by not say “it’s just a series” because they (all the team who work on this series) serious about it as well.
Thank you so much for putting in the effort of writing us in English, I really appreciate it!! 😊
I'm really glad to read your comment. I was nervous about whether our views would be mad at the things we said... but I do think it's still very important to point problematic issues out anyways.
As you wrote, I think it will be crucial to see how Porsche reacts to what happened in the next episode. I really hope he will speak up about this being wrong... (although I doubt he will...)
I wonder how Kinn felt? Because at first he looked disgusted but then he still responded to the advances... so I'm a bit confused about that.
I am sure that the cast and team tried their best to make this show happen, so I don't want people to misunderstand: we do really appreciate this project. The production quality is over the top and I'm so happy they changed the plot from the novel. (It already makes it so much better.) Still, when there are things we don't agree with we point them out :)
~ Salomé
นึกว่าไม่มาแล้ว สนุกจ้า🌺🌺🌺🌺
ขอบคุณที่สนุกนะ! ฉันขอโทษถ้ามันไม่ดี ผมใช้ผู้แปล :( (Papago)
-Pelin
8:15 oooh, nice syncronized head tilt there. thank you for your reactions~
I didn't even realize 🤣🤣
I'm so happy you saw and wrote us about this 🥺🥺 it's really awesome when people notice the little details
Thank you so much for watching and commenting 💛
~ Salomé
This episode is speechless, OMG
I'm glad u pointed out the difference between the Vegas and kinn scene. For Vegas it was shown from Porsches pov the screen is all blurry but for kinns scene it was shown from kinns pov. Probably if they showed from Porsches pov it'll make the audience understand that man was out of his mind high. I'm not criticising the actors cuz they were amazing but I'm disappointed at the portrayal of the scene.
Excellent analysis!! Now that I think about it, I totally agree about the sift in perspective. That explains the change in mood so perfectly.
I wish we would see Porsche's perspective next week. That would at least help show that what happened really wasn't right.
I was also telling Pelin after filming that this was just disappointing... I expected better. I'm hoping that we won't get this sort of romanticized abuse again, but after two strikes I'm a bit doubtful...
Like you wrote, I'm not criticizing the actors. I'm assuming they portrayed their characters as they were supposed to. The whole scene was shot beautifully too, so the production team really did a great job there. But yeah... I wish it would have happened differently...
~ Salomé
@@salomepelin4033 also I just don't understand the need for a s3x scene at this point in the story at all. Like alot of ppl are saying that this scene is a trigger to their relationship and I disagree. I feel the kiss is enough for Porsche to understand Kinn's feelings and ponder upon his own. Also I'm so surprised that so many ppl don't see any issue with this scene and think it's hot? I really hope it's just them thinking it's ok cuz it's mafia and NOT because they don't understand it's dub-con/ non-con.
I agree with you girls your reaction was the most genuine! Porsche was in NO way able to give consent...and I feel that is an opportunity for the show to educate people and further for people to discuss this in a constructive way. I am looking forward to how the story will unfold...
We all know the series, it's supposed to be dark and twisted. But when we see so many people romanticizing that scene and finding it super hot, it is a problem and people are failing to see THAT. It made me feel uncomfortable. Porsche looked drugged and childish. I feel like Porsche had a change of heart once he realized about the kiss, but that doesn't change things. Kinn is being portrayed as someone who does things differently with his people, so yes, I expected better from him. This just put him in the same shelf as Vegas, it's a different approach, but the same in the end of the day. I'm happy to see you addressing this.
Shut up Karen me find scene hot
@Evelyn Clarissa Yes, if you want to tell us Kinn is already having feelings for Porsche at this early stage (which really hasn’t been earned through storytelling yet) that’s fine but why would expressing affecting involves having sex with someone poisoned by a dangerous drug. Porsche needs a DR not sex. It’s why mafia have their own private Drs on call 24/7. Telling us someone who loves you has sex with your drugged out body while you’re ill is Rape Culture - show it as that, NOT affection.
Having sent his men away before hand we already knew he was going to have sex with Porsche seeing him in that state so it makes more sense for Kinn to just go ahead and have the sexual interaction - again, on a man who is under the influence and clearly not in his right mind. Why the Director and even some fans feel they need to remove Kinn’s accountability and place ANY accountability on the Drugged Person in order to romanticise this scene (with romantic music and softening/filming methods) is why many fans are confused and outraged. Not because of sex.
They didn’t play romantic music and give us beautiful, slow-mo, soft-focussed cinematography in the scene when Kinn shot a man dead or when he presided over a man being beaten up by his bodyguards. Why even try to soften violence Only when it involves sexual assault? Either you’re having sex with someone who’s not in a position to consent or you’re not. Why not let Kinn just go ahead and have the sex without trying to finesse us with all the irrelevant gaslighting?
This crew has clearly taken on a more complex theme than they have the depth or vision to pursue and this feels very exploitative of BL fans who waited years for this adaptation tbh 💕
And that scene was so much worse in the novel...
Porsche was asking for Kinn to stop, more than once.
(And keep in mind, it was Porsche 's first time with a guy...)
This still looks wrong, as Porsche wasn't in his right mind, since he was drugged... but that scene in the novel was terrible
i feel what you say, but i think they try to follow the book as much as possible that is why we see theese sceans as it would not be kinnporsche otherwise and we would not get to se their relationship progress, and porsches and kinns story is like that in the beginning, i hope it become better in the future.
I'm tired of the "is a mafia series so it's ok" yeah I get it, but just because is a mafia series that does NOT mean it's ok to rape!!, I'm not against them showing rape scenes but them portraying it like it's somenthing romantic. Look how they portrayed Vegas almost raping Porsche as something bad and Kinn doing the same as something good. (it was a good scene and the most realistic in a bl I have ever seen, but it would have been A LOT BETTER if Porsche wasn't drugged) What does that tell me?? That its ok to be raped if is someone you like?? You can say that Porsche initiated but he was DRUGGED FOR GOD'S SAKE, HE IS NOT IN HIS RIGHT MIND BUT KINN IS!!. And even so when I watched the episode it didn't bother me because I know what's right and wrong but what DOES bother me is people saying it wasn't rape??? What is wrong with you all?? Even Be on Cloud themselves spoke up and said they don't approve the drug use
I was looking at the lamp and reflections too.. don't worry we're just focusing on the 'plot'
Vegas is too sexy for his own good and his jawline could cut glass. Kinnporsche knew what they're doing, the whole cast is freaking gorgeous. Lowkey him and Porsche looks good together no offense to kinn coz Porsche looks amazing with kinn too, threesome😅🤔 maybe idk?
Porsche is such a well written character, he's funny, considerate, exudes hotness and apo is perfect embodiment of the character.
I totally agree with the last scene part, not the scene but how it was romanticized with music and things. People needs to see this reaction.
I really love your reactions guys, It's really funny and even when you guys critcal about something you guys are respectful which I like. N I can never get tired of saying this I really love the thought captions.
I really like ur reaction and ur opinions about that ‘bathroom scene 🎬 ‘ it’s definitely counts as dubious-consent (or even rapes) bec. Porsche is totally influenced by drugs. So I do feel the same that when they started playing that piano instruments and everything is kinda make me feel like they’re romanticized sth. they shouldn’t.
I also like the way you point out those 2 scene comparing one scene that Porsche was lying on the bed with Vegas trying to sexually harass him which you can tell that they portray this scene out as sth. bad and disgusting to do so. but in the other hand with Porsche and Kinn in the bathroom which is exactly same situations but the way they portray that it out is just completely different.
I think yes, this scene was beautifully shot, the lightning, acting, cinematography and everything is such a masterpiece which you can enjoy watching it. but what Kinn did to Porsche isn’t sth. acceptable and we shouldn’t feel romantic about it
Ps. Love ❤️ ur video.
I'm really relieved to read that you agree with us on this. I saw so many people being so happy about their sex scene and it's incomprehensible to me...
I don't understand how what Vegas does is considered wrong but when Kinn does it it's somehow alright? I wish Kinn would have stopped it or that the show would have made it clear that it was not a romantic moment... the only thing I hope for now is that Porsche speaks up about it next episode and tells Kinn that that is not something he should have done (although I doubt we will see that)
I totally agree with what you wrote. Thank you so much for your comment
~ Salomé
I vehemently disagree. It's NOT "exactly same situation"!!! First of all Vegas did NOT sexually HARASS he ASSAULTED Porche. Secondly, he drugged, kidnapped and tied Porche up! Ignoring his protests to touching, kissing and sucking him against his will. Let's not loose sight here please. As someone who has been sexually assaulted these blanket, unnuanced opinions regarding sexual assault is really upsetting. Not to mention counterintuitive! Consent is about self-agency. Vegas didn't give Porche an opportunity for choice. PERIOD. IT IS NOT THE SAME!!!
I do completely agree with that Vegas and Kinn acted differently and had different moral burdens. Like you explained, Vegas is the one who harmed Porsche, put him in that situation to begin with, and forced himself on him against his will. Kinn in contrast wasn't the one who initiated it. Still, Kinn put himself in a position in which he was responsible for Porsche and his well-being, and abused that.
Yes, for sure, consent is about self-agency.
Porsche being drugged and high out of his mind though doesn't seem like he was in control of his actions nor of their consequences. I guess this is arguable but I don't think Porsche was in any state to give consent.
So yes, the two situations were not the same. It's definitely true that I should have had a more nuanced approach to these scenes. Thank you for pointing that out and explaining it further.
To conclude though, (I'm not sure if this was your point so please let me know if it wasn't) I still don't think that Kinn not being "as bad as" Vegas makes Kinn's actions right. He was still at fault and took advantage of Porsche when he should have taken care of him instead.
~ Salomé
@@salomepelin4033 Thanks responding and engaging. In regards to Kinn, I think, based off what we saw of Porche's behaviour and the circumstances, Kinn was irresponsible and criminally stupid!! To expand on my previous point I believe in short consent is will/want/desire and the freedom of ageny to say no whenever and for whatever reason without fear of repercussions. Would there have been repercussions By Kinn for Porche had he said no? I don't believe so. In regards to my other qualifiers I wait to see Porche's reaction next episode to form an opinion as to whether there was consent. The will and desire is there from Porche. This drug enhances/heightens desire not creates desires and with the context we have we know Porche desires Kinn. Did Porche have the cognizance and thereby agency to definitively say yes or no??? I wait to see how Porche feels about it. Drug tolerance varies and interpretation of behaviour is subjective. Hence the need for nuance.
But considering all these variables Kinn was beyond stupid do what he did.
there's nothing dubious, a person under the influence of drugs is in no position to consent therefore it's SA
I have issues with the ppl minimizing it and romanticizing it just bc tjis os a dark show. Enjoying dark themes in fiction means actually letting dark themes be dark, not romanticizing them. I hope the show will address the violation bc the intercourse itself was portrayed romantically and it's why so many ppl are trying to romanticize it as well.
Tepkileriniz bir harika size bayıldım.💜💜💜💜💜💜
💛💛
~ Salomé
Listening to your opinion I agree and having an opinion about The show even if it’s bad isn’t actually a bad thing and I also feel maybe some people didn’t take deep thought about those things and director or whosoever wrote or directed try to make it romantic so it feel less toxic but it didn’t work , in my point of view it is wrong and human do wrong sometimes. wish they had made as it was wrong to the viewers or delete those scenes with music to something rough and make it as it is wrong. ( they can use that music in actual feeling romantic time)NO HATE TO KINNPORSCH and also it my fav show at the moment and apomile did great job with other cast
Yes, agreed! Just because we don't agree with certain parts of the show does not mean we hate it or the actors/production team. The production quality of this show is amazing and I am sure the entire team put their whole hearts into this.
However, we still need to point problematic issues out when they arise. I hope everyone understands this :)
Thank you for your comment!
~ Salomé
I love your reaction about this episode. My reaction was the same when I was watching this. I prefer a consent kissing and all things. Even though the scene are so beautiful and the actors are so great! I hope the series will point the bad things about rape and drugs more.
Btw, I love Tankun so much in this episode lol. Also Kim and Porchay are so damn cute!!!! I love the chemistry between them.
i think they have to keep this part from the novel because it's a huge part to what will happen next but atleast they tried to make it somehow better than the novel... the novel is pure disgusting, porsche kept rejecting kinn but kinn went on while in the Series, his drugged mind rejected vegas but was initiating it w/ kinn.. i hope Kinn will feel guilty in the next episode because in the novel, he's not guilty at all meanwhile Porsche was so depressed
love from Indonesia 😘😍
I wait for every Saturday
Same!! I'm always so excited to watch these shows 😍
~ Salomé
❤️❤️❤️
Yes there was very dubious consent. But the scene was according to the character. Kinn kills people. He's not nice and moral man. He has some good in him? Yes but his moral compass is not " normal" . He used to take what he wants. I'm expecting some character development for the better but Honestly I hope they don't make him all good and fluffy because that's not who he his. Again he has very different and dark morals. The question is can you love someone like that?
hi, thank you very much for your channel, I really like your reactions and thoughts, I'm so glad that I found people who, like me, have registered for this series, to see that someone might like this scene is a shock to me, I personally don't see any agreement and romance in it and agree with everyone in short , what you said , I would like to see the gradual development of relations between the characters and healthy relationships between partners.
I'm so glad you found our video, thank you so much for watching it! I'm also really glad you agree with us, I'm a bit concerned with people being alright with abuse being romanticized...
Definitely agree: I would really like to see some healthy development as well. Let's hope for the best!
~ Salomé
I also didn't see any interest on the part of Porsche in Kinn as a man (partner) and I would really like to be shown how they start flirting or go on a date and gradually realize that they are in love with each other
Yes, love the emphasis here on consent. Especially as a a gay man, it's obvious to me how unrealistic this scene was. Porsche is a virgin, and he would have needed lots of physical and emotional preparation to receive Kinn like that. In real life, Porsche would have been in horrific pain (and in the book he was). I bring this up just to show how romanticized and ridiculous this scene was, in addition to harmful. I love this show despite it's problematic elements, but it's important for us to talk about the missteps that we're taken here. If the show wants to make Kinn a rapist and have Porsche develop Stockholm syndrome and be in an abusive relationship, I think that'd be a brave (if uncomfortable) choice. But they can't show us abuse and sell it to us as romance. The actors are doing a lot to fix the show with their acting skills and chemistry. I still enjoy the show overall and am having fun with it, but oh man do I have some criticisms for it.
Pelin hep başlangıçta Türkçe selam veriyor, KinnPorsche reaction dan buldum sizi KinnPorsche ile olan videolarına bakıyorum, bu sefer yorum bırakmak istedim. Sana da merhaba pelin :) ❤️
Thank you so much for your reaction 🙏
And yes it was very uncomfortable to watch (though beautifully shot) I do feel that it is good that its raising this conversation that this is essentially wrong .
I hope that in the next episode they portray the feelings of the characters truthfully on the matter and not romanticise it .And i like how they did give us some disclaimer about the drug to spread awareness.😊
Thank you so much for your comment too!
I agree: this scene was beautifully shot and you can tell everyone involved tried their best to make it great. Still, I think that if we disagree with what we're seeing, we can point it out without dismissing the production team's hard work. We know they tried their best, and yet this wasn't it...
Like you wrote, I really hope we will get some clearance regarding this scene next episode. That would be great and very much needed. Let's see how they do it!
Them posting a disclaimer was really good, I much appreciated that. I like how they at least educate their audiences about their content.
~ Salomé
@@salomepelin4033 Thanks for the reply i will wait for the next week’s reaction 😃
The dilemma here is that when vegas abused porsche he did not accept and even hit him (in part he was aware), and instead when kinn did it, he continued and even provoked him. So let's say porsche was half conscious, however kinn still had to wait until he was sober
I agree with you guys, that last scene, as much as I love Kinn and Porsche together, was very hard to watch. I think strongly on consent so It’s a no from me. Like it doesn’t matter that Porsche was provoking Kinn, because my dude was drugged. Another way to look at this, is to think about how you’d feel if that was you who was drugged and that happened. I KNOW i just wouldn’t be okay with it.
First, I lose it when you say focus on the plot 😂😂😂😂
Second, all the bad stuff in the series is there for the reason that it bad, like it there for you to know it wrong, and when something is wrong you can't just ignore it, you talk about it being wrong. Am OK with people talking about it being wrong that it shouldn't happen to anyone THAN saying it wrong so it shouldn't happen in the show. Is part of the plot you can't take it out but that doesn't meant is right for happening. I feel like some people can't differentiate b/n a show and reality. I for one was so uncomfortable with the nc and I liked fact that i was uncomfortable. Good reaction b/n.
It's been a very long wait for both of you to react. But was not disappointed with the reaction that occurred in the sex scene. I think it's a beautiful scene and artistically conveyed ost. The piano version used for the accompaniment is also very beautiful. I watched this scene to the point where I had to say OMG all the time my heart skipped a beat. along with screaming out Thank you very much for your reaction. See you in the next ep.
Makin banyak BL Thailand yg go internasional
Series fan discuss a lot about the consent, some said that cant romanticise with the bathroom scene. But some said in Kinn's vision, he might think that Porsche still have some consciousness because he talk about what happened that night. Kinn might think that Porsche know that he feel special with Porches and Porsche want it too so he started to do that(after he calmed himself for awhile). This scene show, at first Kinn doesn't want something like that. Buttt, that's still complicated and not the good way in normally. So, what we can do now is just look forward to Porsche's reaction in next episode. TT ( all the Staff work so hard about that concerns, that so impressed me)
The company obviously didn’t work hard enough. There are no “both sides” when someone is drugged. That drug can even kill people. Doing some performative social media activism after the fact is laughable. BL fans aren’t the idiot fangirls some people seem to think they are 💕
@@stepmaster9988 it's good that this company know that bl fan girl know the fact of using that drug is so harmful. So, they announced about the drug for who didn't know yet. What i want to praise the company is how they combine the unreal mafia novel to series in the most reasonable way but cant agree more about the consent you concerns.
@@js5578 Ok. I think they wouldn’t need the press release at the end if they had done a better job of making clear what the implications of the drug are in the actual episode. Otherwise we can expect a press release every time a man is murdered or beaten in an episode, which they wouldn’t do because that would be equally ridiculous.
@@stepmaster9988 i have nothing to say more than that, bl fan should have their own consideration when they watch this too. And,if they think what the best thing that company can do is still not good enough for them, just leave. Let them decide and watch the company getting low profits, that all we can do rn.
@@js5578 We’re not fighting. There are many BL series that have handled this 1000% better, as original source material as well as in tv adaptations, so I’m surprised they didn’t handle this scene with more care and consideration, especially as gay men who are in all the decision making positions. That’s all. Why can’t we hold them to accountability and challenge them to do better art as we do with women BL creators? What is the reason?
This issue is not about fans who paid good money to watch this series and worked for three years unpaid hyping this OP so these creators can turn that internet data into investment. Why are we holding the fans accountable for creators shoddy work? What is the reason?
I have mix feeling about this series. I’ve been watching BL series since 2019 and this is the most explicit sex scene that I watched in Thai BL series. But it’s not the sex scene that bother me, it’s the use of drug and the fact that one of them is not 100% awake or still under the drug that bother me. I am one of those who really appreciate consent especially in matter like this. And I really hope for a second that Kinn will restrain himself and wait until Porsche is not under drug to do whatever he did. I don’t even want to talk about Vegas, who initially drug and attempted to rape Porsche.
I don’t like it, I really can’t see it romantically. I know there are many series before like LBC and TharnType who also have the same problems and I really wish the next series after that would be different, including this. I don’t know if I want to continue watching KinnPorsche. 🥺
Trust me, there WILL be more darker scene if it will at least stay true to the novel, that probably will be triggering and out of the "norms". So just based on your comment alone, I suggest you to stop watching as you will not enjoy the series.
@@rbs675 thank you for telling me this. I think I will stop watching it here. I appreciate all the actors and their dedication but I think I need to prioritise my own mental health first since these series I watched really sometimes affects my mood even after few days after I watched them.
PS. I will still enjoy Salome and Pelin’s reaction to other series 🥰 and I’m waiting for it. 💚
It's great that you're prioritizing your own well-being! A show isn't worth your trouble 💛
I hope you still have lots of fun watching other shows 😊
Thank you so much for watching our videos hehe
Take good care 💛
~ Salomé
I was hoping they would discuss the drunk kiss properly make Porsche hold kinn accountable but the second drug scene especially making Porsche the bottom is typical sexual assault ,a very common issue happening in the gay community. I feel like the writers need to do more research just saying being 'gay is ok' is not praiseworthy, it's basic human decency.Also it doesn't fit with the theme of the show. They could have tackled this important assault issue using this dark show which would have been really good.
PS Also missing Pelin' s hats. They usually make my day...
Yeah I think they could have tackled it better. Not saying this show needs to be all roses and pink but I think like you said, they should address these scenes with more educative and with a better approach in general. I hope they do that next episode because I don't want this show to be that one show I feel uncomfortable watching...
P.s. Thank you very much 🥰I will definitely show more of my hat collection in our upcoming videos 😂😂 i really am happy to see someone appreciating them as much as I do 🥰 Your comment made my day
- Pelin
What I'm concerned about with some of these blanket comments regarding consent and drugs is this belief that being drunk or high somehow immediately equates to you not having will or agency!! This is a slippery slope of an argument. An excuse often having been used on the other side of the foot. How many domestic violence victims and not to mention sexual assault victims have had to hear these pathetic excuses!!! "Sorry I didn't know what I was doing, I was drunk" BS!!! So therefore clearly, nuance is required when determining consent under the influence.
Consent I believe, in short, is all about will and freedom of self-agency in decision-making to take part in a sexual act. Is there the will/desire/want and are you in the position to have the agency and freedom required at anytime, (for whatever reason), to say no without fear of repercussion. With regards to Vegas and Porche it's obviously no. There is no consent here. Porche has been drugged, kidnapped, tied. His will/desire was ignored despite him making clear his verbal and physical objections to what was happening. And once Porche clearly physically objected Vegas escalated to what was surely going to be punishment of rape. Therefore one scene is not the same as the other!
The scene of Kinn and Porche is different. It's dubious but it is not the same. I wait to see Porche's reaction/thoughts in the next episode. For all we know the use of that particular music is the deliberate direction to implicitly show the audience Porche's mindset to what is happening in that moment. To coincide with the explicit contrast of the lack of objection, (not to mention aggressive initiation), Porche displayed. Hence why I reserve judgement until next episode.
Being uncomfortable with the bathroom scene is of course fine and I'm so happy that we now have a culture where we have the debate. However as someone who has been sexually assaulted, and as someone who has been high and/or drunk when having consensual sex, please STOP with the blanket comments equating being on drugs and lack of consent. It's wrong, unhelpful and counterintuitive!!!
Well it was actually a bad timing I must say?? It was a case of dub-con which I really don’t like at all.
But after finishing series when I finally read novel oh boy oh boy…
SPOILERS
Novel version of Kinn is much more of disturbing than mile’s version of kinn?? I mean in front of NK (novel kinn) and the things he did, MK (mile’s kinn) is far more better??? Atleast he is shown to regret it and ask for forgiveness in later episodes and he shows respect to Porsche that he rightfully deserves… but NK make me wanna go in the novel and punch the living daylights out of him. MK can be forgiven but not NK.
I fully understand why you dont like the bathroom scene. as someone who has experienced SA, aswell as someone who has been extremely drugged up, i dont like the way you said that porsche was defenitly unaware and didnt understand what was going on.
the diference between porsche with vegas and porsche with kinn was that with vegas he couldnt tell who it was, he was obviously uncomfortable and resisting. with kinn he could tell who he was, he wasnt resisting AT ALL, didnt slightly feel uncomfortable with him. i know that this is dub con but im waiting to see how its handled in the next episode.
Yes, agreed: I think how Porsche reacts next episode will be really telling. Right now all I can do is assume and speculate, so I'll be waiting to see what he will say about it when he's not intoxicated anymore.
~ Salomé
Porsche is drugged not drunk. So he knows what he says and does!!
Kinn tried his hardest not to do anything. But Porsche was so seductive!!!
That's just excuses. Being drugged means you're out of your mind, can't consent to sex. It is rape.