When a gentle soul like Dyson, who only has praises for his old friends and colleagues, says anything even remotely negative about someone, you can imagine how incredibly unpleasant and disappointing the entirety of the experience must have been.
Exactly my thought. Took me back a few seconds, Dyson is never negative. Always pleasant. On top of that he could get on well with and say pleasnt things about others who were meant to be difficult.
If you take a look at Freemans history and Oppenheimers family tree, I am 99.9% convinced they are related. Freeman in many of his lectures mentions Oppenheimer right before he died, how he accompanied Oppys wife Kitty back to Japan and knew his mother Ela Friedman. Take a look at some old photos of Robert aswell as Freeman when they are in their mid 20s-30a, they are identical. Not so much theyre the same person but definitely feel their is some kin ship.
@@winnieblews your the dummy. freeman was english while the other was jewish. they had not any relation other then friends and colleagues. in those days, most, if not, every one of nobel winners or physicists of jewish heritage, were supporters and hardcore zionists. Einstein for one visited and gave economical and political support to Israel.
Wow, this was one of the most interesting ones. Freeman Dyson, so kind and generous in his words about anyone (e.g. such praise for Julian Schwinger even though Schwinger didn't make it easy for him to do his work), presents his bafflement and frustration about Oppenheimer in a way that belies what was probably an extremely disappointing experience for him
Just saw the film and there’s a moment where Teller shouts at him that he is more of a politician than a scientist now. Holds true for Oppenheimer post Los Alamos.
Oppenheimer was, by many accounts, not a nice man - I suspect many driven men who achieve things aren't nice. But the recollections here are of a man not interested in physics and leading projects. I am only guessing of course, but Oppenheimer might have been worn down by the administrative and political demands of the Manhattan project. I can sort of see why you'd want little to do with 'leadership' after that. He threw his time into his fame and public adoration as it was much easier and more rewarding. I can't honestly blame him, if that was the case.
I was disappointed that the movie didn’t focus more on the interactions of the scientists and their personalities. The movie loved loud explosions-even when interesting conversations were taking place.
If I could choose to be born with an unusually high ability in something whether it be music, art, literature etc I would choose to have an unusually intelligent mind every time. I wish I could think on the level of guys like this.
I feel like Dyson got the raw end of the deal meeting Oppenheimer after Strauss and Teller destroyed his career in policymaking. He met an Oppenheimer that was probably depressed and seriously questioning his choices to become a physicist in the first place. Sucks for him but hey never meet your heroes.
Not quite. Dyson went to the Institute in 1948, and then joined in 1952. Strauss only became the chair of the AEC in 1953 and the trigger for the hearings that lead to Oppenheimer's clearance being revoked only happened at the end of that year. Here, Dyson is referring to his time at the Institute in 1948.
His love for everything in life except Oppenheimer is hilarious. In every imaginable way he was a disapointment and he kinda started to like him when he was dying, Christ lmao.
Well don’t twist it. Oppie changed towards the end of his life (no doubt because he confronted his mortality) and became more sympathetic. That’s all Dyson meant.
Freeman is free minded. A good soul. May be Freeman wasn't able to tune with Oppenheimrs intensity of action and goals. There wasn't much to share between them in terms of short term goals.
Not really. Oppenheimer was a bombastic and arrogant at time to his students. This is the common reccuring theme from his biography. It's quiet possible Oppenheimer held Freeman back from receiving the nobel prize considering his contributions.
Well worth watching if you are a physics major... I was lucky enough to get to know Teller, Schwinger, Feynman and Boehm fairly well. I think Freeman Dyson's description are remarkably similar to my impressions of those eccentric folks of a remarkable (and VERY amusing) generation, Again, Dyson paints a VERY accurate and colorful description from my perspective. Enjoy .. this never-ending debate ... 🙂
Based on all accounts of this time during his encounter with Oppenheimer, it’s clear that the political strains and difficulties dealing with politicians probably had a negative affect on Oppenheimer which very likely made him bitter. Let’s also not forget that Oppenheimer was also quite ill with colitis for all of his life, then taking into account his eventual cancer from smoking. I think Dyson should give him the benefit of the doubt. Oppenheimer was a genius that was dealing with a difficult situation.
@@stanallen1072 How exactly is it apologetic to acknowledge the fact that Oppenheimer was clearly ill and had his integrity and reputation attacked due to the McCarthy era. I completely reject your reductive view that he suffered just from “challenges”. What he went through would cripple most men psychologically, and that’s not including the incredibly painful cancer that he was suffering from. I guarantee that you’d probably want some compassion if you went through even half of what Oppenheimer went through.
@@nands111 oh trust me, I’m completely aware of the particular reason why there was a disdain. To me it emphasises the difference regarding segregation and desegregation in Britain and the United States. No one is perfect and we all have our faults. Even Freeman himself was wrong an number of things and upset people who considered him unpleasant. But I don’t hold him, nor Oppenheimer with any contempt. They were just people from a different time with different value’s.
we all die and the young always are disappointed with the older everyone talks about what the future holds oppenheimer was clearly a political and administrative scientist and the duties overcame him not the least being accused by congress of being close to the soviets read the book on dirac for an insight into oppenheimer ?
Dyson couldn't do a fraction what Oppenheimer contributed for the first nuclear bomb, listen to the latter's speaches at colleges and seminar's, Oppenheimer sounded like the creator of the universe and the destructor, both at the same in time and space.
In another youtube interview, Freeman Dyson tells us that had the IAS not renewed Oppenheimer's appointment (because of politics), Dyson would have gone back to England and that Dyson had made inquiries about appointment is England, just in case. That would have been a big move to make in support of someone for whom Dyson did not feel a strong friendship.
Dyson was very much a theorist. He obviously was a brilliant man, and many of his theories will be proven over time, but many of them may never be. Oppenheimer was a mix of theorist, experimentalist, cat herder, politician, and most importantly, a realist, which is exactly the mix needed to make the Manhattan Project work. Just imagine someone like Dyson being in charge of the Manhattan Project, they would be lucky to produce a firecracker. Oppenheimer had a burden that no other scientist has ever had to shoulder, the creator of the purely terrible side of a major discovery.
Unleashing the power of the atom was the easy part of the work in Los Alamos. Much harder was making those giant egos work together. That was Oppenheimer's major contribution to the project
Dyson is uncharacteristicically obtuse and ungenerous in his remarks about RO in this interview. His remarks about AA and RO on the subject of ‘black holes’ sounds like the science is a done deal and they were in denial - neither is the case.
@@thesceptic1018 this is common amoung the scientists of the time, though. Dyson is a sweet old man but nevertheless, he hails from a time when insulting a scientist's work and interests was tandamount to insulting the scientist's mother.
comments seem not to be interested in the quest to understand involving human personalities pity everybody knows failure to understand the universe is inevitable but why do the comments not reflect our obvious interest in the genius figures who are also human ?
Book to read: "Reminiscences of Los Alamos". It dose not tell one much about physics bu abou tht edaily life of hte physicists, including Dr. Dyson (nothing bad, but definitely "different")
Einstein did not like black hole because as a Physicist he knew that black hole cannot exist, black holes are a mathematical fiction. The concept of a Singularity is actually a mathematical concepts, there are many Physical laws which would not allow such a thing to exist. It is apparent that Dyson was fascinated by the black hole because he is a mathematician!
so just like in real life, one can be in fact genius material and not see or do the obvious.... i think quite frequently about how much the attitude and character of a teacher/leader matters for a cursive advancement in whatever field... one hears often enough the phrase 'I hated that subject because of the teacher'
I remember teachers who were hated by other students, often because the teacher was trying to get the students to think more deeply than they wished. Thinking is such hard work for almost everyone. Only a few become addicted to it. Perhaps fortunately, because acquiring the data and the concepts to use in thinking is even harder work than the thinking. And there is nothing I find more distressing than to see a person with a Rolls-Royce brain lacking the factual basis and concepts needed to make the engine go somewhere except in circles.
A black hole cannot form, per se; it cannot collapse through the Schwarzschild radius because the time dilation to do wo would be infinite. It can get close, but never make it, anywhere in the body.
@@JonathanSchattke I suggest you read general relativity and it's exposition of time and space being relative. Freeman Dyson believes in black holes and states that Oppenheimer played an important role theorizing the existence. Also did you forget the picture taken of the black hole?
@@nealrutgerskid I have read Einstein's Textbook on it, and learned the Tensor Math to actually understand it. I sincerely doubt you have a clue about either.
@@JonathanSchattke lol.. youtube Einstein. Chump. Though I do agree you cant pass a point of infinity. Evidence suggests black holes exist. I will be the first to tell you I don't understand it. I m positive you don't.
If Dyson didn't like Oppenheimer, he should have met Oppenheimer in the Princeton parking lot and fought it out! 😋 i think Oppenheimer would have kicked his ass! 🤗 Hans Bethe fights the winner! Nuclear physicist fighting match! 🤗
Regarding Oppenheimer( just my two cents): At Los Alamos he was at his peak. After that he started to believe in his own mythos. And when Strauss & co robbed him of that elevated notion ( for the wrong reasons ), he couldn't cope, his ego was not up to that. A very human and relatable trait, most people would have. They build you up and you give them what they want and after that, when they are done with you, they tear you down. How are you even to handle that? And they did it to one of the most insecure and somewhat confused person they could find.
Interesting he says opp was so dogmatic..yet when he talks about black holes…which we still haven’t proven even exist, he cant get over the fact opp wasn’t interested in talking about them…
When a gentle soul like Dyson, who only has praises for his old friends and colleagues, says anything even remotely negative about someone, you can imagine how incredibly unpleasant and disappointing the entirety of the experience must have been.
Exactly my thought. Took me back a few seconds, Dyson is never negative. Always pleasant. On top of that he could get on well with and say pleasnt things about others who were meant to be difficult.
If you take a look at Freemans history and Oppenheimers family tree, I am 99.9% convinced they are related. Freeman in many of his lectures mentions Oppenheimer right before he died, how he accompanied Oppys wife Kitty back to Japan and knew his mother Ela Friedman. Take a look at some old photos of Robert aswell as Freeman when they are in their mid 20s-30a, they are identical. Not so much theyre the same person but definitely feel their is some kin ship.
@@winnieblews oppenheimer is of jewish blood while freeman is european.
@@Norwegianization 🤦♂️ lol yeah youre right, Ive never met a European Jew.
Guessing this is a troll because thats the dumbest thing ive ever read.
@@winnieblews your the dummy. freeman was english while the other was jewish. they had not any relation other then friends and colleagues. in those days, most, if not, every one of nobel winners or physicists of jewish heritage, were supporters and hardcore zionists. Einstein for one visited and gave economical and political support to Israel.
Wow, this was one of the most interesting ones. Freeman Dyson, so kind and generous in his words about anyone (e.g. such praise for Julian Schwinger even though Schwinger didn't make it easy for him to do his work), presents his bafflement and frustration about Oppenheimer in a way that belies what was probably an extremely disappointing experience for him
Just saw the film and there’s a moment where Teller shouts at him that he is more of a politician than a scientist now. Holds true for Oppenheimer post Los Alamos.
"I only liked him when he was dying" LMAO
That takes "damning with faint praise" to a new level.
Great stuff, mr Dyson!
Oppenheimer was, by many accounts, not a nice man - I suspect many driven men who achieve things aren't nice. But the recollections here are of a man not interested in physics and leading projects. I am only guessing of course, but Oppenheimer might have been worn down by the administrative and political demands of the Manhattan project. I can sort of see why you'd want little to do with 'leadership' after that. He threw his time into his fame and public adoration as it was much easier and more rewarding. I can't honestly blame him, if that was the case.
Dyson was very disappointed in Oppenheimer. He didn’t think he, Opp, was interested in black holes, nor did he have the makings of a varsity athlete!
GET DA FUK OUTTA HERE UNCLE JUNE
Openheimmer led at Los Alamos only out of respect for his fatha
Freeman Dyson, brilliant, as always.
I was disappointed that the movie didn’t focus more on the interactions of the scientists and their personalities. The movie loved loud explosions-even when interesting conversations were taking place.
It is interesting to see his admiration for the work of Oppenheimer in black holes despite his disappointment about the leadership of the Institute.
If I could choose to be born with an unusually high ability in something whether it be music, art, literature etc I would choose to have an unusually intelligent mind every time. I wish I could think on the level of guys like this.
@@harryh4398whats the meaning of TH-cam likes? Whats bring it to the table? Nothing. It means nothing.
I feel like Dyson got the raw end of the deal meeting Oppenheimer after Strauss and Teller destroyed his career in policymaking.
He met an Oppenheimer that was probably depressed and seriously questioning his choices to become a physicist in the first place. Sucks for him but hey never meet your heroes.
Never meet you heroes
... If their reputation is based on lies☝️
Not quite. Dyson went to the Institute in 1948, and then joined in 1952. Strauss only became the chair of the AEC in 1953 and the trigger for the hearings that lead to Oppenheimer's clearance being revoked only happened at the end of that year. Here, Dyson is referring to his time at the Institute in 1948.
His love for everything in life except Oppenheimer is hilarious. In every imaginable way he was a disapointment and he kinda started to like him when he was dying, Christ lmao.
Well don’t twist it. Oppie changed towards the end of his life (no doubt because he confronted his mortality) and became more sympathetic. That’s all Dyson meant.
Freeman is free minded. A good soul. May be Freeman wasn't able to tune with Oppenheimrs intensity of action and goals. There wasn't much to share between them in terms of short term goals.
Not really. Oppenheimer was a bombastic and arrogant at time to his students. This is the common reccuring theme from his biography. It's quiet possible Oppenheimer held Freeman back from receiving the nobel prize considering his contributions.
@@nealrutgerskid very much plausible . Oppenheimer was not in the same class as Freeman.
Dyson seemed to be a very kind man with only praise and affection for others..... Except Oppenheimer...
You are absolutely correct
Well worth watching if you are a physics major... I was lucky enough to get to know Teller, Schwinger, Feynman and Boehm fairly well. I think Freeman Dyson's description are remarkably similar to my impressions of those eccentric folks of a remarkable (and VERY amusing) generation, Again, Dyson paints a VERY accurate and colorful description from my perspective. Enjoy .. this never-ending debate ... 🙂
Wonderful man.
Somehow he’s come back in a next life and is wanting to study Black Holes. Maybe Black Holes haunted him more than Dyson cares to recognize.
Thanos should have recruited Freeman Dyson to roast Oppenheimer in the rap battle.
Don't wait until near death to become different.
"I only got to like him a bit later in his life... when he was dying especially." 😂
Based on all accounts of this time during his encounter with Oppenheimer, it’s clear that the political strains and difficulties dealing with politicians probably had a negative affect on Oppenheimer which very likely made him bitter. Let’s also not forget that Oppenheimer was also quite ill with colitis for all of his life, then taking into account his eventual cancer from smoking. I think Dyson should give him the benefit of the doubt. Oppenheimer was a genius that was dealing with a difficult situation.
All true points, but after watching the next video in this series (number 84), you can understand why Dyson has the disdain for him.
Jewish people arn't lliked in general. that had something to do with the whole thing.....
Another Oppenheimer apologist? Why? Everyone has challenges. It's no excuse for not doing your job.
@@stanallen1072 How exactly is it apologetic to acknowledge the fact that Oppenheimer was clearly ill and had his integrity and reputation attacked due to the McCarthy era. I completely reject your reductive view that he suffered just from “challenges”. What he went through would cripple most men psychologically, and that’s not including the incredibly painful cancer that he was suffering from. I guarantee that you’d probably want some compassion if you went through even half of what Oppenheimer went through.
@@nands111 oh trust me, I’m completely aware of the particular reason why there was a disdain. To me it emphasises the difference regarding segregation and desegregation in Britain and the United States. No one is perfect and we all have our faults. Even Freeman himself was wrong an number of things and upset people who considered him unpleasant. But I don’t hold him, nor Oppenheimer with any contempt. They were just people from a different time with different value’s.
a disappointment in every respect, and only came to like him when he was dying. blimey
we all die and the young always are disappointed with the older everyone talks about what the future holds oppenheimer was clearly a political and administrative scientist and the duties overcame him not the least being accused by congress of being close to the soviets read the book on dirac for an insight into oppenheimer ?
@@silent00planet What Dirac book are you talking about?
Dyson couldn't do a fraction what Oppenheimer contributed for the first nuclear bomb, listen to the latter's speaches at colleges and seminar's, Oppenheimer sounded like the creator of the universe and the destructor, both at the same in time and space.
In another youtube interview, Freeman Dyson tells us that had the IAS not renewed Oppenheimer's appointment (because of politics), Dyson would have gone back to England and that Dyson had made inquiries about appointment is England, just in case. That would have been a big move to make in support of someone for whom Dyson did not feel a strong friendship.
It is in this same intreview where he said this.
Dyson was very much a theorist. He obviously was a brilliant man, and many of his theories will be proven over time, but many of them may never be. Oppenheimer was a mix of theorist, experimentalist, cat herder, politician, and most importantly, a realist, which is exactly the mix needed to make the Manhattan Project work.
Just imagine someone like Dyson being in charge of the Manhattan Project, they would be lucky to produce a firecracker. Oppenheimer had a burden that no other scientist has ever had to shoulder, the creator of the purely terrible side of a major discovery.
Unleashing the power of the atom was the easy part of the work in Los Alamos. Much harder was making those giant egos work together. That was Oppenheimer's major contribution to the project
Dyson does not understand what O had been through and was going through.
Dyson is uncharacteristicically obtuse and ungenerous in his remarks about RO in this interview. His remarks about AA and RO on the subject of ‘black holes’ sounds like the science is a done deal and they were in denial - neither is the case.
@@thesceptic1018 this is common amoung the scientists of the time, though. Dyson is a sweet old man but nevertheless, he hails from a time when insulting a scientist's work and interests was tandamount to insulting the scientist's mother.
Freeman Dyson was dead when he say bad things about others colleagues.
the great divide between man and myth!
comments seem not to be interested in the quest to understand involving human personalities pity everybody knows failure to understand the universe is inevitable but why do the comments not reflect our obvious interest in the genius figures who are also human ?
Book to read: "Reminiscences of Los Alamos". It dose not tell one much about physics bu abou tht edaily life of hte physicists, including Dr. Dyson (nothing bad, but definitely "different")
Einstein did not like black hole because as a Physicist he knew that black hole cannot exist, black holes are a mathematical fiction.
The concept of a Singularity is actually a mathematical concepts, there are many Physical laws which would not allow such a thing to exist.
It is apparent that Dyson was fascinated by the black hole because he is a mathematician!
And yet, they do exist.
@@Willaev Black holes-yes-but there is no good reason to believe that there is a singularity inside a black hole, however!
What physical laws are you talking about?
@@sourav7162 the reason behind Lorentz Transformation
They have been proven since 2019.....
He came to life and it was Deepak Chopra
so just like in real life, one can be in fact genius material and not see or do the obvious....
i think quite frequently about how much the attitude and character of a teacher/leader matters for a cursive advancement in whatever field... one hears often enough the phrase 'I hated that subject because of the teacher'
I remember teachers who were hated by other students, often because the teacher was trying to get the students to think more deeply than they wished. Thinking is such hard work for almost everyone. Only a few become addicted to it. Perhaps fortunately, because acquiring the data and the concepts to use in thinking is even harder work than the thinking. And there is nothing I find more distressing than to see a person with a Rolls-Royce brain lacking the factual basis and concepts needed to make the engine go somewhere except in circles.
Cursive?
@@fwcolb The problem there is a failure to allocate educational resources to them.
Maybe Freeman should have led the project. Yet Oppenheimer had the praise.
Well of course not: it wasn't life or death, it didn't matter to him.
Long live democratic socialism and freedom
Oppie was totally burnt out by the time he met Dyson
lol. Apologists everywhere!
It's because they couldn't reconcile them and faced something they had discovered but couldn't understand and they hated that
A black hole cannot form, per se; it cannot collapse through the Schwarzschild radius because the time dilation to do wo would be infinite.
It can get close, but never make it, anywhere in the body.
What?
@@nealrutgerskid reality can't pass an infinity; every point in space must be in reality.
@@JonathanSchattke I suggest you read general relativity and it's exposition of time and space being relative. Freeman Dyson believes in black holes and states that Oppenheimer played an important role theorizing the existence. Also did you forget the picture taken of the black hole?
@@nealrutgerskid I have read Einstein's Textbook on it, and learned the Tensor Math to actually understand it.
I sincerely doubt you have a clue about either.
@@JonathanSchattke lol.. youtube Einstein. Chump. Though I do agree you cant pass a point of infinity. Evidence suggests black holes exist. I will be the first to tell you I don't understand it. I m positive you don't.
Jealousy here, big time!. You weren’t there to talk about black holes!
Imagine showing off how much you know about things you don’t really know (climate change denial moment)
'Richard Feynmans donkey shadow'
Do u mean dyson
He's really jealous of Oppenheimer. Sad man.
He's really not jealous. He's generous in his praise of Fermi and Gell-Mann for example. Why would Oppenheimer pique his jealousy?
Hollywood
If Dyson didn't like Oppenheimer, he should have met Oppenheimer in the Princeton parking lot and fought it out! 😋 i think Oppenheimer would have kicked his ass! 🤗
Hans Bethe fights the winner!
Nuclear physicist fighting match! 🤗
Regarding Oppenheimer( just my two cents): At Los Alamos he was at his peak. After that he started to believe in his own mythos. And when Strauss & co robbed him of that elevated notion ( for the wrong reasons ), he couldn't cope, his ego was not up to that. A very human and relatable trait, most people would have. They build you up and you give them what they want and after that, when they are done with you, they tear you down. How are you even to handle that? And they did it to one of the most insecure and somewhat confused person they could find.
Really, I think having met many of 'that crowd'....that you are REALLY 'off the mark' ...but??.. everyone is entitled to an opinion...
I find it interesting that Dyson uses a conducting metaphor as I believe his father was a famous church musician
uninteresting...
Interesting he says opp was so dogmatic..yet when he talks about black holes…which we still haven’t proven even exist, he cant get over the fact opp wasn’t interested in talking about them…
Wow Dyson is a jerk
If one doesn't have anything thing good to say about a dead person, don't say anything!
who is this clown to criticize RJO
Who are you
He contributed more to scientific research than Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer became more of a politician since the ww2
He's really jealous of Oppenheimer. Sad man.