When I was starting to resurrect a very damaged bass that I bought, a luthier told me to buy the book "The Setup and Repair of the Double Bass" by Chuck Traeger. He deals with end pins in four pages, and he commented, "every bass in which I have removed any type of metal rod and replaced it with wood has immediately and noticeably improved in quality and quantity of sound, a well as playability. When a client asks me to make their bass sound better, the first thing I look at now is the end pin, for this is the First Genie of sound and Playability. Chuck also suggests using a drumstick with a crutch tip on the bottom. Measure the diameter of your current endpin and go to a drum shop and get one of the same diameter. Worked for me.
After watching this upload, and forever looking for a new twist on an old adage, I decided to make a wooden endpin for my Chinese laminated starter bass. Took a 1" oak dowel rod, trimmed it to length with protruding inserts on either end to fit into the bass and the threaded rubber end stop. Although I really can't tell a great deal of difference between the two. However, that varnished oak endpin looks cool!😎
I thought the wood had more warmth and richness but I'm wondering if I could tell them apart in a blind test. My new bass has a wooden endpin and I'm very happy with it so far. I never cared for the indexed steel endpins because I 'm the princess and the pea when it comes to a 5 mm of endpin length. My top concerns with endpins have always been "does it rattle?" and "does it slip?' but I will keep this video in mind in the future.
I feel you. I'm verrrrry sensitive when it comes to my setup and the feel of the instrument. However, it pays off in the long run, IMHO. Thanks for watching!
Truthfully I think the wood endpin sounds wayyy better. The sound was more full and balanced compared to the stainless steel. I’m definitely getting one for mine now. I used some dang good headphones to listen as well! Been following for some time, just never comment!
As Per The Stainless, I've Played Live with the Stainless with a Plywood, No Amp, in a Medium Room, and Could Be Heard,So, That being Said, the Acoustics of the Room, Plus Technique, is ALSO a Consideration, INCLUDING the DRUMMER!! (As you No Doubt, are Aware Of!!)
The wood endpin definitely added more body to the note in pizz. I actually preferred the steel for arco, at least on this end. Sounded more balanced across the spectrum and focused. The wood felt more diffuse (probably because it's pumping out more sonic information). I wouldn't call either one better, tho- looks to be another tool in the kit to adjust to different purposes and conditions in the field (insert frightfully dorky Q Branch allusion here). Do you carry both with you?
I just want to comment on the pizzicato part of the comparison since its what I do and feel I can talk about : I think the steel endpin sounds better. I wanted to like the wooden endpin but I think the steel endpin brings out the better qualities of your strings (which are not gut strings). It makes the bass sound more "alive". Quicker,more defined,more upper harmonic content to the notes,more bloom. The wooden endpin make the bass sound softer ,more lo-mid oriented but I think it robs your bass of some of the positive characteristics that you get from playing metal strings .The bass sounds defused and there is an unpleasant "plastic" quality to the sound. Maybe it would be interesting to make such a comparison using gut strings, I think the wooden endpin might sound better with these.. Thank you for a very interesting comparison!
To my ear the steel endpin had more volume but the wood endpin had a more natural sound. It seemed to bring out the wood in the bass - those fundamental dark, rich tones. I also noticed in the fast pizz passage that the steel seemed to bring out more buzz or finger sounds. In some cases that might be desirable but it made it seemed not quite as clean a sound, even though it was louder. Obviously, Paul's playing is impeccable in both examples but the wood pin gave me a nice Paul Chambers/Ray Brown vibe. That said, I might be biased - I own a Ben Bastin wood bent endpin, which I love. I've tried whittled drumsticks made of different types wood, steel endpins, and carbon endpins. I just keep coming back to wood, and specifically the Ben Bastin pin. My gigs are almost all small ensemble - duo or trio jazz, pop, or folk, so the wood fits perfectly into that sound. I hope that helps.
You are too kind! After a year, I still find myself grabbing the steel endpin for that quick response on pizz stuff--and going for the Bastin on mostly arco things. It really is amazing--and good to hear there are other happy users out there!
@@pdbass Most of my gigs are without a drummer so the wood pin works for me because I classify the settings I play in as predominantly "acoustic", even though we do use amplification. That said, your video does inspire me with the idea that I should carry my steel pin with me all of the time so that I can adjust my sound to different rooms. I usually fiddle with my low cut to adjust for boominess etc but I can see the value now of maybe swapping out endpins when playing different sized rooms or on different surfaces. For instance, while I typically play on wood floors most of the time and the wood pin is great on those, the other night I played on carpeted floor which muted my sound quite a bit. A steel pin would have allowed me to cut through that more effectively, I think. So I'm happy you shared your examples here. I'm always grateful for suggestions and tools for better sound. BTW, I love your videos! There's such a wealth of information there. Easy to follow and digest and practice, great tips that I've already quickly incorporated into my playing. I'm happy that I stumbled onto your channel and so grateful for your generosity in sharing both your knowledge and some of your life story in such a humble way. I wish you all the best and look forward to more.
I've always used steel but I liked the way your bass sounded with wood played pizz. Arco the wood sounded smoother but nasal. I play mostly arco but even on just your small demo a million variables, strings etc. Maybe just me. Thanks for doing it though.
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It probably has something to do with the fact that the wooden one is wider and has more contact surface and the steel one is more isolated from the body.
Stainless has a nice bright sound and brought out the high notes well for the arco, though Iiked the darker sound in the pizz on the wooden end pin. Not the biggest difference in the world but definitely something.
Wow such a difference! I never gave endpins any thought whatsoever until today. :o Also, on an entirely unrelated note.. dig the black and gold "Pittsburgh Steelers" audio monitors!
I hear more subharmonics with the wooden endpin. I don't play any jazz, but this is a really important factor for old-time music and things like square dancing., where there's an absence of percussion. Everyone "feels" the subharmonics, even if they can't even hear what pitch you are playing, which is why instruments like a washtub bass work so well in that context. As an old-time player, I'm definitely interested in trying out a wooden endpin on mine now. My current endpin includes parts of a rubber stopper and a sharpie cap, so there's much room for improvement :D
So out of interest were you a classical kid ? Nice sound and control with the bow . Maybe you studied later . I was a punk rock kid , then became a Hendrix punk kid . Then a Miles Davis kid at 15
Why stop there... Maybe get some kinda resonant system to put the whole endpin into , But,,, I suppose it's effective because of how it suspends the bass.., THUS, I WOULD EXPERIMENT WITH something very thin and strong for maximum resonance and play with adding wood like materials to dampen it ... Also a spring! like system that is itself tuned is likely to have an effect
When I was starting to resurrect a very damaged bass that I bought, a luthier told me to buy the book "The Setup and Repair of the Double Bass" by Chuck Traeger. He deals with end pins in four pages, and he commented, "every bass in which I have removed any type of metal rod and replaced it with wood has immediately and noticeably improved in quality and quantity of sound, a well as playability. When a client asks me to make their bass sound better, the first thing I look at now is the end pin, for this is the First Genie of sound and Playability. Chuck also suggests using a drumstick with a crutch tip on the bottom. Measure the diameter of your current endpin and go to a drum shop and get one of the same diameter. Worked for me.
After watching this upload, and forever looking for a new twist on an old adage, I decided to make a wooden endpin for my Chinese laminated starter bass. Took a 1" oak dowel rod, trimmed it to length with protruding inserts on either end to fit into the bass and the threaded rubber end stop. Although I really can't tell a great deal of difference between the two. However, that varnished oak endpin looks cool!😎
I thought the wood had more warmth and richness but I'm wondering if I could tell them apart in a blind test. My new bass has a wooden endpin and I'm very happy with it so far. I never cared for the indexed steel endpins because I 'm the princess and the pea when it comes to a 5 mm of endpin length.
My top concerns with endpins have always been "does it rattle?" and "does it slip?' but I will keep this video in mind in the future.
I feel you. I'm verrrrry sensitive when it comes to my setup and the feel of the instrument. However, it pays off in the long run, IMHO. Thanks for watching!
Truthfully I think the wood endpin sounds wayyy better. The sound was more full and balanced compared to the stainless steel. I’m definitely getting one for mine now. I used some dang good headphones to listen as well! Been following for some time, just never comment!
I switched to a wooden endpin years ago for the same reasons you talk about. It was a bit darker and noticeably louder.
The wooden endpin wins my vote.
As Per The Stainless, I've Played Live with the Stainless with a Plywood, No Amp, in a Medium Room, and Could Be Heard,So, That being Said, the Acoustics of the Room, Plus Technique, is ALSO a Consideration, INCLUDING the DRUMMER!! (As you No Doubt, are Aware Of!!)
The wood endpin definitely added more body to the note in pizz.
I actually preferred the steel for arco, at least on this end. Sounded more balanced across the spectrum and focused. The wood felt more diffuse (probably because it's pumping out more sonic information).
I wouldn't call either one better, tho- looks to be another tool in the kit to adjust to different purposes and conditions in the field (insert frightfully dorky Q Branch allusion here).
Do you carry both with you?
I have been lately. Leaning more towards the wood as my strings age, but I grew up listening to that steel sound, for sure.
I have two Ben Bastin endpins! One for standing and one for sitting. Never going back...
I just want to comment on the pizzicato part of the comparison since its what I do and feel I can talk about : I think the steel endpin sounds better. I wanted to like the wooden endpin but I think the steel endpin brings out the better qualities of your strings (which are not gut strings). It makes the bass sound more "alive". Quicker,more defined,more upper harmonic content to the notes,more bloom.
The wooden endpin make the bass sound softer ,more lo-mid oriented but I think it robs your bass of some of the positive characteristics that you get from playing metal strings .The bass sounds defused and there is an unpleasant "plastic" quality to the sound.
Maybe it would be interesting to make such a comparison using gut strings, I think the wooden endpin might sound better with these..
Thank you for a very interesting comparison!
Great video! I have no significant thoughts on yer sound difference, but I DO wanna hear yer carbon fibre endpin and I want a wooden one now
To my ear the steel endpin had more volume but the wood endpin had a more natural sound. It seemed to bring out the wood in the bass - those fundamental dark, rich tones. I also noticed in the fast pizz passage that the steel seemed to bring out more buzz or finger sounds. In some cases that might be desirable but it made it seemed not quite as clean a sound, even though it was louder. Obviously, Paul's playing is impeccable in both examples but the wood pin gave me a nice Paul Chambers/Ray Brown vibe. That said, I might be biased - I own a Ben Bastin wood bent endpin, which I love. I've tried whittled drumsticks made of different types wood, steel endpins, and carbon endpins. I just keep coming back to wood, and specifically the Ben Bastin pin. My gigs are almost all small ensemble - duo or trio jazz, pop, or folk, so the wood fits perfectly into that sound. I hope that helps.
You are too kind! After a year, I still find myself grabbing the steel endpin for that quick response on pizz stuff--and going for the Bastin on mostly arco things. It really is amazing--and good to hear there are other happy users out there!
@@pdbass Most of my gigs are without a drummer so the wood pin works for me because I classify the settings I play in as predominantly "acoustic", even though we do use amplification. That said, your video does inspire me with the idea that I should carry my steel pin with me all of the time so that I can adjust my sound to different rooms. I usually fiddle with my low cut to adjust for boominess etc but I can see the value now of maybe swapping out endpins when playing different sized rooms or on different surfaces. For instance, while I typically play on wood floors most of the time and the wood pin is great on those, the other night I played on carpeted floor which muted my sound quite a bit. A steel pin would have allowed me to cut through that more effectively, I think. So I'm happy you shared your examples here. I'm always grateful for suggestions and tools for better sound.
BTW, I love your videos! There's such a wealth of information there. Easy to follow and digest and practice, great tips that I've already quickly incorporated into my playing. I'm happy that I stumbled onto your channel and so grateful for your generosity in sharing both your knowledge and some of your life story in such a humble way. I wish you all the best and look forward to more.
Very informative video. Thank you.
I've always used steel but I liked the way your bass sounded with wood played pizz. Arco the wood sounded smoother but nasal. I play mostly arco but even on just your small demo a million variables, strings etc. Maybe just me. Thanks for doing it though.
It probably has something to do with the fact that the wooden one is wider and has more contact surface and the steel one is more isolated from the body.
THNX!! I'm NOT a "NEWBE" but Still Pertinent!! (Something I Hadn't Considered!!)
Stainless has a nice bright sound and brought out the high notes well for the arco, though Iiked the darker sound in the pizz on the wooden end pin. Not the biggest difference in the world but definitely something.
Wow such a difference! I never gave endpins any thought whatsoever until today. :o Also, on an entirely unrelated note.. dig the black and gold "Pittsburgh Steelers" audio monitors!
LOL. I got lucky that KRK just makes them that color. Thanks for watching!
The stainless Steel end pin was brighter sounding than the wooden end pin.
wooden gives a richer sound. I switched to wooden pin a while back and love it
Maybe the first video of yours I watched? Maybe
I hear more subharmonics with the wooden endpin. I don't play any jazz, but this is a really important factor for old-time music and things like square dancing., where there's an absence of percussion. Everyone "feels" the subharmonics, even if they can't even hear what pitch you are playing, which is why instruments like a washtub bass work so well in that context. As an old-time player, I'm definitely interested in trying out a wooden endpin on mine now. My current endpin includes parts of a rubber stopper and a sharpie cap, so there's much room for improvement :D
So out of interest were you a classical kid ? Nice sound and control with the bow . Maybe you studied later . I was a punk rock kid , then became a Hendrix punk kid . Then a Miles Davis kid at 15
Why stop there... Maybe get some kinda resonant system to put the whole endpin into , But,,, I suppose it's effective because of how it suspends the bass.., THUS, I WOULD EXPERIMENT WITH something very thin and strong for maximum resonance and play with adding wood like materials to dampen it ... Also a spring! like system that is itself tuned is likely to have an effect
Pöllmann Bass