@@tomaszk2242to me, printing hello world is still easy - especially if it's just some logic to pump bits into an lcd display But the tough part is designing a self sustaining cycle of fetch-decode-execute-i/o That's crazy
Lol everyone complaining about the memory ICs. I just want to see relays multiplex the 7 segment outputs :P Very cool. Don't let the haters bring this down. The implementation of the idea is where it's at. A whole computer is ambitious enough with ICs, let alone the work half of a cpu being little magic metal fingers bouncing back and forth. Bad ass.
The options for random-access memory that doesn't need semiconductors to read and write calls for things that are either massive, obscenely tedious, require vacuum tubes, or all of the above. I agree they should cut him some slack.
Dude, this is super impressive. I didn't expect this feature-rich instruction set. No big dieal you used silicon for memory and I/O. That would be ridiculously expensive and expansive. Really nice.
I saw this video back in 2017 and was really amazed by every single second of it, I really liked the idea, so today I'm starting to plan to rebuild a similar thing but with more relays, actually it'll be all relays and no ic's at all, all the way from memory to display decoder, After some calculations by now I realized for the memory sizes I decided on, I'll need about 1,664 relays, just for the main memory, and I'm going for it whatever it costs because I know the moment it runs it'll be priceless to me, thank you for the inspiration sir
I'm so happy this exists, I like the idea of seeing a computer run, like when you see a cross section of a motor running but their is just no equivalent. Would look super cool with see-though relay cases!
Wow ! That's so cool ! I currently don't have the material to build any logic gates ,so I'm having fun making a 8 bits adder in Minecraft to learn the theory behind it ^^ !
I bought one of these computers a few months ago when jhallenworld sold a few. It's an excellent implementation of programming concepts I first came across when I used PDP-8 computers in the 1980s, and I wanted to revisit those good times. Unfortunately, because of ill-health I haven't been able to do much, but this latest video has encouraged me to try harder.
I figured that core memory would need at the very least vacuum tubes to amplify the read pulse. His options are limited. I shudder at the thought of something like thousands of relay latches.
@@CharlesJrPike the latches aren't that much of an issue. The fun starts with demuxing the address, and really rolls when you do a walking 0 memory test.
The control-bit "horizontal"[?] instruction-encoding is a huge eye-opener for me... Really drives-home how a CPU functions at an internal level. Suddenly I can visualize the different paths in e.g.the ALU, each having a separate "Chip-select." [Edit: commented before seeing the diagram later in the video. Well-explained. And using MUXes makes a lot of sense]] Never seen nor heard of "control bits" in this manner, so tightly-coupled to the instruction-set (and I have a degree and many years in embedded systems)! I wonder what weird instructions this allows for that one might never think to intentionally make or look for... e.g. Compliment A (bitmask), AND B, Shift-Right, output to a port, and store back to B, all in a single instruction! Could be useful for e.g. bitbanging RS-232. It looks like a jump could be thrown into that same instruction... Oh how I want to find a use for all that in a single cycle!
i would love to hook this thing up to an old serial terminal and just mess around. imagine typing a command, hearing this thing go, then getting a response. sounds magical : )
This takes me back to my miss-spent youth. We had Burroughs L2000 minicomputers which came with some software that we used. I wanted to write some simple routines like reading punched cards and doing a bit of maths and totals of numbers punched on the cards. I found a pinched paper tape that put the L2000 I to programming mode and I had a card with a list of the op codes with their corresponding hex machine code. The memory was organised in four instructions of four hex characters per word. The instructions were executed in reverse order from each word which was a bit of a headache until I found this out! Manually converting the app codes into hex was a bit a pain but I thought that was how you wrote programs! Imagine my surprise when I was gold that such things as assemblers were available to do this for you! And then high level languages - I thought all my birthdays had one at once. Great video and a wonderful machine!
Stephen Eddy, as of December 30, 2019, there were several of these kits for sale on eBay. Joe told me on Christmas that he plans to make the kits available as long as people continue buying them.
I just came across this some two years late, but I have to say, that is a really elegant implementation. For those complaining that the memory wasn't implemented in relays too, very few if any first generation computers used the same technology for memory and the CPU. Typically a relay computer would have paper tape memory or something equally arcane and hard to duplicate these days.
Rope core or braided wire memory was relatively new compared to a relay machine. The Burroughs B 3500 third generation integrated circuit machine used that for ROM in the 1970s. So did the Apollo guidance computer and a number of others from that general era. But that was a form of ROM, and we are talking RAM here. First generation vacuum tube machines used a number of forms of RAM. Flying spot scanner CRTs and mercury delay lines were among the most common, along with drum memory. Of course accounting machines like the IBM 402 and 407 used relays and mechanical switches of various forms for memory, but they only had a few registers, not a large addressable RAM field.
The RAM is emulated, so the only trick is to exploit this to the max- it's using multi-port memory, which ends up saving many relays. Otherwise the savings are from careful architecture and circuit design.
If you guys are interested its not a bad build it took about 8-10 hours. If you are experienced you may shave an hour or two. All in all it's a great computer for learning the general principles of a CPU.
Oh no. The algorithm has led me deep into the dark side again... I foresee hours on Digi-Key ordering supplies and more hours of construction ahead .... 🤓🤓🤓🤓
I think it is not fully relay based computer. You still see there are some ICs. I think it is a combination of modern and relay computer. Relays just do some logic functions to show us how some logic functions are done. It is quite interesting to see clicking relays, leds showing logic level and final results displayed in 7 segments leds display though.
@@joeypc87 , the entire CPU is implemented in relays. Think of this as the microprocessor on any single board computer, e.g. the KIM-1. The memory is a separate thing, and in this case is the 1k Bytes of RAM internal to a PIC microcontroller (arranged as 256 words of 32 bits each, as required by the relay CPU. When the relay program counter asks for the next program instruction, the PIC reads it from its RAM and presents the 32 bits to the relay CPU, which then executes the instruction. The PIC is there to 'be the memory'. There is a second, smaller PIC microcontroller which handles scanning the keypad and multiplexing the 7-segment LED display, and maybe also the serial port. One of the PICs also generates the clock for the relay CPU. Neither PIC is involved in executing the program, i.e. no cheating. When you study in instruction set and CPU architecture diagram, it is easy to see how so much can be accomplished by 83 relays.
I wouldn't make a relay computer unless I had plenty of relays and no semiconductors. Not sure what I'd use for memory but maybe something like what antique typewriters used to set and clear tabs.
So for clarification, this has an entirely relay CPU, and ICs for the rest of the components, right? Would love to see a more in-depth video on the layout.
Hello, I also bought and finished this relay computer ... When I first switched it on, some random LEDs shone, but the display showed nothing ... I think I placed some ICs in the wrong place ... Do you have a list or so where I can see which IC comes in which place?
am new to this topic with basic understanding of gates and relays and gates in general, i want to built my own 4bit relay any resources where i can get started with ?
Finally someone posted something that's not just a adder!
Exactly. Understanding adder is fairly achievable, but nobody touches a topic like: actually printing "hello world".
@Westley Yousef We really don't
@@tomaszk2242to me, printing hello world is still easy - especially if it's just some logic to pump bits into an lcd display
But the tough part is designing a self sustaining cycle of fetch-decode-execute-i/o
That's crazy
Sounded like an old tractor when you adjusted the frequency. Very cool. Reminds me of my youth, plunking away on a KIM-1.
More like radioactive dosemeter :3
Lol everyone complaining about the memory ICs. I just want to see relays multiplex the 7 segment outputs :P
Very cool. Don't let the haters bring this down. The implementation of the idea is where it's at. A whole computer is ambitious enough with ICs, let alone the work half of a cpu being little magic metal fingers bouncing back and forth. Bad ass.
The options for random-access memory that doesn't need semiconductors to read and write calls for things that are either massive, obscenely tedious, require vacuum tubes, or all of the above. I agree they should cut him some slack.
>the work of half of a cpu being little magic metal fingers
now THAT's counting on your fingers.
You're gonna be glad you have this relay computer when Skynet takes over......
Until this relay computer becomes self-aware...
This computer will become skynet
I love the fact that you went into detail about the instructions and block diagram.
Dude, this is super impressive. I didn't expect this feature-rich instruction set. No big dieal you used silicon for memory and I/O. That would be ridiculously expensive and expansive. Really nice.
I saw this video back in 2017 and was really amazed by every single second of it,
I really liked the idea, so today I'm starting to plan to rebuild a similar thing but with more relays, actually it'll be all relays and no ic's at all, all the way from memory to display decoder,
After some calculations by now I realized for the memory sizes I decided on, I'll need about 1,664 relays, just for the main memory, and I'm going for it whatever it costs because I know the moment it runs it'll be priceless to me, thank you for the inspiration sir
Even the memory? I'm impressed. How are you going to make that part work?
Very impressive
Any updates?
I'm so happy this exists, I like the idea of seeing a computer run, like when you see a cross section of a motor running but their is just no equivalent. Would look super cool with see-though relay cases!
In the early 70's I made a 4 bits adder at school, with only relays and small bulb lamps! :)
Wow ! That's so cool ! I currently don't have the material to build any logic gates ,so I'm having fun making a 8 bits adder in Minecraft to learn the theory behind it ^^ !
@@LouSwan thats actually super dope i didnt think of that
This is a hybrid machine! All of the memory and programming is stored on IC's.
Nice to hear those relays clicking though.
thank you for answering my question. that is what I suspected. I don't think you could do this on a single board without the ICs.
The CPU is made out of relays though
So few relays, so much functionality... something has to be amis
Brings back memories of how I used to write assembly code for PIC micro controllers.
I remember having to write a RAM clearing assembly subroutine for PIC32 after soft resets, as the hardware didn't clear RAM.
Of course the PC speaker on a relais computer is a coil-driven bell.
I bought one of these computers a few months ago when jhallenworld sold a few. It's an excellent implementation of programming concepts I first came across when I used PDP-8 computers in the 1980s, and I wanted to revisit those good times.
Unfortunately, because of ill-health I haven't been able to do much, but this latest video has encouraged me to try harder.
John Cherry, Joe Allen is still selling these kits on eBay.
i just love this! when thinking of "period" memory solutions, core memory comes to mind. Well done, sir.
I figured that core memory would need at the very least vacuum tubes to amplify the read pulse. His options are limited. I shudder at the thought of something like thousands of relay latches.
@@CharlesJrPike the latches aren't that much of an issue. The fun starts with demuxing the address, and really rolls when you do a walking 0 memory test.
The control-bit "horizontal"[?] instruction-encoding is a huge eye-opener for me... Really drives-home how a CPU functions at an internal level. Suddenly I can visualize the different paths in e.g.the ALU, each having a separate "Chip-select."
[Edit: commented before seeing the diagram later in the video. Well-explained. And using MUXes makes a lot of sense]]
Never seen nor heard of "control bits" in this manner, so tightly-coupled to the instruction-set (and I have a degree and many years in embedded systems)!
I wonder what weird instructions this allows for that one might never think to intentionally make or look for... e.g. Compliment A (bitmask), AND B, Shift-Right, output to a port, and store back to B, all in a single instruction! Could be useful for e.g. bitbanging RS-232.
It looks like a jump could be thrown into that same instruction... Oh how I want to find a use for all that in a single cycle!
@@someoned16 Intriguing, I'll have to look into that. Thanks!
This is a bit like a single board TEC-1 computer I built in the 80's just without relays. Very interesting work.
Neat sound. Sounds like the Nostromo computer in Alien.
I love videos like this. Considering how complicated today's computers are, this is very understandable
i would love to hook this thing up to an old serial terminal and just mess around. imagine typing a command, hearing this thing go, then getting a response. sounds magical : )
This takes me back to my miss-spent youth. We had Burroughs L2000 minicomputers which came with some software that we used. I wanted to write some simple routines like reading punched cards and doing a bit of maths and totals of numbers punched on the cards. I found a pinched paper tape that put the L2000 I to programming mode and I had a card with a list of the op codes with their corresponding hex machine code. The memory was organised in four instructions of four hex characters per word. The instructions were executed in reverse order from each word which was a bit of a headache until I found this out! Manually converting the app codes into hex was a bit a pain but I thought that was how you wrote programs! Imagine my surprise when I was gold that such things as assemblers were available to do this for you! And then high level languages - I thought all my birthdays had one at once. Great video and a wonderful machine!
Recently got hooked with a PDP-8 at the vintage computer festival at Berlin and now stumbled upon your site/video. Very fun stuff!
Damn shame they aren't transparent relays, it's so cool to see the mechanical movement
Impressive work, sir! Congratulation! Really amazing that you made all the CPU by relays!
That’s beautiful. Great job man. I wish I had found this while you were still selling them.
Stephen Eddy, as of December 30, 2019, there were several of these kits for sale on eBay. Joe told me on Christmas that he plans to make the kits available as long as people continue buying them.
can't play crysis with all that clatter going on
@The Lavian Apparently yours is deader.
I like people who made something and really enjoy what he/she made :)
I just came across this some two years late, but I have to say, that is a really elegant implementation.
For those complaining that the memory wasn't implemented in relays too, very few if any first generation computers used the same technology for memory and the CPU. Typically a relay computer would have paper tape memory or something equally arcane and hard to duplicate these days.
The one I remember was rope core memory
Rope core or braided wire memory was relatively new compared to a relay machine. The Burroughs B 3500 third generation integrated circuit machine used that for ROM in the 1970s. So did the Apollo guidance computer and a number of others from that general era. But that was a form of ROM, and we are talking RAM here.
First generation vacuum tube machines used a number of forms of RAM. Flying spot scanner CRTs and mercury delay lines were among the most common, along with drum memory. Of course accounting machines like the IBM 402 and 407 used relays and mechanical switches of various forms for memory, but they only had a few registers, not a large addressable RAM field.
@@lwilton Huh. Interesting. I haven't studied the old old technology. My knowledge of computers kinda ends in the 80s. I'm working my way back though
Oh the sweet sweet sound of relays
Wow.
This makes me so happy. Wish I had found it when it came out.
Thanks for posting an excellent video!
these clicks are pretty satisfying
outstanding! I really like the way you make the control bits the opcode in the msbs. All good wishes.
Seconded. It really helps in understanding what a CPU does and how it does it.
With so few relays I really expected a simpler machine .. there must be some trickery going on surely?
The RAM is emulated, so the only trick is to exploit this to the max- it's using multi-port memory, which ends up saving many relays. Otherwise the savings are from careful architecture and circuit design.
There's a surface mounted STM32 ARM and its embedded Linux who do the job under the board !
It’s going down
in *_hISTORY_*
Impressive docs as well.
Very cool and inspiring. I would love to build something like this for myself.
Have you done it? Show us
This sounds like what computers in movies (like Mother from Alien) sound like 😁
Exactly my thoughts! Was going to comment the same!
If you guys are interested its not a bad build it took about 8-10 hours. If you are experienced you may shave an hour or two. All in all it's a great computer for learning the general principles of a CPU.
Sounds very much like the "mother" computer in Alien
Great video. At the start when it ran fast it sounds like a military tattoos, but I guess that the drummers don't do Euler's calculations there.
Very sweet, I love the sounds it makes when it is working.
Holy crap! Mother from the movie Alien was a relay computer! The sound is nearly identical!
This thing needs to be used to run a Pinball machine!
Beautiful machine.
Sometimes it's nice to stop and appreciate the actual calculations a computer crunches through at a more "human" speed.
Nice, the JSR trick from older computers, I think it is called the Wheelers jump....
And you evne madeyour own architecture and instruction set, amazing!
Unbelieevably good! WOW! Thank You! Can this still be bought ANYWHERE? Or from ANYONE?
This is so much like i learned to program a Z80 cpu, we used Z80dt at school. Very nice, thank you
Does it have a mnemonic for HCF: Halt and Catch Fire.
Darnit I really wanted to see how you translated to machine code:( Wonderful thing you have made though!
Such a beautiful device!
Oh no. The algorithm has led me deep into the dark side again... I foresee hours on Digi-Key ordering supplies and more hours of construction ahead .... 🤓🤓🤓🤓
Imagine going into your math exams with this instead of a TI-83.
I love the sound! More relays!!!!
Absolute madman, this is beautiful
0:00 I thought that it was a video from electric boom for second 😂
Leon Vollebregt “Hi !”
Me quito el sombrero. ¡Qué chulada!
What? No ferrite ring memory? No output to valve tubes numbered displays? No paper card reader? No reed switch keyboard? :-D
I think it is not fully relay based computer. You still see there are some ICs. I think it is a combination of modern and relay computer. Relays just do some logic functions to show us how some logic functions are done. It is quite interesting to see clicking relays, leds showing logic level and final results displayed in 7 segments leds display though.
that's why I'm making a replica of the Fujiwara Facom computer
I mean, the Fujitsu Facom, yep, I'm buying 5000 miniaturized relays (I wish they were transparent so I could see them clicking).
@@joeypc87 , the entire CPU is implemented in relays. Think of this as the microprocessor on any single board computer, e.g. the KIM-1.
The memory is a separate thing, and in this case is the 1k Bytes of RAM internal to a PIC microcontroller (arranged as 256 words of 32 bits each, as required by the relay CPU. When the relay program counter asks for the next program instruction, the PIC reads it from its RAM and presents the 32 bits to the relay CPU, which then executes the instruction. The PIC is there to 'be the memory'. There is a second, smaller PIC microcontroller which handles scanning the keypad and multiplexing the 7-segment LED display, and maybe also the serial port. One of the PICs also generates the clock for the relay CPU. Neither PIC is involved in executing the program, i.e. no cheating.
When you study in instruction set and CPU architecture diagram, it is easy to see how so much can be accomplished by 83 relays.
Ah gawd the heavenly noise.
Reminds me when we simulate a microprossesor using a microcontroller... Neat.
sounds like the computer from the original Alien movie :)
i like it
finally i can play pong at 0.003 FPS.
this is the "I have too much time on my hands" model
01:08 from here it started sounding like a hand start generator engine 😲
Only indians can relate with
Manual frequency adjustment = Michael Flatley/Feet of Flames
I wouldn't make a relay computer unless I had plenty of relays and no semiconductors. Not sure what I'd use for memory but maybe something like what antique typewriters used to set and clear tabs.
Brilliant, absolute genius!
I really want one of these
So, with COM (invert) and ANDTO you can make all bitwise logic gates. Turing Complete!
Awesome computer
That's running on diesel!
So satisfying to listen to
I wish you sold a complete kit and not just bare boards.
sounds like computer noise on nostromo in Alien movie
So for clarification, this has an entirely relay CPU, and ICs for the rest of the components, right? Would love to see a more in-depth video on the layout.
Prax, I am preparing a video of exactly what you ask for, using the identical one of these that I built.
genuine inventor
That two microcontroller ruin all the magic.
1:10 sounds like steam locomotive speed up.
Do you have any plans to add more status flags in the future, like a Zero Flag?
Relay computer made on integral circuits. Nice... How to make it?
Nice drum machine 😎
This is just beyond cool
0:25 that's such a cool sound, imma sample that
Now make it draw a Mandelbrot :) but really cool!
Imagine if modern computers were like this. Your computer would be the size of a room and make you deaf trying to listen to a piece of music.
now that's a macrocontroller
That's a real neat computer! Really rings my bell! :D
Are the ebay ones all assembled or a kit? I _REALLY_ enjoy soldering. :P
I qwould love one of these is it possible to get the gerber file or purcahase a BOM and pre-made board?
Hello, I also bought and finished this relay computer ... When I first switched it on, some random LEDs shone, but the display showed nothing ... I think I placed some ICs in the wrong place ... Do you have a list or so where I can see which IC comes in which place?
The sound so scary... Like a diesel engine
Could you please provide a closeup picture of the keypad, or a description of how it works
Robert Booth, I am preparing my own detailed exploration of this computer, including how to write a program, and will be uploading to TH-cam soon.
Sounds like my steam engine in childhood days😂
First time youtube give me a good recommendation !!!
am new to this topic with basic understanding of gates and relays and gates in general, i want to built my own 4bit relay any resources where i can get started with ?
Absolutely fantastic
Sweet design!
Curious what value you used for R204 (holding resistors), and if you had to "swap relays around" to get it to run.
coo. can you play doom on it?
Very impressive!
One question!
Ermm..... With so many chips... Yet you are still using relay for computing?
Is it possible to made coder and decoder with relays?
Why use relays when you have transistors? Why??