I'd like to see more on how the two ideologies frame outside actors and/or influences; specifically in reference to how Nationalism strongly rejects in all forms, but how Patriotism blurs that line by accepting outside influence when it also proves to be loyal and/or beneficial to the state.
@Taranis Spatula Ideology is everyone's interface with reality. So when are we not drinking from the kool-aid? Are you saying yours tastes better? Therefore! and I say! Everyone's kool-aid is equal!!! (not)
These are so often conflated concepts as to be indistinguishable in actual usage. The main difference would seem to be that patriotism has a basis in a legal definition, namely citizenship in a political state. Nationalism however seems a much more loose and open-ended concept which might be based on any of a large number of possible shared properties, sometimes chosen on an arbitrary basis. The main issue would seem to be to what extent it is justified for some to urge others to "do your duty" as a member of this nation or state. Patriotism can rest on a social contract theory, whereas nationalism doesn't seem to have any such basis, just a sort of prejudice or gut feeling on the part of those who claim nationhood (which seems itself to be a sort of contrived idea in any particular case) that others should feel or believe as they do. Patriotism seems to rest on a property the individual has chosen, but nationalism can apparently (and in practice often seems to be) assigned by whoever takes it upon himself to do so. Nationalism will sometimes pose as patriotism, which results in chauvinism or jingoism.
The Patri- from Patriotism comes from the Greek word Πατρίδα which literally translates to Homeland Patriotism the love to the homeland. Nationalism translates to Εθνικισμός which refers to the ethnicity. So nationalism is the love for your nation and your ethnicity
Patriotism = the Fatherland (a place where the fathers lives/lived). I see absolutely no points toward any patriotism/nationalism. These notions are completely empty. It's like the claim "it must be important where you was born" Really? Is this metaphysically important? A person might not exist at all, so his existence is kinda chance. And this is absolutely in no sense ever important where you live, where you was born, etc. Even if I were a tiniest insect and lived 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a sec of the Earth hour system, it would be the same super good as anyone had being alive. Why patriotism or nationalism haven't been identified to faschism and nazism yet?
That is not what the concept of fatherland/motherland is derived from. It refers in a spiritual sense the land which nurtured you and developed you. This had far more weight in a non interconnected, globalized world. As to your point of why it matters, first we as humans are molded not just by our genetics but by the environment we grow up in, therefore we can equate who we are as people not only to familia but patria as well. Of course, if you are someone who resents who they are these ideas would be discarded and considered pointless. Second, humans desire belonging and identity, and the people group which we derive from allows us to distinguish ourselves from others and gives us a default compass by which we interpret information. Furthermore, it allows us to identify with OTHERS who share our same heritage, which is a potent force in the human organism. This is referred to as philia in the Nicomachean sense. This is very powerful and has been the general mode for movement of history. The only thing that tends to irk me about people who discard nationalism in the ethnic sense is that they will denounce one group for doing it while championing others. For instance, Americans will denounce any form of European collectivism, but consistently advocate for any given Native American “nation”, which in this sense is the purest form of the word in the context of which I am presenting it. Thanks
You cant compare a bugs life to ours. Even if they experienced time slower than we did, it still couldnt be as fulfilling and vivid a life that a human can live. And you dont see a point in being patriotic because you want a world order ruled not by one government but by the people and thats a pipe dream.
@@themiddleman3060 What makes you think I can't do compare? Is this some kind of "meta restriction"? I see no logical impossibility in such a comparement. No, instead I take hightly the fact of existence. It does not absolutely matter which one existence I take if the fact of the existence itself is just what I take. And you propose me be on a pessimistic way, only hoping for dying? What a good option! What would I do without your advice?.. Jule Vernes dreamt of flying mechanisms and it's been worked. Leibniz dreamt of calculus rationalism and it's been done. Jews dreamt of his own state and it's been performed. So, staying "we're doomed, we'll die" is just a skeptical point. And skeptics are too limited to try to understand what the life is.
Thank you for uploading videos like these I'm looking to educate myself in these topics
I'd like to see more on how the two ideologies frame outside actors and/or influences; specifically in reference to how Nationalism strongly rejects in all forms, but how Patriotism blurs that line by accepting outside influence when it also proves to be loyal and/or beneficial to the state.
amen
Ah yes. The two ism's I hate the most. The main causes why a lot of people hate other people and live in constant conflicts and violence
I don't think patriotism is bad. Patriotism means we _have to be good_ while nationalism means we _are_ good.
@Taranis Spatula Ideology is everyone's interface with reality. So when are we not drinking from the kool-aid? Are you saying yours tastes better? Therefore! and I say! Everyone's kool-aid is equal!!! (not)
Cope
Why did we not learn this in school? It's such a useful framing of why there is a disconnect between nationalists and legislature.
The only way to control the masses is to ban books and real education.
These are so often conflated concepts as to be indistinguishable in actual usage. The main difference would seem to be that patriotism has a basis in a legal definition, namely citizenship in a political state. Nationalism however seems a much more loose and open-ended concept which might be based on any of a large number of possible shared properties, sometimes chosen on an arbitrary basis. The main issue would seem to be to what extent it is justified for some to urge others to "do your duty" as a member of this nation or state. Patriotism can rest on a social contract theory, whereas nationalism doesn't seem to have any such basis, just a sort of prejudice or gut feeling on the part of those who claim nationhood (which seems itself to be a sort of contrived idea in any particular case) that others should feel or believe as they do. Patriotism seems to rest on a property the individual has chosen, but nationalism can apparently (and in practice often seems to be) assigned by whoever takes it upon himself to do so. Nationalism will sometimes pose as patriotism, which results in chauvinism or jingoism.
The Patri- from Patriotism comes from the Greek word Πατρίδα which literally translates to Homeland
Patriotism the love to the homeland.
Nationalism translates to Εθνικισμός which refers to the ethnicity.
So nationalism is the love for your nation and your ethnicity
Very important distinction at this present time in America current political climate
Humanism is likely the safest -ism. Secular humanism.
So, for example, a Palestinian, or a Kurd, could be a nationalist, but not a patriot? Am I getting this right?
So what even is ultranationalism apart from the vague idea of it being more extreme.
Patriotism = the Fatherland (a place where the fathers lives/lived). I see absolutely no points toward any patriotism/nationalism. These notions are completely empty. It's like the claim "it must be important where you was born" Really? Is this metaphysically important? A person might not exist at all, so his existence is kinda chance. And this is absolutely in no sense ever important where you live, where you was born, etc. Even if I were a tiniest insect and lived 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a sec of the Earth hour system, it would be the same super good as anyone had being alive.
Why patriotism or nationalism haven't been identified to faschism and nazism yet?
That is not what the concept of fatherland/motherland is derived from. It refers in a spiritual sense the land which nurtured you and developed you. This had far more weight in a non interconnected, globalized world.
As to your point of why it matters, first we as humans are molded not just by our genetics but by the environment we grow up in, therefore we can equate who we are as people not only to familia but patria as well. Of course, if you are someone who resents who they are these ideas would be discarded and considered pointless.
Second, humans desire belonging and identity, and the people group which we derive from allows us to distinguish ourselves from others and gives us a default compass by which we interpret information. Furthermore, it allows us to identify with OTHERS who share our same heritage, which is a potent force in the human organism. This is referred to as philia in the Nicomachean sense. This is very powerful and has been the general mode for movement of history.
The only thing that tends to irk me about people who discard nationalism in the ethnic sense is that they will denounce one group for doing it while championing others. For instance, Americans will denounce any form of European collectivism, but consistently advocate for any given Native American “nation”, which in this sense is the purest form of the word in the context of which I am presenting it.
Thanks
@@owenswabi Spiritual sense?.. I see. No need to continue.
You cant compare a bugs life to ours. Even if they experienced time slower than we did, it still couldnt be as fulfilling and vivid a life that a human can live.
And you dont see a point in being patriotic because you want a world order ruled not by one government but by the people and thats a pipe dream.
@@themiddleman3060 What makes you think I can't do compare? Is this some kind of "meta restriction"? I see no logical impossibility in such a comparement.
No, instead I take hightly the fact of existence. It does not absolutely matter which one existence I take if the fact of the existence itself is just what I take.
And you propose me be on a pessimistic way, only hoping for dying? What a good option! What would I do without your advice?..
Jule Vernes dreamt of flying mechanisms and it's been worked. Leibniz dreamt of calculus rationalism and it's been done. Jews dreamt of his own state and it's been performed. So, staying "we're doomed, we'll die" is just a skeptical point. And skeptics are too limited to try to understand
what the life is.
@@novinceinhosic3531 "I see absolutely no points toward any patriotism/nationalism. These notions are completely empty"