Im so thankful rn.. after years of following, starting myself little journeys of research, intentional acknowledgement of what i do and why in the gym... Its been a while that you dont post anything that i did not know nor i couldnt deduce. Youre a great teacher and a great inspiration Jeff!
I saw a video says “if u wanna grow your rear delta u should do pinkies down and thumbs up” now i know that its the opposite. Thanks for sharing these informations.
@@jeanpaul8854did you miss the video bro? Not to mention you can feel the difference, thumbs up hits the front delt more, pinkies up hits the rear delt more.
Doing them any other way than thumbs up causes shoulder pain. I do them thumbs up but I also do them leaned forward to shift the emphasis back onto the side delt
I've struggled with impingement issues and was advised by the PT to do the lateral raises with thumbs up and leaning forward as you have described. But if Jeff says this I'm conflicted, because Jeff can lift more than my PT B).
This is the best explanation I've seen of the 'pouring water' technique for lateral raises. If you look at the pictures and videos of Larry Scott doing laterals, you'll see that he only raised the rear part of dumbbells slightly. Vince Gironda (who taught Larry the technique) did the same.
Pinkies up can put your rotator cuff in a compromised position. Keeping your thumb slightly up is safer for your shoulders. Then, to work your mid delts instead of your front delts, just lean your torso forward 15-20 degrees until the force of gravity is going down directly on your mid delts and you feel the pump there. That way, you have healthy positioning and you are targeting your mid delts. I got this info from AthleanX, check out 5:20 (or the whole thing) of his video: Rotator Cuff Killer (SHOULDER LATERAL RAISES!)
Yeah it’s literally used by PT and doctors to test for rotator cuff injuries. It’s not a great motion for shoulder health, but a lot of people can get away with it I suppose. I’m never doing pinkies up regardless.
I’m glad someone else was thinking the same. It’s great to get insight from both the Jeff’s as well as RP. Those 3 give killer advice from different perspectives that you can use to take your gains to the next level
Your rotator cuffs are gonna stay trash if you avoid putting them to work. Just saying. Knees over toes guy explains it well. Got to train your joints in “compromised” positions
@@Playboyy1985 Take your time to understand the anatomy in this instance. Pinkies up causes the tendons of 2 of the rotator cuff muscles to pinch between the head of humerus and the acromion process. Over time these micro injuries can cause swelling and inflammation resulting in impingement and then tendonopathy or vice versa - long term damage stuff. Nothing to do with what kneesovertoesguy talks about. Training with pinkies up does nothing to strengthen rotator cuff. Rather keep a neutral shoulder rotation and lean forward slightly to target the middle delts.
so jealous of Jeff's ability to rotate from one to the other like that. My shoulders would make noises followed by stabbing pain that would last weeks.
@@Nidarru actually it is. There's a test literally called the "Empty can" test which is used to test for supraspinatus issues or subacromial pain syndrome. Don't lift this way lol. All it does is present more risk for little to no gain.
If you lean forward (say 30 degrees) with thumbs up you solve the problem and hit the side delts. Also helps with possible impingement as you keep the shoulder in external rotation
Can’t wait for The muscle Ladder. I am ordering it from South Africa. It is amazing how Jeff influences so many people around the world. #TheMuscleLadderTransformation
Thumps up on cables or a why raise variation will however let you hit your side delts and put your shoulder into a more open position getting rid of any pain or discomfort as it opens up the shoulder joint your side delts also insert into the front of your humours so the orientations of the fibers look a little like the rear delts but more from top to bottom on an angle towards your front humerus
Thanks for making this video. A lot of videos are telling that you should do the pinkies up but didn't say to switch to neutral palm when it causes you shoulder pain. I hurt my left shoulder because of it and couldn't do shoulder workout for a week. This hurt beginners especially since they still have a little knowledge and think that tutorials are always right even they feel pain doing workouts
Thank you! I’ve had this question. Pinkies up makes my shoulders pop and it started getting painful. I’m relieved to hear a more neutral position is still good for growth!
I travel and I'm somewhere without a gym right now so I've been doing long runs/walks with/without a pack. I'll be back in gym country after Christmas. I looooove the gym bro.
I would highly discurage doing the thumbs-up lateral raise in general. I tweaked my shoulder with them and I think front raises or shoulder presses are much more effective and safe for the front delt
I've worked fixing my posture, and my side delts are growing at a totally faster pace. Now I'm not allowing my rib cages to pop up when raising my arms, also I don't allow my shoulders to move forward. It's a game changer, even my pecs are developing way better, I extremely advice to research this out.
Or you could just angle your torso slightly forward so gravity is lined up to the middle delt, then you don't gotta rink shoulder injury while still reaping the same benefits
same here. much better for shoulder injuries. I’m thinking the thumbs up /external rotation version here would also be good for certain rotator issues.
I feel my side delts like crazy when my pinkies are pointing up and the elbows are at a higher height than my wrist. But sadly I feel my tendons rubbing against each other, so I don't do it. Slow progress is better than 2 months of recovery.
I've found that when I focus my grip on the pinkies and ring away from the index and thumb its naturally brings a slight pinkies up a few degrees without any impingement on my shoulders. Its a start
All I do now for shoulders is lateral raises . Back day I hit the rear delts. Chest day I hit the front delts. I don’t press as much anymore maybe every other week. I’ll throw lateral raises in every other day 4-8 sets to force growth on the side delts for that pop look.
something i realized about working out, to simplify things extremely, is that you basically want to hit everything from ever angle. for example, if you’re going a chest day, one way you could go about it is starting with decline bench, then standard bench, then incline bench. it’s the same idea in this video, that hitting all the angles will mean you’re hitting all the different parts/sections of the muscle you’re trying to train.
I externally rotate about 45 degrees, but I lean my torso forward and my arms are more in front of my body. This is much more comfortable on my shoulders and I still feel it on my side delts..
Plenty of other folks said it already but to re-iterate. Don't do pinkies up. The "Empty can" position is a test to test if your supraspinatus is compromised so why would you ever lift in that position? Just lean your torso slightly forward and tadah, you've now shifted the resistance to your side delts without putting your shoulder at more risk.
What do you think about Alex Leonidas saying that after 120 or 140 degree of shoulder flexion the lats do not experience tension,hence the stretch in these cases could not optimize hypertrophy.Could please do a video on the relationship of force applied by a muscle at each lenght, it could a new shiny topic and i can’t understand it quite well.
I will never do lateral raises with external rotation; I've always gotten pain and impingement from it. Just stick to normal lateral raises; trust me, an injury is depressing af.
In a video of Ryan humiston he explains, based on emg data, neutral palms still hit front delts most. Pinkies up and arms forward in a 45° angle hits side delts most (according to him). Preferably leaning on a bench in slight angle (chest supported).
I started doing them (really small, non-impressive weights btw) starting at bottom with knuckles in the front and then slightly/slowly rotatating the dumbells so I pass the 90° and continue all the way upp (180°) and there my knuckles would be facing back. I do 40 kg dumbellshruggs, strapped in, normally. With this exercise I am doing a pyramid to 8 kg and then down again. Just as tough...you just don't look as cool with he smaller weights. This way the shoulder movement feel smooth, especially since you are warming them up with the smaller weights going up the pyramid.
I've only ever done a neutral grip and never realised that pinkies up is a variation. I would never do thumbs up because it that would seem more like a great big giant curl, but out to the side.
Pump means nothing to muscles without the stretch. If something is not damaged then why should it be repaired? This is how body works: you stretch muscles with correct resistance according to your body, you create muscle teras which are the no1 reason for growth, then you also pump these muscles up in order for good blood flow so your body gets sent more resources aka energy to muscles so they can work harder and only when you rest your body recovers and builds muscles. Pump is not important without stretch also it does not matter if your pinkies are up or down if you switch your grip on the way down. Sorry Jeff but there is much more to it than just your contraction during exercise.
Jeff is an absolute unit!
He is so short bro
Yeah, Jeff Cavalier ❤
@@cannafarmerso what? Does it devalue his achievements?
Like you @@cannafarmer
@@tonyop8846 are you 5?
One of the best exercise for wider shoulders 🫡
Machine lateral raises are better
@@ferid9k Says who? Was there a study that showed better results with the machine?
the worst. i get shoulder clicking in my right shoulder because of this.
@@aperture0that does not make them the worst lol
it’s literally mid in jeff’s own tier list
Im so thankful rn.. after years of following, starting myself little journeys of research, intentional acknowledgement of what i do and why in the gym...
Its been a while that you dont post anything that i did not know nor i couldnt deduce. Youre a great teacher and a great inspiration Jeff!
I saw a video says “if u wanna grow your rear delta u should do pinkies down and thumbs up” now i know that its the opposite. Thanks for sharing these informations.
Rear delts? Yeah you should do pinkies down thumbs up. But Jeff is talking about side delts.
@@jeanpaul8854rewatch the video
@@jeanpaul8854did you miss the video bro? Not to mention you can feel the difference, thumbs up hits the front delt more, pinkies up hits the rear delt more.
@@jeanpaul8854Either you confused your writing, or you didn’t watch the video
Bro, stop confusing people
Jeff, I dont know why I never thought of this before, but thank you so much.
Its not true lol palms up is the best iso for mid delts
It’s common sense how haven’t you 😂
Impeccable timing
Remember watching this dude when I started working out glad to see he's still a high influence fitness instructor on TH-cam 👏
Doing them any other way than thumbs up causes shoulder pain. I do them thumbs up but I also do them leaned forward to shift the emphasis back onto the side delt
I've struggled with impingement issues and was advised by the PT to do the lateral raises with thumbs up and leaning forward as you have described. But if Jeff says this I'm conflicted, because Jeff can lift more than my PT B).
Thumb slightly up, bend forward to angle the torso. Keeps your shoulders safe, still hits the lateral delt
Exactly, athlean x style
@@Jan_nis2688athlean x Is a dumbahh, please stop Watching his videos, I learned the lesson too late
This is what I do. Pinkies up even slightly makes my wrists pop.
I bet you fear monger behind the neck presses as well
@@Jan_nis2688lmao probably worst take possible
Jeff I bought your book it’s amazing keep up the good work man!! 👏👍
This is the best explanation I've seen of the 'pouring water' technique for lateral raises. If you look at the pictures and videos of Larry Scott doing laterals, you'll see that he only raised the rear part of dumbbells slightly. Vince Gironda (who taught Larry the technique) did the same.
Shamed to say ive always wondered how to modify this raise for hitting side (and/or rear) delts. Much love and thanks Jeff.
You always answer the questions I never thought to ask. Great work Neff!
Finally a body builder with my height, this was my 1st time seeing your vids and subscribed bud
Pinkies up can put your rotator cuff in a compromised position. Keeping your thumb slightly up is safer for your shoulders. Then, to work your mid delts instead of your front delts, just lean your torso forward 15-20 degrees until the force of gravity is going down directly on your mid delts and you feel the pump there. That way, you have healthy positioning and you are targeting your mid delts.
I got this info from AthleanX, check out 5:20 (or the whole thing) of his video:
Rotator Cuff Killer (SHOULDER LATERAL RAISES!)
Yeah it’s literally used by PT and doctors to test for rotator cuff injuries. It’s not a great motion for shoulder health, but a lot of people can get away with it I suppose. I’m never doing pinkies up regardless.
I’m glad someone else was thinking the same. It’s great to get insight from both the Jeff’s as well as RP. Those 3 give killer advice from different perspectives that you can use to take your gains to the next level
The only worthwhile reply here
Your rotator cuffs are gonna stay trash if you avoid putting them to work. Just saying. Knees over toes guy explains it well. Got to train your joints in “compromised” positions
@@Playboyy1985 Take your time to understand the anatomy in this instance. Pinkies up causes the tendons of 2 of the rotator cuff muscles to pinch between the head of humerus and the acromion process. Over time these micro injuries can cause swelling and inflammation resulting in impingement and then tendonopathy or vice versa - long term damage stuff. Nothing to do with what kneesovertoesguy talks about. Training with pinkies up does nothing to strengthen rotator cuff.
Rather keep a neutral shoulder rotation and lean forward slightly to target the middle delts.
these vids are dope cause i like to superset different forms of the same exercise to rly blast a certain area, helps me make it to failure
I Absolutely Love this Detail Explanation
I think I just might actually honestly Love this guy he helped us so much
Man you're so intelligent ❤
He is
External Shoulder Rotation helps keep your shoulders healthy. Pinky's down Internal Rotation leads to shoulder impingement.
so jealous of Jeff's ability to rotate from one to the other like that. My shoulders would make noises followed by stabbing pain that would last weeks.
Hey bro take a look into exercising your rotator cuffs, Michelle also has bad shoulders
@@BarrackObama348feel like Michelle's back takes over in delt work. Thanks Barry boy
On of the best TH-cam channel for body building
You fill out that tank so well
That means it’s too small
Pinkies up is likely a good way to create a shoulder impingement without proper and perfect form for every rep.
It is not. Just allow your scapula to move naturally and don’t go too high
@@Nidarru actually it is. There's a test literally called the "Empty can" test which is used to test for supraspinatus issues or subacromial pain syndrome.
Don't lift this way lol. All it does is present more risk for little to no gain.
If you lean forward (say 30 degrees) with thumbs up you solve the problem and hit the side delts. Also helps with possible impingement as you keep the shoulder in external rotation
Can’t wait for The muscle Ladder. I am ordering it from South Africa. It is amazing how Jeff influences so many people around the world.
#TheMuscleLadderTransformation
@@dearanbull2558 good name. Jeff's got muscles and must always need a ladder...🙃
Thumps up on cables or a why raise variation will however let you hit your side delts and put your shoulder into a more open position getting rid of any pain or discomfort as it opens up the shoulder joint your side delts also insert into the front of your humours so the orientations of the fibers look a little like the rear delts but more from top to bottom on an angle towards your front humerus
Thanks for making this video. A lot of videos are telling that you should do the pinkies up but didn't say to switch to neutral palm when it causes you shoulder pain. I hurt my left shoulder because of it and couldn't do shoulder workout for a week.
This hurt beginners especially since they still have a little knowledge and think that tutorials are always right even they feel pain doing workouts
Great tip, Phil heath reccomends this technique as well 😊
Ive been getting Jeff's content suggested to me for months but this is the video that made me subscribe. I want them boulder shoulders.
Thank you! I’ve had this question. Pinkies up makes my shoulders pop and it started getting painful. I’m relieved to hear a more neutral position is still good for growth!
Thumbs up with slight hip hinge forward to target side delts more.
Lovin the stretch more than Sketch.
This guy and his angles
Basically, do it normally with proper form, slow eccentric, you're good to go 👍
Been watching your videos for months. HOW DID I FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE!!!!!!
Oh thank now got 3 new workout to do for my shoulders
Amazing tip
As far as ai know, doing pinkies up can put stress on your rotator cuff, so neutral palm is the best.
I can’t wait for your new book.
I travel and I'm somewhere without a gym right now so I've been doing long runs/walks with/without a pack. I'll be back in gym country after Christmas. I looooove the gym bro.
Thank you I needed this
I would highly discurage doing the thumbs-up lateral raise in general. I tweaked my shoulder with them and I think front raises or shoulder presses are much more effective and safe for the front delt
Neutral grip, lean forward ten degrees and use cables. Hold on the stretch.
I've worked fixing my posture, and my side delts are growing at a totally faster pace. Now I'm not allowing my rib cages to pop up when raising my arms, also I don't allow my shoulders to move forward.
It's a game changer, even my pecs are developing way better, I extremely advice to research this out.
What or who do you recommend to check out for this? Thanks
This was actually very helpful. I’ve been lifting thumbs up for years lol
Or you could just angle your torso slightly forward so gravity is lined up to the middle delt, then you don't gotta rink shoulder injury while still reaping the same benefits
Great explanation!!
Hey I've been working out for awhile off and on but there's been minimal progress. I'm 14 and this is my workout plan
Monday :chest and arms
Dumbell bench 5 16
Hex press 4 12
Wide Push-ups 3 8
Decline Push-ups 4 6
Diamond Push-ups 4 3
Incline Push-ups 4 12
Curls 4 15
Hammer curls 4 12
Tricep hammer thing 3 12
Forearm twists 4 20
Forearm curl 4 15
Tuesday :abbs and shoulders
100 decline situps
100 Russian twists
1:00 plank
Pull-up bar Leg raises 3 11
Shrugs 5 15
Lateral raises 4 12
Shoulder press 3 12
Wednesday : leg
weighted squats 3 12 10lbs
weighted squats 3 10 15lbs
Calf raises 4 12
Leg extensions 4 8
Lunges 4 12
Thursday :chest and arms
Dumbell bench 5 16
Hex press 4 12
Wide Push-ups 3 8
Decline Push-ups 4 6
Diamond Push-ups 4 3
Incline Push-ups 4 12
Curls 4 15
Hammer curls 4 12
Tricep hammer thing 3 12
Forearm twists 4 20
Forearm curl 4 15
Friday :abbs and shoulders
100 decline situps
100 Russian twists
1:00 plank
Pull-up bar Leg raises 3 11
Shrugs 5 15
Lateral raises 4 12
Shoulder press 3 12
Saturday: back
One arm back row 4 12
Chest supported row
Decline Pull up
Chin up
Decline chin up
Jump pull up
One arm cable Flys
Most of this is all 15 and 25 pound dumbells and a Pull-up bar am I doing anything wrong
Thumbs up but lean forward on an incline bench to shift resistance plane
I prefer doing lateral raises in a Y shape with a lot of control, feels the best by far.
same here. much better for shoulder injuries. I’m thinking the thumbs up /external rotation version here would also be good for certain rotator issues.
I feel my side delts like crazy when my pinkies are pointing up and the elbows are at a higher height than my wrist. But sadly I feel my tendons rubbing against each other, so I don't do it. Slow progress is better than 2 months of recovery.
I've found that when I focus my grip on the pinkies and ring away from the index and thumb its naturally brings a slight pinkies up a few degrees without any impingement on my shoulders. Its a start
Also always remember to lead with elbows very effective lot of people don’t know . I just found out from my coach huge difference
The one who got the ❌️ is the best strength exercises for one hand firearm accuracy.
All I do now for shoulders is lateral raises . Back day I hit the rear delts. Chest day I hit the front delts. I don’t press as much anymore maybe every other week. I’ll throw lateral raises in every other day 4-8 sets to force growth on the side delts for that pop look.
Can you do a video on tearing your muscle and how to not tear one
something i realized about working out, to simplify things extremely, is that you basically want to hit everything from ever angle. for example, if you’re going a chest day, one way you could go about it is starting with decline bench, then standard bench, then incline bench. it’s the same idea in this video, that hitting all the angles will mean you’re hitting all the different parts/sections of the muscle you’re trying to train.
I externally rotate about 45 degrees, but I lean my torso forward and my arms are more in front of my body. This is much more comfortable on my shoulders and I still feel it on my side delts..
That moment when you check a Jeff Nippard short inbetween sets to make sure you’re doing it right
Thank you for this, I was literally wondering about this in the gym yesterday
Hinging in and coming out with a wide Y movement with thumbs will hit your side and rear delts very well
I'd never recommend internally rotated shoulders for pulling movements when the elbows are being brought up chest height and further
Plenty of other folks said it already but to re-iterate. Don't do pinkies up. The "Empty can" position is a test to test if your supraspinatus is compromised so why would you ever lift in that position?
Just lean your torso slightly forward and tadah, you've now shifted the resistance to your side delts without putting your shoulder at more risk.
love you jeff thanks
i was nonchalantly wondering this, ty for the chill reel
Nonchalantly? Lol
Thank you for the great information
Thank you. Gonna try this today
I’ll take a side of delt
Best information as always!
Why u say that? Have u seriously checked other sources??
What do you think about Alex Leonidas saying that after 120 or 140 degree of shoulder flexion the lats do not experience tension,hence the stretch in these cases could not optimize hypertrophy.Could please do a video on the relationship of force applied by a muscle at each lenght, it could a new shiny topic and i can’t understand it quite well.
I will never do lateral raises with external rotation; I've always gotten pain and impingement from it. Just stick to normal lateral raises; trust me, an injury is depressing af.
Those feel best indeed.
In a video of Ryan humiston he explains, based on emg data, neutral palms still hit front delts most. Pinkies up and arms forward in a 45° angle hits side delts most (according to him). Preferably leaning on a bench in slight angle (chest supported).
pinkies up is also how Physical Therapists test for supraspinatus issues and subacromial pain syndrome lol.
Don't lift with pinkies up.
You forget to say that instead of rotating shoulder you can bent over a little bit
Always wondered if you could do a nutrition video.
Studies show that the difference in side delt activation of these two variations is like 5/10%. Do whatever doesn't bother your shoulders.
Never knew this was a choice, always did neutral bc I assumed it was the only right way to do these, lol
Even more important than that, should the elbows be stretched or bent a little? That’s the most common mistake I see.
Good knowledge.
Jeff Nippard is the man.
Thx 4 that tip, will apply that effective Immediately
It's always the hardest version 😂
I started doing them (really small, non-impressive weights btw) starting at bottom with knuckles in the front and then slightly/slowly rotatating the dumbells so I pass the 90° and continue all the way upp (180°) and there my knuckles would be facing back.
I do 40 kg dumbellshruggs, strapped in, normally.
With this exercise I am doing a pyramid to 8 kg and then down again. Just as tough...you just don't look as cool with he smaller weights.
This way the shoulder movement feel smooth, especially since you are warming them up with the smaller weights going up the pyramid.
Interesting and fascinating
I've only ever done a neutral grip and never realised that pinkies up is a variation. I would never do thumbs up because it that would seem more like a great big giant curl, but out to the side.
Love you Jeffrey
Spot on.
Ty jeff
Pinkies up babes 💅🏽
I disagree, but still cool.
Elaborate, pls?
@@xthe_nojx5820 It's a sex bot, don't bother
@xthe_nojx5820 Because they think it will increase Injury risk. But it doesn't as long as it's not painful.
Hi, what part of it do you disagree with, please? What's your opinion?
@@carlodonn8983 It is a bot, guys. I don't know why my earlier comment was deleted
The way he flexed asking us to subscribe felt like a threat lol
I do the thumbs up, but I lean forward a little bit so that my side delt will still be emphasized
I love how he flexes at the end to almost remind us that he is actually an absolute unit and not just a genius xD
Can we just appreciate the isometric hold he’s performing while speaking?
Hey Jeff please teach us about home workout exercises
I do mine neutral and it also works my abs and my calves
Always with the pinky up
Pump means nothing to muscles without the stretch. If something is not damaged then why should it be repaired? This is how body works: you stretch muscles with correct resistance according to your body, you create muscle teras which are the no1 reason for growth, then you also pump these muscles up in order for good blood flow so your body gets sent more resources aka energy to muscles so they can work harder and only when you rest your body recovers and builds muscles. Pump is not important without stretch also it does not matter if your pinkies are up or down if you switch your grip on the way down. Sorry Jeff but there is much more to it than just your contraction during exercise.
Good video
markus rühl calling it "pouring a glass of beer" :D