@@Rolingmetal I hear you on that! I have not touched the collet set since the video but I might be need to use them here real soon on a upcoming project. I'm thinking the collet chuck nut is some if not most of the problem. did you ever get your to run true?
@@RaysGarage I did regrind the collet chuck but without knows good collets it's hard to pinpoint where the problems are. You're right it could be the nut but the collet thread on the chuck is also a suspect. Anyway, I've given up :)
I can't wait until you discover CNC. Greatest thing ever, it enables you to fail both quickly and cheaply. Not to mention the enclosure keeps the shop clean and most of the coolant off of you.
Mr RM, Me and you will have a trial separation if you make that noise with your VFD, I had headphones on! When I unplugged them the wife went running down the garden path! Great videos can't wait for part 2. From Coventry UK.
I learn the hard way also. My suggestion is to break that edge on that pin before you try to test the fit, with a file or even with a slight bevel. Same on the hole, and make absolutely sure all of the chips/honing dust is blown out. I found that on the start of a cut or hole, sometimes a slight upset (burr) occurs. Very slight, very short, barely detectable, but enough to really throw you off when the fit is critical. You might consider trying a vertical shear tool and multiple spring passes for your finish cuts on your pin. If you don't know about those, Mr. Pete did some videos on them.
They say that's the best way to learn. I'm not sure, I seem to be good a making the same mistake. I think I need to come up with a plan to polish the inside bore a little better. Polishing the pin shouldn't be a problem
Hi RM. Well on the bright side you got the fit very very close. If something similar ever happens again and you have the room Drill and thread a hole for a grease fitting then use a grease gun to force the rod out. Just make sure to wear eye ,face and hand protection. I have used that method before to save hard to find part's that have seized. Has always I Liked,Shared and added to Playlists. All my best.
I was close and I did hear it pop which is comforting :) I actually considered the plan you' re suggesting. I have all the materials, and there is room on the back of the taper for a fitting. But I didn't think I would work. I think if it had come out it would still have damaged the bore.
Hi Roling, I can tell you why. Steel on steel with no oil and no clearance. Next time you are thinking about doing it again stop! I was actually sitting here wondering if you could stick one again 😀 If you had a few hundreds clearance and some oil you would probably have been ok with this one as it doesn’t spin. When I’m taping a hole in the lathe I just use a revolving centre but a dead centre would do. Use a spanner on the square of the tap and wind the tailstock in as you go. I’m not convinced the spring will be strong enough to hold the point in the back of the tap. That will be interesting to see. By the way the pointy bit on the head stock end is called a live centre. The one in the tailstock is a dead or revolving centre if it is a spinning one on bearings. Even a fail is a learning experience good on you for posting it anyway and I look forward to a success 😀
I did use some WD40. You could see it bubbling on the sides of the pin. But it probably wasn't enough. Pushed it in a bit to far gave it a twist and it seized up. I guess I got impatience. My second attempt seems to be fitting pretty good. Almost finished :) I also got my doubts about that spring. We'll see how it goes.
I think you are right it was probably just zero clearance and it seized. Looks like you are good at making Morse Tapers. I have never tried to do that. One thing that came back to me while watching your video was an old rule about reaming. Use half the speed and twice the feed that you would use drilling. It is good to see you turning between centres. I think this is a forgotten skill. You can take your work piece out or turn it around or do a test fit and it will run perfectly true when you put it back. Put a shim on your drive dog and you won’t get any chuck jaw marks on your work either. I remember making a crank shaft from a solid bar, between centres when I was at college. Don’t forget to play with increased rake angle when you are getting chatter or poor finish. That weld probably hardened your scraptoneium so you probably had no hope of a nice finish right out in the middle of the bar. 😀
@@fabiankirschner9982 If you would like to send me a link to your 'TH-cam' machining videos, i will have a look and compare the two. If yours is better then I will bow down to your obviously far superior technical abilities.
rM, Well, you are consistent. For this to be a success you are going to have to enlarge the bore considerably. As a spring compresses it enlarges in diameter so there must be room for that expansion or the spring won’t compress adequately to provide the tension on the center. You should be able to stand the part upright and drop the spring in, tip it up and it should fall out. Don’t go overboard here but the spring should move freely. Just make the center to fit the larger diameter of the bore.
This I know very well rM. I’m currently on the third rebuild of my metal lathe stand. I want it to look at least semi professional. The first try I had it almost finished and dropped a dye cutter on top and cut a gash clear across the top. 2nd try, new design wasn’t practical. This third try might work out as far as design but in the process of wiring up the speed control I reversed a couple of wires and toasted the PCB and had to order a new one. Here in the US we call these occurrences “A Bozo”. This is derived from a character on TV called “Bozo the Clown” who was continuously making screwups. When some well planned or not so well planned venture goes wrong we simply state Bozo has paid a visit to the shop. In reality this is a convenient way to make an excuse for whatever mistake we have made. Thing is, whether our fault or not we don’t let it stop further ventures. Hopefully we learned a bit and do better the next time. I enjoy your channel. (By the way, if that spring had fallen onto my shop floor it would be in an alternate dimension, never to be seen again.)
Stick with it mate, I got the shits yesterday but I didn’t try and save the piece I just can’t find it now, I think it’s landed on Pluto, at least I hope the barstard did, Great video mate looking forward to episode 2, cheers Matty
"This spring is rather stiff" *sprint flies away. Goes searching. Comes back* "This spring is rather soft" .... This was what i thought would happen. :-)
We would enjoy watching the making of a spring loaded center and with effort a hole that creates a vacuum when removing it. 10mm nice when you share sizes helps us compare view to size thank you. Sounds nice you got your hole diameter righter only real close so to tight. Sad lets build another one and get it right you can do it. LOL.
Dear Rolling Metal, when drilling a blind hole in any part you MUST clear your swarf regularly say every 10 mm (3/8"). Its imperative to getting a good finish inside. That's probably why the spring did not want to go into the 11.5 mm hole after you drilled it. Also when you tried to "screw" in the spring you were turning it the wrong way thus trying to unwind the spring causing it to bind up. Even when using the reamer the first time you rammed it down full length without clearing it at all. Swarf (chips) is the enemy of a good finish. And as for the end? Well as we say in England - "Shit Happens!"
It was stupid of meto try and fit a 11mm spring in a 11mm hole. The spring need room for some expansion. It now sits in a 11.5mm hole and that works fine.
Rolingmetal my apologies i thought you were trying to fit it into a 11.5 mm hole ! But even so the spring should not expand sideways when under load a great deal. And even ten thou ( sorry i still think in imperial even though i taught metalwork in metric) clearance should be enough to stop the spring from binding up. I still stand by my statement though, metal swarf is the enemy of a good finish.
yee a two part, i must agree with you. cheap chinese tools is your worst enemy. i need to make the same tool, but now i can fix my one by looking at your so called "miss fortune" keep up with the great ideas and great work..... chin up.
Yeah that must be it. Payback for all that success :) Next week I'm planning to do a little bit of cross drilling. But this weekend the Allen Bradley will sing again. I'm in the Netherlands. It's not that cold, but cold enough to not stand around in an unheated shop for a long time. I think it was 4 or 5 degrees inside and minus 3 outside. Today it was +8 but the winds blowing hard and that's actually worse in the old barn.
25:30 oh no.. why you cut it? it could be a happy ending video with little more work on the shaft. talk about nasty word, why you don't make video mistake you've done, you know, some people like me learn from mistake
I thought that would be the best way to save the pin I turned. And I can still use the taper. It's just a bit shorter now. You mean make a compilation video about all that went wrong? It would be a tedious job to go though all that footage.
@@Rolingmetal I forgot it stuck on the bore. yeah like machinist get stressed and cursing fun video but after re-review for what I suggested I find out I've made stupid suggestion, sorry about that
First off, you're doing it wrong :) No-idea-what-it-is steel is generally a bad starting point for anything. Next up, if you're wanting holes that are on centre, straight, and, above all parallel, you want to be turning the piece, with drills and reamers held in the tailstock. And even then you need to be careful, especially with that horribly-out-of-round reamer. Shitty tools will mostly get you a shitty result - I'll echo vdub's comment on getting some non-chinesium (or, at least, some reasonable quality chinesium) tooling. That reamer's total shit, bin it. Also check that the pin you turned is *absolutely* parallel along it's length. dead easy to have a piece of swarf or crap that knocks your cross slide off by a tiny smidgery, and before you know it, you're turning tapers.
Welcome to my world my friend, only difference is that you have way more patience's that I do!
Hi Ray, How your Banggood collet set :)
More perseverance maybe. But it's the lack of patience that gets me in trouble.
@@Rolingmetal I hear you on that! I have not touched the collet set since the video but I might be need to use them here real soon on a upcoming project. I'm thinking the collet chuck nut is some if not most of the problem. did you ever get your to run true?
@@RaysGarage I did regrind the collet chuck but without knows good collets it's hard to pinpoint where the problems are.
You're right it could be the nut but the collet thread on the chuck is also a suspect. Anyway, I've given up :)
"The spring it' rather stiff... And probably lost forever"
You got me there, I was giggling like a moron, nice one :D
The springs are like the money. Fly away very fast. jajaja
I Feel Your Pain watching you is like watching me trying to get things right keep at it thanks for the videos
Good to know I'm not the only screw-up out there. Maybe we should start a support group :)
I can't wait until you discover CNC. Greatest thing ever, it enables you to fail both quickly and cheaply. Not to mention the enclosure keeps the shop clean and most of the coolant off of you.
quickly but not always cheaply
Yeah, thats not going to happen soon, I'm not AVE :)
Aan je tongval te horen, ben je een Nederlander. Ik moet zeggen dat je erg goed Engels spreekt voor een techneut. Hou vol. Amusante video's.
Als je iets maar lang genoeg doet wordt je er vanzelf goed in. Hopelijk is dat ook waar voor mijn metaalbewerkings vaardigheden :)
All my feelings of inadequacy are gone.......thank you!
That's great. And my frustration levels have settled down nicely :)
Mr RM,
Me and you will have a trial separation if you make that noise with your VFD, I had headphones on! When I unplugged them the wife went running down the garden path!
Great videos can't wait for part 2. From Coventry UK.
Next part same VFD so you better warn the wife. (or not)
Up from the ashes grow the roses of success. You'll get there, and know what not to do next time.
That's so true.
I learn the hard way also. My suggestion is to break that edge on that pin before you try to test the fit, with a file or even with a slight bevel. Same on the hole, and make absolutely sure all of the chips/honing dust is blown out. I found that on the start of a cut or hole, sometimes a slight upset (burr) occurs. Very slight, very short, barely detectable, but enough to really throw you off when the fit is critical.
You might consider trying a vertical shear tool and multiple spring passes for your finish cuts on your pin. If you don't know about those, Mr. Pete did some videos on them.
They say that's the best way to learn. I'm not sure, I seem to be good a making the same mistake.
I think I need to come up with a plan to polish the inside bore a little better.
Polishing the pin shouldn't be a problem
Hi RM. Well on the bright side you got the fit very very close. If something similar ever happens again and you have the room Drill and thread a hole for a grease fitting then use a grease gun to force the rod out. Just make sure to wear eye ,face and hand protection. I have used that method before to save hard to find part's that have seized. Has always I Liked,Shared and added to Playlists.
All my best.
I was close and I did hear it pop which is comforting :)
I actually considered the plan you' re suggesting. I have all the materials, and there is room on the back of the taper for a fitting. But I didn't think I would work.
I think if it had come out it would still have damaged the bore.
Hi Roling,
I can tell you why. Steel on steel with no oil and no clearance. Next time you are thinking about doing it again stop!
I was actually sitting here wondering if you could stick one again 😀
If you had a few hundreds clearance and some oil you would probably have been ok with this one as it doesn’t spin.
When I’m taping a hole in the lathe I just use a revolving centre but a dead centre would do. Use a spanner on the square of the tap and wind the tailstock in as you go. I’m not convinced the spring will be strong enough to hold the point in the back of the tap. That will be interesting to see.
By the way the pointy bit on the head stock end is called a live centre. The one in the tailstock is a dead or revolving centre if it is a spinning one on bearings.
Even a fail is a learning experience good on you for posting it anyway and I look forward to a success 😀
I did use some WD40. You could see it bubbling on the sides of the pin. But it probably wasn't enough.
Pushed it in a bit to far gave it a twist and it seized up. I guess I got impatience. My second attempt seems to be fitting pretty good. Almost finished :)
I also got my doubts about that spring. We'll see how it goes.
I think you are right it was probably just zero clearance and it seized.
Looks like you are good at making Morse Tapers. I have never tried to do that.
One thing that came back to me while watching your video was an old rule about reaming.
Use half the speed and twice the feed that you would use drilling.
It is good to see you turning between centres. I think this is a forgotten skill.
You can take your work piece out or turn it around or do a test fit and it will run perfectly true when you put it back.
Put a shim on your drive dog and you won’t get any chuck jaw marks on your work either.
I remember making a crank shaft from a solid bar, between centres when I was at college.
Don’t forget to play with increased rake angle when you are getting chatter or poor finish.
That weld probably hardened your scraptoneium so you probably had no hope of a nice finish right out in the middle of the bar.
😀
Great video and even better commentary - Glad to hear you are over the Man Flu
#Metoo. all the dripping!
"Great Video" are you seriouse
@@fabiankirschner9982 If you would like to send me a link to your 'TH-cam' machining videos, i will have a look and compare the two. If yours is better then I will bow down to your obviously far superior technical abilities.
rM,
Well, you are consistent.
For this to be a success you are going to have to enlarge the bore considerably. As a spring compresses it enlarges in diameter so there must be room for that expansion or the spring won’t compress adequately to provide the tension on the center. You should be able to stand the part upright and drop the spring in, tip it up and it should fall out. Don’t go overboard here but the spring should move freely. Just make the center to fit the larger diameter of the bore.
Thanks. Constancy and persistence can be good trades. They can also screw you over :)
This I know very well rM. I’m currently on the third rebuild of my metal lathe stand. I want it to look at least semi professional. The first try I had it almost finished and dropped a dye cutter on top and cut a gash clear across the top. 2nd try, new design wasn’t practical. This third try might work out as far as design but in the process of wiring up the speed control I reversed a couple of wires and toasted the PCB and had to order a new one. Here in the US we call these occurrences “A Bozo”. This is derived from a character on TV called “Bozo the Clown” who was continuously making screwups. When some well planned or not so well planned venture goes wrong we simply state Bozo has paid a visit to the shop. In reality this is a convenient way to make an excuse for whatever mistake we have made.
Thing is, whether our fault or not we don’t let it stop further ventures. Hopefully we learned a bit and do better the next time.
I enjoy your channel.
(By the way, if that spring had fallen onto my shop floor it would be in an alternate dimension, never to be seen again.)
Check the run-out of those reamers shank-neck. I beleive this is the problem and you get 12.23mm...
Stick with it mate, I got the shits yesterday but I didn’t try and save the piece I just can’t find it now, I think it’s landed on Pluto, at least I hope the barstard did, Great video mate looking forward to episode 2, cheers Matty
Thanks Mat.
"This spring is rather stiff" *sprint flies away. Goes searching. Comes back*
"This spring is rather soft" ....
This was what i thought would happen. :-)
you should come here to Texas it was 80 deg. today partly cloudy. wearing short pants and tee shirt.
80 degrees Fahrenheit that's above my comfort zone to do some actual work. But you are probably used to it.
damn, mr. Bozo and all his friends must be living in your workshop :)
Maybe his Dutch cousin, because I don't know mr. Bonzo.
U should add "in the hard way" to the title :)))
Keep it up dude!
Great video . Why not use a boring bar and make the hole larger
Then I would need to use the chuck and there's too much runout in my 3 jaw.
Rolingmetal no four jaw chuck ?
No backing plate :)
We would enjoy watching the making of a spring loaded center and with effort a hole that creates a vacuum when removing it. 10mm nice when you share sizes helps us compare view to size thank you. Sounds nice you got your hole diameter righter only real close so to tight. Sad lets build another one and get it right you can do it. LOL.
Holland Nederland (Europe)
Then you better come back for the second part. It's going to be amazing, I think. Still have to make it :)
Dear Rolling Metal, when drilling a blind hole in any part you MUST clear your swarf regularly say every 10 mm (3/8"). Its imperative to getting a good finish inside. That's probably why the spring did not want to go into the 11.5 mm hole after you drilled it. Also when you tried to "screw" in the spring you were turning it the wrong way thus trying to unwind the spring causing it to bind up. Even when using the reamer the first time you rammed it down full length without clearing it at all. Swarf (chips) is the enemy of a good finish. And as for the end? Well as we say in England - "Shit Happens!"
It was stupid of meto try and fit a 11mm spring in a 11mm hole.
The spring need room for some expansion. It now sits in a 11.5mm hole and that works fine.
Rolingmetal my apologies i thought you were trying to fit it into a 11.5 mm hole ! But even so the spring should not expand sideways when under load a great deal. And even ten thou ( sorry i still think in imperial even though i taught metalwork in metric) clearance should be enough to stop the spring from binding up. I still stand by my statement though, metal swarf is the enemy of a good finish.
You're cured! :)
Yes, no more running nose and another failure. It's business as usual in the tool temple.
It's not a failure if you're trying. It's more like... an alternate route to success. :)@@Rolingmetal
yee a two part, i must agree with you. cheap chinese tools is your worst enemy. i need to make the same tool, but now i can fix my one by looking at your so called "miss fortune" keep up with the great ideas and great work..... chin up.
Trust me, I can screw up with the most expensive tools ever made. So I better break the cheap ones first :)
There's a lot to be said for winging it.
Your back....... last weeks video just went to good.. i hope not to hear the vfd next week. What part of the world are you in for it to be so cold?
Yeah that must be it. Payback for all that success :)
Next week I'm planning to do a little bit of cross drilling. But this weekend the Allen Bradley will sing again.
I'm in the Netherlands. It's not that cold, but cold enough to not stand around in an unheated shop for a long time. I think it was 4 or 5 degrees inside and minus 3 outside.
Today it was +8 but the winds blowing hard and that's actually worse in the old barn.
You have a cunning plan? So cunning you could brush your teeth with it?
Too much Blackadder :)
Who knew a machine comedy would be more entertaining than Netflix or soft porn !
lol
faltou Malícia ai em Filho !
25:30 oh no.. why you cut it? it could be a happy ending video with little more work on the shaft. talk about nasty word, why you don't make video mistake you've done, you know, some people like me learn from mistake
I thought that would be the best way to save the pin I turned.
And I can still use the taper. It's just a bit shorter now.
You mean make a compilation video about all that went wrong?
It would be a tedious job to go though all that footage.
@@Rolingmetal I forgot it stuck on the bore. yeah like machinist get stressed and cursing fun video but after re-review for what I suggested I find out I've made stupid suggestion, sorry about that
First off, you're doing it wrong :)
No-idea-what-it-is steel is generally a bad starting point for anything. Next up, if you're wanting holes that are on centre, straight, and, above all parallel, you want to be turning the piece, with drills and reamers held in the tailstock. And even then you need to be careful, especially with that horribly-out-of-round reamer. Shitty tools will mostly get you a shitty result - I'll echo vdub's comment on getting some non-chinesium (or, at least, some reasonable quality chinesium) tooling. That reamer's total shit, bin it.
Also check that the pin you turned is *absolutely* parallel along it's length. dead easy to have a piece of swarf or crap that knocks your cross slide off by a tiny smidgery, and before you know it, you're turning tapers.
If it wasn't for bad luck you wouldn't have any luck :-(
I take any luck I can get :)
CalIing this stuff i dont even know what your doing machining is beyond bs
I'm sorry. But I have no idea what you are trying to say with that sentence. Looks like random words to me.
Thanks for your totally useless and negative comment :)
Got try and talk someone else down. atb
@@Rolingmetal im just telling you that all you are doing is wrong🤣