Get this thing built ASAP. I’ve spent countless hours in traffic at Dartford crossing over the last 20 years! Why do infrastructure projects take so long to do in the Uk??
Oh, just soooo many reasons..... The destruction of a national park for one, and the extreme cost and difficulties of construction across the woohead pass for another. If anything is built it is far more likely to be higher speed rail routes between Manchester and Sheffield.
Matt H we’ll get that built then. They need to do something. The north is crying out for some sort of serious investment. This country extends a lot further then Watford you know.
Burns Night I’m very aware, and it’s currently in the planning stages, as is the 2nd phase of HS2, the trans Pennines route upgrade and the rollout of about 1000 new trains across the northern cities.
Ryan Fitzpatrick You can’t run a 4 lane road through rail tunnels 😂. The larger one isn’t even tall enough for trucks 2 to pass through and would require substantial ventilation alterations to be safe for a single lane of cars. The two single tunnels could maybe fit one lane of traffic if you don’t mind breaking down and not being able to get out your car..... While yes, you’re correct about it’s journey through Manchester it would be a very difficult build and extremely costly. Coupled with road projects through urban centres being pretty much political suicide and it’s not going to happen. Best thing for connectivity would be reopening the Woodhead route to rail and even that’s a stretch.
Under-built before it is off the drawing board. Why only 3 lanes? The M25 needed 3-4 lanes, this new road should be built with 5 lanes in each direction - why only half do the job and then spend the next twenty years upgrading it because it is inadequate just like the northern half of the M25 was with two lane stretches.
@@swinger9374 Yes but curiously its the only one? and at 5.19 there is what looks like laybys or emergency stopping areas, which you wouldn't need if the road had hard shoulders.
PMSL! By the time it's finished the section of the M25 it's joining will be as congested as the western section. A127, A12 area is already getting bad now. How about extending the M11 to Blackwall. Redeveloping Blackwall tunnel and extend the M2 the other side! Simples
Dave Charles that is certainly a very good idea, but there’s a slight problem. If these roads were built they couldn’t be motorway as it would be owned by TFL and they cannot run motorways in London, hence why the M41, A40(M) and A102(M) all disappeared in 2000
Matthew Howe the motorway could easily be handed back to Highways England. The M4 works in Brentford well within the TFL zone and the LEZ, and so it would make a lot of sense to extend the M11 along an upgraded A12 carriageway, down to the Blackwall Tunnel which is widened or supplemented with additional tunnels, and then the motorway flows out to the old A102M and down an upgraded A2 corridor to the M2. The A14 from Cambridge to Huntingdon as well as the M11 will have a free flow route to the M2 and can be put into one number, with a continuous link from Huntingdon and the A1 to Kent bypassing the M25 with various urban interchanges for the Olympic Park, Greenwich etc. it would be highly helpful for alleviating traffic alongside LTC and would take a lot of pressure off of the M25. The entire road can operate with hard shoulder running and stopped vehicle detection, alongside variable speed limits and upgraded MS4 variable message signs.
All very well scooping up tonnes of countryside and pouring in even more tonnes of concrete but when the M25 gets blocked it always means the A130 through Chelmsford is the only escape route north and that doesnt do heavy traffic as it flows through several housing estates. Maybe route planners should cut of their own arms and see where the satnav takes them??
Great video and looking forward to it built. Will greatly help the congestion for those of us who live in the area. Why only 3 lanes though and not 4 like the M25 and existing Dartford Crossing?
I think it is very short sighted to make it 3+3 with no hard shoulder. I know they mentioned smart motorway technology; but it you are blasting a very expensive road through a very expensive part of the country, you might as well make it worth the while with some contingency.
@@hufforguk I agree. Otherwise in 10-15 years time they'll just need to spend a load of money again to widen it. Similarly to when they widened the M25 from 3 lanes to 4, they should have had a bit more foresight and gone for 5!
The Lower Thames Crossing is not doing the same job as the M25, they are not comparable. The LTC is conceived as a relief road for the Dartford Crossing, it is not designed to replace it. By their own statistics the amount of traffic on a D2 road would not exceed the design capacity until 2040, so a D3 road is easily sufficient for the length of time we continue to use motor vehicles.
Also, a D3 tunnel is the best as any wider would be very expensive and challenging and quad two-lane tunnels would probably have height restrictions like Dartford.
OK, so, the signs are blue, but there's three lanes with no hard shoulder, and precious little horizontal room for future expansion in a lot of places ... so is it a motorway, or isn't it? Can't help thinking it might have been a better idea to join it on to the existing system north of the Thames just a little further up, and that the current proposal may ease things at Dartford (and provide a handy diversion should that need to be closed) but partly only because the amount of traffic that can get through to the existing crossing will be handicapped by greater congestion around where the LTC meets the M25. Seems it would have offered more genuinely useful capacity by extending at least as far north as the A12, if not M11, instead of barely scratching its semi-segregated way to the A127. And maybe crossing over the M2 for a few miles to the south to offer a proper motorway standard link down to the M20 as well. I mean, joining on to the M25 itself is a bit questionable, but I assume the idea is that traffic from all points north, as well as the very northern end of the capital, heading towards Dover and Folkestone (or vice versa) is meant to use the new road, whereas anyone from the rest of the city (and country) and/or is heading to/bound from other places in the south (...on a route that involves going somewhere near London) will continue using either the Dartford crossing, or the western arm of the M25 as appropriate, so it should still have some benefit in that regard, instead of trying to squeeze everything travelling on both the A2/M2/M20 as well as around the lower orbital to the A21/M23/M3 etc through the same 4-lane toll bridge/tunnel. Sort of like what the M20 did for the M26, but more effective. Also, loving the American vehicle presets for the model, and how erratic some of the drivers are. It's like it's been built in Truck Simulator with the wrong data pack or something.
If this does get built I have a few suggestions, 1) Why not make it 4 or 5 lanes plus a hard shoulder rather than a "smart" because in 10 years it'll have to be widened, 2) why not have it split on the Northern end where one side goes on the proposed route to the M25 and the other side extends out to the A12 or even the M11, it would be a massive corner cut for those in Essex and would relieve more roads such as A12, A127 etc and 3) why not have it extend south to the M20 because it would be a massive convenience for people going from the North to the Channel tunnel and Dover and again would cut a corner on peoples journeys.
Great Video. This will be a new smart motorway running from the M25 at North Ockendon near J29 to the A2(M2 motorway) between Gravesend and Rochester Kent. ? 14.5 miles of new LTC smart motorway should be called the M22 Motorway. I am surprised at the A2 4 lanes dual carriageway with hard shoulders between London Borough of Bexley and Rochester Kent never been reclassify as a full M2 Motorway as part of the extension to the M25 Motorway and London Borough of Bexley ?.
@@jamesparsons8593 Watling Street, which is where the 4 lane bit of the A2 runs along between Ebbsfleet and Strood has historically always been a thoroughfare for anyone, but now it is more for allowing tractors and other traffic from the local area to use it without interrupting motorway traffic (M25 to M2 and vice versa). This would mean that for the M2 to be extended to the M25 or even into London, technically you would need to build a new road running alongside to allow for local traffic and other vehicles which are generally banned from using motorways and roads declared as Special Roads, similar to how a single carriageway runs alongside the A1(M) in Northern England so that local traffic doesn’t have to interrupt with motorway traffic. Hope this helps explain why this bit of the A2 isn’t motorway!
My home overlooks the North Kent marshes that will be devastated by this work. Funny how the leaflet I have just received through the door refers to 'consultation' and 'before we apply for the planning consent' when everyone knows it is a done deal, and every day I see the local fields already being churned up by surveyors, access tracks, site huts etc. Also rather curious how the A13 was widened a few years ago with a certain roundabout having an exit that goes nowhere - but will join up with this 'proposed' project. The Gillingham junction at A2/M2 already skirts this area taking traffic to the Medway Tunnel - how come an option to extend this existing infrastructure and tunnel across at this point wasn't considered? But then I also wonder why I bother even responding to the questionnaires I receive - recent local road 'improvements' in Gravesend and Strood have only worsened traffic; they managed to have all this going at the same time as gas and Virgin works, crippling local roads. Co-ordination skills already shown to be lacking, doubt if this project will be any better. And oh, yes, agree with other comments that the scheme is rather contradictory to the Government's alleged focus on improving public transport, get people off the roads, reduce pollution etc etc
5:28 Notice how much land has been allocated for widening. What's the mitigation for all this extra pollution? It's going look so much better with all those housing estates built right up to it. What are those insignificant ribbon hedges over the bridges supposed to achieve? A bit of decoration perhaps?
The obvious plan would have been to run north of the Thames to link up with the A130, then build an outer M25 between Chelmsford and the M1, instead of feeding them back on to the already overloaded M25. Still, let's spend all that money on a 3rd railway line between Birmingham and London instead. I would also assume the plan factors in the 30 mile queue to get an onward visa at Dover.
The M1 doesnt even go to Birmingham and unless youre planning on building another 8-10 lane motorway instead then HS2 is the better way to go for north - south connectivity.
Will this be updated showing 6 lanes of gridlocked traffic plus the surrounding roads also all jammed? Oh and the poor air quality? Bye bye more countryside. Thought we were trying to get more cars off the road than on it!
I’m afraid those people at HE and the Government have little knowledge of our local roads. When there are problems on the M25, it filters through to local roads and paralyses our local network. How come we have to suffer another major road? Surely this road would have been better to go further up, towards Canvey perhaps? Even out the score a bit, we have Dartford crossing that is enough to contend with! Also, HE if you are going to link Essex and Kent together again, why do you not have a railway doing so? Everything these days HAS to go by road, it’s ridiculous. Pollution does not appear to come into the equation at all. I cannot believe in this day and age we have no railway linking Essex to Kent. The ridiculous thing is you have to travel into London, in order to link up to Kent! Infrastructure in this country is pretty shite!
It would seem really that if they're going to go to the trouble of building all those tunnels and bridges, they could probably include an additional portal & decking, or widen out the proposed ones a bit, and fit a new rail connection through there. Just have an extra set of points on HS1 and open up the cross channel services to Essex and East Anglia... It's generally not that much more expensive to add extra capacity or modalities in that way when doing the original build, certain vs tacking them on or making a whole new parallel line later.
Forgot to show the tolls! To encourage us to use this new tunnel, they will impose a toll at the Blackwall tunnel. This means if you leave to the east or south east of London, you will have to pay to cross the Thames whilst those in central or west London can still cross for free. Still, on the bright side, by the time they’ve got their act together it’ll be another 10 or 15 years before anything happens anyway.
I think it's going to be motorway, so yes, a special road. Not sure what the number will be (it probably hasn't been decided yet), but I'd support M15. No silly Ax(M) though as there's no corresponding A-road for the route.
I can imagine HE pitifully numbering the new Road A2820 or A282(M); but let's hope that's not the case. Indeed A1... would be consistent with the numbering system
If its a motorway it would be M2X (X being a number that's yet to be decided) or A2X. This is because the area here is Zone 2 and would, therefore, be start with 2. But I think it is a motorway, be very surprised if it isn't
For me the answer is the railway next to the A2. Whilst I agree the Dartford crossing needs to be addressed, it's just another project by developers that lacks foresight. I already live in the south east/eastern England and believe me developers just build for a quick buck. The money invested would be better to improve existing congested motorways and crossing, maybe the A2 should be made into a motorway, M11 Essex should be 3/lanes north of Stansted.. getting freight onto the railways would be better, then again the lack of foresight from this government and many previous to that has hampered that
@@jamesparsons8593 the A2 between the M25 and M2 didn't become a motorway because people argued that there would be no alternative for non-motorway traffic to take despite the A206 running parallel to the current A2
The amount of trees that have been added are very deceiving, it'll take decades before it looks like that. In fact, you show hundreds of 20-30m trees in this where there are currently none. Are Highways England proposing to plant trees of this size?
I commend the well produced and animated video which shows everything necessary and it's distance from places of note nearby. Kudos to the producer. Still going to be a bloody mess, over run and over budget.
How are you going to compensate all of those people who come under blight, or those who fall just outside the blight zone? They didn’t want to lose their homes, some have no choice in the matter. Compensate them with a decent amount of money and those who fall just outside the blight area should most definitely be compensated. Imagine if it was any of you about to lose your home? You portray this wonderful looking road, with minimal traffic and yet, you know it is going to be snarled up with traffic and become yet another Dartford crossing, with the same volume of traffic. It will not solve the local traffic problems, any local will tell you that! As for that rest area at East Tilbury, you only have to poke your nose into Thurrock services to realise what a dump that place is.
85%+ of UK residents will never see this nor use it but they'll still use our taxes to build it while we get palmed off with second hand trains and single carriageway roads that should have been dualled decades ago.
Amazing how London gets yet another major road scheme and yet the A1 North of Cramlington is single carriageway, and the Woodhead Pass between the M1 and Manchester is still sub par and incredibly congested. Our motorway upgrades are "dumbsmart". I suspect with the ultimate aim of thinning our numbers - I'd hate to break down on one. We absolutely need a regional assembly as we are getting shafted.
Its fiairly likely someones food coming from the south coast ports will use it but thats beside the point, many things funded by government wont be used by the entire population but they get funded becuase thats the entire point of taxation. I will likely never use one of the extra 700 daily trains through Manchesters rail network enabled by the Northern Hub project but doesnt mean it shouldnt have been done.
I agree that a lot of tax money goes to projects in and around London compared to the rest of the country, but the argument that 85% won't use it so it shouldn't be built is a bad argument. If they were to build a motorway that you use, then you'd be happy for it even though 85% of the people paying for it wouldn't use that either. That's the whole point of taxation.
Yeah, still waiting for the Western Orbital to be built in the Midlands, or the M53 to be extended any futher south than Chester ... if the provinces saw equal investment then those two things would have been built, and ultimately linked up as an additional route besides the M6. But, nope, what we get are sticking-plaster ATM hard-shoulder-running schemes up and down the existing motorway, even though half the problem (as seen at J19 just for one) is that the junctions and local road systems are overloaded and what's actually needed is a whole extra trunk route to distribute the traffic over a wider area. IE, essentially what the LTC does, but somewhere that isn't London and so won't see anything of the sort built more or less at a stroke.
So i guess you are convinced with a video showing almost empty roads and lovely graphic's.. then you must believe in ghosts and fairy's as well then .... and it'll cost nearly double what they say... always does....
I have no expertise in the matter at all. I do know, though, that we don't do infrastructure as we should. Too many excuses as to why things shouldn't be done and not enough fact as to why they need to be done. Neglecting infrastructure is far more of a threat to our economy going forward than any negotiations with the EU over CU and SM membership. You wouldn't know it though.
Despite the many very real environmental impact and shortcoming concerns, my main complaint is how unrealistic the pylons look, all wires earthed because of a lack of insulators...what an oversight hahaha
WHY does it need 'hard shoulders' when the rest of England is having 'Smart Motorways'? What's so unsafe about Smart Motorways that the SE can't have them?
NO! I just want to know if the proposals for a new motorway in the south east include hard shoulders. HE have decided it is 'safe' to remove them from motorways in the rest of the country, in spite police etc., objecting and the chaos it causes when someone breaks down (lay-byes every mile don't work!).
Erm, most of the motorways in and around London have been "smart" motorways for a while now. I think all of Londons radial routes and the M25 have at least large sections run as smart motorways.
I don't see any hard shoulders there, but there are occasional lay-bys. It's either an on-the-cheap (given the minimal width of tarmac) Smart Motorway from the off, or just an all-purpose dual carriageway that will presumably have "secret motorway" / special road provisions applied banning non-motorway traffic from the most crucial section... i.e. the part that goes under the Thames.
The pollution in the Tilbury area is one of the worst in the UK... This is going to not only cut up the area, but it will also add more pollution to Grays and the surrounding areas also! Will the people living here get free gas masks?
And when it is jammed with traffic, will we have "An Even Lower Thames Crossing?" By the way, it is going to be called the "King Charles Crossing" so that some more toerags can get their knighthoods.
This will be so useful after Brexit as an extension lorry park for Operation Stack, as trucks wait a week or so for customs clearance. Brilliant idea, as long as they put bathrooms along it every 100 metres - oops, sorry, I forgot, we're going back in time - every 500 chains.
Another swathe of countryside to be tarmaced over. Another carpark for the SE. Remember when you widened the M25 the first time to improve flow? How did that go? Remember when you widened it again, how did that go? Remember when you widened it yet again? Only a fool keeps making the same mistake and expecting a different outcome. Still, I guess you're not paid to think.
The video look lovely, doesn't show the disruption, the destruction and land it will take making it .. it doesn't show the pollution either that this area will suffer from... What did highways say, nothing of beauty in Essex to warrant it going in a tunnel!!! That's what they really think of this area. Whatever you think it will not stop congestion in this area, if any major route has an accident inevitably people will use Ockendon, North Ockendon, and the surrounding areas to get to their destinations so why on earth would another motorway that possibly could have another accident cause less congestion in this area? Jesus you people need to wake up and smell the coffee.
@@karlosbricks2413 what do you exactly want me to elaborate on... I'm just a person living here, putting up with the ever increasing houses the lack of infrastructure ...
You're bothered about what it'll do to the scenery, but do so in order to bemoan the road being hidden in sympathetically landscaped tunnels where it has to cross other routes or faces extremes of elevation?! Vs the old school way of flying over on ugly concrete viaducts, or just blasting through hills in deep cuttings? I really don't get it. Also, of course making travel easier leads to greater traffic. People want to make those journeys regardless of how difficult it is, but the way you ease traffic when making it harder is by denying them the opportunity to do so, essentially. There's a certain maximum capacity, shared between all transport modes, and people are reasonably aware of it. Perhaps you could see the increased numbers travelling by road as a benefit to the rail traveller, in that the carriages will be slightly less overcrowded?
I can already tell this is going to be a failure. Who exactly is going to use it? The A2 is already congested between the M25 and the A2 and drivers on the M25 won't want to go ~20miles out of their way. Traffic from the coast either has to go up the M2 (2 lanes each way J4-7) or A229 Bluebell Hill (2 lanes each way). This will NOT fix traffic at Dartford, a new bridge or deep bored tunnels (Option A14) will, at a fraction of the cost, and will probably be built anyway in 15 years when this doesn't work. The only reason the Dartford crossing is so congested is because Highways England keep stopping the traffic - traffic flows much better on the bridge, which only proves this. This will be expensive, destructive, disruptive, useless and £7billion which could easily be invested at the existing crossing with plenty left over to subsidise or improve sustainable public transport. The consultation is a total joke, as is the junction design which will see slip roads removed on the A2 junction and an inconvenient link road put in place. Building more roads attracts more cars - this will not solve congestion - just create more of it.
Cool story bro, but one thing this would do is separate the traffic heading between the channel ports and anywhere north of the Thames, from that having to cross the river from the east side of London (or anywhere to the north/east of there) but going anywhere else in the south. The M2 may well still jam up, but its traffic load in both directions will be taken off the existing crossing, which can then flow more freely for everyone else. That's not to say the M2 itself isn't in need of radical improvement, but that's not an argument against cutting off the corner - and for anyone who wants to go that way, *saving* a similar "~20 miles". It's as out of the way to go through Dartford when there's an alternative that cuts off the corner, as it would be to take the new route when you're not actually going to the southeast. Cuts both ways, you know. Of course it'll also more than likely do bugger all for congestion north of where it joins the M25 and possibly make it even worse. I'd say the new road probably could have done with running somewhat further north before cutting across to the west, maybe making an interchange at where the M11 connects, to better catch traffic from the A14 (and ultimately even the A1) without it ever actually touching the M25 proper.
More countryside and wildlife destroyed for greed. How long will it be before this mess is gridlocked and in a state of disrepair, I wonder. Sort the roads out that we already have.
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Get this thing built ASAP. I’ve spent countless hours in traffic at Dartford crossing over the last 20 years! Why do infrastructure projects take so long to do in the Uk??
One word: Bureaucracy
I like these fly throughs, nice graphics and no lorries in the second or third lane, shame reality is not the same on the roads!
What’s your problem with lorries ?
This will be perfect for an alternative route for the queues at the Dartford Crossing 😀
Brilliant idea it will massively reduce tourist and holiday traffic to and from ferries and tunnel at Dartford crossing...get it done
Spend some money up north!
How about actually building the M67 to connect Manchester and Sheffield which should have been done decades ago.
Oh, just soooo many reasons.....
The destruction of a national park for one, and the extreme cost and difficulties of construction across the woohead pass for another. If anything is built it is far more likely to be higher speed rail routes between Manchester and Sheffield.
Matt H we’ll get that built then. They need to do something. The north is crying out for some sort of serious investment. This country extends a lot further then Watford you know.
Burns Night I’m very aware, and it’s currently in the planning stages, as is the 2nd phase of HS2, the trans Pennines route upgrade and the rollout of about 1000 new trains across the northern cities.
Ryan Fitzpatrick You can’t run a 4 lane road through rail tunnels 😂. The larger one isn’t even tall enough for trucks 2 to pass through and would require substantial ventilation alterations to be safe for a single lane of cars. The two single tunnels could maybe fit one lane of traffic if you don’t mind breaking down and not being able to get out your car.....
While yes, you’re correct about it’s journey through Manchester it would be a very difficult build and extremely costly. Coupled with road projects through urban centres being pretty much political suicide and it’s not going to happen.
Best thing for connectivity would be reopening the Woodhead route to rail and even that’s a stretch.
you actually make a decent point
Under-built before it is off the drawing board. Why only 3 lanes? The M25 needed 3-4 lanes, this new road should be built with 5 lanes in each direction - why only half do the job and then spend the next twenty years upgrading it because it is inadequate just like the northern half of the M25 was with two lane stretches.
This road needs to alleviate traffic from the already overcrowded M25 not join it so why not take it further North and join the M11 at Harlow
Love the fly through video but it doesn't look like there are any hard shoulders? it this a Smart Motorway or just a 3 lane dual carriageway?
There is a blue road sign at 3:21 as well as hard shoulder, so it should be a motorway?
@@swinger9374 Yes but curiously its the only one? and at 5.19 there is what looks like laybys or emergency stopping areas, which you wouldn't need if the road had hard shoulders.
PMSL! By the time it's finished the section of the M25 it's joining will be as congested as the western section. A127, A12 area is already getting bad now. How about extending the M11 to Blackwall. Redeveloping Blackwall tunnel and extend the M2 the other side! Simples
Dave Charles that is certainly a very good idea, but there’s a slight problem. If these roads were built they couldn’t be motorway as it would be owned by TFL and they cannot run motorways in London, hence why the M41, A40(M) and A102(M) all disappeared in 2000
Matthew Howe the motorway could easily be handed back to Highways England. The M4 works in Brentford well within the TFL zone and the LEZ, and so it would make a lot of sense to extend the M11 along an upgraded A12 carriageway, down to the Blackwall Tunnel which is widened or supplemented with additional tunnels, and then the motorway flows out to the old A102M and down an upgraded A2 corridor to the M2. The A14 from Cambridge to Huntingdon as well as the M11 will have a free flow route to the M2 and can be put into one number, with a continuous link from Huntingdon and the A1 to Kent bypassing the M25 with various urban interchanges for the Olympic Park, Greenwich etc. it would be highly helpful for alleviating traffic alongside LTC and would take a lot of pressure off of the M25. The entire road can operate with hard shoulder running and stopped vehicle detection, alongside variable speed limits and upgraded MS4 variable message signs.
Via Hackney Wick, Lea Bridge, Stratford and Temple Mills
Great stuff. By Christmas would be good.
About time!
This country badly needs this kind of infrastructure and we should not allow these projects to be held hostage by 'environmentalists'.
All very well scooping up tonnes of countryside and pouring in even more tonnes of concrete but when the M25 gets blocked it always means the A130 through Chelmsford is the only escape route north and that doesnt do heavy traffic as it flows through several housing estates. Maybe route planners should cut of their own arms and see where the satnav takes them??
Great video and looking forward to it built. Will greatly help the congestion for those of us who live in the area. Why only 3 lanes though and not 4 like the M25 and existing Dartford Crossing?
An eight lane road would be harder to integrate into the A2 and M25 termini without capacity-reducing lane drops.
I think it is very short sighted to make it 3+3 with no hard shoulder. I know they mentioned smart motorway technology; but it you are blasting a very expensive road through a very expensive part of the country, you might as well make it worth the while with some contingency.
@@hufforguk I agree. Otherwise in 10-15 years time they'll just need to spend a load of money again to widen it. Similarly to when they widened the M25 from 3 lanes to 4, they should have had a bit more foresight and gone for 5!
The Lower Thames Crossing is not doing the same job as the M25, they are not comparable. The LTC is conceived as a relief road for the Dartford Crossing, it is not designed to replace it.
By their own statistics the amount of traffic on a D2 road would not exceed the design capacity until 2040, so a D3 road is easily sufficient for the length of time we continue to use motor vehicles.
Also, a D3 tunnel is the best as any wider would be very expensive and challenging and quad two-lane tunnels would probably have height restrictions like Dartford.
Looks great .... but not if its being constructed in your area
700 meters from my front door, no thanks 😢
OK, so, the signs are blue, but there's three lanes with no hard shoulder, and precious little horizontal room for future expansion in a lot of places ... so is it a motorway, or isn't it?
Can't help thinking it might have been a better idea to join it on to the existing system north of the Thames just a little further up, and that the current proposal may ease things at Dartford (and provide a handy diversion should that need to be closed) but partly only because the amount of traffic that can get through to the existing crossing will be handicapped by greater congestion around where the LTC meets the M25. Seems it would have offered more genuinely useful capacity by extending at least as far north as the A12, if not M11, instead of barely scratching its semi-segregated way to the A127. And maybe crossing over the M2 for a few miles to the south to offer a proper motorway standard link down to the M20 as well.
I mean, joining on to the M25 itself is a bit questionable, but I assume the idea is that traffic from all points north, as well as the very northern end of the capital, heading towards Dover and Folkestone (or vice versa) is meant to use the new road, whereas anyone from the rest of the city (and country) and/or is heading to/bound from other places in the south (...on a route that involves going somewhere near London) will continue using either the Dartford crossing, or the western arm of the M25 as appropriate, so it should still have some benefit in that regard, instead of trying to squeeze everything travelling on both the A2/M2/M20 as well as around the lower orbital to the A21/M23/M3 etc through the same 4-lane toll bridge/tunnel. Sort of like what the M20 did for the M26, but more effective.
Also, loving the American vehicle presets for the model, and how erratic some of the drivers are. It's like it's been built in Truck Simulator with the wrong data pack or something.
Where are the toll booths going? and all the traffic behind them going to be.
WONDERFUL 👍👍👍
When ???
Great concept But by the time it is agreed to go ahead, where the cost is coming from, and when it is opened the traffic would have doubled .
If this does get built I have a few suggestions, 1) Why not make it 4 or 5 lanes plus a hard shoulder rather than a "smart" because in 10 years it'll have to be widened, 2) why not have it split on the Northern end where one side goes on the proposed route to the M25 and the other side extends out to the A12 or even the M11, it would be a massive corner cut for those in Essex and would relieve more roads such as A12, A127 etc and 3) why not have it extend south to the M20 because it would be a massive convenience for people going from the North to the Channel tunnel and Dover and again would cut a corner on peoples journeys.
If they make it wider will cut across my front door, bad enough as it is if you live here, no thanks😢
It would personally help because sometimes my dad takes me to his house but Dartford Crossing is busy so it would help a lot.
I see no sign of this road crossing being developed. Has it been cancelled
Great Video.
This will be a new smart motorway running from the M25 at North Ockendon near J29 to the A2(M2 motorway) between Gravesend and Rochester Kent.
? 14.5 miles of new LTC smart motorway should be called the M22 Motorway.
I am surprised at the A2 4 lanes dual carriageway with hard shoulders between London Borough of Bexley and Rochester Kent never been reclassify as a full M2 Motorway as part of the extension to the M25 Motorway and London Borough of Bexley ?.
@@jamesparsons8593 Watling Street, which is where the 4 lane bit of the A2 runs along between Ebbsfleet and Strood has historically always been a thoroughfare for anyone, but now it is more for allowing tractors and other traffic from the local area to use it without interrupting motorway traffic (M25 to M2 and vice versa). This would mean that for the M2 to be extended to the M25 or even into London, technically you would need to build a new road running alongside to allow for local traffic and other vehicles which are generally banned from using motorways and roads declared as Special Roads, similar to how a single carriageway runs alongside the A1(M) in Northern England so that local traffic doesn’t have to interrupt with motorway traffic. Hope this helps explain why this bit of the A2 isn’t motorway!
I laughed at A0 (M)
A0 let’s go (M)
My home overlooks the North Kent marshes that will be devastated by this work. Funny how the leaflet I have just received through the door refers to 'consultation' and 'before we apply for the planning consent' when everyone knows it is a done deal, and every day I see the local fields already being churned up by surveyors, access tracks, site huts etc. Also rather curious how the A13 was widened a few years ago with a certain roundabout having an exit that goes nowhere - but will join up with this 'proposed' project. The Gillingham junction at A2/M2 already skirts this area taking traffic to the Medway Tunnel - how come an option to extend this existing infrastructure and tunnel across at this point wasn't considered? But then I also wonder why I bother even responding to the questionnaires I receive - recent local road 'improvements' in Gravesend and Strood have only worsened traffic; they managed to have all this going at the same time as gas and Virgin works, crippling local roads. Co-ordination skills already shown to be lacking, doubt if this project will be any better. And oh, yes, agree with other comments that the scheme is rather contradictory to the Government's alleged focus on improving public transport, get people off the roads, reduce pollution etc etc
They couldn't care less about the environment or the people that live in this area.
5:28 Notice how much land has been allocated for widening.
What's the mitigation for all this extra pollution?
It's going look so much better with all those housing estates built right up to it.
What are those insignificant ribbon hedges over the bridges supposed to achieve? A bit of decoration perhaps?
Joe90V you might as well do 3 or 4 lanes plus hard shoulder then turn it into a “smart” motorway when they realize they screwed up.
Pieknie super uwielbiam uk
can u build it right now
The obvious plan would have been to run north of the Thames to link up with the A130, then build an outer M25 between Chelmsford and the M1, instead of feeding them back on to the already overloaded M25. Still, let's spend all that money on a 3rd railway line between Birmingham and London instead.
I would also assume the plan factors in the 30 mile queue to get an onward visa at Dover.
The M1 doesnt even go to Birmingham and unless youre planning on building another 8-10 lane motorway instead then HS2 is the better way to go for north - south connectivity.
That was the original idea back in the 1950's and 60's. There would have been several ring roads around London connecting all the arcing motorways.
Will this be updated showing 6 lanes of gridlocked traffic plus the surrounding roads also all jammed? Oh and the poor air quality? Bye bye more countryside. Thought we were trying to get more cars off the road than on it!
If you build it , they will fill it!! Just more space for parking cones and cars.
A13? Direction to London?!!!
Will fuel tankers be 'escorted' through the new tunnel like to existing one? Video shows tankers free flowing in new tunnel. AS
looks like they have the road on the south side set up for restriction and prohibited diversion lanes but not on the north side.
I doubt that they will. The tunnel is 3 lanes wide, meaning the height restrictions that impede tankers do not apply.
I mean the A14 upgrade does it's job and the roads are clear maybe the same thing will happen here
I’m afraid those people at HE and the Government have little knowledge of our local roads. When there are problems on the M25, it filters through to local roads and paralyses our local network. How come we have to suffer another major road? Surely this road would have been better to go further up, towards Canvey perhaps? Even out the score a bit, we have Dartford crossing that is enough to contend with!
Also, HE if you are going to link Essex and Kent together again, why do you not have a railway doing so? Everything these days HAS to go by road, it’s ridiculous. Pollution does not appear to come into the equation at all. I cannot believe in this day and age we have no railway linking Essex to Kent. The ridiculous thing is you have to travel into London, in order to link up to Kent!
Infrastructure in this country is pretty shite!
It would seem really that if they're going to go to the trouble of building all those tunnels and bridges, they could probably include an additional portal & decking, or widen out the proposed ones a bit, and fit a new rail connection through there. Just have an extra set of points on HS1 and open up the cross channel services to Essex and East Anglia... It's generally not that much more expensive to add extra capacity or modalities in that way when doing the original build, certain vs tacking them on or making a whole new parallel line later.
The interchange at Stratford / hs1 / Cross rail to abbey wood / ebbsfleet / the overground at thamesmead links Essex and Kent by rail
@@alexprice104 Technically
Great, this would really make my journey to work easier, shame that by the time it's completed I shall be retired 😁
Forgot to show the tolls! To encourage us to use this new tunnel, they will impose a toll at the Blackwall tunnel. This means if you leave to the east or south east of London, you will have to pay to cross the Thames whilst those in central or west London can still cross for free. Still, on the bright side, by the time they’ve got their act together it’ll be another 10 or 15 years before anything happens anyway.
People from all over London use the Blackwall tunnel and there is no intention as far as Im aware of putting tolls on it....
@@iman2341 local councillors have informed me they will be putting a toll on it.
What will the number of this road be, and will it encompass special road status throughout with junction numbers?
I think it's going to be motorway, so yes, a special road. Not sure what the number will be (it probably hasn't been decided yet), but I'd support M15. No silly Ax(M) though as there's no corresponding A-road for the route.
I can imagine HE pitifully numbering the new Road A2820 or A282(M); but let's hope that's not the case. Indeed A1... would be consistent with the numbering system
If its a motorway it would be M2X (X being a number that's yet to be decided) or A2X. This is because the area here is Zone 2 and would, therefore, be start with 2. But I think it is a motorway, be very surprised if it isn't
@@jorgedasilva2054 but zone 1 is the most anticlockwise zone it enters so it should start with a 1.
Nice to see no tolls, or have these deliberately been left out of this promotional video?
Surely they'd be like the DartCharge so only gantries are needed (with ANPR cameras on them)
Yes they want to charge you for using it - its all covered here: highwaysengland.citizenspace.com/ltc/consultation/consultation/
Charging for road use is fine BUT abolish road tax then!!!!
hahahahahhahaa there's actually a place called Thong
it's about two miles from my house
there's one up north called Upper Thong too. I've been upper thong.
@@MianCowell about 30 miles down the road we've also got a place called ham sandwich
Painful underwear
Phonetically it's tong!
Should atleast be solar panels and more trees should be down the road side
For me the answer is the railway next to the A2. Whilst I agree the Dartford crossing needs to be addressed, it's just another project by developers that lacks foresight. I already live in the south east/eastern England and believe me developers just build for a quick buck. The money invested would be better to improve existing congested motorways and crossing, maybe the A2 should be made into a motorway, M11 Essex should be 3/lanes north of Stansted.. getting freight onto the railways would be better, then again the lack of foresight from this government and many previous to that has hampered that
@@jamesparsons8593 the A2 between the M25 and M2 didn't become a motorway because people argued that there would be no alternative for non-motorway traffic to take despite the A206 running parallel to the current A2
Should be interesting what a fucking mess they’ll make of this one! Also what’s the fee going to be for crossing?
Yes they are proposing a toll too, this is why everyone should go to one of the public information events, ask the questions, and make these points!
WOW.... Look at those almost empty roads...... This video is so Real.....
Hahaha!
In the corona pandemic it really is!!!
The amount of trees that have been added are very deceiving, it'll take decades before it looks like that. In fact, you show hundreds of 20-30m trees in this where there are currently none. Are Highways England proposing to plant trees of this size?
Where’s all the traffic!
I commend the well produced and animated video which shows everything necessary and it's distance from places of note nearby. Kudos to the producer.
Still going to be a bloody mess, over run and over budget.
How are you going to compensate all of those people who come under blight, or those who fall just outside the blight zone? They didn’t want to lose their homes, some have no choice in the matter. Compensate them with a decent amount of money and those who fall just outside the blight area should most definitely be compensated. Imagine if it was any of you about to lose your home?
You portray this wonderful looking road, with minimal traffic and yet, you know it is going to be snarled up with traffic and become yet another Dartford crossing, with the same volume of traffic. It will not solve the local traffic problems, any local will tell you that! As for that rest area at East Tilbury, you only have to poke your nose into Thurrock services to realise what a dump that place is.
Well said it will severely impact my home 😢
The route North of the river is a mess.
it's probs gonna be changed a bit more when they actually come to building it tho...
oh yeah this tunnel is 14 miles long
It’s going to cause more accidents on thong lane near thameview school
37 million pound and two years to resurface two miles of the A12.... This is pie in the sky isn't it... 🙄
meanwhile in northern England
85%+ of UK residents will never see this nor use it but they'll still use our taxes to build it while we get palmed off with second hand trains and single carriageway roads that should have been dualled decades ago.
Amazing how London gets yet another major road scheme and yet the A1 North of Cramlington is single carriageway, and the Woodhead Pass between the M1 and Manchester is still sub par and incredibly congested. Our motorway upgrades are "dumbsmart". I suspect with the ultimate aim of thinning our numbers - I'd hate to break down on one. We absolutely need a regional assembly as we are getting shafted.
Ooh some insider information 17 year old soon to drive
Its fiairly likely someones food coming from the south coast ports will use it but thats beside the point, many things funded by government wont be used by the entire population but they get funded becuase thats the entire point of taxation. I will likely never use one of the extra 700 daily trains through Manchesters rail network enabled by the Northern Hub project but doesnt mean it shouldnt have been done.
I agree that a lot of tax money goes to projects in and around London compared to the rest of the country, but the argument that 85% won't use it so it shouldn't be built is a bad argument. If they were to build a motorway that you use, then you'd be happy for it even though 85% of the people paying for it wouldn't use that either. That's the whole point of taxation.
Yeah, still waiting for the Western Orbital to be built in the Midlands, or the M53 to be extended any futher south than Chester ... if the provinces saw equal investment then those two things would have been built, and ultimately linked up as an additional route besides the M6. But, nope, what we get are sticking-plaster ATM hard-shoulder-running schemes up and down the existing motorway, even though half the problem (as seen at J19 just for one) is that the junctions and local road systems are overloaded and what's actually needed is a whole extra trunk route to distribute the traffic over a wider area. IE, essentially what the LTC does, but somewhere that isn't London and so won't see anything of the sort built more or less at a stroke.
Looks great. Now let's get on with it.
So i guess you are convinced with a video showing almost empty roads and lovely graphic's.. then you must believe in ghosts and fairy's as well then .... and it'll cost nearly double what they say... always does....
I have no expertise in the matter at all. I do know, though, that we don't do infrastructure as we should. Too many excuses as to why things shouldn't be done and not enough fact as to why they need to be done. Neglecting infrastructure is far more of a threat to our economy going forward than any negotiations with the EU over CU and SM membership. You wouldn't know it though.
Despite the many very real environmental impact and shortcoming concerns, my main complaint is how unrealistic the pylons look, all wires earthed because of a lack of insulators...what an oversight hahaha
After 20 years of talk not a spade has been put into the ground.But there are some very wealthy lawyers.
WHY does it need 'hard shoulders' when the rest of England is having 'Smart Motorways'? What's so unsafe about Smart Motorways that the SE can't have them?
Are you really complaining about hard shoulders on motorways!?!
NO! I just want to know if the proposals for a new motorway in the south east include hard shoulders. HE have decided it is 'safe' to remove them from motorways in the rest of the country, in spite police etc., objecting and the chaos it causes when someone breaks down (lay-byes every mile don't work!).
Must protect the precious South East.
Erm, most of the motorways in and around London have been "smart" motorways for a while now. I think all of Londons radial routes and the M25 have at least large sections run as smart motorways.
I don't see any hard shoulders there, but there are occasional lay-bys. It's either an on-the-cheap (given the minimal width of tarmac) Smart Motorway from the off, or just an all-purpose dual carriageway that will presumably have "secret motorway" / special road provisions applied banning non-motorway traffic from the most crucial section... i.e. the part that goes under the Thames.
The pollution in the Tilbury area is one of the worst in the UK... This is going to not only cut up the area, but it will also add more pollution to Grays and the surrounding areas also! Will the people living here get free gas masks?
Jeez chill. This will be a project well worth doing honestly
And when it is jammed with traffic, will we have "An Even Lower Thames Crossing?" By the way, it is going to be called the "King Charles Crossing" so that some more toerags can get their knighthoods.
Terrible lane discipline by those drivers.
This will be so useful after Brexit as an extension lorry park for Operation Stack, as trucks wait a week or so for customs clearance. Brilliant idea, as long as they put bathrooms along it every 100 metres - oops, sorry, I forgot, we're going back in time - every 500 chains.
No, we're moving forward to the great world outside of the EU, you are welcome to live in the past on the continent.
Another swathe of countryside to be tarmaced over. Another carpark for the SE.
Remember when you widened the M25 the first time to improve flow? How did that go?
Remember when you widened it again, how did that go?
Remember when you widened it yet again?
Only a fool keeps making the same mistake and expecting a different outcome.
Still, I guess you're not paid to think.
Once again the money is spent on the south!
Money is spent all over the country, whats your point?
nottmtrucker You are welcome to a road like this up North.
The video look lovely, doesn't show the disruption, the destruction and land it will take making it .. it doesn't show the pollution either that this area will suffer from... What did highways say, nothing of beauty in Essex to warrant it going in a tunnel!!! That's what they really think of this area. Whatever you think it will not stop congestion in this area, if any major route has an accident inevitably people will use Ockendon, North Ockendon, and the surrounding areas to get to their destinations so why on earth would another motorway that possibly could have another accident cause less congestion in this area? Jesus you people need to wake up and smell the coffee.
blaming additional capacity for congestion directly doesn't seem to stack up for me, please elaborate
@@karlosbricks2413 what do you exactly want me to elaborate on... I'm just a person living here, putting up with the ever increasing houses the lack of infrastructure ...
KarlosBricks - building more roads attracts more cars - see this for more info-th-cam.com/video/N4PW66_g6XA/w-d-xo.html
You're bothered about what it'll do to the scenery, but do so in order to bemoan the road being hidden in sympathetically landscaped tunnels where it has to cross other routes or faces extremes of elevation?! Vs the old school way of flying over on ugly concrete viaducts, or just blasting through hills in deep cuttings? I really don't get it.
Also, of course making travel easier leads to greater traffic. People want to make those journeys regardless of how difficult it is, but the way you ease traffic when making it harder is by denying them the opportunity to do so, essentially. There's a certain maximum capacity, shared between all transport modes, and people are reasonably aware of it. Perhaps you could see the increased numbers travelling by road as a benefit to the rail traveller, in that the carriages will be slightly less overcrowded?
'Beautiful Essex'....**laughs**
I can already tell this is going to be a failure. Who exactly is going to use it? The A2 is already congested between the M25 and the A2 and drivers on the M25 won't want to go ~20miles out of their way. Traffic from the coast either has to go up the M2 (2 lanes each way J4-7) or A229 Bluebell Hill (2 lanes each way). This will NOT fix traffic at Dartford, a new bridge or deep bored tunnels (Option A14) will, at a fraction of the cost, and will probably be built anyway in 15 years when this doesn't work. The only reason the Dartford crossing is so congested is because Highways England keep stopping the traffic - traffic flows much better on the bridge, which only proves this. This will be expensive, destructive, disruptive, useless and £7billion which could easily be invested at the existing crossing with plenty left over to subsidise or improve sustainable public transport. The consultation is a total joke, as is the junction design which will see slip roads removed on the A2 junction and an inconvenient link road put in place. Building more roads attracts more cars - this will not solve congestion - just create more of it.
Cool story bro, but one thing this would do is separate the traffic heading between the channel ports and anywhere north of the Thames, from that having to cross the river from the east side of London (or anywhere to the north/east of there) but going anywhere else in the south. The M2 may well still jam up, but its traffic load in both directions will be taken off the existing crossing, which can then flow more freely for everyone else.
That's not to say the M2 itself isn't in need of radical improvement, but that's not an argument against cutting off the corner - and for anyone who wants to go that way, *saving* a similar "~20 miles". It's as out of the way to go through Dartford when there's an alternative that cuts off the corner, as it would be to take the new route when you're not actually going to the southeast. Cuts both ways, you know.
Of course it'll also more than likely do bugger all for congestion north of where it joins the M25 and possibly make it even worse. I'd say the new road probably could have done with running somewhat further north before cutting across to the west, maybe making an interchange at where the M11 connects, to better catch traffic from the A14 (and ultimately even the A1) without it ever actually touching the M25 proper.
This will help. People will use it.
Absolutely disgusting idea HE have no ideas how this will wreak the local towns and villages all they care about is money fucking disgusting
Most annoying music theme ever...
mute it then
ok
More countryside and wildlife destroyed for greed. How long will it be before this mess is gridlocked and in a state of disrepair, I wonder. Sort the roads out that we already have.
Seriously? This is a great idea & is a great start