This type of fluency, analytical rigor, and integrity expressed by Leah and Cody is incredible. Unfortunately, this quality of expression goes far above the heads of the LDS authorities.
Omgosh, Cody and Leah articulated this so perfectly. I'm in awe and so grateful for their courage. My LDS family is afraid of me since I left the church and became born again. I try to honor their beliefs.
Random question. Is “born again” not a concept in Mormonism? As I have come to understand things, there are lots of places where Mormon beliefs intersect with mainstream Christianity, but there are plenty of differences too. But I had thought this concept was consistent across the Christian spectrum.
What Leah said...at about 18:45, "Now in my life I feel the Spirit more. Just as much if not more." This really speaks to me. Since I have left the Morman organization, I feel a deeper and closer relationship with my heavenly parents, one that is more real and more personal than ever before.
Wow! I am so impressed with Leah's presentation of the Young's core values and of the foundation of a Mormon's testimony when she/he/they is born in the church. Way to go!!!! ❤️❤️❤️
This gave me chills so many times. Thank you for being a voice and advocate for so many of us who are struggling and in pain as we try to find our footing, community, and healing after leaving the church.
I’m not a Mormon, but I spent most of my life in the Christian church. In this video, Leah gives a master class on how to take a stand while keeping a spirit of love and compassion. Confronting “problem” passages of scripture is not easy and challenges personal faith. The courage Leah exhibits to search out the truth is extraordinary and brought me to tears throughout this video. The lessons from Cody and Leah’s experience herein are not only for Mormons.
This is one of the BEST presentations by two very intelligent individuals and the honesty and love that is emitted is genuine. I would rather associate with them in the eternities even if it meant a loss some other way. I quit going to a Mormon church in Jan 2015 and people I thought were my “friends” have not so much as dropped a line/call/visit. I can’t believe this type of culture can be anyway close to being a “Christ-like” environment. Leah and Cody-I’m sure Heavenly Father rejoices in your genuine testament of His love. I wish you love and comfort in your decision!!
BLESS YOU, LEAH! At the 12:40 mark you mention elements of my greatest block in finding my way out. And I don't think this is talked about enough. This "feeling the spirit" part of the LDS church is such a motivator for people. The "spirit" and my feelings motivated me to change, and go on a mission after joining at age 20, and so many things. It was what kept me in when I saw things wrong in the church. I thought, "Yes, this and that stinks, but my spiritual experiences...what about those?" This is what kept me from being free earlier and again, was my biggest roadblock on the way out. Thank you for mentioning these things. It is a huge, and big hairy deal. I hope that this topic gets more time in the spotlight. Because I am not the only one who had the "Moroni's promise" happen. This needs to be talked about more. This was my biggest "burning question" in coming to terms with my faith crisis. You rock!
It's crazy to me that grown ass adults have to report their feelings, and reading material, and conversations to a glorified community leader. And members don't see anything wrong with that.
I felt exuberant listening to Leah speak her truth! She is incredibly powerful and her voice cuts to the heart of the problems we have seen for so long and haven't been able to communicate as well as she is in this. That powerful Feminine connection to the spirit is strong in her.
He's asking her what the purpose of this human existence is. He's admitting the Church has no place for certain people. He was not prepared for their level of Peace within themselves and with their knowledge. EVERYTHING I have held within myself is finally being said to the people I wanted to say it to but never could. Thank you so much For this space. It is so Healing. 15+ years and I am still healing and never knew how much I needed to hear this.
I was raised LDS and am gay. The church was most definitively NOT a safe place for me. I was so messed up by my experience with it. At the time, back in the early 90s, the church was specifically pushing us into these 'reparative therapy' programs that quite clearly told us that we were broken; that we needed fixing; and that we were damaged human beings. I ingested a lot of awful stuff about myself as a result of my experience growing up Mormon.
Oh my gracious, I am SO freakin’ sorry that you had to go through this. What a horrific experience. I hope that you have moved on from it and lived a life of freedom, loving yourself and your experience as a gay man!
What I find interesting is that the stake president repeatedly accuses Leah of “preaching” against the church - but not Cody. I think men in the LDS church find it very offensive for women to have traits such as Leah’s: intelligent, outspoken, and unafraid to utilize logic to support her arguments. It was easier for him to accuse her of apostasy than to accept that a (formerly LDS) woman could have and support viewpoints different from his own. Leah, you’re a threat, girl! 👏😂
"Sounds like you don't have a safe space in your family." As if that doesn't come DIRECTLY from church teachings! It's offensive that he would try to twist the situation in that way.
Leah and Cody are so well spoken. Well read, the Gospel Topics essays & footnotes were a tipping point for me. Leaders of the church don't want to hear the truth. Faith crisis is the most difficult thing I went through. I'm a former Mormon.
SO MANY OF US are going through this!! Wanting to stay because it’s all you’ve know and you WANT IT TO BE TRUE!!! When you’re not allowed to ask questions about the history... WHERE do you go? WHAT do you do?
This church really messed me up as a child I’ve never been able to get over how I was treated! This church and most churches no matter the religion are all false. Changing churches is not the answer. Being a good person is what matters.
😲…wow. Leah, I am so moved by the way that you share your convictions. Your integrity was hard won and it really shows. Thank you for sharing. I will carry this memory of hearing a woman speak her mind with complete honesty for a long time.
so so amazing story, Leah is to the point and doesn't get pushed around and keeps her trend of thought. this is so powerful. i feel so sorry for the stake president. he is baffled and he knows what they are saying is true and he knows the discovering of Leah and Cody about the church are true but he has his hands tied and can only see one side. so sad. In my life now I have to look at the word "love" it is so over used or a hip cliche word. oh I love you, we love you, I will ask people/GF now to please explain to me why you love me. like I like your hair, you sense of humor, your thoughts, the way we laugh, your little toe on an on and on. . in stead of one word love. how many words can you say about some one you love or just blanket it with the go to word Love
I do enjoy listening to deconstruction stories...and hope that it leads to others being ungodded...and unburdened from indoctrination....break free and FLY...
These leaders really do come across like the “thought police.” And from what I have gleaned from a few of these types of recordings, the common theme is “you can doubt, but only if you keep it quiet and project an image of belief to others.”
Leah, having been through this same court procedure, I can tell you that your strong and wise voice, your story of your search, your admission that you shared this so called "poison" information with Cody...well you must have looked like Eve to them. A nosy, voiciferous woman who led the man away! Believe me, you couldn't win! Remember, you were never considered for the priesthood. That's mens" work. Your job is to cook, clean, have babies and shut up! They did call us handmaids, right? You are better off now and if you still believe there is even a god out there, thank her that you're free!
Very well said!!! I think everyone needs to hear this. We need to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. We need to be honest, true, Chaste, benevolent, virtuous and do good for EVERYONE! I am so thrilled by this. Finally people can love unconditionally. The members are going to find out. This is going to be a wild next few years! Shout out to all the exmormons who were brave to speak out and labeled apostates. You are the true disciples!
( Basically all religions are cultic in how children are brought up to believe.) Eventually each and every one of us must honor only the teachings that l leave us free to pursue the truth.... it is essential that we form within ourselves our own religion, by which we live.
I am about half way through your hearing. It is heartbreaking that you are going through the pain and sense of separation from those whom you love who still are in the LDS. Can you however, find another faith group with which you can comfortably mesh? Is the Mormon Church not willing to let its members befriend those who are not in the LDS?
Later-day saints are allowed to be friends with non-laterday saints but joining any church other than the church of Jesus christ of later-day saints is grounds for excommunication for apostasy.
I know this is horribly abhorrent that such things even happen in the 21st century, but one might see that Leah is perhaps too honest for her own good. This feels a bit like beautiful pearls of truth & wisdom thrown before, well, swine. That stake president guy is probably honest and is biting his tongue as he listens to it (and hates not being able to say 'I completely get you there!!!'), but he has his functions, his reasons to hold on to the way how he has to do his job. It might be quite clear from the outset that saying stuff like 'I can't sustain the Prophet and can't say that the Book of Mormon is true' and then those absolutely brilliantly formulated truth NUKES about Scientology and the Bite Model... that it leads towards excommunication. This is a bit like dealing with someone in the employ of the state - they have to follow their laws and their internal procedures. You are, in essence, not dealing with a human being but with an organ of a corporation (broadly speaking). Same here. Why waste your honesty on a 'thing' (an organ of a corporation severely limited in the 'free agency' of the 'underlying human being' by his rules) which obviously cannot do anything with it except to hurt you? I don't want to judge the people in this video, they said brilliant things and better than I ever could, but this boldness might have consequences (as it had for them, if you listen to the previous videos) and such consequences might be too painful for many people to undertake.. especially if we are not talking Mormons but, say, JWs (losing your mom and dad who will be forced to shun you). I would just want to say to those people who decide not to be so bold: "don't feel bad, you are not weak, you are not a liar or a bad person'.
The stk pres was totally off guard and unprepared for this level authenticity. In the end, he says he needs to seriously consider some things, and I hope we can all love one another, then in the name of "love," excommunicated. Is there any other church that excommunicates members for questioning, doubting, or believing something different than what "the church" teaches. If there's nothing to hide or be ashamed of, Leah and Cody should not be a threat.
The church wants those who leave to become cautionary tales or to come running back bcuz the isolation is unbearable; giving people who leave or are thinking of leaving emotional support is therefore contrary to their goals. It's kind of ridiculous that anyone would expect you to just exit quietly after giving 40 years of your life to the church; the church deserves to have a light shined on its dark doings. Good on ya, Leah & Cody
I’m sorry- this stake President isn’t even listening. He said all the things you’d expect- what was your testimony before? Doubt your doubts, hold onto what you felt before, are you equally studying the scriptures and praying... because if you aren’t.. well, Obviously you aren’t doing enough. Oh, I’m sorry, we’re you talking Leah? Smh
Ultimately the Church either crashes & burns if it's not true or it thrives with a small percentage of the human family joining/being members while mortal. Give it until you're 75 or 80 & let's see how it all pans out.
Me encantaria saber de la comunidad aquí en katy o Houston. Estoy atravesando crisis de Fe y me siento tan sola, cada vez que intento hablar con mi esposo se molesta y me prédica.. tengo un hijo en la misión y todo absolutamente todo esta en conflicto en mi. Y ni puedo hablar con nadie
waaaaaaaait a minute. I love mormon stories and have listened to tons of the podcasts. It was presented in the discussion with them that they were excommunicated because they were just asking questions. At the very beginning of this audio, they said they don't believe in the prophet. Thats a central belief in the church. Isn't that reasonable for excommunication all by itself? Their whole argument in this audio is that they are upset they don't have the personal relationships, it doesn't come across as feeling that they are losing God's church. It seems totally expected to me that they would be excommunicated. I feel like the podcast was disingenuous in this situation and it kinda makes me wonder if the other podcasts are a little misleading too?
I'm still a mormon of record. I don't think they'd let you go to the temple if you don't believe he's a prophet, but you should still be able to participate in other ways. They don't excommunicate everyone who isn't temple worthy.
I'm not surprised they were excommunicated. But I think the point people are making is that there is a double standard where not everyone gets excommunicated when they do and say the same things the Youngs did and said. Loss of testimony is not part of the church's official criteria for apostasy but it is often used to justify excommunication for it. And the entire process and concept of excommunication is horribly abusive mentally and emotionally. So yes I'm not surprised that they got excommunicated because the church has a habit of doing these excommunications. But if these people are going to be excommunicated than there are several thousand (possibly million) people who should also be excommunicated because we are in the same or similar boat as the youngs. The closest thing that the Youngs come to on the church's criteria for apostasy is "repeatedly act in clear open deliberate or public opposition to the church or its leaders", the question then becomes: when did following the church's teachings of being honest, and comforting those in need of comfort, become acting in opposition to the church? If people loose their testimony and all they are trying to do is help others who have also, to feel like they are still loved, I dont think that constitutes acting in opposition to the church especially when people are still trying to be respectful and kind to those who still have a testimony. But the church sees anyone who isnt falling in line as acting in opposition. Which is exactly why people come to the conclusion that it is a toxic and culty organization. That's the point I think the podcast is trying to make. Or at least that's what I got out of it.
These people are actively talking about how toxic the church is. The psychological term for what they are doing is called “splitting”. They present themselves one way in the public eye and another way in private. Their “testimony” was all about the lies and deceit of the church and the inauthenticity of its leaders. They spent little to no time talking about things they agree with in the church. Their whole concern was what other people would think. The idea of excommunication is based on what’s in your heart which is what the church court is trying to determine, and which is why it may seem inconsistent on a superficial look. Interestingly, the fact that the Young’s recorded and released their excommunication is evidence to me of where their hearts are, and completely justifies the excommunication. They want the letter of the law followed with disregard for the spirit of the law, while claiming that they are working for the spirit of the law.
I think both sides are being“less than truthful” I think they have indeed shared info with others who are waking up about the church history and I believe the bishop already knows about the ugly church history and is just going through the formality of faking concern about the whole thing!
I am a member of the church. And I really think you are good people. But can I please ask a question was you expecting any other outcome than excommunication? Especially after you say you don't believe the church or that president Nelson is a prophet or that the book of Mormon is true. That being the case what would you hope will happen now? Not having ago what you believe is upto you and good luck in your journey. It just sounds like you are disappointed to be excommunicated. If you leave a reply please just like my comment so I can know. You can always remove your like for the comment later.
@@scottvance74 I understand that they are good caring people. It comes across well but why would you want to be part of something that you don't believe to be true. That's what I can't get my head round. You can still socialise with those that want to. If any of my friends stop believing it wouldn't stop me socialising with them if they still wanted to. Plus church is not a social club. I go because I believe it.
+germans1 - People are not going to simply 'go away quietly' when they wake up and realize that they have been lied to and deceived their entire lives. The Youngs have a right to be angry and to speak out about the way they were treated. There are major consequences for lying and deceiving and hurting people and the MORMON church is paying the price for its own actions.
@@robpaulson7992 I am not saying they don't have a right to speak up. That's not want my question was. They seem disappointed to be excommunicated but could they really expect anything else.
@@germans1 I think in an ideal world, the general authorities who are all good people would decide to be transparent with their followers--transparent about the history, finances and more. They could apologize for the lack of transparency and fallacious policies of the past. They might be able to put more time and energy into loving Christlike policies if they weren't spending so much time getting people to ignore their inconsistencies and tainted history. I think loving Christlike policies--doing good for goodness sake--would make a nice place to belong. That attitude might even go a lot further in recruiting and retaining members than stop-the-gap, missionary pushes.
Hi. Ex mormon here. I'm not the Youngs but maybe I can shed a little light on the question. I am technically still on the church's records. Originally, I left my name on the records because I still had a "testimony".(my testimony was that the LDS church has some truth but that there is no such thing as a one true church which is what I still believe. I was just in denial of the fact that that meant I did not have a testimony of the church) Looking back, I recognize that what I really had was an attachment to the church and the identity that I grew up with and a fear of backlash from family and friends. It's really hard to let go of something that has been your entire life for so long. Now, I'm in a position where I didn't remove my records when I left the church and all the backlash from my family has calmed down. At this point, if I remove my records, it will just re-upset my family and loved ones. But I 100% do not believe in the churh, and am very open about that. If I were to be called in for disciplinary action because of my repeated opposition to the church, I would be in a position where I could either just remove my records or face excommunication. Even though I do not believe at all, I think I would rather face the possibility of excommunication and here is why: I may not believe the church is true, and I may dislike alot about it, but it is still my history and my family. It still played a significant role in the first 20 years of my life and any sane person doesn't just easily and happily discard that as though it was nothing. So for me, there is no point in resigning because I choose not to reject that part of my self, my life, and my family even though I do not think the church is what it claims to be. If the church chooses to reject me, and pretend like I'm not part of that family, then that is on them and I would probably be sad and disappointed because no one likes to be rejected especially not by people they have loved. For me, there is room in my life, my beliefs and in my heart for the church and its members even though we disagree on some pretty big things. But I recognize that there is not room for me in the church and if they excommunicate me, that's their choice.
These groups are supporting VALIDATION. I believe a group needs two sides a positive and a negative. I see a problem with the methods of just a safe place for not discussing how one gains a testimony of Jesus Christ and his Gospel no matter the consequences. The LDS Church is not able to study the scriptures for people. We must do that on our own. Where is the support of helping anyone by using Gods Bible in supporting these issues for so many who are struggling? I can see why the Church May see this as adding To the problem and not helping really fix anything. I have witnessed these groups doing nothing but complaining over every detail and action people take, what mistakes are made by people, and just leading more and more of us away from God by picking at one another within the Church. It’s sad to witness what’s happening to members of the Church of Jesus Christ. I pray for all members to put yourselves in leaders shoes and provide help to for what I’m sure they are aware is a tough problem. I can put myself in the shoes of others and try my best to understand, so maybe we all could do the same.
I just dont get this whole thing. If they dont believe in the Church why not just cleanly break away and get on with their lives instead of demanding that doctrines and beliefs be changed for them. It states in the bible that homosexuality is wrong so if you have a different view then obviously you do not have Christian beliefs and instead of trying to bend things your way join a group that believes how you believe. It reeks of narcissisism and because he is a wealthy Doctor as she states does not mean that their opinion is more important than anyone elses. The Church needs to be held accountable for its lies and poor treatment of people but as this is not likely to happen members have to decide whether they can in all integrity stay but many people will suffer severe consequences if they do leave as they may lose marriages, family, jobs and friends and standing in the community. A true church of Christ follows biblical laws and because of liberalism where anything goes Christians are not going to be well thought of and persecuted. We have to take a good look at the world and decide if liberalism is working and to my mind society is in deep decay. There are no scientific studies that a gene for homosexuality has been found and I have read that the skin of the anus is too fragile for penetration unlike the vagina. Also how is it natural to sexually penetrate an area that is meant to expel body waste? Of course I could be wrong but these people annoy me and are time wasters. Anybody with any sense knows that birds of a feather flock together and when you think differently you no longer fly with the same birds. Look around and notice that obese people hang with other obese people, druggies with druggies etc. These people need to get a grip and get over their self importance.
I appreciate your guys sharing this. however, i don't think it was fair for the two of you to put your stake president in that position. if you don't believe it you should do the right thing and resign. you said you don't want to cause pain, and that is fair. But you also put your ex stake president/bishop into a horrible position just to prove a point and i disagree with the fairness of that decision. I do agree with you and support you on everything else. cheers and thank you.
Does John Dehlin still believe in Mormonism? Seems his way of staying in is doing these podcasts. They are interesting podcasts though but it seems John has one foot in and one foot out.
This type of fluency, analytical rigor, and integrity expressed by Leah and Cody is incredible. Unfortunately, this quality of expression goes far above the heads of the LDS authorities.
Omgosh, Cody and Leah articulated this so perfectly. I'm in awe and so grateful for their courage. My LDS family is afraid of me since I left the church and became born again. I try to honor their beliefs.
Random question. Is “born again” not a concept in Mormonism? As I have come to understand things, there are lots of places where Mormon beliefs intersect with mainstream Christianity, but there are plenty of differences too. But I had thought this concept was consistent across the Christian spectrum.
What Leah said...at about 18:45, "Now in my life I feel the Spirit more. Just as much if not more." This really speaks to me. Since I have left the Morman organization, I feel a deeper and closer relationship with my heavenly parents, one that is more real and more personal than ever before.
Wow! I am so impressed with Leah's presentation of the Young's core values and of the foundation of a Mormon's testimony when she/he/they is born in the church. Way to go!!!! ❤️❤️❤️
This gave me chills so many times. Thank you for being a voice and advocate for so many of us who are struggling and in pain as we try to find our footing, community, and healing after leaving the church.
If I ever need an advocate, I would like it to be Leah. She’s amazing
Well just leave
I’m not a Mormon, but I spent most of my life in the Christian church. In this video, Leah gives a master class on how to take a stand while keeping a spirit of love and compassion. Confronting “problem” passages of scripture is not easy and challenges personal faith. The courage Leah exhibits to search out the truth is extraordinary and brought me to tears throughout this video. The lessons from Cody and Leah’s experience herein are not only for Mormons.
This is one of the BEST presentations by two very intelligent individuals and the honesty and love that is emitted is genuine. I would rather associate with them in the eternities even if it meant a loss some other way. I quit going to a Mormon church in Jan 2015 and people I thought were my “friends” have not so much as dropped a line/call/visit. I can’t believe this type of culture can be anyway close to being a “Christ-like” environment. Leah and Cody-I’m sure Heavenly Father rejoices in your genuine testament of His love. I wish you love and comfort in your decision!!
Even your excommunication interview is going to help so many people out. This happened the way it needed to and I hope you guys know that
BLESS YOU, LEAH! At the 12:40 mark you mention elements of my greatest block in finding my way out. And I don't think this is talked about enough. This "feeling the spirit" part of the LDS church is such a motivator for people. The "spirit" and my feelings motivated me to change, and go on a mission after joining at age 20, and so many things. It was what kept me in when I saw things wrong in the church. I thought, "Yes, this and that stinks, but my spiritual experiences...what about those?" This is what kept me from being free earlier and again, was my biggest roadblock on the way out. Thank you for mentioning these things. It is a huge, and big hairy deal. I hope that this topic gets more time in the spotlight. Because I am not the only one who had the "Moroni's promise" happen. This needs to be talked about more. This was my biggest "burning question" in coming to terms with my faith crisis. You rock!
It's crazy to me that grown ass adults have to report their feelings, and reading material, and conversations to a glorified community leader. And members don't see anything wrong with that.
What's crazy to me is that grown-ass adults do it.
I felt exuberant listening to Leah speak her truth! She is incredibly powerful and her voice cuts to the heart of the problems we have seen for so long and haven't been able to communicate as well as she is in this. That powerful Feminine connection to the spirit is strong in her.
He's asking her what the purpose of this human existence is. He's admitting the Church has no place for certain people. He was not prepared for their level of Peace within themselves and with their knowledge. EVERYTHING I have held within myself is finally being said to the people I wanted to say it to but never could. Thank you so much For this space. It is so Healing. 15+ years and I am still healing and never knew how much I needed to hear this.
Leah and Cody Sending y’all love from Alabama. We need more people like you guys in this world.
I was raised LDS and am gay. The church was most definitively NOT a safe place for me. I was so messed up by my experience with it. At the time, back in the early 90s, the church was specifically pushing us into these 'reparative therapy' programs that quite clearly told us that we were broken; that we needed fixing; and that we were damaged human beings. I ingested a lot of awful stuff about myself as a result of my experience growing up Mormon.
Oh my gracious, I am SO freakin’ sorry that you had to go through this. What a horrific experience. I hope that you have moved on from it and lived a life of freedom, loving yourself and your experience as a gay man!
That Cult is Toxic, I thank God I got out 40 years ago 🙏
What I find interesting is that the stake president repeatedly accuses Leah of “preaching” against the church - but not Cody. I think men in the LDS church find it very offensive for women to have traits such as Leah’s: intelligent, outspoken, and unafraid to utilize logic to support her arguments. It was easier for him to accuse her of apostasy than to accept that a (formerly LDS) woman could have and support viewpoints different from his own. Leah, you’re a threat, girl! 👏😂
Antis/Ex-Mormons are Whistleblowers. Thanks for the good fight. Keep it going !!
Leah is incredible! Wow!
"Sounds like you don't have a safe space in your family." As if that doesn't come DIRECTLY from church teachings! It's offensive that he would try to twist the situation in that way.
So impressed with Leah!
What is apparent to me is that unconditional love is a foreign concept to LDS leadership. Leah is explaining it beautifully yet it is not computing.
Well said!! It's a totally foreign concept.
Leah and Cody are so well spoken. Well read, the Gospel Topics essays & footnotes were a tipping point for me. Leaders of the church don't want to hear the truth. Faith crisis is the most difficult thing I went through. I'm a former Mormon.
Your not alone southeast Idaho wishing the best for you guys👍🏻
My truth is that I have lost my testimony. The church is NOT true. What else can we do about that? Nothing. Just move on and be a good person.
Well said
Sums it up pretty good
The LDS church is TRUE. I see their buildings as I drive down the road.
@@danite1742 🤣🤣
SO MANY OF US are going through this!! Wanting to stay because it’s all you’ve know and you WANT IT TO BE TRUE!!! When you’re not allowed to ask questions about the history... WHERE do you go? WHAT do you do?
Ya keep seeking truth and accept that what you thought was truth wasn't.
This church really messed me up as a child I’ve never been able to get over how I was treated! This church and most churches no matter the religion are all false. Changing churches is not the answer. Being a good person is what matters.
Girl same. I saw a therapist for a long time after I left. You're not alone in feeling that.
My mom use to always say feelings are not facts!
This is a very powerful couple 👏👏 they stood up for themselves and values 😭🙏👏
😲…wow.
Leah, I am so moved by the way that you share your convictions. Your integrity was hard won and it really shows.
Thank you for sharing. I will carry this memory of hearing a woman speak her mind with complete honesty for a long time.
These two have done their research extremely well. Very impressive.
Leah Young is my new Super Hero!!♥️ under Jesus Christ of course
so so amazing story, Leah is to the point and doesn't get pushed around and keeps her trend of thought. this is so powerful. i feel so sorry for the stake president. he is baffled and he knows what they are saying is true and he knows the discovering of Leah and Cody about the church are true but he has his hands tied and can only see one side. so sad. In my life now I have to look at the word "love" it is so over used or a hip cliche word. oh I love you, we love you, I will ask people/GF now to please explain to me why you love me. like I like your hair, you sense of humor, your thoughts, the way we laugh, your little toe on an on and on. . in stead of one word love. how many words can you say about some one you love or just blanket it with the go to word Love
I don't think Leah was trying to get pushed around by anyone in this interview tho. So stop that quit seeing what is not there.
I see the main message Leah and Cody are sharing is that of caring for all people not just believers.
So true about baptism at 8. They dont have a testimony. They have a belief. Or they have their families belief.
I do enjoy listening to deconstruction stories...and hope that it leads to others being ungodded...and unburdened from indoctrination....break free and FLY...
How can there be a space within the church if they don't believe in it.??
the bishop is clueless. clueless.
It takes a lot of courage to talk to your kids; I had to talk to them and it’s extremely sad.
These leaders really do come across like the “thought police.” And from what I have gleaned from a few of these types of recordings, the common theme is “you can doubt, but only if you keep it quiet and project an image of belief to others.”
Leah, having been through this same court procedure, I can tell you that your strong and wise voice, your story of your search, your admission that you shared this so called "poison" information with Cody...well you must have looked like Eve to them. A nosy, voiciferous woman who led the man away! Believe me, you couldn't win! Remember, you were never considered for the priesthood. That's mens" work. Your job is to cook, clean, have babies and shut up! They did call us handmaids, right? You are better off now and if you still believe there is even a god out there, thank her that you're free!
Very well said!!! I think everyone needs to hear this. We need to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. We need to be honest, true, Chaste, benevolent, virtuous and do good for EVERYONE! I am so thrilled by this. Finally people can love unconditionally. The members are going to find out. This is going to be a wild next few years! Shout out to all the exmormons who were brave to speak out and labeled apostates. You are the true disciples!
“We love you, we believe you want what’s best for everyone.”
“As do we but be gone...”. 🤷♂️
Love that you guys were talking.. speaking the truth.. but LET HIM TALK.😒Lets hear👂 what the church ⛪️ has to say
Anyone know the YT video Leah is talking about at 17:30?
Here we are 5 years later and we saw Nemo's. They told you what you had done wrong. For all of your that have suffered, I am sorry!!
It bothers me when they ask how do we resolve this? Seriously?!?!
( Basically all religions are cultic in how children are brought up to believe.) Eventually each and every one of us must honor only the teachings that l leave us free to pursue the truth.... it is essential that we form within ourselves our own religion, by which we live.
Every perceived threat will be exterminated, period.
It's sad that these beautiful words initially fell on the ears of a man who is essentially just another person in a bureaucratic system.
This was fascinating.
I am about half way through your hearing. It is heartbreaking that you are going through the pain and sense of separation from those whom you love who still are in the LDS. Can you however, find another faith group with which you can comfortably mesh? Is the Mormon Church not willing to let its members befriend those who are not in the LDS?
Later-day saints are allowed to be friends with non-laterday saints but joining any church other than the church of Jesus christ of later-day saints is grounds for excommunication for apostasy.
I know this is horribly abhorrent that such things even happen in the 21st century, but one might see that Leah is perhaps too honest for her own good. This feels a bit like beautiful pearls of truth & wisdom thrown before, well, swine. That stake president guy is probably honest and is biting his tongue as he listens to it (and hates not being able to say 'I completely get you there!!!'), but he has his functions, his reasons to hold on to the way how he has to do his job. It might be quite clear from the outset that saying stuff like 'I can't sustain the Prophet and can't say that the Book of Mormon is true' and then those absolutely brilliantly formulated truth NUKES about Scientology and the Bite Model... that it leads towards excommunication. This is a bit like dealing with someone in the employ of the state - they have to follow their laws and their internal procedures. You are, in essence, not dealing with a human being but with an organ of a corporation (broadly speaking). Same here. Why waste your honesty on a 'thing' (an organ of a corporation severely limited in the 'free agency' of the 'underlying human being' by his rules) which obviously cannot do anything with it except to hurt you?
I don't want to judge the people in this video, they said brilliant things and better than I ever could, but this boldness might have consequences (as it had for them, if you listen to the previous videos) and such consequences might be too painful for many people to undertake.. especially if we are not talking Mormons but, say, JWs (losing your mom and dad who will be forced to shun you). I would just want to say to those people who decide not to be so bold: "don't feel bad, you are not weak, you are not a liar or a bad person'.
The stk pres was totally off guard and unprepared for this level authenticity. In the end, he says he needs to seriously consider some things, and I hope we can all love one another, then in the name of "love," excommunicated. Is there any other church that excommunicates members for questioning, doubting, or believing something different than what "the church" teaches. If there's nothing to hide or be ashamed of, Leah and Cody should not be a threat.
You can hear the SP scrambling to force what they say through his filters.
Leah, girl you rock!!!
The church wants those who leave to become cautionary tales or to come running back bcuz the isolation is unbearable; giving people who leave or are thinking of leaving emotional support is therefore contrary to their goals. It's kind of ridiculous that anyone would expect you to just exit quietly after giving 40 years of your life to the church; the church deserves to have a light shined on its dark doings. Good on ya, Leah & Cody
This doesn't make sense....what do you expect the President to do? Basically if you don't believe it's true why would you expect to stay??
Study another religion. Religion has more to do with your family’s teaching, location, and wishful thinking.
Read and learn.
I had to laugh that the stake president said “doubt your doubts”.
Around 53 minutes, the stake president tries to say, “we (the church) doesn’t exclude gay people”
🤨
I’m sorry- this stake President isn’t even listening. He said all the things you’d expect- what was your testimony before? Doubt your doubts, hold onto what you felt before, are you equally studying the scriptures and praying... because if you aren’t.. well, Obviously you aren’t doing enough. Oh, I’m sorry, we’re you talking Leah? Smh
The SP really wants to hang the "preaching" tag on Cody and his wife. Not believing is not another religion. Very frustrating.
At this point, I would not bother having any discussions with people dedicated to misunderstanding me 🤷🏻♀️
Thank you Mormon Stories for shinning a light on the ugliness that's hidden behind the Mormon curtain. Not Saintly or so perfect are they. 😮
I'd like to see the TH-cam video they mention with people from lots of different faiths testifying that they "know". Anyone have that link?
Ultimately the Church either crashes & burns if it's not true or it thrives with a small percentage of the human family joining/being members while mortal. Give it until you're 75 or 80 & let's see how it all pans out.
I say Leah needs to speak at the next Womens conference 😁
Me encantaria saber de la comunidad aquí en katy o Houston. Estoy atravesando crisis de Fe y me siento tan sola, cada vez que intento hablar con mi esposo se molesta y me prédica.. tengo un hijo en la misión y todo absolutamente todo esta en conflicto en mi. Y ni puedo hablar con nadie
I wish she would of let him talk more but points were well done 👍
Sweden, not Switzerland 🤦🏻♀️
This stake president sounds like A.I. 🤖
Yeah he does "Practice?! Practice?! Y'all talking about practice!"
waaaaaaaait a minute. I love mormon stories and have listened to tons of the podcasts. It was presented in the discussion with them that they were excommunicated because they were just asking questions. At the very beginning of this audio, they said they don't believe in the prophet. Thats a central belief in the church. Isn't that reasonable for excommunication all by itself? Their whole argument in this audio is that they are upset they don't have the personal relationships, it doesn't come across as feeling that they are losing God's church. It seems totally expected to me that they would be excommunicated. I feel like the podcast was disingenuous in this situation and it kinda makes me wonder if the other podcasts are a little misleading too?
I'm still a mormon of record. I don't think they'd let you go to the temple if you don't believe he's a prophet, but you should still be able to participate in other ways. They don't excommunicate everyone who isn't temple worthy.
Spot on Lee P
I'm not surprised they were excommunicated. But I think the point people are making is that there is a double standard where not everyone gets excommunicated when they do and say the same things the Youngs did and said. Loss of testimony is not part of the church's official criteria for apostasy but it is often used to justify excommunication for it. And the entire process and concept of excommunication is horribly abusive mentally and emotionally.
So yes I'm not surprised that they got excommunicated because the church has a habit of doing these excommunications. But if these people are going to be excommunicated than there are several thousand (possibly million) people who should also be excommunicated because we are in the same or similar boat as the youngs.
The closest thing that the Youngs come to on the church's criteria for apostasy is "repeatedly act in clear open deliberate or public opposition to the church or its leaders", the question then becomes: when did following the church's teachings of being honest, and comforting those in need of comfort, become acting in opposition to the church? If people loose their testimony and all they are trying to do is help others who have also, to feel like they are still loved, I dont think that constitutes acting in opposition to the church especially when people are still trying to be respectful and kind to those who still have a testimony. But the church sees anyone who isnt falling in line as acting in opposition. Which is exactly why people come to the conclusion that it is a toxic and culty organization.
That's the point I think the podcast is trying to make. Or at least that's what I got out of it.
These people are actively talking about how toxic the church is. The psychological term for what they are doing is called “splitting”. They present themselves one way in the public eye and another way in private. Their “testimony” was all about the lies and deceit of the church and the inauthenticity of its leaders. They spent little to no time talking about things they agree with in the church. Their whole concern was what other people would think. The idea of excommunication is based on what’s in your heart which is what the church court is trying to determine, and which is why it may seem inconsistent on a superficial look. Interestingly, the fact that the Young’s recorded and released their excommunication is evidence to me of where their hearts are, and completely justifies the excommunication. They want the letter of the law followed with disregard for the spirit of the law, while claiming that they are working for the spirit of the law.
I think both sides are being“less than truthful” I think they have indeed shared info with others who are waking up about the church history and I believe the bishop already knows about the ugly church history and is just going through the formality of faking concern about the whole thing!
I’m so sorry, but this guy just doesn’t get it.
I am a member of the church. And I really think you are good people. But can I please ask a question was you expecting any other outcome than excommunication? Especially after you say you don't believe the church or that president Nelson is a prophet or that the book of Mormon is true. That being the case what would you hope will happen now? Not having ago what you believe is upto you and good luck in your journey. It just sounds like you are disappointed to be excommunicated. If you leave a reply please just like my comment so I can know. You can always remove your like for the comment later.
@@scottvance74 I understand that they are good caring people. It comes across well but why would you want to be part of something that you don't believe to be true. That's what I can't get my head round. You can still socialise with those that want to. If any of my friends stop believing it wouldn't stop me socialising with them if they still wanted to. Plus church is not a social club. I go because I believe it.
+germans1 - People are not going to simply 'go away quietly' when they wake up and realize that they have been lied to and deceived their entire lives. The Youngs have a right to be angry and to speak out about the way they were treated. There are major consequences for lying and deceiving and hurting people and the MORMON church is paying the price for its own actions.
@@robpaulson7992 I am not saying they don't have a right to speak up. That's not want my question was. They seem disappointed to be excommunicated but could they really expect anything else.
@@germans1 I think in an ideal world, the general authorities who are all good people would decide to be transparent with their followers--transparent about the history, finances and more. They could apologize for the lack of transparency and fallacious policies of the past. They might be able to put more time and energy into loving Christlike policies if they weren't spending so much time getting people to ignore their inconsistencies and tainted history. I think loving Christlike policies--doing good for goodness sake--would make a nice place to belong. That attitude might even go a lot further in recruiting and retaining members than stop-the-gap, missionary pushes.
Hi. Ex mormon here. I'm not the Youngs but maybe I can shed a little light on the question.
I am technically still on the church's records. Originally, I left my name on the records because I still had a "testimony".(my testimony was that the LDS church has some truth but that there is no such thing as a one true church which is what I still believe. I was just in denial of the fact that that meant I did not have a testimony of the church) Looking back, I recognize that what I really had was an attachment to the church and the identity that I grew up with and a fear of backlash from family and friends. It's really hard to let go of something that has been your entire life for so long.
Now, I'm in a position where I didn't remove my records when I left the church and all the backlash from my family has calmed down. At this point, if I remove my records, it will just re-upset my family and loved ones. But I 100% do not believe in the churh, and am very open about that.
If I were to be called in for disciplinary action because of my repeated opposition to the church, I would be in a position where I could either just remove my records or face excommunication.
Even though I do not believe at all, I think I would rather face the possibility of excommunication and here is why: I may not believe the church is true, and I may dislike alot about it, but it is still my history and my family. It still played a significant role in the first 20 years of my life and any sane person doesn't just easily and happily discard that as though it was nothing. So for me, there is no point in resigning because I choose not to reject that part of my self, my life, and my family even though I do not think the church is what it claims to be. If the church chooses to reject me, and pretend like I'm not part of that family, then that is on them and I would probably be sad and disappointed because no one likes to be rejected especially not by people they have loved.
For me, there is room in my life, my beliefs and in my heart for the church and its members even though we disagree on some pretty big things. But I recognize that there is not room for me in the church and if they excommunicate me, that's their choice.
💣💥❤
These groups are supporting VALIDATION. I believe a group needs two sides a positive and a negative. I see a problem with the methods of just a safe place for not discussing how one gains a testimony of Jesus Christ and his Gospel no matter the consequences. The LDS Church is not able to study the scriptures for people. We must do that on our own. Where is the support of helping anyone by using Gods Bible in supporting these issues for so many who are struggling? I can see why the Church May see this as adding To the problem and not helping really fix anything. I have witnessed these groups doing nothing but complaining over every detail and action people take, what mistakes are made by people, and just leading more and more of us away from God by picking at one another within the Church. It’s sad to witness what’s happening to members of the Church of Jesus Christ. I pray for all members to put yourselves in leaders shoes and provide help to for what I’m sure they are aware is a tough problem. I can put myself in the shoes of others and try my best to understand, so maybe we all could do the same.
Seriously, you believe everything you learned as a kid? You haven't changed anything you know based on new evidence? Wow, now that's nuts.
Deep indoctrination is a thing
I just dont get this whole thing. If they dont believe in the Church why not just cleanly break away and get on with their lives instead of demanding that doctrines and beliefs be changed for them. It states in the bible that homosexuality is wrong so if you have a different view then obviously you do not have Christian beliefs and instead of trying to bend things your way join a group that believes how you believe. It reeks of narcissisism and because he is a wealthy Doctor as she states does not mean that their opinion is more important than anyone elses. The Church needs to be held accountable for its lies and poor treatment of people but as this is not likely to happen members have to decide whether they can in all integrity stay but many people will suffer severe consequences if they do leave as they may lose marriages, family, jobs and friends and standing in the community. A true church of Christ follows biblical laws and because of liberalism where anything goes Christians are not going to be well thought of and persecuted. We have to take a good look at the world and decide if liberalism is working and to my mind society is in deep decay. There are no scientific studies that a gene for homosexuality has been found and I have read that the skin of the anus is too fragile for penetration unlike the vagina. Also how is it natural to sexually penetrate an area that is meant to expel body waste? Of course I could be wrong but these people annoy me and are time wasters. Anybody with any sense knows that birds of a feather flock together and when you think differently you no longer fly with the same birds. Look around and notice that obese people hang with other obese people, druggies with druggies etc. These people need to get a grip and get over their self importance.
Did you listen to the first part?
Running from house to house is a bit too much come on now 😬 🙄
I appreciate your guys sharing this. however, i don't think it was fair for the two of you to put your stake president in that position. if you don't believe it you should do the right thing and resign. you said you don't want to cause pain, and that is fair. But you also put your ex stake president/bishop into a horrible position just to prove a point and i disagree with the fairness of that decision. I do agree with you and support you on everything else. cheers and thank you.
Does John Dehlin still believe in Mormonism? Seems his way of staying in is doing these podcasts. They are interesting podcasts though but it seems John has one foot in and one foot out.
Nope he was forced out. However you can take a person out of the church but you can't take the Mormon out of the person.