I was raised southern baptist. My father was a preacher. It's so true. Idk all of the history either but they prefer to keep people uneducated. It's disgusting & I left the church as a young adult. The hypocrisy enrages me.
Bravo! I mean that in the best way, because it took strength, integrity, honesty, and believing deeply in your sense of self. Your story provides hope that others will take that inner journey.
I’m with you. My dad was a Methodist minister, born and raised in southern MO. I finally left the traditional Methodist/Presby church(es) when I turned 40. (I also moved to the Pacific Northwest.) I was looking for something that wasn’t so legalistic and ‘formal.’ I spent almost ten years in the Charismatic Movement, until finally leaving the Church for good. The hypocrisy, bigotry, bias, and obvious double standards were rife in most of my church history. No more. Not ever again. I used to feel guilty about it because I love and respect my dad. But I can’t support anything that supports social injustice, prejudice, and the ever-present “we’ve always done it this way” attitude.
They literally worship money. If a priest in europe would have the lifestyle of an u.s. televangelist there would be massive outcry. Not that there are no opportunistic con priests in europe who filled their pockets with money, but at least they have to hide it.
@family lowe I’m also a Christian and I sort of disagree. There’s a large part of Christians that hate gays thinks everyone’s going to hell and and what not. I’d say even it’s the majority. There’s a lot of hypocrisy in this religion.
You can blame the preists and the preachers for that. It's their job to convey God's message but they don't. Instead they use his name to preach their own fears and greed and selfishness and the corrupt masses eat it up like it's Manna from heaven
@family lowe i know what christians believe because they have a strangehold on my country's culture, politics and laws. I also read the bible, i read biblical scholarship and i have read christian books. I do this because of how dominant christianity is. Evil is BS. That's what it is. There are people who do things most people would consider bad and so we have to deal with that, but there isn't some metaphysical force or evil. There is no good reason to be a christian in 2020. Have you actually read the bible? Most christians i talk to have not (just snippets cherry picked or edited by clergy). If you have and you're still a christian, it's always sad to see. To be fair, we all that said, there are so many sects of christianity, it's hard to say x, y or z sect represents them all. I'm just referring to the obvious dominant christian ideas in western culture (e.g. sexual "purity", anti sex for pleasure, the afterlife is more important than this life, there is a soul and it's more important than your body, there is an afterlife, there is a heaven and hell, jesus was supposedly a great guy who existed, there is a struggle between good and evil, end times are eventually coming, people shouldn't get high, homosexuality is bad, etc, etc, etc).
@family lowe I have read the bible. Like a novel from cover to cover. Didn't find it to be all that compelling. Especially the old testament part. Jesus had some nice things to say but Christianity really seems to want to ignore the best bits and that's because most "Christians" don't read the bible. They just go to church for the social aspect and soothing their guilt over being a conservative right-wing asshole.
@@garrycole9187 What took us so long eh brother? That hell concept was a fuck of an "invention" by the church, it has kept mankind under it's thumb for 2000 years now. I'd doubt that any of the Romans would have believed there would still be 2 billion followers in the year 2020, they'd probably laugh their asses off!!
For young people it would be a kind of social suicide at the moment... Better to dedicate oneself to money, consuming, lifestyle, culty stuff...not as dangerous. What about tolerance, religious freedom, equal rights, reason? The 60ies and 70ies were so much easier for children/young people...less cynical, less bitter.
@Ester Tana If you are young then I advise you to not go anywhere near a priest. Also read your bible. Nothing will turn you into an atheist faster than reading than that horrible fairy tale.
@@Barklord Similar story here. Not minding the need to social distance this holiday season one bit. I have seen a lot of scary stuff surface in certain people's character (or rather, what is lacking in their character) under the pressures we are all experiencing this year.
@@dendrien I have found them to be more humble and true. I'm a white woman who's seen too many white christians being hypocritical about humanity, which drove me away from religion and disgusted me.
@@Barklord Ditto! That's what I was taught in sunday school as well. Unfortunately, my family does as well. Have "divorced" my family for their idiocy and don't regret it at all.
They don't offer a services or product (technically) so I don't see any reason they should be taxed. That's asking for the parishioner to have their money taxed twice - their normal wages and what they give to the church.
Well according to that logic... that's a Contradiction if "America Christianity" are reading from the same Bible who believe in the same faith, and to top it off... Christianity is Christianity no matter what country the religion itself is practiced by the faith. So there's no such thing as American Christianity.
The most segregated day of the week is Sunday, I grew up as a black southern Baptist and my light skinned creole family was the closest thing to white we ever saw
African Americans did not "PUSH" those people out of those areas... their hatred of my people based on color, drove them out of town. Words matter & the way those words are framed matter!
Yes golden rule is very important principle and centre piece of an ethical and moral life. It appears to have been first expressed by Confucius around 500BCE. It has since been embraced by Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, Stoicism, and "the rest of the world's major religions (to paraphrase Wikipedia) "143 leaders of the world's major faiths endorsed the Golden Rule as part of the 1993 Declaration Toward a Global Ethic"
I was raised Baptist. My grandpa was a very revered pastor and I'm one of the only black sheep.. They do not think they are racist! I found out a lot about my grandparents after they passed away. I love them, but I could never follow in their footsteps.
It takes practice and mindfulness to do better in our lives than our parents did. They taught us some good qualities, but bad behavior becomes your default personality when that’s how your family role models raised you.
@@r2rock1 LOL you're kidding right? Have you ever actually read the Bible? What's a fair price to ask for my daughter to be sold off as a sex slave? Give you a clue, the Bible gives a number.. It gives you permission to beat your slaves to within an inch of their life and as long as they don't die for a day or so you're not responsible because they are your property. The lengths you people will go to in order to explain away the Bible's clear support for slavery is absolutely insane.
@fotopoulos WS blanchette Black sheep has nothing at all to do with black people FFS... Black sheep are a real thing. You have a whole field of white sheep and some of them will rarely give birth to a sheep with black wool. Black wool was not desirable because you couldn't dye it like you could with white wool. The term just means an odd ball that doesn't fit with the rest of the flock and has absolutely nothing to do with racism..
@@Thezuule1 It appears you have a very limited understanding of not only the Bible, but of the nature of American slavery since you base your argument on 2 scriptures taken out of context. You would benefit greatly from reading my book.
Jesus was a Jew and looked like an average guy from the eastern Mediterranean. There was nothing special about his appearance at all. As the prophet Isaiah foresaw over 600 years before Jesus was born: "He [the Messiah] had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him" (Isaiah 53: 2b). In other words, Jesus looked like any other Jew from the Levant.
Patavinity Well, you may safely say that if (!) a person called (something like) Jesus at that time in that place existed whose dealings are indeed somehow causally linked to the later narratives about it we know, he would most probably have been of darker skin tone than usually presented in popular imagery today. 🤷🏻♂️ Unless there was another miracle. 😁
@@christiangeiselmann His depiction has varied greatly in different times in different places. Europeans depicted him as European; Ethiopians as Ethiopian; Japanese as Japanese. What he actually looked like is really irrelevant because people want Jesus to be a reflexion of themselves - it's a major aspect of his appeal. Why complain about that and not about all the other nonsense in the Bible which is clearly far more absurd? Regardless, if he did exist then his precise complexion is unknowable. Jewish people today vary greatly in their skin colour and there are no living witnesses from 2000 years ago. We can be fairly certain he wasn't pale and blond, or black. Where he was situated between those two extremes is an insoluble mystery.
@@patavinity1262 "Jewish people today vary greatly in their skin colour" - and that's to be expected, considering the diaspora of the Jewish people. No assumptions about the appearance of Jesus can be made based on the appearance of modern Jews. Odds are, if he ever existed, Jesus would have resembled a modern-day person whose ancestors remained in the Levant, e.g. Syrian, Iraqi. We can say for absolutely sure that he would not have resembled the blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-guy image that white Christians prefer to imagine :)
Such a terrific interview! I'm 70, grew up in the segregated South. My family was really "unchurched", we only went to Methodist services on Easter. We moved to Idaho, my sister became "born again", she eventually found the equivalent of a Southern Baptist church there. She bullied our dad into making a public statement at that church that he had found the lord, she terrified him with fire and brimstone when he was in his 80's. She would refer to other denominations as not "real Christians", make fun of those who happened to be of faiths outside of the Abrahamic religions. It cannot be stated enough that part of the appeal tRump has with evangelicals is his bullying, mocking of others. That's how they rationalize his abhorrent behavior, he has been "saved", just like them. And, yes, on the outside it may not look like white supremacism, but indeed it is! Robert P. Jones, please keep up your good work here.
I'm atheist, but I have visited the place where we are told Christ was born, and, well, not that it matters, but he wouldn't have had white skin, would he?
Your right , he would have been stoned along with his mother , from having relationship with Celt etc. Jesus had to be very dark. Blond hair and white skin came from artesian painters in the middle ages .
@@Swnsasy You're no doubt referring to this passage in Revelations: "The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters." This actually says his hair was white. It isn't clear whether it was curly. And it doesn't say his skin was bronze. Bronze in a furnace glows orange. Moreover, this is a description from a "vision" of the risen Jesus according to John. It doesn't necessarily describe his earthly appearance. I'm not saying he was a white guy. He probably wasn't, if he actually existed at all. But it doesn't helping anything if you misrepresent what it says in the book.
I'm currently reading an allied book by Katherine Stewart called "The Power Worshippers". It is about the entanglement of the 'christian right' and the republican party. A good but scary read.
The funny part is my closest friends that will vote for Biden, are the only people I know that regularly go to church. But yes, keep building this simplistic ideological box for anyone that doesn’t agree with you.
@@ricardocabeza6006 does Donald Trump go to church at all and is he really a conservative Christian republican, or just an opportunist in it for himself.
@@rodneysettle8106 The Christian right doesn't support Trump because he's a Christian. They know he isn't. They support him because they supports their cause. Trump is a means to an end. _Jeff Sessions suggests that the president’s own religious convictions are irrelevant, compares him to the dictators Abdel Fattah el-Sisi and Bashar al-Assad, and makes the case for choosing a strongman who can defend Christians over democratic politics._ _This isn’t reading between the lines; Sessions makes his views quite clear. When Plott asked Sessions, who is now running an underdog campaign to return to his old U.S. Senate seat in Alabama, how Christians could support Trump, he replied with a reference to Egypt and el-Sisi._ _“It’s not a democracy-he’s a strongman, tough man, but he promised to protect them. And they believed him, because they didn’t want the Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt. Because they knew they’d be vulnerable. They chose to support somebody that would protect them. And that’s basically what the Christians in the United States did. They felt they were under attack, and the strong guy promised to defend them. And he has.”_
Matthew Julius. Now that was an enlightened response. I would urge you to refrain from getting too involved in some of the swirling debates going on around this thread. There is alot of confusion out there.
Jesus Christ , wouldn't have even hung out with those types of people and he definitely would have had anything to do with these wealthy,and greedy evangelicals.
This is one of the most pertinent important topics to cover, and David you tackle it both poetically & beautifully. I really appreciate you're working what you do, please continue to help people understand the real value of things and that which lay hidden just out of sight
The Nationalist Roots of White Evangelical Politics | Dissent Magazin - www.dissentmagazine.org/article/the-nationalist-roots-of-white-evangelical-politics How Evangelicals became Republicans - th-cam.com/video/zpLCIc5PvQw/w-d-xo.html Jerry Falwell Jr. Joins the Ranks of Evangelical Hypocrites - nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/08/jerry-falwell-jr-joins-the-ranks-of-evangelical-hypocrites.html The Hypocrisy of Christian Evangelicals | by Patrick Cage - medium.com/@pcage8/the-hypocrisy-of-christian-evangelicals-9f99de340068 Christian Pastor DEMOLISHES Evangelicals' Support for Trump - th-cam.com/video/4bwc_4RPiwU/w-d-xo.html Martyn Whittock: Why Evangelical Christians Support Donald Trump & Israel - th-cam.com/video/Nv6JfhRtMrM/w-d-xo.html Is Trump’s evangelical support a contradiction? - www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/7/9/21291493/donald-trump-evangelical-christians-kristin-kobes-du-mez
God bless you, Dave Packman for being bold enough and concerned enough to openly address racism in Christianity. So many white evangelicals choose to to ignore it's roots in the "church". It goes way back and your guest did the subject much justice. I appreciate the bravery he has displayed in doing so...and yours!
That separates you from "Christianity'. The Most High separated me from Christianity. He is separating a lot of people from Christianity. But He has shown me the true way. Yet, I see atheists as purer and more honest in general than Christians in general. What is disappointing you is Euro-Christianity, formulated with an agenda. Jesus is real and an atheist can find the real Jesus. He was Shemitic and not a Euro. He is real today and leads people in righteousness. Do you ever hear Evangelicals use the word, righteousness?
I was raised Southern Baptist too. My Sunday School teachers were whit supremacists and KKK members. I grew to hate this religion. As a teenager, my Sunday School classmates and I would go out to eat. On the way, they would drive through black neighborhoods, honking and yelling, "We're gonna black top these roads!" I sat in the back seat and cried. These people make me sick.
I guess the Baptist Church near me that’s a predominantly black congregation are actually white supremacist. I had no clue! But then again, the Proud Boys are white supremacist even with their non-white leader. Anything is possible with leftist logic!
Ricardo Cabeza ever wonder why it’s predominantly black? There’s two Baptist churches across the street from each other in my town. One predominantly black one predominantly white.
@@chasd9504... the second nearest one is also predominantly black... and by predominantly I mean white people also go there. I don’t live in this segregated fantasy you have. But thank you for projecting your own racism in the process.
My family went to church each Sunday, until the minister came to our house and told me father "You make X amount of money so you give us Y amount of money". That was the last time my family went to church except for Weddings and funerals, because we had to for family. I won't say one religion is better or one religion is the worst. Everyone has the personal right to decide on what they believe. I will tell you my opinion based on my family opinion. Don't talk about religion, sex or politics. It only ends in fights. welcome to 2020.
Don’t talk about religion and politics has been around for who knows how long. Hell, I went to Europe in 2013 and had to watch some informational videos about basically not offending people and it said that. Lol and I know that’s been a saying for far longer.
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle I guess it's because we, european actually try to be inclusive and get along with each other. It doesn't mean it always works but we try. Also Europe experienced a lot of crisises.
@@NicolasMendoula that’s kind of a rule of thumb in the US. But we also have Trump 2020 flags flying from the back of pickup trucks (ironic considering trump doesn’t seem to care much about the middle or lower class) so yeah... It’s interesting we don’t hear more about politics from Europe unless they affect the US here. Which I guess is fair enough. But we don’t even hear about Canadian politics or Mexican politics and they’re neighbors. I would like us to be more civil as neighbors here. But what can ya do?
As far as I can tell, christian ethics aren't racist, they're about turning the other cheek, golden rule, hate the sin and not the sinner, stuff like that. So if there are racist christians out there, they aren't living up to christian values.
To paraphrase Bill Maher. If the American Christian right had seen Jesus on the cross, they would have said, "The Romans are pussies. Jesus still has his eyes."
If you can scientifically measure (as this author did) that the more Christian you are, the more racist you are then I don't think so. The proof is in the pudding. Many Christians are cherry pickers and they don't pick the best cherries because something in the system itself pushes them not to repeatedly.
@@talyahr3302 _If you can scientifically measure (as this author did) that the more Christian you are, the more racist you are then I don't think so._ That you think is irrelevant. _The proof is in the pudding._ The scientists provided you with proof. But you don't believe in evidence that contradict your beliefs. Talk about cherry picking. Segregation was the biggest issue for the American Christian right until the 1970s, when it was replaced by abortion. The RNC tactic to tap into the racism is known as the Southern Strategy.
@@talyahr3302 I can respond to the "If you can scientifically measure" part. I've glanced at the survey his stats are based off of, and it doesn't seem to directly* measure racism. Here's one of the questions he mentioned using (in another interview): Q. 22 Do you think recent killings of African American men by police are isolated incidents or are they part of a broader pattern of how police treat African Americans? Can we really tell whether someone holds disdain towards non-whites or thinks of them as lesser than, based on if they answer one way or the other on that? I really don't think so. It doesn't seem like an important distinction. He says that when you compare white Christians to white non-Christians, they are about twice more likely to think of them as isolated incidents. *edit: Actually, I forgot. In his other interview, he said that these same people report holding warm feelings or something like that towards blacks, as in, the data suggests that they aren't racist, they just are less likely to see things through the lens of being due to systemic racism.
I am an autistic man on disability and I was told by somebody at my church when I was struggling that God's not going to bless me because I live on other people's money because I'm on disability and I should get a job definitely superiority and I would even say a little bit of neo-nazism horrible and I was very hurt by that
@@davidferrier5355 Ham caused Noah to curse Ham's son Canaan. Ham was not under the curse. Also Ham's other sons Mizraim and Cush were not under the curse; only Canaan was under the curse. But black Africans are biblically considered the offspring of Cush, not Ham. In both the Old and New Testaments, black Africans are "Cushites." Northern Africans are considered the offspring of Mizraim (principally, the Egyptians). The so-called "Curse of Ham" fell upon the Canaanites, who throughout scripture are depicted as despicable. Not so with Cushites, the biblical examples of whom are usually depicted favorably. So the use of the so-called "Curse of Ham" as a rationale for slavery of black Africans is simply wrong on its face. The Bible never says such a thing, as even the most elementary reading easily shows.
They don't like hearing the truth but we know it's true because we see it everyday . God is revealing everyone and everything thing at this very moment.
Just because someone says they are a christian does mean that they are one. The bible says you will know by the fruits of the spirit whether or not they are a true christian or a fake one.
Possibly Dan. I've learnt 3 things which seem helpful. 1) Actions have consequences 2)To try and end a sentence or statement with " What do you think " ? 3)To live my life observing the following quote ( Dalai Lama ) "If you can't be of benefit to beings - at least don't harm them " 4) I'm going to die one day Sorry Dan never was any good at maths !
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology." Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States.
@@revwroth3698 That's only part of the quote, and misconstrues its meaning: "this was the real ground of all the attacks on you: those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, endeavored to crush your well earnt, & well deserved fame." - Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, Washington, March 21, 18011
@@Echo81Rumple83 He was a Christian deist, meaning he believed God created the world and then buggered off. It also entails believing divine revelation isn't real, because that would require divine intervention from God, who deists believe is absent. Hence all knowledge of God is derived from extrapolating from observations of the natural world, which is essentially the argument from design. Jefferson also wrote the Jefferson Bible, in which Christ's life and teachings are taught, but with everything supernatural, such as the resurrection, removed. As far as Jefferson was concerned, Christ was great for his moral insight, but was in no way a divine being; which, along with Jefferson's rejection of the trinity, is in keeping with Christian deism.
I'm not young anymore and I've became agnostic for some time now. Every religion is unfortunately xenophobic somehow. I do not need this hateful feeling in my heart. Furthermore, I'm still overwhelmed at the Love sower character Jesus was. I have no intention (no time either) for hate or prejudice speeches. In my Christian past I used to see how many people go to church and hold Bibles without a real sense of Humanity out of the temple
It's crazy how much I so truly enjoy your videos David. Please, continue your hard work, and know that people like me appreciate you, and we respect your dedication to the truth, your honesty and your conviction in your beliefs.
So glad I realized I was an atheist-while-black a decade ago. I no longer have these internal struggles. It's great David is covering this book and topic because as with many things in American history involving non- white ppl and their treatment, many Americans do not know. But on a personal level, it's all just...exhausting.
@@christopherrichards2350 trust me I understand. As a young black man, I had to go through my own journey. I'm a Christian bcuz I want to be and don't judge others or their beliefs. It's sad bcuz they don't even follow the principles they supposed too. They'd call Jesus himself a socialist and immigrant and shun him. They're not about love and understanding so I understand no hate from me
When I talk about the difference between faith, which is personal, and religion, which is communal, the discussion pretty much always boils down to ‘Look at all the good things religion has brought us! Focus on that’. My answer is always ‘Show me one good thing that could not be done by good people without religion?’. Haven’t heard one yet.
The major hypocricy I noted with the abrahamic faith is this. When shook off the yoke of spprsion, the came the oppressors. When the early christian, shook off their yoke of oppresison, they became the oppressors.When Muslims shook off the yoke of oppression, they became the oppressors. When protestants where able to shake off the yoke of oppression, they became the oppressors.
This does not surprise me. I am a born again atheist raised as Catholic (of sorts). I have noticed that most religious people thrive on the concept of exclusivity and the ‘in’ and ‘out’ thinking in their world view is a breeding ground for any type of discrimination be it fear of gays, people of color or people who are of a different social/economic bracket. This is one reason why I became atheist after spending literally decades trying to understand what the hell was going on. I feel a massive sense of release in not belonging to any ‘group’ although I do recognise that many people who do belong to a ‘group’ find great comfort and security in it. Shame that it has to cause harm to those outside of it.
“It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority, that can convict you of thought crime, while you are asleep... a celestial North Korea.” - Christopher Hitchens on religion
Exactly, along with the Cain analogy they forgot to mention the Curse of Ham: The curse of Ham (actually placed upon Ham's son Canaan) occurs in the Book of Genesis, imposed by the patriarch Noah. It occurs in the context of Noah's drunkenness and is provoked by a shameful act perpetrated by Noah's son Ham, who "saw the nakedness of his father". The exact nature of Ham's transgression and the reason Noah cursed Canaan when Ham had sinned have been debated for over 2,000 years. The story's original purpose may have been to justify the subjection of the Canaanite people to the Israelites, but in later centuries, the narrative was interpreted by some Christians, Muslims and Jews as an explanation for black skin, as well as a justification for slavery. Similarly, the Latter Day Saint movement used the curse of Ham to prevent the ordination of black men to its priesthood.
Depends on the denomination. The "mark of Cain=dark skin" doctrine is usually the foundation. Then they also have to add explanations to get the "cursed lineage" through the flood, for example, that one of Noah's sons married a black woman.
Thats a Great point for the man made stories, he looked at his father's nakedness and a curse was placed upon him and all of his descendants, but that still is a story of justification in mistreating someone base on a tale. but a great point of correction for the subject being discussed. Peace.
All religions should be put behind an 18+ law. Only when you're an adult and understand what religions are then you can make your choice of which one to choose.
I was raised Southern Baptist. I consider myself a survivor. I greatly appreciated this interview. I have spent much of my youth and adulthood trying to wrap my head around how a church body can be completely racist for many years....
This is 1 of the best videos about American Christians. Was raised catholic, faced the hate from my evangelical southern Christian cousins. Now I can’t stand the thought of being associated with any branch of Christianity in this nation. Thankfully I’ve been freed of the chains for over a decade and have a happier outlook on life itself. Their Being constantly brainwashed with racist/bigoted views from birth, and Catholics had this big chance to spring clean the pedophiles out of the church, yet chose not to. I’d hate to have that on my head.
I am not a defender of Catholicism, in fact I am an atheist . However, I went to Catholic schools in the 40's, 50's and 60's in Queens,NY. There was no evidence of discrimination that I could discern, even in hindsight. There were black children in all my classes, every one of them. They were not treated differently than the white children. Just thought you outta know.
Anytime in church history that people did unspeakable things in the name of religion, that was evidence of wickedness in conflict with the Bible's actual message.
Fun fact, the violent expansion of the Islamic empire during the Umayyad Caliphate, into Europe, wasn’t even viewed as a sin. Only killing true followers of Muhammad is viewed as a sin. Which means we should probably attack the morality of Christianity...
So how do you explain the bible's messages about how to treat your slaves? Or the treatment of women as sexual slaves? Or how to punish a rape victim? or murdering children (well to be fair just the little boys, you can spare the virgin girls). Or the human sacrifice?
@@alansimmons9621... that’s Old Testament, David’s people would be better served answering that. The basis of Christianity is the New Testament. I’m glad you’re well educated on various religion basics.
@@ricardocabeza6006 Your bible (if you are a Christian) includes both old and new in fact Jesus said that he has come to fulfill the laws and prophets (Matthew 5:17). Also Paul told the runaway slave to love and obey his master. Surely a benovent God would have just said "Don't own people. It's shitty and very wrongeth"
If it exists in the Catholic Church in the US, it’s an American problem, not a Catholic problem. Catholics had a bad patch in the 1400s-1600s (the dark ages) but outside of that, slavery has been condemned. Some church leaders, very early on, were freed slaves
Reverend Kenneth Copeland flew into the Executive Airport, in one his Gulfstream jets. Joel Osteen drove his Maserati to pick him up at the terminal. "Our country is experiencing God's 10th Plague of Egypt", lamented Joel... "Our flocks are in dire need of spiritual guidance. What should we do.?" Rev. Copland replied..... "Let us Prey."
Shut up ! No "we" aren't in the same boat. See any other people crying out and mourning and protesting for their sons and daughters being shot down and degraded daily around the earth? Just be quiet
It’s not only the hypocrisy that’s driving people away from Christianity and religion in general. It’s the lack of any evidence that there’s a shred of truth.
I am a pastor and I completely agree with this guy. Also as an Asian American, so much of white America is ingrained in the Christian teaching as THE Christianity. I also diagree with those that are using this to say all of religion is bad. Religion has also influenced many good people in times when the larger culture was backwards and when it was dangerous to believe otherwise. People like Wilberforce were influenced by religion to go against slavery not to mention people like MLK Jr. Religion has been used for evil, there is no excuse for that. Religion has also inspired many to risk their lives for their fellow man.
Can't understand the christian thinking...a religion not having white european origins nor having nor a savior who is european...hating jews but Jesus is a jew ....what am I missing?
@S E he's still a jew can't change that and just because a group of jews did something 2000 years ago it doesn't mean you punish jews that had nothing to do with it second it's obviously a religion founded by non whites and jesus wasnt white can't change that either....like I said it's an inconsistent thought process and I don't get it. Like the whole God sent himself to sacrafice himself to save us all from ..........himself.....
I was raised in a Canadian Pentecostal church..left it before I was twenty... I know whereof you speak! My elders are now in their eighties and 'trust Pence' because he prays so nicely and Trump because he stands behind Israel, for the fundamentalist Christian votes. There is no changing their minds and they will continue to vote Conservative in Canada, heaven help us! That's Republican to you, though not quite so extreme. I follow you quite closely and agree with you closely... keep up the great work!
Rihanna and Rocky will have additional children. In their music video together in the wedding scene, they were surrounded by both girls and boys. Rihanna said she wanted 3-4 kids, and Rocky said he always wanted a daughter to spoil like a princess. Based on those statements, yes, they will have more children in the future!
I grew up in a very Christian conservative family. They all love Trump and have always been somewhat racist and judgmental, but because of Trump, their racist and bigoted beliefs are to a whole new level and they're now emboldened to say or post racist ideas openly. I don't feel like I can be around my family anymore.
@@chosen2bhis657I was told from an early age that there was a God, then when i grew up i realised that people tell lies , then i thought if god is so clever to to create a universe, then why did he leave it upto men whom he knows tell lies , to pass on his story , why should I believe what you or any other person tells me, it dosen't make any sense , and if god exists he should know that. I've been told by many people that gods exist in many different cultures , so obviously they can't all be correct , so somebody is lying, why should I believe any of them .
Absolutely immaculate topic AND title, Mister Pakman. Discussions on topics like these are very important and even a necessity. Especially in America, especially today, and especially in such a tumultuous time. Subscribed, belled, liked, I've done all the interactions. Good shit, David. As a left leaning centrist you may be hesitant to address topics these weighty and seen as "radical" but i say that history will absolve us and i urge you to research more. Although these videos dont get the interactions, i argue that this should not waver your contributions to important topics such as these. Some say that sets the bar too low but you and I both know the bar for Americans is in hell. Nonetheless, strive to better yourself xx
I was raised southern baptist. My father was a preacher. It's so true. Idk all of the history either but they prefer to keep people uneducated. It's disgusting & I left the church as a young adult. The hypocrisy enrages me.
It's great to see you were able to see the wrong and maintain your dignity.
Bravo! I mean that in the best way, because it took strength, integrity, honesty, and believing deeply in your sense of self. Your story provides hope that others will take that inner journey.
Same... They sicken me
Early childhood indoctrination is a powerful tool. Congrats on retaining your critical thinking skills.
I’m with you. My dad was a Methodist minister, born and raised in southern MO. I finally left the traditional Methodist/Presby church(es) when I turned 40. (I also moved to the Pacific Northwest.) I was looking for something that wasn’t so legalistic and ‘formal.’ I spent almost ten years in the Charismatic Movement, until finally leaving the Church for good. The hypocrisy, bigotry, bias, and obvious double standards were rife in most of my church history. No more. Not ever again. I used to feel guilty about it because I love and respect my dad. But I can’t support anything that supports social injustice, prejudice, and the ever-present “we’ve always done it this way” attitude.
They call themselves Christians whilst totally rejecting Jesus’ message of tolerance and acceptance of other people.
They literally worship money. If a priest in europe would have the lifestyle of an u.s. televangelist there would be massive outcry. Not that there are no opportunistic con priests in europe who filled their pockets with money, but at least they have to hide it.
@family lowe I’m also a Christian and I sort of disagree. There’s a large part of Christians that hate gays thinks everyone’s going to hell and and what not. I’d say even it’s the majority. There’s a lot of hypocrisy in this religion.
You can blame the preists and the preachers for that. It's their job to convey God's message but they don't. Instead they use his name to preach their own fears and greed and selfishness and the corrupt masses eat it up like it's Manna from heaven
@family lowe i know what christians believe because they have a strangehold on my country's culture, politics and laws. I also read the bible, i read biblical scholarship and i have read christian books. I do this because of how dominant christianity is. Evil is BS. That's what it is. There are people who do things most people would consider bad and so we have to deal with that, but there isn't some metaphysical force or evil.
There is no good reason to be a christian in 2020. Have you actually read the bible? Most christians i talk to have not (just snippets cherry picked or edited by clergy). If you have and you're still a christian, it's always sad to see. To be fair, we all that said, there are so many sects of christianity, it's hard to say x, y or z sect represents them all. I'm just referring to the obvious dominant christian ideas in western culture (e.g. sexual "purity", anti sex for pleasure, the afterlife is more important than this life, there is a soul and it's more important than your body, there is an afterlife, there is a heaven and hell, jesus was supposedly a great guy who existed, there is a struggle between good and evil, end times are eventually coming, people shouldn't get high, homosexuality is bad, etc, etc, etc).
@family lowe I have read the bible. Like a novel from cover to cover. Didn't find it to be all that compelling. Especially the old testament part. Jesus had some nice things to say but Christianity really seems to want to ignore the best bits and that's because most "Christians" don't read the bible. They just go to church for the social aspect and soothing their guilt over being a conservative right-wing asshole.
This is why young people are not turning to Christianity ...
@@garrycole9187 What took us so long eh brother? That hell concept was a fuck of an "invention" by the church, it has kept mankind under it's thumb for 2000 years now. I'd doubt that any of the Romans would have believed there would still be 2 billion followers in the year 2020, they'd probably laugh their asses off!!
@Ester Tana
Catholicism is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, mentioned in Revelation 17. You’d better do your research!
@@garrycole9187 and because education has improved, together with access to facts and knowledge generally via the internet.
For young people it would be a kind of social suicide at the moment... Better to dedicate oneself to money, consuming, lifestyle, culty stuff...not as dangerous. What about tolerance, religious freedom, equal rights, reason? The 60ies and 70ies were so much easier for children/young people...less cynical, less bitter.
@Ester Tana If you are young then I advise you to not go anywhere near a priest. Also read your bible. Nothing will turn you into an atheist faster than reading than that horrible fairy tale.
Not even a little bit surprising to non-Christians out here
or non-whites.
@@Barklord Similar story here. Not minding the need to social distance this holiday season one bit. I have seen a lot of scary stuff surface in certain people's character (or rather, what is lacking in their character) under the pressures we are all experiencing this year.
@@worrywart1311 what you mean by non white. You think Hispanic, Asian and black Christians are any better?
@@dendrien I have found them to be more humble and true. I'm a white woman who's seen too many white christians being hypocritical about humanity, which drove me away from religion and disgusted me.
@@Barklord Ditto! That's what I was taught in sunday school as well. Unfortunately, my family does as well. Have "divorced" my family for their idiocy and don't regret it at all.
Tax churches, they are some of the most profitable nonprofits!
"Profitable non-prophets." :-D And yeah, churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, etc, tax the bloody lot.
@tam gr. Tax them all. A properly run charity will be able to show that it has disbursed its money and not be liable for tax.
It took me years to figure out why they're not taxed. Sickening & eye opening.
They don't offer a services or product (technically) so I don't see any reason they should be taxed. That's asking for the parishioner to have their money taxed twice - their normal wages and what they give to the church.
YES! Tax the churches! Way overdue.
“American Christianity” is its own religion and NOT the faith of the Bible.
Well according to that logic... that's a Contradiction if "America Christianity" are reading from the same Bible who believe in the same faith, and to top it off... Christianity is Christianity no matter what country the religion itself is practiced by the faith. So there's no such thing as American Christianity.
@@anonymousperson531American Evangelical Christians are more political ....
The most segregated day of the week is Sunday, I grew up as a black southern Baptist and my light skinned creole family was the closest thing to white we ever saw
That truly is so sad.
A baptist Louisiana creole? I bet you got stories for real.
African Americans did not "PUSH" those people out of those areas... their hatred of my people based on color, drove them out of town. Words matter & the way those words are framed matter!
He did say that, if you listened carefully
Tax the churches and use the money for Medicare For All
Fucking bars
Let the churches keep their tax exemption and bar them from having any influence on politics.
They have to be taxed at 70%
And, remove the deduction for non charity church contributions!
That's a great idea!!
Oh yeah there's definitely a racist component when it comes down to Evangelical Christianity.
Big claim against a lot of people. You'd better be able to back that up. Can you?
On the survey in this book, mainline protestants and Catholics were only slightly less racist than evangelicals.
@@ericfernandez9 How is it a big claim?
@@Moszan I would like to know that too
It's a big claim because it ascribes the same sentiment to millions of people. How would he support that claim?
I was born with a moral compass; I don’t need someone else telling me what is right or wrong. The golden rule is all the “religion” I need.
I'm with you on this.
@canadianperspective don't know you personally but I assume your a liberal atheist. Funny thing is I think most liberal atheist would have been nazi.
A moral compass is innate in every human born. The ‘education’ that follows is where distortion happens and that one can thank religion for.
@@jadengreen929 Nazi's were more occultists then anything.
Yes golden rule is very important principle and centre piece of an ethical and moral life. It appears to have been first expressed by Confucius around 500BCE. It has since been embraced by Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, Stoicism, and "the rest of the world's major religions (to paraphrase Wikipedia) "143 leaders of the world's major faiths endorsed the Golden Rule as part of the 1993 Declaration Toward a Global Ethic"
I was raised Baptist. My grandpa was a very revered pastor and I'm one of the only black sheep.. They do not think they are racist! I found out a lot about my grandparents after they passed away. I love them, but I could never follow in their footsteps.
It takes practice and mindfulness to do better in our lives than our parents did. They taught us some good qualities, but bad behavior becomes your default personality when that’s how your family role models raised you.
You might find my book interesting: "An Unsealed Indictment: How American Slavery Violated the Scriptures" www.r2rockpublishing.com
@@r2rock1 LOL you're kidding right? Have you ever actually read the Bible? What's a fair price to ask for my daughter to be sold off as a sex slave? Give you a clue, the Bible gives a number.. It gives you permission to beat your slaves to within an inch of their life and as long as they don't die for a day or so you're not responsible because they are your property. The lengths you people will go to in order to explain away the Bible's clear support for slavery is absolutely insane.
@fotopoulos WS blanchette Black sheep has nothing at all to do with black people FFS... Black sheep are a real thing. You have a whole field of white sheep and some of them will rarely give birth to a sheep with black wool. Black wool was not desirable because you couldn't dye it like you could with white wool. The term just means an odd ball that doesn't fit with the rest of the flock and has absolutely nothing to do with racism..
@@Thezuule1 It appears you have a very limited understanding of not only the Bible, but of the nature of American slavery since you base your argument on 2 scriptures taken out of context. You would benefit greatly from reading my book.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mahatma Gandhi.
Their Christ is the other Jesus .
Spoken by one racist against the Dalit and indigenous South Africans.
I made a video revealing the Calendar time and geometry of time. This is the wisdom of Yahuwah Elohiym
Given how much support the Bible provides for slavery and racism, this quote doesn't make much sense.
How about we slam breaks on Gandhi quotes. He hated the living daylights out of black people.
Meanwhile, Jesus was a dark brown person.
Jesus was a Jew and looked like an average guy from the eastern Mediterranean. There was nothing special about his appearance at all. As the prophet Isaiah foresaw over 600 years before Jesus was born: "He [the Messiah] had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him" (Isaiah 53: 2b). In other words, Jesus looked like any other Jew from the Levant.
No one has any idea what he looked like or even if he existed, so your assertion is meaningless.
Patavinity Well, you may safely say that if (!) a person called (something like) Jesus at that time in that place existed whose dealings are indeed somehow causally linked to the later narratives about it we know, he would most probably have been of darker skin tone than usually presented in popular imagery today. 🤷🏻♂️ Unless there was another miracle. 😁
@@christiangeiselmann His depiction has varied greatly in different times in different places. Europeans depicted him as European; Ethiopians as Ethiopian; Japanese as Japanese. What he actually looked like is really irrelevant because people want Jesus to be a reflexion of themselves - it's a major aspect of his appeal. Why complain about that and not about all the other nonsense in the Bible which is clearly far more absurd?
Regardless, if he did exist then his precise complexion is unknowable. Jewish people today vary greatly in their skin colour and there are no living witnesses from 2000 years ago. We can be fairly certain he wasn't pale and blond, or black. Where he was situated between those two extremes is an insoluble mystery.
@@patavinity1262 "Jewish people today vary greatly in their skin colour" - and that's to be expected, considering the diaspora of the Jewish people. No assumptions about the appearance of Jesus can be made based on the appearance of modern Jews. Odds are, if he ever existed, Jesus would have resembled a modern-day person whose ancestors remained in the Levant, e.g. Syrian, Iraqi. We can say for absolutely sure that he would not have resembled the blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-guy image that white Christians prefer to imagine :)
Such a terrific interview! I'm 70, grew up in the segregated South. My family was really "unchurched", we only went to Methodist services on Easter. We moved to Idaho, my sister became "born again", she eventually found the equivalent of a Southern Baptist church there. She bullied our dad into making a public statement at that church that he had found the lord, she terrified him with fire and brimstone when he was in his 80's. She would refer to other denominations as not "real Christians", make fun of those who happened to be of faiths outside of the Abrahamic religions. It cannot be stated enough that part of the appeal tRump has with evangelicals is his bullying, mocking of others. That's how they rationalize his abhorrent behavior, he has been "saved", just like them. And, yes, on the outside it may not look like white supremacism, but indeed it is! Robert P. Jones, please keep up your good work here.
It's this country's original sin along with slavery.
I'm atheist, but I have visited the place where we are told Christ was born, and, well, not that it matters, but he wouldn't have had white skin, would he?
I never thought he did.
It even says that in the Bible they believe in. Jesus had skin of bronze and hair of wool.. Yea that's white lol...
Your right , he would have been stoned along with his mother , from having relationship with Celt etc. Jesus had to be very dark. Blond hair and white skin came from artesian painters in the middle ages .
@@Swnsasy You're no doubt referring to this passage in Revelations:
"The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters."
This actually says his hair was white. It isn't clear whether it was curly. And it doesn't say his skin was bronze. Bronze in a furnace glows orange.
Moreover, this is a description from a "vision" of the risen Jesus according to John. It doesn't necessarily describe his earthly appearance.
I'm not saying he was a white guy. He probably wasn't, if he actually existed at all. But it doesn't helping anything if you misrepresent what it says in the book.
@@Swnsasy could have just meant kinky and curly, color of hair isn’t specifically mentioned!
I'm currently reading an allied book by Katherine Stewart called "The Power Worshippers". It is about the entanglement of the 'christian right' and the republican party. A good but scary read.
I'm reading that book right now !
The funny part is my closest friends that will vote for Biden, are the only people I know that regularly go to church. But yes, keep building this simplistic ideological box for anyone that doesn’t agree with you.
@@ricardocabeza6006 do you think the "christian right" votes for Democrats?
@@ricardocabeza6006 does Donald Trump go to church at all and is he really a conservative Christian republican, or just an opportunist in it for himself.
@@rodneysettle8106 The Christian right doesn't support Trump because he's a Christian. They know he isn't. They support him because they supports their cause. Trump is a means to an end.
_Jeff Sessions suggests that the president’s own religious convictions are irrelevant, compares him to the dictators Abdel Fattah el-Sisi and Bashar al-Assad, and makes the case for choosing a strongman who can defend Christians over democratic politics._
_This isn’t reading between the lines; Sessions makes his views quite clear. When Plott asked Sessions, who is now running an underdog campaign to return to his old U.S. Senate seat in Alabama, how Christians could support Trump, he replied with a reference to Egypt and el-Sisi._
_“It’s not a democracy-he’s a strongman, tough man, but he promised to protect them. And they believed him, because they didn’t want the Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt. Because they knew they’d be vulnerable. They chose to support somebody that would protect them. And that’s basically what the Christians in the United States did. They felt they were under attack, and the strong guy promised to defend them. And he has.”_
Great interview, would love more like this on religion!
As someone training towards ordination in a Christian church, this is a really important conversation. Thank you for highlighting it.
@Neptunes Fire Go away lunatic.
Matthew Julius. Now that was an enlightened response. I would urge you to refrain from getting too involved in some of the swirling debates going on around this thread. There is alot of confusion out there.
This is why I'm leaving the sbc church after more than 30 yrs! Can't delude myself into continuing to believing I belong there as a minority.
Amen!
No wonder I am Anti Organized Religion (just like my father).
Christianity was not "organized" at it's inception.
Christianity is the most successful sect. A 2 milenia old sect.
You're almost there, Pamela, just drop the word "organised"
@family lowe and in your theology, trump would be the white knight jedi with a burning cross
I am a Satanist and I agree.
My experience with the Episcopal church is that they’re actively anti racist and quite proactive in the fight for social justice
Then, they should tell the truth, which is that the Israelites are BLACK PEOPLE!
@@lmorris6170 so the entire africa is the israelite?
Yes, the Episcopal Church is very progressive. I've attended PFLAG meetings at our local Episcopal Church
Episcopalians tend have become very progressive.
That's how the message of God should be interpreted. If you know better, you should do better.
Diversity is not a weakness , it is your strength.
Jesus Christ , wouldn't have even hung out with those types of people and he definitely would have had anything to do with these wealthy,and greedy evangelicals.
This is one of the most pertinent important topics to cover, and David you tackle it both poetically & beautifully. I really appreciate you're working what you do, please continue to help people understand the real value of things and that which lay hidden just out of sight
The Nationalist Roots of White Evangelical Politics | Dissent Magazin
- www.dissentmagazine.org/article/the-nationalist-roots-of-white-evangelical-politics
How Evangelicals became Republicans - th-cam.com/video/zpLCIc5PvQw/w-d-xo.html
Jerry Falwell Jr. Joins the Ranks of Evangelical Hypocrites
- nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/08/jerry-falwell-jr-joins-the-ranks-of-evangelical-hypocrites.html
The Hypocrisy of Christian Evangelicals | by Patrick Cage
- medium.com/@pcage8/the-hypocrisy-of-christian-evangelicals-9f99de340068
Christian Pastor DEMOLISHES Evangelicals' Support for Trump
- th-cam.com/video/4bwc_4RPiwU/w-d-xo.html
Martyn Whittock: Why Evangelical Christians Support Donald Trump & Israel
- th-cam.com/video/Nv6JfhRtMrM/w-d-xo.html
Is Trump’s evangelical support a contradiction?
- www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/7/9/21291493/donald-trump-evangelical-christians-kristin-kobes-du-mez
God bless you, Dave Packman for being bold enough and concerned enough to openly address racism in Christianity. So many white evangelicals choose to to ignore it's roots in the "church". It goes way back and your guest did the subject much justice. I appreciate the bravery he has displayed in doing so...and yours!
People fancy their selves christians but don't follow Christ have been around since Christ. They're called the apostate or antichrist
Every day I thank God for making me an atheist.
That separates you from "Christianity'. The Most High separated me from Christianity. He is separating a lot of people from Christianity. But He has shown me the true way. Yet, I see atheists as purer and more honest in general than Christians in general.
What is disappointing you is Euro-Christianity, formulated with an agenda.
Jesus is real and an atheist can find the real Jesus. He was Shemitic and not a Euro. He is real today and leads people in righteousness. Do you ever hear Evangelicals use the word, righteousness?
@@samuelnelson9010 Psst atheists don't believe whatever BS you just spouted
Your remark reminds me of Douglas Adams describing himself as "a devout atheist". What a guy.
🤣
I see what you did there!
Well sir, you just got a volunteer marketer for your show. This segment was very encouraging. Thank you.
I was raised Southern Baptist too. My Sunday School teachers were whit supremacists and KKK members. I grew to hate this religion.
As a teenager, my Sunday School classmates and I would go out to eat. On the way, they would drive through black neighborhoods, honking and yelling, "We're gonna black top these roads!" I sat in the back seat and cried. These people make me sick.
SHOCK NEWS: People who cling to primitive, outdated, nonsensical beliefs also cling to primitive, outdated, nonsensical beliefs.
Lol let’s hope religions all go the same way as the dinosaurs.
Jesus never existed
I guess the Baptist Church near me that’s a predominantly black congregation are actually white supremacist. I had no clue! But then again, the Proud Boys are white supremacist even with their non-white leader. Anything is possible with leftist logic!
Ricardo Cabeza ever wonder why it’s predominantly black? There’s two Baptist churches across the street from each other in my town. One predominantly black one predominantly white.
@@chasd9504... the second nearest one is also predominantly black... and by predominantly I mean white people also go there. I don’t live in this segregated fantasy you have. But thank you for projecting your own racism in the process.
My family went to church each Sunday, until the minister came to our house and told me father "You make X amount of money so you give us Y amount of money". That was the last time my family went to church except for Weddings and funerals, because we had to for family. I won't say one religion is better or one religion is the worst. Everyone has the personal right to decide on what they believe. I will tell you my opinion based on my family opinion. Don't talk about religion, sex or politics. It only ends in fights. welcome to 2020.
That is fucking awful.
While I was growing up my mother use to always say "don't mix Politics and Religion".. It is not for a good combination..
Don’t talk about religion and politics has been around for who knows how long. Hell, I went to Europe in 2013 and had to watch some informational videos about basically not offending people and it said that. Lol and I know that’s been a saying for far longer.
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle I guess it's because we, european actually try to be inclusive and get along with each other.
It doesn't mean it always works but we try.
Also Europe experienced a lot of crisises.
@@NicolasMendoula that’s kind of a rule of thumb in the US. But we also have Trump 2020 flags flying from the back of pickup trucks (ironic considering trump doesn’t seem to care much about the middle or lower class) so yeah... It’s interesting we don’t hear more about politics from Europe unless they affect the US here. Which I guess is fair enough. But we don’t even hear about Canadian politics or Mexican politics and they’re neighbors. I would like us to be more civil as neighbors here. But what can ya do?
When the Torah was first passed on verbally and then in written form, no white man had ever sat foot in Africa yet.
@Neptunes Fire Pope Gregory IX in 1452
The Torah is a black book our book that was stolen re worded and used against us
Fascinating interview! Have him on the show again.
Unlikely! If the author talks too much noone will buy the book.
As far as I can tell, christian ethics aren't racist, they're about turning the other cheek, golden rule, hate the sin and not the sinner, stuff like that. So if there are racist christians out there, they aren't living up to christian values.
To paraphrase Bill Maher. If the American Christian right had seen Jesus on the cross, they would have said, "The Romans are pussies. Jesus still has his eyes."
If you can scientifically measure (as this author did) that the more Christian you are, the more racist you are then I don't think so. The proof is in the pudding. Many Christians are cherry pickers and they don't pick the best cherries because something in the system itself pushes them not to repeatedly.
@@talyahr3302 _If you can scientifically measure (as this author did) that the more Christian you are, the more racist you are then I don't think so._
That you think is irrelevant.
_The proof is in the pudding._
The scientists provided you with proof. But you don't believe in evidence that contradict your beliefs. Talk about cherry picking.
Segregation was the biggest issue for the American Christian right until the 1970s, when it was replaced by abortion. The RNC tactic to tap into the racism is known as the Southern Strategy.
@@talyahr3302 I can respond to the "If you can scientifically measure" part. I've glanced at the survey his stats are based off of, and it doesn't seem to directly* measure racism. Here's one of the questions he mentioned using (in another interview):
Q. 22 Do you think recent killings of African American men by police are isolated incidents or are they part of a broader pattern of how police treat African Americans?
Can we really tell whether someone holds disdain towards non-whites or thinks of them as lesser than, based on if they answer one way or the other on that? I really don't think so. It doesn't seem like an important distinction.
He says that when you compare white Christians to white non-Christians, they are about twice more likely to think of them as isolated incidents.
*edit: Actually, I forgot. In his other interview, he said that these same people report holding warm feelings or something like that towards blacks, as in, the data suggests that they aren't racist, they just are less likely to see things through the lens of being due to systemic racism.
I am an autistic man on disability and I was told by somebody at my church when I was struggling that God's not going to bless me because I live on other people's money because I'm on disability and I should get a job definitely superiority and I would even say a little bit of neo-nazism horrible and I was very hurt by that
The racist Christian reading also used to say that blackness was the curse of Ham, Noah's son for a rather odd story in Genesis.
MATT, just read why Hamm was cursed by his father Noah and the consequences. Genesis.
@@davidferrier5355 Ham was never cursed by his father. Re read the story. Slavery on skin color was never Biblically justified.
@@davidferrier5355 Ham caused Noah to curse Ham's son Canaan. Ham was not under the curse. Also Ham's other sons Mizraim and Cush were not under the curse; only Canaan was under the curse. But black Africans are biblically considered the offspring of Cush, not Ham. In both the Old and New Testaments, black Africans are "Cushites." Northern Africans are considered the offspring of Mizraim (principally, the Egyptians).
The so-called "Curse of Ham" fell upon the Canaanites, who throughout scripture are depicted as despicable. Not so with Cushites, the biblical examples of whom are usually depicted favorably.
So the use of the so-called "Curse of Ham" as a rationale for slavery of black Africans is simply wrong on its face. The Bible never says such a thing, as even the most elementary reading easily shows.
@@kirkdarling4120 Thank you for that explanation sir. Much appreciated. ✊🏿
@Helen&Nugent Spillman White nationalism has polluted Christianity for 500 years.
154 southern white baptists evangelicals gave this a thumbs down.
They don't like hearing the truth but we know it's true because we see it everyday . God is revealing everyone and everything thing at this very moment.
of course.
Just because someone says they are a christian does mean that they are one. The bible says you will know by the fruits of the spirit whether or not they are a true christian or a fake one.
David, thank you so much for this segment. Incredibly important and informative.
"If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism." (Albert Einstein)
Possibly Dan. I've learnt 3 things which seem helpful.
1) Actions have consequences
2)To try and end a sentence or statement with " What do you think " ?
3)To live my life observing the following quote ( Dalai Lama ) "If you can't be of benefit to beings - at least don't harm them "
4) I'm going to die one day
Sorry Dan never was any good at maths !
"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology." Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States.
That's not a real quote.
@@shlockofgod Jefferson did reject miracles and the Trinity though.
@@revwroth3698 That's only part of the quote, and misconstrues its meaning:
"this was the real ground of all the attacks on you: those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, endeavored to crush your well earnt, & well deserved fame." - Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, Washington, March 21, 18011
Wasn't he a deitist? Or am I misremembering?
@@Echo81Rumple83 He was a Christian deist, meaning he believed God created the world and then buggered off. It also entails believing divine revelation isn't real, because that would require divine intervention from God, who deists believe is absent. Hence all knowledge of God is derived from extrapolating from observations of the natural world, which is essentially the argument from design.
Jefferson also wrote the Jefferson Bible, in which Christ's life and teachings are taught, but with everything supernatural, such as the resurrection, removed. As far as Jefferson was concerned, Christ was great for his moral insight, but was in no way a divine being; which, along with Jefferson's rejection of the trinity, is in keeping with Christian deism.
This is important stuff, and explains a lot about the 'American Dream/Nightmare'.
Right on, David. This needs to be said, heard, and understood by everyone.
I'm not young anymore and I've became agnostic for some time now. Every religion is unfortunately xenophobic somehow. I do not need this hateful feeling in my heart. Furthermore, I'm still overwhelmed at the Love sower character Jesus was. I have no intention (no time either) for hate or prejudice speeches.
In my Christian past I used to see how many people go to church and hold Bibles without a real sense of Humanity out of the temple
In the "Book of Mormon" the Lamanites were cursed with skins of blackness.
9:44-10:02 It’s pretty clear the racists are the captain of the ship.
beautifully said!
Very interesting and informative discussion. Thank you David for having Mr. Jones on your show.
I read the book, White Too Long! Buy the book, you will learn the truth about the church's history. Worth every penny!
It's crazy how much I so truly enjoy your videos David. Please, continue your hard work, and know that people like me appreciate you, and we respect your dedication to the truth, your honesty and your conviction in your beliefs.
i love your content! please keep up the good work !!
So glad I realized I was an atheist-while-black a decade ago. I no longer have these internal struggles. It's great David is covering this book and topic because as with many things in American history involving non- white ppl and their treatment, many Americans do not know. But on a personal level, it's all just...exhausting.
This is why I'm glad of being an atheist. I'm done with religious fairytales.
It's not religion it's the people use it for power
@@brandontrammel4581 I just don't trust religion. I'm not against all religious people but I'm only against religious fundamentalists.
@@christopherrichards2350 trust me I understand. As a young black man, I had to go through my own journey. I'm a Christian bcuz I want to be and don't judge others or their beliefs. It's sad bcuz they don't even follow the principles they supposed too. They'd call Jesus himself a socialist and immigrant and shun him. They're not about love and understanding so I understand no hate from me
@@brandontrammel4581 abrahamic religions are inherently designed to be authoritarian
@Saintsofyhwh Messianic I still don't believe in religious fairytales
TRULY QUOTED
Donald J. Trump - “I’m the least racist person you’ve ever met.”
If Jesus did exist it doesn’t matter what racial makeup he had, his message had no racial bias...
The point is, he became caucasian as a strategy for advancing white supremacy. Symbols are powerful in human psychology!
@@Matira269 of course but it’s honestly a hoax as it is written in the 10 commandments to NOT make any images of the lord...
When I talk about the difference between faith, which is personal, and religion, which is communal, the discussion pretty much always boils down to ‘Look at all the good things religion has brought us! Focus on that’.
My answer is always ‘Show me one good thing that could not be done by good people without religion?’. Haven’t heard one yet.
A pic of Whyte Jesus:. crickets...
A pic of Blacke Jesus: "Jesus didn't exist" or "it shouldn't matter what color he was".
The major hypocricy I noted with the abrahamic faith is this. When shook off the yoke of spprsion, the came the oppressors. When the early christian, shook off their yoke of oppresison, they became the oppressors.When Muslims shook off the yoke of oppression, they became the oppressors. When protestants where able to shake off the yoke of oppression, they became the oppressors.
Good discussion, we need more discussion on where racism and hatred stem from.
This does not surprise me. I am a born again atheist raised as Catholic (of sorts). I have noticed that most religious people thrive on the concept of exclusivity and the ‘in’ and ‘out’ thinking in their world view is a breeding ground for any type of discrimination be it fear of gays, people of color or people who are of a different social/economic bracket. This is one reason why I became atheist after spending literally decades trying to understand what the hell was going on. I feel a massive sense of release in not belonging to any ‘group’ although I do recognise that many people who do belong to a ‘group’ find great comfort and security in it. Shame that it has to cause harm to those outside of it.
💯
"No one does bad things in the name of Atheism." -Ricky Gervais
@Jacob Wood He is using his platform, I'm glad he is. He does speak less about it than Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.
“It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority, that can convict you of thought crime, while you are asleep... a celestial North Korea.” - Christopher Hitchens on religion
Was with Noah sons story (ham, shem Japhet) start the justification of black people slavery not with Adam and Cain.
Exactly, along with the Cain analogy they forgot to mention the Curse of Ham:
The curse of Ham (actually placed upon Ham's son Canaan) occurs in the Book of Genesis, imposed by the patriarch Noah. It occurs in the context of Noah's drunkenness and is provoked by a shameful act perpetrated by Noah's son Ham, who "saw the nakedness of his father". The exact nature of Ham's transgression and the reason Noah cursed Canaan when Ham had sinned have been debated for over 2,000 years.
The story's original purpose may have been to justify the subjection of the Canaanite people to the Israelites, but in later centuries, the narrative was interpreted by some Christians, Muslims and Jews as an explanation for black skin, as well as a justification for slavery. Similarly, the Latter Day Saint movement used the curse of Ham to prevent the ordination of black men to its priesthood.
Depends on the denomination. The "mark of Cain=dark skin" doctrine is usually the foundation. Then they also have to add explanations to get the "cursed lineage" through the flood, for example, that one of Noah's sons married a black woman.
@@Tmanaz480 my comment was the justification of black slavery by the Christian theologian.
Thats a Great point for the man made stories, he looked at his father's nakedness and a curse was placed upon him and all of his descendants, but that still is a story of justification in mistreating someone base on a tale. but a great point of correction for the subject being discussed. Peace.
@@InHumanoXY great fact but still a story to oppress and mistreat. Ham, Caine, Judas, this that and the other all the same man made stories. Peace.
All religions should be put behind an 18+ law. Only when you're an adult and understand what religions are then you can make your choice of which one to choose.
Biden 2020!
Trump 2020
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@@underworld7148 you are painfully autistic and we pity you immensely, may god have mercy on your tainted soul.
@The Pool Shark you still believe those fake number. When they are flat out telling you they are fake
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I was raised Southern Baptist. I consider myself a survivor. I greatly appreciated this interview. I have spent much of my youth and adulthood trying to wrap my head around how a church body can be completely racist for many years....
You ROCK Dave!
This is 1 of the best videos about American Christians. Was raised catholic, faced the hate from my evangelical southern Christian cousins. Now I can’t stand the thought of being associated with any branch of Christianity in this nation. Thankfully I’ve been freed of the chains for over a decade and have a happier outlook on life itself. Their Being constantly brainwashed with racist/bigoted views from birth, and Catholics had this big chance to spring clean the pedophiles out of the church, yet chose not to. I’d hate to have that on my head.
Careful, David: You'll trigger the apologists for America's dark past.
Thumbs down to this comment
@@t-man5196 🎉
@@ItsAGoodChannel come again?
@@ItsAGoodChannel say again man
Interesting. I'd like to see Davids take on the Jewish roots of Communism, Neo-conservatism & Neo-liberalism in a future episode.
Thank you for this Pakman!!
I am not a defender of Catholicism, in fact I am an atheist . However, I went to Catholic schools in the 40's, 50's and 60's in Queens,NY. There was no evidence of discrimination that I could discern, even in hindsight. There were black children in all my classes, every one of them. They were not treated differently than the white children. Just thought you outta know.
Anytime in church history that people did unspeakable things in the name of religion, that was evidence of wickedness in conflict with the Bible's actual message.
Ah yes the “Real Christian ™️” argument. Similar to the “Real Islam ™️” Muslims like to use.
Fun fact, the violent expansion of the Islamic empire during the Umayyad Caliphate, into Europe, wasn’t even viewed as a sin. Only killing true followers of Muhammad is viewed as a sin. Which means we should probably attack the morality of Christianity...
So how do you explain the bible's messages about how to treat your slaves? Or the treatment of women as sexual slaves? Or how to punish a rape victim? or murdering children (well to be fair just the little boys, you can spare the virgin girls). Or the human sacrifice?
@@alansimmons9621... that’s Old Testament, David’s people would be better served answering that. The basis of Christianity is the New Testament. I’m glad you’re well educated on various religion basics.
@@ricardocabeza6006 Your bible (if you are a Christian) includes both old and new in fact Jesus said that he has come to fulfill the laws and prophets (Matthew 5:17). Also Paul told the runaway slave to love and obey his master. Surely a benovent God would have just said "Don't own people. It's shitty and very wrongeth"
If it exists in the Catholic Church in the US, it’s an American problem, not a Catholic problem. Catholics had a bad patch in the 1400s-1600s (the dark ages) but outside of that, slavery has been condemned. Some church leaders, very early on, were freed slaves
Wow that was super interesting. The interviews are always good but I'll probably buy that book
Reverend Kenneth Copeland flew into the Executive Airport, in one his Gulfstream jets. Joel Osteen drove his Maserati to pick him up at the terminal.
"Our country is experiencing God's 10th Plague of Egypt", lamented Joel... "Our flocks are in dire need of spiritual guidance. What should we do.?"
Rev. Copland replied.....
"Let us Prey."
Why am I not surprised?
He should have asked about the correlation between Christianity, conservatives and racism.
Right wing Christians are conservatives.
Great interview! 👍🏻
We might have came here in different ships. But now we are all in the same boat.
Shut up ! No "we" aren't in the same boat. See any other people crying out and mourning and protesting for their sons and daughters being shot down and degraded daily around the earth? Just be quiet
This basically confirms what I already knew. It's nice to have empirical data, though.
Thank you for being so open minded to touch on this ! A subject that needs to be brought to the forefront a lot more in the south !
That Brown Jesus will be rejected when He returns...
He will return as King and He will be doing the rejecting.
Sad but true
Great interview, David. Well thought out questions with sincere, albeit shocking responses. Well done. 👍
So glad the author says it was from the beginning with the indigenous inhabitants in NA.
It’s not only the hypocrisy that’s driving people away from Christianity and religion in general. It’s the lack of any evidence that there’s a shred of truth.
Will denominations split on immigration and police brutality?
Christianity is not about oppression, but more about submission.
Thank you for this discussion very few white people want to talk about or address God Bless you.
I am a pastor and I completely agree with this guy. Also as an Asian American, so much of white America is ingrained in the Christian teaching as THE Christianity. I also diagree with those that are using this to say all of religion is bad. Religion has also influenced many good people in times when the larger culture was backwards and when it was dangerous to believe otherwise. People like Wilberforce were influenced by religion to go against slavery not to mention people like MLK Jr. Religion has been used for evil, there is no excuse for that. Religion has also inspired many to risk their lives for their fellow man.
Before this video I got an ad for the Catholic Church talking about how progressive they are. LOL
Great work here david, nice content and a great guest.
Can't understand the christian thinking...a religion not having white european origins nor having nor a savior who is european...hating jews but Jesus is a jew ....what am I missing?
@S E he's still a jew can't change that and just because a group of jews did something 2000 years ago it doesn't mean you punish jews that had nothing to do with it second it's obviously a religion founded by non whites and jesus wasnt white can't change that either....like I said it's an inconsistent thought process and I don't get it. Like the whole God sent himself to sacrafice himself to save us all from ..........himself.....
@S E 👍
Great episode/interview!!
I was raised in a Canadian Pentecostal church..left it before I was twenty... I know whereof you speak! My elders are now in their eighties and 'trust Pence' because he prays so nicely and Trump because he stands behind Israel, for the fundamentalist Christian votes. There is no changing their minds and they will continue to vote Conservative in Canada, heaven help us! That's Republican to you, though not quite so extreme. I follow you quite closely and agree with you closely... keep up the great work!
Rihanna and Rocky will have additional children. In their music video together in the wedding scene, they were surrounded by both girls and boys. Rihanna said she wanted 3-4 kids, and Rocky said he always wanted a daughter to spoil like a princess. Based on those statements, yes, they will have more children in the future!
Great information David!
I grew up in a very Christian conservative family. They all love Trump and have always been somewhat racist and judgmental, but because of Trump, their racist and bigoted beliefs are to a whole new level and they're now emboldened to say or post racist ideas openly. I don't feel like I can be around my family anymore.
The more history I learn the more I'm glad I'm no longer a believer.
Kingdomfor1. Pls don’t let history keep you from God. Allow it to bring you closer to Him. I will never ever renounce my faith in the Lord.
@@chosen2bhis657I was told from an early age that there was a God, then when i grew up i realised that people tell lies , then i thought if god is so clever to to create a universe, then why did he leave it upto men whom he knows tell lies , to pass on his story , why should I believe what you or any other person tells me, it dosen't make any sense , and if god exists he should know that. I've been told by many people that gods exist in many different cultures , so obviously they can't all be correct , so somebody is lying, why should I believe any of them .
Absolutely immaculate topic AND title, Mister Pakman. Discussions on topics like these are very important and even a necessity. Especially in America, especially today, and especially in such a tumultuous time. Subscribed, belled, liked, I've done all the interactions. Good shit, David. As a left leaning centrist you may be hesitant to address topics these weighty and seen as "radical" but i say that history will absolve us and i urge you to research more. Although these videos dont get the interactions, i argue that this should not waver your contributions to important topics such as these. Some say that sets the bar too low but you and I both know the bar for Americans is in hell. Nonetheless, strive to better yourself xx