The British answer to Hamilton is Six. Looking at historical figures from a different lens,talking about political and social commentary that are relevant for today, the diverse cast and amazing fun music.
I kind of hate the argument that because of the way Six is structured that it isn’t a musical. A Chorus LIne is structured in pretty much the exact same way and it is regarded as one of the defining entries into the American theatre canon and recognised as such with its many Tony wins and Pulitzer Prize for Drama. See also: Assassins, Ride The Cyclone, Cats, etc. Revues and musicals with revue-like structures are a valid form of musical theatre, and anyone who says otherwise probably doesn’t know that much about theatre.
Six does disrespect the actual women in some cases though, sometimes by agreeing with the lies Henry spread about them and presenting them in ways they were not. I enjoy the music and the show but I wish people would stop acting like they understand the history because they watched it.
I just get a bit bored of people always trying to find ‘the next hamilton’, hamilton was so good because it was new and fresh and not really done before, so to have the hamilton success you’d have to come up with an original idea, I think I’d be far less critical of new shows if they just existed independently of hamilton
As someone from the US, I sort of saw Six as the British answer to Hamilton (y'all made the Spice Girls after all). Interested to hear about this one though!
I mostly went to see Carrie and didn't know much about the show. I did enjoy it and I loved the folk twist to much of the music. Having said that, I agree with most of your review (I loved Paperwork!). It certainly needs a great deal of time in workshop to fully bring the audience on board and have empathy for the characters. You're so right about the ends of the songs not being clear. There were at least two songs on Monday when the audience did the dreaded thing of starting to clap but the song wasn't finished. Nothing makes an audience more nervous about applauding than that so it did mean a few awkward silences where there should have been applause.
Hearing you talk about repetitive lyrics had me giggling remembering that in Godspell their is an entire song where the ONLY lyric is "Prepare Ye The Way of the Lord"
I feel like the issue with gaining sympathy is wild, because it feels so simple from a thematic point. I can imagine a single song that uses the creation and lighting of gunpowder as an analogy working simply. A slowly ramping group number that describes the persuasion and how it relates to the creation of this explosion. It builds with snippets of stories of repression and bigotry reaching a fever pitch and eventually breaking into a moment of still. A single moment of injustice described in still detail, the spark. BOOM the song ripples into a scream for justice. Justice in the only way that’s fair, retaliation! Four minutes, you could get the audience hyped up and foaming at the mouth for vengeance in four minutes.
I saw Treason and I actually LOVED it! Carrie was brilliant and so was the whole rest of the cast Bradley Jayden etc... - I cried during 'Inevitable' full on sobbing - The music was brilliant but sometimes the aims were weird (Like the handing over of the flat from the Earl to Percy - was it his treason?????) However I did still really enjoy it. I completely agree with all of the points!
I looked at the costumes in that clip and went "oh, you didn't have to do that..." I gotta say Aaron Burr being the narrator in Hamilton is pretty predictible - Judas in JCS, Che in Evita... The story telling reminds me of Notre Dame de Paris - at least in English - you're expected to already have a good grasp of the plot because the show isn't telling you! It's a very difficult story to pitch, sympathetic telling of a terrorist plot... sounds like they got a lot of workshopping still to go.
Thanks for making such interesting content! Being from Switzerland and not being able to see most of the musical productions live, watching your videos makes me feel like being a little closer to the stagey world 😍☺️🥳
I saw the show on Tuesday too and agree wholeheartedly with this. One of my main problems personally was that the songs all felt so BIG that by the time we got to the second act, the 11 o’clock numbers (of which there seemed to be multiple) had so little impact on me, because there was no musical progression to that point. Individually, the songs sounded beautiful, especially with the stellar cast turning out incredible vocals and the incredible orchestra at the concert. As a whole, however, it felt almost one-note. Carrie sounded beautiful but by the time her last solo rolled around my immediate thought was “ah, they’re wheeling her out for yet another sad sounding song”. I felt that the music lacked diversity or balance - save for the King and Cecil’s songs which sounded jarringly out of place. I just wish that there were more lively, uptempo or even subtler, quieter pieces in between the big numbers. It had me feeling bored - something I rarely experience in a theatre. I really feel like there’s potential here but boy, it needs so much work before I’d ever dream of wanting to sit through it again.
I don't know whether either of the writers have a Catholic background, but I'd tend to think they don't as it would help to explain why the Catholicism side of the show wasn't really fleshed out at all - you're absolutely right about it needing something to help with that. Plus all of Martha's songs started to blend together for me, she was *such* a downer. I can't express it any more eloquently than that!
I was also at the Tuesday night performance and everything you say is accurate. Frustrated about the king (who is historically known to have preferred the company of men) to have been written so camp, but fabulous performance. Also loved the inclusion of current topic of lack of priminister. They need to take the feedback from people like yourself and other reviewers and go and workshop it more. They have the makings of something good. One idea I had was rather than 1 narrator, they should split that role into 2 people basically discussing the plot and how it came about. I did like that guy fawkes was but a footnote, he's the one historically we all know but no one really understands who else was involved, for that element I applaud them. I think it has the makings of something amazing and dam the vocals from Bradley and Carrie were just delicious. Worth it just to see them sing those songs. Favourite songs were the Day Elizabeth died, take things into our own hands and inevitable, but you can tell they are designed to be crowd pleasers Also just want to add the dam guy fawkes hat. I was having heart palpations waiting for someone to move it, kick it or trip over it
I went to the show last night (Tuesday) and really enjoyed it. CHF singing The Inevitable was brilliant and if you can overlook the obvious 'king' comparison to Hamilton, King James was funny and a great addition. I'm just a random bloke who enjoys theatre / musicals so am not really qualified in any way to critique the details, but I think you've put together there some really constructive, valuable and informative thoughts on how to move the show forward. I appreciate that, especially in a world where 'extremes' is seemingly the way many go to get clicks and views. Keep up the good work.
I’ve been waiting so long for this. I remember the lock down show they did back in 2020??? Or 2021 not sure. I remember thinking it was a mess that needs a ton of work but I could see a lot of potential (I hope they got rid of the “Blow” song, if you know you know)
To be fair Guy Faulkes was never central to the gunpowder plot, he’s the hired gun for want of a better expression. Les Dennis played Robert Cecil? WTF? Robert Cecil was under five feet tall and had scoliosis of the spine. As was about as much of a basis for a comedy character as Javert in Les Mis. They could’ve had Robert Cecil as the narrator in Treason, and had a disabled man front and centre. (God knows theatre needs more of them) Also, an English King James? Really?
Thank you Mickey-Jo for another brilliant review! Please could you review To kill a Mockingbird at the Gielgud? I thought it was a 4 star show but would love to hear your thoughts!
Also, for Catholics being persecuted, it's a SHAME the show didn't focus on that, because yeah, Queen Elizabeth brutally executed 130 priests, tortured many Catholic priests, and tried to force the Irish to become protestants with threats and forcing them out of their own land. That's so sad they didn't focus on that!!!
I can understand why they didn't focus on that too much, it's a risk to highlight something with potential for drawing controversy. Even in school I remember there being arguments regarding which was worse, Mary 1st burning protestants alive as heretics or Elizabeth I hanging Catholics. Seems simpler to stick with a message of extremism in all its forms is a bad idea.
But look at how her sister, Queen bloody Mary Tudor treated protestants who wouldnt convert to catholicism.....or their dad. Messy time to be religious
I found this musical searching on Spotify two years ago, and I was obsessed with take things into our own hands. I’ve been following it since, and I do think it’s great. I hope it makes it to the west end
I love your opinions. They remind me of everything I believe in, in musicals productions and reminded me of what I don't like and why -- I say this, because I feel recently I've gotten into a habit of only saying what was nice about shows and also lose the words to describe and analyise what I didn't like and why. Thank you, Mickey Jo! xxxx P.S: Yes, "treasonous" is a word. :)
I heard that line too! I also felt that the repeated motif of catesby losing his way and becoming dangerous because he lost his wife and percy becoming a respectable good man since he met his wife completely undermines the women into a good little wife role
Well, contrary to very recent decades, that's what married women were perceived to be in the 17th (as well as every other) century, wrong though that might have been.
I went on Tuesday Night cannot deny i am a massive Bradley Jaden fan and would see any production that he is involved in because you know that no matter what he is going to give it 150% and he did! I agree with all of your observations of the show and agree it needs some more work but suppose putting it on for 2 dates and getting the feedback / reviews gives them the opportunity to do that. I enjoyed having the injection of some humour in it as i do with Les Mis you need some light and shade. The thing i loved the most was the Chemistry between Carrie and Bradley who led the cast well. I think Carrie had some fab songs and i cried at Inevitable. Would i see it again? Yes if Bradley was in it for sure, and what a wonderful venue it was forgot hw lovely the Theatre Royal was as my last visit to this theatre was the closing night of Miss Saigon! MickeyJo Loved your honest review and agree Bradley might well be great in Jeckyl and Hyde another one i have seen many years ago, just hope he goes on to something great when his time is up in Les Mis shortly with a role that befits his talent!!
Did they just get the history wrong? As a story the gunpowder plot is so interesting, the echos of today where an unpopular leader uses a terrorist action to incite patriotic fervour , and then the scapegoat goes down in history as a bumbling idiot based purely on PR. Having some of the women being the mothers of the conspirators would be better, an age old generational conflict, and the loss of faith song ‘inevitable’would make more sense. A duet between the older wiser women who had lost family during Henry, Edward and Elizabeth’s reign rallying against the Younger wife naively supporting her husband in a discussion about the meaning of blind faith, sacrifice and what that really meant, similar to ‘I know him so well’ from chess. The mother and the wife both spotlighted with the man in the centre, finally choosing his wife and exiting the stage whilst his mother lies broken alone sobbing, knowing her sons are going to certain death and throwing away her rosary in despair.
Re: the repetitive ideas/words That is how iv felt with "Written in the Stars" and much of the ALW Cinderella score. It drives me crazy. (No disrespect to the performances of those pieces.)
i completely agree with your assessment, MickeyJo! I went to see Treason on Monday. I absolutely loved the composition and the performances, but the plot, text and pacing seemed a bit half-baked. That's kind of what made me think that there was supposed to be scripted bits that they didn't perform?! I really hope that they take critics' feedback and workshop the show some more to make it its own, as I think it has potential!
I saw Treason on Monday and I agree with everything you said, it felt like it was trying to be too many things for me. Lots of it was a bit jarring, it needed to be a lot darker aesthetically for me. But the music... I love it. Granted there are a few songs that are repetitive as you say, but songs like The Day Elizabeth died, Blind Faith, Take things into our own hands, Inevitable... I loved them and they've been stuck in my head for days. I like the beautiful folk music sound some of these songs have, they're really beautiful. I feel like this show has so much potentially musically but just needs a lot more work to figure out what its trying to be.
It really does sound as though a good 'book' and associated recitative need to be developed pdq to string together what appear to be, mainly, very good musical pieces. Othwerwise, sadly, not everyone in a potential audience would be sufficiently familiar with the details behind the Gunpowder Plot and its protagonists to fully appreciate the storyline.
Thank you for such a thoughtful review - far more articulate than I could be at 1.00am! On the topic of Les Mis, I recently saw the new production in the West End, and would be really interested to hear your thoughts on it. I’ve loved the musical since I was in primary school, but I was very diasppointed by the changes, especially the increased violence, particulalry towards female characters. I feel that Fantine's pain for example, is so powerfully conveyed through the music that it isn't necessary for us to see her assaulted. I was similarly disturbed by graphic depictions of violence towards women on stage in Scottish Ballet's The Crucible, and I worry that eventually audiences will no longer be shocked by these scenes.
The new staging of Les Mis is not great at all. It’s too fast. It’s too edited. It’s too over sung. It is too violent towards woman, in parts. The clothing is too colorful. The staging seems too cluttered. The One Day More student march is too high school choreographed to the point that it’s amusing. And my biggest pet peeve is the electric lamps that hang over the women’s work table in the At The End Of The Day number. There were no electric lamps in 1823 France. Since the 80’s, I’ve seen Les Mis 30+ times and the original staging , costumes and unedited score/ lyrics are unparalleled. I saw this new staging when it original toured as the 25th anniversary production and when I heard that they were going to replace the original London stage with this inferior staging, I high tailed it to London to see the original staging one last time for I knew I would never go and see Les Mis in this new form ever again.
I don't think I'd return to see this production either, and I'm sad I didn’t get a chance to see the original for a last time before it closed. I tried to be open-minded seeing the new staging, but I found all the changes you mentioned really jarring. I did like the curtain inspired by Hugo's paintings though, and I'm glad I'll still always have his beautiful novel to go back to, and my symphonic recording on CD!
@@rachelj2795… Yes! Hugo’s artwork was cool, but, yeah, it’s my favorite musical of all time and I’m not thrilled with the changes! Like you, I’m going to stick to listening to the original London cast and the original Paris cast and try to hold on to my memories of the past productions I’ve seen.
@@bookemdano7567 I completely understand. The original production has played such a big part in my life, and it feels really sad that I won't see it again. It was reassuring knowing that it was always there and would always be the same perfect show that I had fallen in love with as a child, and that has brought me so much inspiration, hope and comfort over the years. I feel very grateful to have had so many opportunities to see it though, and am sure we will never forget how special it was.
As someone from the NY, I was looking forward to your review as I can't see the show. I only know (but love) the 7 or so songs that were recorded. Honestly, I am so surprised by the direction the show took. I did not realize that Martha Percy was the focus. I had thought it focused more on the plotters with Robert Catseby being the lead. Having seen the Kit Harrington show Gunpowder, this seemed logical, especially with how Take the Whole Ship Down is layered. I think Martha and Anne Vaux could have acted as great foils to the radicalization of the plotters as devout people who went another way. I also agree that Martha writing the letter in hopes to save Thomas sounds a lot better than what they ended up doing. Thanks so much for the review!
What night did you go to? I went to the last night.. I loved it but thought it ended rather abruptly.. for such a gorgeous hair raising build up, they fought and died (not that it was obvious how) in 1 song.. I wanted more! But the songs are fabulous, honestly absolute ear worms and the cast were absolute chef’s kiss and I was the second row right from the back so if I felt the emotion from there, wow.. they nailed it
I saw treason on Tuesday and I loved it. The music was great and the characters were great too. I do hope it becomes a full west end production. I do agree that they should work on it a little more add more script to it but all though was a great experience I had with my mum. X
kind of off topic, but also kind of on. would you be willing to settle a debate for me. could you do a video that covers what 1776 A New Musical's 11o'clock number is, I would say it is 'Molasses To Rum' where as others say it is 'Is Anybody There' in the video could you give a why / why not for each.
The plotters met at Triangular Lodge which is about 2.5 miles from me It's absolutely tiny and claustrophobic, but you get a sense of the extent they had to go to be able to practice their religion
19:56 it may seem like a dumb idea. But, that is exactly how the gun powder plot was discovered a letter was sent to a Catholic member of Parliament telling them that an attempt would be made on the kings life and they showed it to the monarchy and that’s when Fawkes was discovered. Also, the barrels of gunpowder where transported 14:22 The only thing debatable is who sent the letter as it was anonymous.
The questioning of the existence of God is very relevant to modern Catholics. Yes, alot of Catholics are still VERY strict believers (my father was as is most of his family) but many MANY Catholics today are agnostic (my mother is an agnostic-catholic). A lot of "us" (I've yet to be excommunicated but I'm an ex-catholic/athiest/Satanist) are Catholic in the sense of it being just something our families do rather than having any belief at all. I wonder if that "bringing history and mondern day together" thing Hamilton (and some other successful shows have done with historical mythology like Hadestown and Jesus Christ Superstar) have done. Based on what you've said about the character questioning if God is real and the picture in the thumbnail I don't think it was likely done well though.
Treason came to me in a weird part of my life, and maybe that's why it resonates with me so loudly. I first heard "Take Things into Our Own Hands" after it was leaked that the US Supreme Court was going to revoke Roe v. Wade (which they later did), and the musical felt like the only thing that truly recognized the pain and hopelessness I was feeling for having the government decide that your group suddenly has no bodily autonomy. I agree that the show would benefit from having more songs that highlight the character's emotions (other than Martha Percy). I think this show hits so hard for me without that is because I'm personally able to fill in the emotional gaps with my own experience being a persecuted minority in the US (for context, I'm a non-binary person with a uterus who also belongs to a religious minority). I think it'd be fantastic if they had key songs with Robert Catesby where his ability to manipulate these groups of furious Catholics is showcased (especially if they threw in cherry-picked scripture), but I can understand that they likely didn't lean into the religious aspect of the Gunpowder Plot because they didn't want to ostracize non-Catholics from connecting to the story. The vagueness of it all makes sense to me if you're looking at this from the perspective of Martha Percy exclusively. She doesn't know much about the plot or her husband's involvement, but she can see how it's changing the community around her. I think this is a beautiful story about how easy it is to radicalize average people who are in anguish for the right reasons. And through Martha, we see how easily a good message can be lost in hate, spite, and misplaced righteousness. As the US government cracks down on legislation against the queer community and loosens it for guns, I can see how it's changing my community. The resentment and fury is boiling, and it WILL explode. Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I like the show, and it feels deeply personal to me. (BTW today is Yom HaShoah; never forget)
Thanks for this Mickey; I've been waiting for this since 2020 when I saw Hadley Fraser singing 'Take this into our own hands'! I am upset that the show didn't dive into the emotional side of the show. THey should have told the story a bit like the BBC series Gunpowder starring Kit Harrington.
This was an amazingly true review of this show. I found it was very similar to Jesus Christ Superstar with James I songs. Best thing for me were the orchestrations and some of the harmonies. it will need far more characterisations and more of the plot itself to really make it work.
Ok, but the British version of Hamilton can easily be found in many of Charli Eglinton’s musicals. Many of them have a modern feel to them while digging into history and giving new perspective on them. They may only exist for public hearing as concept albums, but I love them all. Her historical musicals include: Fallen, Bound, and Saving Mozart. And yes, Six is another answer as well and the currently most fleshed out one. But look up Charli Eglinton, she has written some amazing musicals and concept albums.
For me it sounds very similar in theme to Martin Guerre, driven by the persecution of a religious group and the violent uprising of one against the other. I personally loved Martin Guerre in its original form and was blessed to have seen it during its original run and I’d be interested to see how Treason fares
I went Tuesday night, I loved it soo much and desperately want it to have a life past this I thought it was done brilliantly and the story was told soo well and the narrator well I loved debris Stevenson such a force I thought she helped the flow of the story perfectly
I love the show, I love listening to the music and I think it is a really interesting new show. But for me it still very much is in the workshop process and I don't at all see it as the final version yet.
Maybe I misinterpreted this, but it sounds like the women's song was saying "we didn't have a place in history so we wrote a letter to shut down the treason" rather than having an actually character-based motivation such as "I'm worried my beloved husband is making a deadly mistake"? That's...not a strong dramatic choice.
Big Spoilers to follow, as I was at the premiere of the staged version this week, and wanted to leave my thoughts somewhere public. The show has changed tremendously, so much that Act One is mostly unrecognisable in my opinion. Act Two is more recognisable. I’ve not seen the concerts, but I’ve been addicted to the Spotify releases (so may have a small bias, but try not to). And the changes are not a bad thing. It is about 2 hours long excluding interval. I’d say the show is a 4 star production overall, with act one being more 4 stars and act two being almost 5 stars outside the very start and end. I don’t know how many songs were in the concert but never released to Spotify (I know some weren’t released, like the barrels song, which is in the show still). But I would say about 70% of the songs were new, 20% were similar but altered versions of existing songs, and 10% copied from the concert. With Act 1 focusing on new songs and Act 2 having more existing songs. As a fan of the soundtrack, this really shocked me when it took 20+ minutes to even hear even part of a song I recognised, and much longer to hear a full song. A lot of returning songs which were previously repetitive have been drastically shortened. There are some songs that really should return though. I hope the opening/closing number from the concert comes back. Also add back the original, but a shorter, version of the Act One closing song with the female vocal sections added back (though rewritten for story reasons). As Far As I Can tell is another song I miss. And we REALLY need back the Queens death song. Surprisingly, they removed the Queen’s death song and they just have a time skip via dialogue. The song, which I had discovered the show via 2 years ago, and had dearly loved. I hope they add it back some day, as the time jump feels clunky, and it is a really interesting part of history to mention that it is debated in James really was meant to take the throne. And it sounds hard to stage, but after hours of thought I’ve mapped it out effectively in my head, and feel it could easily be slotted into the show. The costumes were great, outside the Act 2 opening. And the set was also pretty decent, though you could see all the lights and scaffolding any time they opened any of the many doors. And I was sat central row 6 of the stalls, a seat I would have thought would have had the set designed best for. A concern with the set which I have, is that anyone sat with a angled view would have missed most the stuff performed at the stages rear back, as they had walls move forward often, but still performed behind them (I’ve not written it well, but saw everything fine, but I expect many would have found the walls obscured the performance at the stages rear). There were some awkward pauses and set malfunctions (like a pole not fitting in a hole so it was removed off stage, or doors not shutting). It also started 15 minutes late, unless I missed an announcement. But I don’t think it’s fair to score the show on those as it was the opening show. All those small issues feel like they will improve in time. A LOT of changes have occurred since the concert, both to story and characters. The King is more cowardly I believe. He is more largely and naively under control of Cecil, rather than them being a comediac evil duo. The King is also kinda losing his sanity, to do with fear of Witches (blaming them for countries issues, like modern government blames migrants). There is an assault on Catholics in Act One, that causes Martha to lose her unborn child. And Thomas, who gets a new song to cement his tragic backstory, joins the plot after the child is lost. He is aggressively against the plot now, up until this point. After this, he joins the plot. And Act One still ends with the Blow song, but without any female vocals now and is much shorter. Kinda a weak song now. The narrator is now Guy Fawkes. He opens and closes the show by speaking to the audience. I felt his opening and closing scenes (which I recall were entirely just spoken, but may be mistaken), though brilliantly performed, are clunky parts of the show. He is also present on stage most of the time, just observing the scenes. He is no longer name dropped in a song (at least from what I heard, as there was some microphone issues), which is somewhat odd with him standing in the room with the plotters. Martha and Anne get amazing songs. Nicole is a fantastic performer; she should get awards for The Inevitable, which remains an amazing song. Martha now learns about the plot in the second Act, so The Inevitable is one of the last songs of the show rather than being in Act 1. And Caught in the Crossfire has been reworked to be early Act 2, and to make it wonderfully a confrontation song between Martha and Anne. It sees Anne oppose the plot, and Martha refuse to believe her husband is involved, and they fall out. Act Two also has a weird opening, that I don’t know if I even want to spoil. I believe it has a historical background, but it just felt a confusing inclusion, and the one time I thought the costumes (exclusive for the one scene) were a bit cheap looking. And the song was not memorable, I just remember my confusion and bored mess. It only impacted the kings story, but I believe it could be cut with little impact (especially for how long it took up in the show). As I’ve wrote all this, I’ve now clicked that the opening and closing moments of both acts are somewhat weak. They really need to work on those. But between the opening scene and closing scene of Act 2, there is little down time and the pacing is amazing. And there are back to back amazing songs, a lot of which were on the sound track compared to act 1. And the lighting and staging is much more creative in act 2. Which is why I still feel act 2 is more 5 stars than 4. Overall I had a great time watching the show. I believe there is a better version still to come, that can merge some songs and story points from the concert and current versions, to create the definitive Treason show. With it being a 4 week run of the show, I don’t believe this is even close to what is expected to be the final version, that could run on the West End if the producers desire to. I hope to see the show continue, improve and grow.
While rewatching your review, I want to note that the show was not very comedic. The Paper Please song is gone, and was never on Spotify so must have been cut soon after the concert. And the digging song is shorter I believe, and has just the 5 plotters signing now. And there is no dance, it’s just them digging and looking like they are struggling and questioning what they are doing, followed by one of them almost dying in a cave in.
The whole debate scene at the end is gone, seeing as the Crossfire song is moved to earlier in act 2. There is no group of women anymore. And the line about being forgotten is gone, though Martha still wrote a better to prevent her religion being blamed for the cause of deaths.
And the ensemble still does contemporary dance, but it feels suited to the scenes they selected to do it. And the ensemble usually are only there when a crowd is needed, rather sub joining the stage at random, and most the ensemble get to be a side character at some point.
On holiday from Canada, we saw the Monday show. We truthfully went as a way to see Carrie Hope Fletcher since Cinderella closed. I definitely agree with your assessment. The material needs more work. I kept waiting for Guy Fawkes to have any kind of moment as it’s his silhouette on the program and the stage projection. That being said, the music, aside from those uncertain endings, was very good and the cast was stellar. I thought the modern narrator and dance company was an interesting blend with the period characters and costumes. I would hope in a more fleshed out production that that could be used as a more effective storytelling device - the story learned in school vs the far more in-depth and potentially gut wrenching personal stories of the historical players. Curious to see where they go next with the production.
16:34 =It took me this long to realize that "Cecil" is Elizabeth I's "Pygmy"... The dude that brought in James I of Scotland as Elizabeth's Successor... William Cecil's son if I am not mistaken. W. Cecil is if I am not mistaken, the dude that began England's Spy 00 gig (Or rather formalized it) and E's favorite Secretary.. I forgot the exchange of planning E's successor behind her back is he gets to keep his Dad's seat under James' rule... Odd why he's comic relief in this play... Aside from his height, there's completely NOTHING funny 'bout him...
I really wanted to like the album but couldn’t get hooked on it, some of the lyrics were a bit clumsy and it just didn’t grip me or feel like something new
I haven't seen anything about the show, although I follow at least two of the performers on either twitter or Insta 😬. When you mentioned about have had lots of West End faces for all the workshops you weren't kidding. I could identify at least 6 of the performers from the curtain call footage! And I wonder if this sort of reinforces the whole Funny Girl saga with Lea Michele. If audiences see known and trusted performers (like Carrie) does it make them more inclined to go? And similarly does a somewhat more reserved British audience clap for Les Dennis because it's Les Dennis and it would be rude not to? Are they applauding the performer rather than the song? Having studied the Gunpowder Plot as part of my A Level studies I am more familiar than most with the details. Yes, there was a letter that ultimately caused the failure of the plot. However the author of that letter is still unknown. The most likely culprit was Francis Tresham who was one of the plotters, suspected by several of the other participants at the time and widely believed to be responsible in the view of historians. It was never confirmed. Interesting that Treason the Musical gives this part to the women - rather than the plotters being responsible for their own downfall the blame is shifted to the spouses (hardly a new troupe). But what is really odd to me though is that Thomas Percy was married to Martha, not Mary. No clue why they would change her name! And that isn't A level knowledge, that's Wikipedia level detail!
@@HelenRosemarySmith yeah, especially if there was the whole arc about women being left out of the narrative. Making them responsible for the failure is hardly doing them any favours! Seems more like the writers wanted a reason to have more women in the cast...
@@carriew5106 I don't fault them for wanting more women in the cast - that's a good thing! - but I'm not sure from this video if they thought through how what point they are maming with what the women say and do
OK, this has nothing to do with the video, but WOW MickeyJo looks GOOD! His facial hair looks great, skin is GLOWING, hair looks fantastic, the lil chest hair tease...GET IT! You look great and are rocking it!
Every song I've heard so far from this musical, which is everything on their Instagram, seems derivative of some other melody, song, or musical. Which is fair I think once in a while because that's how art works, but not when it's every song. Seems like great actors involved, but I think the writing is a bit juvenile, and I was really shocked and sad to feel that way as I was hoping for something great!
I'm so glad that you pointed out how the music feels more like exposition more than personal emotional journeys that work towards character and story arcs.
I saw it on Monday and agree completely. I just didn’t feel like it gelled together, nor did it build to any kind of crescendo. And although I get telling the story from a different perspective I thought it just seemed odd that Guy Fawkes didn’t have a line. It was just trying far too hard to be Hamilton and missed which made me sad.
I think the big question is if it had a completely different cast, would it still be as successful? Like you said, they need to workshop it more in order to sort it out & then gain traction with a stellar cast.
On the women's deliberation song and their letter 'exposing' their husbands, what did the wives think would become of them once their spouses were executed? As the widows of Catholic traitors, they'd hardly have fallen into 'good' marriages very quickly, would they? (Or perhaps they were so principled they were also willing to live a pauper's life [at best] thereafter?) Hmm!
a perhaps weird thing to the point about how the… for lack of a better term, the catholism of the show is underbaked, catholics (pretty famously) dont believe in predestination. so if martha percy’s singing a song in which she’s feeling lost and wondering if things are “inevitable,” i think that has a lot more weight in a story like this than maybe the writers intended. (especially since james i a type of protestant much closer to calvinism.) maybe im making too much of this - ive not seen the show - but just something that felt off in a show about staunch catholics.
What really bothered me about King James is that he is objectively Scottish as a historical figure. So that depiction really does irritate me from an accuracy point of view. And I know it’s not meant to be wholly accurate but if you say you’re going to present the history that people haven’t seen before, at least get the basics right. Also not sure how I feel about a historically confirmed queer monarch basically being made to seem like a sexual predator? That made me ill at ease
As an Aussie I think of King James as "the Scot who united with England" because of how his mum is known (for those who dont know, she is Mary, Queen of Scots)
Surely they should've made him Scottish? Especially as he'd only recently moved to London at the time of the gunpowder plot and his backtracking on promises to be more open to catholics was part of the reason why the plot happened ed when it did (from what I've read)
If someone wanted to make a “British take on Hamilton,” someone should write about “Bloody Mary,” or someone who isn’t put in a good light in history, not a specific event. For the Bloody Mary example, a writer could center their piece around just Mary, and what she thinks about everyone else. I feel like that’s what Hamilton did best; Miranda centered a historical character, “Alexander Hamilton,” and the events that just so happen to appear around HIS life, not JUST the actual event, if that makes sense.
Great review, always interesting to hear your thoughts! I saw it on Tuesday as well. I did enjoy it OK but completely agree with all your comments. I found the rhyming in the dialogue very clunky as well as the quote forced ‘women excluded from history’ parts, and that as well as the King as you said just seemed an inferior take on Hamilton to me. But some of the material was really beautiful and I hope they can tailor towards something that works more broadly.
I wanted to watch because subject matter seemed like an awesome starting point ad also because I was focusing on seeing new musicals this month. I was hoping for something dark and engaging. I was left disappointed, perhaps because not fully staged (I have never been to a musical theatre concert), but also did not meet my expectations. I felt they used the narrator as a tool to give the piece grit, but it did not link or seem to gel with everything else, so disjointed. Overall felt I was being manipulated in various ways to like it by the use of various tropes, stereotypes and styles. i.e. paperwork, I agreed that it was an unnecessary song just to shoe in comedy. I don't know jekyl and hyde, but for me your analysis made sense, the comedy being dark, like 'a little priest ' in sweeney for example. Trying to get a reaction by mentioning our modern situation re prime minister is cheap. Other way it felt formulaic was the King character, carbon copy of hamilton and for no reason really. I took issue with it being marketed as such in promos and social media by cast etc, because I think it should try and stand alone, you can't be hamilton and that is fine. I was in the balcony, so couldn't see any projections, so maybe they give more context. Great singers, like Jaden, Rhoden and some good songs that I enjoyed. I expect that more context would be given with a book/script as it felt like there were gaps that needed context. Re you choreo comment, I think it felt like it was used to beef up the fact it was a concert, so maybe it isn't the proposed end goal choreographically. I would still want to see it if fully staged to see what is added with the full works, but I expected more
Only thought on the review is thinking that the spiritual crisis in “inevitable” is out of keeping with Matha’s motivations. Staunch Catholics often have those issues and even more so in an event like this and more realistic than just all being certain. I loved the show but agree it was a bit too much of everything to do what it wants perfectly. That said i’ll still go and see it staged, the cast were outstanding. But certainly doesn’t feel quite finished. But that’s ok
I believe that the plotters were caught because of a letter of warning that was written to a member of parliament. That may be why they got the women to write that letter instead of one of the men.
I saw the show, and it was kinda like I’d seen it before. Didn’t feel all that original in terms of story or delivery. The music was beautiful, I loved the melodies, and the performances were phenomenal. But I left feeling.. meh, like that’s it? What even happened? It wasn’t a compelling nor well told story
I loved this Treason concert and there are some great songs in it. You are absolutely right about the need for more of a button on some of the songs particularly in the second half. It's also a good point about exploring emotions more and threading the narrator through a bit more. I think it definitely has a future and would love to see it fully developed. Those songs are too good to disappear.
The only thing that “Treason” has in common with “Hamilton” is that it’s History (in the narrow sense that contemporary generations know anything about History… other than Period Costumes and dismissing it as Marx advocated in this Manifesto as “irrelevant”) “Hamilton” which is really an incoherent series of episodes taken from the Biography - stitched together by rap music - is NEVERTHELESS set against the backdrop of the America Revolution… the 1st and only Revolution set down in a Declaration of Individual Rights to which “any form of government” is subordinate (that Marxist dismiss by playing the race card as if slavery was unique to that time and only based on race… but that’s why Marxist don’t want to discuss actual History) “Treason?” The Catholic “justified” gun powder plot was just another moment in a hundred years of plots to commit genocide based on a “labeling” of Christianity that really was just the remnants of the English Civil War… and it sounds like this musical won’t even capture that much! Trust me, a hundred years from now IF people go back to listen to musicals for anything more than pastiche… “1776” has as far greater Story with far more fascinating Characterizations of our Forefathers than “Hamilton” title character being a prig adulterer who died in a duel because he was a fool to believe Burr wouldn’t shoot! Aside from setting the show to rap… seriously WHAT is it all about but “snippets from the book” (that is far more interesting as it covers Hamilton’s plans for EMPIRE!) Face it, this one authentic recorded exchange between Hamilton and President Adams was more insightful than ANYTHING that happens in the musical! th-cam.com/video/KaWBs46USqE/w-d-xo.html
I have heard nothing of this show in the US, but your review made me cackle out loud. Perfectly nerdy and witty. I don’t have time to look up treasonous either, but it is most certainly a word - Americans get accused of it a lot, lol.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | เปิดใจ "อาจารย์ เบียร์ ฅนตื่นธรรม" นักสนทนาธรรมสายดุดัน!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vqaBI_mnoDk/mqdefault.jpg)
![ILLSLICK - THE KING'S LANDING [Freestyle]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/feIJJnNkTfk/mqdefault.jpg)
The British answer to Hamilton is Six. Looking at historical figures from a different lens,talking about political and social commentary that are relevant for today, the diverse cast and amazing fun music.
six is more a consert in my opinion
Six is barely a musical. It's the spice girls with a Henry the 8th themed night.
I kind of hate the argument that because of the way Six is structured that it isn’t a musical. A Chorus LIne is structured in pretty much the exact same way and it is regarded as one of the defining entries into the American theatre canon and recognised as such with its many Tony wins and Pulitzer Prize for Drama. See also: Assassins, Ride The Cyclone, Cats, etc. Revues and musicals with revue-like structures are a valid form of musical theatre, and anyone who says otherwise probably doesn’t know that much about theatre.
I agree, it's history on stage...
Six does disrespect the actual women in some cases though, sometimes by agreeing with the lies Henry spread about them and presenting them in ways they were not. I enjoy the music and the show but I wish people would stop acting like they understand the history because they watched it.
I just get a bit bored of people always trying to find ‘the next hamilton’, hamilton was so good because it was new and fresh and not really done before, so to have the hamilton success you’d have to come up with an original idea, I think I’d be far less critical of new shows if they just existed independently of hamilton
The New Hamilton is six
Shamilton was AWFUL; a real RIP-OFF!!
when you have Bradley Jaden you know you're in a treat for both eyes and ears
As someone from the US, I sort of saw Six as the British answer to Hamilton (y'all made the Spice Girls after all). Interested to hear about this one though!
I mostly went to see Carrie and didn't know much about the show. I did enjoy it and I loved the folk twist to much of the music. Having said that, I agree with most of your review (I loved Paperwork!). It certainly needs a great deal of time in workshop to fully bring the audience on board and have empathy for the characters. You're so right about the ends of the songs not being clear. There were at least two songs on Monday when the audience did the dreaded thing of starting to clap but the song wasn't finished. Nothing makes an audience more nervous about applauding than that so it did mean a few awkward silences where there should have been applause.
Hearing you talk about repetitive lyrics had me giggling remembering that in Godspell their is an entire song where the ONLY lyric is "Prepare Ye The Way of the Lord"
Yes! I’ve been waiting so long to hear your thoughts on this!
“I would love for there to be a script” pretty much says it all.
I feel like the issue with gaining sympathy is wild, because it feels so simple from a thematic point. I can imagine a single song that uses the creation and lighting of gunpowder as an analogy working simply. A slowly ramping group number that describes the persuasion and how it relates to the creation of this explosion. It builds with snippets of stories of repression and bigotry reaching a fever pitch and eventually breaking into a moment of still. A single moment of injustice described in still detail, the spark. BOOM the song ripples into a scream for justice. Justice in the only way that’s fair, retaliation! Four minutes, you could get the audience hyped up and foaming at the mouth for vengeance in four minutes.
I was just as the premiere of the actual stage musical tonight!!!
What was it like?!
You said literally everything I was thinking during the show, just much better articulated than I could ever get across
I saw Treason and I actually LOVED it! Carrie was brilliant and so was the whole rest of the cast Bradley Jayden etc... - I cried during 'Inevitable' full on sobbing - The music was brilliant but sometimes the aims were weird (Like the handing over of the flat from the Earl to Percy - was it his treason?????) However I did still really enjoy it.
I completely agree with all of the points!
I looked at the costumes in that clip and went "oh, you didn't have to do that..." I gotta say Aaron Burr being the narrator in Hamilton is pretty predictible - Judas in JCS, Che in Evita... The story telling reminds me of Notre Dame de Paris - at least in English - you're expected to already have a good grasp of the plot because the show isn't telling you! It's a very difficult story to pitch, sympathetic telling of a terrorist plot... sounds like they got a lot of workshopping still to go.
Thanks for making such interesting content! Being from Switzerland and not being able to see most of the musical productions live, watching your videos makes me feel like being a little closer to the stagey world 😍☺️🥳
I saw the show on Tuesday too and agree wholeheartedly with this. One of my main problems personally was that the songs all felt so BIG that by the time we got to the second act, the 11 o’clock numbers (of which there seemed to be multiple) had so little impact on me, because there was no musical progression to that point. Individually, the songs sounded beautiful, especially with the stellar cast turning out incredible vocals and the incredible orchestra at the concert. As a whole, however, it felt almost one-note. Carrie sounded beautiful but by the time her last solo rolled around my immediate thought was “ah, they’re wheeling her out for yet another sad sounding song”.
I felt that the music lacked diversity or balance - save for the King and Cecil’s songs which sounded jarringly out of place. I just wish that there were more lively, uptempo or even subtler, quieter pieces in between the big numbers. It had me feeling bored - something I rarely experience in a theatre. I really feel like there’s potential here but boy, it needs so much work before I’d ever dream of wanting to sit through it again.
How come this is the first time I’m seeing you on TH-cam?? I love ur Channel already!
I don't know whether either of the writers have a Catholic background, but I'd tend to think they don't as it would help to explain why the Catholicism side of the show wasn't really fleshed out at all - you're absolutely right about it needing something to help with that. Plus all of Martha's songs started to blend together for me, she was *such* a downer. I can't express it any more eloquently than that!
I was also at the Tuesday night performance and everything you say is accurate. Frustrated about the king (who is historically known to have preferred the company of men) to have been written so camp, but fabulous performance. Also loved the inclusion of current topic of lack of priminister. They need to take the feedback from people like yourself and other reviewers and go and workshop it more. They have the makings of something good. One idea I had was rather than 1 narrator, they should split that role into 2 people basically discussing the plot and how it came about.
I did like that guy fawkes was but a footnote, he's the one historically we all know but no one really understands who else was involved, for that element I applaud them.
I think it has the makings of something amazing and dam the vocals from Bradley and Carrie were just delicious. Worth it just to see them sing those songs. Favourite songs were the Day Elizabeth died, take things into our own hands and inevitable, but you can tell they are designed to be crowd pleasers
Also just want to add the dam guy fawkes hat. I was having heart palpations waiting for someone to move it, kick it or trip over it
Yes, treasonous is a word. (someone who is involved in or is guilty of the betrayal of someone or something)
I went to the show last night (Tuesday) and really enjoyed it. CHF singing The Inevitable was brilliant and if you can overlook the obvious 'king' comparison to Hamilton, King James was funny and a great addition. I'm just a random bloke who enjoys theatre / musicals so am not really qualified in any way to critique the details, but I think you've put together there some really constructive, valuable and informative thoughts on how to move the show forward. I appreciate that, especially in a world where 'extremes' is seemingly the way many go to get clicks and views. Keep up the good work.
I’ve been waiting so long for this. I remember the lock down show they did back in 2020??? Or 2021 not sure. I remember thinking it was a mess that needs a ton of work but I could see a lot of potential
(I hope they got rid of the “Blow” song, if you know you know)
To be fair Guy Faulkes was never central to the gunpowder plot, he’s the hired gun for want of a better expression.
Les Dennis played Robert Cecil? WTF? Robert Cecil was under five feet tall and had scoliosis of the spine. As was about as much of a basis for a comedy character as Javert in Les Mis.
They could’ve had Robert Cecil as the narrator in Treason, and had a disabled man front and centre. (God knows theatre needs more of them)
Also, an English King James? Really?
Oh yeah such a good point; King James was already king of Scotland and had only just moved down... definitely wouldn't be English
Thank you Mickey-Jo for another brilliant review! Please could you review To kill a Mockingbird at the Gielgud? I thought it was a 4 star show but would love to hear your thoughts!
Also, for Catholics being persecuted, it's a SHAME the show didn't focus on that, because yeah, Queen Elizabeth brutally executed 130 priests, tortured many Catholic priests, and tried to force the Irish to become protestants with threats and forcing them out of their own land. That's so sad they didn't focus on that!!!
I can understand why they didn't focus on that too much, it's a risk to highlight something with potential for drawing controversy. Even in school I remember there being arguments regarding which was worse, Mary 1st burning protestants alive as heretics or Elizabeth I hanging Catholics. Seems simpler to stick with a message of extremism in all its forms is a bad idea.
But look at how her sister, Queen bloody Mary Tudor treated protestants who wouldnt convert to catholicism.....or their dad. Messy time to be religious
I found this musical searching on Spotify two years ago, and I was obsessed with take things into our own hands. I’ve been following it since, and I do think it’s great. I hope it makes it to the west end
I love your opinions. They remind me of everything I believe in, in musicals productions and reminded me of what I don't like and why -- I say this, because I feel recently I've gotten into a habit of only saying what was nice about shows and also lose the words to describe and analyise what I didn't like and why. Thank you, Mickey Jo! xxxx P.S: Yes, "treasonous" is a word. :)
I heard that line too! I also felt that the repeated motif of catesby losing his way and becoming dangerous because he lost his wife and percy becoming a respectable good man since he met his wife completely undermines the women into a good little wife role
Well, contrary to very recent decades, that's what married women were perceived to be in the 17th (as well as every other) century, wrong though that might have been.
Combined with what Mickey just said in the video about the plot point with the women, that's quite disappointing
Yeah! They were clearly trying to give the women agency in a story where they're a side note at best and ended up undermining them further
@@Frx0289 hopefully this isn't the final version of the show and they'll work on that aspect
I went on Tuesday Night cannot deny i am a massive Bradley Jaden fan and would see any production that he is involved in because you know that no matter what he is going to give it 150% and he did! I agree with all of your observations of the show and agree it needs some more work but suppose putting it on for 2 dates and getting the feedback / reviews gives them the opportunity to do that. I enjoyed having the injection of some humour in it as i do with Les Mis you need some light and shade. The thing i loved the most was the Chemistry between Carrie and Bradley who led the cast well. I think Carrie had some fab songs and i cried at Inevitable. Would i see it again? Yes if Bradley was in it for sure, and what a wonderful venue it was forgot hw lovely the Theatre Royal was as my last visit to this theatre was the closing night of Miss Saigon! MickeyJo Loved your honest review and agree Bradley might well be great in Jeckyl and Hyde another one i have seen many years ago, just hope he goes on to something great when his time is up in Les Mis shortly with a role that befits his talent!!
Did they just get the history wrong? As a story the gunpowder plot is so interesting, the echos of today where an unpopular leader uses a terrorist action to incite patriotic fervour , and then the scapegoat goes down in history as a bumbling idiot based purely on PR.
Having some of the women being the mothers of the conspirators would be better, an age old generational conflict, and the loss of faith song ‘inevitable’would make more sense. A duet between the older wiser women who had lost family during Henry, Edward and Elizabeth’s reign rallying against the Younger wife naively supporting her husband in a discussion about the meaning of blind faith, sacrifice and what that really meant, similar to ‘I know him so well’ from chess. The mother and the wife both spotlighted with the man in the centre, finally choosing his wife and exiting the stage whilst his mother lies broken alone sobbing, knowing her sons are going to certain death and throwing away her rosary in despair.
Re: the repetitive ideas/words
That is how iv felt with "Written in the Stars" and much of the ALW Cinderella score. It drives me crazy. (No disrespect to the performances of those pieces.)
i completely agree with your assessment, MickeyJo! I went to see Treason on Monday. I absolutely loved the composition and the performances, but the plot, text and pacing seemed a bit half-baked. That's kind of what made me think that there was supposed to be scripted bits that they didn't perform?! I really hope that they take critics' feedback and workshop the show some more to make it its own, as I think it has potential!
I saw Treason on Monday and I agree with everything you said, it felt like it was trying to be too many things for me. Lots of it was a bit jarring, it needed to be a lot darker aesthetically for me. But the music... I love it. Granted there are a few songs that are repetitive as you say, but songs like The Day Elizabeth died, Blind Faith, Take things into our own hands, Inevitable... I loved them and they've been stuck in my head for days. I like the beautiful folk music sound some of these songs have, they're really beautiful. I feel like this show has so much potentially musically but just needs a lot more work to figure out what its trying to be.
It really does sound as though a good 'book' and associated recitative need to be developed pdq to string together what appear to be, mainly, very good musical pieces. Othwerwise, sadly, not everyone in a potential audience would be sufficiently familiar with the details behind the Gunpowder Plot and its protagonists to fully appreciate the storyline.
Thank you for such a thoughtful review - far more articulate than I could be at 1.00am!
On the topic of Les Mis, I recently saw the new production in the West End, and would be really interested to hear your thoughts on it. I’ve loved the musical since I was in primary school, but I was very diasppointed by the changes, especially the increased violence, particulalry towards female characters. I feel that Fantine's pain for example, is so powerfully conveyed through the music that it isn't necessary for us to see her assaulted. I was similarly disturbed by graphic depictions of violence towards women on stage in Scottish Ballet's The Crucible, and I worry that eventually audiences will no longer be shocked by these scenes.
The new staging of Les Mis is not great at all. It’s too fast. It’s too edited. It’s too over sung. It is too violent towards woman, in parts. The clothing is too colorful. The staging seems too cluttered. The One Day More student march is too high school choreographed to the point that it’s amusing. And my biggest pet peeve is the electric lamps that hang over the women’s work table in the At The End Of The Day number. There were no electric lamps in 1823 France.
Since the 80’s, I’ve seen Les Mis 30+ times and the original staging , costumes and unedited score/ lyrics are unparalleled. I saw this new staging when it original toured as the 25th anniversary production and when I heard that they were going to replace the original London stage with this inferior staging, I high tailed it to London to see the original staging one last time for I knew I would never go and see Les Mis in this new form ever again.
I don't think I'd return to see this production either, and I'm sad I didn’t get a chance to see the original for a last time before it closed.
I tried to be open-minded seeing the new staging, but I found all the changes you mentioned really jarring. I did like the curtain inspired by Hugo's paintings though, and I'm glad I'll still always have his beautiful novel to go back to, and my symphonic recording on CD!
@@rachelj2795… Yes! Hugo’s artwork was cool, but, yeah, it’s my favorite musical of all time and I’m not thrilled with the changes! Like you, I’m going to stick to listening to the original London cast and the original Paris cast and try to hold on to my memories of the past productions I’ve seen.
@@bookemdano7567 I completely understand. The original production has played such a big part in my life, and it feels really sad that I won't see it again. It was reassuring knowing that it was always there and would always be the same perfect show that I had fallen in love with as a child, and that has brought me so much inspiration, hope and comfort over the years. I feel very grateful to have had so many opportunities to see it though, and am sure we will never forget how special it was.
@@rachelj2795 ❤️❤️❤️
As someone from the NY, I was looking forward to your review as I can't see the show. I only know (but love) the 7 or so songs that were recorded. Honestly, I am so surprised by the direction the show took. I did not realize that Martha Percy was the focus. I had thought it focused more on the plotters with Robert Catseby being the lead. Having seen the Kit Harrington show Gunpowder, this seemed logical, especially with how Take the Whole Ship Down is layered. I think Martha and Anne Vaux could have acted as great foils to the radicalization of the plotters as devout people who went another way. I also agree that Martha writing the letter in hopes to save Thomas sounds a lot better than what they ended up doing. Thanks so much for the review!
What night did you go to? I went to the last night.. I loved it but thought it ended rather abruptly.. for such a gorgeous hair raising build up, they fought and died (not that it was obvious how) in 1 song.. I wanted more! But the songs are fabulous, honestly absolute ear worms and the cast were absolute chef’s kiss and I was the second row right from the back so if I felt the emotion from there, wow.. they nailed it
your video has chilled me out about my gcse results tomorrow ❤️
I saw treason on Tuesday and I loved it. The music was great and the characters were great too. I do hope it becomes a full west end production. I do agree that they should work on it a little more add more script to it but all though was a great experience I had with my mum. X
kind of off topic, but also kind of on. would you be willing to settle a debate for me. could you do a video that covers what 1776 A New Musical's 11o'clock number is, I would say it is 'Molasses To Rum' where as others say it is 'Is Anybody There' in the video could you give a why / why not for each.
The plotters met at Triangular Lodge which is about 2.5 miles from me
It's absolutely tiny and claustrophobic, but you get a sense of the extent they had to go to be able to practice their religion
19:56 it may seem like a dumb idea. But, that is exactly how the gun powder plot was discovered a letter was sent to a Catholic member of Parliament telling them that an attempt would be made on the kings life and they showed it to the monarchy and that’s when Fawkes was discovered. Also, the barrels of gunpowder where transported 14:22
The only thing debatable is who sent the letter as it was anonymous.
These are very well explained thoughts, I really appreciate that your reviews are always so constructive. A great video as always :)
The questioning of the existence of God is very relevant to modern Catholics. Yes, alot of Catholics are still VERY strict believers (my father was as is most of his family) but many MANY Catholics today are agnostic (my mother is an agnostic-catholic). A lot of "us" (I've yet to be excommunicated but I'm an ex-catholic/athiest/Satanist) are Catholic in the sense of it being just something our families do rather than having any belief at all.
I wonder if that "bringing history and mondern day together" thing Hamilton (and some other successful shows have done with historical mythology like Hadestown and Jesus Christ Superstar) have done.
Based on what you've said about the character questioning if God is real and the picture in the thumbnail I don't think it was likely done well though.
Treason came to me in a weird part of my life, and maybe that's why it resonates with me so loudly. I first heard "Take Things into Our Own Hands" after it was leaked that the US Supreme Court was going to revoke Roe v. Wade (which they later did), and the musical felt like the only thing that truly recognized the pain and hopelessness I was feeling for having the government decide that your group suddenly has no bodily autonomy.
I agree that the show would benefit from having more songs that highlight the character's emotions (other than Martha Percy). I think this show hits so hard for me without that is because I'm personally able to fill in the emotional gaps with my own experience being a persecuted minority in the US (for context, I'm a non-binary person with a uterus who also belongs to a religious minority). I think it'd be fantastic if they had key songs with Robert Catesby where his ability to manipulate these groups of furious Catholics is showcased (especially if they threw in cherry-picked scripture), but I can understand that they likely didn't lean into the religious aspect of the Gunpowder Plot because they didn't want to ostracize non-Catholics from connecting to the story.
The vagueness of it all makes sense to me if you're looking at this from the perspective of Martha Percy exclusively. She doesn't know much about the plot or her husband's involvement, but she can see how it's changing the community around her. I think this is a beautiful story about how easy it is to radicalize average people who are in anguish for the right reasons. And through Martha, we see how easily a good message can be lost in hate, spite, and misplaced righteousness. As the US government cracks down on legislation against the queer community and loosens it for guns, I can see how it's changing my community. The resentment and fury is boiling, and it WILL explode.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I like the show, and it feels deeply personal to me. (BTW today is Yom HaShoah; never forget)
Ohmygod hey!:D
Thanks for this Mickey; I've been waiting for this since 2020 when I saw Hadley Fraser singing 'Take this into our own hands'! I am upset that the show didn't dive into the emotional side of the show. THey should have told the story a bit like the BBC series Gunpowder starring Kit Harrington.
I can’t wait until ‘Inevitable’ to be a MT female cabaret staple
Loved hearing your thoughts on this and came to similar points and think your right about next steps. Hope they take peoples thoughts onboard.
This was an amazingly true review of this show. I found it was very similar to Jesus Christ Superstar with James I songs. Best thing for me were the orchestrations and some of the harmonies. it will need far more characterisations and more of the plot itself to really make it work.
Are you going to review the bath Into the woods? I saw it last week and would love to know your thoughts
Ok, but the British version of Hamilton can easily be found in many of Charli Eglinton’s musicals. Many of them have a modern feel to them while digging into history and giving new perspective on them. They may only exist for public hearing as concept albums, but I love them all. Her historical musicals include: Fallen, Bound, and Saving Mozart. And yes, Six is another answer as well and the currently most fleshed out one. But look up Charli Eglinton, she has written some amazing musicals and concept albums.
For me it sounds very similar in theme to Martin Guerre, driven by the persecution of a religious group and the violent uprising of one against the other. I personally loved Martin Guerre in its original form and was blessed to have seen it during its original run and I’d be interested to see how Treason fares
So agreed - didnt they f**k it up changing it from the first previews. The National tour was a different show.
I went Tuesday night, I loved it soo much and desperately want it to have a life past this I thought it was done brilliantly and the story was told soo well and the narrator well I loved debris Stevenson such a force I thought she helped the flow of the story perfectly
I love the show, I love listening to the music and I think it is a really interesting new show. But for me it still very much is in the workshop process and I don't at all see it as the final version yet.
wow you are quick!
Will you be watching NYMT's Ragtime which is on at MCT at Alleyns Thursday 25th - Saturday 27th August?
Oh my gosh PLEASE review the clockmakers daughter because it's literally the most amazing musical ever!
Maybe I misinterpreted this, but it sounds like the women's song was saying "we didn't have a place in history so we wrote a letter to shut down the treason" rather than having an actually character-based motivation such as "I'm worried my beloved husband is making a deadly mistake"? That's...not a strong dramatic choice.
Big Spoilers to follow, as I was at the premiere of the staged version this week, and wanted to leave my thoughts somewhere public. The show has changed tremendously, so much that Act One is mostly unrecognisable in my opinion. Act Two is more recognisable.
I’ve not seen the concerts, but I’ve been addicted to the Spotify releases (so may have a small bias, but try not to). And the changes are not a bad thing. It is about 2 hours long excluding interval. I’d say the show is a 4 star production overall, with act one being more 4 stars and act two being almost 5 stars outside the very start and end.
I don’t know how many songs were in the concert but never released to Spotify (I know some weren’t released, like the barrels song, which is in the show still). But I would say about 70% of the songs were new, 20% were similar but altered versions of existing songs, and 10% copied from the concert. With Act 1 focusing on new songs and Act 2 having more existing songs. As a fan of the soundtrack, this really shocked me when it took 20+ minutes to even hear even part of a song I recognised, and much longer to hear a full song. A lot of returning songs which were previously repetitive have been drastically shortened.
There are some songs that really should return though. I hope the opening/closing number from the concert comes back. Also add back the original, but a shorter, version of the Act One closing song with the female vocal sections added back (though rewritten for story reasons). As Far As I Can tell is another song I miss. And we REALLY need back the Queens death song.
Surprisingly, they removed the Queen’s death song and they just have a time skip via dialogue. The song, which I had discovered the show via 2 years ago, and had dearly loved. I hope they add it back some day, as the time jump feels clunky, and it is a really interesting part of history to mention that it is debated in James really was meant to take the throne. And it sounds hard to stage, but after hours of thought I’ve mapped it out effectively in my head, and feel it could easily be slotted into the show.
The costumes were great, outside the Act 2 opening. And the set was also pretty decent, though you could see all the lights and scaffolding any time they opened any of the many doors. And I was sat central row 6 of the stalls, a seat I would have thought would have had the set designed best for.
A concern with the set which I have, is that anyone sat with a angled view would have missed most the stuff performed at the stages rear back, as they had walls move forward often, but still performed behind them (I’ve not written it well, but saw everything fine, but I expect many would have found the walls obscured the performance at the stages rear).
There were some awkward pauses and set malfunctions (like a pole not fitting in a hole so it was removed off stage, or doors not shutting). It also started 15 minutes late, unless I missed an announcement. But I don’t think it’s fair to score the show on those as it was the opening show. All those small issues feel like they will improve in time.
A LOT of changes have occurred since the concert, both to story and characters.
The King is more cowardly I believe. He is more largely and naively under control of Cecil, rather than them being a comediac evil duo. The King is also kinda losing his sanity, to do with fear of Witches (blaming them for countries issues, like modern government blames migrants).
There is an assault on Catholics in Act One, that causes Martha to lose her unborn child. And Thomas, who gets a new song to cement his tragic backstory, joins the plot after the child is lost. He is aggressively against the plot now, up until this point. After this, he joins the plot. And Act One still ends with the Blow song, but without any female vocals now and is much shorter. Kinda a weak song now.
The narrator is now Guy Fawkes. He opens and closes the show by speaking to the audience. I felt his opening and closing scenes (which I recall were entirely just spoken, but may be mistaken), though brilliantly performed, are clunky parts of the show. He is also present on stage most of the time, just observing the scenes. He is no longer name dropped in a song (at least from what I heard, as there was some microphone issues), which is somewhat odd with him standing in the room with the plotters.
Martha and Anne get amazing songs. Nicole is a fantastic performer; she should get awards for The Inevitable, which remains an amazing song. Martha now learns about the plot in the second Act, so The Inevitable is one of the last songs of the show rather than being in Act 1. And Caught in the Crossfire has been reworked to be early Act 2, and to make it wonderfully a confrontation song between Martha and Anne. It sees Anne oppose the plot, and Martha refuse to believe her husband is involved, and they fall out.
Act Two also has a weird opening, that I don’t know if I even want to spoil. I believe it has a historical background, but it just felt a confusing inclusion, and the one time I thought the costumes (exclusive for the one scene) were a bit cheap looking. And the song was not memorable, I just remember my confusion and bored mess. It only impacted the kings story, but I believe it could be cut with little impact (especially for how long it took up in the show).
As I’ve wrote all this, I’ve now clicked that the opening and closing moments of both acts are somewhat weak. They really need to work on those. But between the opening scene and closing scene of Act 2, there is little down time and the pacing is amazing. And there are back to back amazing songs, a lot of which were on the sound track compared to act 1. And the lighting and staging is much more creative in act 2. Which is why I still feel act 2 is more 5 stars than 4.
Overall I had a great time watching the show. I believe there is a better version still to come, that can merge some songs and story points from the concert and current versions, to create the definitive Treason show. With it being a 4 week run of the show, I don’t believe this is even close to what is expected to be the final version, that could run on the West End if the producers desire to. I hope to see the show continue, improve and grow.
While rewatching your review, I want to note that the show was not very comedic. The Paper Please song is gone, and was never on Spotify so must have been cut soon after the concert.
And the digging song is shorter I believe, and has just the 5 plotters signing now. And there is no dance, it’s just them digging and looking like they are struggling and questioning what they are doing, followed by one of them almost dying in a cave in.
The whole debate scene at the end is gone, seeing as the Crossfire song is moved to earlier in act 2. There is no group of women anymore. And the line about being forgotten is gone, though Martha still wrote a better to prevent her religion being blamed for the cause of deaths.
And the ensemble still does contemporary dance, but it feels suited to the scenes they selected to do it. And the ensemble usually are only there when a crowd is needed, rather sub joining the stage at random, and most the ensemble get to be a side character at some point.
On holiday from Canada, we saw the Monday show. We truthfully went as a way to see Carrie Hope Fletcher since Cinderella closed. I definitely agree with your assessment. The material needs more work. I kept waiting for Guy Fawkes to have any kind of moment as it’s his silhouette on the program and the stage projection. That being said, the music, aside from those uncertain endings, was very good and the cast was stellar. I thought the modern narrator and dance company was an interesting blend with the period characters and costumes. I would hope in a more fleshed out production that that could be used as a more effective storytelling device - the story learned in school vs the far more in-depth and potentially gut wrenching personal stories of the historical players. Curious to see where they go next with the production.
Super thanks. I love your videos.
I know nothing about this, but I saw a video with Hadley Fraser and I’ve been intriguer ever since.
I shall look it up
16:34 =It took me this long to realize that "Cecil" is Elizabeth I's "Pygmy"... The dude that brought in James I of Scotland as Elizabeth's Successor... William Cecil's son if I am not mistaken. W. Cecil is if I am not mistaken, the dude that began England's Spy 00 gig (Or rather formalized it) and E's favorite Secretary.. I forgot the exchange of planning E's successor behind her back is he gets to keep his Dad's seat under James' rule... Odd why he's comic relief in this play... Aside from his height, there's completely NOTHING funny 'bout him...
I studied the Stuarts for A level history so I'm curious how accurate this is because I am a dork
I really wanted to like the album but couldn’t get hooked on it, some of the lyrics were a bit clumsy and it just didn’t grip me or feel like something new
I haven't seen anything about the show, although I follow at least two of the performers on either twitter or Insta 😬. When you mentioned about have had lots of West End faces for all the workshops you weren't kidding. I could identify at least 6 of the performers from the curtain call footage! And I wonder if this sort of reinforces the whole Funny Girl saga with Lea Michele. If audiences see known and trusted performers (like Carrie) does it make them more inclined to go? And similarly does a somewhat more reserved British audience clap for Les Dennis because it's Les Dennis and it would be rude not to? Are they applauding the performer rather than the song?
Having studied the Gunpowder Plot as part of my A Level studies I am more familiar than most with the details. Yes, there was a letter that ultimately caused the failure of the plot. However the author of that letter is still unknown. The most likely culprit was Francis Tresham who was one of the plotters, suspected by several of the other participants at the time and widely believed to be responsible in the view of historians. It was never confirmed. Interesting that Treason the Musical gives this part to the women - rather than the plotters being responsible for their own downfall the blame is shifted to the spouses (hardly a new troupe). But what is really odd to me though is that Thomas Percy was married to Martha, not Mary. No clue why they would change her name! And that isn't A level knowledge, that's Wikipedia level detail!
I saw last night - she is definitely still called Martha Percy! Agreed would be odd to change.
@@poppynobes4943 phew. Thought it would be a really unnecessary change!
It seems a really odd choice to me to shift the downfall of the plot to the women, especially in the way Mickey describes how they did it
@@HelenRosemarySmith yeah, especially if there was the whole arc about women being left out of the narrative. Making them responsible for the failure is hardly doing them any favours! Seems more like the writers wanted a reason to have more women in the cast...
@@carriew5106 I don't fault them for wanting more women in the cast - that's a good thing! - but I'm not sure from this video if they thought through how what point they are maming with what the women say and do
19:45
“The titanic is sinking and there writing a strongly worded letter to the iceberg!”
-Michael, the good place
OK, this has nothing to do with the video, but WOW MickeyJo looks GOOD! His facial hair looks great, skin is GLOWING, hair looks fantastic, the lil chest hair tease...GET IT! You look great and are rocking it!
I agree it was 3 stars for the material. Fair review
Every song I've heard so far from this musical, which is everything on their Instagram, seems derivative of some other melody, song, or musical. Which is fair I think once in a while because that's how art works, but not when it's every song. Seems like great actors involved, but I think the writing is a bit juvenile, and I was really shocked and sad to feel that way as I was hoping for something great!
I'm so glad that you pointed out how the music feels more like exposition more than personal emotional journeys that work towards character and story arcs.
You can steal my points anyday, Mickey 😂❤
I saw it on Monday and agree completely. I just didn’t feel like it gelled together, nor did it build to any kind of crescendo. And although I get telling the story from a different perspective I thought it just seemed odd that Guy Fawkes didn’t have a line. It was just trying far too hard to be Hamilton and missed which made me sad.
I think the big question is if it had a completely different cast, would it still be as successful? Like you said, they need to workshop it more in order to sort it out & then gain traction with a stellar cast.
'Would like to see more of Daniel Boys in future WE productions. (No pun intended, btw!)
I’ve listened to the cast recording and really wanted to enjoy the show but still don’t feel it really works. Your review underlines my doubts
On the women's deliberation song and their letter 'exposing' their husbands, what did the wives think would become of them once their spouses were executed? As the widows of Catholic traitors, they'd hardly have fallen into 'good' marriages very quickly, would they? (Or perhaps they were so principled they were also willing to live a pauper's life [at best] thereafter?) Hmm!
Treasonous is a word! 😄
a perhaps weird thing to the point about how the… for lack of a better term, the catholism of the show is underbaked, catholics (pretty famously) dont believe in predestination. so if martha percy’s singing a song in which she’s feeling lost and wondering if things are “inevitable,” i think that has a lot more weight in a story like this than maybe the writers intended. (especially since james i a type of protestant much closer to calvinism.) maybe im making too much of this - ive not seen the show - but just something that felt off in a show about staunch catholics.
Thanks
Kinky boots was amazing 🤩
Was on the fence about going to treason
You would be the most incredible Dramaturg.
Usually calling Work X the next Work Y is doing a disservice to both of them.
What really bothered me about King James is that he is objectively Scottish as a historical figure. So that depiction really does irritate me from an accuracy point of view. And I know it’s not meant to be wholly accurate but if you say you’re going to present the history that people haven’t seen before, at least get the basics right. Also not sure how I feel about a historically confirmed queer monarch basically being made to seem like a sexual predator? That made me ill at ease
As an Aussie I think of King James as "the Scot who united with England" because of how his mum is known (for those who dont know, she is Mary, Queen of Scots)
Surely they should've made him Scottish? Especially as he'd only recently moved to London at the time of the gunpowder plot and his backtracking on promises to be more open to catholics was part of the reason why the plot happened ed when it did (from what I've read)
@@HelenRosemarySmith absolutely. But they clearly went down the route of a Hamilton knock off instead
If someone wanted to make a “British take on Hamilton,” someone should write about “Bloody Mary,” or someone who isn’t put in a good light in history, not a specific event. For the Bloody Mary example, a writer could center their piece around just Mary, and what she thinks about everyone else.
I feel like that’s what Hamilton did best; Miranda centered a historical character, “Alexander Hamilton,” and the events that just so happen to appear around HIS life, not JUST the actual event, if that makes sense.
Great review, always interesting to hear your thoughts! I saw it on Tuesday as well. I did enjoy it OK but completely agree with all your comments. I found the rhyming in the dialogue very clunky as well as the quote forced ‘women excluded from history’ parts, and that as well as the King as you said just seemed an inferior take on Hamilton to me. But some of the material was really beautiful and I hope they can tailor towards something that works more broadly.
I wanted to watch because subject matter seemed like an awesome starting point ad also because I was focusing on seeing new musicals this month. I was hoping for something dark and engaging. I was left disappointed, perhaps because not fully staged (I have never been to a musical theatre concert), but also did not meet my expectations.
I felt they used the narrator as a tool to give the piece grit, but it did not link or seem to gel with everything else, so disjointed. Overall felt I was being manipulated in various ways to like it by the use of various tropes, stereotypes and styles. i.e. paperwork, I agreed that it was an unnecessary song just to shoe in comedy. I don't know jekyl and hyde, but for me your analysis made sense, the comedy being dark, like 'a little priest ' in sweeney for example. Trying to get a reaction by mentioning our modern situation re prime minister is cheap. Other way it felt formulaic was the King character, carbon copy of hamilton and for no reason really. I took issue with it being marketed as such in promos and social media by cast etc, because I think it should try and stand alone, you can't be hamilton and that is fine.
I was in the balcony, so couldn't see any projections, so maybe they give more context. Great singers, like Jaden, Rhoden and some good songs that I enjoyed. I expect that more context would be given with a book/script as it felt like there were gaps that needed context. Re you choreo comment, I think it felt like it was used to beef up the fact it was a concert, so maybe it isn't the proposed end goal choreographically.
I would still want to see it if fully staged to see what is added with the full works, but I expected more
Only thought on the review is thinking that the spiritual crisis in “inevitable” is out of keeping with Matha’s motivations. Staunch Catholics often have those issues and even more so in an event like this and more realistic than just all being certain.
I loved the show but agree it was a bit too much of everything to do what it wants perfectly. That said i’ll still go and see it staged, the cast were outstanding. But certainly doesn’t feel quite finished. But that’s ok
I don't know why you give me such Simon Cowell energy, you just do 😭
I don't think it's smart marketing to invite comparisons to Hamilton
Cecil is pronounced 'sisil', dear boy! One must know these things, don't you know? (Ha, ha!)
I believe that the plotters were caught because of a letter of warning that was written to a member of parliament. That may be why they got the women to write that letter instead of one of the men.
British answer to Hamilton is Operation Mincemeat for me
Mickey, you make some excellent points, but PLEASE store your mayo in the fridge!
Wicked the musical
I saw the show, and it was kinda like I’d seen it before. Didn’t feel all that original in terms of story or delivery. The music was beautiful, I loved the melodies, and the performances were phenomenal. But I left feeling.. meh, like that’s it? What even happened? It wasn’t a compelling nor well told story
I loved this Treason concert and there are some great songs in it. You are absolutely right about the need for more of a button on some of the songs particularly in the second half. It's also a good point about exploring emotions more and threading the narrator through a bit more. I think it definitely has a future and would love to see it fully developed. Those songs are too good to disappear.
Treasonous -
Involving or guilty of the crime of betraying one's country.
The only thing that “Treason” has in common with “Hamilton” is that it’s History (in the narrow sense that contemporary generations know anything about History… other than Period Costumes and dismissing it as Marx advocated in this Manifesto as “irrelevant”)
“Hamilton” which is really an incoherent series of episodes taken from the Biography - stitched together by rap music - is NEVERTHELESS set against the backdrop of the America Revolution… the 1st and only Revolution set down in a Declaration of Individual Rights to which “any form of government” is subordinate (that Marxist dismiss by playing the race card as if slavery was unique to that time and only based on race… but that’s why Marxist don’t want to discuss actual History)
“Treason?” The Catholic “justified” gun powder plot was just another moment in a hundred years of plots to commit genocide based on a “labeling” of Christianity that really was just the remnants of the English Civil War… and it sounds like this musical won’t even capture that much!
Trust me, a hundred years from now IF people go back to listen to musicals for anything more than pastiche… “1776” has as far greater Story with far more fascinating Characterizations of our Forefathers than “Hamilton” title character being a prig adulterer who died in a duel because he was a fool to believe Burr wouldn’t shoot! Aside from setting the show to rap… seriously WHAT is it all about but “snippets from the book” (that is far more interesting as it covers Hamilton’s plans for EMPIRE!)
Face it, this one authentic recorded exchange between Hamilton and President Adams was more insightful than ANYTHING that happens in the musical!
th-cam.com/video/KaWBs46USqE/w-d-xo.html
convinced it was made cause treason was a cool name tbh
I have heard nothing of this show in the US, but your review made me cackle out loud. Perfectly nerdy and witty. I don’t have time to look up treasonous either, but it is most certainly a word - Americans get accused of it a lot, lol.
Review Netflix " 13 Musical" ...Hint: A total disaster.