6:18 I take exception to this point. If you are flying your American registered aircraft in Canada you have to use the ‘November’ and full registration on every call; just like when I fly into the U.S.A. I am now required to always say my entire Charlie Foxtrot Mike Victor Uniform on every call to ATC. Using the whole registration (Canadian in USA / USA in Canada) changed a few years ago - and some ATC are sticklers for it, and some let it slide. When Flying here in Canada I’m required on my initial call to each new ATC to say Foxtrot Mike Victor Uniform (dropping the Charlie as understood) - which then usually gets shortened to Mike Victor Uniform. Though some controllers are now starting to use the entire registration here at home as well.
You are absolutely correct. I meant to say "in the U.S.", not "in North America". I think it's more common near the border where many international planes fly in. Flying in the middle of the country, "November" is not necessary.
Don’t use November! Yea, I know it’s permitted but so is using an aircraft model. Do use aircraft model. Say “Skyhawks” and I’ll try to figure out if I’m looking for a C172 or an A-4. I don’t know what a “November” looks like.
@@bobcoulter8188 Bob - do you not know what we’re talking about? ‘November’ as in the first letter of your tail registration. Perhaps you’ve never flown internationally, and have never asked for flight following?
In the US there seems to be a custom of presuming that aircraft are all N-numbers and you must include the country code if registered other than N. I my experience ATC does not get persnickety about that. I can't speak to busy class Bravos, though.
I looked it up in the government publications (AIM, PCG?) a long time ago and IF FLYING AN AMERICAN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT IN AMERICA you can say the manufacturer (Cessna) and drop the "November" or you can say "November" without the manufacturer if I remember correctly.
26 years in the fire service and 15 years flying. I use radios on a regular frequent basis, in some of the most stressful situations you can imagine. My advice for radio traffic… think what you want to say, say it once (at least in your head if not out loud), if you have to take a breath before you’ve finished, rethink what you are going to say. Once you know what you’re going to say, listen for a break in traffic, key the mic, take a breath, say what you practiced, take a breath, release the mic. This does a couple of things. It helps you be concise, keeps the message short, makes sure you aren’t interrupting, the breath before speaking and after speaking while still having the mic on, insures you didn’t cut off your message early. If you can’t make your message in one breath, it’s too long.
@ believe me, radio traffic on the first 5 minutes of a structure fire is a lot busier than any airport at any time, much less the declaration of a mayday on a fire scene (unimaginable radio traffic associated with that) The discipline to keep traffic short and concise is and always will be better than what I hear most pilots do when they key the mic. And yes that includes professional pilots traffic. There are very few moments in any radio traffic that require an immediate response that takes anything more than a read back for a “directive”. Certainly not in Aviation, even a declaration of an emergency in a plane, your number one job before communication is aviate and navigate. Having the discipline to form your radio traffic in a concise structure, before ever keying the mic is more important when radio traffic is busy then actually the perceived need to communicate, period. I would venture to say that 50% of what is communicated over a radio in aviation is unnecessary at best. This is why busy airports like O’hare, DFW, the Anchorage bowl in Alaska that has over 100 airports in a 30 mile radius with the 4th busiest airspace in the world (between the class C, 5 class D’s (that include 2 busy military airbases) and the over 100 satellite strips. have frequencies broken down into multiple frequencies. Having flown thru 2 different class B’s I can tell you the radio traffic and for that matter the air traffic in anchorage is busier then anything i experienced anywhere else outside of a fire ground emergency and I still to this day, practice exactly what I described as best practices for radio communications. Nothing on the radio or for that matter an aircraft is a hurry up and rush with the exception of an inflight emergency, and communication is the last thing you do in those situations.
I took my MEI Checkride couple weeks ago- I kept saying "With You at 8000." My big time United Captain DPE was getting very annoyed. I couldn't stop saying it.... he kept getting more irritated- I thought he was going to flunk me! He even brought it up to me in the debrief. I have been in therapy and been working on it- and I no longer say "with you!" It was pretty funny... The DPE is a friend of mine- I sent him your video. We both had a good laugh! Great stuff
He was definitely in pain! I will tell him what you said. Very funny. I think the funniest part is the first thing that he talks about. Totally cracks me up.
New pilot here, less than 100 hours. I was doing the left/right final one because I called left crosswind, downwind, and base, I just thought it was the logical thing to do until my instructor informed me otherwise and now I don't do that anymore. The other one I need to work on, being a little long winded on my initial call with intentions into uncontrolled field. It's usually because I haven't fully thought it through first, definitely need to work on that one for sure. Thanks for the tips!
When I first started flying, I said Left Final all the time! When announcing positions you say Left Downwind and Left base, so Left Final just kinda matched the flow of the calls. I ended up switching CFIs and he chuckled when I did it the first time with him. He said it’s kind of a running joke about how you tell new pilots are in the pattern. That fixed my calls immediately 😂
I don’t see using “Full Stop” as a bad thing or unnecessary. It does give incoming traffic what to expect of the landing aircraft. Depending on your location in the air or on the ground it gives you the pilot’s intentions. If the landing traffic needs to go around they will announce that if it happens. Great video !
I think it works at airports where there is a lot of training (and many folks inbound tend to finish their lesson with touch and goes). If you don't say it, full stop is always assumed.
Half the traffic at my towered home airport is doing the option; so I always announce “full stop” when flying in because it helps the ATC to manage traffic.
My home airport is tower controlled and if I don’t include “Full stop”, they ask me how this landing will terminate… to which I so badly want to say “ Hopefully rightside up” !
I don’t care what y’all say, just keep it short on a busy freq. Nothing worse than trying to check in on NY Approach and having some guy do a long-winded “gooooooood morning NY approach this is Skyhawk November 12345 with you…” Comm. Brevity.
Nicely done John, and six minutes to the new year. I hope you, Maddy, Quinn and the whole lovely family are having a lovely break over the new year break. I've noticed some American pilots saying blah, blah, blah "for 123AB". That one grinds my gears and I'm not even in your country! Cheers from a cold and wet NZL, David (Where's summer?!)
Here in Southern Ontario Canada, the one that drives me nuts is when someone comes on the radio and after their call sign uses the word "currently" to describe their position (Currently 10 miles south of... at xxxx feet). Just state your altitude and location! We know it's "current" because you're announcing it. For long winded radio callers I nick name them "podcasters" Unfortunately lots of instructors are guilty of being podcasters, which makes their students podcasters too.
I’m a Canadian pilot and I’ve noticed that most US pilots reading back everything the controller says. In Canada we only read back hold short instructions. Not “taxi alpha, bravo, right on delta, cross 23 and we’ll call you back on 120.10 holding short of rwy 30. Holy moly just read back “hold short 30”. Thats it unless the ruling is different down there that i don’t know about but i’ve never been chastised by ATC yet. As far as call signs go. whatever the controller calls you, you must repeat the same. If he/she uses your whole call sign then you need to repeat the same. if they don’t use N you don’t use N. If they say 8MP then you say 8MP. No need to say aircraft type or model every time you communicate with ATC. Only on initial contact. They say 8MP climb and maintain 5000. You say “5000 8MP”. He/She will see you climb on radar. If they can’t see you on radar they will say “8MP climb and report level 5000”. You say “report 5000 8MP. Thats it nothing else unless they ask for it. It’s their ball game!! Anyhow i love flying in the US. So many beautiful airports and wonderful people there. I always say about aviation in the US “every town seems to have an airport or every airport has its own town”. Lol. CGNBR PA28
There are requirements sometime stated on the ATIS to “ read back all taxi and hold short instructions.” This is to cover ATC’s behind to make sure instructions are understood and followed.
Used to love hearing a pilot tell me “Fog all the way to the ground” when giving a PIREP or telling me they could maintain visual separation with another SVFR aircraft that was going in a direction 180 degrees from their direction in 1 mile visibility.
One of my biggest pet peeves is pilots calling for their clearance like this: "clearance on request to Charlotte." No. "Clearance on request" is ATC's response to you while they obtain your clearance, it's not what you say when you ask for it. You just say, "Tampa clearance, callsign, IFR to Charlotte." (Add ATIS code or gate, as necessary.)
The only thing I would add to that is "clearance" vs "IFR". In the U S. That works, try to get a clearance in China and they'll have no idea what you're talking about if you want to keep it full ICAO.
Good info on the "traffic in sight" question. I tend to tell approach I've got the traffic on ADS-B; I didn't realized they don't need that info. I'll stop now!
…Well… I am someone who has greatly appreciated knowing that the the aircraft I was hoping to avoid has me “on screen” (altitude, proximity, closure rate- all really good information when you are trying to not trade paint). This was my only point of contention with this largely useful video: The controller isn’t the only one listening to the helpful traffic information being exchanged… I don’t think I’m going to change my procedure on this one.
@ That’s a hard “no”. They are asking if you SEE them. If you don’t have a visual, there is only one correct answer. Lots of people do it wrong. Nothing I can do about that!
The worst violators of radio etiquette are TH-cam pilots. OMG! Some of them are chatty, chatty, chatty. They respond unnecessarily, volunteer irrelevant information, and flirt with controllers.
That's the scary thing about TH-cam pilots. Many are brand new Private Pilots that know virtually NOTHING. They get a big following and suddenly are proclaimed "influencers". They can't land in a crosswind or hold altitude....but they sure are entertaining!
One TH-camr controller/pilot seemed routinely complacent regarding radio etiquette when in the left seat. I cringed! Then again, I helped cater an anniversary party for a MedFlight operation and was shocked that so many of the ER staff got extremely inebriated and drove home. Let's all be continually mindful of the easy "that's not me", "get-home-itis", and "there's nobody to hear me anyway" errors both in flight and throughout life.
I do the opposite. I am brief and concise on the radio and try to make my calls as correct as possible in the videos I produce. I've had quite a few people compliment me on it as a result, and tell me they have learned radio procedures by listening to my videos.
I never experienced that level of unprofessionalism. This actually happens? I think it would be like going out with no pants on. Inherently embarassing.
I like your review of annoying transmissions. I am celebrating 50 years of having pilots license. Back in the day, when ATC called out traffic, we would respond by saying " Tally Ho' or "No Joy". This was quick and sweet.
Amen sir. I’m leaving this comment at 1:30 into the video, because…. during your setup, I started thinking “what is the 1st thing he’s going to list?” Sure enough it’s “with you.!” I still remember a crusty old check pilot going on a rant about this many years ago, and I then realized I wasn’t the only one who thought this was dumb. But I recall hearing “with you” when I was an impressionable young student pilot and assuming it was cool lingo. Eventually I learned that measured, judicious use of words is most effective. I can only assume you will go on to say “reading back every word of a controller’s transmission,’ as opposed to the required items. I’ll continue watching to find out. Good topic that many could learn from!
Even mediocre flight instructors have been hammering this point home many years now. Use of this phrase suggests a weakness in training and experience.
That's true. Coming in to a busy towered airport it just seems silly. Should I say that when checking in with Laguardia in the 737? (I know...completely different thing...)
@@quinnjim Oh yeah situational for sure. I'm based at a relatively quiet Charlie, and when I get switched over to tower, I like to do something like "Cessna 12345, straight-in runway 1, full stop Million-Air." Who I am, what I'm doing, what I'm planning, all nice and tight.
I always appreciate “full stop” especially when they have been doing pattern work consistently as it’s going to take them a lot more time to get off the active runway than if they are doing touch and goes. I will definitely extend my downwind a bit more If I hear full stop as I will quickly eat up the full stop traffic when my field that I am at is long with turn offs only at both ends and training aircraft never land long to get closer to the end turnoff.
@@streettosky5983 That’s a good idea in training situations. Initial call to a big airport is a bit different. Everyone is a full stop unless they ask for something different.
Unless you have an 8,000 runway, make a standard SOP for yourself and your students that there should only be 4 planes "doing pattern work" at a time. If there's a fifth, someone leaves the pattern or goes "full stop," so that's the right time to say "full stop" if you wanna help maintain safe pilot-controlled separation.
@@erickborling1302 Only 4 planes? I've seen 8-10. Pretty sketchy. There is no official rule on it, but I don't want to be in the pattern with more than 5 planes anymore.
Great issue to bring up to help folks. FYI “November” on an American aircraft initial call with a controller is required in anywhere in North America, excerpt the USA. If the controller shortens it on a reply, then you can shorten it on subsequent transmissions. However, each time you check in with a new controller, you should once again use your full call sign, if it’s a foreign aircraft to whatever country you’re flying in, you have to use your full call sign on your initial call. Another pet peeve of mine is any call that ends with “conflicting aircraft please advise.” It’s redundant. That’s the whole point of the transmission. Happy flying.
Great stuff! I might add... I do say full stop when doing touch and goes at uncontrolled when busy...also some people speak so fast...as if they think they are the professional yet I have to ask to repeat .... great vid
Two of my favorite examples, during training at an uncontrolled field, involved pilots not saying anything when it would have been fabulous if they had. First, a crop duster (who did carry a portable radio but used it sparingly) taking off downwind against the traffic flow (3 planes in the pattern), I find him on his takeoff roll as I was preparing downwind to base, forcing me to abort and turn away from the airport until I could see his intentions. Second, as I was again on downwind to base, a jet enters the runway and sits a bit to run checklists, I assume. Again, no radio call before taking the runway and the rest in the pattern forced to bend the knee to the mighty jet pilot. 🧑✈️
Very nicely done. I'd love to be in the pattern with you! Just to add one more. "Looking for" when making a request. Just use the word 'Request" It's a small peeve, however I have been hearing it alot.
I hate when I hear " Any traffic in the area please advise". How about monitor the frequency and you will hear the traffic if its there. Hate hearing "In the Box" and "Looking at the fishfinder"
"Any traffic in the area..." Sorry, but I've flown into too many little airfields where the locals have minimal radio discipline and no one is talking until they realize someone else is a factor. Getting people to pipe up seems like a reasonable ask, and if there really is no one in the area, what's the harm?
Have you ever been on an IFR flight plan flying into an uncontrolled airport in a high density traffic area. I flew into one in south Florida around Miami. I got released 5 miles from the airport. Flying an Angel flight into this airport was a small nightmare. And at 3 miles a minute you don’t have a lot of time to get a full picture. You can’t just fly away and come back when you have class b, c, and d all around you.
It's the only phrase specifically spelled out in the AIM that you should NOT ever use: General. Self‐announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self‐announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.
Is that a Citabria in the background? I learned to fly on one. Off topic, but good memories! And the radio thing... my flight instructors bame was Roger. Always good for a chuckle when the tower acknowledges him.
I've also heard a lot of pilots lately shorten their tail number to the last two characters and then to make it worse, just say the letters instead of phonetically. Example, for 123SA, just saying S A and not Sierra Alpha. Is that a new thing or are pilots just getting lazier?
I never thought about the full stop one. I’ve been saying full stop for awhile now. I practiced at a busy airport where you were expected to be doing a stop and go. So it’s like the opposite. I don’t know if everyone does that in training or what though. I’m pretty new.
My biggest radio peeves... - Short final call when they are still in the next county - Saying the N number at the beginning and end of a transmission - Sounding too happy - "Clear the Active"
3:37 Not only listen for a moment before talking on the radio. It depends what ATC just said. Again, situational awareness. Don't break up a call. If ATC is in the middle of a transmission, giving someone instructions, etc. Wait until the receiving party responds before talking. Another peeve of mine, calling the transponder "the box" when reading back a departure clearance, ie, "2354 in the box."
The airport I trained at had poor visibility from the runway to the hangars. Also the taxiway to the hangars was narrow with no good way to pass another plane. Consequently we called out our taxi to and from the runway. Out of habit I sometimes did the same at other airports and, of course, occasionally got called out for it.
Along the same lines as "with you;" "Be advised" I cannot stand hearing this. You got my attention when you used my callsign at the beginning of your transmission. I'm already alert to being advised by you about something.
@@tomclouse perhaps, but our uncontrolled field has a lot of blind spots between the hangars and taxiways , it is nice to know if I’m expecting someone at a taxiway intersection. The two flight schools I have been at in the past two years both taught self announced ground movement at uncontrolled fields
I can lend some depth to why this happens. At airports with large flight schools training future airline pilots on the field and a control tower, there may be an SOP requiring students to make those calls. Sometimes those schools have foreign students (or mostly Chinese students, etc), and their pronunciation is atrocious. And, the comms have a training purpose for the prospective airline pilots. That is... preparing the student for all their future radio work (dispatch, gate control, etc). Good radio comms require awareness and linguistic maturity. At some level it's an art.
When I’m approaching an uncontrolled airport and it sounds quiet with nobody in the area, I appreciate hearing someone announce that they’re taxiing out to runway bla bla
To start an argument, the leg immediately after takeoff is the takeoff or departure leg, not the upwind. Check the AIM. The upwind leg is opposite the downwind leg.
It is true but I hardly ever hear anyone say departure. Even at towered airports they will call it upwind. All of the young CFIs at my local flight school say upwind. So effectively it is the upwind regardless of the AIM because everyone will know what you’re talking about in the real world where it matters
It was always called the "upwind" leg in the past. Now, the FAA says "The upwind leg is course flown parallel to the landing runway in the same direction as landing traffic. The upwind leg is flown at controlled airports and after go-arounds." This is from the airplane flying handbook, page 168. You will hear tower say "continue the upwind". I think both ways can be correct, depending on the situation.
The best phraseology is the one that causes the least confusion. At my Class D airport, it’s the controllers who use the term, “upwind,” more than the pilots themselves. Example: “Traffic is a Cessna upwind for left closed traffic 28 left, cleared for takeoff runway 28 right.” Pilots performing touch and gos at uncontrolled airports should be flying their airplane to a positive rate of climb and cleaning it up, prior to fussing with announcing the obvious. When the pilot is good and ready to turn crosswind in the pattern, then they should certainly announce what they’re doing. I don’t think that there’s any reason to be pedantic about the meaning of “upwind,” as long as everyone gets it.
Great post! You hit nearly all of my own pet peeves. Some of my others are reading back too much information. Read back only the required clearance items and nothing more. When you get a vector for traffic, ATC doesn't need to hear the "vector for traffic" part.
It’s ATC that most often puts November in front of my call sign! I see this at busier class C airports, from ARTCC, and even class Ds like Henderson, NV where not all traffic is US registration. I’ve also used my call sign only to have ATC tell me to “say my full call sign.” I’m thinking that I just did! But they wanted to hear the November in front! My takeaway: use November for Charlie and Bravo class fields - leave it out at Deltas or untowered.
At controlled airports, upwind is the initial leg you are flying. They might say "continue your upwind for traffic" for instance. Also, if you are going around, it happens on the upwind leg. You can read about it on page 168 of The Airplane Flying Handbook.
@@quinnjim my AFH doesn’t have page 168, but page 8-2 shows it to be called the Departure leg in FAA-H-8083-3C. I believe there’s been a recent AC that further defines the difference between Departure leg and Upwind. Some controllers still use the old verbiage out of habit. Does it make sense to use different leg names depending on whether the airport has a tower or not?
@@erickborling1302 opposite means the side of the runway opposite the published pattern. Whether it’s right or left is dependent upon the field, and is indicated on the sectional chart by the presence or absence of the letters RP.
There is even less to say if you are flying in controlled airspace with flight following. Upon handoff, they are anticipating you and already know your intentions, so you only need to make radio contact...
Usually true but maybe not when you’re doing something they wouldn’t expect. Example: Flying from airport A to B and you told controller #1 you’d first be detouring to overfly a location 20 miles away from your destination airport. If you don’t tell them that then they are likely to ask why you’re not on course. You get handed off to controller #2. There’s an excellent chance #2 didn’t get the message about the detour since that kind of thing isn’t part of a normal handoff. So - when radio traffic is slow - they will probably appreciate you letting them know so they don’t need to wonder/worry about you. Been there, done that a number of times and always got an appreciative response from the controller.
I get it, John - I don't think you're being condescending at all. I think as a society we should all strive toward perfection in everything, even if that might be impossible. The more things are allowed to slide (like grammar), the more they become the "norm" in future generations. I hate the modern way of thinking that everything needs to change just for the sake of change. There's something to be said for standards and traditions! I see you've got a new addition to the fleet!! SWEEEET!! I'll have to back up and watch that video. 😎 Hope you and the family had a very Merry Christmas, and have a happy, healthy, Blessed and prosperous New Year!
Sinnes Ich stiī̆ple usæ bordar Saxọ̄̆nlī wordſ a'd grammar Ich waſ unablæ bihofþe reaede oth-the understanede thy new stylæ. Ich wish th' children todaī stiī̆ple usede exacÞ Saxọ̄̆nlī! TL/DR - yeah without change we’d still be speaking like that.
My home airport goes through cycles of bad habits. The field is non-towered and the latest craze is announcing "Line up and wait" . People... that's an ATC instruction used at controlled airports! Don't roll onto a runway at non-towered airport and plan to sit there- bad idea!
I think you tell people where you are going before you take off and just stop making announcements after that. Everybody heard that you were going to be Westbound after departure. No need to give a "last call" IMO.
Great video. I agree with pretty much everything. I will say that stating full stop or touch and go can be very useful depending on the airport. My home airport, where I fly recreationally, it is often helpful to give that information. I am also happy when others give. it. When I fly professionally at other airports, it is a waste of bandwidth.
Right on! Way too much chatter on Unicom these days which is affecting flight safety. Here’s a couple of more needless radio calls: 1. “Cessna 123, 10 miles south, last call.” ( so what? No one in the traffic pattern should care. IF, you are 10 south leaving the area and someone else calls in 10 south inbound, by all means say something). 2. “ Cessna 123 radio check” ….“ Cessna 123 loud and clear”…..”Cessna 123, thank you.” This shows you are an amateur pilot and do not know anything about your equipment. When you listen to AWOS or hear other aircraft on your radio, your receiver is working ! Key the mic and look for the “TX” on the radio and listen for the side tone. You can even say “test” and hear yourself. If you have a second radio you can tune both to the same frequency and say “test”, checking both of them. Unless your radio was just worked on by the avionics shop, there is no reason to ask for a radio check.
@@ddwolfe11 Very good points. Our local airport has a feature where the AWOS will sound off on the CTAF if you click the mic 5 times. Really frustrating when it gets activated 3 times every minute. Completely locks up the frequency.
Don't you love the transmissions that start with a high pitch voice and finish about 3 octaves lower so as to sound like a pro pilot? In all seriousness, I do add "negative ADSB" to my first call and also call downwind, base, and final at busy uncontrol field since I have the slowest plane in the pattern (Champ) without ADSB.
@@ps2727 But they’ll correct you if you use the wrong identifier! Hence, years ago I adopted this procedure when being uncertain of which ARTCC facility I’m contacting; mumble a syllable of something unintelligible, then clearly articulate “Center,” followed by your ID and what you have to say. Works everytime. Thanks to ADS, CPDLC and electronic charts with easy access ball notes, it’s a less-practiced method these days.
65 years as pilot, military trained radio operator. Here is a short list: PLEASE, THANK YOU, (HAVE A NICE DAY. When changing frequencies, "OUT" is the correct response), COPY OR COPY THAT (ROGER IS CORRECT it means I understand), GOOD MORNING, AFTERNOON, EVENING, GOOD NIGHT....all disallowed.
I agree with you in high traffic environments, but I think when things are quiet the friendly courtesies, while unnecessary, can enhance everyone’s day.
My polite sensibilities often get me saying "please" but it appears to be in general disuse without causing any friction. Is that what you were saying? You were not being entirely clear.
2:40 What’s worse is pilots (and flight instructors!!!) who report traffic “in sight” solely based on ADS-B. They never look out the window. This is the world we live in now.
Don't forget, CTAF is most likely a shared frequency between multiple airports within radio coverage. Taylor your calls to the situation. If there are multiple aircraft in the pattern, more detail may be necessary. If there's nobody around, be more brief and save the radio space for the other guys.
Taxing calls are about situational awareness in multiple ways. If it's very busy on a frequency, I will forego a taxi call to allow The planes that are actually flying to have that space to speak. However, if there's only one taxi way, it's good to make a call because someone could be taxing in the other direction etc
It's really situationally dependent. If there is conflict, or bad visibility I can see it as useful. In a busy pattern with a lot of activity, taxiing calls should probably be kept to a minimum.
The one I hate the most actually happens all the time at my home airport. The control tower for some reason loves to transmit on both the tower and ground frequency simultaneously, and will issue long route clearances while you are waiting to call the Tower to either get clearance to enter the airspace, or worse yet, there have been times where I have been instructed to fly straight in, and report a four or 2 mile final. I get to the point where I need to make my radio call, and the Tower is issuing a long route clearance to an IFR aircraft that will soon be departing. Not only do I have to wait for him to issue the clearance, then I have to wait for the read back, any corrections for an inaccurate readback, and by the time they are done I have blown through my reporting point via a mile or more. Worse even still is one time I was actually reprimanded by the Tower for not making my call on time, and had to remind him that when I was at the point of making my call he was busy yapping on the radio with somebody else. It's not just pilots that use poor technique on the radio.
@@AV8R_1 They do that due to lack of staffing, or just during slow times. You don’t need two controllers if nobody is flying. It can be VERY irritating though.
Only slight disagreement with one point. While every airplane that is registered in the US does start with N, we are not exclusive to all the traffic in the US. Upon first contact with air traffic control you should state your full call sign, I believe the N is part of the call sign. Every transmission past the initial contact can and should be abbreviated to the last three numbers and letters of your call sign. There are aircraft out there with only 2 characters after the N. So leaving the N out there could create confusion.
My airport has a blindspot if youre taxiing from the hangars. I like to announce taxi going to or from there because it prevents an awkward standoff if someone is about to taxi into the row im taxiing out from. Guess a different story than announcing taxi from the wide open ramp to fuel 100 feet away though lol
"Center this in Navajo 1783, squawking twelve hundred near Hagerstown, following I70 to intercept I81 up to Scranton, then I80. Looking for flight following." or "Center Southwest 231 out of eleven for fourteen, looking for ride reports and a shortcut to Providence, like to amend our final to three three zero"😂😂😂
I love this video. We do get saltier in our old age, but for good reason. And it's not just because, "kids these days!" The more types I get, and the more OE I give, the saltier - yet patient - I get. A weird combo. Part 2: Last call, and teardrop, should be added. AIM 4-1-9(g)(1) is your friend. ;) Keep up the good work, meow!
I fly at an airport with a busy college training program. More communication results in other pilots having better understanding of where you are and where to look for you, which ideally reduces the chance for a mid-air collision. Students practicing IFR in VMC need to ensure that all the VFR-only pilots understand their position, which takes a little more time on the frequency but definitely increases safety. At this airport, "full stop" makes sense because you will be occupying the only taxi way, as well as the only access point to the ramp. The fuel pumps are also very close to this single entry point. It makes a difference in how to taxi toward or away from the runway. Additionally, there's a lot of movement on the ramp, so I prefer to know about as much of this movement as possible, to reduce the chance for a ground collision. I understand pet peeves but would rather err on the side of too much information, rather than not enough. However, I absolutely agree that verbose transmissions, especially on 122.8, are pretty frustrating.
Too much talking means radio congestion, heterodynes and lost SA for everyone. I don't think you should be worried about a ground collision taxiing to the fuel pumps. Just look outside.
The word “to” since it can be confused with the number ”2”. “Skyhawk 98V 1 thousand climbing to 2 thousand”. The correct phraseology is “…….1 thousand climbing 2 thousand”. The word “for”, since it can be confused with the number “4”. “Skyhawk 98V 3 thousand for 2 thousand”. The correct phraseology is “…….. 3 thousand descending 2 thousand”. Even Airline Pilots unknowingly screw this up all the time.
That's true. A famous crash happened when a controller said "descend two four hundred". The pilots descended....to FOUR HUNDRED FEET! They crashed into a hill.
My problem with radio communications......pilots (mostly females) talking so fast on the radio who in the world can actually understand them. They sound like they are audtioning to be a FM radio commercial announcer that reads the fine print at the end of the commercial lol. I think this is a recent phenom with young people (in the last 20 years or so). Hilarious.
Yes it's not a fast-talk contest. Speak at a normal rate and style with some melody so you're not a monotone (monotonal speaking is inherently unintelligible), use the standard phraseology.
Most of your suggestions are because their Instructor failed to teach them proper radio protocol! A good instructor is invaluable to a student pilot learning the importance of conducting themselves in a professional manner!
The turnover at flight schools has really hurt the instructor population. CFI's aren't staying around long enough to get all the experience they need, and nobody is mentoring these folks (at a lot of locations).
Pilots, and people in general, are very bad at understanding that the most (only?) important part of communication is on the receiving end. The sender shouldn't say anything that is NOT important to the receiver, shouldn't leave out anything that IS important to the receiver, and should understand that the receiver is not privy to all of the little extra bits of unspoken context that are floating around in the sender's head. "What I'm saying, is it useful? Could it be more useful if I said it differently? Could it be confusing or alarming if I say it this way? Does it take up a bunch of extra time that could be better used by others for useful communication?" I try to keep these sorts of questions in my mind all the time and let them guide what I say and when I say it. Like everybody, I fail to varying degrees every time. But as I fly around I find it quite obvious that most people don't even consider how their communication is received. They're checking boxes, operating on rote.
I always include “November” in my callsign bc I only have a 4 digit registration (including the N) and ATC thinks I’m cutting it short all the time 😂. “Say again FULL callsign”
I agree with all of those. Once heard an airliner call clear of the active in Chicago. Controller responded, I have 5 active runways you are going to have to be more specific, Hoss!
On a CTAF, it’s exceptionally rude for to make an unsolicited position report right on top of someone’s call who is thirty miles away from you. Wait a couple seconds for the traffic around them to respond. If you’re doing position reports thoughtfully, each call has an intended recipient. We aren’t just talking to hear ourselves talk. In fact, if there aren’t planes near you, maybe just shut up.
I agree with "most" of what your saying. I do find it a bit un professional to call out an entire airline by name because you heard a pilot step on someone on frequency a few times. So that means all 6000 pilots do the same thing? Im sure your airline is superior. Come on man you know that better than that. There are newbies at every airline, charter operator, military squadron, etc. Yes I agree that basic radio procedures and etiquette should already be known by the time you get to a Major, but I guarantee the same thing happens at your superior airline.
The number of times that traffic has been pointed out to me by ATC and I have them on ADS-B and still can’t find them is disturbing. I really wish that all I had to do was report them as visible on my avionics. That way I wouldn’t look like I needed a seeing eye dog. “Cub 1234, traffic ahead and to your right, 1 o’clock altitude indicates 1,500 (my altitude) report in sight. “Looking for traffic, No Joy, Cub 1234”. “Cub 1234 traffic ahead and to your right, 2 o’clock, a 747, report in sight.” Hmmmm. Me Thinking:“Don’t say it, Don’t say it, yeah, but it’s right there on the fis….SLAP!
“Thank you” to ATC “if available can we x” just request it. “ reaching the end we’ll be ready for takeoff”😂😂 “heading 180 assigned” just say heading 180. “can we take it all the way to the end?” The whole runway is there for a reason🙄you don’t have to ask permission, but ATC can “ask” for you to exit D yet you can say unable. “what do you need?”If he needs something he will tell you. “N5MJT 4,000 CLIMBING to 8,000” really! Leave out the obvious guys😂
That doesn't make it right. It's a "technique", not required. If the frequency is busy and you block a more critical call being made by an aircraft in flight (or departing), you did more harm than good.
“Taking the active” at uncontrolled airports! So many people say this and it’s actually really dangerous at busy airports or airports with multiple runways. All the runways are “active” unless they are closed. Besides, it’s not nice to take it and not give it back haha.
I fly an experimental aircraft so must identify as that upon initial contact…just that much more but required. Also, my flight instructor (and now I) , cringe ever time we hear “taking the active” at our non-towered airport. Any and all runways are active!
Last I checked, improper radio communications are a legally chargeable/finable offense. if improper radio communications causes harm, expect consequences.
There was a guy who had a minor problem. He was talking so much that another airplane had a more serious problem and couldn't get a word in. The over talkative pilot got in legal trouble.
First call on CTAF" Cessna 123 at the intersection of yackyity yack and I will be landing at podunk Airport and entering a left base for runway 36 and taxing to fuel for 55 gal of 100 ll gasoline, my oldest kid is a graduate from bla black black bla" How about short and to the point "Cessna 123 10 west at 5000 landing 36 podunk" pretty much every airport has normal arivals and pattern direction and you only need that info if you are doing something different.
They always say "Inbound for a full stop", so it's longer. Not just about syllables. It's just kind of goofy (unless you are at a busy training airport where most people come back for touch and goes). Really not a big deal either way. I just think it sounds funny. To each his own.
Disagree with your take on taxi call at uncontrolled field, my field,has a mix of small and jet traffic, I always appreciate the calls on arrival or departure as it gives me a much better mental picture of what is ahead of me. Very common for jets to b departing amd landing on different runway than us prop guys they intersect! Just my thoughts
Mine (especially when its busy pattern): "South Valley Regional Airport Traffic.. Cessna 123 yada yada yada.. South Valley Regional Airport traffic" Yeah no. "South Valley Cessna 123 yada yada yada South Valley " 😅
One radio call that irritates fighter pilots is "I'm taking the shot!". That has never been said in the history of aerial warfare in the real world. Only actors who aren't pilots say that.
That's fine, but you DO occasionally say "I'm too close for missiles, switching to GUNS!".....right? It would just break my heart if that wasn't a thing.😀
6:18 I take exception to this point. If you are flying your American registered aircraft in Canada you have to use the ‘November’ and full registration on every call; just like when I fly into the U.S.A. I am now required to always say my entire Charlie Foxtrot Mike Victor Uniform on every call to ATC. Using the whole registration (Canadian in USA / USA in Canada) changed a few years ago - and some ATC are sticklers for it, and some let it slide.
When Flying here in Canada I’m required on my initial call to each new ATC to say Foxtrot Mike Victor Uniform (dropping the Charlie as understood) - which then usually gets shortened to Mike Victor Uniform. Though some controllers are now starting to use the entire registration here at home as well.
You are absolutely correct. I meant to say "in the U.S.", not "in North America". I think it's more common near the border where many international planes fly in. Flying in the middle of the country, "November" is not necessary.
Don’t use November! Yea, I know it’s permitted but so is using an aircraft model. Do use aircraft model. Say “Skyhawks” and I’ll try to figure out if I’m looking for a C172 or an A-4. I don’t know what a “November” looks like.
@@bobcoulter8188 Bob - do you not know what we’re talking about? ‘November’ as in the first letter of your tail registration. Perhaps you’ve never flown internationally, and have never asked for flight following?
In the US there seems to be a custom of presuming that aircraft are all N-numbers and you must include the country code if registered other than N. I my experience ATC does not get persnickety about that. I can't speak to busy class Bravos, though.
I looked it up in the government publications (AIM, PCG?) a long time ago and IF FLYING AN AMERICAN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT IN AMERICA you can say the manufacturer (Cessna) and drop the "November" or you can say "November" without the manufacturer if I remember correctly.
26 years in the fire service and 15 years flying. I use radios on a regular frequent basis, in some of the most stressful situations you can imagine. My advice for radio traffic… think what you want to say, say it once (at least in your head if not out loud), if you have to take a breath before you’ve finished, rethink what you are going to say. Once you know what you’re going to say, listen for a break in traffic, key the mic, take a breath, say what you practiced, take a breath, release the mic.
This does a couple of things. It helps you be concise, keeps the message short, makes sure you aren’t interrupting, the breath before speaking and after speaking while still having the mic on, insures you didn’t cut off your message early. If you can’t make your message in one breath, it’s too long.
This sounds like good advice when you are new, or if there is a lot of time. I wouldn't recommend it on O'hare ground.
@ believe me, radio traffic on the first 5 minutes of a structure fire is a lot busier than any airport at any time, much less the declaration of a mayday on a fire scene (unimaginable radio traffic associated with that) The discipline to keep traffic short and concise is and always will be better than what I hear most pilots do when they key the mic. And yes that includes professional pilots traffic. There are very few moments in any radio traffic that require an immediate response that takes anything more than a read back for a “directive”. Certainly not in Aviation, even a declaration of an emergency in a plane, your number one job before communication is aviate and navigate. Having the discipline to form your radio traffic in a concise structure, before ever keying the mic is more important when radio traffic is busy then actually the perceived need to communicate, period. I would venture to say that 50% of what is communicated over a radio in aviation is unnecessary at best. This is why busy airports like O’hare, DFW, the Anchorage bowl in Alaska that has over 100 airports in a 30 mile radius with the 4th busiest airspace in the world (between the class C, 5 class D’s (that include 2 busy military airbases) and the over 100 satellite strips. have frequencies broken down into multiple frequencies. Having flown thru 2 different class B’s I can tell you the radio traffic and for that matter the air traffic in anchorage is busier then anything i experienced anywhere else outside of a fire ground emergency and I still to this day, practice exactly what I described as best practices for radio communications. Nothing on the radio or for that matter an aircraft is a hurry up and rush with the exception of an inflight emergency, and communication is the last thing you do in those situations.
I took my MEI Checkride couple weeks ago- I kept saying "With You at 8000." My big time United Captain DPE was getting very annoyed. I couldn't stop saying it.... he kept getting more irritated- I thought he was going to flunk me! He even brought it up to me in the debrief. I have been in therapy and been working on it- and I no longer say "with you!"
It was pretty funny... The DPE is a friend of mine- I sent him your video. We both had a good laugh! Great stuff
From another United Captain DPE....I feel his pain! 😀
He was definitely in pain! I will tell him what you said. Very funny.
I think the funniest part is the first thing that he talks about. Totally cracks me up.
Roger, Wilco...
LoL !!
What’s the correct way? Just change frequency and say nothing?
New pilot here, less than 100 hours. I was doing the left/right final one because I called left crosswind, downwind, and base, I just thought it was the logical thing to do until my instructor informed me otherwise and now I don't do that anymore. The other one I need to work on, being a little long winded on my initial call with intentions into uncontrolled field. It's usually because I haven't fully thought it through first, definitely need to work on that one for sure. Thanks for the tips!
Thank you for changing your ops
When I first started flying, I said Left Final all the time! When announcing positions you say Left Downwind and Left base, so Left Final just kinda matched the flow of the calls.
I ended up switching CFIs and he chuckled when I did it the first time with him. He said it’s kind of a running joke about how you tell new pilots are in the pattern.
That fixed my calls immediately 😂
I don’t see using “Full Stop” as a bad thing or unnecessary. It does give incoming traffic what to expect of the landing aircraft. Depending on your location in the air or on the ground it gives you the pilot’s intentions. If the landing traffic needs to go around they will announce that if it happens. Great video !
I think it works at airports where there is a lot of training (and many folks inbound tend to finish their lesson with touch and goes). If you don't say it, full stop is always assumed.
Half the traffic at my towered home airport is doing the option; so I always announce “full stop” when flying in because it helps the ATC to manage traffic.
My home airport is tower controlled and if I don’t include “Full stop”, they ask me how this landing will terminate… to which I so badly want to say “ Hopefully rightside up” !
@@quinnjim True. I guess the takeaway in this case is that a pilot might more safely communicate "full stop" than worry about annoying someone.
"full stop" and "landing", both two syllables, so don't care, but don't say "full-stop landing"!
I don’t care what y’all say, just keep it short on a busy freq. Nothing worse than trying to check in on NY Approach and having some guy do a long-winded “gooooooood morning NY approach this is Skyhawk November 12345 with you…”
Comm. Brevity.
Absolutely. Then...the guy can't figure out why they won't give him flight following during a heavy arrival or departure bank.
Concur
Nicely done John, and six minutes to the new year. I hope you, Maddy, Quinn and the whole lovely family are having a lovely break over the new year break. I've noticed some American pilots saying blah, blah, blah "for 123AB". That one grinds my gears and I'm not even in your country! Cheers from a cold and wet NZL, David (Where's summer?!)
Happy New Year! We've had a mild winter so far. Temperatures are starting to drop in Chicago for the beginning of 2025.
Here in Southern Ontario Canada, the one that drives me nuts is when someone comes on the radio and after their call sign uses the word "currently" to describe their position (Currently 10 miles south of... at xxxx feet). Just state your altitude and location! We know it's "current" because you're announcing it. For long winded radio callers I nick name them "podcasters" Unfortunately lots of instructors are guilty of being podcasters, which makes their students podcasters too.
That is a good one for "part 2". Completely agree.
I’m a Canadian pilot and I’ve noticed that most US pilots reading back everything the controller says. In Canada we only read back hold short instructions. Not “taxi alpha, bravo, right on delta, cross 23 and we’ll call you back on 120.10 holding short of rwy 30. Holy moly just read back “hold short 30”. Thats it unless the ruling is different down there that i don’t know about but i’ve never been chastised by ATC yet.
As far as call signs go. whatever the controller calls you, you must repeat the same. If he/she uses your whole call sign then you need to repeat the same. if they don’t use N you don’t use N. If they say 8MP then you say 8MP. No need to say aircraft type or model every time you communicate with ATC. Only on initial contact. They say 8MP climb and maintain 5000. You say “5000 8MP”. He/She will see you climb on radar. If they can’t see you on radar they will say “8MP climb and report level 5000”. You say “report 5000 8MP. Thats it nothing else unless they ask for it. It’s their ball game!! Anyhow i love flying in the US. So many beautiful airports and wonderful people there. I always say about aviation in the US “every town seems to have an airport or every airport has its own town”. Lol. CGNBR PA28
There are requirements sometime stated on the ATIS to “ read back all taxi and hold short instructions.” This is to cover ATC’s behind to make sure instructions are understood and followed.
Used to love hearing a pilot tell me “Fog all the way to the ground” when giving a PIREP or telling me they could maintain visual separation with another SVFR aircraft that was going in a direction 180 degrees from their direction in 1 mile visibility.
One of my biggest pet peeves is pilots calling for their clearance like this: "clearance on request to Charlotte." No. "Clearance on request" is ATC's response to you while they obtain your clearance, it's not what you say when you ask for it. You just say, "Tampa clearance, callsign, IFR to Charlotte." (Add ATIS code or gate, as necessary.)
Very true.
The only thing I would add to that is "clearance" vs "IFR". In the U S. That works, try to get a clearance in China and they'll have no idea what you're talking about if you want to keep it full ICAO.
@ Yes, my example was straight from the AIM, for US. Thankfully many places overseas offer clearance via ACARS-DCL or CDPLC.
@ Yes, my example was straight from the AIM, for US. Thankfully many places overseas offer clearance via ACARS-DCL or CDPLC.
Perhaps a separate vid for IFR comms? Please?
Good info on the "traffic in sight" question. I tend to tell approach I've got the traffic on ADS-B; I didn't realized they don't need that info. I'll stop now!
That would be great.😀
…Well… I am someone who has greatly appreciated knowing that the the aircraft I was hoping to avoid has me “on screen” (altitude, proximity, closure rate- all really good information when you are trying to not trade paint). This was my only point of contention with this largely useful video: The controller isn’t the only one listening to the helpful traffic information being exchanged… I don’t think I’m going to change my procedure on this one.
@ That’s a hard “no”. They are asking if you SEE them. If you don’t have a visual, there is only one correct answer. Lots of people do it wrong. Nothing I can do about that!
My towered home airport specifically states “Full Stop” in their pilots communications guide.
The worst violators of radio etiquette are TH-cam pilots. OMG! Some of them are chatty, chatty, chatty. They respond unnecessarily, volunteer irrelevant information, and flirt with controllers.
That's the scary thing about TH-cam pilots. Many are brand new Private Pilots that know virtually NOTHING. They get a big following and suddenly are proclaimed "influencers". They can't land in a crosswind or hold altitude....but they sure are entertaining!
One TH-camr controller/pilot seemed routinely complacent regarding radio etiquette when in the left seat. I cringed! Then again, I helped cater an anniversary party for a MedFlight operation and was shocked that so many of the ER staff got extremely inebriated and drove home. Let's all be continually mindful of the easy "that's not me", "get-home-itis", and "there's nobody to hear me anyway" errors both in flight and throughout life.
I do the opposite. I am brief and concise on the radio and try to make my calls as correct as possible in the videos I produce. I've had quite a few people compliment me on it as a result, and tell me they have learned radio procedures by listening to my videos.
I never experienced that level of unprofessionalism. This actually happens? I think it would be like going out with no pants on. Inherently embarassing.
I like your review of annoying transmissions. I am celebrating 50 years of having pilots license. Back in the day, when ATC called out traffic, we would respond by saying " Tally Ho' or "No Joy". This was quick and sweet.
In at least the past 20 years those expressions have become unacceptable even in the official guidance.
Best part: "Don't say things that don't exist" 😆Great advice while in the pattern and in life in general ;)
Amen sir. I’m leaving this comment at 1:30 into the video, because…. during your setup, I started thinking “what is the 1st thing he’s going to list?” Sure enough it’s “with you.!” I still remember a crusty old check pilot going on a rant about this many years ago, and I then realized I wasn’t the only one who thought this was dumb. But I recall hearing “with you” when I was an impressionable young student pilot and assuming it was cool lingo. Eventually I learned that measured, judicious use of words is most effective. I can only assume you will go on to say “reading back every word of a controller’s transmission,’ as opposed to the required items. I’ll continue watching to find out. Good topic that many could learn from!
Even mediocre flight instructors have been hammering this point home many years now. Use of this phrase suggests a weakness in training and experience.
"Inbound full stop" and "inbound landing" are the same number of syllables, FWIW, and the first confers more specific information.
That's true. Coming in to a busy towered airport it just seems silly. Should I say that when checking in with Laguardia in the 737? (I know...completely different thing...)
@@quinnjim Oh yeah situational for sure. I'm based at a relatively quiet Charlie, and when I get switched over to tower, I like to do something like "Cessna 12345, straight-in runway 1, full stop Million-Air." Who I am, what I'm doing, what I'm planning, all nice and tight.
@@AlexJamesFitzVideos That works!
@@AlexJamesFitzVideos - We all like it "nice and tight".
I always appreciate “full stop” especially when they have been doing pattern work consistently as it’s going to take them a lot more time to get off the active runway than if they are doing touch and goes. I will definitely extend my downwind a bit more If I hear full stop as I will quickly eat up the full stop traffic when my field that I am at is long with turn offs only at both ends and training aircraft never land long to get closer to the end turnoff.
@@streettosky5983 That’s a good idea in training situations. Initial call to a big airport is a bit different. Everyone is a full stop unless they ask for something different.
Unless you have an 8,000 runway, make a standard SOP for yourself and your students that there should only be 4 planes "doing pattern work" at a time. If there's a fifth, someone leaves the pattern or goes "full stop," so that's the right time to say "full stop" if you wanna help maintain safe pilot-controlled separation.
On t'uther hand touch and goes on a 7,000' runway take forever. Head over to the airport with a 2,600' runway for maximum touch and goes per-hour.
@@erickborling1302 Only 4 planes? I've seen 8-10. Pretty sketchy. There is no official rule on it, but I don't want to be in the pattern with more than 5 planes anymore.
Great issue to bring up to help folks.
FYI “November” on an American aircraft initial call with a controller is required in anywhere in North America, excerpt the USA.
If the controller shortens it on a reply, then you can shorten it on subsequent transmissions.
However, each time you check in with a new controller, you should once again use your full call sign,
if it’s a foreign aircraft to whatever country you’re flying in, you have to use your full call sign on your initial call.
Another pet peeve of mine is any call that ends with “conflicting aircraft please advise.” It’s redundant. That’s the whole point of the transmission.
Happy flying.
I definitely misspoke. I meant to say "in the U.S.", not "North America". Thanks!
Great stuff! I might add... I do say full stop when doing touch and goes at uncontrolled when busy...also some people speak so fast...as if they think they are the professional yet I have to ask to repeat .... great vid
Preach. Nicely done. I also hate it when people say “traffic” at the end of their calls.
That will be in "part 2"! 😀
That's the one that drives me crazy!
Two of my favorite examples, during training at an uncontrolled field, involved pilots not saying anything when it would have been fabulous if they had. First, a crop duster (who did carry a portable radio but used it sparingly) taking off downwind against the traffic flow (3 planes in the pattern), I find him on his takeoff roll as I was preparing downwind to base, forcing me to abort and turn away from the airport until I could see his intentions. Second, as I was again on downwind to base, a jet enters the runway and sits a bit to run checklists, I assume. Again, no radio call before taking the runway and the rest in the pattern forced to bend the knee to the mighty jet pilot. 🧑✈️
Thank you. I’ve made some of these mistakes. I will be more aware now
Very nicely done. I'd love to be in the pattern with you! Just to add one more. "Looking for" when making a request. Just use the word 'Request" It's a small peeve, however I have been hearing it alot.
@@StpBks That’s true.
I hate when I hear " Any traffic in the area please advise". How about monitor the frequency and you will hear the traffic if its there. Hate hearing "In the Box" and "Looking at the fishfinder"
I kind of agree. If you listen up starting at 20 miles out, you should have a pretty good picture of what is going on.
"Any traffic in the area..." Sorry, but I've flown into too many little airfields where the locals have minimal radio discipline and no one is talking until they realize someone else is a factor. Getting people to pipe up seems like a reasonable ask, and if there really is no one in the area, what's the harm?
Have you ever been on an IFR flight plan flying into an uncontrolled airport in a high density traffic area. I flew into one in south Florida around Miami. I got released 5 miles from the airport. Flying an Angel flight into this airport was a small nightmare. And at 3 miles a minute you don’t have a lot of time to get a full picture. You can’t just fly away and come back when you have class b, c, and d all around you.
It's the only phrase specifically spelled out in the AIM that you should NOT ever use:
General. Self‐announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self‐announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, “Traffic in the area, please advise” is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.
@@philiproesel7885 Yes. The controller gives me what he sees for traffic in the area and then releases me.
With you, final call, 10 mile final (cirrus pilots)….. the worst
Those are all true. I will now go cry myself to sleep since I fly a Cirrus.
@ 😂 sorry dude, had to say it
Is that a Citabria in the background? I learned to fly on one. Off topic, but good memories!
And the radio thing... my flight instructors bame was Roger. Always good for a chuckle when the tower acknowledges him.
It's a 1974 Decathlon. There is a video about it on my channel. A pilot named Roger is hilarious.
I've also heard a lot of pilots lately shorten their tail number to the last two characters and then to make it worse, just say the letters instead of phonetically.
Example, for 123SA, just saying S A and not Sierra Alpha. Is that a new thing or are pilots just getting lazier?
I have understood in the past that it is good form to wait for the controller to abbreviate the call sign before you begin using it.
“Are pilots getting lazier?” Oh dear my friend. This is the slippery slope of old man hood (or old woman hood). Kids these days.
Why say inbound for “landing” then? Isn’t landing implied?
That's an easy one. Sometimes you are just calling because you are transitioning the area (and are in potential conflict with planes in the pattern).
I thought the same thing, I just say "Landing". If I'm planning to do that I must be inbound!
I never thought about the full stop one. I’ve been saying full stop for awhile now. I practiced at a busy airport where you were expected to be doing a stop and go. So it’s like the opposite. I don’t know if everyone does that in training or what though. I’m pretty new.
Sometimes it's appropriate at busy training spots.
My biggest radio peeves...
- Short final call when they are still in the next county
- Saying the N number at the beginning and end of a transmission
- Sounding too happy
- "Clear the Active"
What you really want is to stretch out that "Noovemmberrrrr" as if you forgot your tail number and are trying to look it up
3:37 Not only listen for a moment before talking on the radio. It depends what ATC just said. Again, situational awareness. Don't break up a call. If ATC is in the middle of a transmission, giving someone instructions, etc. Wait until the receiving party responds before talking.
Another peeve of mine, calling the transponder "the box" when reading back a departure clearance, ie, "2354 in the box."
The airport I trained at had poor visibility from the runway to the hangars. Also the taxiway to the hangars was narrow with no good way to pass another plane. Consequently we called out our taxi to and from the runway. Out of habit I sometimes did the same at other airports and, of course, occasionally got called out for it.
Along the same lines as "with you;" "Be advised" I cannot stand hearing this. You got my attention when you used my callsign at the beginning of your transmission. I'm already alert to being advised by you about something.
That's a good one! I need to start making notes for "part 2"!
Thank you, I’ve been taught by multiple CFI’s that I’m supposed to make radio call when taxiing in an uncontrolled airport.
It's overkill, and no need to do it unless there's a bit of ground traffic.
@@tomclouse perhaps, but our uncontrolled field has a lot of blind spots between the hangars and taxiways , it is nice to know if I’m expecting someone at a taxiway intersection. The two flight schools I have been at in the past two years both taught self announced ground movement at uncontrolled fields
There is no reason for fixed wing traffic to ever say left or right when flying the published pattern.
@@Rio_Seco the reason to say left or right is to inform other pilots of non stardard patterns.
I can lend some depth to why this happens. At airports with large flight schools training future airline pilots on the field and a control tower, there may be an SOP requiring students to make those calls. Sometimes those schools have foreign students (or mostly Chinese students, etc), and their pronunciation is atrocious. And, the comms have a training purpose for the prospective airline pilots. That is... preparing the student for all their future radio work (dispatch, gate control, etc). Good radio comms require awareness and linguistic maturity. At some level it's an art.
When I’m approaching an uncontrolled airport and it sounds quiet with nobody in the area, I appreciate hearing someone announce that they’re taxiing out to runway bla bla
To start an argument, the leg immediately after takeoff is the takeoff or departure leg, not the upwind. Check the AIM. The upwind leg is opposite the downwind leg.
It is true but I hardly ever hear anyone say departure. Even at towered airports they will call it upwind. All of the young CFIs at my local flight school say upwind. So effectively it is the upwind regardless of the AIM because everyone will know what you’re talking about in the real world where it matters
If you are remaining in the pattern you say upwind as to not confuse people with the word ‘departure’
It was always called the "upwind" leg in the past. Now, the FAA says "The upwind leg is course flown parallel to the landing runway in the same direction as landing traffic. The upwind leg is flown at controlled airports and after go-arounds." This is from the airplane flying handbook, page 168. You will hear tower say "continue the upwind". I think both ways can be correct, depending on the situation.
The best phraseology is the one that causes the least confusion. At my Class D airport, it’s the controllers who use the term, “upwind,” more than the pilots themselves. Example: “Traffic is a Cessna upwind for left closed traffic 28 left, cleared for takeoff runway 28 right.” Pilots performing touch and gos at uncontrolled airports should be flying their airplane to a positive rate of climb and cleaning it up, prior to fussing with announcing the obvious. When the pilot is good and ready to turn crosswind in the pattern, then they should certainly announce what they’re doing. I don’t think that there’s any reason to be pedantic about the meaning of “upwind,” as long as everyone gets it.
Great post! You hit nearly all of my own pet peeves. Some of my others are reading back too much information. Read back only the required clearance items and nothing more. When you get a vector for traffic, ATC doesn't need to hear the "vector for traffic" part.
@@rakin5649 Exactly!
It’s ATC that most often puts November in front of my call sign! I see this at busier class C airports, from ARTCC, and even class Ds like Henderson, NV where not all traffic is US registration. I’ve also used my call sign only to have ATC tell me to “say my full call sign.” I’m thinking that I just did! But they wanted to hear the November in front! My takeaway: use November for Charlie and Bravo class fields - leave it out at Deltas or untowered.
Sounds like it's a technique by some towers.
Do you happen to have a shorter tail number? Especially 3 long?
Wrong about the traffic pattern legs! There are 5. Don’t confuse Departure leg with Upwind. Upwind is the opposite side of the runway from Downwind.
At controlled airports, upwind is the initial leg you are flying. They might say "continue your upwind for traffic" for instance. Also, if you are going around, it happens on the upwind leg. You can read about it on page 168 of The Airplane Flying Handbook.
@@quinnjim my AFH doesn’t have page 168, but page 8-2 shows it to be called the Departure leg in FAA-H-8083-3C. I believe there’s been a recent AC that further defines the difference between Departure leg and Upwind. Some controllers still use the old verbiage out of habit. Does it make sense to use different leg names depending on whether the airport has a tower or not?
@@SaxPilot525 The FAA publication (AFH) says it's called different things depending on the situation.
when you say opposite, I hear you saying the right down wind
@@erickborling1302 opposite means the side of the runway opposite the published pattern. Whether it’s right or left is dependent upon the field, and is indicated on the sectional chart by the presence or absence of the letters RP.
Thanks, this helps us who don't fly into controlled airspace very often.
My home airport is uncontrolled and we have a grass strip crossing the main runway. Taxiing comms I think in this situation is needed.
I think I said "unless crossing a runway". You definitely want to report that.
There is even less to say if you are flying in controlled airspace with flight following. Upon handoff, they are anticipating you and already know your intentions, so you only need to make radio contact...
Usually true but maybe not when you’re doing something they wouldn’t expect. Example: Flying from airport A to B and you told controller #1 you’d first be detouring to overfly a location 20 miles away from your destination airport. If you don’t tell them that then they are likely to ask why you’re not on course. You get handed off to controller #2. There’s an excellent chance #2 didn’t get the message about the detour since that kind of thing isn’t part of a normal handoff. So - when radio traffic is slow - they will probably appreciate you letting them know so they don’t need to wonder/worry about you. Been there, done that a number of times and always got an appreciative response from the controller.
I get it, John - I don't think you're being condescending at all. I think as a society we should all strive toward perfection in everything, even if that might be impossible. The more things are allowed to slide (like grammar), the more they become the "norm" in future generations. I hate the modern way of thinking that everything needs to change just for the sake of change. There's something to be said for standards and traditions!
I see you've got a new addition to the fleet!! SWEEEET!! I'll have to back up and watch that video. 😎
Hope you and the family had a very Merry Christmas, and have a happy, healthy, Blessed and prosperous New Year!
Sinnes Ich stiī̆ple usæ bordar Saxọ̄̆nlī wordſ a'd grammar Ich waſ unablæ bihofþe reaede oth-the understanede thy new stylæ. Ich wish th' children todaī stiī̆ple usede exacÞ Saxọ̄̆nlī!
TL/DR - yeah without change we’d still be speaking like that.
“Usually JetBlue”😂😂😂
My home airport goes through cycles of bad habits. The field is non-towered and the latest craze is announcing "Line up and wait" . People... that's an ATC instruction used at controlled airports! Don't roll onto a runway at non-towered airport and plan to sit there- bad idea!
great point!
What I like to do is, while I am at the hold short line, as soon as I see a plane on final I like to announce that I am ready for departure 😂
What about "Last Call" when leaving uncontrolled field? I feel like it is better to just say "departing the area to the west".
I think you tell people where you are going before you take off and just stop making announcements after that. Everybody heard that you were going to be Westbound after departure. No need to give a "last call" IMO.
What about pilots using "no factor" when it is a controller only term.
That isn't really their call to make. Good point.
Great video. I agree with pretty much everything. I will say that stating full stop or touch and go can be very useful depending on the airport. My home airport, where I fly recreationally, it is often helpful to give that information. I am also happy when others give. it. When I fly professionally at other airports, it is a waste of bandwidth.
Right on! Way too much chatter on Unicom these days which is affecting flight safety. Here’s a couple of more needless radio calls: 1. “Cessna 123, 10 miles south, last call.” ( so what? No one in the traffic pattern should care. IF, you are 10 south leaving the area and someone else calls in 10 south inbound, by all means say something). 2. “ Cessna 123 radio check” ….“ Cessna 123 loud and clear”…..”Cessna 123, thank you.” This shows you are an amateur pilot and do not know anything about your equipment. When you listen to AWOS or hear other aircraft on your radio, your receiver is working ! Key the mic and look for the “TX” on the radio and listen for the side tone. You can even say “test” and hear yourself. If you have a second radio you can tune both to the same frequency and say “test”, checking both of them. Unless your radio was just worked on by the avionics shop, there is no reason to ask for a radio check.
@@ddwolfe11 Very good points. Our local airport has a feature where the AWOS will sound off on the CTAF if you click the mic 5 times. Really frustrating when it gets activated 3 times every minute. Completely locks up the frequency.
I had an instructor knit pick my radio calls over saying “miles” instead of just saying “5 north.” But then he would have me say “full stop.”
Definitely no left/right final... couldn't find that one anywhere in the books!
ba ha ha! I had heard it many times before. Wasn't picking on you!
Don't you love the transmissions that start with a high pitch voice and finish about 3 octaves lower so as to sound like a pro pilot? In all seriousness, I do add "negative ADSB" to my first call and also call downwind, base, and final at busy uncontrol field since I have the slowest plane in the pattern (Champ) without ADSB.
Since we are nitpicking how about starting every call enroute call with the center name as it’s unlikely the wrong center will answer
@@ps2727 That one can go either way. Just like we have call signs, Kansas City Center sometimes likes hearing their name.
@@ps2727 But they’ll correct you if you use the wrong identifier! Hence, years ago I adopted this procedure when being uncertain of which ARTCC facility I’m contacting; mumble a syllable of something unintelligible, then clearly articulate “Center,” followed by your ID and what you have to say. Works everytime. Thanks to ADS, CPDLC and electronic charts with easy access ball notes, it’s a less-practiced method these days.
65 years as pilot, military trained radio operator. Here is a short list: PLEASE, THANK YOU, (HAVE A NICE DAY. When changing frequencies, "OUT" is the correct response), COPY OR COPY THAT
(ROGER IS CORRECT it means I understand), GOOD MORNING, AFTERNOON, EVENING, GOOD NIGHT....all disallowed.
I agree with you in high traffic environments, but I think when things are quiet the friendly courtesies, while unnecessary, can enhance everyone’s day.
My polite sensibilities often get me saying "please" but it appears to be in general disuse without causing any friction. Is that what you were saying? You were not being entirely clear.
2:40 What’s worse is pilots (and flight instructors!!!) who report traffic “in sight” solely based on ADS-B. They never look out the window. This is the world we live in now.
They definitely shouldn't be doing that!
Good Job! Your video should be included in every Flight Review.
Don't forget, CTAF is most likely a shared frequency between multiple airports within radio coverage. Taylor your calls to the situation. If there are multiple aircraft in the pattern, more detail may be necessary. If there's nobody around, be more brief and save the radio space for the other guys.
Taxing calls are about situational awareness in multiple ways. If it's very busy on a frequency, I will forego a taxi call to allow The planes that are actually flying to have that space to speak. However, if there's only one taxi way, it's good to make a call because someone could be taxing in the other direction etc
It's really situationally dependent. If there is conflict, or bad visibility I can see it as useful. In a busy pattern with a lot of activity, taxiing calls should probably be kept to a minimum.
The one I hate the most actually happens all the time at my home airport. The control tower for some reason loves to transmit on both the tower and ground frequency simultaneously, and will issue long route clearances while you are waiting to call the Tower to either get clearance to enter the airspace, or worse yet, there have been times where I have been instructed to fly straight in, and report a four or 2 mile final. I get to the point where I need to make my radio call, and the Tower is issuing a long route clearance to an IFR aircraft that will soon be departing. Not only do I have to wait for him to issue the clearance, then I have to wait for the read back, any corrections for an inaccurate readback, and by the time they are done I have blown through my reporting point via a mile or more. Worse even still is one time I was actually reprimanded by the Tower for not making my call on time, and had to remind him that when I was at the point of making my call he was busy yapping on the radio with somebody else. It's not just pilots that use poor technique on the radio.
@@AV8R_1 They do that due to lack of staffing, or just during slow times. You don’t need two controllers if nobody is flying. It can be VERY irritating though.
Only slight disagreement with one point. While every airplane that is registered in the US does start with N, we are not exclusive to all the traffic in the US. Upon first contact with air traffic control you should state your full call sign, I believe the N is part of the call sign. Every transmission past the initial contact can and should be abbreviated to the last three numbers and letters of your call sign. There are aircraft out there with only 2 characters after the N. So leaving the N out there could create confusion.
I also said "North America" instead of "The U.S."
@ Happy New Year!
My airport has a blindspot if youre taxiing from the hangars. I like to announce taxi going to or from there because it prevents an awkward standoff if someone is about to taxi into the row im taxiing out from. Guess a different story than announcing taxi from the wide open ramp to fuel 100 feet away though lol
That makes perfect sense!
"Center this in Navajo 1783, squawking twelve hundred near Hagerstown, following I70 to intercept I81 up to Scranton, then I80. Looking for flight following." or "Center Southwest 231 out of eleven for fourteen, looking for ride reports and a shortcut to Providence, like to amend our final to three three zero"😂😂😂
121.5 in not 'kinda' the Emergency Frequency, it IS the Emergency Frequency!
Yep.
I love this video. We do get saltier in our old age, but for good reason. And it's not just because, "kids these days!" The more types I get, and the more OE I give, the saltier - yet patient - I get. A weird combo.
Part 2: Last call, and teardrop, should be added. AIM 4-1-9(g)(1) is your friend. ;) Keep up the good work, meow!
I fly at an airport with a busy college training program. More communication results in other pilots having better understanding of where you are and where to look for you, which ideally reduces the chance for a mid-air collision. Students practicing IFR in VMC need to ensure that all the VFR-only pilots understand their position, which takes a little more time on the frequency but definitely increases safety.
At this airport, "full stop" makes sense because you will be occupying the only taxi way, as well as the only access point to the ramp. The fuel pumps are also very close to this single entry point. It makes a difference in how to taxi toward or away from the runway. Additionally, there's a lot of movement on the ramp, so I prefer to know about as much of this movement as possible, to reduce the chance for a ground collision. I understand pet peeves but would rather err on the side of too much information, rather than not enough.
However, I absolutely agree that verbose transmissions, especially on 122.8, are pretty frustrating.
Too much talking means radio congestion, heterodynes and lost SA for everyone. I don't think you should be worried about a ground collision taxiing to the fuel pumps. Just look outside.
@@quinnjim We'll have to agree to disagree. Heterodynes last a moment. Collisions could last a lifetime.
The word “to” since it can be confused with the number ”2”. “Skyhawk 98V 1 thousand climbing to 2 thousand”. The correct phraseology is “…….1 thousand climbing 2 thousand”.
The word “for”, since it can be confused with the number “4”. “Skyhawk 98V 3 thousand for 2 thousand”. The correct phraseology is “…….. 3 thousand descending 2 thousand”.
Even Airline Pilots unknowingly screw this up all the time.
That's true. A famous crash happened when a controller said "descend two four hundred". The pilots descended....to FOUR HUNDRED FEET! They crashed into a hill.
Don't forget "last call"😂
That one seems new. Really weird.
By far the worst, most useless thing to say on the radio. I should start putting my order in next time I hear it.
Whenever I hear someone say “Last call”, I reply “No one cares about your last call”
@@PilotMikeR Good for you! Straighten out the weirdos.
I think "Last Call" is for posterity, just like in the "Pilot Debrief" videos.
How about upwind vs departure leg?
My problem with radio communications......pilots (mostly females) talking so fast on the radio who in the world can actually understand them. They sound like they are audtioning to be a FM radio commercial announcer that reads the fine print at the end of the commercial lol. I think this is a recent phenom with young people (in the last 20 years or so). Hilarious.
Yup. These are the same people that talk so fast face to face that it's like hearing gibberish.
Yes it's not a fast-talk contest. Speak at a normal rate and style with some melody so you're not a monotone (monotonal speaking is inherently unintelligible), use the standard phraseology.
Most of your suggestions are because their Instructor failed to teach them proper radio protocol! A good instructor is invaluable to a student pilot learning the importance of conducting themselves in a professional manner!
The turnover at flight schools has really hurt the instructor population. CFI's aren't staying around long enough to get all the experience they need, and nobody is mentoring these folks (at a lot of locations).
@@quinnjimagreed! I came back to teaching this past year, and it is absolutely crazy what these new instructors are or are not teaching.
Pilots, and people in general, are very bad at understanding that the most (only?) important part of communication is on the receiving end. The sender shouldn't say anything that is NOT important to the receiver, shouldn't leave out anything that IS important to the receiver, and should understand that the receiver is not privy to all of the little extra bits of unspoken context that are floating around in the sender's head.
"What I'm saying, is it useful? Could it be more useful if I said it differently? Could it be confusing or alarming if I say it this way? Does it take up a bunch of extra time that could be better used by others for useful communication?"
I try to keep these sorts of questions in my mind all the time and let them guide what I say and when I say it. Like everybody, I fail to varying degrees every time. But as I fly around I find it quite obvious that most people don't even consider how their communication is received. They're checking boxes, operating on rote.
Very good point!
I always include “November” in my callsign bc I only have a 4 digit registration (including the N) and ATC thinks I’m cutting it short all the time 😂. “Say again FULL callsign”
@@Pistolpete218 You 100% get a pass then!
I agree with all of those. Once heard an airliner call clear of the active in Chicago. Controller responded, I have 5 active runways you are going to have to be more specific, Hoss!
@@767driver Excellent point!
Good vid. Retired ATC and pilot.
Knowing what not to do is as important as knowing what to do. Thanks.
On a CTAF, it’s exceptionally rude for to make an unsolicited position report right on top of someone’s call who is thirty miles away from you. Wait a couple seconds for the traffic around them to respond. If you’re doing position reports thoughtfully, each call has an intended recipient. We aren’t just talking to hear ourselves talk. In fact, if there aren’t planes near you, maybe just shut up.
“aaaaaaand” “Last Call”
That's a good one.
Aaaaaaannnnnd... I had a FO put me on his no fly list because I told him to stop that malarkey - we were in NYC airspace
I used to do last call as a new pilot. I'm still newer..but have stopped that lol
White Skyhawk, yadda yadda yadda. They make white Cessnas ?? 😂
I can’t believe all the calls on guard seems like a lot of airliners
I noticed them more flying down South. A retired military guy told me a LOT of those calls are from young guys in the Navy and Airforce.
I agree with "most" of what your saying. I do find it a bit un professional to call out an entire airline by name because you heard a pilot step on someone on frequency a few times. So that means all 6000 pilots do the same thing? Im sure your airline is superior. Come on man you know that better than that. There are newbies at every airline, charter operator, military squadron, etc. Yes I agree that basic radio procedures and etiquette should already be known by the time you get to a Major, but I guarantee the same thing happens at your superior airline.
The number of times that traffic has been pointed out to me by ATC and I have them on ADS-B and still can’t find them is disturbing. I really wish that all I had to do was report them as visible on my avionics. That way I wouldn’t look like I needed a seeing eye dog. “Cub 1234, traffic ahead and to your right, 1 o’clock altitude indicates 1,500 (my altitude) report in sight. “Looking for traffic, No Joy, Cub 1234”. “Cub 1234 traffic ahead and to your right, 2 o’clock, a 747, report in sight.” Hmmmm. Me Thinking:“Don’t say it, Don’t say it, yeah, but it’s right there on the fis….SLAP!
“Thank you” to ATC “if available can we x” just request it. “ reaching the end we’ll be ready for takeoff”😂😂 “heading 180 assigned” just say heading 180. “can we take it all the way to the end?” The whole runway is there for a reason🙄you don’t have to ask permission, but ATC can “ask” for you to exit D yet you can say unable. “what do you need?”If he needs something he will tell you. “N5MJT 4,000 CLIMBING to 8,000” really! Leave out the obvious guys😂
Drop the “K” with airport ID’s.
Most flights schools now teach self announced taxi calls at uncontrolled fields
That doesn't make it right. It's a "technique", not required. If the frequency is busy and you block a more critical call being made by an aircraft in flight (or departing), you did more harm than good.
“Taking the active” at uncontrolled airports! So many people say this and it’s actually really dangerous at busy airports or airports with multiple runways. All the runways are “active” unless they are closed. Besides, it’s not nice to take it and not give it back haha.
Excellent point!
I fly an experimental aircraft so must identify as that upon initial contact…just that much more but required. Also, my flight instructor (and now I) , cringe ever time we hear “taking the active” at our non-towered airport. Any and all runways are active!
Last I checked, improper radio communications are a legally chargeable/finable offense. if improper radio communications causes harm, expect consequences.
There was a guy who had a minor problem. He was talking so much that another airplane had a more serious problem and couldn't get a word in. The over talkative pilot got in legal trouble.
Another favorite” Cessna, November 123XT !”
That's a good one. Very annoying.
First call on CTAF" Cessna 123 at the intersection of yackyity yack and I will be landing at podunk Airport and entering a left base for runway 36 and taxing to fuel for 55 gal of 100 ll gasoline, my oldest kid is a graduate from bla black black bla" How about short and to the point "Cessna 123 10 west at 5000 landing 36 podunk" pretty much every airport has normal arivals and pattern direction and you only need that info if you are doing something different.
I was hoping you fly the Decathlon more fun😂
And I am currently ……
Of course it’s current if you on the radio!
“Inbound full stop” has less syllables than “inbound for landing” so you’re wrong on that one
They always say "Inbound for a full stop", so it's longer. Not just about syllables. It's just kind of goofy (unless you are at a busy training airport where most people come back for touch and goes). Really not a big deal either way. I just think it sounds funny. To each his own.
Disagree with your take on taxi call at uncontrolled field, my field,has a mix of small and jet traffic, I always appreciate the calls on arrival or departure as it gives me a much better mental picture of what is ahead of me. Very common for jets to b departing amd landing on different runway than us prop guys they intersect! Just my thoughts
How about all the “meows” on guard ?
That was mentioned in the video.
Upwind, crosswind, downwind, base, final = 5
Mine (especially when its busy pattern): "South Valley Regional Airport Traffic.. Cessna 123 yada yada yada.. South Valley Regional Airport traffic"
Yeah no.
"South Valley Cessna 123 yada yada yada South Valley " 😅
One radio call that irritates fighter pilots is "I'm taking the shot!". That has never been said in the history of aerial warfare in the real world. Only actors who aren't pilots say that.
That's fine, but you DO occasionally say "I'm too close for missiles, switching to GUNS!".....right? It would just break my heart if that wasn't a thing.😀