Really impressive video. Former Master Tech with Mercedes Benz. I absolutely am impressed with the labs scope implementation and your ability to confirm and get to the root cause. Tig weld makes great sense. I happened to consider brazing. Since brazing might be more accessible than Tig for some maybe you can try it sometime. I happen to own one of these cars with this issue. 😊 won’t be this way for long.
When cranking I leave them connected, they won't come into play when just cranking and it lets me see the base timing alignment of the chain when just in its natural installed position. Afterwards I'll do start and run at idle and leave them connected still at that point to see any vvt adjustments if any.
neat seeing the scope and all. but a scan tool like an autel can just bring up the live readings and you will see which cam is out. you can just tap them in to place to get the engine light off and the engine running good again. The cause of this is failed intake cam gear (usually bank 1) that rattles due to internal failure and causes it to "hammer" the cam sensor reluctor wheel out of position. eventually, it will happen again until you replace that gear.
i must say thank you, M276 engine cam magnets out of sinc, sogkad to see someone tig tack button holds to secure the cam triggers in place, yes golden arm stainless welder myself but not the world class mechanic you are, thanks
Excellent work. Thank you. Just one question. Is there a video on how to setup that capture? I have XTool D8 scanner but not sure it would be able to do the capture that you are showing.
Brilliant video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us SHREWD DTech Engineering Sadel From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 06:39am Good Morning 🙏 🌄
Trying to find itself is called CAM SPACE, a term used by BERNIE THOMPSON, I am surprised that you did not also monitor injection, it might have been possible to see IF injection was hunting for the correct time prior to finding itself in the correct Cam Space and then allowing the engine to finally start. Thank you for all your videos/case studies, very informative diagnostics.
To advanced technicians it’s common knowledge that Ignition timing follows crankshaft position and fuel timing follow Camshaft position. When implausible results are found fuel management randomly fires injectors until it fires off substitution of Camshaft Data is applied and ran. So extended crank then running fine is pretty obvious to the skilled professional technicians. This goes back to SFI Fuel Injection inception. Adding in fuel injection signals would be moot as they are randomly firing outside of normal engine management.
I think I've had it for 2 years now and I absolutely love it! For someone like me it lets me test that much more per capture which helps cut down time because of how much I test. I won't ever go down to a 4 channel again.
Great job bro. I have a 2011 cl550. The first gen m278. I need your help. Where are you located. My car rattles on start up. But runs fine. I run a scan it gives no trouble codes. I want to catch it before it gets worse. Plz i need ur help. I live in PA.
Very well explained, I have work on some of those and knowing which one is reading incorrectly you might have access to the pulse plate through the sensor hole and can squeeze a screwdriver in the right position then twist it and move the plate until the code is gone. It is literally a 10 min job.
@@omarsa2020 The cam plate can move separately from the camshaft. He is saying you can move the plate with a flathead screw driver with the cam sensor removed. It may move out of range again through, not permanent fix
spots on chains will not return to the starting point all the time once spun, it takes several revolutions to return to the same starting point. I am not sure of your question but hope that helps
Thanks for responding to me. I am trying to fix my timing without taking the timing cover off. I did line up the tone wheel and cam adjuster laser mark at 40 degree tdc, and the timing chain is not at the starting point with yellow mark. Will that be enough?
does this apply to a 2019 c43 amg? i have a 2014 E 550 (m278) that I had to fix now im thinking of either buying a 2019 c43 or c300? what do you recommend?
it is very possible that those other engines use a similar style and type of trigger wheel on the camshafts so it's possible that those others might have the same issue at some point if do at all.
@DTEAuto Damn that's annoying I. Trying to avoid thst and buy a reliable benz but I can't seem to find that with the new engines, I think the last truly reliable engine was the m113
Superb explanation on this issue, Sadel. I’m curious if you are seeing these repeating Mercedes issues within a certain mileage range on these engines? For example, are these happening around 120,000 miles or are you seeing them sooner?
I have two GLK-350s with the M276 engine. My 2013 has 217,000 miles and I have never had an issue with the timing or codes. My 2014 has had this issue since 100k miles. We have driven the 2014 well over 100k miles with this issue and I am in the middle of tearing it apart now and putting in a new Right Intake adjuster and will be resetting the tone ring on the cam and tacking it with my TIG machine... So it is a crap shoot IMO.
it wasn't that hard actually, I just heated up the wheel with small torch than used a small punch and tapped it, to my surprised it moved pretty effortlessly to the point I had overshot the target point I was going for. Also keep in mind that it can move laterally, so I also had to tap on the back and get it perpendicular again.
@@DTEAutowe can imagine the amount of camshaft banging it took to move the tone-wheel ahead from good to bad - It's the VVT rattle that bangs intake camshafts ie. nothing interacts mechanically with tone-wheel. Camshaft act as a powerful "impact driver".
Every year, 100,000 Mercedes owners are blind-sided with a $4-$5000 repair and swear off Mercedes forever. It is hard to imagine how many more lifelong Mercedes fans there would be if MB simply spot-welded the triggers on 2 million sets of camshafts every year. What's worse is the fact that they are well-aware of this persistent problem and would rather save $2 per car while setting the owner up for a complete screw-job.
I’m working on a 2017 Benz with a 276 turbo. Had an intake cam timing code bank one. The cam sprocket was chattering when I rolled the engine over (rattle on start.) got a new cam sprocket, I’m setting the timing and it looks like the wheel slipped on the cam about 10-15 degrees. Laxer etch on plate to cam is off. Yellow links on chain are off the corresponding amount. (Link to laxer etch on gear, off 3 teeth) I’m going to try to bang it back into place, then maybe weld it. Let’s see how it goes What a stupid design. But brilliant work bud.
bank1 is always the bank where cyl.1 is located. Some Japanese straight 4Cyl. engines do split the 4Cyls in TWO BANKS to track two upstream Lambda sensors. 🙂
I didn't end up completely removing it, I just heated it up with a torch and tapped on it lightly with a screwdriver and small hammer to get it clocked correctly. It didn't take much force.
Thanks great job you just clear my head just did broken timing chain rails on 2018 glc300 2.o turbo i did everything by the book new rails new chain new tensioner i have to do head gasket because when front timing cover removed for new chain rails you have to lift the head in order to correctly install bottom chain cover or oil pan needs to drop when hand turn the crank all marks lines up correct but did not start only code i have poo1177 this video may end may brain storm and clear my head about job i did correct.
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Darn good work Sadel. Its a scope master class and mechanical ingenuity all in one packed lesson.Thanknyou forbthe shared knowledge mate.
Really impressive video. Former Master Tech with Mercedes Benz. I absolutely am impressed with the labs scope implementation and your ability to confirm and get to the root cause. Tig weld makes great sense. I happened to consider brazing. Since brazing might be more accessible than Tig for some maybe you can try it sometime. I happen to own one of these cars with this issue. 😊 won’t be this way for long.
I appreciate the comment coming from a MB master tech, and I hope you get yours sorted out. Thank you for watching!
Very professional analysis of the issue!! !!
Thank you my man , you are a great educator
You are very welcome
Great job. Some people are just gifted and made to do certain types of jobs. This was very interesting
really good explanation, just a question on your set up on the pico. are the oil solenoid vvt phaser connector disconnected on your test? many thanks
When cranking I leave them connected, they won't come into play when just cranking and it lets me see the base timing alignment of the chain when just in its natural installed position. Afterwards I'll do start and run at idle and leave them connected still at that point to see any vvt adjustments if any.
@@DTEAuto thanks for the reply and information. im still getting familliar on using pico, and confuse whats the best setup. cheers
Nice diag bro! Thank you!
thank you for watching
Nice, thanks. Your video was a very good find.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very good explanation, how did you spin the wheel to the correct position?
with heat and hammer and punch
neat seeing the scope and all. but a scan tool like an autel can just bring up the live readings and you will see which cam is out. you can just tap them in to place to get the engine light off and the engine running good again. The cause of this is failed intake cam gear (usually bank 1) that rattles due to internal failure and causes it to "hammer" the cam sensor reluctor wheel out of position. eventually, it will happen again until you replace that gear.
i must say thank you, M276 engine cam magnets out of sinc, sogkad to see someone tig tack button holds to secure the cam triggers in place, yes golden arm stainless welder myself but not the world class mechanic you are, thanks
Excellent work. Thank you. Just one question. Is there a video on how to setup that capture? I have XTool D8 scanner but not sure it would be able to do the capture that you are showing.
you would need a scope to capture the same as I did
Brilliant video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us
SHREWD DTech Engineering Sadel
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 06:39am Good Morning 🙏 🌄
Trying to find itself is called CAM SPACE, a term used by BERNIE THOMPSON, I am surprised that you did not also monitor injection, it might have been possible to see IF injection was hunting for the correct time prior to finding itself in the correct Cam Space and then allowing the engine to finally start. Thank you for all your videos/case studies, very informative diagnostics.
To advanced technicians it’s common knowledge that Ignition timing follows crankshaft position and fuel timing follow
Camshaft position. When implausible results are found fuel management randomly fires injectors until it fires off substitution of
Camshaft Data is applied and ran. So extended crank then running fine is pretty obvious to the skilled professional technicians. This goes back to SFI Fuel Injection inception. Adding in fuel injection signals would be moot as they are randomly firing outside of normal engine management.
great video , I thought pico only did 4 channel scopes , what scope are you using ?
Pico had had an 8 channel for a few years now. It does have lower acceptable input voltages as a downside.
it is the pico 4823 8 channel, and yes 50V max input
How long have you had the Pico 4823 ? How do you like it, besides the shared ground & 50V input?
I think I've had it for 2 years now and I absolutely love it! For someone like me it lets me test that much more per capture which helps cut down time because of how much I test. I won't ever go down to a 4 channel again.
@@DTEAuto thank you, that helps me a lot. I have been holding off on the purchase, hoping Pico would upgrade the 8-channel.
Great job bro. I have a 2011 cl550. The first gen m278. I need your help. Where are you located. My car rattles on start up. But runs fine. I run a scan it gives no trouble codes. I want to catch it before it gets worse. Plz i need ur help. I live in PA.
contact at DTEAuto@Gmail.com
Thanks for sharing, nice work.
Thanks for watching!
Very well explained, I have work on some of those and knowing which one is reading incorrectly you might have access to the pulse plate through the sensor hole and can squeeze a screwdriver in the right position then twist it and move the plate until the code is gone. It is literally a 10 min job.
Can you explain it to me ? I have the same problem
@@omarsa2020 The cam plate can move separately from the camshaft. He is saying you can move the plate with a flathead screw driver with the cam sensor removed. It may move out of range again through, not permanent fix
For some reason, the two yellow/orange dots on my secondary timing chain are not at the same spot. Did my chain skipped?
spots on chains will not return to the starting point all the time once spun, it takes several revolutions to return to the same starting point. I am not sure of your question but hope that helps
Thanks for responding to me. I am trying to fix my timing without taking the timing cover off. I did line up the tone wheel and cam adjuster laser mark at 40 degree tdc, and the timing chain is not at the starting point with yellow mark. Will that be enough?
does this apply to a 2019 c43 amg? i have a 2014 E 550 (m278) that I had to fix now im thinking of either buying a 2019 c43 or c300? what do you recommend?
it is very possible that those other engines use a similar style and type of trigger wheel on the camshafts so it's possible that those others might have the same issue at some point if do at all.
@DTEAuto Damn that's annoying I. Trying to avoid thst and buy a reliable benz but I can't seem to find that with the new engines, I think the last truly reliable engine was the m113
Superb explanation on this issue, Sadel. I’m curious if you are seeing these repeating Mercedes issues within a certain mileage range on these engines? For example, are these happening around 120,000 miles or are you seeing them sooner?
it's hard to say, I'm very bad of not paying attention on mileage in the beginning of the diag process , I need to get better at that
I have two GLK-350s with the M276 engine. My 2013 has 217,000 miles and I have never had an issue with the timing or codes. My 2014 has had this issue since 100k miles. We have driven the 2014 well over 100k miles with this issue and I am in the middle of tearing it apart now and putting in a new Right Intake adjuster and will be resetting the tone ring on the cam and tacking it with my TIG machine... So it is a crap shoot IMO.
How hard is it to rotate the toner ring back into position and how did you do it?
it wasn't that hard actually, I just heated up the wheel with small torch than used a small punch and tapped it, to my surprised it moved pretty effortlessly to the point I had overshot the target point I was going for. Also keep in mind that it can move laterally, so I also had to tap on the back and get it perpendicular again.
@@DTEAutowe can imagine the amount of camshaft banging it took to move the tone-wheel ahead from good to bad - It's the VVT rattle that bangs intake camshafts ie. nothing interacts mechanically with tone-wheel.
Camshaft act as a powerful "impact driver".
Every year, 100,000 Mercedes owners are blind-sided with a $4-$5000 repair and swear off Mercedes forever.
It is hard to imagine how many more lifelong Mercedes fans there would be if MB simply spot-welded the triggers on 2 million sets of camshafts every year.
What's worse is the fact that they are well-aware of this persistent problem and would rather save $2 per car while setting the owner up for a complete screw-job.
Thanks so much.
I’m working on a 2017 Benz with a 276 turbo. Had an intake cam timing code bank one. The cam sprocket was chattering when I rolled the engine over (rattle on start.) got a new cam sprocket, I’m setting the timing and it looks like the wheel slipped on the cam about 10-15 degrees. Laxer etch on plate to cam is off. Yellow links on chain are off the corresponding amount. (Link to laxer etch on gear, off 3 teeth)
I’m going to try to bang it back into place, then maybe weld it. Let’s see how it goes
What a stupid design. But brilliant work bud.
Thank you and hope it works out for you, it didn't take much force when I did mine.
After all job done and reset code how to you do reseting other part?
How many channels are available on that scope? 8?
correct, it has 8 channels
Boss ihave one question which is bank one in 4 cylinder engine please
4 cylinder engine only has one bank which is bank1
bank1 is always the bank where cyl.1 is located.
Some Japanese straight 4Cyl. engines do split the 4Cyls in TWO BANKS to track two upstream Lambda sensors.
🙂
Very interessting.i love pico-scope.thanks for sharing.perfect 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻.
the pico 8 channel scope has really helped me a ton once I got it
What scope are you using?
pico 4823, it's an 8 channel
EXELENTE 👌
Is that 8 channel pico scope ?
Yes it is the pico 4823
How do you remove the cam tone ring from camshaft?
I didn't end up completely removing it, I just heated it up with a torch and tapped on it lightly with a screwdriver and small hammer to get it clocked correctly. It didn't take much force.
Increíble.... 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
gracias!
Nice, how many channel scope are you using? :) Thanks as always!
it is the pico 8 channel
Thanks great job
you just clear my head just did broken timing chain rails on 2018 glc300 2.o turbo i did everything by the book new rails new chain new tensioner i have to do head gasket because when front timing cover removed for new chain rails you have to lift the head in order to correctly install bottom chain cover or oil pan needs to drop
when hand turn the crank all marks lines up correct but did not start only code i have poo1177 this video may end may brain storm and clear my head about job i did correct.
Ivan from PHAD will be proud. What happened to relative compression after the fix? It doesn't seem even.
the longer it cranked the smoother it got.
that's to be expected, the M276/8 piston rings tend to get stuck by significant amount of burned oil carbon.
Thank you very much
thank you for watching
Awesome 👏
Thanks !