Play Enlisted today using my link for a free bonus pack with soldiers, weapons, and more: playen.link/darkspace Insomniac's Spider-Man Series is a series that I love so much that I want it to be the best it can be. Unfortunately, I don't think these Physics are the best they can be. (They're perfect for arcade swinging.) But they didn't really change anything from last time- except for adding an optional slider that essentially just decreases the strengths of various aspects of their (already bad) swinging system. I'm not claiming to be absolutely right, but my opinion is that they should aim more toward physics simulation, like Spider-Man 2 (2004).
Umm bro I watched your video on improving the first game swinging I used some of your points In their feedback do you maybe have any more maybe I can get insomniac to hear it its not guaranteed though
Technically, a loop in a faithfully recreated physics system would still require a dive or at least a fall from an adequate height for it to work. In fact the only reason it could ever work the way it did without that prerequisite in Spider-Man 2 2004 in its otherwise realistic engine was because of the boost mechanic that let us delete real-world conservation of energy laws.
And I think that's perfectly acceptable, you should tweak your game mechanics to make them actually playable and fun, but when the game decides what you should do at every corner...
@@YOEL_44 I agree. My point is that the fact that Spider-Man 2 2023 requires a dive in order to enter loops shouldn't be held up as a point against it if "realism" is the metric by which we're judging.
@@DrEchoIt’s a problem when you can’t naturally do loops tho. He explained that in the vid. The loops have to be set up in engine by a button press. Your momentum has almost nothing to do with it.
@@zeyyyboggiee but it has to be the L3 dive or if you just fall and naturally dive you're not going to loop and you'll automatically let go of the web at the highest point
@@StuartLugsden I don't think he knew. If he did then he'd know how redundant bringing up Euphoria is, because that's not the simple solution he think it is. Also; *_"They can either create their own"_* And absolutely get sued by Take-Two, the same guys who will threaten teenagers with lawsuits for making a few RP Mods in GTA Online. *_(Though I think Insomniac should try anyway. It would be just the thing to get everyone against Rockstar, which is always good.)_* *_"Or ask Take-Two if they can use it."_* *That, **_is definitely_** not gonna happen.* That's not how these Corpos work. *They never share.* Why do you think we never see other games using WB's Nemesis System? Never improving on it?
This is the craziest, disingenuous, and/or misunderstood take I’ve heard about Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man’s 2 swinging combined with the wing suit is the most advanced video game technology we’ve ever had! And it’s pretty incredible! If Spider-Man 2 didn’t do it for you I would highly suggest you stick with the OG Spider-Man 2. While I understand your gameplay desire of it all being 100% physics based this would never work in actual gameplay practicality when you are going at such high speeds with so many obstacles in the way. A game has to use game rules. And I think Insomniac’s traversal in Spider-Man 2 has done an incredible job at giving you control and not let you see too much those game rules. But if you look for them they will be there! I you can say that about any game.
It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
@@hazelcrispJust because its easy doesn't mean the game holds your hand at all. Try doing those drone missions or chasing after a car, you still need to think about where you go
@@hazelcrispEasy to you. To some people that might be hard as hell to do, even with days of practice they still might struggle alot with the swinging on 0 swing assist. Not everybody is gonna be as good at the game as you. You do realize that right? People aren't God dang robots who can learn and master to do something in a matter of minutes. And everybody is gonna be different when It comes to skill at a game. Whether it be game combat. Traversal, puzzles, or anything else.
My guy you do realise that the original Spiderman 2 could get away with a lot of things due to how rudimentary the graphics and animations were, right? Making a fully physics based swinging system with this kind of graphical fidelity and detailed animation is an almost impossible task. The amount of animation variance and blending it would require is almost incomprehensible. And no, Euphoria alone can not handle or fix this. In fact, it would probably just make everything feel slow and sluggish like GTA 4 or RDR2 which is fitting for those games but not at all fitting for a Spiderman game. I agree that the swinging could still be better but saying it is the same or worse as Spiderman 2018 is simply not true. 0 swing assistance absolutely makes a difference and you can absolutely not swing across the map just holding R2 with it turned off. Realism for the sake of realism is not always good especially when you are playing a superhero game.
@@DarenKajiWolfIt's not really hardware limitation, it's a limitation in how engines and animation works. They would basically have to develop a system like Euphoria or heavily modify Euphoria specifically for use in a Spiderman game to make full physics viable behause I don't think anyone wants Spiderman to control like Arthur Morgan or Niko Bellic.
My guy do you realise that we are THREE ENTIRE CONSOLE GENERATIONS into the future from the PS2 days, and yet we're going backwards. Not to mention that the Insomniac games have a thousand times the budget that the PS2 game did. Being critical of the mindless swinging of this new game is 100% valid and called for.
Okay. This criticism is awful and here's why- The core problem with this video is the assumption that swinging being slightly more accessible = bad. But why is a game having a system that is much smoother to interact with and easier inherently bad? You use a completely nonsensical claim that racing games are fun because you are in control and it takes skill- but racing games are competitive multiplayer games about who can control their machine better. Spider-Man is a single-player, story-driven action-adventure game. The skill ceiling being higher, doesn't have ANY purpose to the greater design goals of the game. Just because games can be more complicated and skill-based, doesn't mean they always have to be. You constantly compare Spiderman 2 to the original Spiderman 2, and I'm sorry but just because certain features haven't been brought over doesn't mean that this game failed to provide a proper swinging experience. As someone who played both types of game, I can say the short list of things not included- are incredibly minor features that I either barely used- or were honestly jank. The only thing I can agree on is the web running when you hit the floor- but that also invalidates your argument that the game is “on rails” if you hit the ground and lose momentum, and you are in control of what angle and directions you chose to go, that's not arcade-like and simplified. That's what a swinging system Is and should be! “Spiderman's web breaking on its own is a failure-” Why? You can still hold on incredibly long, you get maybe a couple of seconds less of Spiderman awkwardly floating at a weird angle. You constantly say that “more realistic swinging makes a better game.” when let's be real here- both look and feel completely unrealistic. When Spiderman holds his web too long he looks like he's floating on the side of a building. He floats slowly, stopping in mid-air when in reality he should plummet and hit the side of the wall like a ton of bricks. The web wing argument feels basically like paper. As someone who plays Spiderman games, it always sucks to be in areas with low roofs because unless you just web zip you’ll have to stop swinging entirely. the roofs are too low to get a good angle to keep momentum. Web wings alleviate this issue by allowing you to glide, the wind allows you to get around every section of the city. you still have to swing and combine your tools to get to places faster. The web is only faster if you just care about getting to different districts and not playing the game. This is like saying fast travel invalidates swinging! It lets you get to certain out-of-the-way sections of the map better, it's only used in areas with roofs so low that swinging wouldn't be optimal anyway, and the comparison to Just Cause feels like such a reach because you know Just Cause has a ton of space in the air- whereas new york is dense with buildings and stuff to hit! It's like saying Counter-Strike is worse than Doom Eternal because it has a better combat system- no they are different games designed for different purposes. I’m not gonna rant about this forever, this video is filled with garbage but here is my ultimate point. The idea is that the decision to not make this game just Spiderman 2 for the PS2 is not because they are lazy. I think you have to be a pretty entitled person to make that argument. This game oozes effort, but because the swinging isn't exactly like that game you played as a kid- insomniac is lazy. That’s childish and shows a complete disregard for the complicated game they are making here. Wall crawling sucks as a result of the hyperrealistic buildings having way more complicated geometry. It's not some simple fix- this isn't a burger joint. It's a multi-million-dollar marvel of art and engineering. Having a system that automatically accounts for your failures and corrects them is harder to make- just saying that out loud should make it clear. There is the constant smugness that the swinging in this game is mindless, super easy and baby-proofed- which is just insecurity. Original Spider-Man 2 swinging, is still easy. Kids beat Spiderman 2, I beat Web of Shadows and loved doing tricks. It's not that hard. To be honest, I barely noticed assist was on when I played the first time, I noticed it more as I came back but the system worked amazingly. Spider-Man is a fantasy superhero game- these games never emphasized complex movement tech even if they had them as an option- because people wanna play a Spiderman game to feel Spiderman. It's only a d-measuring contest to you and a small section of people who want the game to be a remake of Spiderman 2 on PS2. But PS2 Spiderman was easier to make and for a considerably smaller audience than these new games are. Some of these criticisms are valid, but this video has this smug vibe I can't get behind. This system is not bad because people who don't want to worry about angles can enjoy the game now. Ifs a great system because more people can enjoy this game and experience Less of the weird jank of the old games. You aren't better than people because you enjoy a kids PS2 game. Grow up.
It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
@emmanuelakalusi3690 Cus the game isn't that great. I guess people have low standards and easily pleased by a system that looks good but not complex or depth
@@hazelcrisp Straight up lie. If you just press R2 and forward you’ll either go into a building or hit the ground. He literally kept swing assist on in this video because his point doesn’t work without it 😂
Some of the complains you made wouldn't occur if you turned off the swing assist though? I understand the intention of this video but some complaints felt like unnecessary nitpicking. Also, catering towards casual fans makes sense since, you know, it's a Spider-Man game.
You see I understand your view and the points you make but my only issue is, Insomniac Games *never* promised physics based realistic swinging therefor I cannot be upset at the arcade style mechanics. If they had promised realistic swinging and then didn't deliver, then yeah sure I'd be upset. But for what its worth, I think Insomniacs swinging mechanics are some of the best ever made in ANY traversal game. Another thing I wanna mention is Insomniac when presenting their first Spider-Man game back in 2017 did in fact say that they wanted their web-swinging to feel nonstop. As in nothing will stop your momentum. That's why there is seamless swinging to wallrun transitions and also why the game will help correct a mistake like if you were to hit a wall near the top, it would automatically adjust for you with an preset animation. Its to make you feel unstoppable while swinging and personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.
I completely agree. The improvements made only add more complexity with players now able to take more ownership over how they want to swing, maximising style or speed or both and in a beautiful presentation of NY. I think this system is the best for the widest player base, with new and veterans being able to gain something from it. I grew up playing SM2 as a kid and absolutely adored swinging in that game and I feel that insomniac whilst aren’t completely physics based are building a system with nuances and complexity for expression without removing that heroic edge and feel for the casual or ‘arcade’ gamer to appreciate
What even is this argument, just cause it was their creative decision doesn't mean it was a good one, or shouldn't fall under criticism just cause they wanted it that way. Not to mention that they *did* say that they wanted the swinging to be physics based.
@@radar4104they did say that, but the whole presentation where they said it was about why they didn't go with it and went with a more animation based system, which was much more successfull during playtesting.
@@CarnerioTostado I'm not talking about their presentations, I'm talking about this 3 minute video where they straight up market the game as having physics based swinging, which is just not true lol th-cam.com/video/X7_tCWcVvsw/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared&t=36 In the same video they also said that they wanted the system to have depth, which is also not true, they just wanted it to be accessible to the point of tedium. Boasting that they "perfected web swinging" by making it braindead is pretty absurd. And even if you ignore all of this, the argument that "they never said it'd have depth so it's ok" is wrong on so many levels
Oh that's right I remember that, it's a good feeling. I can imagine Insomniac's Spider-Man version of that. Skidding and sliding along the sides of buildings.
So I like a bit of criticism, it’s always warranted. However a few of your points are repeated often. It’s not as egregious as you make it out to be, the swinging they’ve designed is heavily animation based. It looks right because it feels right. The movie game on PS2 is heavy, fun to swing in? Sure but it’s aged. Now I get it’s a good thing to talk about how “auto pilot” the swinging can get but in reality, who swings like that? Just holding one button the whole time. Everyone is doing something. The wings I will agree are the most auto pilot, put the controller down and you’d get somewhere. But as a whole the game engages the player and wants them to do something so they can look cool and then feel cool once they figure out harder things. I pretty much fully agree with what you said at the end. There should’ve been more however they didn’t do everything they should’ve since they wanna try to keep it from becoming over complicated for those with accessibility issues considering they catered a lot of new settings towards that.
Counter-argument: These games are not made for the experts who practice these things over and over. They're made for the most casual of casuals who want to play a spider-man game and look cool. Did previous games do swinging better? Probably, but that was them putting extra effort into it that most people playing it aren't going to care about. (For example, do the webs need to stick to buildings? Not really. But the games that do are because the developers put extra effort that wasn't necessary into doing that.) You may think it's broken, but these games were not made for people like you. It's working as intended. Edit: I just want to clarify that it would be nice if insomniac added this stuff in, but it's not a requirement. Saying that it's a "problem" is ignoring the point of these games, which is to both appeal to a super wide audience and to make casuals look cool. You may not like it, but it's the truth. (Also about trayarch spider-man 2, the reason why that game has a lot of swinging features is because it was the first of it's kind so they put a lot of extra effort into it. Expecting that for every game is just going to leave you disappointed in everything spider-man.)
Did you even watch the video? It doesn’t take an expert to want to express movement and experience being Spider-Man BY YOURSELF. If games like apex thought like you did there wouldn’t be movement techniques or they would remove them all
So you say that a sequel to a well acclaimed game of a really big company, didn’t put the effort to upgrade the gameplay to make sure that casual and expert can play with the same enjoyment (a problem who was already in the first one) because that would need to much work… im not sure i agree with this one
@metalrex2480 I'm talking about spider-man games in general. To use as an example: Do the webs need to be attached to the buildings? Not really, but insomniac and the trayarch decided to put extra effort into it because to them, they felt it was necessary.
Argument is not really solid, what he means is that you can increase the range to include both casual and pro players, casual players praised the complexity yet natural feel of OG Spiderman 2, the ability to have almost anything you want to do whether you use it or not is what makes the game amazing.
“That game had ACTUAL physics” *shows clip of the most laughably busted PS2 physics possible lol. You’re not thinking about any of this practically. They have to allow the player to move through a MASSIVE map constantly rendering, so the less obstacles, the better. Also, while it may be fun to fuck around and break a physics system, from a quality, gameplay and artistic perspective, having the superhero move and act like a superhero instead of constantly fucking up slamming into walls is the better way to go. Sure they could have a “wall slamming active mode,” but as a default, this makes much more sense. Edit: It would be good for them to make it so, instead of clipping through the buildings, the web bent along side them, either bringing him into a wall run, or spinning him into a following web shot for a slight speed boost upon release though. 🤷♂️ 🕸
Your version of "better" is sply a mindless fanservice shitfest game which is what this game is. To say that the physics in spiderman 2 2004 are broken is a testimony of how little you understand. "The less obstacles the better" im sorry but that's just idiotic. "Have webs coil instead of clipping" that would be a physics based system if te webs are real and not just animated as coiling around. If theyre animated that way but they dont get any shorter, then it's just more useless cosmetic crap to fool mindless players. This game fooled many into thinling that it has any actual physics, because i keep being told to turn off assist to "make it more rrealistic". What youre dewcribing is exactly the issue,you thimk a good game is a game that makes you look cool, this is what a good game is to a mindless player. To anyone who wants to do tje actual swinging, this game is boring as hell after like 4 traversals.
@@Zakietos Yawwwwn, you made the same dumb point in 5 paragraphs. Go play a Souls game for pointless difficultly. It's a fucking super hero power fantasy, Sherlock and if you can't see how blatantly broken those 04 physics are, your eyes are as bad as your spelling and reasoning.
There‘s some things I agree and disagree with in this video. One thing I disagree with is your opinion on the wingsuit. You compared speed of wingsuit with the speed of swinging, but in your clip you were swinging by releasing your swings in height instead of releasing when being on the bottom of the swing. As you said releasing earlier will push your speed vertical distance while releasing later will push your horizontal height. I think by using this method you‘d eventually be as fast as with the wingsuit. Also I barely noticed anyone only use the wingsuit, I only see people mix between each other for more diversity or using the tunnels for height push, other than that they stay on swinging because it’s obviously more made more satisfying
Dude if I were you, I would play this game while turn off the swing assist if I don't want to be forced to release the web swing or preferred to have the swing mechanics more challenging just like the OG Spider-Man 2 game. Or maybe do a proper research next time before you even think about criticizing the game. And perhaps you shouldn't have to compare this game to that 19 years old game. There's a lot of shits that this game can do which the movie game couldn't do
I’m super thankful guys like him aren’t in charge of these games. His version of Spiderman web swinging will be so tedious. I will fast travel cause of how annoying it will be. & the majority of his complaints were also just weird like who wants to just hang on their web randomly or hang on a helicopter to go across the river. Every time he showed clips of Spiderman 2 (PS2) I was thankful Insominac didn’t go that route, it just looks lame
I’m satisfied with the swinging, would be dope if it was like the OG SM2 too tho, like a mix minus the assistance, get the best of both worlds that are realistic to achieve. The webwings are cool and yeah you can heavily depend on them but you don’t have to, it’s up to you how to use it, I use it to reach a building to swing from that’s just a bit too far and also to gain speed to resume swinging fast. They for sure got to add wall combat in the next game, I think that’d be dope and is very possible, like press X and SQUARE together near a wall and while you’re on it to enter wall combat and press it again anytime to exit wall combat or web strike a grounded or in flight enemy to exit, but of course we’d have to have certain enemies that are able to stick and fight on walls too for a good reason and they’d have to be more resistant to being pulled off the wall and being webbed to it, and they’d have to have an attack from the wall hitting you while you’re grounded. The enemies should be split, types that are always on the ground and types that can do both ground and wall combat, just so that they aren’t always retreating to the wall and forcing you to always fight on the wall with them after you knocked them off in wall combat or gadget hit. Idk, a group of smarter people that make games can figure it out better.
My issue with your criticism (and it is legitimate criticism, I just don't see anything you mention as a 'problem') is "Yeah...but who tho?" "You do 100 loops in Spider-Man 2 if you wanted to." "Yeah...but why tho? You're not exactly traversing." The moment from 5:36 where you're just hanging from the web trying to go slowly over the building to show the anti-grav-like effect likewise has me thinking "yeah...but who would actually do that?" Like you I've been playing Spider-Man games far before Spider-Man 2 (2004) and I still think Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is a good iteration.
I definitely feel like this fits into the “technically right, but does it matter?” Kind of criticism. Like, yeah, it doesn’t make sense to immediately turn from a dive into running up a wall, but he was also bit my a magic spider and fights a black goo monster from mars. I don’t think the goal here is to be physically accurate. More so, to gives the payer a sense of being a superhero and the free running allows you to “effortlessly” move because that’s how it would feel to Spider-Man. Would it be good to have a much more in-depth fix engine. Yes. Just like it would be great if BG3 doubles the party members you could get, or if Hi-Fi Rush had more levels, or if Tears of the Kingdoms map was twice as big. Ect.
No it isn't. If GTA 6 makes you able to drive through the entire map by just having one button pressed the whole time, I guarantee people would complain about it.
How the hell would you play a game with harder swinging??? You cant even turn off web assistance or get good clips of you playing with or without assistance ☠️
Deadass. Bro can’t even play the game on easy mode as is yet he wants it harder. All that yet the feature he loves the most is just sitting there hanging on a single web
Okay... after revisiting this video? I have now come to a conclusion that you made a pointless breakdown. 1. You were SPECIFICALLY talking about the 10% of Swing-Assist for your "critique." I don't care how it holds your hand at 10%... you shouldn't have even laid your EYES on that section anymore, but instead make a full blown CRITIQUE of 0% Swing-Assist and how they can improve it towards Spider-Man 3. From your last video? They've basically given you what you wanted at 0%! An advanced SWINGING option. At the moment? It's not quite there yet, becuase it still has that blatantly annoying handicap problem where the SYSTEM always tells the player when to let go. But 0% has delivered on some of the stuff that you've asked. For example: -more realistic physics taking control -being able to touch the ground -Delivering fall damage... hell, it even works while swinging - and faster speed and momentum You should've APPROACHED insomniac with the good things that have arrived with ( *0% Swing-Assist* ) first. After that, tell them the things that it hasn't achieved YET! For example... getting rid of that stupid handicap problem that always tells the player when to let go when they're at their highest arc while *"HOLDING"* R2. You should've nicely asked them in the video to get rid of that system in 0% Swing-Assist in Spider-Man 3, but make it EXCLUSIVE towards 10% Swing-Assist becuase that's where it freaking belongs. It doesn't take away their work, and delivers on what WE want. Instead, regarding the physics and good things of ( 0% Swing-Assist ), you blatantly started waffling up a long video about the problems of their 10% Swing Assist. *You know how unprofessional, ignorant, and stupid that crap was? You should've not talked about it at all if it's not your preferred playstyle.* You should've only focused your attention at 0%, dog. And as well, talking about mechanics that they could hopefully deliver in Spider-Man 3. For example: - Swing Boost - Directional Swinging - Dual Web-Swinging - Wall Zip - Upwards Zip - Wall Sliding (mechanic for wall running) -downwards wall running - Poll Swinging + Wall Bouncing (mechanics that'll work simultaneously on the same button). - Crawling Up The Web - A system that'll automatically make Spider-Man run across the ground when he swings -A system that'll automatically make Spider-Man *SLIDE* across the ground and walls upon impact (For Momentum and Speed reasons) -A System (for 0% Swing-Assist) that'll make Spider-Man run across the walls, while he holds on to his webs. - A System that'll physically bend the web-lines when they approach the corners of a building - And to improve the CORNER-TETHER mechanic to as well work forward. That type of stuff, sucka. Speaking upon 10% Swing-Assist, Web-Wings, and Water Sliding are completely irrelevant. You just sounded plain rude when it came to insomniac's work, instead of being logical on how to approach them as game developers. Freakin' ay, dog.
wall crawling has generally been pretty bad on most spider-man games. The only aspects I liked was crawling around open doorways, edges, and corners in TASM games and the horizontal wall running while swinging in the current game. We still lack a game that has good wall crawling when going vertically, but I'll give credit to web of shadows for concept of fighting on walls. Albeit unrealistic, it's kind of cool
I'll start by talking about what I agreed with. The wall crawling is bad in the Insomniac games, no complaints there. I also agree with you on a bunch of the stuff you'd have liked to see as well. The parkour animations don't really bother me that much, I prefer to see stylish maneuvering over just running next to an object, but I can agree that Insomniac should try to implement more precise animations so that we could do both in the next game. Onto problems I had with your video. First off, what is up with the wording of your script? I noticed several times that the phrasing of your script came across as subtly denigrating the perspective of people who like the mechanics in this game, through phrases and lines like "arcade swinging system for the casual player" or "some people may enjoy the way it plays when their path is controlled by the traversal syatem, but I just don't." Were you trying to make people who liked the mechanics angry enough to hate watch your video, or was it an attempt to sound more formal? That smug attitude carries across the video, what with all of the lionizing of Spider-Man 2 2004 and treating it like it's a perfect game. I could nitpick that the slingshot mechanic in Spider-Man 2 2004 or its boost mechanic don't make any sense "physics" wise, but I'll focus on consistent issues I've had with Spider-Man 2 2004 over the years. Namely webs attaching to buildings on the other side of the street from where I'm seinging throwing off my momentum and the generally clunky and unintuitive control layout. And I'm not comparing it to Insomniac's games, I've always preferred Ultimate Spider-Man's traversal system as far as older Spider-Man games go. Back to Spider-Man 2 PS5, I don't think you were trying to push the game's traversal system very hard. Your footage looks so barebones and basic, I was moving faster within seconds of the game starting. I don't think I saw you use the point launch mechanic once in your video, and you only used the loop and the corner tether when talking about them. Try combining the base web swining with point launches, corner tethers, loops, going in-between gliding and swinging, the air boosts, and tricks all while trying to maintain top speed. I won't try to argue it's harder than Spider-Man 2 2004, but it has a higher skill ceiling than you're giving it credit for. You also act like the recovery animations don't cause you to lose speed, that feels like a punishment to me. The top speed is also a lot more than "slightly faster," I've timed myself swinging from one end to Manhattan to the other in Spider-Man PS4 and Spider-Man 2 PS5 and shaved almost a minute off. Trying to maintain that speed really shows you how much the recovery animations do actually slow you down. Your criticism of the surfing mechanic also seemed hypocritical, as you were criticizing Spider-Man 2 PS5 for not letting you rest on the wall while on a web for limiting your freedom, but Spider-Man 2 PS5 having surfing and wingsuit mechanics to let you cross the water (expanding your freedom of movement) is bad because it's not isolating? That doesn't make any sense to me. You also absolutely lied about the air tunnels. Leaving them is dirt easy and I saw at least one clip that would have seen you leaving the air tunnel if you hadn't cut it right as you were. They also only appear if you use spider sense or are travelling through them, so "distracting looking" is also not really true either. I won't disagree with the wing suit feeling on the weightless and rigid side, but I also don't think you were being fair with the Just Cause 3 comparison. Just Cause 3's map has a lot of open space on account of being set in a series of tropical islands. Spider-Man 2 PS5 is set is a sprawling, densely packed city. If the same gliding physics were used, it would be a bordelrine unusable mechanic, especially since I think Insomniac was trying to make it easy to switch between web swinging and gliding. Overall, while you had some good points, this video seemed extremely disingenuous. I don't think you tried very hard with the web swinging, and the smug, condescending tone just made that all the more unbearable. Wanting a system more like Spider-Man 2 2004 is fine, but at least be fair.
a harsh critique but a fair one. i wonder how movement would feel if spidey 3 has fully physics based swinging? i feel like currently there is a happy medium.
Fair my ass... bro kept on ragging at 10% swing assist when he could just turn it off. Donkey behavior, bruh. Yes, there IS better physics when you Swing-Assist to 0%.
To be fair, shutting off all the web assist features definitely makes it slightly more difficult to avoid stuff. Actually I feel almost completely in control half the time... especially when I crash. I do wish that impact could feel more like crashing into something though... its somewhat anticlimactic. Anyway, personally, I feel you actually have to think about distance and angle with no assist. But I agree, it could be better.
@@danieleesposito7784but the guy in the video isn’t??? he’s playing the game with full assist and is web swinging at like 3% of its full capacity cmon now 🤦♂️
I"m so glad someone is calling this out. It's so frustrating to love a game, knowing you could love it so much more. Skill-based traversal will always beat casual and presentation based traversal. It's why Infamous came out on top when compared to Prototype back in the day.
Keep copeing yall. For all the things you dont like and think got worse others enjoy a lot and think are great. Being picky does nothing. What's the point of this video? Telling people the game could be better? Yeah ofcourse it can. So can every game to exist. Insomniac isnt going to go back and change it so why bother? To stir controversy and gain veiws? Even if thats not your intention that's what it looks like. You keep bringing up the same exact points. I'm not saying you can't have opinions or state them but you also shouldn't say the same thing again and again you loose the meaning and point its practically beating a dead horse. At this point your flat out annoying. I dont hate or even dislike your criticism I agree with your points but when repeating yourself and restating the same things for 22 minutes it becomes worthless. Thats all I wanted to say I hope you all have a wonderful day.
I agree with you but the wing suit argument i found kind of dumb. If you don't like the wind tunnels just don't use them thats what I do, I only use the updrafts. This game is a superhero power fantasy while I agree with you that I want to see more difficult traversal I doubt that's what the majority of players want and that's pretty important to consider. If it is the case the majority of players don't want more difficult web swinging insomniac making it harder despite what the majority wants it would be relatively idiotic
Everything he said about the wingsuit is not dumb. It’s absolutely facts. Spider-Man swings, he doesn’t fly. They shouldn’t have enabled Spider-Man to fly in this game , just glide
@@calebmcclure3893 But i mean if you want to look at it like that he isn't flying he's still gliding he's just getting pushed by the wind. Listen i agree it 's stupid theres such highly pressurized pockets of wind constantly flowing through the city but he isn't flying and again just don't hit triangle when you're swinging Its a feature you don't need to interact with and if you don't use the web wings you wont see the annoying aI from the tunnels. How does it affect how you think is best to play the game when it's a system you are only forced to use 3 times in the story and can just actively ignore for the rest of the game?
I never understood why this game appealed to many people, I understand though that it provides an overall nice experience within the spidermen domain. But people going so crazy over it? I don’t get it. To me as a player, I fully agree with you, crucial aspects need to be crafted to the little details such as spiderman’s webs, what is spiderman without his webs and swinging? That needs to be almost perfected but from what I’m seeing, it is not even mastered yet. If Rockstar developed it, I can only imagine how detailed it would be, I’d imagine they’d let you create complex and creative combinations with the webs. Those webs should be a weapon, a mens of transportation and a crafting material, why can’t I aim where I wish to shoot a string, connect two things to create scenarios during a fight, or hold on to something I don’t want getting away or even linking webbings between different structures, creating nets? The exciting stuff are automated, more like 70% cinematic, 30% gameplay.
It feels like you are playing a completely different game than me, ive played the whole game with swing asissts off and ive messed up a ton, especially at the start of the game i kept hitting the floor and dying. But by the end of my playthrough I mastered the swinging with assists and i still feel like i can get better
8:44 forgot the name of it but the nvidia animation thing with the ai I think while would be nice in some aspects, it would take more space and take more away from the animators. Animators need practice with different things like environment interaction and movement transitions, but what would they apply that to if AI is actively adapting to the environment while the player is playing? I guess cutscenes would work but I think we would need more of them (which I wouldn’t mind at all)
A lot of his issues boil down to skill issue and not bothering to check his settings. Swing assist is optional, and those animations halt your momentum to a crawl. That IS the punishment. His point about the rubber bands and not touching the controller doesn't make sense either. The gameplay looks like ass. The point of swinging is to build up speed and look stylish. All of the swinging in the video is amateurish at best.
The reason it feels handholdy is because your only using one move... Your meant to be diving, using spider-jump and spider-dash, doing air tricks, using web wings, corner tethering, point launching, wall running, web zips, slingshot launching, charge jumping, using updrafts, going through wind tunnels, surfing, probably more stuff I'm forgetting
But what's the point if the game doesn't make me need to use them. When most can press r2 and X. It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
@@hazelcrisp It makes you use them to go fast? Like if you spend money on a video game aren't you gonna wanna get the most out of it? Only pressing R2 and X is probably the slowest way to go somewhere besides walking
@@hazelcrisp your missing the entire point. yes, you can do that and it'll do what you need, but are you going to be engaged? no. so mix it up and include some of the unlockable abilities, turn off swinging assist and turn on fall damage
He’s making int seem as if running into a building doesn’t ruin your momentum and speed or as if getting enough momentum doesn’t completely change how you interact with your surroundings. It’s as he has an agenda to push and doesn’t actual care what the actual gameplay is so he can push said agenda.
Good video, but I think the term "arcade" is significantly misused here. "Arcade" games would generally strive to give you the best learning curve possible, one that encourages you to get better at the game and get a grasp of its controls in a proper simulation, the opposite of automating everything like Insomniac does. But yea, in the end, as long as they prioritize accessibility over depth, they're never gonna make a swinging system that promotes freedom.
They just want the game to be more accessible. The old Spider-Man 2 had a learning curve with swinging. I was actually really good at it, but I imagine most plp would not be. I think keeping the stream line swinging with the OPTION of advanced swinging would've been great.
I think they did good with the goal they had in this game with the speed and the new mechanics I feel they can still improve a lot but it would be nice
People are so lame! The level of detail you all want in the swinging is like saying “why cant i control my character eye blinks or bresthing or heart beats”… YES im being overly exaggerated to make a point. The swinging looks and feels great just enjoy the game and stop crying already
the one thing i wanted was to have at least the option in the menu to turn on swinging like TASM2 the game where you have to use L2 and R2 this would give the game a more realistic feel like you're actually making decisions
Car surfing and grinding would've so awesome, grinding even appears in the first scene with the advance suit never to be seen in actual gameplay ever to this very day.
This is like arguing that the track and tires in a racing game have too perfect texture and grip and the engine never blows if you push the car too hard
How I miss the days of playing the good Spider-Man 2 in my childhood. Now they got everything wrong in Spider-Man PS4, Miles and 2. If they were gonna just make everything garbage in the new games the least they could do is at LEAST have a fun and good swinging system. Spider-Man 2 factually remains the best Spider-Man game ever along with one of the best games ever. GameCube lover here. Shattered Dimensions is also a good pick for best Spidey game ever too, though. As long as it's not utter garbage, no one's completely brainless. Spider-Man 2, YES!
This is the single worst video I have ever watched in my entire life I have never seen a worst video this video made me feel ten times dumber let me be honest the og spiderman 2 is not as good as the ps5 version no matter how much nostalgia comes with the first one you can do way more with the traversal,fighting, and air tricks in the new then you ever could with the old
You've talked about Euphoria Physics as a possible improvement. I have an issue with that: it makes different games look the same. It's very good looking, but also easily recognizable, while hand made / motion captured animations are different in every game
He literally showed the zero swing assist in the video..? and talked about it at length? also, i tried it on zero and it was a *challenge* to hit a wall or to hit the ground or take damage. this game really does play itself for you.
@@Null._ I swear I tried showing my friend. I said "watch this" and then proceeded to try intentionally messing up my swings and hit a wall for 5 minutes to show him the new damage feature and got nothing. I could be mistaken, but I don't think it's even possible to slam into a wall in this game. Am i wrong? And if you ask me that's far too handholdy for a *spider-man* game. Especially for a supposed "zero assist" feature. One that will still not even let you literally "swing" back and forth. Which should be the most basic benchmark of any spider-man game's swinging physics. Can you actually "swing" with them? 👀
You always talk about great swinging mechanics in older spidey games but i am just wondering on why you actively avoid Web of Shadows in this topic. Because it in my opinion has the most freedom in its web-slinging system, from the various moves it provides, to the absolute bonker speeds it allows you to reach to without any cap if you really get good in it.
And also, you can run along the ground while swinging, climb your webs while swinging, it had good web physics. That game is basically what you get if you blend all the good features of other spiderman games
@@TR58699 yup Wall grind, 360°wall running, upward and downward wall sliding (which preserve momentum), wall zip 360° (increase, and also preserve momentum from a wall run), Wall slide jump (from either the edge of a building for maximum height, or while sliding to directly transition into a swing), wall holds (to quickly adjust directions while swinging into a wall without transitioning into a wall run, and it also preserves momentum of done in quick succession), web zip up (to quickly gain height), physics based swinging (carry momentum that continuously increases speed at mid section releases, and gives height accordingly during high section releases depending on speed and release timing), pole swinging (which also preserves momentum if done in quick succession), web climbing (which provides base max height without resorting to momentum), regular web zips (which are pretty useless in most situations but provide a smooth way to quickly scale over a building rooftop without resorting to manually walking off the edge). And all of this is button sensitive. Web of Shadows pretty much provides the spectacle and ease of use of Insomniac's swinging without sacrificing player control.
@@kimetsunoacademia3528you forgot how web of shadows webs don't attach to buildings half the time lol along with other physics breaking quirks that game never was the pinnacle of traversal, the only noteworthy thing it did was allow you to go extremely fast
@@Bruzewane oh FK off with your webs attach to buildings bs. Half the time I barely even look, and I won't deny the game is janky, but its a goddamn 2008 early gen PS 3 game, cut it some slack, even the likes of Arkham asylum and Infamous have jank on a similar level to web of shadows, but people don't use that as a complaint to detract from their overall enjoyment do they? You can't just disregard superior gameplay mechanics just because it does not "attach to buildings". I am sick of this bs, argument.
This whole video contradicts itself strictly off of him showing only clips with Swing assist on. To sit here and say it’s not physics based and it holds your hand to much proves you have never played it without swing assist on. This is such a bad video lol.
Although the physics in the 2004 Spider-Man game were cool I think people just forget that it isn't nearly as fun to play compared to some Spider-Man games we got later (including the Insomniac ones). The game now is dated in several aspects and the swinging overall just feels stiffy to play even if you can do some cool things with the physics. Insomniac's SM games may not be the ones with fully physics-based swinging, but they are the best middle ground in terms of actual fun and style with some kind of realism.
@@igorbrandao6735 insomniac games have the weight, web of shadows has the control and angles, ultimate has web bending, spider man 2 and spider man 3 have the best wall running, tasm has webrush and spider man 3 has a quick webzip, all make perfect traversal if combined in my opinion.
thats why you'd web zip in the direction you want to go, you would predominantly be moving forward with each swing though. And if they added the ability to climb webs like in ultimate spider-man, that would also help with having more control of your swinging
Again if you do that, it takes away the player's freedom of expression. The system we have now also does that. We are asking for a middle ground. Just don't take everything to the extreme. Whether it be realism or hand holding. Your comment is very disingenuous, acting like you don't know what the guy wants. You know he wants a swinging system similar to SM2 on PS2. You know how that works but still you typed this shitty take thinking that this is your Dr House moment where you show the guy opposing you the flaw in their beliefs. But to have a moment like House you actually have to be as smart as House. Which you, clearly, are not even close to.
Something that the lead developer of Spider-Man 2 (the 2004 one) explained in an interview, how they traded that piece of realism for a better swinging experience.
I think you'll just whining because you're blind by nostalgia of a game that's from 2004 times have changed and Spider-Man games have a evolved true insomniacs web swing isn't perfect but I want you to think maybe you're being blinded by nostalgia for an Titan movie game that was released so long ago that the only reason it's kept alive is because of whiny people like you who can't get past their nostalgia glasses
This "essay" reminds me of the ign reviewers who sucked ass at DMC and docked points for the bad music without realizing the music only picks up when you're doing good. I guess rent was due cause why else would you just lie for 21 minutes
For real... like. Bro's coming at the problems at 10% Swing-Assist instead of giving GENUINE feedback for 0% Swing-Assist. Bro was just... nagging for no reason.
Wow this guy is really bad at the game and must play all games on easy mode. I bet he even plays racing games with assist mode on so it plays the game for him
Just the 2 cents of an engineer with a degree in physics. Nobody would want a 100% or even 50% physics base swing system. That really would kill the fantasy of playing as Spider-Man.
Yeah, I mean do people think that Toby 2 had accurate physics? To start with you can change your trajectory midair without a source of propulsion, you can artificially boost the speed of your swings with skills from the spidey store, you can double jump and they had to increase gravity by a factor of 10 so you could pick up enough speed with your swings.
this video is just misinformation and misleading. theres a swing assist option if you want harder swinging, in most of these clips your making the game look worse on purpose. like in the wind tunnel complaint you said you can’t leave them and it fights you but if you play the game normally yk thats not true😭, also when you run into something you still lose momentum. you talk about how the movie tie in game is the gold standard but pretty much every feature you mention is the same if not improved on. like i said earlier when you run into something you play and animation of you going over it but you still lose most your speed. the movie tie in game did the same thing but instead you just float up and the whole wingsuit section looks and sounds like a skill issue and nobody makes you use the wings. theres tons of other mis information in this video but thats the most obvious, don’t listen to this dude if your thinking about purchasing
@@krud2837 It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
Tell 'em streight, brother... but here's what insomniac most definitely needs to improve on for 0% Swing-Assist. - Remove the "ASSIST" feature that keeps cutting players off from their swing whenever they reach a high arc - And make the physics engine to go a complete 360° to achieve a physical Loop de Loop based upon speed and momentum Do that? It's perfect.
@@krud2837 Bro was either in his feelings when he saw 10% Swing-Assist! Or his rent was due. Bro was just speaking... unprofessionaly, and insultingly. What an absolute donkey 🫏.
This video all feels like nitpicking tbh… We shouldn’t need a super insanely precise swinging mechanic in a casual single player Spider-Man game in 2023. People just want to have fun and enjoy themselves. The game works and is a critical success. Nobody really cares about any of these points.
Play Enlisted today using my link for a free bonus pack with soldiers, weapons, and more:
playen.link/darkspace
Insomniac's Spider-Man Series is a series that I love so much that I want it to be the best it can be. Unfortunately, I don't think these Physics are the best they can be. (They're perfect for arcade swinging.) But they didn't really change anything from last time- except for adding an optional slider that essentially just decreases the strengths of various aspects of their (already bad) swinging system. I'm not claiming to be absolutely right, but my opinion is that they should aim more toward physics simulation, like Spider-Man 2 (2004).
s
enlisted is my favourite ww2 game tbh best mix of milsim arcade ive ever seen in any ww2 fps
Umm bro I watched your video on improving the first game swinging I used some of your points In their feedback do you maybe have any more maybe I can get insomniac to hear it its not guaranteed though
Im sure you've never once hung upside down from a swing without L2, sad you're missing out on animations in the game xD
Ok.
Technically, a loop in a faithfully recreated physics system would still require a dive or at least a fall from an adequate height for it to work. In fact the only reason it could ever work the way it did without that prerequisite in Spider-Man 2 2004 in its otherwise realistic engine was because of the boost mechanic that let us delete real-world conservation of energy laws.
And I think that's perfectly acceptable, you should tweak your game mechanics to make them actually playable and fun, but when the game decides what you should do at every corner...
@@YOEL_44 I agree. My point is that the fact that Spider-Man 2 2023 requires a dive in order to enter loops shouldn't be held up as a point against it if "realism" is the metric by which we're judging.
@@DrEchoIt’s a problem when you can’t naturally do loops tho. He explained that in the vid. The loops have to be set up in engine by a button press. Your momentum has almost nothing to do with it.
@@Bwoodlyyyour momentum is in the dive?
@@zeyyyboggiee but it has to be the L3 dive or if you just fall and naturally dive you're not going to loop and you'll automatically let go of the web at the highest point
Euphoria and NaturalMotion are owned by Take Two, and it's no longer available for licensing. So, in effect, only Rockstar can use it.
that sucks
I had a feeling this guy didn't do his research on that. It isn't common tech after all.
@@jazzy_burrito He dose know that as he mentioned it in another video. They can either create their own or ask Take 2 if they can use it.
@@jazzy_burrito I mean it's not like Insomniac can't develop their own method. It's a lot of work sure but that's just the nature of game dev.
@@StuartLugsden I don't think he knew. If he did then he'd know how redundant bringing up Euphoria is, because that's not the simple solution he think it is.
Also;
*_"They can either create their own"_*
And absolutely get sued by Take-Two, the same guys who will threaten teenagers with lawsuits for making a few RP Mods in GTA Online. *_(Though I think Insomniac should try anyway. It would be just the thing to get everyone against Rockstar, which is always good.)_*
*_"Or ask Take-Two if they can use it."_*
*That, **_is definitely_** not gonna happen.* That's not how these Corpos work. *They never share.*
Why do you think we never see other games using WB's Nemesis System? Never improving on it?
God Awful Gameplay and Video. If you're gonna lie atleast back it up
50% of this video is just skill issue
The other 50% is just disingenuous and dumb
Exactly
Every clip you played when swinging was you hitting something and loses momentum clearly not a review 🙄
This is the craziest, disingenuous, and/or misunderstood take I’ve heard about Insomniac’s Spider-Man 2.
Spider-Man’s 2 swinging combined with the wing suit is the most advanced video game technology we’ve ever had! And it’s pretty incredible!
If Spider-Man 2 didn’t do it for you I would highly suggest you stick with the OG Spider-Man 2.
While I understand your gameplay desire of it all being 100% physics based this would never work in actual gameplay practicality when you are going at such high speeds with so many obstacles in the way. A game has to use game rules. And I think Insomniac’s traversal in Spider-Man 2 has done an incredible job at giving you control and not let you see too much those game rules. But if you look for them they will be there! I you can say that about any game.
It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
@@hazelcrispJust because its easy doesn't mean the game holds your hand at all. Try doing those drone missions or chasing after a car, you still need to think about where you go
@@BlackJacked I have done. And they were easy...
@@hazelcrispEasy to you. To some people that might be hard as hell to do, even with days of practice they still might struggle alot with the swinging on 0 swing assist. Not everybody is gonna be as good at the game as you. You do realize that right? People aren't God dang robots who can learn and master to do something in a matter of minutes. And everybody is gonna be different when It comes to skill at a game. Whether it be game combat. Traversal, puzzles, or anything else.
you seem a bit misinformed on some matters in play here...
Basically, you want a "hardcore and realistic, just for real fans" game instead of a... superhero game.
ikr like just cause im a real fan doesnt mean i want to have my webs sling me into a wall
My guy you do realise that the original Spiderman 2 could get away with a lot of things due to how rudimentary the graphics and animations were, right?
Making a fully physics based swinging system with this kind of graphical fidelity and detailed animation is an almost impossible task. The amount of animation variance and blending it would require is almost incomprehensible. And no, Euphoria alone can not handle or fix this. In fact, it would probably just make everything feel slow and sluggish like GTA 4 or RDR2 which is fitting for those games but not at all fitting for a Spiderman game.
I agree that the swinging could still be better but saying it is the same or worse as Spiderman 2018 is simply not true. 0 swing assistance absolutely makes a difference and you can absolutely not swing across the map just holding R2 with it turned off. Realism for the sake of realism is not always good especially when you are playing a superhero game.
🤡
PS5 bro... We are not talking about ps3 or an Indie...
@@DarenKajiWolfIt's not really hardware limitation, it's a limitation in how engines and animation works. They would basically have to develop a system like Euphoria or heavily modify Euphoria specifically for use in a Spiderman game to make full physics viable behause I don't think anyone wants Spiderman to control like Arthur Morgan or Niko Bellic.
It's far easier said then done
My guy do you realise that we are THREE ENTIRE CONSOLE GENERATIONS into the future from the PS2 days, and yet we're going backwards. Not to mention that the Insomniac games have a thousand times the budget that the PS2 game did. Being critical of the mindless swinging of this new game is 100% valid and called for.
the biggest thing I got from this video is WHY THE FUCK DOES THAT MATTER?
That's what I'm saying.
Okay. This criticism is awful and here's why-
The core problem with this video is the assumption that swinging being slightly more accessible = bad. But why is a game having a system that is much smoother to interact with and easier inherently bad? You use a completely nonsensical claim that racing games are fun because you are in control and it takes skill- but racing games are competitive multiplayer games about who can control their machine better. Spider-Man is a single-player, story-driven action-adventure game. The skill ceiling being higher, doesn't have ANY purpose to the greater design goals of the game. Just because games can be more complicated and skill-based, doesn't mean they always have to be.
You constantly compare Spiderman 2 to the original Spiderman 2, and I'm sorry but just because certain features haven't been brought over doesn't mean that this game failed to provide a proper swinging experience.
As someone who played both types of game, I can say the short list of things not included- are incredibly minor features that I either barely used- or were honestly jank. The only thing I can agree on is the web running when you hit the floor- but that also invalidates your argument that the game is “on rails” if you hit the ground and lose momentum, and you are in control of what angle and directions you chose to go, that's not arcade-like and simplified. That's what a swinging system Is and should be!
“Spiderman's web breaking on its own is a failure-” Why? You can still hold on incredibly long, you get maybe a couple of seconds less of Spiderman awkwardly floating at a weird angle. You constantly say that “more realistic swinging makes a better game.” when let's be real here- both look and feel completely unrealistic. When Spiderman holds his web too long he looks like he's floating on the side of a building. He floats slowly, stopping in mid-air when in reality he should plummet and hit the side of the wall like a ton of bricks.
The web wing argument feels basically like paper. As someone who plays Spiderman games, it always sucks to be in areas with low roofs because unless you just web zip you’ll have to stop swinging entirely. the roofs are too low to get a good angle to keep momentum.
Web wings alleviate this issue by allowing you to glide, the wind allows you to get around every section of the city. you still have to swing and combine your tools to get to places faster. The web is only faster if you just care about getting to different districts and not playing the game. This is like saying fast travel invalidates swinging! It lets you get to certain out-of-the-way sections of the map better, it's only used in areas with roofs so low that swinging wouldn't be optimal anyway, and the comparison to Just Cause feels like such a reach because you know Just Cause has a ton of space in the air- whereas new york is dense with buildings and stuff to hit! It's like saying Counter-Strike is worse than Doom Eternal because it has a better combat system- no they are different games designed for different purposes.
I’m not gonna rant about this forever, this video is filled with garbage but here is my ultimate point. The idea is that the decision to not make this game just Spiderman 2 for the PS2 is not because they are lazy. I think you have to be a pretty entitled person to make that argument. This game oozes effort, but because the swinging isn't exactly like that game you played as a kid- insomniac is lazy. That’s childish and shows a complete disregard for the complicated game they are making here. Wall crawling sucks as a result of the hyperrealistic buildings having way more complicated geometry. It's not some simple fix- this isn't a burger joint. It's a multi-million-dollar marvel of art and engineering. Having a system that automatically accounts for your failures and corrects them is harder to make- just saying that out loud should make it clear. There is the constant smugness that the swinging in this game is mindless, super easy and baby-proofed- which is just insecurity. Original Spider-Man 2 swinging, is still easy. Kids beat Spiderman 2, I beat Web of Shadows and loved doing tricks. It's not that hard.
To be honest, I barely noticed assist was on when I played the first time, I noticed it more as I came back but the system worked amazingly. Spider-Man is a fantasy superhero game- these games never emphasized complex movement tech even if they had them as an option- because people wanna play a Spiderman game to feel Spiderman. It's only a d-measuring contest to you and a small section of people who want the game to be a remake of Spiderman 2 on PS2. But PS2 Spiderman was easier to make and for a considerably smaller audience than these new games are. Some of these criticisms are valid, but this video has this smug vibe I can't get behind.
This system is not bad because people who don't want to worry about angles can enjoy the game now. Ifs a great system because more people can enjoy this game and experience Less of the weird jank of the old games.
You aren't better than people because you enjoy a kids PS2 game. Grow up.
3 things
1.Turn off swing assist
2. Actually get good at the game
3. Stop glizzy gargling Spiderman 2 PS2
It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
@@hazelcrispthis gotta be bro’s alt account cause this guy is another professional yapper
@emmanuelakalusi3690 Cus the game isn't that great. I guess people have low standards and easily pleased by a system that looks good but not complex or depth
@@hazelcrisp It's that regency bias.
@@hazelcrisp Straight up lie. If you just press R2 and forward you’ll either go into a building or hit the ground. He literally kept swing assist on in this video because his point doesn’t work without it 😂
Some of the complains you made wouldn't occur if you turned off the swing assist though? I understand the intention of this video but some complaints felt like unnecessary nitpicking. Also, catering towards casual fans makes sense since, you know, it's a Spider-Man game.
You see I understand your view and the points you make but my only issue is, Insomniac Games *never* promised physics based realistic swinging therefor I cannot be upset at the arcade style mechanics. If they had promised realistic swinging and then didn't deliver, then yeah sure I'd be upset. But for what its worth, I think Insomniacs swinging mechanics are some of the best ever made in ANY traversal game.
Another thing I wanna mention is Insomniac when presenting their first Spider-Man game back in 2017 did in fact say that they wanted their web-swinging to feel nonstop. As in nothing will stop your momentum. That's why there is seamless swinging to wallrun transitions and also why the game will help correct a mistake like if you were to hit a wall near the top, it would automatically adjust for you with an preset animation. Its to make you feel unstoppable while swinging and personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.
I completely agree. The improvements made only add more complexity with players now able to take more ownership over how they want to swing, maximising style or speed or both and in a beautiful presentation of NY. I think this system is the best for the widest player base, with new and veterans being able to gain something from it.
I grew up playing SM2 as a kid and absolutely adored swinging in that game and I feel that insomniac whilst aren’t completely physics based are building a system with nuances and complexity for expression without removing that heroic edge and feel for the casual or ‘arcade’ gamer to appreciate
What even is this argument, just cause it was their creative decision doesn't mean it was a good one, or shouldn't fall under criticism just cause they wanted it that way. Not to mention that they *did* say that they wanted the swinging to be physics based.
@@radar4104they did say that, but the whole presentation where they said it was about why they didn't go with it and went with a more animation based system, which was much more successfull during playtesting.
“They didn’t promise anything interesting, so I wasn’t disappointed”
Nice defence of the game.
@@CarnerioTostado I'm not talking about their presentations, I'm talking about this 3 minute video where they straight up market the game as having physics based swinging, which is just not true lol
th-cam.com/video/X7_tCWcVvsw/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared&t=36
In the same video they also said that they wanted the system to have depth, which is also not true, they just wanted it to be accessible to the point of tedium. Boasting that they "perfected web swinging" by making it braindead is pretty absurd.
And even if you ignore all of this, the argument that "they never said it'd have depth so it's ok" is wrong on so many levels
13:49 literally cutting away from the clip where you would have hit a wall and your point would have been disproven, what a clown.
Bro, just turn off assisted swinging.
Should have mention the "Prototype" wall running physics. Alex actually had inertia and could slide up and down on the walls.
Oh that's right I remember that, it's a good feeling.
I can imagine Insomniac's Spider-Man version of that. Skidding and sliding along the sides of buildings.
this bum using ai for thumbnails saying these devs need to work harder 😭😭
So I like a bit of criticism, it’s always warranted. However a few of your points are repeated often. It’s not as egregious as you make it out to be, the swinging they’ve designed is heavily animation based. It looks right because it feels right. The movie game on PS2 is heavy, fun to swing in? Sure but it’s aged. Now I get it’s a good thing to talk about how “auto pilot” the swinging can get but in reality, who swings like that? Just holding one button the whole time. Everyone is doing something. The wings I will agree are the most auto pilot, put the controller down and you’d get somewhere. But as a whole the game engages the player and wants them to do something so they can look cool and then feel cool once they figure out harder things. I pretty much fully agree with what you said at the end. There should’ve been more however they didn’t do everything they should’ve since they wanna try to keep it from becoming over complicated for those with accessibility issues considering they catered a lot of new settings towards that.
Extremely embarrassing how this video hasn’t been deleted yet
Extremely embarrassing how your mum didn't abort you
You got destroyed by Colin
And who is he exactly?
@@headshotmaster138 The man that exposed how much of a fraud Dark Space is
@@headshotmaster138 th-cam.com/video/S2B6mZPihAs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=InOIbVUewvsWjhLh
Counter-argument: These games are not made for the experts who practice these things over and over. They're made for the most casual of casuals who want to play a spider-man game and look cool. Did previous games do swinging better? Probably, but that was them putting extra effort into it that most people playing it aren't going to care about. (For example, do the webs need to stick to buildings? Not really. But the games that do are because the developers put extra effort that wasn't necessary into doing that.) You may think it's broken, but these games were not made for people like you. It's working as intended. Edit: I just want to clarify that it would be nice if insomniac added this stuff in, but it's not a requirement. Saying that it's a "problem" is ignoring the point of these games, which is to both appeal to a super wide audience and to make casuals look cool. You may not like it, but it's the truth. (Also about trayarch spider-man 2, the reason why that game has a lot of swinging features is because it was the first of it's kind so they put a lot of extra effort into it. Expecting that for every game is just going to leave you disappointed in everything spider-man.)
Did you even watch the video?
It doesn’t take an expert to want to express movement and experience being Spider-Man BY YOURSELF. If games like apex thought like you did there wouldn’t be movement techniques or they would remove them all
So you say that a sequel to a well acclaimed game of a really big company, didn’t put the effort to upgrade the gameplay to make sure that casual and expert can play with the same enjoyment (a problem who was already in the first one) because that would need to much work… im not sure i agree with this one
@metalrex2480 I'm talking about spider-man games in general. To use as an example: Do the webs need to be attached to the buildings? Not really, but insomniac and the trayarch decided to put extra effort into it because to them, they felt it was necessary.
@@david_ce ........what the hell are you even talking about? Nothing you said has any relevance to what I'm talking about.
Argument is not really solid, what he means is that you can increase the range to include both casual and pro players, casual players praised the complexity yet natural feel of OG Spiderman 2, the ability to have almost anything you want to do whether you use it or not is what makes the game amazing.
“That game had ACTUAL physics” *shows clip of the most laughably busted PS2 physics possible lol. You’re not thinking about any of this practically. They have to allow the player to move through a MASSIVE map constantly rendering, so the less obstacles, the better.
Also, while it may be fun to fuck around and break a physics system, from a quality, gameplay and artistic perspective, having the superhero move and act like a superhero instead of constantly fucking up slamming into walls is the better way to go. Sure they could have a “wall slamming active mode,” but as a default, this makes much more sense.
Edit: It would be good for them to make it so, instead of clipping through the buildings, the web bent along side them, either bringing him into a wall run, or spinning him into a following web shot for a slight speed boost upon release though. 🤷♂️ 🕸
Your version of "better" is sply a mindless fanservice shitfest game which is what this game is.
To say that the physics in spiderman 2 2004 are broken is a testimony of how little you understand.
"The less obstacles the better" im sorry but that's just idiotic.
"Have webs coil instead of clipping" that would be a physics based system if te webs are real and not just animated as coiling around.
If theyre animated that way but they dont get any shorter, then it's just more useless cosmetic crap to fool mindless players.
This game fooled many into thinling that it has any actual physics, because i keep being told to turn off assist to "make it more rrealistic".
What youre dewcribing is exactly the issue,you thimk a good game is a game that makes you look cool, this is what a good game is to a mindless player. To anyone who wants to do tje actual swinging, this game is boring as hell after like 4 traversals.
@@Zakietos Yawwwwn, you made the same dumb point in 5 paragraphs. Go play a Souls game for pointless difficultly. It's a fucking super hero power fantasy, Sherlock and if you can't see how blatantly broken those 04 physics are, your eyes are as bad as your spelling and reasoning.
@@ZakietosMost boomers who hop on the dick of the older games really have nothing to say other than "the modern games suck!!11"
you describe it as a more arcade game then cry when it's not pushing full realism
There‘s some things I agree and disagree with in this video. One thing I disagree with is your opinion on the wingsuit. You compared speed of wingsuit with the speed of swinging, but in your clip you were swinging by releasing your swings in height instead of releasing when being on the bottom of the swing. As you said releasing earlier will push your speed vertical distance while releasing later will push your horizontal height. I think by using this method you‘d eventually be as fast as with the wingsuit. Also I barely noticed anyone only use the wingsuit, I only see people mix between each other for more diversity or using the tunnels for height push, other than that they stay on swinging because it’s obviously more made more satisfying
Dude if I were you, I would play this game while turn off the swing assist if I don't want to be forced to release the web swing or preferred to have the swing mechanics more challenging just like the OG Spider-Man 2 game. Or maybe do a proper research next time before you even think about criticizing the game. And perhaps you shouldn't have to compare this game to that 19 years old game. There's a lot of shits that this game can do which the movie game couldn't do
I’m super thankful guys like him aren’t in charge of these games. His version of Spiderman web swinging will be so tedious. I will fast travel cause of how annoying it will be. & the majority of his complaints were also just weird like who wants to just hang on their web randomly or hang on a helicopter to go across the river. Every time he showed clips of Spiderman 2 (PS2) I was thankful Insominac didn’t go that route, it just looks lame
How can you say the original spider-man 2 has better physics when it let's you do 100 loops??
I’m satisfied with the swinging, would be dope if it was like the OG SM2 too tho, like a mix minus the assistance, get the best of both worlds that are realistic to achieve. The webwings are cool and yeah you can heavily depend on them but you don’t have to, it’s up to you how to use it, I use it to reach a building to swing from that’s just a bit too far and also to gain speed to resume swinging fast.
They for sure got to add wall combat in the next game, I think that’d be dope and is very possible, like press X and SQUARE together near a wall and while you’re on it to enter wall combat and press it again anytime to exit wall combat or web strike a grounded or in flight enemy to exit, but of course we’d have to have certain enemies that are able to stick and fight on walls too for a good reason and they’d have to be more resistant to being pulled off the wall and being webbed to it, and they’d have to have an attack from the wall hitting you while you’re grounded. The enemies should be split, types that are always on the ground and types that can do both ground and wall combat, just so that they aren’t always retreating to the wall and forcing you to always fight on the wall with them after you knocked them off in wall combat or gadget hit. Idk, a group of smarter people that make games can figure it out better.
Why would you play with swing assist on then criticize the physics?
Donkey behavior 🫏.
How did he let that slide...
This video actively made me loose braincells
My issue with your criticism (and it is legitimate criticism, I just don't see anything you mention as a 'problem') is "Yeah...but who tho?"
"You do 100 loops in Spider-Man 2 if you wanted to." "Yeah...but why tho? You're not exactly traversing."
The moment from 5:36 where you're just hanging from the web trying to go slowly over the building to show the anti-grav-like effect likewise has me thinking "yeah...but who would actually do that?"
Like you I've been playing Spider-Man games far before Spider-Man 2 (2004) and I still think Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is a good iteration.
Go play The Spider-Lair if you want the full physics based web Swinging experience. It's a world on VRChat.
I definitely feel like this fits into the “technically right, but does it matter?” Kind of criticism.
Like, yeah, it doesn’t make sense to immediately turn from a dive into running up a wall, but he was also bit my a magic spider and fights a black goo monster from mars. I don’t think the goal here is to be physically accurate. More so, to gives the payer a sense of being a superhero and the free running allows you to “effortlessly” move because that’s how it would feel to Spider-Man.
Would it be good to have a much more in-depth fix engine. Yes.
Just like it would be great if BG3 doubles the party members you could get, or if Hi-Fi Rush had more levels, or if Tears of the Kingdoms map was twice as big. Ect.
Complaining about getting around the map easier’s insane lmao
No it isn't. If GTA 6 makes you able to drive through the entire map by just having one button pressed the whole time, I guarantee people would complain about it.
How am I supposed to "feel"like spiderman if I'm letting the game play itself.
@@edwin99901why would you do that though? The fun is found in doing the things that *do* make you feel like Spider-Man, at least for me.
Ngl you yappin the game was good
Nitpicking at its best lol
Mf just yapping lol
How the hell would you play a game with harder swinging??? You cant even turn off web assistance or get good clips of you playing with or without assistance ☠️
Deadass. Bro can’t even play the game on easy mode as is yet he wants it harder. All that yet the feature he loves the most is just sitting there hanging on a single web
Yall some bots 💀 and you're onto absolutely nothing bro
i hate that you called thos system „not physics based“ because it Obviously is, its just a controlled physics system.
this man is yapping on a whole different level 💀
Okay... after revisiting this video? I have now come to a conclusion that you made a pointless breakdown.
1. You were SPECIFICALLY talking about the 10% of Swing-Assist for your "critique."
I don't care how it holds your hand at 10%... you shouldn't have even laid your EYES on that section anymore, but instead make a full blown CRITIQUE of 0% Swing-Assist and how they can improve it towards Spider-Man 3.
From your last video? They've basically given you what you wanted at 0%! An advanced SWINGING option.
At the moment? It's not quite there yet, becuase it still has that blatantly annoying handicap problem where the SYSTEM always tells the player when to let go.
But 0% has delivered on some of the stuff that you've asked.
For example:
-more realistic physics taking control
-being able to touch the ground
-Delivering fall damage... hell, it even works while swinging
- and faster speed and momentum
You should've APPROACHED insomniac with the good things that have arrived with ( *0% Swing-Assist* ) first. After that, tell them the things that it hasn't achieved YET!
For example... getting rid of that stupid handicap problem that always tells the player when to let go when they're at their highest arc while *"HOLDING"* R2. You should've nicely asked them in the video to get rid of that system in 0% Swing-Assist in Spider-Man 3, but make it EXCLUSIVE towards 10% Swing-Assist becuase that's where it freaking belongs.
It doesn't take away their work, and delivers on what WE want.
Instead, regarding the physics and good things of ( 0% Swing-Assist ), you blatantly started waffling up a long video about the problems of their 10% Swing Assist.
*You know how unprofessional, ignorant, and stupid that crap was? You should've not talked about it at all if it's not your preferred playstyle.*
You should've only focused your attention at 0%, dog. And as well, talking about mechanics that they could hopefully deliver in Spider-Man 3.
For example:
- Swing Boost
- Directional Swinging
- Dual Web-Swinging
- Wall Zip
- Upwards Zip
- Wall Sliding (mechanic for wall running)
-downwards wall running
- Poll Swinging + Wall Bouncing (mechanics that'll work simultaneously on the same button).
- Crawling Up The Web
- A system that'll automatically make Spider-Man run across the ground when he swings
-A system that'll automatically make Spider-Man *SLIDE* across the ground and walls upon impact (For Momentum and Speed reasons)
-A System (for 0% Swing-Assist) that'll make Spider-Man run across the walls, while he holds on to his webs.
- A System that'll physically bend the web-lines when they approach the corners of a building
- And to improve the CORNER-TETHER mechanic to as well work forward.
That type of stuff, sucka.
Speaking upon 10% Swing-Assist, Web-Wings, and Water Sliding are completely irrelevant.
You just sounded plain rude when it came to insomniac's work, instead of being logical on how to approach them as game developers.
Freakin' ay, dog.
The fact that the previous Spider-Man Games got the wall crawlling right
wall crawling has generally been pretty bad on most spider-man games. The only aspects I liked was crawling around open doorways, edges, and corners in TASM games and the horizontal wall running while swinging in the current game. We still lack a game that has good wall crawling when going vertically, but I'll give credit to web of shadows for concept of fighting on walls. Albeit unrealistic, it's kind of cool
I'll start by talking about what I agreed with. The wall crawling is bad in the Insomniac games, no complaints there. I also agree with you on a bunch of the stuff you'd have liked to see as well. The parkour animations don't really bother me that much, I prefer to see stylish maneuvering over just running next to an object, but I can agree that Insomniac should try to implement more precise animations so that we could do both in the next game.
Onto problems I had with your video. First off, what is up with the wording of your script? I noticed several times that the phrasing of your script came across as subtly denigrating the perspective of people who like the mechanics in this game, through phrases and lines like "arcade swinging system for the casual player" or "some people may enjoy the way it plays when their path is controlled by the traversal syatem, but I just don't." Were you trying to make people who liked the mechanics angry enough to hate watch your video, or was it an attempt to sound more formal?
That smug attitude carries across the video, what with all of the lionizing of Spider-Man 2 2004 and treating it like it's a perfect game. I could nitpick that the slingshot mechanic in Spider-Man 2 2004 or its boost mechanic don't make any sense "physics" wise, but I'll focus on consistent issues I've had with Spider-Man 2 2004 over the years. Namely webs attaching to buildings on the other side of the street from where I'm seinging throwing off my momentum and the generally clunky and unintuitive control layout. And I'm not comparing it to Insomniac's games, I've always preferred Ultimate Spider-Man's traversal system as far as older Spider-Man games go.
Back to Spider-Man 2 PS5, I don't think you were trying to push the game's traversal system very hard. Your footage looks so barebones and basic, I was moving faster within seconds of the game starting. I don't think I saw you use the point launch mechanic once in your video, and you only used the loop and the corner tether when talking about them. Try combining the base web swining with point launches, corner tethers, loops, going in-between gliding and swinging, the air boosts, and tricks all while trying to maintain top speed. I won't try to argue it's harder than Spider-Man 2 2004, but it has a higher skill ceiling than you're giving it credit for. You also act like the recovery animations don't cause you to lose speed, that feels like a punishment to me. The top speed is also a lot more than "slightly faster," I've timed myself swinging from one end to Manhattan to the other in Spider-Man PS4 and Spider-Man 2 PS5 and shaved almost a minute off. Trying to maintain that speed really shows you how much the recovery animations do actually slow you down. Your criticism of the surfing mechanic also seemed hypocritical, as you were criticizing Spider-Man 2 PS5 for not letting you rest on the wall while on a web for limiting your freedom, but Spider-Man 2 PS5 having surfing and wingsuit mechanics to let you cross the water (expanding your freedom of movement) is bad because it's not isolating? That doesn't make any sense to me.
You also absolutely lied about the air tunnels. Leaving them is dirt easy and I saw at least one clip that would have seen you leaving the air tunnel if you hadn't cut it right as you were. They also only appear if you use spider sense or are travelling through them, so "distracting looking" is also not really true either.
I won't disagree with the wing suit feeling on the weightless and rigid side, but I also don't think you were being fair with the Just Cause 3 comparison. Just Cause 3's map has a lot of open space on account of being set in a series of tropical islands. Spider-Man 2 PS5 is set is a sprawling, densely packed city. If the same gliding physics were used, it would be a bordelrine unusable mechanic, especially since I think Insomniac was trying to make it easy to switch between web swinging and gliding.
Overall, while you had some good points, this video seemed extremely disingenuous. I don't think you tried very hard with the web swinging, and the smug, condescending tone just made that all the more unbearable. Wanting a system more like Spider-Man 2 2004 is fine, but at least be fair.
The wall-crawler that can't crawl walls.
a harsh critique but a fair one. i wonder how movement would feel if spidey 3 has fully physics based swinging? i feel like currently there is a happy medium.
It’s just not tho he has some good half points but most of what he says in the video is just boiled down to skill issue
Fair my ass... bro kept on ragging at 10% swing assist when he could just turn it off.
Donkey behavior, bruh.
Yes, there IS better physics when you Swing-Assist to 0%.
To be fair, shutting off all the web assist features definitely makes it slightly more difficult to avoid stuff. Actually I feel almost completely in control half the time... especially when I crash. I do wish that impact could feel more like crashing into something though... its somewhat anticlimactic. Anyway, personally, I feel you actually have to think about distance and angle with no assist. But I agree, it could be better.
"slightly more" difficult, "almost completely in control half the time... when i crash" come on, you're just in denial right now
@@danieleesposito7784but the guy in the video isn’t??? he’s playing the game with full assist and is web swinging at like 3% of its full capacity cmon now 🤦♂️
I"m so glad someone is calling this out. It's so frustrating to love a game, knowing you could love it so much more.
Skill-based traversal will always beat casual and presentation based traversal. It's why Infamous came out on top when compared to Prototype back in the day.
Keep copeing yall. For all the things you dont like and think got worse others enjoy a lot and think are great. Being picky does nothing. What's the point of this video? Telling people the game could be better? Yeah ofcourse it can. So can every game to exist. Insomniac isnt going to go back and change it so why bother? To stir controversy and gain veiws? Even if thats not your intention that's what it looks like. You keep bringing up the same exact points. I'm not saying you can't have opinions or state them but you also shouldn't say the same thing again and again you loose the meaning and point its practically beating a dead horse. At this point your flat out annoying. I dont hate or even dislike your criticism I agree with your points but when repeating yourself and restating the same things for 22 minutes it becomes worthless. Thats all I wanted to say I hope you all have a wonderful day.
Being a single player game elitist is wild
I agree with you but the wing suit argument i found kind of dumb. If you don't like the wind tunnels just don't use them thats what I do, I only use the updrafts. This game is a superhero power fantasy while I agree with you that I want to see more difficult traversal I doubt that's what the majority of players want and that's pretty important to consider. If it is the case the majority of players don't want more difficult web swinging insomniac making it harder despite what the majority wants it would be relatively idiotic
Everything he said about the wingsuit is not dumb. It’s absolutely facts. Spider-Man swings, he doesn’t fly. They shouldn’t have enabled Spider-Man to fly in this game , just glide
@@calebmcclure3893 But i mean if you want to look at it like that he isn't flying he's still gliding he's just getting pushed by the wind. Listen i agree it 's stupid theres such highly pressurized pockets of wind constantly flowing through the city but he isn't flying and again just don't hit triangle when you're swinging Its a feature you don't need to interact with and if you don't use the web wings you wont see the annoying aI from the tunnels. How does it affect how you think is best to play the game when it's a system you are only forced to use 3 times in the story and can just actively ignore for the rest of the game?
I never understood why this game appealed to many people, I understand though that it provides an overall nice experience within the spidermen domain. But people going so crazy over it? I don’t get it. To me as a player, I fully agree with you, crucial aspects need to be crafted to the little details such as spiderman’s webs, what is spiderman without his webs and swinging? That needs to be almost perfected but from what I’m seeing, it is not even mastered yet. If Rockstar developed it, I can only imagine how detailed it would be, I’d imagine they’d let you create complex and creative combinations with the webs. Those webs should be a weapon, a mens of transportation and a crafting material, why can’t I aim where I wish to shoot a string, connect two things to create scenarios during a fight, or hold on to something I don’t want getting away or even linking webbings between different structures, creating nets? The exciting stuff are automated, more like 70% cinematic, 30% gameplay.
It feels like you are playing a completely different game than me, ive played the whole game with swing asissts off and ive messed up a ton, especially at the start of the game i kept hitting the floor and dying. But by the end of my playthrough I mastered the swinging with assists and i still feel like i can get better
It's not about messing up or not, you're missing the point
@@amadeusk525 be quiet
@@amadeusk525 nah the point is the creator of the video is playing the game to 5% of its capacity and thinking he knows what he’s talking about
“it should’ve been like spider-man 2 2004” the whole video basically 😂
He's not wrong.
@@mr.marvin no. he’s not
The main issue is the playerbase, im sorry swinging was complicated enough for a university corse
8:44 forgot the name of it but the nvidia animation thing with the ai I think while would be nice in some aspects, it would take more space and take more away from the animators. Animators need practice with different things like environment interaction and movement transitions, but what would they apply that to if AI is actively adapting to the environment while the player is playing? I guess cutscenes would work but I think we would need more of them (which I wouldn’t mind at all)
Arguably, a lot of your issues is the game trying it's best to ensure you feel cool while playing all while trying to make it seem real.
A lot of his issues boil down to skill issue and not bothering to check his settings. Swing assist is optional, and those animations halt your momentum to a crawl. That IS the punishment.
His point about the rubber bands and not touching the controller doesn't make sense either. The gameplay looks like ass. The point of swinging is to build up speed and look stylish. All of the swinging in the video is amateurish at best.
The reason it feels handholdy is because your only using one move... Your meant to be diving, using spider-jump and spider-dash, doing air tricks, using web wings, corner tethering, point launching, wall running, web zips, slingshot launching, charge jumping, using updrafts, going through wind tunnels, surfing, probably more stuff I'm forgetting
But what's the point if the game doesn't make me need to use them. When most can press r2 and X.
It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
@@hazelcrisp It makes you use them to go fast? Like if you spend money on a video game aren't you gonna wanna get the most out of it? Only pressing R2 and X is probably the slowest way to go somewhere besides walking
@@hazelcrisp Why would you want to do that tho? How is that fun.
@@hazelcrisp your missing the entire point. yes, you can do that and it'll do what you need, but are you going to be engaged? no. so mix it up and include some of the unlockable abilities, turn off swinging assist and turn on fall damage
He’s making int seem as if running into a building doesn’t ruin your momentum and speed or as if getting enough momentum doesn’t completely change how you interact with your surroundings. It’s as he has an agenda to push and doesn’t actual care what the actual gameplay is so he can push said agenda.
As most people do bro, I don't get it
you guys clearly missed the point of the video...
@@TheEmperorRaidou No, we didn't, sucka... which is why we're calling it stupid talk.
Good video, but I think the term "arcade" is significantly misused here. "Arcade" games would generally strive to give you the best learning curve possible, one that encourages you to get better at the game and get a grasp of its controls in a proper simulation, the opposite of automating everything like Insomniac does.
But yea, in the end, as long as they prioritize accessibility over depth, they're never gonna make a swinging system that promotes freedom.
There's literally an option to make swinging harder.
i just don’t under stand how he can be so bad at the game with swing assist on and even make a video like this
Honestly, id love to see more game design stuff from you!
You should try dying light 2. With the grappling hook you feel like spiderman and there is momentum and physics.
They just want the game to be more accessible. The old Spider-Man 2 had a learning curve with swinging. I was actually really good at it, but I imagine most plp would not be. I think keeping the stream line swinging with the OPTION of advanced swinging would've been great.
I think they did good with the goal they had in this game with the speed and the new mechanics I feel they can still improve a lot but it would be nice
i'm sure that was the intention with this game especially with the amount of accessibility options present in the game
Freaking 0% Swing-Assist is right there.
People are so lame! The level of detail you all want in the swinging is like saying “why cant i control my character eye blinks or bresthing or heart beats”… YES im being overly exaggerated to make a point. The swinging looks and feels great just enjoy the game and stop crying already
You're right. He should definitely be able to swing across the map on his own
the one thing i wanted was to have at least the option in the menu to turn on swinging like TASM2 the game where you have to use L2 and R2 this would give the game a more realistic feel like you're actually making decisions
Word Spider-Man has two hands wtf are we swinging with 1 button
What would that change
@@Axolotlaxe21 i legit said what it would change
Car surfing and grinding would've so awesome, grinding even appears in the first scene with the advance suit never to be seen in actual gameplay ever to this very day.
this video should have been 1 second long with the narrator saying "there isn't one"
Bro has never turned off swing assistance, turned on fall damage, and played on ultamite
This is like arguing that the track and tires in a racing game have too perfect texture and grip and the engine never blows if you push the car too hard
How I miss the days of playing the good Spider-Man 2 in my childhood. Now they got everything wrong in Spider-Man PS4, Miles and 2. If they were gonna just make everything garbage in the new games the least they could do is at LEAST have a fun and good swinging system. Spider-Man 2 factually remains the best Spider-Man game ever along with one of the best games ever. GameCube lover here. Shattered Dimensions is also a good pick for best Spidey game ever too, though. As long as it's not utter garbage, no one's completely brainless. Spider-Man 2, YES!
You can find unused sliding mechanics in the game files for the first game. I was hoping to see those return in the second one.
Sliding? What do you mean?
@@deadspace297 grinding
@@akira17_samurai Like web wall running type shit?
IVE BEEN ASKING FOR GRINDING EVER SINCE WE SAW SPIDERMAN DO IT WHEN HE FIRST GOT THE ADVANCE SUIT WE WERE SO CLOSE
where can we see this online?
If you want full control then TURN OFF SWING ASSIST oh you can't cause you SUCK at this game
This is the single worst video I have ever watched in my entire life I have never seen a worst video this video made me feel ten times dumber let me be honest the og spiderman 2 is not as good as the ps5 version no matter how much nostalgia comes with the first one you can do way more with the traversal,fighting, and air tricks in the new then you ever could with the old
All the gameplay shown still has Swing Assist on
hahhahahaha
Exactly... dude should've focused on 0% Swing-Assist instead of blatantly speaking for the sake of speaking.
You've talked about Euphoria Physics as a possible improvement. I have an issue with that: it makes different games look the same. It's very good looking, but also easily recognizable, while hand made / motion captured animations are different in every game
Rag doll physics look the same in every game, but nobody ever complains about that
It looks the same to the extent it looks like real life
I feel like you'd be able to control the influence of the hand-animated animations with euphoria's physics-based ones.
This video is genuinely terrible. You complain about literally nothing for 22 minutes straight. This is actually awful.
Bro played on max swing assist and wondered why the swinging was playing itself and had less detailed physics 😭😭😭
He literally showed the zero swing assist in the video..? and talked about it at length?
also, i tried it on zero and it was a *challenge* to hit a wall or to hit the ground or take damage. this game really does play itself for you.
@@Webofshadowsclipshe played on zero assist for one clip…
@@Webofshadowsclipssure bud 🤥
@@Null._ I swear I tried showing my friend. I said "watch this" and then proceeded to try intentionally messing up my swings and hit a wall for 5 minutes to show him the new damage feature and got nothing. I could be mistaken, but I don't think it's even possible to slam into a wall in this game. Am i wrong?
And if you ask me that's far too handholdy for a *spider-man* game. Especially for a supposed "zero assist" feature. One that will still not even let you literally "swing" back and forth. Which should be the most basic benchmark of any spider-man game's swinging physics. Can you actually "swing" with them? 👀
He's just bad at swinging with 0 swing assist is all, no hate towards the and a lot of their critiques can be disproven @@Webofshadowsclips
you showed off absolutely brain dead gameplay of you swinging through the city and said the game does not have an advance swinging system
He doesn't even know how to web swing and plays using max swing assist
You always talk about great swinging mechanics in older spidey games but i am just wondering on why you actively avoid Web of Shadows in this topic. Because it in my opinion has the most freedom in its web-slinging system, from the various moves it provides, to the absolute bonker speeds it allows you to reach to without any cap if you really get good in it.
And also, you can run along the ground while swinging, climb your webs while swinging, it had good web physics. That game is basically what you get if you blend all the good features of other spiderman games
@@TR58699 yup
Wall grind, 360°wall running, upward and downward wall sliding (which preserve momentum), wall zip 360° (increase, and also preserve momentum from a wall run), Wall slide jump (from either the edge of a building for maximum height, or while sliding to directly transition into a swing), wall holds (to quickly adjust directions while swinging into a wall without transitioning into a wall run, and it also preserves momentum of done in quick succession), web zip up (to quickly gain height), physics based swinging (carry momentum that continuously increases speed at mid section releases, and gives height accordingly during high section releases depending on speed and release timing), pole swinging (which also preserves momentum if done in quick succession), web climbing (which provides base max height without resorting to momentum), regular web zips (which are pretty useless in most situations but provide a smooth way to quickly scale over a building rooftop without resorting to manually walking off the edge).
And all of this is button sensitive. Web of Shadows pretty much provides the spectacle and ease of use of Insomniac's swinging without sacrificing player control.
@@kimetsunoacademia3528you forgot how web of shadows webs don't attach to buildings half the time lol along with other physics breaking quirks
that game never was the pinnacle of traversal, the only noteworthy thing it did was allow you to go extremely fast
@@Bruzewane oh FK off with your webs attach to buildings bs. Half the time I barely even look, and I won't deny the game is janky, but its a goddamn 2008 early gen PS 3 game, cut it some slack, even the likes of Arkham asylum and Infamous have jank on a similar level to web of shadows, but people don't use that as a complaint to detract from their overall enjoyment do they?
You can't just disregard superior gameplay mechanics just because it does not "attach to buildings". I am sick of this bs, argument.
@@Bruzewane While the webs don't always attatch to buildings they do attatch to something, the swinging is still physics based.
This whole video contradicts itself strictly off of him showing only clips with Swing assist on. To sit here and say it’s not physics based and it holds your hand to much proves you have never played it without swing assist on. This is such a bad video lol.
bro says spiderman 2 ps2 is realistic for its physics 🤣 u dont know shit about what ur talking about since the game lets you swing onto thin air
you clearly haven't played the game, and what does it say when spider-man 2 (2023) webs still attach to the air like at 21:00
Bros bad at the game and blames the devs. Lmao.
Treyarch really knew how to make us really *feel* like Spider-Man
No they didn't. No one comes close to Insomniac
@@MichaelM28Ok
@MichaelM28 Your here as well?! I just can't escape you and your horrible takes can I?
Although the physics in the 2004 Spider-Man game were cool I think people just forget that it isn't nearly as fun to play compared to some Spider-Man games we got later (including the Insomniac ones). The game now is dated in several aspects and the swinging overall just feels stiffy to play even if you can do some cool things with the physics.
Insomniac's SM games may not be the ones with fully physics-based swinging, but they are the best middle ground in terms of actual fun and style with some kind of realism.
@@igorbrandao6735 insomniac games have the weight, web of shadows has the control and angles, ultimate has web bending, spider man 2 and spider man 3 have the best wall running, tasm has webrush and spider man 3 has a quick webzip, all make perfect traversal if combined in my opinion.
You know realisticly, if you would swing from a web you also wouldn't be able to decide which direction you would go in exactly
thats why you'd web zip in the direction you want to go, you would predominantly be moving forward with each swing though. And if they added the ability to climb webs like in ultimate spider-man, that would also help with having more control of your swinging
@@darker2920 Spider-Man does have super human strength
Again if you do that, it takes away the player's freedom of expression. The system we have now also does that. We are asking for a middle ground. Just don't take everything to the extreme. Whether it be realism or hand holding. Your comment is very disingenuous, acting like you don't know what the guy wants. You know he wants a swinging system similar to SM2 on PS2. You know how that works but still you typed this shitty take thinking that this is your Dr House moment where you show the guy opposing you the flaw in their beliefs. But to have a moment like House you actually have to be as smart as House. Which you, clearly, are not even close to.
Something that the lead developer of Spider-Man 2 (the 2004 one) explained in an interview, how they traded that piece of realism for a better swinging experience.
@@chaosspider5765 and I agree. The swinging could be a lot better. But the guy in the vid was talking about realism specifically
Quick question ever heard of not playing like SHIT
I think you'll just whining because you're blind by nostalgia of a game that's from 2004 times have changed and Spider-Man games have a evolved true insomniacs web swing isn't perfect but I want you to think maybe you're being blinded by nostalgia for an Titan movie game that was released so long ago that the only reason it's kept alive is because of whiny people like you who can't get past their nostalgia glasses
So true
This "essay" reminds me of the ign reviewers who sucked ass at DMC and docked points for the bad music without realizing the music only picks up when you're doing good. I guess rent was due cause why else would you just lie for 21 minutes
For real... like.
Bro's coming at the problems at 10% Swing-Assist instead of giving GENUINE feedback for 0% Swing-Assist.
Bro was just... nagging for no reason.
HELL NO, I don't want web shooter catridges.
dude, there isn't a problem, you're just bad. it's genuinely just a skill issue
Imagine being clowned on by Colin. Also that swinging gameplay is ass
Mate. You lie and lie and lie through this entire thing about the gameplay.
Wow this guy is really bad at the game and must play all games on easy mode. I bet he even plays racing games with assist mode on so it plays the game for him
Just the 2 cents of an engineer with a degree in physics. Nobody would want a 100% or even 50% physics base swing system. That really would kill the fantasy of playing as Spider-Man.
As a current engineering undergraduate, agreed. I don’t think these guys understand what physics based swinging would actually mean 😂
Yeah, I mean do people think that Toby 2 had accurate physics? To start with you can change your trajectory midair without a source of propulsion, you can artificially boost the speed of your swings with skills from the spidey store, you can double jump and they had to increase gravity by a factor of 10 so you could pick up enough speed with your swings.
It would also probably kill spiderman cause his web swinging is almost impossible
For humans at least. Those are more biological than physical limitations though. @@Itmeb
@@jacobharris3002 true
Will insomniac listen to this video?
probably not, since the core of the game isn’t based of a web swinging simulation
this video is just misinformation and misleading. theres a swing assist option if you want harder swinging, in most of these clips your making the game look worse on purpose. like in the wind tunnel complaint you said you can’t leave them and it fights you but if you play the game normally yk thats not true😭, also when you run into something you still lose momentum. you talk about how the movie tie in game is the gold standard but pretty much every feature you mention is the same if not improved on. like i said earlier when you run into something you play and animation of you going over it but you still lose most your speed. the movie tie in game did the same thing but instead you just float up and the whole wingsuit section looks and sounds like a skill issue and nobody makes you use the wings. theres tons of other mis information in this video but thats the most obvious, don’t listen to this dude if your thinking about purchasing
He's on swing assist 10, no fall damage, and literally isn't trying when swinging in the whole video, I think it's more of a skill issue here
@@krud2837 his gameplay is just straight up embarrassing to watch
@@krud2837 It's still piss easy with 0 swing assist. Doing maneuvers takes very little skill. The game hold your hand. And setting it to zero just makes it hold you hand less tight. There's no challenge or difficulty to raverse the game. It needs more depth. Low swinging is also ass too.
Tell 'em streight, brother... but here's what insomniac most definitely needs to improve on for 0% Swing-Assist.
- Remove the "ASSIST" feature that keeps cutting players off from their swing whenever they reach a high arc
- And make the physics engine to go a complete 360° to achieve a physical Loop de Loop based upon speed and momentum
Do that? It's perfect.
@@krud2837 Bro was either in his feelings when he saw 10% Swing-Assist! Or his rent was due.
Bro was just speaking... unprofessionaly, and insultingly. What an absolute donkey 🫏.
This video all feels like nitpicking tbh…
We shouldn’t need a super insanely precise swinging mechanic in a casual single player Spider-Man game in 2023.
People just want to have fun and enjoy themselves.
The game works and is a critical success. Nobody really cares about any of these points.