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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2019
- I discuss the most common, worst cluster of problems in tanning hides and skins with bark, or vegetable tanning.
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Unless steered in the right direction, almost all beginning bark tanners use liquors or tanning materials like old bark, which are too weak. Similarly and with the same result, the liqours are not strengthened often enough to preserve the skin while tanning. Vegetable tanning a skin requires a lot of tannic acid. As the tannic acid is used up, the liquor becomes weak and begins to get smelly and gross. If the solution is not strong enough, the hide will begin to break down and often smell bad. The hide will be damaged and usually make poor leather in these scenarios. Learn to judge the strength of the liquors and materials that you use regularly and make sure that new, strong liquor is being added to keep the solution strength up. Try also to get high quality, high tannin materials to use in your hide tanning. Watch my video on different tanning materials and ideas on how to acquire them. • The Magic Ingredients ...
My daughter is 16 months old. when I put on your videos, the second she hears your voice she comes running and sits still paying attention the entire time
best YT comment ever :) I hope she's learning something lol. Her vocabulary might turn out kind of weird ha ha. pollination. grafting tape, biochar...
@@SkillCult I'm a homesteader so she's going to get all of those words regularly. I just love that she's into the things I am, at such a young age. She won't even sit through barney but a video about tanning she's a for. This girl has her priorities right! 😆
I've learned a lot from you Steven and after 18 hides I am getting the hang of it better each hide. It is nice when you gain enough experience that you don't have to think about it but just do it. I've watch and rewatched your videos many time the first dozen hides. The last three I did this spring and summer can out very well. One of the three I layered and haven't touched it since May. Others I've done this way turned out very well and I'm very pleased. But these last hides I totally replaced the liquor 5-6 times and rung out and skudded the hides each time. It it was hot I replaced the liquor sometimes in 3-5 days.
This made a huge difference. The sassafras tree that a dead oak took down was green but for some reason this bark wasn't as potent as other bark from my woods. Not sure why other than in the past I cooked the bark on my shop stove as opposed to a galvanized tub that would yield two mud buckets. I did my best to used the same amount of bark per gallon, which I basically measured in my 3 gallon stainless pots. By the way, I purchased these 3 gallon pots with lids at the dollar store for $10 each and for bark works great and fits my stove very well. The hide I hope to receive this hunting season I plan to use the Chestnut (rock) oak, which yields a rich red liquor similar to your tan oak. I also have enough hemlock to do a hide which I plan to do. I can get hides from the Amish butcher shops in my area. They charge anywhere between $5-$15 a hide. It is amazing how many hunters don't care about the hides that can be turned into beautiful leather. The liquor in the palm of your hand color test does well and it's exciting to me when that deep rich color comes out. A long process tanning but a grand satisfaction an joy for me. I realize as well how people think a tanned hide should be $50 because you got it free. As anyone knows who has tanned a hide it involves lots of work that yields great satisfaction. I have learned more from your videos with great results, asked questions and video references than all the many watched videos I watched before. Tanning has become part of my life that I look forward to.
I will also send you some dried sassafras leaves. My good friend, who is a fine gourmet cook, uses dried and powdered sassafras leaves as a thickener for soups and stews. He said it works very well. Thanks Again Steven! And I always like to watch some of your tanning vids before and during a new batch of hides, just to stay sharp and aware and renew what I've learned thus. Tan On Young Man Tan On. Okay, so we're not so young but tanning is a studly craft, eh? DaveyJO
Thank you for covering all bases
Any axe video updates soon? Or original axe videos? Thanks, keep up the good work!
So much info. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Learning a lot here. Thank you!
Great explanation. This is what I do (dumping spent liquor from my bins) as well. I would add: people might want to use a pH meter/strips (4.5 is ideal for me) or a little apple cider vinegar early in the process.
do you ever add other fermentables, like sugars to just get more fermentation acid? I tend to not have problems with that because I use almost all oak bark which is plenty high in fermentables.
@@SkillCult I never have, but have used hemlock bark which definitely ferrments. Japanese Knotweed that I have been experimenting with has been fermenting.
@@dennislanigan1082 I think everything probably ferment some, but some are much higher in carbohydrate. I know it's a common reason mentioned for blending materials, to get more sugars, but it seems like you'd see more reference to just adding a separate carbohydrate source to augment.
Thanks for the video I think you read my mind because I’ve been using white oak bark and having the same issue with the solution going rancid and growing mold
Like I said, it's a super common issues. If you get a nice strong solution now and it doesn't draw it down very fast, you're probably past that initial rapid uptake phase and can let it be a while.
Wish we could quantify it, but, otherwise, this is exactly what I needed-today-with three hides on the juice.
Thanks.
Great, glad I can help. The vast majority make this mistake either at first, or at some point.
What materials and method of tanning should I use for sheepskins (and other hides of course) if I want to use them for clothing? Can anyone please answer because I've looking everywhere and none so far gave me a proper answer. Thanks
A Great refresher Steven! I did five deer hides last time and have two that are still layered, which I need to skud and soak. I even have several sides of a beaver tail layered and will soon see how they faired. I have friends who trap and have given me some tails, make great handles or decorative coverings. One friend uses a liquid he buys and it does tan them to a degree but in summer the salts or whatever attracts moisture so you have a sticky yucky oozing handle. Doesn't stink just yucky. So I soaked these tails a few days changing the water a few times, soaked them in bark liquor a week and layered them. They looked great after soaking. Hopefully I'll have time to get they out of the layering along with two deer hides. I am asked about how to tan and I tell them what I know but refer them to you. Your teaching cant be beat and in each video there is enough info to soak in but not overwhelming. Plus experience, the best teacher. Sassafras bark works well but it isn't as strong as oak so more frequent liquor batches are needed. I have a shumack to try, a tree that needs to come down since I didn't bother to remove it from the side of my shop. I also have a nice quantity of hemlock. I did small pieces of leather, which reminds me. I have five examples of leather tanned with different barks I've been meaning to send since spring. Been a busy summer but I accomplished lots around the house that was needed for years. Thanks Kindly Steven! Thanks to your teachings I have 9 good hides and some made into projects sold and a few projects to do for folks. I am very grateful for this and so much more than tanning hides! How about a few more guitar pieces included? Peace and Good Tanning! DaveyJO in Pa.
Hi Davey. I haven't done beaver tail, but heard about them. Did you lime them? I'd be curious what comes off and how much. I been playing my bass a little, but still pretty rusty on guitar and not motivated to play.
SkillCult Hi Steven, the beaver tails had been treated with this solution that is supposed to cure them, which is fine as long as there isn't humidity. After skinning the tail there is hardly any flesh on the ski side. Running across the tails in my still disorganized shop, I decided to soak them a few day, skud them out and did this several times to get the solution out. Then I layered them after a few days soaking in bark liquor. The scales cam off but the texture of the tail remained and looks really cool in a leather color. I'll send you a sample. I've used beaver tails sewn onto handles of rattles and dance sticks and even to adorn Native type flutes, which I make from time to time. Soon I'll send the leather samples, which I've been wanting to do all spring and summer. But many home projects, now finished and winter coming on, there's a bit more time. Thanks Much Steven! DaveyJO
how do you soften your hides??
Hi! do we put the hide in a cold solution or a hot solution?
so, a way to test if the tanning liquor is strong enough would be to let it sit and if mold forms, it most likely is too weak? I have noticed that the leftover liquids that I have had sitting around the place does not form mold, though it does not look very strong
Not really. But excessive mold or scum could be one indicator. I would watch the liquor strength more than that though. And the strength combined with how fast the skin is taking it out of the water. Also, it's frequently more like a bacterial scum/film on the top of the water. Once you do some hides successfully, you'll start to get a feel for when it's not strong enough and things aren't going well. The smell is an indicator too. The smell of a healthy tan can be quite strong and it's bad in a way, but it's more fermenty than rotten, or like bad fruit v.s. bad meat. It's strong, but kind of intriguing. It's not putrid and 100% offensive, like rotten meat or food.
Thanks for the info! Do you ever test for the pH? What is your opinion on using hardwood ash? Here in Montana we have so much more softwood so trying to figure out my best approach.
You can use any ash I think, but you may have to go to efforts to get it strong enough, by boiling it down after leaching, or leaching, then using that water to boil more ashes. Ashes are great when they work and you can figure out the strength without making it too strong or too weak. No, I never test for anything, not my style :)
You can feel and taste the ph
Great series of videos! You are hands down the best resource on the internet for tanning. I've learned a lot from the information you share on this channel.
@5:48 - I also live in Pennsylvania and am looking to obtain a bulk amount of bark for several deer hides. Any chance you could pass along contact info for your friend or his bark source?
Following up on this - I found a wood processor down in south Jersey who let me collect as much bark as I wanted, at no cost. Tanning hides as we speak!
So I’m tanning a fox hide currently, I wanted to try to put the hide in the pickle before fleshing and I did so, but I realized soon that the meat and other shit started to turn brown and smell odd… so I took it out and fleshed it and then salted it …. Now after I salted it I returned it to a new pickle 48 hours later …. When I fleshed it there was a very slight amount of flesh left that I could not get off ( if you could maybe message me on Facebook I could send some images to you for advice ) I’m in the tanning part of the process now and it’s drying alright just want to know if that little bit of flesh will ruin the hide ( no hair is slipping either
At 60 years old, I just did my first deer skin (egg tan), probably a little different than most would do it, and got it smoked last night and it turned out like a piece of stiff rawhide (I haven't stretched it yet, hoping for the best). I'm also working on a hair-on hide that is in the salting process now. My son was given a moose hide that he is trying to bark tan and is having the smelly issue you are talking about. I am going to pass this video along to him. Thank you!
Tanning is hard to learn. Stick with it through the mistakes and it's worth it. He should binge my bark tanning content. the strops from scratch series and the playlist where I'm tanning sheep skins. both playlists are found on my channel page.
@@SkillCultI really want to study this subject. Watch the clip but don't understand English. Can you give me the basic formula?
When I grow up I want to be Steven Edholm.
Careful what you wish for lol.
me too
Also, what are your thoughts on using forbs for tannins versus tree species?
Most typically, it would be roots, not the leaves, but there is probably more potential than has been exploited in forbes. Sumach is the most widely used leaf, sand dock was used, but the root.
Can you tan hides with acorns? I saw your video where you collected acorns but couldn't find a follow up. I'm looking for something to do squirrels.
It will work, just a matter of using enough.
Great tips here Steven! I have a question though, what differences are there if you are tanning a fur? I guess no liming and really no soaking it in water for long? Just go straingh into strong liquor after scraping the gunk off?
Preferably flesh some if it's not going to damage the hair. It has to start tanning quckly, so on the stronger side, or at least build up the strength quickly. You don't want it to be ridiculously strong or it could case harden. The more you move it around, handle it, reflesh, stretch or move it in any way, the faster it will tan. it should flesh easier as it tans, so refleshing a couple times early on should help it tan quickly. In my experience, tannin sets the hair well, but I haven't done bark tan hair on hides that much. It may also color the hair some.
Thanks! That is some great tips
@@SkillCult Hello Steven! From my experience, the only way I can be sort-of-sure that hair will not slip, is to strech and dry the hide completely before putting in in the bark solution. It seems to really lock the hair in.
Another thing is that the extra spent solution can be kept in a seperate container and then used for deliming (not for furs, naturally) instead of vinegar or other fermented stuff. That's what I do anyway (I know vinegar is cheap. still.)
Thanks for weighing in Nimrod. I don't recall having any fur slip in bark liquor, but I don't do it much. I also have access to a lot of good strong material and liquor. ... and it's probably a lot hotter there.
Hey Steve. In our traditions, my people use boiled pomegranate peel as an efficient tanning solution. I've seen leather that had been tanned a century ago. This leather is in use since then, yet still like new. The leather, however, is with pale color the thing that I don't like. Any suggestions to turn the color into dark-brown or reddish color? Thanks!
Yes, pomegranate is a common tanning and leather dyeing material in North Africa and the Middle east. You can try other tanning materials. Most of them are darker. Traditionally light colored leather is valued, because it can be dyed any color. Just try a small test piece. This article I wrote has a list of tanning materials for all over the world. You can probably find some others that grow in your region that are darker and test a small scrap of skin. Make the tea strong and use it cold, don't cook the leather in it. skillcult.com/blog/tanningmaterials
@@SkillCult Thanks a lot. I will be testing these materials in my next hide.
How long does the entire process take on average from after the animal is skinned to the time the hide is fully preserved and usable?
All depends on the size of the fur/hide and the method used
I am bark tanning a lamb hide. After 3 days the skin started getting these black spots all over it. The strength of my bark liquor is still strong but the black spots are progressing. What is it and can I remove the spots?
Hard to say what that is. Iron with blacken when it meets tannic acid, so that is always a possibility.
Maybe I am sort of nasty by I think tasting ( as opposed to drinking, haha) is a really good method to tell the strength of the bark solution. I have this cattle hide in a oak bark tan solution (european oak, Quercus robur) which is very foggy so it is quite hard to tell the strength. Yesterday I tried to taste it. Actually, it doesn't to bad, lol! It somewhat acidic and has kind of a fruity fermented taste, but no bitternes or astringency so I conclude that it is very depleted. On the other hand, the freshly cooked liquid is very bitter and is very astringent, and is overpowering the underlying acidiness. So to conclude, I reckon that tannins tastewise are characterized by bitternes and astringency so our tastebuds are a pretty good measuring device to tell if in doubt
Very likely that has been done a lot. I remember one morrocan tanner saying that he gargles with the solutions they use, but I think it might have been the bate even, which is fermented pigeon dung. He claimed it was good for you lol.
Steven was that u pushing the wheelbarrow @ the end of the vid...? Couldn't miss the length of hair on the said person ...
I'm not seeing a wheelbarrow, but probably.
Thank you! But what if you buy veg tanned leather and want to dye it with natural dyes. How to do this? I tried without success. Do you have an experience in doing this? If yes I would really appreciate if you share it. Hope you will answer. :)
I can't really help with that. There isn't a ton of old info on traditional leather dyeing.
Thank you so much for for the answer. It is a deer skin. Do you think it is too late to get more bark to add? This is the third time I have dumped out the liqour and added about seven pots of new liquor. I have been recording videos on the process as I do it so I could give a first time perspective on the process. I will post these and link them here for anyone interested. Maybe my video can be a good what not to do video :( From the looks your liquor is a bit darker than mine. what confuses me most is that the mason jar of liquor was enough for the test pieces with no mold or stink. but they did suction shut so maybe it was an access to air or heat thing. Unfortunately here in Kansas woodmills are not very common and most wood they cut is cotton wood which by the looks wouldn't be great for tanning. I tried tasting it and it didn't have much puckering to it.
Hey Jack, have you tried shredding the bark really fine? Like running it through a woodchipper/leaf shredder. I used bark from trees that had been burned in a forest fire and I found that shredding the bark produced really strong liquor. I also added shredded bark to the tanning vat.
@@cuankorsten I have not but I chopped it to be very small most of it smaller than my thumb and a decent amount of it became dust. how fine did your chipper make it?
It's more than anything about the thickness cut across the grain. A chip the size of your thumb is fine if it's thin, but a chunk the size of a thumb isn't so great. I always try to chop across the bark grain a little, rather than with it.
Check out my article on tanning materials on my blog. It should have some cottonwoods or poplars in there. Willow works. Osage orange wood maybe. Look through the list, maybe you'll find something. Defnitely add, but this time do the double boil using the same liquid for two batches of new bark to get some concentrated liquor this time.
@@SkillCult wait osage orange like hedgewood? we have tons of that here. I did look through your list and a lot of that stuff is here The hard part is finding stuff that I would be allowed to harvest. I tasted some live oak bark and the stuff seems intensely stronger than mine was pucker wise. I am searching nearby woods for a tree people wouldn't miss if it were gone. Hard to find in the suburbs and I don't want to cut down a big one. At the same time I think you said they have to be older in that article. I will make sure to change the way I cut them. I was switching between with and against grain.
For anyone who can’t find the time or just doesn’t want do the work you can buy pure tannic acid in powdered form to dilute and use.
There are also full bark and wood extracts. people ask about that stuff sometimes, but I'm always trying to push the ground-up approach.
I would like to use bark that I cut myself for my deer hides. But I’ve got a full cow hide and I just don’t have access to enough bark that I know hasn’t sat on the ground and been rained on.
takes quite bit of good bark for cattle skin. I usually round my cattle now and only tan the best middle parts.
Its tempting but I think I want to stick with harvesting locally.
How do you wet tan
Is your book on tanning available yet?
No. I'm not sure I'll ever get that done or not. If you mean the bark tanning one. I hope to get the buckskin book back in print soon.
@@SkillCult okay, I'm just starting to learn about tanning and your videos are the absolute best in my opinion for a beginner to start understanding how it's done.
I have dark spots like black on my deer hides,is that bad week bark liquor
I couldn't say. Iron stains can cause black spots.
I've been trying look into the question I have for the past few hours and no one can tell me how to identify the status of my tan theough smell, they all say "it should have a thick earthy smell" but that doesnt tell anyone anything. Mines been seemingly going fine for about two weeks in a bark solution, no odd smells, poured a bit of concentrate in it every day for the past two weeks, except for last night, up until today it just smelled like tree bark, but today it has a hint of cattle shit to the smell... which to me still counts as earthy, but it doesnt smell sulfur-like or particularly rotten. No article I've found has given any context to this, and I'm unaware of whether or not I should take the loss (it was a free pelt, so there is none) and dump it all out, or if theres something that can be done on the cheaper side of free, since free is kinda the point of this.
It's very difficult to describe smells involved. There can be a fermented smell that is quite strong, but it is not fecal or putrid. A good clue that it is going bad is a think fillm that forms on the top. It's a very thin film that breaks up easily. I also rely on color a lot.
Hey bud did you ever come out with that book?
I'm sorry to say no and don't hold your breath lol.
I totally would have bought one whether or not I would actually go into leather work like that. It’s really interesting.
Is the chrome compound they use in industry pretty nasty, and does it vastly weaken the product
It is quite toxic, for people and environmentally. The prevalence of chrome tanning is probably the main reason that most tanning is done overseas now where there are lax or non-existent environmental laws. th-cam.com/video/a0UCeTjhSJI/w-d-xo.html As far as I know, it makes very good leather. Or it can. Much of the problem with cheap low quality leather I'm pretty sure has more to do with expedients that increase tanning speed. So if you use stuff that prepares the hide quickly, or makes it very soft if that is a goal, damage the skin, but it's profitable to get hides moved through as quick as possible. But almost all good boot leather is chrome tanned. Its somewhat ironic that chrome tanning probably saved a lot of trees and environmental devastation, but instead it just created a new kind, with tanneries in the new age of chemistry dumping that stuff into waterways. Entire waterways basically died. Then along come environmental regs to fix that and most tanning was then outsourced. Most U.S. hides are not put into shipping containers to other countries like India. Not a real solution. A real solution would probably involve growing tanning materials using the outflow of a sustainable, non-toxic tannery instead of wasting it. One of my pet projects I'd like to do is working on a sustainable tannery model where the tannery is the hub of a range of offshoot businesses all of which use resources from the tannery, and or support the tannery, like raising animals, farming or growing more tanning material. Get me a few million dollars and I'll get right on that :)
does Aspen bark have enough tannins to tan a hide?
I can't remember, but probably. IF it's not very strong you might have to boil double batches in the same water or something. Check the stuff I published here skillcult.com/blog/tanningmaterials .
have you done a hide by salting it then using little bit of vegetable oil and sandpaper on the hide why the hide is stretched on a board and the board is 45° away from the fire.
No, that doesn't sound very promising.
@@SkillCult i have done it with a rabbit hide
What will happen if you don’t flesh the hide?
It will have meat and fat on it.
Would black walnuts work for tanning
Yes, but from what I've gathered, it takes a lot more material than better stuff like good barks or sumach.
@@SkillCult ok
Hi sir I am leather technician I know chamois leather process
How do you skin the hide if it's starting to dry and harden from the cold??? I have been skinning the hide and leaving it in my shed over night but I have left some spots that I tried to do today but it's to hardened and dry now. What do I do???? Please help
i think you might mean fleshing. You can rub water on the flesh side, then put a wet towel over it to soak it back up.
@@SkillCult yes lol I did mean fleshing lol
I did try that but it is too cold outside that it just freezes up and doesn't really work. Should I bring it inside. I just feel like that is kinda a messy job for inside and I was afraid that if it warms up too much it will start going bad. I don't know, Thanks for the help too.
sounds like your only option, just pick the coolest spot you can.
or move lol.
What is happening when a hide turns translucent/see through after tanning?
fi that is when it's dry, and it is hard, it is probably not actually tanned. sounds like rawhide. It takes a lot of tannin to tan a hide through. Otherwise, not sure.
@@SkillCult even after a breaking and oiling, it dried back out and turned clear again. I'm at loss and this one will go down as unsuccessful.
@@mistermacgray it's soft and still clear? that would be totally wierd.
@@SkillCult stiff as a board. Never had any pelt do it. Took the hair off. Did everything as you are supposed to do. It's like raw hide, it won't take in oil either in its clear form
@@mistermacgray It's just rawhide, not tanned. what did you tan it in? You need to use more if it was bark or other tannin source.
I made this mistake, gosh the leather smells like shit... Is there anything I can do to fix them??
Make a strong liquor and throw out the old solution. just put it into a strong liquor if tanning has proceeded a bit and it's colored all over. If not, then ease into it like I describe here. Just do it as soon as possible.
@@SkillCult thanks man
salt water bark wait.
Thanks Steven. Must read this blog post. Those god awful tree of heaven sumacs are everywhere here.
I remember tree of heaven showing up in the list of tanning materials. That stuff really stinks though. I hate it. I don't think it's a sumach though. Unless common names re different. wht we call tree of heaven here smells like rotten peanut butter kind of.
@@SkillCult yes sir, that's it. Also known as stinking sumac. Lol
@Grant Parlier yes, we have staghorn and smooth sumac here as well. Stinking sumac may be a misnomer, I don't know. I'm interested in them as a tanning agent because they're invasive.
By liquor does he mean whiskey? (Spent whiskey is pee.) I have not yet tried to tan a hide, I guess I used too much coppertone?
"Big suck phase" is also a part of human relationships.
Saw the thumbnail, I should call her, everything reminds me of her 🤣🤣🤣
lol
I use ivory soap to soften. Just kinda leary about brains .
Egg yolks are good too.
I don't know what it is about that smoky aroma of a well-brain-tanned hide that is so wonderful, though. Mmm. Good stuff. Haven't done it myself, though!
can you make some brain tanning videos?
Maybe. I'm hoping to get the braintanning book back in print by this fall and I'll probably make a bunch of videos that support the book.
I've found that the best way to avoid problems is to add a small amount of alum to the bark liquor
never heard of that.
@@SkillCult alum is an acid and it can be used alone for tanning. What I usually do it put the fresh skin in a brine with alum overnight to set the hair then the next day pour out half and refill with bark liquor. Ever since I started doing that I stopped having problems with hair slippage
Yeah, I've use alum, but I don't know anyone who combination tans like that. I've found strong bark solution to set hair well. I have an old account of plains Indian women putting oak bark on buffalo robes to remedy hair slippage.
First comment!
You win! yay for small victories, sometimes they are the only ones we get!
2toSabbath
Thur13Apr2023
AmesIAUSA
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• How about using salted egg whites as a leather presever/softener?
Have you ever heard of it?
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I have not. Egg yolks are used in tanning, but if egg whites have any use, it would probably just be for some kind of finishing. It's the fatty acids in eggs that can condition leather. Egg whites are just protein.