00:00:00 Intro 00:09:57 yami's take: a BLG win might actually be better for LoL esports in the long-term 00:31:30 Pagoda snack break! 00:35:50 aztecz's take: pro league is riding on Faker and T1's back 00:52:55 dctheking's take: maybe T1's "secret" is their ability to adapt to the meta efficiently 01:08:18 PrizePicks break! 01:12:25 evies take: Riot needs to divert more effort into making LPL accessible to new viewers 01:37:30 icebreaker wants to talk NA roster rumors, expects offseason drama around salaries 01:57:10 numiii is disappointed by an underwhelming Fanfest in London 02:08:15 Outro
Faker is the GOAT of League of Legends for a reason. Does it feel discouraging for others to stay in his shadow? Maybe. But who deserves the spotlight more than the most dominant, consistent player to ever grace the game? Faker’s an enigma-unassuming, humble, and yet untouchable in skill and legacy. That combination makes him unique, not just in League but in all of esports, and it’s why he’s earned every bit of attention he gets. The esports world wouldn’t be the same without him.
Having players stay on a team for a longer period of time is honestly such a good thing for marketing purposes. T1 has done a really good job of marketing the other players and turning what could have been just Faker's team into ZOFGK with the brotherhood storyline and shining a light on Zeus, Oner, Guma and Keria and making them stars in their own ways. For example there are so many people cheering for Keria to get his Lux skin and even last year so many people wanted not only Faker to win his 4th title but ZOGK to win their first too after seeing the heartbreak of the 2022 loss with the videos of Keria crying (and also the paralells of Faker crying in 2017). The important part is that they have stayed together and also have do end up having results at the biggest tournament of the year even tho their results during regular season might be mediocre by the team's standards. G2 is kind of similar in my opinion who have done a really good job of marketing the roster they have (who unfortunately is not staying together in its entirety) along with having Europe's superstar player Caps. But also let's bring it back to MSI 2024 where G2 had top notch content and really managed to gather a lot of fans even in China and internationally, wasn't that the first time ever when T1 actually managed to lose a fan vote.
T1 winning is not a done deal. Also, a dominant team is also good for competition where people default to rooting for the underdogs against T1. It's actually bad for viewership to have too many one off teams/players.
Completely agree. I was thinking about this earlier. I love underdogs and nothing makes more underdogs than an empire. Also, not sure why they never reference Tom Brady when comparing faker to other sports. How many people watched over Brady’s era entirely to either see Brady succeed or fail? Did the NFL collapse after Brady left? No. People started talking about Mahomes before Brady retired. Does game viewership boost and tank based on circumstances beyond the gameplay? Of course. People will fill the void when it is created. If all you do is watch because of Faker, he’ll probably be a coach or something after he’s done playing. Maybe some people will never come back to watch after Faker, whenever that is, but will the esport really be worse off for the people who only watched when Faker was involved? He’s not involved in a vast majority of the pro LoL matches every year. Certainly those same people aren’t typically watching the LCS, LEC, or LPL.
BLG winning isn't necessarily good for LoL e-sports, like, that's not a thing. Reminder that T1 did lose before. And what happened to the teams that beat T1? Yeah, they didn't find great success to take Faker's place. Not even close. I understand the logic behind it, but it's not just about winning this Worlds, it's about finding long-term success. One-hit wonders are quickly forgotten. Faker's success is built over the years. He didn't become a superstar after winning Worlds in 2013. Yes, he was hyped on debut, he way hyped going into Worlds, he was hyped for everything he achieved that year, but he didn't become a superstar from those. For those who haven't been watching that long, SKT was to be relegated from OGN into NLB, the secondary tournament. They were playing the promotion/demotion matches and luckily managed to win to stay on OGN, otherwise back in 2014, they were due to be relegated. Who was talking about Faker then? Faker came back in 2015, new roster, SKT took Worlds again, took 2016 Worlds again, reached finals again in 2017 Worlds. That's the kind of success he had before he was lifted onto a pedestal. Winning Worlds have done nothing for other players except allow them to catch a large money bag from a team that's out scouting for them. This is a long term thing, not a "I beat T1 and won Worlds once" thing. Also, before there's someone who can remotely take Faker's place, T1/Faker should not fall, because you're leaving a massive void to be filled, so BLG winning isn't actually helpful. People like Faker because people like a hero, a champion, someone who wins. Love or hate, you are watching Faker, whether you want to watch him win or watch him lose. When the hero is gone, even the haters don't have a figure to watch, that's the problem of wanting BLG to win. Also, why is everyone talking about the next messiah of League when Faker retires being Chovy, Knight, Bin, whatever? T1 has five members, Faker is only one. Why is no one considering the other four members? If anything, the successor of Faker is within T1. If T1 wins this Worlds, aside from Faker and Bengi, the other four members will be the only players in League to have won Worlds back to back. That is an achievement far closer to succeeding Faker than anyone else can achieve this year, so no, BLG winning isn't necessarily helping, if anything, T1 winning will actually help more. Also, branding wise, the other members of T1 have gone a lot further than players of any other team at this point. The whole T1 team has been on TV programs on national television in Korea. They're creating fan moments. Remember when Faker ate the broccoli and did his roly poly? Would've been laughed at if he lost the matches after doing those, but he didn't, and that's why people cherish those moments, because he won after doing those things. Well, Gumayusi talking about croissants and eating a giant one on stage has created that moment. If he wins this Worlds, that will be marked. Keria, last year, him being a big fan of New Jeans, had to win semi-finals to meet them, he won, met them, won Worlds, and now that has become a thing and people will remember the New Jeans buff. The successor of Faker, fortunately/unfortunately, is unlikely to be an enemy of Faker's that can beat him, it will most likely be his teammates, and right now, T1 are en route to building that status for the other four members. As long as this roster stays with T1, continues to find success, a few years down the line and they'll be carrying the mantle. Honestly, for players like Chovy and Bin to start building that status now is too late. A few years down the line, they've not even achieved it, and they'll be announcing retirement, whereas the T1 members are halfway there if they win this Worlds, and they can still succeed Faker before they retire.
I think you're right, but just remember that any player who plays with Faker will be judged by that as well. Even if Guma wins three rings with Faker, they will be considered "T1 wins." I think someone needs to win without faker for popular sentiment to shift to them.
@@Jacob-vk2xg I agree, and that's why I said it's half way there, not fully there. What needs to happen is, for success to be built with Faker, then when Faker retires, the success continues. Suppose T1 wins this Worlds, they're two-time champions. Faker announces retirement, they go on to win another Worlds (not necessarily the next) and become three-time Worlds champions, matching Bengi and this was done without Faker? No one can deny their success and they'll be in prime position to succeed Faker's legacy. So I absolutely agree, someone needs to win without Faker, but that doesn't mean they can't have won with Faker before, so the other T1 members definitely shouldn't be counted out. If anything, a transition like that is a lot healthier for the scene than for Faker to disappear and the next person to spend the next five years trying to build up to that status. There's no guarantee they will succeed, and given the current state of the pro scene, League will not last five years without Faker. It's financially unsustainable with how big it's grown and every major region is having issues. Even LCK, the most stable region, had to introduce salary caps to prevent it from being susceptible to collapse. LPL is in dire straits, as claimed by EDG, and other teams have hinted at this. LCS and LEC go without saying.
@@DanteLovesPizza Totally agree. I do wonder how strong the T1 players are without Faker (Poby incident--although this could have also coincided with a team-wide slump) so they might need a year or so to develop their macro without him, but I think Guma especially could win without him. He's just so consistent and has an iron-clad mental game.
Very good take! 👍🏻 It's not usual that i finish reading a long comment. I agree with you that Faker's success is build over a long time, over a series of consistent wins at the highest level. And the next possible successor of Faker can't be a one time wonder. That person have to be at least that consistent and show success over a few years in order to establish that star status. And such a status really can't be given, it has to be earned.
I really like Nymaera's point (16:17) about wanting to know more about the other members of T1. We had the iconic Guma interview with the "Its goood" moment. I'm glad that Oner was actually able to say something in a Worlds Teaser rather than just mog everyone. Yes Faker is the goat and he brings in the views, but for those who don't watch all the T1 content and such, to see more about the other members.
@@parrenokylejosellec.8639 I'm talking about the general public's perception of T1 at Worlds. T1 fans are already watching that content, but for those who just watch Worlds, all they know and hear about is Faker.
T1 Fans are already seeing that content. I'm talking about the general public's perception of T1 at worlds and how the other players are a little under represented (Guma interview was great). I miss the behind the scene content they used to do. The "Eyes on" Series from 6 years ago. More people see it and it isn't dependent on individual orgs to create content.
I'm not worried about League after Faker retires. Yes, there will be a need for a new face, and I truly believe that face can only be from T1 to be accepted globally. It probably won't be the first new mid laner (I feel bad for him in advance), but it could be one of the current members if they stick around for a few more years and perform well. Once they find a new mid laner who clicks with T1, a new era for LoL will begin.
First thing I hear: T1 winning is expected, so it’s boring. Wait, what? They told us for months that BLG and GenG were sure to win. But now that T1 is in the finals out of nowhere, esports is in danger? I hope T1 wins and does it again for the next two years because dynasties are what make competition legendary, not crying babies who want to quit if their team doesn't perform at Worlds. That’s one of the stupidest takes I’ve heard.
Same here. Shouldn’t it be the team win because they are good. If this is the case you know what would be great for the lol esport, if a really bad NA team with all new player win world
We should make LOL into WWE. If GenG won t1 they deserve to go to the finals. All this people that say t1 bad and shouldn’t make it to the final are not really LOL fan. They just hating
They all fallow every other influencers that hate the team/faker fan. You know what riot should do after the final is over, have two bo5 that everyone vote for and the winner should get a trophy that say better luck next year
Chovy is a great player, even better at laning and mechanic than faker. But even chovy lagg the ability to macro. Chovy need someone to tell him to where to be
To be honest if Zeus does leave t1, chovy should join t1 and just play top lane. Learn from faker and wait till faker retire and then switch back to mid.
There is history behind that particular photo 1) faker had amazing 2017 worlds before the finals. Many people commented that he was dragging a t1 team that was on fire. So him breaking down was very impactful 2) wolf wasn't captured. How were fans supposed to know?
Exactly, if you don’t capture the struggles, stories and trials of these players how are we supposed to know? Wolf was chugging anti-anxiety pills for 2 years straight due to the pressure of that team, he was also there for 3 worlds finals
I think a lot of players has been hyped too, a lot of new narratives and stories has been sold to the lol community, the caps during 2019 when they eliminated t1, showmaker when he won worlds and when damwon eliminated t1 during worlds 2020 and 2021, then drx winning in 2022 zeka was sold too but then not a lot of people wants to consume it. In regards to the other team mates of Faker, they have their own fanbase, T1 is marketing them individually, Oner has his own documentary as well as Gumayusi, and most probably if Keria and Zeus will re-sign they'll have their own documentaries too. From what I can see, T1 fans dont have an issue with blg, they even love the Bin and Zeus bromance. I think, they've had an issue with some GenG fans, just how GenG fans have problems with some T1 fans, maybe because some fans are mocking Faker especially when his vulnerable video went viral, and they keep on disrespecting him like his 11 year career is below what Chovy has accomplished in his career, then some T1 fans whonare being toxic towards GenG and Chovy too.
End of the day, it is up to other organizations to pick up the slack to beat T1. They had NO RIGHT getting this far with how they have played this year. Fans want something exciting to happen, but it should rest on the shoulders of other teams stepping up. You want to make fans believe? Win. League of Legends Esports will get a Lebron eventually, but first, someone needs to start winning.
BLG win being better for lol esports may be the single wackest take ive ever had the misfortune of hearing in my life... As if faker winning a 5th title and perhaps the greatest single roster ever assembled (ZOFGK) getting their 2nd would somehow be 'bad' for lol esports. Same energy as saying Tom Brady winning his 7th ring was 'bad' for American football. Crazy take
In any sports, popularity of the whole league is driven by dominance, people actually like seeing teams dominating; Jordan Bulls/Kobe and Shaq Lakers/Man United/Real Madrid in UCL so I totally disagree with the first take.
Travis: "Big shout out and Thank you to our subs, ... 'The Gnoblet' .. 'PeePeeDoc' ... 'Troglodyte Toes' ... Cubby: [Busy setting up call-ins on discord] Nymaera: .... *hears usernames* "what??? ..." 9:44 Had me dying. Always love hearing Travis read Twitch Chat's wild usernames every show with a normal expression on his face and in a normal tone. 😆😆😆
I started watching both LPL and LCK Spring 2020, and later when I was no longer finding the time to keep up with both, LPL was the one I found more interesting and stuck with. Huge thanks to Nymaera for keeping the English coverage of that going. Been a fan of Knight since I started watching and hope he can get the trophy this weekend!
MY FAVORITE GUEST! I enjoy worlds episodes most because there's more to talk about. Keeping it to LCS feels like the topics have gotten stale after so long.
That part about lpl and the lack of coverage was the best part of the episode imo really opened my eyes to the lack of coverage of china league that i just didn’t realize was happening.
its crazy with how big League is in China they give the fewest resources to the english broadcast. its like casting the LPL is just a stepping stone for entry to other regions hence why all past LPL casters move on to LCK/ LEC/ etc.
It's because LPL and their clubs historically had no interest in getting revenue from outside China because their internal market is already very large. Also CCP is always watching, so media companies need to be careful.
T1 is exciting because they don't sit and scale.They go in and risk it all and somehow they pull it off.High risk high reward which is what makes it exciting to watch
I am so happy that Travis got sponsored. It brings me so much joy that he is being funded and that this content continues. HOWEVER, going forward I hope that he can work in stipulations in the sponsorships that will allow him to NOT eat directly into the microphone.
But in the LCK, it's not just payment from their own team sponsors. Successful teams, like T1, will also get commercial sponsorship (i.e., Ralph Lauren Korea, other willing sponsors) which end up being much more lucrative, aside from what they get paid from their own team owners/sponsors.
Yes Faker is carrying and without a doubt. But honestly not because he’s faker, rather the guy who we all know that he loved league so much and all the dedication. We love Faker and in a way we just love him for representing the league that we love.
I think the idea that "the worlds patch was good for T1" severely underplays the importance of the worlds patch. Yes, it was good for T1, but it was also good for the fans and literally all the teams that aren't GenG. You think anybody wants to sit there watching 3-5 games of Smolder, Tristana, & Ziggs perma-pushing, taking towers and slowly bleeding out enemy team with mininal fighting? The average/casual viewer won't. If they were playing on the last patch, that hype 5 game back to back between FLY and GenG turns into a 3 game stomp. In fact all of GenG's matches would turn into 3 game stomps. So IMHO, the proper framing of the worlds patch should be that "it gave teams a chance against GenG"
The weird thing is, is that GenG was really good in last season too when it wasn't an ADC mid meta. I think Chovy just got too comfortable sitting behind his Allstar team this year and auto attacking people to death that he forgot he needs to make plays when they are down.. Game 4 is a perfect example, GenG win that big fight at dragon and go to take baron, the fight was lost but Faker still dives in to try and make a play. A few minutes later when the series ending fight goes down Chovy is so far away from the fight he isn't even on the screen, and then he just gets chased down and dies.. Game 3 too. He had a huge CS lead and was up in gold, but wad on the opposite side of the map from Faker and T1 slaughtering his team the whole game
@@chrissears5482 They are good with slow meta that's why even last year as the days pass on the meta shifted to slow to a more chaotic volatile meta that exposed just how reliant GenG is to slow meta, it's no different now.
I definitely didn't want Faker to retire just yet... 2025 new format is something that will really give players who have huge champ pool a benefit They really need to think hard even before match 1 picks and bans because it influence on what champ you can pick for match 2, match 3 and so on And maybe we will see Faker using Zed, Ryze and LeBlanc again
what Nymaera said about the first take of the episode about teams defeating T1 is also what Bin has been saying i think the whole tournament about wanting to reach finals, win worlds and defeat T1. 21:17 I'm not sure i entirely agree with Cubbyxx about BLG being the strongest opponent T1 has had to face outside of GENG in the past 3 years. I think it's a toss up between JDG 2023 and BLG.
@@Kagari-j4k completely agree, arguably the strongest (combining roster on paper + performance) team of all time, each player was at least top 2 in the world in their position that season, up until that match against T1
BLG losing is bad for future LPL viewership. You know the Chinese fans are already calling it either a new page in history or literal Armageddon of LPL. Since last year which 4 LPL teams got destroyed by T1, the viewership dipped quite a lot. Then losing MSI and EWC escalated the downfall... I'm speaking as a T1 fan but I wanted at least a competitive finals, unlike last year.
bruh even t1 fans cant even get their hands on merch bc it sells out in less than 1min on their site. theres no way theyd be even able to hold a merch shop at a fan fest lol altho at msi 2024 (china) and worlds 2023 (kr), t1 did have booths there, so i guess the proximity + cost is another factor tht so many ppl discount
Great work as always Travis ! What are we considering better for LoL esports ? Better would be if teams can get an ability to reach their audience worldwide throught LoL client, make decent money out of it and continue competing, so the sport itself wouldn't die because of teams can't make money. That will make teams be able to make rosters not focusing on short term profit, and the scene would be way more competitive. Will LPL win save LPL teams in terms of financial crisis they are facing right now ? No I don't belive it will. Will any other team besides T1 change the situation in any other region siginifcantly enought so LCS for example (or any region that other team is from ) starts to be profitable and can restore academy scene and make competition better so more players can do it full time wich will make the teams better overall ? No I don't belive that anything besides Riot games taking actions and giving team avenue to sell stuff inside the client itself will help the sport to be more profitable, and more sustainable. So no No matter what team wins we are at the sunset of LoL esports if Riot doen't make changes. Sadly we don't know the numbers, but I don't belive that all those viewers are translating to that much sales for any of worlds sponsors. Like we get more and more people watching it, but does LCK (not Rion as a company as a whole) for example get more money out of it so thay can do the prodaction ? Does LPL get more money to keep this mega legue going when for couple of years they are cuttiing costs. Just look at the bare bones LEC. So while T1 (and this roster as a whole) can make a shit ton of viewers, I don't balive those translate to supporting Esports scene anywhere besides LCK. And even in LCK even GenG are talking about not being profitable as an org for a couple of years. If people in the west will be able to watch LPL will it get LPL more money ? Cause I don't think it will and I don't think that Riot wanna invest in making it possible for LPL eng broadcast to be at least self sustainable. Riot wants money for Riot, LoL esports is a side gig that gets them marketing and they cut costs in any league they can.
What cubby said about charging co streamers for rights could work, keep the current free model but also have a pay model that grants access to the raw feed commentary free which might give way to casting more lpl games that arent covered by the english broadcast
i have a fear that, when faker retires and if a super strategic macro team like geng will start dominate. we will se the same drop of excitement for lol esport as csgo saw with astralis "the greatest of all fucking time" era.
Why would t1 win be bad long term? the other teams just have to step up to defeat them its that simple. so t1 should just stop playing so other teams can feel good ?
Icebreakers take sparks a convo : so teams are cheaping out and practicly ff out the gate because of money for roster building. So we will have the top 3 Fly, TL and C9/100T. Other than TL and FLY its a cluster of mediocre players on teams with no ambition it seems. I would love seeing a colab with na and eu top 4 making a 8 team s+ league instead.
Me when Cubby suggests that costreamers should be charged a fee for broadcasting rights: "LOUDER" (seriously I've been saying this ever since costreaming even began, minimum a flat fee, in an ideal world a fee that scales with viewership numbers)
Bro wtf id boring about t1 3-0 blg here's the difference between t1 worlds run to other team world run its simple things the passion and the story of this organization represent life on people and what is greatmest truly about and its not like t1 come on worlds always the top team that's why its more magical when you see damn fighting the challenges to be on top and pretty much all members are gigachad and rizz masters by now so you can't blame damn why fans so love them my god are me blinding greatness of t1 again
I think China needs to put up more effort in making English more accessible. This is a country that shuns English, even in subtitles of western movies. All language needs to be in Chinese. In Korea, English is so accessible and thus makes it more palatable for Riot to come in and support the region there. Of course, it helps that Korea also has Faker and T1, the most popular LOL team in the world. So while I can understand the concern that Riot should have more accessibility for viewers in China for LOL, China also needs to succeed more often and at the highest levels AND make English a priority so that Riot can make an easier entry into accessibility.
I know Travis doesn’t really care about individual viewers but I can no longer watch his content. I am aware it’s a me problem but I cannot listen to him talk with food in his mouth anymore. Pagoda has been terrible for my enjoyment of this show
For Asia maybe I stopped watching LoL after 2020 the west is pure garbage now and it’s China vs Korea again what a snoozer. 2018 and 2019 were so exciting i couldn’t wait for MSI or Worlds and followed LCS and LEC super closely because I had hope that the team advancing would make it far at international events but nope when DWG won worlds I gave up on competitive League.
00:00:00 Intro
00:09:57 yami's take: a BLG win might actually be better for LoL esports in the long-term
00:31:30 Pagoda snack break!
00:35:50 aztecz's take: pro league is riding on Faker and T1's back
00:52:55 dctheking's take: maybe T1's "secret" is their ability to adapt to the meta efficiently
01:08:18 PrizePicks break!
01:12:25 evies take: Riot needs to divert more effort into making LPL accessible to new viewers
01:37:30 icebreaker wants to talk NA roster rumors, expects offseason drama around salaries
01:57:10 numiii is disappointed by an underwhelming Fanfest in London
02:08:15 Outro
Faker is the GOAT of League of Legends for a reason. Does it feel discouraging for others to stay in his shadow? Maybe. But who deserves the spotlight more than the most dominant, consistent player to ever grace the game? Faker’s an enigma-unassuming, humble, and yet untouchable in skill and legacy. That combination makes him unique, not just in League but in all of esports, and it’s why he’s earned every bit of attention he gets. The esports world wouldn’t be the same without him.
Having players stay on a team for a longer period of time is honestly such a good thing for marketing purposes. T1 has done a really good job of marketing the other players and turning what could have been just Faker's team into ZOFGK with the brotherhood storyline and shining a light on Zeus, Oner, Guma and Keria and making them stars in their own ways. For example there are so many people cheering for Keria to get his Lux skin and even last year so many people wanted not only Faker to win his 4th title but ZOGK to win their first too after seeing the heartbreak of the 2022 loss with the videos of Keria crying (and also the paralells of Faker crying in 2017). The important part is that they have stayed together and also have do end up having results at the biggest tournament of the year even tho their results during regular season might be mediocre by the team's standards.
G2 is kind of similar in my opinion who have done a really good job of marketing the roster they have (who unfortunately is not staying together in its entirety) along with having Europe's superstar player Caps. But also let's bring it back to MSI 2024 where G2 had top notch content and really managed to gather a lot of fans even in China and internationally, wasn't that the first time ever when T1 actually managed to lose a fan vote.
T1 winning is not a done deal. Also, a dominant team is also good for competition where people default to rooting for the underdogs against T1. It's actually bad for viewership to have too many one off teams/players.
Completely agree. I was thinking about this earlier. I love underdogs and nothing makes more underdogs than an empire.
Also, not sure why they never reference Tom Brady when comparing faker to other sports. How many people watched over Brady’s era entirely to either see Brady succeed or fail? Did the NFL collapse after Brady left? No. People started talking about Mahomes before Brady retired.
Does game viewership boost and tank based on circumstances beyond the gameplay? Of course. People will fill the void when it is created. If all you do is watch because of Faker, he’ll probably be a coach or something after he’s done playing.
Maybe some people will never come back to watch after Faker, whenever that is, but will the esport really be worse off for the people who only watched when Faker was involved? He’s not involved in a vast majority of the pro LoL matches every year. Certainly those same people aren’t typically watching the LCS, LEC, or LPL.
The Faker take reminds me of Medics iconic line “Form is temporary, Faker is forever.”
Kekw no one really expected T1 to win, not even every analyst in league and also, weren't everyone was trashing on T1 because they came as 4th
It wasn’t because they came in at 4th it’s because they looked awful going into worlds
@@antistaplays4240 yeah that too lmao.
BLG winning isn't necessarily good for LoL e-sports, like, that's not a thing. Reminder that T1 did lose before. And what happened to the teams that beat T1? Yeah, they didn't find great success to take Faker's place. Not even close. I understand the logic behind it, but it's not just about winning this Worlds, it's about finding long-term success. One-hit wonders are quickly forgotten.
Faker's success is built over the years. He didn't become a superstar after winning Worlds in 2013. Yes, he was hyped on debut, he way hyped going into Worlds, he was hyped for everything he achieved that year, but he didn't become a superstar from those. For those who haven't been watching that long, SKT was to be relegated from OGN into NLB, the secondary tournament. They were playing the promotion/demotion matches and luckily managed to win to stay on OGN, otherwise back in 2014, they were due to be relegated. Who was talking about Faker then?
Faker came back in 2015, new roster, SKT took Worlds again, took 2016 Worlds again, reached finals again in 2017 Worlds. That's the kind of success he had before he was lifted onto a pedestal. Winning Worlds have done nothing for other players except allow them to catch a large money bag from a team that's out scouting for them. This is a long term thing, not a "I beat T1 and won Worlds once" thing. Also, before there's someone who can remotely take Faker's place, T1/Faker should not fall, because you're leaving a massive void to be filled, so BLG winning isn't actually helpful. People like Faker because people like a hero, a champion, someone who wins. Love or hate, you are watching Faker, whether you want to watch him win or watch him lose. When the hero is gone, even the haters don't have a figure to watch, that's the problem of wanting BLG to win.
Also, why is everyone talking about the next messiah of League when Faker retires being Chovy, Knight, Bin, whatever? T1 has five members, Faker is only one. Why is no one considering the other four members? If anything, the successor of Faker is within T1. If T1 wins this Worlds, aside from Faker and Bengi, the other four members will be the only players in League to have won Worlds back to back. That is an achievement far closer to succeeding Faker than anyone else can achieve this year, so no, BLG winning isn't necessarily helping, if anything, T1 winning will actually help more. Also, branding wise, the other members of T1 have gone a lot further than players of any other team at this point. The whole T1 team has been on TV programs on national television in Korea. They're creating fan moments. Remember when Faker ate the broccoli and did his roly poly? Would've been laughed at if he lost the matches after doing those, but he didn't, and that's why people cherish those moments, because he won after doing those things. Well, Gumayusi talking about croissants and eating a giant one on stage has created that moment. If he wins this Worlds, that will be marked. Keria, last year, him being a big fan of New Jeans, had to win semi-finals to meet them, he won, met them, won Worlds, and now that has become a thing and people will remember the New Jeans buff.
The successor of Faker, fortunately/unfortunately, is unlikely to be an enemy of Faker's that can beat him, it will most likely be his teammates, and right now, T1 are en route to building that status for the other four members. As long as this roster stays with T1, continues to find success, a few years down the line and they'll be carrying the mantle. Honestly, for players like Chovy and Bin to start building that status now is too late. A few years down the line, they've not even achieved it, and they'll be announcing retirement, whereas the T1 members are halfway there if they win this Worlds, and they can still succeed Faker before they retire.
I think you're right, but just remember that any player who plays with Faker will be judged by that as well. Even if Guma wins three rings with Faker, they will be considered "T1 wins." I think someone needs to win without faker for popular sentiment to shift to them.
@@Jacob-vk2xg
I agree, and that's why I said it's half way there, not fully there.
What needs to happen is, for success to be built with Faker, then when Faker retires, the success continues.
Suppose T1 wins this Worlds, they're two-time champions. Faker announces retirement, they go on to win another Worlds (not necessarily the next) and become three-time Worlds champions, matching Bengi and this was done without Faker? No one can deny their success and they'll be in prime position to succeed Faker's legacy. So I absolutely agree, someone needs to win without Faker, but that doesn't mean they can't have won with Faker before, so the other T1 members definitely shouldn't be counted out. If anything, a transition like that is a lot healthier for the scene than for Faker to disappear and the next person to spend the next five years trying to build up to that status. There's no guarantee they will succeed, and given the current state of the pro scene, League will not last five years without Faker. It's financially unsustainable with how big it's grown and every major region is having issues. Even LCK, the most stable region, had to introduce salary caps to prevent it from being susceptible to collapse. LPL is in dire straits, as claimed by EDG, and other teams have hinted at this. LCS and LEC go without saying.
@@DanteLovesPizza for the 2nd time mind you, also if they win next years worlds they would have done what Jordan did with the bulls, a 3 peat.
@@DanteLovesPizza Totally agree. I do wonder how strong the T1 players are without Faker (Poby incident--although this could have also coincided with a team-wide slump) so they might need a year or so to develop their macro without him, but I think Guma especially could win without him. He's just so consistent and has an iron-clad mental game.
Very good take! 👍🏻 It's not usual that i finish reading a long comment. I agree with you that Faker's success is build over a long time, over a series of consistent wins at the highest level. And the next possible successor of Faker can't be a one time wonder. That person have to be at least that consistent and show success over a few years in order to establish that star status. And such a status really can't be given, it has to be earned.
I really like Nymaera's point (16:17) about wanting to know more about the other members of T1. We had the iconic Guma interview with the "Its goood" moment. I'm glad that Oner was actually able to say something in a Worlds Teaser rather than just mog everyone. Yes Faker is the goat and he brings in the views, but for those who don't watch all the T1 content and such, to see more about the other members.
There are already Gumayushi and Oner 1 Hour Documentary in T1 TH-cam.
@@parrenokylejosellec.8639 I'm talking about the general public's perception of T1 at Worlds. T1 fans are already watching that content, but for those who just watch Worlds, all they know and hear about is Faker.
T1 Fans are already seeing that content. I'm talking about the general public's perception of T1 at worlds and how the other players are a little under represented (Guma interview was great). I miss the behind the scene content they used to do. The "Eyes on" Series from 6 years ago. More people see it and it isn't dependent on individual orgs to create content.
I'm not worried about League after Faker retires. Yes, there will be a need for a new face, and I truly believe that face can only be from T1 to be accepted globally. It probably won't be the first new mid laner (I feel bad for him in advance), but it could be one of the current members if they stick around for a few more years and perform well. Once they find a new mid laner who clicks with T1, a new era for LoL will begin.
First thing I hear: T1 winning is expected, so it’s boring. Wait, what? They told us for months that BLG and GenG were sure to win. But now that T1 is in the finals out of nowhere, esports is in danger? I hope T1 wins and does it again for the next two years because dynasties are what make competition legendary, not crying babies who want to quit if their team doesn't perform at Worlds. That’s one of the stupidest takes I’ve heard.
Same here. Shouldn’t it be the team win because they are good. If this is the case you know what would be great for the lol esport, if a really bad NA team with all new player win world
We should make LOL into WWE. If GenG won t1 they deserve to go to the finals. All this people that say t1 bad and shouldn’t make it to the final are not really LOL fan. They just hating
They all fallow every other influencers that hate the team/faker fan. You know what riot should do after the final is over, have two bo5 that everyone vote for and the winner should get a trophy that say better luck next year
Chovy is a great player, even better at laning and mechanic than faker. But even chovy lagg the ability to macro. Chovy need someone to tell him to where to be
To be honest if Zeus does leave t1, chovy should join t1 and just play top lane. Learn from faker and wait till faker retire and then switch back to mid.
Patches are every two weeks, Cubby.
There is history behind that particular photo
1) faker had amazing 2017 worlds before the finals. Many people commented that he was dragging a t1 team that was on fire. So him breaking down was very impactful
2) wolf wasn't captured. How were fans supposed to know?
Exactly, if you don’t capture the struggles, stories and trials of these players how are we supposed to know?
Wolf was chugging anti-anxiety pills for 2 years straight due to the pressure of that team, he was also there for 3 worlds finals
This is the first time I've ever heard of Wolf throwing up after the finals.
@@AlexNymaeraHapgood
Yeah I agree with that.
I'm just saying it's not fans fault.
I think a lot of players has been hyped too, a lot of new narratives and stories has been sold to the lol community, the caps during 2019 when they eliminated t1, showmaker when he won worlds and when damwon eliminated t1 during worlds 2020 and 2021, then drx winning in 2022 zeka was sold too but then not a lot of people wants to consume it.
In regards to the other team mates of Faker, they have their own fanbase, T1 is marketing them individually, Oner has his own documentary as well as Gumayusi, and most probably if Keria and Zeus will re-sign they'll have their own documentaries too. From what I can see, T1 fans dont have an issue with blg, they even love the Bin and Zeus bromance. I think, they've had an issue with some GenG fans, just how GenG fans have problems with some T1 fans, maybe because some fans are mocking Faker especially when his vulnerable video went viral, and they keep on disrespecting him like his 11 year career is below what Chovy has accomplished in his career, then some T1 fans whonare being toxic towards GenG and Chovy too.
End of the day, it is up to other organizations to pick up the slack to beat T1. They had NO RIGHT getting this far with how they have played this year.
Fans want something exciting to happen, but it should rest on the shoulders of other teams stepping up. You want to make fans believe? Win.
League of Legends Esports will get a Lebron eventually, but first, someone needs to start winning.
BLG win being better for lol esports may be the single wackest take ive ever had the misfortune of hearing in my life... As if faker winning a 5th title and perhaps the greatest single roster ever assembled (ZOFGK) getting their 2nd would somehow be 'bad' for lol esports. Same energy as saying Tom Brady winning his 7th ring was 'bad' for American football. Crazy take
In any sports, popularity of the whole league is driven by dominance, people actually like seeing teams dominating; Jordan Bulls/Kobe and Shaq Lakers/Man United/Real Madrid in UCL so I totally disagree with the first take.
Travis: "Big shout out and Thank you to our subs, ... 'The Gnoblet' .. 'PeePeeDoc' ... 'Troglodyte Toes' ...
Cubby: [Busy setting up call-ins on discord]
Nymaera: .... *hears usernames* "what??? ..."
9:44 Had me dying. Always love hearing Travis read Twitch Chat's wild usernames every show with a normal expression on his face and in a normal tone. 😆😆😆
I started watching both LPL and LCK Spring 2020, and later when I was no longer finding the time to keep up with both, LPL was the one I found more interesting and stuck with. Huge thanks to Nymaera for keeping the English coverage of that going. Been a fan of Knight since I started watching and hope he can get the trophy this weekend!
MY FAVORITE GUEST! I enjoy worlds episodes most because there's more to talk about. Keeping it to LCS feels like the topics have gotten stale after so long.
MEMBERS ONLY PERK
flyquest!
That part about lpl and the lack of coverage was the best part of the episode imo really opened my eyes to the lack of coverage of china league that i just didn’t realize was happening.
its crazy with how big League is in China they give the fewest resources to the english broadcast. its like casting the LPL is just a stepping stone for entry to other regions hence why all past LPL casters move on to LCK/ LEC/ etc.
It's because LPL and their clubs historically had no interest in getting revenue from outside China because their internal market is already very large. Also CCP is always watching, so media companies need to be careful.
T1 is exciting because they don't sit and scale.They go in and risk it all and somehow they pull it off.High risk high reward which is what makes it exciting to watch
Ceadrel has said it in a stream, "No one can manage to follow in faker footsteps if he beats them all ."
Then why can’t he beat them regionally and at MSI?
@AlexNymaeraHapgood He defeats them where it matters most Worlds
@@ryzesteven7783 why can’t he beat them when it matters at MSI and regionally?
@AlexNymaeraHapgood Because it doesn't matter compared to Worlds, everyone ends up talking about how many times you've won Worlds.
I am so happy that Travis got sponsored. It brings me so much joy that he is being funded and that this content continues.
HOWEVER, going forward I hope that he can work in stipulations in the sponsorships that will allow him to NOT eat directly into the microphone.
But in the LCK, it's not just payment from their own team sponsors. Successful teams, like T1, will also get commercial sponsorship (i.e., Ralph Lauren Korea, other willing sponsors) which end up being much more lucrative, aside from what they get paid from their own team owners/sponsors.
I just got some Pagoda eggrolls at the grocery store, because I kept hearing about them on this show. If I keep hearing about them, I'll keep buying!
Yes Faker is carrying and without a doubt. But honestly not because he’s faker, rather the guy who we all know that he loved league so much and all the dedication. We love Faker and in a way we just love him for representing the league that we love.
Great episode, I always enjoy when Nymaera is on the show
I think the idea that "the worlds patch was good for T1" severely underplays the importance of the worlds patch. Yes, it was good for T1, but it was also good for the fans and literally all the teams that aren't GenG. You think anybody wants to sit there watching 3-5 games of Smolder, Tristana, & Ziggs perma-pushing, taking towers and slowly bleeding out enemy team with mininal fighting? The average/casual viewer won't. If they were playing on the last patch, that hype 5 game back to back between FLY and GenG turns into a 3 game stomp. In fact all of GenG's matches would turn into 3 game stomps. So IMHO, the proper framing of the worlds patch should be that "it gave teams a chance against GenG"
The weird thing is, is that GenG was really good in last season too when it wasn't an ADC mid meta. I think Chovy just got too comfortable sitting behind his Allstar team this year and auto attacking people to death that he forgot he needs to make plays when they are down.. Game 4 is a perfect example, GenG win that big fight at dragon and go to take baron, the fight was lost but Faker still dives in to try and make a play. A few minutes later when the series ending fight goes down Chovy is so far away from the fight he isn't even on the screen, and then he just gets chased down and dies.. Game 3 too. He had a huge CS lead and was up in gold, but wad on the opposite side of the map from Faker and T1 slaughtering his team the whole game
@@chrissears5482 They are good with slow meta that's why even last year as the days pass on the meta shifted to slow to a more chaotic volatile meta that exposed just how reliant GenG is to slow meta, it's no different now.
I definitely didn't want Faker to retire just yet...
2025 new format is something that will really give players who have huge champ pool a benefit
They really need to think hard even before match 1 picks and bans because it influence on what champ you can pick for match 2, match 3 and so on
And maybe we will see Faker using Zed, Ryze and LeBlanc again
Nymaera is a fantastic guest. Absolute pleasure to listen to.
THE TEAM DONT FEEL LIKE THAT, T1 PLAYERS LOVE each other, and Real T1 FAN LOVE EVERY PLAYERS, SO YEA🙏
17:29 Canyon
i just hope that T1 and BLG will give us a good fight.
I love being a Member :)
1st caller totally a t1 hater
what Nymaera said about the first take of the episode about teams defeating T1 is also what Bin has been saying i think the whole tournament about wanting to reach finals, win worlds and defeat T1.
21:17 I'm not sure i entirely agree with Cubbyxx about BLG being the strongest opponent T1 has had to face outside of GENG in the past 3 years. I think it's a toss up between JDG 2023 and BLG.
JDG 2023 is actually far stronger.
They were looking totally unstoppable until they met T1.
@@Kagari-j4k completely agree, arguably the strongest (combining roster on paper + performance) team of all time, each player was at least top 2 in the world in their position that season, up until that match against T1
Kinda insane to not mention Dom when discussing getting into the LPL
BLG losing is bad for future LPL viewership.
You know the Chinese fans are already calling it either a new page in history or literal Armageddon of LPL. Since last year which 4 LPL teams got destroyed by T1, the viewership dipped quite a lot. Then losing MSI and EWC escalated the downfall...
I'm speaking as a T1 fan but I wanted at least a competitive finals, unlike last year.
Hard disagree on the first take. Greatness makes sports.
Dang I really want to buy some T1 merch and rep it for Worlds, I'm going to be quite bummed if I can't buy any despite being in London
Can we get some different guests please?
Faker and t1 is like tom brady and the patriots.
Ozi is another player that everyone knows by name. How is he not brought up. obviously he's out now but still.
bruh even t1 fans cant even get their hands on merch bc it sells out in less than 1min on their site. theres no way theyd be even able to hold a merch shop at a fan fest lol altho at msi 2024 (china) and worlds 2023 (kr), t1 did have booths there, so i guess the proximity + cost is another factor tht so many ppl discount
Great work as always Travis !
What are we considering better for LoL esports ? Better would be if teams can get an ability to reach their audience worldwide throught LoL client, make decent money out of it and continue competing, so the sport itself wouldn't die because of teams can't make money. That will make teams be able to make rosters not focusing on short term profit, and the scene would be way more competitive. Will LPL win save LPL teams in terms of financial crisis they are facing right now ? No I don't belive it will. Will any other team besides T1 change the situation in any other region siginifcantly enought so LCS for example (or any region that other team is from ) starts to be profitable and can restore academy scene and make competition better so more players can do it full time wich will make the teams better overall ? No I don't belive that anything besides Riot games taking actions and giving team avenue to sell stuff inside the client itself will help the sport to be more profitable, and more sustainable. So no No matter what team wins we are at the sunset of LoL esports if Riot doen't make changes.
Sadly we don't know the numbers, but I don't belive that all those viewers are translating to that much sales for any of worlds sponsors. Like we get more and more people watching it, but does LCK (not Rion as a company as a whole) for example get more money out of it so thay can do the prodaction ? Does LPL get more money to keep this mega legue going when for couple of years they are cuttiing costs. Just look at the bare bones LEC. So while T1 (and this roster as a whole) can make a shit ton of viewers, I don't balive those translate to supporting Esports scene anywhere besides LCK. And even in LCK even GenG are talking about not being profitable as an org for a couple of years.
If people in the west will be able to watch LPL will it get LPL more money ? Cause I don't think it will and I don't think that Riot wanna invest in making it possible for LPL eng broadcast to be at least self sustainable.
Riot wants money for Riot, LoL esports is a side gig that gets them marketing and they cut costs in any league they can.
if the sport cant survive without Faker, then it doesn't deserve to.
Let’s all keep in mind that T1 had 3 chances to make it to worlds and they were 1 loss away from not going at all
so what?
What cubby said about charging co streamers for rights could work, keep the current free model but also have a pay model that grants access to the raw feed commentary free which might give way to casting more lpl games that arent covered by the english broadcast
i have a fear that, when faker retires and if a super strategic macro team like geng will start dominate. we will se the same drop of excitement for lol esport as csgo saw with astralis "the greatest of all fucking time" era.
Yes he is i don't even know why is it even a question
Im out of the loop as I haven’t watched in a few years. What happened to markZ?
We want tidy cats
Why would t1 win be bad long term? the other teams just have to step up to defeat them its that simple. so t1 should just stop playing so other teams can feel good ?
Icebreakers take sparks a convo : so teams are cheaping out and practicly ff out the gate because of money for roster building. So we will have the top 3 Fly, TL and C9/100T. Other than TL and FLY its a cluster of mediocre players on teams with no ambition it seems. I would love seeing a colab with na and eu top 4 making a 8 team s+ league instead.
Nymaera cant help but laugh rofl
Bring back relegation. Injection of new blood.
I agree LPL needs to be more accessible to all fans. also fix their audio quality. its god awful.
Me when Cubby suggests that costreamers should be charged a fee for broadcasting rights: "LOUDER" (seriously I've been saying this ever since costreaming even began, minimum a flat fee, in an ideal world a fee that scales with viewership numbers)
SIGH LPL BIASED ANALYST. DISLIKE
Ikr what a bozo
Bro wtf id boring about t1 3-0 blg here's the difference between t1 worlds run to other team world run its simple things the passion and the story of this organization represent life on people and what is greatmest truly about and its not like t1 come on worlds always the top team that's why its more magical when you see damn fighting the challenges to be on top and pretty much all members are gigachad and rizz masters by now so you can't blame damn why fans so love them my god are me blinding greatness of t1 again
I think China needs to put up more effort in making English more accessible. This is a country that shuns English, even in subtitles of western movies. All language needs to be in Chinese. In Korea, English is so accessible and thus makes it more palatable for Riot to come in and support the region there. Of course, it helps that Korea also has Faker and T1, the most popular LOL team in the world. So while I can understand the concern that Riot should have more accessibility for viewers in China for LOL, China also needs to succeed more often and at the highest levels AND make English a priority so that Riot can make an easier entry into accessibility.
I know Travis doesn’t really care about individual viewers but I can no longer watch his content. I am aware it’s a me problem but I cannot listen to him talk with food in his mouth anymore. Pagoda has been terrible for my enjoyment of this show
For Asia maybe I stopped watching LoL after 2020 the west is pure garbage now and it’s China vs Korea again what a snoozer. 2018 and 2019 were so exciting i couldn’t wait for MSI or Worlds and followed LCS and LEC super closely because I had hope that the team advancing would make it far at international events but nope when DWG won worlds I gave up on competitive League.
just because they arent your region that makes it a snoozer. what a racist
West needs to be better. 🤡
LMAO dude you don't represent the whole of your continent wake up.