Christians always forget a critical fact. In Luke it says the disciples were uneducated and couldn't read or write. I believe the Greek word is "agramaton" or "without letters." How did they use Aramaic and then translate it to Greek while illiterate? Never happened.
What nobody tells you is that the worms are the same size on Dune that they are here on earth. It’s the fact that the people of Dune are extremely tiny compared to the people on earth that’s hidden from us.
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer atheist religion? Your statement is flawed on so many levels… first, there are many more examples of religious genocides than not. Second, there are no good examples of authoritarian regimes, whether they be religious or secular. There are also no -none- examples of functional theocracies anywhere in history. However, there are plenty of examples of functional secular societies throughout history. When you apply religious beliefs to judge governments, you are already losing the argument.
This is so typical. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. They are experts in one thing: moving their make believe goalposts.
@@JimCastleberry "is not 'facts.'" how the f**k would you know...? All you ever post are infantile claims and lies, and you stupidly think they are "facts" You wouldn't know a fact if it pissed in your face...
@@JimCastleberry " You silly atheist clowns never do." Says the lying troll who has never proven a f**king thing... Moronically thinks doubling down on BS is somehow proof...
What weight does "they died for their beliefs" have? Many people die for stupid reasons. People in cults commit mass suicide, but that doesn't mean their leader is special. People fly airplanes into buildings but that doesn't mean Allah is real. People fall to their deaths because they think they can fly, but they couldn't. At best, all it shows is that they sincerely thought that this Jesus guy was special, but many people nowadays also believe he was special. That does not support in any way that he was divine.
Especially when there’s such scant evidence. Most of them disappeared entirely from reliable history, yet they just repeat the “They wouldn’t have died for something untrue” line without a moments thought. Like you say, even if it were true it wouldn’t be evidence of anything. At best you could get to “the ones that died probably believed it was true” which doesn’t tell you anything about whether it was true or not. Yet point out flaws in Islam, Scientology, or any other religion they don’t believe in and their critical thinking skills suddenly return to them. It’s a fascinating thing to watch.
@@joemiller7082 Hmm. They really believed him, and thought it was worth dying for. Or they didn't believe him, but still thought it was worth dying for. 🤔
PLEASE don’t be a fool! These 2 hosts are fools (atheists) and their less-than-worthless, asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!! The fact remains that along w/ DYING/FINITE space/matter/energy, TIME had a cause. The logical conclusion (when we follow the evidence) is that such a cause is TIMELESS. And if you're TIMELESS, do you have a beginning or end? No. We call that cause "OUR INFINITE, SUPERNATURAL GOD," who by definition is TIMELESS, CHANGELESS, BEGINNINGLESS, SPACELESS, IMMATERIAL and ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL. These topics are the most important topics known; thus, EVERYONE should have a vast understanding of the facts that frame the truth of these topics and not be so content to gulp down the false propaganda of channels such as this one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
Self-flagellation. Almost every time an X'tian argues for their point, they run these same stories. Thank you for your sacrifice, and I hope you can remember D.fitz's points so that we may have an abundant life.
It is in fucking sane that there are christians in the 21st century. I imagine I would say the same thing if we we're in the 17th century. It's clearly a blood cult. Really tests my faith in humanity
Don’t be a fool! These 2 hosts are fools (atheists) and their less-than-worthless, asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!! The fact remains that along w/ DYING/FINITE space/matter/energy, TIME had a cause. The logical conclusion (when we follow the evidence) is that such a cause is TIMELESS. And if you're TIMELESS, do you have a beginning or end? No. We call that cause "OUR INFINITE, SUPERNATURAL GOD," who by definition is TIMELESS, CHANGELESS, BEGINNINGLESS, SPACELESS, IMMATERIAL and ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL. These topics are the most important topics known; thus, EVERYONE should have a vast understanding of the facts that frame the truth of these topics and not be so content to gulp down the false propaganda of channels such as this one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
Why would there be any evidence whatsoever for a nobody? Jesus's noteriety didn't occur until centuries later. At the time you want all the evidence was when he was unknown to the world except about 49 illiterate followers. So who do you think is gonna write about him? Who else but early Christian followers would know anything about him? If there were reams of evidence, it would make it less believable. The fact there is scant evidence is exactly what you would expect. And lastly, why doesn't the logical smart, critical thinking atheist have the faculties to come to this conclusion? Denial and bias. That's why.
I liked the callers interjection of the date the printing press was invented. Completely irrelevant to the conversation. Sounded like he was reading off a random fact sheet. When I realize I’m talking to someone that knows far more on a subject, I stop trying to win an argument, and try to recognize it as an opportunity to ask questions and learn something new.
Pleural effusion , hemothorax, hydropneumothorax were all would have been a common spectacle in such a war torn society and when stoning to death was a common thing. These medical phenomena are common in severe trauma to chest.
"Well we could start with...." BOOM! Out of the ballpark . "Well we could start with ..." Key-RACK! Out of site...... *crickets chirp chirp chirp* "OK well we can start with..." No, you can take a seat.
@muslimsrememberapostacyday556 If I had a penny every time a theist avoids their burden of proof and strawmans non-believers, I would be the world first and only quazillionaire.
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer "There is no free will in atheist religion" First of all, despite your inane claims, atheism is not a religion. Now, let's focus on free will as you seem to be implying that free will actually exists. Demonstrate that, please, don't just assert it. Thank you.
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer the is no such thing as "atheist religion". It just means you do not believe in a god or gods. And as an atheist myself, I can assure you, I and every atheist I know will regard torture as evil.
Then you're a fool that worships at the alter of LOST & CLUELESSNESS. Your atheist cult is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. Yet you tightly and desperately cling to that garbage. OH MAN, you're so right! Clearly, it was a mud puddle (or star dust?) that came from nothing by nothing to do nothing and be nothing & produced the first cell with systems within to eat, digest food, eliminate waste, move, breathe & reproduce, NOT TO MENTION that first cell contained the DNA blueprints for 9 million DIFFERENT species of life. THAT is the bald face stupidity of atheism UNLESS of course, you have a better atheist explanation for reality. I'll be glad to hear it, but we both know you don't. And that means you're the very definition of being "lost & clueless" when it comes to reality. God is real and EVERYTHING we observe (e.g. life, intelligence, love, consciousness, morality) is only explained by an INFINITE CAUSE that has the intelligence, power, purpose, resources & means that are FAR BEYOND that of mankind. We call him “OUR INFINITE/ETERNAL/SUPERNATURAL GOD and there is no other option. That's why no atheist has a rational/possible, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. Try to learn what I'm teaching you before it's too late (when your temporary free will expires at your last gasp on earth and you go to an eternal hell - wishing you had never been born). For now, you and your asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism are hereby debunked (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution, gain of complexity/gain of new information/new anatomy).
@@ericamichelle675 since you have no idea about basic stuff like burden of proof and evidence, lets try this thought exercise: Ann and Beth have been hired, Ann to prove that fairies exist and Beth that they don’t. How can Ann prove that fairies absolutely, definitely, without doubt, 100 % do exist? How Beth can prove that fairies absolutely, definitely, without doubt, 100 % don’t exist?
@@valivali8104Can you prove to me thats trans people exist? I view them as real as faeries and unicorns. Burden of proof is on you and my standards are impossible to meet. Ready set go.
I'm no pathologist, but from a medical stand-point the caller is correct on one occasion. Historically, the Romans spearing crucifixion victims is a fact. Perhaps to move things along, but that's not the point. Plasma would pool in the victims lungs, so depending on where the spear pierced you would see a clear liquid before the blood flowed. Not water, plasma, but it would look like water to people who knew no different. And this would be the case for every crucifixion victim. And by historic accounts they crucified enough to line the roads into Jerusalem. So whoop-de-doo. Not an argument for the divinity of Jesus.
And your source for the spearing is? OH yes, a Christian source. The Romans particularly liked the use of crucifixion because it delayed death and extended the suffering and shame as long as possible for psychological effect on the masses. The point of spearing Jesus as part of a story makes it easy to move the story along and get to the supernatural part of the story. The Romans were quite fond of derision and extended humiliation of their enemies. This is attested to over and over by not only old Roman documents, but documents of their enemies as well. Just because crucifixion was a thing doesn't make it an argument for the historicity of Jesus or corroborate the entire tale.
@@OceanusHelios If you'd bothered to read my comment in its entirety you'd know I agree with you. You'd have to pretty naïve to consider Christian commentaries to be valid sources for anything.
This guy is so fascinating! I love his confidence, which is based on such careful analysis, by the top biblical scholars in the world. I am inspired when I listen to someone like this who is so very adept at his subject area. Thank you, David, for your amazing erudition!
@@patrickc3419 hilarious list. All written by christian scribes and the oldest manuscripts are hundreds to 1000+ years after the oldest NT in the 4th century.
@@patrickc3419 Have you ever actually taken a look at what those texts have to say? Antiquities by Flavius Josephus did not originally mention Jesus at all (very suspicious), and all references to Jesus were later added by early christians. As for the other texts, none of them ever actually confirm the existence of Jesus. Pliny the Younger's letters, for example, only discuss policies on what to do with this weird new cult that has sprung up. The christians had some weird beliefs, and Pliny was asking for advice on how to govern them. At best, these texts are evidence of christians, not christ. Imagine if you gave an interview with Tom Cruise, asking him about his belief system. You'd be writing down a lot of the screed of scientology. Now imagine that your interview survived through history for a thousand years. If historians were to look at your texts and conclude that it must be true because this guy believed in it, would that be correct? No it would not. The same applies to the texts you've mentioned. There are in fact, no such records of Jesus outside of the bible, despite what apologies like to claim (that is, they simply lie).
@@patrickc3419 '‘Antiquities’, by Flavius Josephus. -The Babylonian Talmud. -Pliny the Younger. -Coptic manuscripts of Thomas. -Suetonius." All written decades after the supposed life of Jesus ( I almost typed Brain - lol) and all based on hearsay....
Oh I love the title of David's book "jesus: mything in action" I'm gonna see if I can't get that on audio but if not I'll have read it 😂 great to see these older clips again
It's hilarious he brought up Alexander considering the fact that he's literally one of the most influential people to ever exist. We have hundreds of pieces of evidence he existed, he founded one of the most important cities in history. There are coins with his head on them, he interacted with almost every major civilization of his time; Persia, Greece, India and Egypt. And thanks to him, the Seleucid dynasty in Persia and the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt were born.
10:09 this got me thinking about the tradition in Christian art of depicting Bible stories in anachronistic settings. Renaissance madonnas wear renaissance clothing in renaissance settings. For most of history, religious art was depicted in contemporary settings. I wonder to what degree this ambiguous timeline depicted in religious art is intended to confound the pilgrim’s understanding thereof.
"Christian art of depicting Bible stories in anachronistic settings." Yeah, like the depictions of Jesus or Mary as blondes with blue eyes... and renaming many of the characters to medieval European names when they could...
It takes a lot of courage to finally admit the thing you believed all your life was BS, and few there be that find it. Gotta love me some David Fitzgerald! Easy to read, and makes all kinds of sense.
Why would there be any evidence whatsoever for a nobody? Jesus's noteriety didn't occur until centuries later. At the time you want all the evidence was when he was unknown to the world except about 49 illiterate followers. So who do you think is gonna write about him? Who else but early Christian followers would know anything about him? If there were reams of evidence, it would make it less believable. The fact there is scant evidence is exactly what you would expect. And lastly, why doesn't the logical smart, critical thinking atheist have the faculties to come to this conclusion? Denial and bias. That's why.
I actually feel bad because he could really take him to task but doesn't. And telling him to read his book, he won't because he's so convinced he's right he doesn't want to read anything about how he could be wrong
As an atheist whether jesus existed or not is interesting but not important. It should be vital for christians in understanding their faith yet they have little curiosity and lie or make excuses
I agree, I find it interesting. I'm an atheist but do consider there to have been a person going about Palestine that matches Jesus's description. There are enough sources outside the bible to corroborate that.
@@ginjaico_6132 which sources? Are they just telling what christians told them? Outright forgeries like Testimonium Flavianum? Misunderstood, like when Josephus wrote who James was sentenced to death by then archpriest, people complained to roman authorities who then punished archpriest for breaking laws and made James' brother Jesus archpriest as compensation for James' death? Which description? Paul's letters? Mark? Matthew? Luke? John? Some other book in new testament? What aspects of description?
That's a lie. Matthew 9:9 > "As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him." God wrote the Bible and used mankind to pen it. You can sit down now.
@@dreadfulspiller8766 It doesn't say he wasn't either. Seems you're trying to make up things to pacify your personal state of being a lost & clueless atheist fool. But like I said, God wrote the Bible and used mankind to pen it. So don't worry about who God used; just know that GOD DID IT.
@dreadfulspiller8766 Yes. And worse still, the Christian claim is that Matthew the disciple wrote "about himself" in Matthew 9:9 not through personal recollection, but by plagiarising Mark 2:14.
Why? She nor any other atheist has any answers; the asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That means you have no answers either. Blind leading the blind.
As far as my experience, the only argument ever presented to me by theists for the historicity of Jesus is the appeal to authority. They tend to constantly defer to the idea that historians believe he existed, but as far as evidence, they have none. And, they never seem to understand that a mere mortal (or several) whom the god could have been based on is still not the Christian Jesus. They seem to want two Jesus's...a man that existed, and the miracle working son of "God." And, they conflate the two.
I agree. Atheists only agree to accept an historical Jesus because there’s a lack of definitive answer, and even if he did exist it doesn’t mean he was supernatural. So they give the Apologists the benefit of the doubt to save time and get to the meat: nothing he was rumored to have done is proof he was God’s son, or god itself.
The appeal to authority is saying a claim is true because A SINGLE expert says it is true. That’s an invalid authority. The consensus opinion of experts in a field is a valid authority that non-experts should defer to. If not the consensus opinion of experts, who?
You can STOP w/ your stupidity now. Jesus did/does exist. Keep in mind that Jesus was considered a rogue of society. An outcast of not only the church, but the community. "CRUCIFY HIM!" they shouted. I doubt the NYTimes of the time would publish an article about him. There’s just as much evidence of Jesus as there is evidence for anything else of that time. Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically and historians consider the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) to be the best sources for investigating the historical Jesus. Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean, Jewish rabbi who preached his message orally, was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate. “That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus... agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact." - John Dominic, N.T. Scholar "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The resurrection? What are the facts to be explained? 1. The execution of Jesus by the Romans during Passover near 30 AD. 2. His burial in the tomb by a member of the Sanhedrin, Joseph of Arimathea. 3. Discovery of the empty tomb by female followers of Jesus. 4. Individuals & groups of people seeing Jesus alive after his crucifiction. 5. All 12 Disciples who were eyewitnesses to thet deity of their friend for 3 yrs (Jesus) gave up their lives instead of denying the deity and resurrection of Jesus. KEEP IN MIND, that all 12 Disciples didn’t just tell you what they “BELIEVED.” NO, they told you what they had SEEN WITH THEIR OWN EYES. THIS IS TREMENDOUS EVIDENCE that all 12 Disciples had truly witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 20 centuries have come and gone and if there was no “Resurrection,” why is the life of Jesus be the most influential life of all time? Is it because all 12 disciples of Jesus inexplicably decided to chunk “Judaism and fabricate a resurrection story so they could fulfill their dream of being beaten, tortured and killed? No. The last one of the disciples, John the Revelator was put to death in a vat of boiling oil, but was miraculously preserved unharmed (“St John was brought to Rome during the reign of the Emperor Domitian, and was thrown in a vat of boiling oil, from which he was miraculously preserved unharmed” - Jerome). John the Apostle is said to have lived to an old age, dying at Ephesus sometime after AD 98. 6. One of the best pieces of evidence for the resurrection of Jesus was James, the brother of Jesus. James didn’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Later, as documented in The Book of Acts (12:1), James did come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah and even the Jewish Historian Josephus states that James was martyred for Jesus. James was martyred just 11 years after the Crucifixion of Jesus. Note: People give their life for abstract philosophy that they believe to be true, but nobody gives their life for a factual claim they know to be false. Ok, so then Then Jesus died. Now, here’s the question that skeptics ask-did Jesus stay dead? Again, think of James. If Jesus had stayed dead, here’s what you would have expected from James-to be sad and a little ashamed of his “crazy” brother Jesus. You would also expect him to remain an unbeliever. He would still not believe that Jesus is the Messiah - NOT EVER. But here’s the amazing thing-James came to faith in his own brother! Forty days after the tomb was emptied, on the day of Pentecost, we find Mary praying in the upper room with the rest of the disciples-and Jesus’ brothers are there, too! That includes James! > “They were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.” - Acts 1:14 There is James, praying and waiting with the other believers for the Holy Spirit. Later, James became the pastor of the Jerusalem church, a leader in the new Jesus movement (Acts 12:17; 15:13-21; 21:18; Gal 2:9-12), and even an author of Scripture where he humbly described himself as “a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ” (Jas 1:1). James from from skeptical brother to faithful bondservant. What a turnaround! What explains it? How do you go from being an unbeliever who thinks his brother is out of His mind, to being a leader in the movement proclaiming that your brother is Messiah? The best explanation for what happened is the one Christians celebrate every Easter-that Jesus really, truly rose from the dead. Paul the Apostle confirms that James, the brother of Jesus, saw the resurrected Jesus: “3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas (Peter) and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to JAMES, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.” - 1 Corinthians 15: 3-9 If Jesus wasn’t resurrected by God and James didn’t witness that fact, then James would of died thinking his brother (Jesus) was crazy. He would NOT become a believer and the first martyr for the resurrected JESUS that he saw with his own eyes! NOTE: It’s completely unjewish for the Disciples to think that God would raise one individual person from the dead. Judaism is about all being resurrected in the end of time for “Judgement Day.” The resurrection is also very embarrassing to the Disciples. IF someone was going to make-up a resurrection lie, they would of bragged on themselves & say “I’m the only one that wasn’t afraid. I knew the truth all along, because Jesus confided in me.” Furthermore, since women weren’t allowed to testify in Court, no made-up story about the resurrection would of had women be the witnesses of the resurrection. There are multiple, independent eyewitnesses to the resurrection. These evidences don’t suggest that they can all be simply written-off as legend and ignored as a huge conspiracy between the 12 Disciples, the women at the tomb, the 500 followers, James and The Apostle Paul. FIN
I think it’s more likely than not that Jesus existed. Much easier to build a story off something real than to make it up wholesale, and experts like Bart Ehrman that aren’t Christian’s don’t put good stock in mythicism. But the fact that it’s an open question is a blight on Christianity. Christians can’t even point to something that reasonably conclusively says there was a normal human called Jesus, yet they want to make all sorts of claims about God and what he wants. That’s a huge gap between the amount of evidence they have, and the confidence they have in their beliefs. An irreconcilable gap.
Even if we had HD video of Jeebus' magical mystery tour, the most likely explanation would be an anceint illusionist/ con-man. The entire absurd narrative is something you would expect from Ed Wood.
Holy moly. The hosts of the AXP spot the 'Unsinkable Andrew' on horizon. With atheist precision move on the 'Unsinkable Andrew'. Fire torpedoe one... boom. Torpedoe two.....boom. Torpedoe three......boom, Topedee.....I'm sorry, I lost count of how many direct hits on his ship of argument. Any one point destroys him and yet you guys hit him with dozens. That's brutal. Great show. I loved going through all of the responses simultaneously with the hosts. So satisfying. Andrew: can you please.....uh uh CAN YOU PLEASE... humiliate me some more on the air. PLEASE!!!!! Hosts: if you absolutely want us to.......
I have to say that I’m a Bart Ehrman supporter and take the view that there really was a person on whom the Jesus legend was based. He does take a substantially different approach towards the evidence and, to my mind, a more academically sound one than Fitzgerald. That said, Fitzgerald is both articulate and convincing and, at the end of the day, there’s little difference between a Jesus that didn’t exist at all, and one who physically did exist but was not able to perform miracles, was not born of a virgin, and was not resurrected from the dead.
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods or the absence of a belief in the existence of deities. Unlike a cult, atheism does not involve a specific set of religious or spiritual doctrines, rituals, or practices. It is merely a position on the question of belief in gods. Atheists may hold a wide range of views and philosophies on various aspects of life, morality, and the universe. While there may be organized atheist groups or communities, these do not inherently qualify as cults. Cults are typically characterized by strong central leadership, strict control over members, and often unorthodox or extreme beliefs and practices. It's important to use precise language and avoid generalizations when discussing beliefs and non-beliefs, as broad labels like "cult" can carry negative connotations and may not accurately describe diverse groups or individuals.
Andrew is the guy who will claim absolute historicity of the writings of the OT, but then pivot and say "well we didn't have a printing press until 1500 when it is pointed out that the OT was decided upon by a committee in Rome.
I have been an atheist for a long time, and even I was sceptical when I first heard historians saying he probably didn't exist, because it's so ingrained in western culture that its a historical fact. But I have listened to the arguments made by educated knowledgeable scholars like David and Richard Carrier and they have completely convinced me that Jesus didn't exist and is a myth. BTW, if you Google it, you can find the Carrier's paper on Josephus which is pretty convincing that the Jesus references were added and are not part of the original text.
Excellent segment ! I recognize this caller, he never hears what the hosts say, just keeps giving more assertions, no matter how frivolous. He's the one who made the argument from emogee ! That was with Johnny P. Angel as host. PS. ancient Greek didn't have punctuation, so it was added later.
It is clear that none of the gospels were first written in Aramaic, Hebrew or even Latin. They were written in Greek. That gives clues as to who the authors were. They were not written by any of the 12. They were written well after the actual events by people who could not have been actual witnesses.
Kid, you’re an atheist; thus, we both know that you have ZERO ANSWERS and your asinine, lost & clueless Godless cult is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. The Bible is all fact and I can prove it. 66 books are in the Bible that are written by God who used mankind to pen it. We know God wrote it, due to the 2500 prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the 500 left for him to fulfill during the rest of this church age and the 1,000 yr Reign. ALSO by the content of the Bible, which no goat herder of 3,500 yrs ago could know, such as effect of a nuke on the human body, the 2nd law, the fact that God created time/space/matter/energy, that circumcision is done on the 8th day, just like doctors do today. The earth is round and the fact that the Universe is expanding: ”He alone STRETCHES OUT the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.” Job 9:8.
So, you're saying the cause/source of all time/space/matter/energy doesn't exist? If that's the case, please present your rational atheist explanation for reality.
In an act of goodwill, I was prepared to once more read the whole bible, because I understand it helps to buttress secular and humanist arguments. But after this discussion, I decided I am not prepared to undergo this kind of torture, and will continue to rely on what I already know. It's been more than enough.
I have often wondered if the water leaking from the body of Jesus (assuming that he existed for a moment) would have been instead plasma. In those days would anyone have known what plasma was?
Plasma is pale yellow. They'd have more likely mistaken it for piss than water That is if it magically decided to seperate from his blood for no apparent reason
*The author makes excellent points and I agree with him. However, it's obvious most commenters don't realize that his conclusions would be considered radical among fellow historians and scholars of antiquity. This includes both religious and secular historians. Saying that 1% of his his peers agree with him would be a gross understatement.*
There's no reliable sources for an historical Jesus, the only thing going for him is the fact that itinerant preachers were a dime a dozen in that era....so Jesus being one of many isn't far fetched, and we can be fairly certain the an early Jewish Christian movement existed which would have had some sort of leadership, now whether that's a man named Jesus or not, who knows.
When you lose your parents, you're an orphan. When you lose your spouse, you're a widower. But when you lose yourself to a cult like atheism, there's no other word for it but "stupid."
@@jamespowers5951 No, atheism is not a cult. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods or the absence of a belief in the existence of deities. Unlike a cult, atheism does not involve a specific set of religious or spiritual doctrines, rituals, or practices. It is merely a position on the question of belief in gods. Atheists may hold a wide range of views and philosophies on various aspects of life, morality, and the universe. While there may be organized atheist groups or communities, these do not inherently qualify as cults. Cults are typically characterized by strong central leadership, strict control over members, and often unorthodox or extreme beliefs and practices. It's important to use precise language and avoid generalizations when discussing beliefs and non-beliefs, as broad labels like "cult" can carry negative connotations and may not accurately describe diverse groups or individuals. Also, we get to have our own personality as atheists instead of being slaves to god like you. And before you say we'll become slaves to Satan, heaven is basically Stalin's government where you have to worship god forever and if you let it slip that you don't like him (and god can read your mind so he's basically Big Brother from 1984) you get sent to hell. But god doesn't give us a chance to change in hell. I don't believe for a second that hell is eternal torture. That is not what your so-called loving god would accept. Hell as an absence of god makes more sense, and a place I would be thrilled to go to.
Imaginary auhorship. It seems that apologists imagine what the situation and person was that put the pen to paper. The tendency to disregard "physical" evidence such as coins or bones or objects is beyond them as they desperately grab at written names in other text.Gr8! Peace ☮💜
Poor Andrew, barely got a word in edgewise as a river of facts flowed over him. I gotta check to see if my library carries any of Dave's stuff. Probably not.
At the end of the day, theists only want to confirm that their own beliefs are true. As I have no reason whatsoever to believe in an afterlife, I have absolutely no reason to believe that Jesus Christ could save anybody.
There being a preacher by that name at that time I find easy to believe. The idea that the early Christian’s just fabricated their central figure out of nothing just doesn’t make sense to me. But all the specific claims about his life is pretty up in the air.
"Do you believe X existed?" We have proof they existed "But it's not written" We have more than just written sources so we have proof X existed "Do you believe B existed" Oh here we go"
What we are told about Pontius Pilate is not true? I can’t believe they allow a TH-cam channel to spuriously claim that Pilate didn’t know Biggus Dickus.
The meaning of “REAL TIME” is the actual time during which something takes place and it’s an IRREFUTABLE FACT that no atheist idea can be SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVED IN REAL TIME (e.g. big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, new anatomy differing from ancestry/evolution). That’s because NONE OF IT has ever been observed, because NONE OF IT IS POSSIBLE. Only TRUE NATURE (e.g. flower bloom, reproduction, photosynthesis, digestion, respiration, gravity, sunshine) can be SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVED IN REAL TIME
The irony that those things that can't be observed, have actually either been observed or we've 9bserved evidence that they happened. Also those aren't athiest ideas, those are scientific ideas. Maybe learn what things even are before you start making stupid claims about them, cause right now you just look like an idiot who never bothered to pick up a book.
It's quite clear that the caller is not actually paying attention to him. It's interesting how he points out where he disagrees. You disagree? You clearly do not know your gospels
Can someone explain to me why these names like Mathew, Luke and John have been anglicised. I know that the King James bible was translated in the early 1600's. But surely these names from the middle East in the iron age would have been different. By the way, the faith you believe in depends on where you are born.
God wrote the Bible, so what you see is what you get and you're wrong about ones faith being locked down to ones birthplace. Intellect overrides the teachings of youth; thus, it doesn’t matter where you were born. There are millions of Christians in the Chinese underground. There are thousands of daily conversions to Christianity in Muslim nations and there are actually atheists in the Christian nation of the U.S. Go figure.
@@jamespowers5951Ah another blabber of nothing. God wrote the bible? So why the contradictions? Why does Jesus say 4 different things as "his last words before death"? Why jesus acts in different ways in the same event? Why does Mary and Joseph do 2 different things just after Jesus birth? Why are there two different genealogies of jesus? And don't give me that "one is Joseph one is Mary's" genealogy. I takes no sense, and in both the context is clearly Joseph genealogy since it starts with him. Also I guess god really liked that slavery thing. And he really liked those bashing of the kids against the rocks. And he really steeled Pharaoh's heart just so he can kill more of the Egypt's children. What a loving god.
I always find it weird how Christians never use the same reasoning for other bekiefs, like hiw the city of troy existing clearly proves that the Greek pantheon is real.
It must be really frustrating to talk to non-believers that know much more about the subject than you do. And who claim that their knowledge is the reasons for their non-belief. It's almost like the more you know, the less you believe.
A classic believer malfunction - using his bible to validate his bible. We have zero documents, document fragments, or words on any page written from the biblical character, Jesus’, own hand. This is an uncomfortable fact for Christians given they believe their god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and infallible. But he just didn't have the intelligence or capability to create a literate version of his son-self. I'm in the last few chapters of reading David Fitzgerald's "Nailed" and it's overwhelmingly clear that Christian writers stretched their fictional stories beyond the scope of a skeptical reader's fascination with suspending disbelief. Neither Judaism or Christianity are original belief systems. Of the many cultures and superstitious religions that influenced Christianity's evolution, Zoroastrianism, is one of the world's oldest monotheistic religions, having originated in ancient Persia. Zoroaster teaches that upon death souls stay with their bodies for three days until they are judged at which time they go to either heaven, hell, or an intermediate place comparable to Catholicism's purgatory. In Zoroastrianism, a twelve thousand year old cosmos comes to a conclusion when the last of three saviors, all born of virgins and having works that last a thousand years each, overcomes evil at the final judgement and raises everyone from the dead. All are judged, purified and reconciled to their God who creates a new heaven and new Earth.
Why would there be any evidence whatsoever for a nobody? Jesus's noteriety didn't occur until centuries later. At the time you want all the evidence was when he was unknown to the world except about 49 illiterate followers. So who do you think is gonna write about him? Who else but early Christian followers would know anything about him? If there were reams of evidence, it would make it less believable. The fact there is scant evidence is exactly what you would expect. And lastly, why doesn't the logical smart, critical thinking atheist have the faculties to come to this conclusion? Denial and bias. That's why.
Christians always forget a critical fact. In Luke it says the disciples were uneducated and couldn't read or write. I believe the Greek word is "agramaton" or "without letters." How did they use Aramaic and then translate it to Greek while illiterate? Never happened.
Gawd dunit
@@SextusHempiryk
Not my gawd! My god is a black female saxophone player that rolls great blunts!
@@robertlibby9716 Any room left in the Congregation? I want in!!!
@@SextusHempiryk
We are always open and especially in times of crisis like floods.
I hope Joel Osteen remembers that!
😂
Every time David responds to Andrew, I get flashes of The Simpsons scene of the random kid crying "Stop! Stop! He's already dead!" 😂
“Earthworms exist so Dune was a documentary.”
Ummmmm duh!! Where else do you think the movie was filmed???
And Tremors.
What nobody tells you is that the worms are the same size on Dune that they are here on earth. It’s the fact that the people of Dune are extremely tiny compared to the people on earth that’s hidden from us.
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer atheist religion?
Your statement is flawed on so many levels… first, there are many more examples of religious genocides than not. Second, there are no good examples of authoritarian regimes, whether they be religious or secular. There are also no -none- examples of functional theocracies anywhere in history. However, there are plenty of examples of functional secular societies throughout history. When you apply religious beliefs to judge governments, you are already losing the argument.
The spice will flow under my command...
Christ, did THIS guy pick the wrong guest to 'disagree' with. What a trainwreck of ignorance.
It is a xtian specialty
@@xtianhunter More like a theistic specialty lol
That is one of the best defenses of Jesus I have seen them put up. 🤣🤣🤡🤡🤣🤣
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer
Poor thing! Are you OK.
Just Trolling and "Projecting".
yep, kept saying oouucchh !
This is so typical. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. Expert lays out some facts. Theist says, but what about. They are experts in one thing: moving their make believe goalposts.
right, its like this nut is completely ignoring what the educated man is saying
@@JimCastleberryGod isn't real. Sorry. Grow up.
@@JimCastleberry "is not 'facts.'"
how the f**k would you know...?
All you ever post are infantile claims and lies, and you stupidly think they are "facts"
You wouldn't know a fact if it pissed in your face...
@@JimCastleberry " You silly atheist clowns never do."
Says the lying troll who has never proven a f**king thing...
Moronically thinks doubling down on BS is somehow proof...
@@JimCastleberry Ok, claims backed by evidence instead. Either way, the theist just moves the goalposts every time. Again, so typical.
What weight does "they died for their beliefs" have? Many people die for stupid reasons. People in cults commit mass suicide, but that doesn't mean their leader is special. People fly airplanes into buildings but that doesn't mean Allah is real. People fall to their deaths because they think they can fly, but they couldn't. At best, all it shows is that they sincerely thought that this Jesus guy was special, but many people nowadays also believe he was special. That does not support in any way that he was divine.
Yup, people die for lies all the time. Just look at anti-vaxxers and covid. Literally thousands of avoidable deaths.
Especially when there’s such scant evidence. Most of them disappeared entirely from reliable history, yet they just repeat the “They wouldn’t have died for something untrue” line without a moments thought. Like you say, even if it were true it wouldn’t be evidence of anything. At best you could get to “the ones that died probably believed it was true” which doesn’t tell you anything about whether it was true or not.
Yet point out flaws in Islam, Scientology, or any other religion they don’t believe in and their critical thinking skills suddenly return to them. It’s a fascinating thing to watch.
All it means is that people really believed it.
@@joemiller7082 Hmm.
They really believed him, and thought it was worth dying for.
Or they didn't believe him, but still thought it was worth dying for. 🤔
Dying for what you have been convinced by others to be true is very different from dying for what you have witnessed yourself to be true.
METAPHORS are lost on theists.
to them, a METAPHORICAL storyline IS a REAL event.
As are analogies
That's why theists are called SHEEP. Sheep don't think for themselves.
“False equivalence” they cry
I'm under the impression that the caller does not have the faintest idea of what Mr. Fitzgerald is talking about!
"You give me the impression that you have never read a counter argument to your positions" - Christopher Hitchin's perfect answer to these "experts".
I am under the impression that the caller is a brainwashed dill.
This is one of the best Atheist Experience clips of all time! Ive warched it 5 times already! 😁
PLEASE don’t be a fool! These 2 hosts are fools (atheists) and their less-than-worthless, asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
The fact remains that along w/ DYING/FINITE space/matter/energy, TIME had a cause. The logical conclusion (when we follow the evidence) is that such a cause is TIMELESS. And if you're TIMELESS, do you have a beginning or end? No. We call that cause "OUR INFINITE, SUPERNATURAL GOD," who by definition is TIMELESS, CHANGELESS, BEGINNINGLESS, SPACELESS, IMMATERIAL and ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL.
These topics are the most important topics known; thus, EVERYONE should have a vast understanding of the facts that frame the truth of these topics and not be so content to gulp down the false propaganda of channels such as this one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
Self-flagellation. Almost every time an X'tian argues for their point, they run these same stories. Thank you for your sacrifice, and I hope you can remember D.fitz's points so that we may have an abundant life.
15:50 it is a Cult...right now...
Still is, and "always has been"... ^^
Literally a blood cult. Blows my fuckin mind, always has.
It is in fucking sane that there are christians in the 21st century. I imagine I would say the same thing if we we're in the 17th century. It's clearly a blood cult. Really tests my faith in humanity
A religion is just a cult with a successful marketing department.
Expert absolutely pummeled caller Andrew, I’m def gonna buy his book, I’ve never seen someone have so much detail of all the gospel’s/books history
It’s an easy read
Like a second grader arguing theoretical physics with Albert Einstein.
Don’t be a fool! These 2 hosts are fools (atheists) and their less-than-worthless, asinine, lost & clueless religious cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. No atheist has a RATIONAL/POSSIBLE, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
The fact remains that along w/ DYING/FINITE space/matter/energy, TIME had a cause. The logical conclusion (when we follow the evidence) is that such a cause is TIMELESS. And if you're TIMELESS, do you have a beginning or end? No. We call that cause "OUR INFINITE, SUPERNATURAL GOD," who by definition is TIMELESS, CHANGELESS, BEGINNINGLESS, SPACELESS, IMMATERIAL and ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL.
These topics are the most important topics known; thus, EVERYONE should have a vast understanding of the facts that frame the truth of these topics and not be so content to gulp down the false propaganda of channels such as this one. THESE GUYS ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE NO ANSWERS!!!
have a feeling Andrew is a nice guy but your analogy is a good one
Why would there be any evidence whatsoever for a nobody? Jesus's noteriety didn't occur until centuries later. At the time you want all the evidence was when he was unknown to the world except about 49 illiterate followers.
So who do you think is gonna write about him?
Who else but early Christian followers would know anything about him?
If there were reams of evidence, it would make it less believable.
The fact there is scant evidence is exactly what you would expect.
And lastly, why doesn't the logical smart, critical thinking atheist have the faculties to come to this conclusion?
Denial and bias. That's why.
Psssshhhh. The only second graders are atheist...
This is a great analogy
(I wanted to say allegory but I don't know what that means)
I liked the callers interjection of the date the printing press was invented. Completely irrelevant to the conversation. Sounded like he was reading off a random fact sheet. When I realize I’m talking to someone that knows far more on a subject, I stop trying to win an argument, and try to recognize it as an opportunity to ask questions and learn something new.
العقلاء فقط من يفعلون ذلك
@@ibrahimelmasry-z3k Do you speak to your mother like that?
no@@LOwens-xf8yo
So many Mic Drops!!! Love it
Pleural effusion , hemothorax, hydropneumothorax were all would have been a common spectacle in such a war torn society and when stoning to death was a common thing. These medical phenomena are common in severe trauma to chest.
If theists would put the same effort into Harry Potter books, we would have magic schools.
"Well we could start with...." BOOM! Out of the ballpark . "Well we could start with ..." Key-RACK! Out of site...... *crickets chirp chirp chirp* "OK well we can start with..."
No, you can take a seat.
Dude thought he was in groundhog day, rewinding time so he never had to concede a point
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer can you define divinity?
@muslimsrememberapostacyday556
If I had a penny every time a theist avoids their burden of proof and strawmans non-believers, I would be the world first and only quazillionaire.
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer "There is no free will in atheist religion"
First of all, despite your inane claims, atheism is not a religion. Now, let's focus on free will as you seem to be implying that free will actually exists. Demonstrate that, please, don't just assert it. Thank you.
@@AtheistReligionIsCancer the is no such thing as "atheist religion". It just means you do not believe in a god or gods. And as an atheist myself, I can assure you, I and every atheist I know will regard torture as evil.
This is one of my favorites!
Then you're a fool that worships at the alter of LOST & CLUELESSNESS. Your atheist cult is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. Yet you tightly and desperately cling to that garbage.
OH MAN, you're so right! Clearly, it was a mud puddle (or star dust?) that came from nothing by nothing to do nothing and be nothing & produced the first cell with systems within to eat, digest food, eliminate waste, move, breathe & reproduce, NOT TO MENTION that first cell contained the DNA blueprints for 9 million DIFFERENT species of life. THAT is the bald face stupidity of atheism UNLESS of course, you have a better atheist explanation for reality. I'll be glad to hear it, but we both know you don't. And that means you're the very definition of being "lost & clueless" when it comes to reality.
God is real and EVERYTHING we observe (e.g. life, intelligence, love, consciousness, morality) is only explained by an INFINITE CAUSE that has the intelligence, power, purpose, resources & means that are FAR BEYOND that of mankind. We call him “OUR INFINITE/ETERNAL/SUPERNATURAL GOD and there is no other option. That's why no atheist has a rational/possible, step-by-step atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one.
Try to learn what I'm teaching you before it's too late (when your temporary free will expires at your last gasp on earth and you go to an eternal hell - wishing you had never been born). For now, you and your asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism are hereby debunked (e.g. multiverse, big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, evolution, gain of complexity/gain of new information/new anatomy).
When an expert demolished a theist
Yeah? Demolish me. Give me your rational atheist explanation for reality.
@@ericamichelle675 You must focus your question more. It's too loosy goosy.
@@ericamichelle675 since you have no idea about basic stuff like burden of proof and evidence, lets try this thought exercise:
Ann and Beth have been hired, Ann to prove that fairies exist and Beth that they don’t.
How can Ann prove that fairies absolutely, definitely, without doubt, 100 % do exist?
How Beth can prove that fairies absolutely, definitely, without doubt, 100 % don’t exist?
@@valivali8104Can you prove to me thats trans people exist? I view them as real as faeries and unicorns. Burden of proof is on you and my standards are impossible to meet. Ready set go.
I think Erica is as stupid as this caller. You're already on the channel hon, we've explained this shit already. Go away.
I'm no pathologist, but from a medical stand-point the caller is correct on one occasion. Historically, the Romans spearing crucifixion victims is a fact. Perhaps to move things along, but that's not the point. Plasma would pool in the victims lungs, so depending on where the spear pierced you would see a clear liquid before the blood flowed. Not water, plasma, but it would look like water to people who knew no different. And this would be the case for every crucifixion victim. And by historic accounts they crucified enough to line the roads into Jerusalem. So whoop-de-doo. Not an argument for the divinity of Jesus.
And your source for the spearing is? OH yes, a Christian source. The Romans particularly liked the use of crucifixion because it delayed death and extended the suffering and shame as long as possible for psychological effect on the masses. The point of spearing Jesus as part of a story makes it easy to move the story along and get to the supernatural part of the story. The Romans were quite fond of derision and extended humiliation of their enemies. This is attested to over and over by not only old Roman documents, but documents of their enemies as well. Just because crucifixion was a thing doesn't make it an argument for the historicity of Jesus or corroborate the entire tale.
@@OceanusHelios If you'd bothered to read my comment in its entirety you'd know I agree with you. You'd have to pretty naïve to consider Christian commentaries to be valid sources for anything.
This guy is so fascinating! I love his confidence, which is based on such careful analysis, by the top biblical scholars in the world. I am inspired when I listen to someone like this who is so very adept at his subject area. Thank you, David, for your amazing erudition!
How come this guy is not on every atheist shows?
There isn't a single contemporary source for jesus in the bible or outside the bible.
-‘Antiquities’, by Flavius Josephus.
-The Babylonian Talmud.
-Pliny the Younger.
-Coptic manuscripts of Thomas.
-Suetonius.
@@patrickc3419 hilarious list. All written by christian scribes and the oldest manuscripts are hundreds to 1000+ years after the oldest NT in the 4th century.
@@patrickc3419 Have you ever actually taken a look at what those texts have to say?
Antiquities by Flavius Josephus did not originally mention Jesus at all (very suspicious), and all references to Jesus were later added by early christians.
As for the other texts, none of them ever actually confirm the existence of Jesus. Pliny the Younger's letters, for example, only discuss policies on what to do with this weird new cult that has sprung up. The christians had some weird beliefs, and Pliny was asking for advice on how to govern them.
At best, these texts are evidence of christians, not christ.
Imagine if you gave an interview with Tom Cruise, asking him about his belief system. You'd be writing down a lot of the screed of scientology. Now imagine that your interview survived through history for a thousand years. If historians were to look at your texts and conclude that it must be true because this guy believed in it, would that be correct?
No it would not.
The same applies to the texts you've mentioned. There are in fact, no such records of Jesus outside of the bible, despite what apologies like to claim (that is, they simply lie).
@@patrickc3419you don't understand what the word contemporary means do you?
@@patrickc3419 '‘Antiquities’, by Flavius Josephus.
-The Babylonian Talmud.
-Pliny the Younger.
-Coptic manuscripts of Thomas.
-Suetonius."
All written decades after the supposed life of Jesus ( I almost typed Brain - lol) and all based on hearsay....
Oh I love the title of David's book "jesus: mything in action" I'm gonna see if I can't get that on audio but if not I'll have read it 😂 great to see these older clips again
It's hilarious he brought up Alexander considering the fact that he's literally one of the most influential people to ever exist. We have hundreds of pieces of evidence he existed, he founded one of the most important cities in history. There are coins with his head on them, he interacted with almost every major civilization of his time; Persia, Greece, India and Egypt. And thanks to him, the Seleucid dynasty in Persia and the Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt were born.
Alexander is even in the bible
10:09 this got me thinking about the tradition in Christian art of depicting Bible stories in anachronistic settings. Renaissance madonnas wear renaissance clothing in renaissance settings. For most of history, religious art was depicted in contemporary settings. I wonder to what degree this ambiguous timeline depicted in religious art is intended to confound the pilgrim’s understanding thereof.
"Christian art of depicting Bible stories in anachronistic settings."
Yeah, like the depictions of Jesus or Mary as blondes with blue eyes... and renaming many of the characters to medieval European names when they could...
It takes a lot of courage to finally admit the thing you believed all your life was BS, and few there be that find it.
Gotta love me some David Fitzgerald! Easy to read, and makes all kinds of sense.
Why would there be any evidence whatsoever for a nobody? Jesus's noteriety didn't occur until centuries later. At the time you want all the evidence was when he was unknown to the world except about 49 illiterate followers.
So who do you think is gonna write about him?
Who else but early Christian followers would know anything about him?
If there were reams of evidence, it would make it less believable.
The fact there is scant evidence is exactly what you would expect.
And lastly, why doesn't the logical smart, critical thinking atheist have the faculties to come to this conclusion?
Denial and bias. That's why.
Six years later, it is a miracle that X'tians still run these failed stories. D.Fitz's book is great.
That Gandalf/Tolkien reference was genius, absolute genius
I actually feel bad because he could really take him to task but doesn't.
And telling him to read his book, he won't because he's so convinced he's right he doesn't want to read anything about how he could be wrong
One of my favourite calls of all time
As an atheist whether jesus existed or not is interesting but not important. It should be vital for christians in understanding their faith yet they have little curiosity and lie or make excuses
Because it’s cryptonite to their beliefs.
i dont think its important but it is good fun telling believers he never existed
I agree, I find it interesting. I'm an atheist but do consider there to have been a person going about Palestine that matches Jesus's description. There are enough sources outside the bible to corroborate that.
@@ginjaico_6132 which sources? Are they just telling what christians told them? Outright forgeries like Testimonium Flavianum? Misunderstood, like when Josephus wrote who James was sentenced to death by then archpriest, people complained to roman authorities who then punished archpriest for breaking laws and made James' brother Jesus archpriest as compensation for James' death?
Which description? Paul's letters? Mark? Matthew? Luke? John? Some other book in new testament? What aspects of description?
@@ginjaico_6132 there"s actually none(contemporary).....first one was josephus in 93ad.....far too late to corroborate and its a well known forgery
6:20 - do you not think that in those days people did not know what happened when people are stabbed?
In the gospel of matthew 9:9 it says straight out that matthew was not written by him.
That's a lie.
Matthew 9:9 > "As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him."
God wrote the Bible and used mankind to pen it. You can sit down now.
@@ericamichelle675 How is it a lie when he doesn't say that he was the same matthew.
@@dreadfulspiller8766 It doesn't say he wasn't either. Seems you're trying to make up things to pacify your personal state of being a lost & clueless atheist fool. But like I said, God wrote the Bible and used mankind to pen it. So don't worry about who God used; just know that GOD DID IT.
@@ericamichelle675 A bit desperate defending your book of fairy tales, are we?...
@dreadfulspiller8766
Yes. And worse still, the Christian claim is that Matthew the disciple wrote "about himself" in Matthew 9:9 not through personal recollection, but by plagiarising Mark 2:14.
its even more of a cult now than it was back when they are talking about
What about all the people in America and Oceania? What gospel was written for them?
And Africa and Asia🤔
North American indigenous religious myth is far more gentle and interesting than christianity.
Well, there's the Book of Mormon.
@@TH-camhater17 Ethiopian Bible is the oldest and complete bible on earth.
@@Glasschin2.0 Is it Coptic?
I wish they'd reconcile and get her back on the show.
Yeah, imagine a show with her and Seth Andrews or Forrest. It'd be amazing.
Why? She nor any other atheist has any answers; the asinine, lost & clueless cult of atheism is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. That means you have no answers either. Blind leading the blind.
This was audio bliss!😊
Someone said that David is the Tarantino of Atheism and I totally agree😂
Wow. You really know your stuff!
Love this guy! Buying his books now.
As far as my experience, the only argument ever presented to me by theists for the historicity of Jesus is the appeal to authority. They tend to constantly defer to the idea that historians believe he existed, but as far as evidence, they have none. And, they never seem to understand that a mere mortal (or several) whom the god could have been based on is still not the Christian Jesus. They seem to want two Jesus's...a man that existed, and the miracle working son of "God." And, they conflate the two.
I agree. Atheists only agree to accept an historical Jesus because there’s a lack of definitive answer, and even if he did exist it doesn’t mean he was supernatural. So they give the Apologists the benefit of the doubt to save time and get to the meat: nothing he was rumored to have done is proof he was God’s son, or god itself.
The appeal to authority is saying a claim is true because A SINGLE expert says it is true. That’s an invalid authority.
The consensus opinion of experts in a field is a valid authority that non-experts should defer to. If not the consensus opinion of experts, who?
You can STOP w/ your stupidity now. Jesus did/does exist. Keep in mind that Jesus was considered a rogue of society. An outcast of not only the church, but the community. "CRUCIFY HIM!" they shouted. I doubt the NYTimes of the time would publish an article about him.
There’s just as much evidence of Jesus as there is evidence for anything else of that time. Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed historically and historians consider the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) to be the best sources for investigating the historical Jesus. Most scholars agree that Jesus was a Galilean, Jewish rabbi who preached his message orally, was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.
“That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus... agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact." - John Dominic, N.T. Scholar
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
The resurrection? What are the facts to be explained?
1. The execution of Jesus by the Romans during Passover near 30 AD.
2. His burial in the tomb by a member of the Sanhedrin, Joseph of Arimathea.
3. Discovery of the empty tomb by female followers of Jesus.
4. Individuals & groups of people seeing Jesus alive after his crucifiction.
5. All 12 Disciples who were eyewitnesses to thet deity of their friend for 3 yrs (Jesus) gave up their lives instead of denying the deity and resurrection of Jesus. KEEP IN MIND, that all 12 Disciples didn’t just tell you what they “BELIEVED.” NO, they told you what they had SEEN WITH THEIR OWN EYES.
THIS IS TREMENDOUS EVIDENCE that all 12 Disciples had truly witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 20 centuries have come and gone and if there was no “Resurrection,” why is the life of Jesus be the most influential life of all time? Is it because all 12 disciples of Jesus inexplicably decided to chunk “Judaism and fabricate a resurrection story so they could fulfill their dream of being beaten, tortured and killed? No.
The last one of the disciples, John the Revelator was put to death in a vat of boiling oil, but was miraculously preserved unharmed (“St John was brought to Rome during the reign of the Emperor Domitian, and was thrown in a vat of boiling oil, from which he was miraculously preserved unharmed” - Jerome). John the Apostle is said to have lived to an old age, dying at Ephesus sometime after AD 98.
6. One of the best pieces of evidence for the resurrection of Jesus was James, the brother of Jesus. James didn’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Later, as documented in The Book of Acts (12:1), James did come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah and even the Jewish Historian Josephus states that James was martyred for Jesus. James was martyred just 11 years after the Crucifixion of Jesus.
Note: People give their life for abstract philosophy that they believe to be true, but nobody gives their life for a factual claim they know to be false.
Ok, so then Then Jesus died. Now, here’s the question that skeptics ask-did Jesus stay dead? Again, think of James. If Jesus had stayed dead, here’s what you would have expected from James-to be sad and a little ashamed of his “crazy” brother Jesus. You would also expect him to remain an unbeliever. He would still not believe that Jesus is the Messiah - NOT EVER.
But here’s the amazing thing-James came to faith in his own brother!
Forty days after the tomb was emptied, on the day of Pentecost, we find Mary praying in the upper room with the rest of the disciples-and Jesus’ brothers are there, too! That includes James! > “They were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.” - Acts 1:14
There is James, praying and waiting with the other believers for the Holy Spirit.
Later, James became the pastor of the Jerusalem church, a leader in the new Jesus movement (Acts 12:17; 15:13-21; 21:18; Gal 2:9-12), and even an author of Scripture where he humbly described himself as “a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ” (Jas 1:1).
James from from skeptical brother to faithful bondservant. What a turnaround!
What explains it? How do you go from being an unbeliever who thinks his brother is out of His mind, to being a leader in the movement proclaiming that your brother is Messiah? The best explanation for what happened is the one Christians celebrate every Easter-that Jesus really, truly rose from the dead.
Paul the Apostle confirms that James, the brother of Jesus, saw the resurrected Jesus:
“3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas (Peter) and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to JAMES, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.” - 1 Corinthians 15: 3-9
If Jesus wasn’t resurrected by God and James didn’t witness that fact, then James would of died thinking his brother (Jesus) was crazy. He would NOT become a believer and the first martyr for the resurrected JESUS that he saw with his own eyes!
NOTE: It’s completely unjewish for the Disciples to think that God would raise one individual person from the dead. Judaism is about all being resurrected in the end of time for “Judgement Day.” The resurrection is also very embarrassing to the Disciples. IF someone was going to make-up a resurrection lie, they would of bragged on themselves & say “I’m the only one that wasn’t afraid. I knew the truth all along, because Jesus confided in me.” Furthermore, since women weren’t allowed to testify in Court, no made-up story about the resurrection would of had women be the witnesses of the resurrection. There are multiple, independent eyewitnesses to the resurrection. These evidences don’t suggest that they can all be simply written-off as legend and ignored as a huge conspiracy between the 12 Disciples, the women at the tomb, the 500 followers, James and The Apostle Paul. FIN
I think it’s more likely than not that Jesus existed. Much easier to build a story off something real than to make it up wholesale, and experts like Bart Ehrman that aren’t Christian’s don’t put good stock in mythicism.
But the fact that it’s an open question is a blight on Christianity. Christians can’t even point to something that reasonably conclusively says there was a normal human called Jesus, yet they want to make all sorts of claims about God and what he wants. That’s a huge gap between the amount of evidence they have, and the confidence they have in their beliefs. An irreconcilable gap.
Ok. We have overwhelming manuscript data for his existence. No professional with a half a brain denied he existed.
Fabulous call.... A classic 😅
Even if we had HD video of Jeebus' magical mystery tour, the most likely explanation would be an anceint illusionist/ con-man. The entire absurd narrative is something you would expect from Ed Wood.
Holy moly.
The hosts of the AXP spot the 'Unsinkable Andrew' on horizon. With atheist precision move on the 'Unsinkable Andrew'. Fire torpedoe one... boom. Torpedoe two.....boom. Torpedoe three......boom, Topedee.....I'm sorry, I lost count of how many direct hits on his ship of argument. Any one point destroys him and yet you guys hit him with dozens. That's brutal.
Great show. I loved going through all of the responses simultaneously with the hosts. So satisfying.
Andrew: can you please.....uh uh CAN YOU PLEASE... humiliate me some more on the air. PLEASE!!!!!
Hosts: if you absolutely want us to.......
I have to say that I’m a Bart Ehrman supporter and take the view that there really was a person on whom the Jesus legend was based. He does take a substantially different approach towards the evidence and, to my mind, a more academically sound one than Fitzgerald. That said, Fitzgerald is both articulate and convincing and, at the end of the day, there’s little difference between a Jesus that didn’t exist at all, and one who physically did exist but was not able to perform miracles, was not born of a virgin, and was not resurrected from the dead.
It seems to me that there’s a pretty large difference actually between existing and not.
This is absolutely my favourite show .............
Oh this was a GOOD one
YOU DO GOOD WORK
An eye witness account written by the eye witness himself the following century makes perfect sense.
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods or the absence of a belief in the existence of deities. Unlike a cult, atheism does not involve a specific set of religious or spiritual doctrines, rituals, or practices. It is merely a position on the question of belief in gods.
Atheists may hold a wide range of views and philosophies on various aspects of life, morality, and the universe. While there may be organized atheist groups or communities, these do not inherently qualify as cults. Cults are typically characterized by strong central leadership, strict control over members, and often unorthodox or extreme beliefs and practices.
It's important to use precise language and avoid generalizations when discussing beliefs and non-beliefs, as broad labels like "cult" can carry negative connotations and may not accurately describe diverse groups or individuals.
Praise the Lloyd
Praise the Lard!
@@SextusHempiryk 🤣😂
Praise the holey spiggit !!
Jesus, the first person ever stabbed with a spear.
Andrew is the guy who will claim absolute historicity of the writings of the OT, but then pivot and say "well we didn't have a printing press until 1500 when it is pointed out that the OT was decided upon by a committee in Rome.
I have been an atheist for a long time, and even I was sceptical when I first heard historians saying he probably didn't exist, because it's so ingrained in western culture that its a historical fact. But I have listened to the arguments made by educated knowledgeable scholars like David and Richard Carrier and they have completely convinced me that Jesus didn't exist and is a myth. BTW, if you Google it, you can find the Carrier's paper on Josephus which is pretty convincing that the Jesus references were added and are not part of the original text.
Excellent segment !
I recognize this caller, he never hears what the hosts say, just keeps giving more assertions, no matter how frivolous.
He's the one who made the argument from emogee !
That was with Johnny P. Angel as host.
PS. ancient Greek didn't have punctuation, so it was added later.
It is clear that none of the gospels were first written in Aramaic, Hebrew or even Latin. They were written in Greek. That gives clues as to who the authors were. They were not written by any of the 12. They were written well after the actual events by people who could not have been actual witnesses.
Kid, you’re an atheist; thus, we both know that you have ZERO ANSWERS and your asinine, lost & clueless Godless cult is INFAMOUS the world over for having ZERO ANSWERS. The Bible is all fact and I can prove it. 66 books are in the Bible that are written by God who used mankind to pen it. We know God wrote it, due to the 2500 prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the 500 left for him to fulfill during the rest of this church age and the 1,000 yr Reign. ALSO by the content of the Bible, which no goat herder of 3,500 yrs ago could know, such as effect of a nuke on the human body, the 2nd law, the fact that God created time/space/matter/energy, that circumcision is done on the 8th day, just like doctors do today. The earth is round and the fact that the Universe is expanding:
”He alone STRETCHES OUT the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.” Job 9:8.
God, Jesus, pixies, fairies,and Santaclause 3 of those 5 we stop believing in by the age of 10.
Maybe you should stop believing in all five. 😂
So, you're saying the cause/source of all time/space/matter/energy doesn't exist? If that's the case, please present your rational atheist explanation for reality.
@@ericamichelle675 Strawman is ALL you ever have, yaaaaaawnnnnn...............
I believe in santa have fun with your coal
Andrew appeared on a later show claiming Goldilocks didn't really eat all the porridge
Pontius Pilate means literally 'Hairy Bridges'.
In an act of goodwill, I was prepared to once more read the whole bible, because I understand it helps to buttress secular and humanist arguments. But after this discussion, I decided I am not prepared to undergo this kind of torture, and will continue to rely on what I already know. It's been more than enough.
Still one of my favorite episodes, David was awesome and was able to answer and deconstruct each lie the bible tells
Nice. There's still the "extraordinary claims require extraodinary evidence" thing, but I'm sure that can be blogged about..
Very good post from TAE.
I have often wondered if the water leaking from the body of Jesus (assuming that he existed for a moment) would have been instead plasma. In those days would anyone have known what plasma was?
Plasma is pale yellow. They'd have more likely mistaken it for piss than water
That is if it magically decided to seperate from his blood for no apparent reason
*The author makes excellent points and I agree with him. However, it's obvious most commenters don't realize that his conclusions would be considered radical among fellow historians and scholars of antiquity. This includes both religious and secular historians. Saying that 1% of his his peers agree with him would be a gross understatement.*
There's no reliable sources for an historical Jesus, the only thing going for him is the fact that itinerant preachers were a dime a dozen in that era....so Jesus being one of many isn't far fetched, and we can be fairly certain the an early Jewish Christian movement existed which would have had some sort of leadership, now whether that's a man named Jesus or not, who knows.
"...itinerant preachers were a dime a dozen in that era...."
Hell, that's still true even today.
Pilot also spoke of Hercules. So callers logic must be pilot wrote of Hercules, son of Zues, thus Zues exists... caller is intellectually dishonest
*Pilate
it was an aural tradition for decades before it was actually written down. The names of the Gospels were added years later.
Oral not aural
@@jesspavlichenko5745Both, actually. 😊
@888PsyMike888 it's not a listening tradition, it's a speaking tradition lol
@@jesspavlichenko5745 If nobody listens, how can they spread the word?
@@888PsyMike888 If nobody spoke the word, how could it be a tradition? Chicken before the egg
So wait Protestants don’t include gospels written after 100 CE but John was written after 200CE? Did the caller not listen to anything that was said?
No john was written 90-100 ad you have heard lies
Great show, I've just subscribed how could I not when Mr Fitzgerald is spitting pure facts. 👏
This guy is a classic "PRATT" (Aron Ra's classification)...
Why is NEPy still afraid to have a real, scheduled debate rather than a fight in the YT comments section? That's not a debate.
Because it’s pathetic troll which wants attention, any kind of attention.
When you lose your parents, you're an orphan. When you lose your spouse, you're a widower. But when you lose yourself to a cult like atheism, there's no other word for it but "stupid."
@@jamespowers5951 No, atheism is not a cult. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods or the absence of a belief in the existence of deities. Unlike a cult, atheism does not involve a specific set of religious or spiritual doctrines, rituals, or practices. It is merely a position on the question of belief in gods.
Atheists may hold a wide range of views and philosophies on various aspects of life, morality, and the universe. While there may be organized atheist groups or communities, these do not inherently qualify as cults. Cults are typically characterized by strong central leadership, strict control over members, and often unorthodox or extreme beliefs and practices.
It's important to use precise language and avoid generalizations when discussing beliefs and non-beliefs, as broad labels like "cult" can carry negative connotations and may not accurately describe diverse groups or individuals.
Also, we get to have our own personality as atheists instead of being slaves to god like you. And before you say we'll become slaves to Satan, heaven is basically Stalin's government where you have to worship god forever and if you let it slip that you don't like him (and god can read your mind so he's basically Big Brother from 1984) you get sent to hell. But god doesn't give us a chance to change in hell. I don't believe for a second that hell is eternal torture. That is not what your so-called loving god would accept. Hell as an absence of god makes more sense, and a place I would be thrilled to go to.
Imaginary auhorship. It seems that apologists imagine what the situation and person was that put the pen to paper. The tendency to disregard "physical" evidence such as coins or bones or objects is beyond them as they desperately grab at written names in other text.Gr8! Peace ☮💜
Poor Andrew, barely got a word in edgewise as a river of facts flowed over him. I gotta check to see if my library carries any of Dave's stuff. Probably not.
At the end of the day, theists only want to confirm that their own beliefs are true. As I have no reason whatsoever to believe in an afterlife, I have absolutely no reason to believe that Jesus Christ could save anybody.
It's weird how the entire world is on this timetable where in 2024 that means 2024 years after the death of this imaginary person
It's almost like you could go right to first principles and ask: "do you have evidence that a God exists?" We start at step one, not step seventy one.
Andrew: "What if I was stupid and believed everything I was gold?"
He just disagreed with all the facts and moved on with his assertions😂😂
There being a preacher by that name at that time I find easy to believe. The idea that the early Christian’s just fabricated their central figure out of nothing just doesn’t make sense to me. But all the specific claims about his life is pretty up in the air.
lol caller says something he get told NOPE then he like ok lets start NOPE ok lets start NOPE ok lets...20 minutes later oK "Lets start with" lol
Didn’t caller ever call back or post on Reddit? Curious as to what happened
He went home and sucked his thumb.
He went home to rethink his life.
"Do you believe X existed?" We have proof they existed
"But it's not written" We have more than just written sources so we have proof X existed
"Do you believe B existed" Oh here we go"
god the editing ;)
The first 300 years of Christianity was considered a cult?
No the first 2024 years is considered a cult- we never stopped “believing “
All I have to say about this discussion is .. gods damn this caller got his ass spanked! 😂
"I disagree Mr. EXPERT!"
Then give your best evidence for your mythical Jesus and watch it get monstered.
What we are told about Pontius Pilate is not true? I can’t believe they allow a TH-cam channel to spuriously claim that Pilate didn’t know Biggus Dickus.
As usual, the atheist knows way more about the Bible than the Christian
The meaning of “REAL TIME” is the actual time during which something takes place and it’s an IRREFUTABLE FACT that no atheist idea can be SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVED IN REAL TIME (e.g. big bang, abiogenesis, mistakes (mutations) gaining in complexity/new information, new anatomy differing from ancestry/evolution). That’s because NONE OF IT has ever been observed, because NONE OF IT IS POSSIBLE.
Only TRUE NATURE (e.g. flower bloom, reproduction, photosynthesis, digestion, respiration, gravity, sunshine) can be SCIENTIFICALLY OBSERVED IN REAL TIME
You should call in and see what the hosts say.
The irony that those things that can't be observed, have actually either been observed or we've 9bserved evidence that they happened.
Also those aren't athiest ideas, those are scientific ideas. Maybe learn what things even are before you start making stupid claims about them, cause right now you just look like an idiot who never bothered to pick up a book.
Sometimes ya just gotta give it to some theist's endurance & ability to endlessly argue absolute nonsense
Church leaders in the second century would not have needed to give the Gospels their names if they was actually written by who they claim.
It's quite clear that the caller is not actually paying attention to him. It's interesting how he points out where he disagrees.
You disagree? You clearly do not know your gospels
The “better question” is how many credentialed academic historians think Jesus never existed. Bart Ehrman could answer that question for you.
Can someone explain to me why these names like Mathew, Luke and John have been anglicised. I know that the King James bible was translated in the early 1600's. But surely these names from the middle East in the iron age would have been different. By the way, the faith you believe in depends on where you are born.
God wrote the Bible, so what you see is what you get and you're wrong about ones faith being locked down to ones birthplace. Intellect overrides the teachings of youth; thus, it doesn’t matter where you were born. There are millions of Christians in the Chinese underground. There are thousands of daily conversions to Christianity in Muslim nations and there are actually atheists in the Christian nation of the U.S. Go figure.
@@jamespowers5951Ah another blabber of nothing. God wrote the bible? So why the contradictions? Why does Jesus say 4 different things as "his last words before death"? Why jesus acts in different ways in the same event? Why does Mary and Joseph do 2 different things just after Jesus birth? Why are there two different genealogies of jesus? And don't give me that "one is Joseph one is Mary's" genealogy. I takes no sense, and in both the context is clearly Joseph genealogy since it starts with him.
Also I guess god really liked that slavery thing. And he really liked those bashing of the kids against the rocks. And he really steeled Pharaoh's heart just so he can kill more of the Egypt's children. What a loving god.
I always find it weird how Christians never use the same reasoning for other bekiefs, like hiw the city of troy existing clearly proves that the Greek pantheon is real.
It must be really frustrating to talk to non-believers that know much more about the subject than you do. And who claim that their knowledge is the reasons for their non-belief. It's almost like the more you know, the less you believe.
Has David Fitzgerald debated the historicity with anyone?
A classic believer malfunction - using his bible to validate his bible. We have zero documents, document fragments, or words on any page written from the biblical character, Jesus’, own hand. This is an uncomfortable fact for Christians given they believe their god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and infallible. But he just didn't have the intelligence or capability to create a literate version of his son-self. I'm in the last few chapters of reading David Fitzgerald's "Nailed" and it's overwhelmingly clear that Christian writers stretched their fictional stories beyond the scope of a skeptical reader's fascination with suspending disbelief.
Neither Judaism or Christianity are original belief systems. Of the many cultures and superstitious religions that influenced Christianity's evolution, Zoroastrianism, is one of the world's oldest monotheistic religions, having originated in ancient Persia. Zoroaster teaches that upon death souls stay with their bodies for three days until they are judged at which time they go to either heaven, hell, or an intermediate place comparable to Catholicism's purgatory. In Zoroastrianism, a twelve thousand year old cosmos comes to a conclusion when the last of three saviors, all born of virgins and having works that last a thousand years each, overcomes evil at the final judgement and raises everyone from the dead. All are judged, purified and reconciled to their God who creates a new heaven and new Earth.
great post and i agree
@@paulrichards6894 Much Appreciated.
Why would there be any evidence whatsoever for a nobody? Jesus's noteriety didn't occur until centuries later. At the time you want all the evidence was when he was unknown to the world except about 49 illiterate followers.
So who do you think is gonna write about him?
Who else but early Christian followers would know anything about him?
If there were reams of evidence, it would make it less believable.
The fact there is scant evidence is exactly what you would expect.
And lastly, why doesn't the logical smart, critical thinking atheist have the faculties to come to this conclusion?
Denial and bias. That's why.
Luke's surname is and always will be Skywalker!