Hi David, Thanks for the comment! I hope you are enjoying your machine. Any information you can add for others who might be considering the Synchronika. Got a feeling @eKnox47 would kike to hear. Marc
I purchased a synchronika with flow control last yr. Excellent machine. Flow control helps salvage bad shots when getting grind right.if its running real rast slow it down, or choking take some pressure off and it speeds up flow. All because of marc and this channel
I do not have the flow control but waterline pre-infusion is my go to! I’d love to add the flow control to my machine.. Also the BWT Bestmax filter system!
Thanks for this video! I've had my Bezzera BZ13 PM for a little over a year now, and I couldn't be happier. It really seems to be such a well-made, high-quality machine. I make one to two cappuccinos per day, and am very happy with the steam power. Funny thing: I pretty much stumbled into buying this machine. I was taking an old Livia 90 that I hadn't used for years into our local Pasquini factory/showroom, here in Los Angeles. I wanted to see if it could be refurbished. They said no. So on a whim, I asked to see the least expensive machine they had on display, which turned out to be the Bezzera BZ 13. I'm a person who usually does a ton of research before buying anything, but I was there, and the machine was there, so I just bought it on the spot. And never regretted my decision.
@@jeffmezzullo5864 It's going great. I'm wondering, though, whether Bezzera still makes my particular model (BZ13). When I get on their website, I see BZ10 and BZ16.
I have the Bezzera BZ13 and it is a fantastic machine. the heat exchanger, the PID, the very small footprint, the programmable shot timers, are all amazing features at a the best value. Highly recommended!
Hey Marc, I purchased the ECM Synchronica along with the Ceado E37S grinder a week and a half ago based mostly on the recommendations of your reviews on Whole Latte Love. I really appreciate all the knowledge you have passed on through your videos it has made it easy to pick up the skills I needed to make a great espresso. The machines are amazing! Thanks and stay safe!
Hey C360, You are welcome and thanks you for the comment. That is an amazing pair and two of my favorites for high-end espresso! So far so good on the safety. Family and friends untouched with the exception of my daughter who finished a 14 day quarantine in Washington, DC yesterday after a coworker tested positive. She was negative the whole time. Be well! Marc
Great video Mark! Based on one of your earlier reviews, we got a Profitec 700 about a year ago now and it’s been an absolute joy to use! We have it plugged into a timer switch, so it’s there, ready to go, every morning when we get up😋. It’s been the perfect machine for us! Were now in the market for another machine for a second home, so really good to see this years round up from you. The Gaggia looks like it will be a good fit for us, but it’s going to be hard to resist another P 700 with the new flow control!,🙂😆. Keep the vids coming Mark, great job!!
Hi Chris, Thanks so much for the kind comment and feedback on your Pro 700! Timer switch is a great way to have a machine fully warmed up and ready to serve. The Classic Pro is a fine machine. I'm guessing your aware it's a single boiler so there's a little more involved when making milk drinks. But it is one of the fastest in it's class at reaching steam temp. My colleague AJ did a video recently demonstrating how you can start steaming prior to the Classic indicating it's ready to do so. Definitely worth a watch if you get the Classic: th-cam.com/video/czYfjWFDrjI/w-d-xo.html Marc
What are your thoughts on the lelit elizabeth? Seems to have good and quick temp stability, up to 3.5bar of steam pressure, programmable pump or steam based preinfuson, etc. Any big downsides or options you would prefer at the price? Maybe small boilers (but high power) would be worse for large volume? Thanks for all the awesome videos. I really enjoy your reviews and have learned a lot!
@@Edgeangle one thing that I found out which annoys me about the elizabeth is that the cup warmer doesn't work well, so that you would still need to put hot water in it before pulling a shot.. the bz13 gets the cups really hot according to Mark from WLL, and it can run in a commercial setting unlike the Elizabeth with it's small boiler. Plus the BZ13 is way sexier. I was about to get an Elizabeth earlier this year, then was set on a Mara X. Now I found out about the BZ13 and decided I care a lot about making fast shots and a quick warm-up, plus easy maintenance. This put it ahead of the Mara X for me now.
Hey Antonio, Thanks for subscribing - and I love it when people call me dude! I recently became a grandfather and really want my grandson to know me as "Grandude"! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage You guy teally r the best I have a rocky new with a missing set of fromt screws Was told they where m4 Its a modified doserless with doser removed Two screws gone and im trying to replace They hold the “blue beak” dispenser in place Any ideas?
Hi Michael, Happy to hear your Classic is still going strong! Why I always recommend people bypass the cheap espresso appliances and start with a true machine like the Classic Pro. Sounds like you've got the upgraditis! Marc
Hi MS, Thanks for sharing your longevity report. Sounds like you are keeping up with maintenance - also the ECM Synchronika is a well built machine! Marc
Been looking at the prof pro 600 . I thought this would have been your best value dual boiler machine pick. Great vids, love watching your reviews, we don't get many in the UK from UK sellers.😎👍👍👍
Thanks to your videos, I am just about to pick up the Profitec Pro 600, not as good as the Pro 700. Keep up the good work. I would certainly purchase it from you, if I lived in America.
Hi 78p, Thanks for the comment! Pro 600 is a very nice machine. It has the higher steam power like the 700. Boilers are smaller but you don't notice unless doing a lot of drinks. Marc
Purchased an ECM Synchronika in October from WLL and have been impressed with the machine from the beginning. In my rental, I’m not able to plumb it - but I still enjoy all that it has to offer & have been more likely to make a macchiato than I was before, given how easy the steam set up is to use. Paired with a reasonably capable grinder, I don’t see how you’d go wrong. Can’t say anything about the other options at that price point - however, I was pleasantly surprised to enjoy the ‘joy stick’ operation versus switches or dials. Also the shot timer / PID is really well executed and a must have as you learn the machine and work to get the most out of your beans of choice. Highly recommended.
Hi Joshua, Thanks a bunch for sharing your impressions of the ECM Synchronika and your recommendation. I truly appreciate owners like you contributing! She is an absolute beauty and an incredibly capable machine - best in class all the way around! Cheers! Marc
Another great one Marc. I'm a but surprised the Profitec Pro 300 didn't make the cut but I agree with all your other recommendations. Thank you for your work.
Thanks for the great reviews! So useful! Got a quick question: how the ECM would compare with something similar from La Marzocco, La San Marco or Victoria Arduino. Thanks!
Hi Am, Thanks for the kind comment and question. IMO the ECM is the class act of dual boiler machines. Excellent build quality and reliability. Best external case finishing in the business and with flow control of E61 group you get capabilities of other machines at a much lower price. Marc
Such a great video, Marc! I frickin love your enthusiasm about everything! I got really pumped for the BZ13 while watching this, but after doing research I realized it doesn't come with the option to run off a plumbed water line. I am starting a coffee cart and I'm looking for something with the capability and reliability of the Bezzera BZ13, but can be plumbed. Do you have some recommendations in that price range? Any info from the expert would be very helpful!
Hey Adam, Thanks a whole latte for the comment! If looking for a reasonably priced plumbable machine that's commercial rated have a look at the Crem One HX: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-hx-espresso-machine It's PID, plumbable, currently $1799 and has features like huge drip tray capacity and upward facing display that make it nice to use in low volume commercial service. Marc
Yet another wonderful video, Mark! Keep up the great work! I'm on the fence with two espresso machines, so I have a quick question. The Bezzera BZ13 DE & Profitec Pro 500 PID are nearly identical in price, so what really sets these two apart? And which one would you recommend? Thanks!
Hi M, Thanks for the question and the kind comment - I will! Both are fine machines and have excellent temperature accuracy. It comes down to which features are most important to you. If you want the timed volumetric dosing then you'll only get that on the BZ13 DE, can also go for the Rosewood upgrade and that puts you at about the same price as a standard Pro 500: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bz13-rosewood-accents Beyond aesthetics the big difference is the groups. E61 on the Pro 500 and Bezzera's own BZ heated group on the BZ13. Heated BZ group means from turn on to full warm up and ready to brew in about 8 minutes. It's ~20 minutes for that on the 500 with the E61 group. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Mark. As always a great video. I love the technical aspects of your videos. Would love for you to do an internal look at the Victoria Arduino Eagle One Prima. Especially the NEO technology and boiler.
Hey Marc, you highlighted the best semi-automatic espresso machines of 2020, but how would you rank each of these for reliability? Also, could a novice barista (at home) use any of these machines, or are some of them too complex for novice users? I'm working from the perspective that a novice could purchase a machine with tremendous range right off the bat and then grow in exploring and eventually mastering those features without necessarily upgrading from machine to machine over the years. Basically, one machine for many years of use that will take you from basics to very complex brewing - a machine that will ultimately provide the user with the familiarity that comes with time; like a fulfilling relationship that reveals more layers and complexities from year to year.
Hi Leo, Thanks for the question. Sounds like someone is trying to avoid upgraditis! The key to machine reliability is feeding with good water and doing routine maintenance. Lime scale deposits are the number one cause of machine issues. All machines featured here are reliable if you do those 2 things. That said, some machines are more into K.I.S.S. design which offers up fewer points of failure under the hood. Solenoid valves are potential trouble spots and some machines use more than others. But they are usually not a problem if you use good water. You want water with some minerals to support flavor and prevent over-extraction but you don't want it excessively hard and causing lots of scaling. IMO the Profitec and ECM machines are some of the best in build quality, internal components and K.I.S.S. design. There is a huge range of machines and choices can be overwhelming. If you want to avoid upgrading in the future bypass single boilers and look for a machine with PID controlled heat exchange boiler or PID dual boiler. PID is pretty much standard on DB machines and more and more common on HX boiler machines. While more expensive machines may seem more complex at first glance what most of their functions do is help to control variables and make life easier for the user making them more successful. If you want a machine that brings more layers down the road consider one with flow control. Out of the gate you can use the machine as though it had no flow control. Then as you build skills/knowledge and want to finesse high-end specialty coffees adjusting flow rate during an extraction opens up complexities and allows one to modify flavor. Most Profitec and ECM machines with E61 group are available with flow control. The Profitec Pro 600 is a good example: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Hope that helps! Marc
How do you like the Lelit Bianca? A dual broiler with flow control. They seem to be hard to get and somewhat expensive and would love to know what something with your experience thinks.
Hi Jonathan, I do have some experience with that machine. Depends on prices in your area, but if the ECM Synchronika with flow control is similar price go with the ECM. Build and finish quality is much better: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control The Sychronika is in our top 2 DBs of 2022 as well: th-cam.com/video/g9RmgLzBUGM/w-d-xo.html Hope that helps! Marc
Just subscribed. Fantastic videos. Any ETA for the 2021 version of this video to be released? Now anxious to see the differences in choices, and why, for this year.
Marc it’s all about the temp. You have to get a heat exchanger or pid. I picked up the Apartamento and I used the Mesca doro. Unbelievable taste. I tried the temp surf in gaggia and Breville always sour. It’s about tamp dose yes but if you can’t get that temp forgeddabiutit. - that’s how we say it here on Arthur Ave Bronx. .
Thanks for the great video Marc and WLL! I am torn between the Bezzera BZ13 and the Profitec Pro 500 PID. For the BZ13, I like the fast heat-up, more compact size, and levers rather than knobs, plus the lower price point, but I am wary of the proprietary group and its long-term repair-ability. For the Profitec, the possibility of adding flow control plus the standard group and higher popularity of the machine itself (larger community, etc) are appealing. Marc any input for me? Thanks!
Hi MM, thanks for the kind comment and question. No doubt the pro 500 is my pick for king of HX PID machines unless you want to pay more for Rocket's sexiness. The 500 is a "bit" more expensive than the BZ13 but may be justifiable depending on perspective. Either machine will serve for decades with proper maintenance. Long term, valves on the 500 are more robust. BZ13 does heat faster but that's easily overcome with the turn on anytime or from anywhere addition of a WiFi switch for a 500. I would not be concerned about the BZ group. It is more complex with the internal heating element but is very repairable. Many BZ groups in the wild and Bezzera is not going anywhere. Been in business longer than just about any machine company and still expanding. Flow control is huge if you get to the upper levels of espresso finesse - amazing with specialty coffees and more. IMO the question is: What do you want on your counter in 10 years and how deep do you want to go into higher end espresso? The BZ13 is the value play while the Pro 500 is the: I can justify the price over term of ownership decision to fulfill my desires. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks so much for the thorough and quick response. Decided to go with the Profi 500. Should be quite an upgrade from my 20-year-old (much upgraded, repaired, and loved) Gaggia Classic.
Have had the Gaggia Classic Pro for about 3 months now. Pretty happy with it. It is getting a lot of use. I will say that there are a couple aspects that are weird and may be the results of my poor technique or simply may be an issue with the design. Firstly, I find that if I don't remove the portafilter fairly soon after the shot, the basket will stick to the machine when you try to remove it. You have to then sort of try to put the portafilter on and off again in hopes of knocking the basket back into place. I thought this may be because I have too many grounds in the basket, but I have been pretty exact in the weight vis a vis the basket capacity. Not sure if this is common amongst other machine or not. The second issue may be related to the first. When putting on or removing the portafilter, the machine moves around the counter quite a bit, so you really have to grab and brace the steel edge of the machine for leverage. I don't actually mind that, but if this is common, the design should have a graspable handle on the body. Lastly, I will say that Mark's recommendation of the Maromas Orphea beans (in other videos) is right on. We have tried a bunch, and while many coffees have different merits, the Orphea gives a very classic shot almost every time.
Hey zz, Thanks so much for sharing your experience and my love of Maromas Orphea! Filter basket sticking in group is very common. Happens to me from time to time even on high-end machines with E61 groups. I'll pull a shot, get involved in something else and forget to knock out PF. Turn off machine with PF in place, go to use a day later and filter basket sticks to the group. Can happen without coffee in the basket as well. You could try a silicone group gasket. The stock gasket is a hard rubber - silicone gaskets are supple/flexible so you don't have to clock in as hard to get a seal. That could help with the machine moving around. Group gasket is a wear item so you'll need to replace the stock gasket at some point. Here's the Cafewerks gasket for The Gaggia Classic Pro: www.wholelattelove.com/products/caffewerks-silicone-group-gasket-73-x-57-x-8mm Hope that helps! Marc
I owned a Gaggia Classic Pro as well, I found there is no enough steam power to keep the milk spinning all the time if I started after the light is on.
Just asking can there be a comparison between the Drive and the synchronika. Both are great machines but i feel like the Drive has a leg up with the extra pre infusion option, easier pid, programmable wake up times and the fast heat option. Unless I'm missing something. Also i want to get the Drive but it's sold out on WLL and I see the ECM is still available which maybe makes me think the Drive is more desired
Hi d, Internally the Drive and Synchronika are essentially identical. As you stated, the difference is in the expanded controls/features available on the Drive. Also the Drive comes stock with flow control. The external finishing is a little nicer on the Synchronika and it has angled/balanced portafilters. PFs with the Drive are straight handled. As a newer machine to the lineup, we had less inventory of the Drive than Synchronika. But it has proven to be a popular machine. Marc
One thing never mentioned in any review from multiple sources is energy usage. Most machines require 20 to 30 minutes ramp up time. Any idea what the yearly energy and cost might be making 2 to 4 drinks a day with a machine like the ECM Synchronika? I realize energy cost is local but we should be able to figure out energy usage and a relative range of cost. Thank you
Hi PN, Here's a video I did awhile back testing energy usage on a Profitec Pro 700 which identical internally to the ECM Synchronika: th-cam.com/video/_cgeNhsBDaw/w-d-xo.html Video has calculations on startup power usage and power used once machine is up to temperature and sitting idle. Marc
I'm also looking for our first PID controlled espresso machine with flow control. Plus a good quality espresso grinder too. Maybe Ceado E6P. For repeating the grind size. My wife and I drink mainly black coffee now with our Bunn brewer. We used to have a Starbucks espresso maker. That lasted us about 15+ years. I love buying freshly roasted specialty coffees. Medium, to medium-light coffees. Some call it light-medium. That's just the lighter side of medium. Love fruit-forward type coffees. Some espresso coffees I've bought even lean that way too.
Hi KK, Thanks for the comment. Plenty of beans out there with the fruit and berry flavors for espresso. I've had Ethiopian Yirgacheffe bursting with blueberry flavor in the past! Those are typically in the light-medium roasts. a machine with PID temp control will help with those. Usually want to brew a bit hotter with lighter roasts in the 202-204F range. As @oracla mention a quality grinder helps a lot. The Ceado E6P with 64mm burrs is a good choice. Very solid build with high quality components. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Mark for all your help with coffee suggestions, and brew temps for light roasts. I didn't know that. I love light roasts. Picked up a 12 oz bag of high-altitude light roast the other day. Wow! Taste good with just my Bunn brewer. I know I'm missing out on not having a real espresso machine like the Profitec Pro models. Even just that single boiler ECM Classica. It's got a 33-ounce boiler for its flow control and might be all I need for espresso shots. But I like what I see with the rotary pump model too. We'll see. I love to watch your video's Mark. Good job! Stay safe and heathy out there! We all need you!
Hi, I’m looking to buy a espresso machine that can offer best crema (more crema then coffe in the cup) would you recommend Profitec 700 or bezzera matrix? Thanks
Producing crema is more about the coffee used and getting the grind size right. Classic Italian style bean blends like Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso Or Lavazza Super Crema: www.wholelattelove.com/products/lavazza-super-crema-whole-bean-espresso-coffee Produce lots of crema. Both contain some Robusta beans in the mix which help crema production - and they do not have to be extra fresh to do so. Another excellent 100% Arabica blend that uses all specialty grade beans is our very own Crema Wave: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-crema-wave-whole-bean-espresso Hope that helps! Marc
What do think of VBM DOMOBAR SUPER 2021 DIGITAL espresso machine? Can you please do a review on that and May be brief comparison with some of these dual boiler machines covered in this video. Thanks
One of my favorites videos each year as well. I really like the Bezzera Duo and having the touch control on the front. When is someone going to add control over the internet? Turn it on or make sure it is off would be a nice addition. Just a matter of time I suppose. Thanks Mark!
Hi m, Thanks for the kind comment and sharing your thoughts. It is just a matter of time for connected control. Couple of thoughts on that. Seems there are those who want more tech and connectivity and others who desire a more classic or K.I.S.S. design. I've discussed that in the past with folks at Rocket Espresso. Why I mentioned in the video how Rocket has always resisted permanent digital displays on their machines and do things like hide the PID controller behind the drip tray on their HX boiler PID machines like the Cronometro Giotto and Mozzafiato. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Yes, I've heard and understood Rocket's position on looks. I love the lower-tech (classic) look but I still want the control options. Having a removable display allows all the control and still have the great Rocket aesthetic. In truth, I don't know how much tweaking I would really do but Bezzera integrating the display looks pretty slick too. More of a 21st-century look. If I really want old school, I can go all the way and go lever! I know this is a hard question, but can you compare and contrast the top of the line Rocket, ECM, Profitec, and Bezzera machines? Which one does the repair department see fewer of? I think the Profitec is probably the best bang for the buck and I keep wavering on choosing one of the 4. Truth be told, any one of them is probably beyond my current state of competency (especially if we start talking about flow control!) but I always aim higher! Can you give a qualified recommendation? Thanks again! And BTW, my name is Matt. Stay safe amigo!
Great review! Would you recommend the ROCKET Espresso Cinquantotto over the La Marzocco Linea Mini? I pull 18-20 Shots of Espresso with my SMEG Espresso Machine and it always needs to be descaled after 10-15 Days, so I’m looking for an upgrade to a more high end machine. What justifies the $2,000 price gap of La Marzocco Linea Mini over the ROCKET R58 Cinquantotto since they’re both dual boilers? Thank you!
Hi Marc, great video as always! Are you familiar with the Lelit Bianca? It seems it has the same features as the profitec 700 and ECM synchronika. What are your thoughts on this machine (and compared to the other two)? Thanks in advanced for your answer! Greetings from Holland.
Hi LG, Thanks for the comment and question. It's not a machine we carry at this point so unfortunately I can't say much. In casual observation I believe the valves on the pro 700 and Synchronika are more robust. I think the hanging reservoir is kinda weird. Marc
Hi Mark, I need some held here 😊 I'm about to open a small bakery in south Italy, our expectations is to male something between 20 to 40 coffe and cappuccino a day. We have a limited budget for coffee machine and grinder ( around 2000€) . I'm thinking about Simonelli Oscar 2 and the related grinder ( on demand) . Could you please shed some light about the best machine on this pice range?
Hey Mark was confused between a few options amongst dual boiler machines/ HX machines for home use. Considering the availability and service in India. Profitec pro 700 Sanremo Cube Linea Mini Rocket R58,R60 Would love ur help/ opinion
Hi va, Thanks for the question. I'm not familiar with Sanremo so cannot render an opinion on that one. My order of preference for the remaining machines is: 1. Profitec Pro 700 w/Flow Control 2. Rocket R58/Cinquantotto 3. Linea Mini 4. Rocket R60 The Pro 700 w/flow control can do essentially what the pressure profiling R60 can but is more reliable and costs a lot less. The 700 is very reliable and well built. The R58/Cinquantotto is a decent machine but not as well finished as the Pro 700 and puts more into branding. The Linea Mini - you pay a premium for the LM name with no uprgrade in capabilites. Whichever machine you get be sure and feed it with good water quality to prevent scale! Or, be ready to pay a pro coffee tech to descale for you. Hope thst helps! Marc
I received my Synchronika (with flow control) a few weeks back and am loving it. It looks beautiful and works exceptionally well. I'm still perfecting how to pull shots with a bottomless filter (Illy Classica seems to channel very easily causing spurts and high velocity streams out the bottom in all directions at times) but am confident that I'll find the sweet spot eventually. One of my concerns with a machine like the Synchronika was not knowing how long it would take the boilers to get to temperature. I'm oftentimes in a hurry in the morning. This fear was unwarranted considering that everything heats up very quickly and I'm drawing shots within about 5 mins of turning it on.
@@oracla I have a Ceado 37S with the upgraded SSP Burs. Pretty sure that should do the trick. Orphea beans didn’t give me any issues. Illy has been rough, however.
@@Roughneck7712 Sounds like you have all the tools. As you have already pointed out, coffee choice remains the only other variable (assuming your technique is on point).
@@oracla perhaps the squirting isn’t channeling but is just something that routinely happens when using a bottomless basket. I don’t see any major signs of channeling inside the puck afterwards so I’m not entirely sure. The espresso is 1000x better than the pods I was drinking before so I’m happy
@@Roughneck7712 Have to disagree on this one. Squirting IS channelling and is absolutely not something that "routinely happens". I mean it does if you are not careful, of course, but it can 100% be avoided. Also this is not something you can easily observe in the puck.
Hi Sherlock, Thanks for the comment and question. IMO the Synchronika is top of the class as far as build quality. It's a level above anything else in internal components, external finish and detail. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I would definitely love more information between these two machines, I do believe the bianca and the ECM are the top of the line and I am torn to figure out how to decide between them. Especially what you get out of the box with the Bianca
@@pilosopo25 you must own a Bianca. I think it’s fairly well documented the build quality of the ecm is much better than the Bianca. That is the Biancas downfall. I’ve seen issues with drip tray leaking on many. The base is powder coated on the ecm for a reason. For the little bit extra I would think most folks would still choose ecm. Also performance of the ecm is much better so I don’t know why anyone would get the Bianca unless they are sold on the wood accents. Smaller steam boiler by quite a bit. Won’t get same performance.
Hi Marc, I purchased a Silvia less than a year ago and found myself making milk-based beverages every day (not what I was expecting when I purchased the machine) so I am thinking about upgrading to a dual boiler machine. After viewing your videos, my choice would most likely be the Synchronika. My question is, based on what’s available on the market for home espresso, is this the type of machine that one most likely wouldn’t feel the need to upgrade from for a long time? I can’t be making these types of purchases every year or two!! Thank you and happy holidays!
Hi B, Thanks for the question and apologies for a delayed response. IMO the Synchronika is the best available dual boiler machine. So, fairly certain you will not feel the need to upgrade for a very long time - if ever. Next step up from a Synchronika is a very big jump to something like a Dalla Corte Mina at >2x the price: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v Marc
Great vid Marc. Question on my minion specialista I took off top burr cleaned out but just put it back on special way. Do I need to align that top burr to bottom?? Thanks
Hey BP, Thanks for the question. No need to align anything. A nice feature of the Mignon grinders is the ability to remove and replace the top burr with no need for re calibration as the grind size adjustment is done by moving the bottom burr. Marc
Hi! Your vids are absolutely great. I just got a Synchronika. I have a quick question. Im having a little trouble understanding the PlD temperature control. The brew temperature seems straightforward. How does the steam control work? (I forget which is T1 and which is T2). I cant understand why there is need to adjust steaming temp. Wish you could make a video of how to use the non flow control synchronika. Thanks for the help!!
Hi Ward, Congrats on your new machine - Synchronika is top of the line! Steam temp is T2. Basically you set to get the steaming power you're comfortable with. Personally I go to the max at 272F which should give you about 2 bar of pressure in the boiler. Some prefer less pressure which gives them more time to work the milk before it gets too hot. But if you're good at frothing most go with more pressure is better! And if you missed it I just put up a video on simple methods for using flow control based on coffee roast level and/or age of beans for roast. I use a Synchronika and E37S is in the video: th-cam.com/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/w-d-xo.html In the description of that video are links to a whole "latte" more ways to use flow control that go beyond the very simple method. Marc
We bought a Rancilio Sylvia years ago from you guys and it was awesome for 15 years! My husband replaced the pump and it just hasn’t been the same since --can we ship ours into you to restore it?
Hi Sarah, Thanks for your patronage and 15 years of awesome is awesome! We do have a repair dept. But before you go there check out our support wiki for the Silvia. Might be something here which could save the repair: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Rancilio_Silvia/troubleshooting If you'd like to setup service contact us here for that: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us Marc
Can you suggest best entry level coffee grinder/expresso all in one. And easy to clean. And has different option for making coffees, latte and macchiato
WLL does not sell Lelit, one of the few brands mind you that they don't - so it is not reasonable to expect them to include a machine they don't carry.
thanks for the tip! in my country most distributors do not carry the flow control version/kit and lelit bianca equipping it by default is a godsend. I also like how lelit designs the flow valve tap to be bigger and easier to handle.
I bought a LaSpaziale DREAM espresso machine and, after a few months of problems in year one, the machine has been a champ. Lately, it seams like the water in the tank is getting used up quite quickly. I'm thinking either one of the tanks has been filled with something that limits the complete fill of the tank, or perhaps the temperature of the water 240 degees hjas caused the water or steam to dissipate when I leave the machine in the "on" position. The machine was purchased on the east coast and I don't want to go through the shipping process over and over again just to get it serviced. I'm in Los Angeles. Does Whole Latte Love service this unit, and if not, is there someone in the L.A. area who works on these units?
Hi Aziz, Thanks for the question. Just to be clear you mean an HX machine that has PID but it's hidden? Like on a Profitec Pro 500 or the Rocket Espresso HX machines? I'd go with the DB machine. But if going that far I'd get the flow control on the machine at purchase as it only adds ~5% to total cost. I know some don't care for visible digital displays (like a former Rocket Espresso designer I know) but I don't mind them at all. Most also function as shot timer too. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I mean like on a hx machine that has PID but is hidden, one can't set the exact temperature but it has modes where you can encrease temperature or lover temperature, but not exact. However, tests show that it is extremly acurate for being an hx machine. Why do I ask this? It is because I find myself in the dilemma of design over features between 2 machines. The hx machine (with e61) can be upgraded with a flow control peddle if I'd want one in the future. The DB machine (only e61 size but not e61) on the other hand has the ability of setting exact temperature on both steam and brew boiler. It can also set duration for a desired amount of seconds for pre infusion with steam or blooming or in combination. It is a very clever machine. Why I don't mention the names is cause you don't sell them and these are good in price where I live. My question here really is if I would choose the hx machine with a "standard e61 static pre infusion" (not adjustable like on the db), would adding the flow control sort of compensate the lack of pre infusion settings ? I mean that I might able to extract more coffee flavors from my beans so that taste will be more equally great? I think that this feature of the adjustablility of pre infusion is a nice feature (correct me if I am wrong here). Have you made general comparisons differences in taste of espresso (not milk) when being able to have longer pre infusion? I wonder how much more of flavor / nuances of the coffee one get if your able to set the pre infusion longer? Also, the ability to be able to set the exact temperature is tempting but not my biggest concern if the HX is very acurate and stable. I think that I would find that feature to be nice in the beginning but in real life I would get tired of that feature cause I don't se myself changing a degree up or down (Celsius) everytime I buy a different roast of coffee. Which coffee roasts (dark or light) are the most difficult for machines that can not set exact temperature for that specific coffee? Sorry for babbling :)
@@Eddian18 that would be a dream although it was between Elizabeth and Mara x and finally I’ve chosen to buy Mara instead cause it has to be pleasing to work with and design wise I love Mara. Put it this way in future I will add a flow control to it... if it becomes too expensive in total then Bianca would definitely be a better choice but today I can not justify around 800euro more for the machine even if I have the money for it. No happy wife then 😅. I’ve thought about it:)
Excelent video.. I' m from Argentina mi name is Marcelo and I'm interested in buying a Saeco Se50... could you help me with the decission abuot this machine. Thanks
Hi Mark, nice to talk to you again. I purchased a Eureka Mignon Specialita from you last year, and I love it, and you provided very valuable insight during the entire buying process. That said... at this point I'm thinking about upgrading the machine itself (a barista express), but I can't decide between the Profitec 500 (which isn't currently listed on your site though I know you carry profitec)/Izzo Vivi as HX/PID devices and the Rancilio Silvia Pro as a dual boiler/PID device. My brain keeps telling me to go with the Rancilio, but it's just not nearly as stylish, and I don't really need a dual boiler since I don't steam often, and when I do, it's not concurrent with actually brewing the shot. Are you still able to get the 500? How would you go about choosing between those two types of machines?
Hi g, Nice to talk to you again and thanks for sharing your impressions of the Mignon Specialita. Happy to hear you love it! So the Pro 500 is a very popular machine. Virus upped demand and at same time created supply chain issues. I recently did a review of the Silvia Pro and it's a feature first machine, Not the style of the Pro 500 but it's less $$. One feature on the Sylvia Pro you do not have to turn on the steam boiler if you don't want to. In my testing it had excellent brew temps. It heats up fast and has some other desirable features. Here's that video on the Silvia Pro: th-cam.com/video/zBu4lfoJGSw/w-d-xo.html Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I'm sure you're right, and I'm sure that I would burn myself half to death with the exposed hot parts on a machine like the Pro 500. That said... there's a reason that I'm not interested in, for example, a Decent machine. There's an element of tradition and history there which the E61-styled machines have and to which the more modern-styled Rancilio doesn't quite add up. I've can tell I've got some serious thinking to do.
I have a Baratze Encore grinder currently. Will that work for espresso with the Gaggia Classic or what would you recommend instead? Been doing pour over, aeropress, etc. for years and looking to start down the home espresso rabbit hole.
Hi AA, Thanks for the question. The Encore is not a grinder I'd recommend for espresso. But it could get you started. The problem? It's a small conical burr stepped grinder. So it lacks the precision in control of grind size required to dial-in grind accurately. If you start with the Encore you can always up or down the dose weight to compensate for imperfect grind size or use the pressurized filter basket that comes with the Classic in addition to the regular non-pressurized basket until you upgrade grinding capabilities. The other thing with the Encore is ease of use for espresso. You may tire rather quickly of grinding into a bin then dosing a PF from that. So much nicer to grind right into a PF. If you do go deeper into the rabbit hole I suggest avoiding appliance grade grinders and go with a machine grade. So bypass the plastic like Breville Smart grinders and look to something made of metal with better burrs. Some entry-level machine grade grinders to have a look at are the Eureka Mignon Facile: www.wholelattelove.com/products/eureka-mignon-facile-espresso-grinder And the Bezzera BB005: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bb005-automatic-grinder Hope that helps! Marc
I have a slight visual challenge in high contrast helps me see better I’m curious about the display on the ECM top-of-the-line do a bowler anywhere I can get some still pictures of that display
Hi Charles, Probably the best place to see the display is in this full review video of the Synchronika. Link is cued to a closeup of the display: th-cam.com/video/hunFv7E51L8/w-d-xo.html Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Mark, thanks for the very informative video. I’ve been using the barista express for 3 years now, I want to upgrade, but I’m torn between the ECM and the Rocket, which one would you recommend? Will there be a noticeable difference if I upgraded to one of these machines. Thanks.
Hi EK, Thanks for the question and you are welcome for the video. You will definitely notice a difference so long as you have a good grinder to feed either machine. IMO (and based on my rating) the ECM is the more capable machine if you go with the flow control version. Otherwise they are equally capable. Flow control allows one to finesse an extraction with things like extra long low flow pre-infusions which make s a huge difference if you are into working with relatively fresh from roast specialty coffees: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control Marc
I just purchased the ECM Synchronika December, it just arrived today (1/6/2021). What a beautiful machine. After about 48 hours (at least) of research, I decided to jump in largely based on the excellent video demonstrations and comparisons . TOO BAD IT LEAKS! What a huge disappointment. I just put water in the reservoir and drip, drip, drip. I pulled off the panels to see where the leak is located, of course, it from a coiled copper wire that is....broken. Nothing to do but start over. I'm hoping WLL will expedite a replacement.
Hi shan, It is a beauty and it must be very disappointing. Have to say something like that is exceedingly rare! IMO the Synchronika is the best built dual boiler available. A little surprising as every ECM machine is tested at the production facility in Milan with full heat-up, etc. I've been to their facility and have seen how they test. Then we setup them up and bench test here before shipping. I'm not exactly sure what piece you are referring to. Any chance your handy enough to replace leaky part if provided? That may not be the right solution but if you've got the skills to remove the part it could save a lot of hassle for return etc. Assuming you've been in-touch with customer service. If not, here's contact info: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us Marc
Hey Shan, To tag onto Marc's response. I just spoke with our tech support and they got your request and will be reaching out soon, if they haven't already. Hoping to get this resolved for you! AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the follow up. It's a part that will require soldering as it involves a copper wire where it's connected to a part where water passes through. Clearly, from my description I lack the expertise/know how to complete the repair. Your customer service has already initiated a return and the package was picked up today. I'm very much looking forward to getting the replacement Synchronika soon!
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the follow up. As I noted in my reply to Marc, the package was picked up today by UPS, so I'm eagerly awaiting my replacement!!
Hi, so basically if i don't plumb the machine but install the flow control kit i can mimic the line level pre infusion? set the knob to 2 bars pressure about like the line level while the pump kick in, and than turn the knob to fully open . am i right ?
Hi, Yes, Using the flow control you can mimic line pressure pre-infusion. It's not so much setting the knob at 2 bar pressure but adjusting to a flow rate that causes the pre-infusion pressure you desire. Depending on the type of pump you have in your machine you probably do not want to fully open the flow control valve. You'll get the stock flow rate of your machine with the FCD open 1.25 turns from fully closed. Fully opening the valve on a machine with a rotary pump can produce flow rates exceeding 25g/s. Stock flow rate on a rotary pump machine is ~11g/s. It's ~8g/s on vibration pump machines. More information on flow rates at various valve postitions in this article: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines Marc
Hi aa, Thanks for the question. IMO the Linea Mini is rather pricey given it's capabilities. The LM name gets a lot of respect but you may be paying more for the name than capabilities. Don't get me wrong they are well built machines but I come across many with similar quality, more capabilities and much lower price. I suggest taking a look at the commercial rated Crem One line of machines. All plumbable and PID, and models like the dual boiler Crem One Infuser offer possibilities beyond the Linea Mini. Check it out in this video: th-cam.com/video/S88TwFdLfns/w-d-xo.html Current pricing for the machine and more info here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-infuser-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Marc
Hi Mark, I have the pro 700 with FCD and I'm really enjoying my shots with it, just out of curiosity ☺️ what would be a great option to upgrade to next level of experience?
Marc, I have a barista touch and a gaggia pro. I use miscela D oro crema. Italian roast. Great reviews. When I pull on Breville it’s like blah no so great I even raised temp only ok. When I pull on Gaggia crema like what the name of coffee says I mean a lot. And a very balanced taste at only about 15 grams on the 58 mm. Is this because I really need to dial in more on the breville or is it because Gaggia is an espresso machine and Breville although a higher model in the Breville line up is still an appliance with a 54 mm portafilter. I mean man espresso with Gaggia is banging good. I don’t want to sell my barista but ????
Hi Dirk, Thanks for sharing you experience. Could be a bunch of variables causing the difference. Dialing in specifically for the Breville should help. But other things going on like potentially different dose weights and better thermal stability in the larger group heavyweight PF of the Classic. Marc
some major value you can bring for viewers/customers in incorporate blind taste test reviews for machine comparisons. another channel did one between 300 and 3,000 machine using a good grinder and she could barely tell the difference. consumers would appreciate real product value input where money spent on a machine actually makes a difference in the product. yeah, spending more does give more features, but the core should be the taste of the product! thanks!
Hi m, Thanks for the suggestion. I totally understand the request. Here's the thing... once you get to a certain level of machine they are all very capable and as the Italians will tell you it's more about the grinder and hand of the barista (skill) than the machine. That said, you are right as you go up in cost you are just getting more features with many of those features focused on controlling variables for more consistency shot to shot. And with that said, there are truly difference making features like flow control of E61 groups. I know without question I can make far superior shots from a fresh from roast, high altitude specialty coffee using flow control than I could on an entry level machine. Always beyond features are additional capabilities. Marc
Marc besides my barista touch I purchased the Gaggia Classic pro the 2018-2019 version. Do I need to mod this to a 9 bar spring or can I just leave it alone. I see people doing this but am I limiting the machine. Any advice thank you.
Hi Dirk, Thanks for the question. No, you do not need to mod the machine. It's true that if you measure the pressure in static system with no release it will be >9bar. But, when actually brewing pressure is released. Pressure and flow rate is where it needs to be for good extractions. Marc
Marc, I can’t get the espresso hot in the cup from my BZ13. The machine is warmed up, The temperature is set to 213. The cup is heated and I run water through group head before pulling a shot. Can I get the espresso hotter through the ECM Synchronika? I’m also considering the Bezzera Duo because of the third temperature gauge. How come you don’t read the temperature of the espresso in the cup?
Hi ta, Thanks for the question. IMO the Synchronika is the class of the bunch. Best internals and internal design. The other machines don't even come close to matching the external finishing quality of the Synchronika which is best in the business. Marc
Having it for a few years now, It's OK for the price. Lots of features the only big downside is that it doesn't handle light roasts. Best used for medium or italian style roast.
Do you ship to the philippines? Planning on buying an ECM Synchronika in the future. How much would be the shipping fee? A rough estimate would be very much appreciated!
Hi Vince, Sorry, we do not ship to Philippines at this time. I believe there are 2 ECM dealers in the your area. Check here: www.ecm.de/en/dealers/ Marc
Hi Mark, seeing you are selling the Breville range, would the Dual Boiler for $1100 get anywhere near this top5? Looking at durability, performance and value.
Hi MS, Thanks for the question. Many like the BDB and it ticks a lot of boxes at a low price - so there is value. In this video I stuck with products which I consider true machines. The Breville falls into the appliance category. Lots of plastic, proprietary parts and very low user serviceability. Don't get me wrong, with good maintenance it should provide a decent service life. But down the road internal issues are usually beyond a user's ability to repair and sending out for repair might result in a bill exceeding the products value. The made in Italy machines in my top 5 are far more durable. Little or no plastic with more robust parts and construction. Plus they are very serviceable with simple tools. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi Mark, I bought the The ECM Technika single boiler IV in Dec 2014 from you. Where do I go from here as a good upgrade? Although just used for 2 cappuccinos per day and more on Holidays, need more powerful steam and temperature control. Don't need Flow control. Just consistent manual quality and a noticeable upgrade from my current machine. La Marzocco Mini looks good but very expensive and needs more maintenance Many thanks, Tony Orlando Fl
Hi Mr. T, Thanks for the question and your patronage! Unless I'm missing something the Technika is a heat-exchange boiler machine so a little more capable than a true single boiler machine. For better temperature control PID is the way to go. If you want to go to super steam power the Pro 700 or ECM Synchronika Dual boilers are best in class with ~2bar steam pressure. If you interested both of those machines are rotary pump and plumbable to waterline. For a little less $$ you could go with the Profitec Pro 600. It's a dual boiler as well with the same best in class steaming power but uses a vibration pump and is not plumbable. Nice thing with the dual boiler is you can set the steam temp for the presssure you like and not affect the brew temp as you would on machine with heat-exchange boiler. FYI ECM and Profitec are made by the same company in same factory in Milan. Here the Pro 600: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc, I guess my question should have been what dual boiler machine is worth the upgrade in terms of making better espresso more consistently and froth milk faster? I don't mind paying more for the better machine. I think I noticed my heat exchanger ECM machine degrade over the years or I just need a more powerful , better model. Thx, Tony
Hi Marc. I’ve read some forum reviews that the synchronica and pro 700 have brew boilers that can only pull 2 shots before you have to wait for it to reheat. Have a hard time believing that to be true but wanted to check with you on that.
Hi Mike, Thanks for the question. Those reviews are flat out wrong. I've used the Synchronika and Pro 700 a lot! Under the hood they are essentially identical machines. Brew boiler is 25oz and quickly recovers - definitely well before one could prep the next shot! Marc
Hi, great overview. Im planning to buy an espresso machine, but i cant decide between an E61 Rocket appartamento and the Bezsera strega lever machine. I do see a lot of E61 machines in this video, but why you chose to put the E61's and not a Lever machine in this best category?
Hi Afzel, Thanks for the question. Sorry we did not include a lever inn our top 5. Lever machines can make some excellently sweet and syrupy shots! But, they are a bit more of a niche product these days. I do have a review of the Bezzera Strega here:th-cam.com/video/MXlzUW_bfII/w-d-xo.html Gotta say the Appartamento and Strega are two very different machines! Marc
Hi Mark. Just wondering your thought between the Rocket Mozzafiato Cronometro Type V now has the shot timer vs profitec pro500 with its stainless steel boiler and huge power.
Just curious, you mention the BZ13 as a best buy, but in other videos you mention the Profitec 500 PID. Which is better functionally and as far as repairs? Very interested in one of them.
Hi Jeff, Thanks for the question. The BZ13 is similar to the Pro 500 as an HX boiler machine with PID but at a lower price point than the Pro 500. There are some major differences however. The Pro 500 uses an E61 group which heats via thermosiphon. BZ13 uses an electrically heated BZ group. Profitec is known for build quality but there's nothing wrong with the BZ13. It's slightly more complex with electronic dosing and the heated group but that does not have a major impact in reliability IMO. Pro 500 is a very popular machine and is tough to get at the moment due to increased demand and lower production volume due to Covid. We expect a new supply of Pro 500's in mid march. Marc
Out of interest, is there a reason the Bianca didn't make the list? I'm considering both the Bianca and synchronica, but was leaning toward the Bianca as it seemed to have a few more features at a lower price point, although maybe without quite as nice a finish.
How do you rate the Breville BES870XL Barista Express Espresso Machine compared to Gaggia Classic Pro. I'm a novice here so is it worth paying so much more or at least start with the Gaggia as a beginner? I understand you can mod the Breville so that might be worth it in the long run???
Hi Grant, To me the difference is the Classic is a machine and the Breviille is an appliance. Metal vs. plastic, serviceable under the hood vs. proprietary components and more plastic, commercial size and weight PF vs undersized lightweight pf, real boiler vs. thermoblock. In terms of "long run", the Classic can easily go for years/decades and parts are cheap and easy to get. If the Breville bites the dust it's likely going in the garbage as a repair will cost more than its value. Marc
dude!! im in love with the bezzera bz13 de espresso machine. what would u say the difference are between. the de and the pm. also when are you going to get them back in stock
I just received mine. I bought the DE and had I to do it over again, I would get the pm with the rosewood. The black is nice looking in video, but it's the only plastic on the machine, and feels a little out of place on what is otherwise a beautiful machined piece of steel. The programmable buttons don't seem to work well on the DE. I get wildly different shot weights with the same coffee, grinder, and settings after programming a button. It's certainly not volume controlled. Without writing a whole review, the espresso making functions and the steam wand are great, the programmable buttons less so. I also had to pay for it two months before it came in stock. A bit of buyer beware, WLL is really giving me the run around on even basic tech support. Every time I call and ask someone for help they tell me something different. All promise to call back or have someone call me, it has yet to happen, and I've been calling since Sunday, Nov 15th. They were super nice during the order, but now that I need help after the sale, I've had nothing but the run around.
Hi H, Thanks for the question. PM is manual with no timed functions. DE does timed dosing so stops automatically but has a manual start stop as well. PM's are in stock more DE's expected end of December.
Hi Jacob, Thanks for offering your opinion on the BZ13. I'm not directly involved in our phone support but I did reach out to the manager. Sounds like your problem (grinder issue) was resolved and all is well. If not please respond to me in an original comment and I will follow up. Marc
ISO high performance for high altitudes. 5280 ft elevation where I live. which is the best fully aromatic espresso for high altitude locations? 15 bars or 18 or 19 bars of pressure best? Today I’m considering the Gaggia Babila. Thank you
Hi d, Thanks for the question. I responded to another comment of your in regards to high altitude operation. All super-auto machines operate with about the same brew pressure so you'll have little difference in performance. Brew pressure ratings on various machines are more marketing than real world. They most often just state what the maximum pressure the pump is capable of which has little to do with what's going on when brewing. Marc
hey mark I have a question I was looking at the following machines profitec pro 300, bezzera bz13 de and the profitec pro 500 pid with flow control. I know those are all over the ball park in price. but I want to do it right and once. my needs are as fallows brewing predominately for my self and occasionally for my family. 60% of the time im brewing espresso and ristretto and the other 40% cappuccinos. also I roast my own coffee don't know of that factors in but I thought id include it. what would you recommend. I know the 500 is like 1k more than the 300 so is the upgrade in flow control worth it. I know good pid is in portent because tempture greatly affects the taste of coffee or at least that's how I under stand how it works.
Hi Happy, Thanks for the question and sharing your needs. It makes advising so much easier! Any of those machines will provide consistent brew temps as they are all PID. As you roast your own coffee the flow control could help a lot! I use its all the time to tame brightness that's common in coffees the first couple weeks after roasting. A long low flow pre-infusion allows the CO2 to off-gas reducing brightness/acidity. At the moment, we are out of stock of Pro 500 due to high-demand and reduced production in Italy with Covid shutdowns. The ECM Classika is available with flow control but it's a single boiler machine so milk drinks are more of a process. Next machine available with flow is the dual boiler PID Profitec Pro 600: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Pro 600 has the same best in class steaming power as the Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. As a dual boiler you'll have independent control of brew temp and steam power. Some users prefer a little less steam power initially until they get their technique down. Hope that helps! Marc
Hi DS, Thanks for the comment. As mentioned those machines cost a heck of a lot more than the top dual boiler in this video. We madfe a conscious decision to not include saturated group machines in this top 5. The LM GS3 is a fine machine but I'd go with a Dalla Corte Mina which gives LM Strada capabilities at half the price. The Linea Mini is overpriced IMO - paying a lot for the LM name on that one and The Slayer is very expensive and limited to straight Slayer style shots. If you have the $$ the DC Mina is the best of the bunch: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v Marc
I'm in the market for a new espresso machine. I have currently a Mr. Coffee machine, the basic one. I have had my eye on the Mr. Coffee cafe barista for a while now. Then I started looking at the Mr. Coffee one touch version. I was all set on getting it. As I was still looking at options I came across the Espresso works machine, which has caught my eye. I like those because they are not super costly, and automatic milk frother. I'm slightly questioning the quality of milk froth automatic frothers provide. I kind of want to find a version that has a manuel frother in my mind I think manuel ones will give a richer froth. I need help, what are your choices and thoughts on the Machines I mentioned. Also feel free to suggest others.
Hey Professor X, Thanks for the question. My honest thoughts... The type of "espresso makers" you are looking at are what I call espresso appliances. Compared to the machines in this video they use thermoblock boilers which are not great at temperature stability. The Mr. Coffee uses a lightweight pressurized filter basket. That's what you want if you will not be grinding coffee fresh and using pre-ground. Just understand that pressurized brewing with pre-ground produces inferior espresso compared to fresh ground in standard non-pressurized filter baskets. You are right about the froth. It's lower quality out of the automatic milk frothers. Typically one density that's usually on the airier cappuccino style. You will not get the extra-fine latte art quality froth from these. That said, manual frothing takes some skill but once you master the technique you can have your froth any density or temperature you like - just takes some effort. If you are just getting into home espresso the appliance grade products can get you going. For some they may produce what they want. Others will find them limiting. Machine grade products are capable of much better drinks with higher quality espresso and milk froth. If you think you'll be doing espresso for a long time or going deeper into espresso then I highly recommend taking a look at the Gaggia Classic Pro. It's a true machine with commercial size/weight portafilter, real boiler, 3-way solenoid valve for dry coffee pucks, manual steam wand for better froth. It comes out of the box with pressurized and non-pressurized filter baskets. So you can start without a grinder and use pre-ground and down the road use fresh ground to up your espresso quality. The GCP can go for decades with proper maintenance. Should something go wrong they are very easy for most home users to repair, parts are cheap and readily available. When something goes wrong with an appliance grade product they usually end up in the garbage. Machines are a bigger upfront investment but pay off with better drinks and longevity. And should you decide you don't lime espresso anymore used machines retain value, are in high demand so sell quickly. Hope that helps! Marc
I have a $3000 budget and want to get a home espresso machine that will get used at least once a day. I do care about design and build quality. I will have it plumed in. Rocket has caught my eye but is the design and branding impacting me too much? any updates for 2121?
Hi Tristan, Thanks for the question. IMO Profitec/ECM are top in build quality internally and best finishing on the outside. The Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are essentially the same machine under the hood. Both are aseembled in the same facility near Milan, Italy. The Pro 700 w/flow control is in your budget: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-with-flow-control The Synchronika improves a little on the exterior finishing with things like lever operated steam/water valves, a subtle taper to the E61 group and angled portafilters. Stnadard Synchronika is right at your budget: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-espresso-machine For a little more you can go with flow control. Hope that helps! Marc
Hey Matthew, Thanks for the question. Excellent quality in both. Bezzera is one of the oldest Italian manufacturers of espresso machines. Been doing it for more than a century. They also make more of their own components in-house than just about any other manufacturer. I've been to their production facility. If interested here's some video from their factory which includes more on their history and behind the scenes of manufacturing: th-cam.com/video/KY14ND7_Exs/w-d-xo.html Crem which is more widely know for their Expobar machines has headquarters in Spain. We've been working with them for nearly 2 decades. For many years the Expobar machines were IMO the best values on a price performance basis. Very well made with tank like construction. Perhaps not the prettiest machines lacking some finishing details which do not affect capabilities. Recently Crem was acquired by the US based company Welbilt. They specialize in commercial food service products. With the acquisition a decision was made to only offer Crem products in North America which have certification for commercial use. With that, the Expobar brand was no longer offered in North America. Crem's "One" line of machines became available in North America a few weeks ago. Unlike Expobar they have commercial use ratings. They offer a much richer feature set than previous Expobar machines while retaining some legacy features that made Expobar special like a custom pre-infusion chamber above the shower screen of E61 groups and dual boiler machines which have the brew boiler water pre-heated by a heat-exchanger in the service boiler. Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Man Any ideas on show rooms near us in denver? I like ecm and saw they manufacture in italy somewhat of a twist Seems they all do pid single b’s Well We prob are a ways out from purchase Again So much love for you guys It is very clear you put your heart and soul into this, “its not a job its a passion”
I have been using my Gaggia Classic for over 6 years weekly always making great espresso and steamed milk.
Me too. 10 years.
@@kristofferglennpfalmer4751 is it fast enough if you have guests in the house and need to make ex. 5 cortados?
Because of this channel I purchased the Synchronika 2 years ago!
Hi David, Thanks for the comment! I hope you are enjoying your machine. Any information you can add for others who might be considering the Synchronika. Got a feeling @eKnox47 would kike to hear.
Marc
I purchased a synchronika with flow control last yr.
Excellent machine. Flow control helps salvage bad shots when getting grind right.if its running real rast slow it down, or choking take some pressure off and it speeds up flow.
All because of marc and this channel
I do not have the flow control but waterline pre-infusion is my go to! I’d love to add the flow control to my machine.. Also the BWT Bestmax filter system!
@@davidm8046 the waterline preinfusion is the best i used it every shot.way more important than the flow control.
Same here going on 2 years after i had my profitec 500 for a year
Been waiting all year for this video
Thank you so much for all your work and dedication
Best regards from germany
Hi R, And thank you for the kind comment - Enjoy! Might be a machine or 2 with a German connection in the top 5
Marc
Thanks for this video! I've had my Bezzera BZ13 PM for a little over a year now, and I couldn't be happier. It really seems to be such a well-made, high-quality machine. I make one to two cappuccinos per day, and am very happy with the steam power. Funny thing: I pretty much stumbled into buying this machine. I was taking an old Livia 90 that I hadn't used for years into our local Pasquini factory/showroom, here in Los Angeles. I wanted to see if it could be refurbished. They said no. So on a whim, I asked to see the least expensive machine they had on display, which turned out to be the Bezzera BZ 13. I'm a person who usually does a ton of research before buying anything, but I was there, and the machine was there, so I just bought it on the spot. And never regretted my decision.
Hi Jackie, Thank you so much for sharing your experience with the BZ13. It is a wonderful machine. Fantastic value in HX boiler with PID.
Marc
I'm really considering this machine. Jackie, after 2 years of having it how is it going?
@@jeffmezzullo5864 It's going great. I'm wondering, though, whether Bezzera still makes my particular model (BZ13). When I get on their website, I see BZ10 and BZ16.
I have the Bezzera BZ13 and it is a fantastic machine. the heat exchanger, the PID, the very small footprint, the programmable shot timers, are all amazing features at a the best value. Highly recommended!
Hi KZ, Thanks a whole latte for sharing your impressions of the Bezzera BZ13!
Marc
Hey Marc, I purchased the ECM Synchronica along with the Ceado E37S grinder a week and a half ago based mostly on the recommendations of your reviews on Whole Latte Love. I really appreciate all the knowledge you have passed on through your videos it has made it easy to pick up the skills I needed to make a great espresso. The machines are amazing! Thanks and stay safe!
Hey C360, You are welcome and thanks you for the comment. That is an amazing pair and two of my favorites for high-end espresso! So far so good on the safety. Family and friends untouched with the exception of my daughter who finished a 14 day quarantine in Washington, DC yesterday after a coworker tested positive. She was negative the whole time. Be well!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Glad you guys are all safe. Take care.
Just bought the ECM Synchronika with an ECM S Automatik 64 grinder. Can't wait to start working with it!
Hi P N, Congrats - it's an awesome machine!
Marc
Mark you are making any machines "the best" with your swift narration. Love you and your channel. Admire your effort.👍👍👍
Hi AS, Thanks for the comment. My swiftness might be influenced by a bit of caffeine - also a lot of info to squeeze in!
Marc
Great video Mark! Based on one of your earlier reviews, we got a Profitec 700 about a year ago now and it’s been an absolute joy to use! We have it plugged into a timer switch, so it’s there, ready to go, every morning when we get up😋. It’s been the perfect machine for us!
Were now in the market for another machine for a second home, so really good to see this years round up from you. The Gaggia looks like it will be a good fit for us, but it’s going to be hard to resist another P 700 with the new flow control!,🙂😆.
Keep the vids coming Mark, great job!!
Hi Chris, Thanks so much for the kind comment and feedback on your Pro 700! Timer switch is a great way to have a machine fully warmed up and ready to serve. The Classic Pro is a fine machine. I'm guessing your aware it's a single boiler so there's a little more involved when making milk drinks. But it is one of the fastest in it's class at reaching steam temp. My colleague AJ did a video recently demonstrating how you can start steaming prior to the Classic indicating it's ready to do so. Definitely worth a watch if you get the Classic: th-cam.com/video/czYfjWFDrjI/w-d-xo.html
Marc
What are your thoughts on the lelit elizabeth?
Seems to have good and quick temp stability, up to 3.5bar of steam pressure, programmable pump or steam based preinfuson, etc. Any big downsides or options you would prefer at the price? Maybe small boilers (but high power) would be worse for large volume?
Thanks for all the awesome videos. I really enjoy your reviews and have learned a lot!
I guess despite not being dual boiler Bezzera BZ13 might be the closest competitor here?
@@Edgeangle one thing that I found out which annoys me about the elizabeth is that the cup warmer doesn't work well, so that you would still need to put hot water in it before pulling a shot.. the bz13 gets the cups really hot according to Mark from WLL, and it can run in a commercial setting unlike the Elizabeth with it's small boiler. Plus the BZ13 is way sexier. I was about to get an Elizabeth earlier this year, then was set on a Mara X. Now I found out about the BZ13 and decided I care a lot about making fast shots and a quick warm-up, plus easy maintenance. This put it ahead of the Mara X for me now.
Dude, I love your enthusiasm! Subscribed.
Hey Antonio, Thanks for subscribing - and I love it when people call me dude! I recently became a grandfather and really want my grandson to know me as "Grandude"!
Marc
But it comes across like a daytime informercial.
I really value the details and the time and efforts !
Thank you very much! Appreciate you taking a moment to leave your comment!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
You guy teally r the best
I have a rocky new with a missing set of fromt screws
Was told they where m4
Its a modified doserless with doser removed
Two screws gone and im trying to replace
They hold the “blue beak” dispenser in place
Any ideas?
Rancilii rocky grinder
My next machine prob a similar to this “13”
Looks perfect for my habit
You have a great voice.. thanks for your time and effort.
Thank you too!
Marc
You sold me a Gaggia Classic 9 years ago and it's still going strong hopefully one day I'll be able to afford the profit x700
Hi Michael, Happy to hear your Classic is still going strong! Why I always recommend people bypass the cheap espresso appliances and start with a true machine like the Classic Pro. Sounds like you've got the upgraditis!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Yes thank you Marc. I love you guys. Hopefully soon I will be able to step up to the big boy ECM synchronika
I have a ecm sync old version. I did it 2k esp shot until two years.And now its still work excellent
Hi MS, Thanks for sharing your longevity report. Sounds like you are keeping up with maintenance - also the ECM Synchronika is a well built machine!
Marc
Been looking at the prof pro 600 . I thought this would have been your best value dual boiler machine pick. Great vids, love watching your reviews, we don't get many in the UK from UK sellers.😎👍👍👍
Thank you! Keep up the great videos. When I buy something espresso related, I buy from you because of the videos you create.
You’re welcome!
Thanks to your videos, I am just about to pick up the Profitec Pro 600, not as good as the Pro 700. Keep up the good work. I would certainly purchase it from you, if I lived in America.
Hi 78p, Thanks for the comment! Pro 600 is a very nice machine. It has the higher steam power like the 700. Boilers are smaller but you don't notice unless doing a lot of drinks.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. Your input is always valuable. Keep up the good work.
Purchased an ECM Synchronika in October from WLL and have been impressed with the machine from the beginning. In my rental, I’m not able to plumb it - but I still enjoy all that it has to offer & have been more likely to make a macchiato than I was before, given how easy the steam set up is to use. Paired with a reasonably capable grinder, I don’t see how you’d go wrong. Can’t say anything about the other options at that price point - however, I was pleasantly surprised to enjoy the ‘joy stick’ operation versus switches or dials. Also the shot timer / PID is really well executed and a must have as you learn the machine and work to get the most out of your beans of choice. Highly recommended.
Hi Joshua, Thanks a bunch for sharing your impressions of the ECM Synchronika and your recommendation. I truly appreciate owners like you contributing! She is an absolute beauty and an incredibly capable machine - best in class all the way around!
Cheers!
Marc
Great channel. Subscribed.
Excellent comparison Mark. I have a quick Q. Which are the machines that have a three way solenoid valve like Gaggia Pro. Thank You
Hi SS, All machines in this video have 3 way solenoid or other valve which gives the same functionality.
Marc
Another great one Marc. I'm a but surprised the Profitec Pro 300 didn't make the cut but I agree with all your other recommendations. Thank you for your work.
Hi CA, Thanks for the comment.
Marc
Thanks for the great reviews! So useful! Got a quick question: how the ECM would compare with something similar from La Marzocco, La San Marco or Victoria Arduino. Thanks!
Hi Am, Thanks for the kind comment and question. IMO the ECM is the class act of dual boiler machines. Excellent build quality and reliability. Best external case finishing in the business and with flow control of E61 group you get capabilities of other machines at a much lower price.
Marc
Excellent review thank you!
Hi hH, You are welcome and thanks for taking a moment to leave a comment!
Marc
Such a great video, Marc! I frickin love your enthusiasm about everything! I got really pumped for the BZ13 while watching this, but after doing research I realized it doesn't come with the option to run off a plumbed water line. I am starting a coffee cart and I'm looking for something with the capability and reliability of the Bezzera BZ13, but can be plumbed. Do you have some recommendations in that price range? Any info from the expert would be very helpful!
Hey Adam, Thanks a whole latte for the comment! If looking for a reasonably priced plumbable machine that's commercial rated have a look at the Crem One HX: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-hx-espresso-machine
It's PID, plumbable, currently $1799 and has features like huge drip tray capacity and upward facing display that make it nice to use in low volume commercial service.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you, so much, Marc!
Yet another wonderful video, Mark! Keep up the great work! I'm on the fence with two espresso machines, so I have a quick question. The Bezzera BZ13 DE & Profitec Pro 500 PID are nearly identical in price, so what really sets these two apart? And which one would you recommend? Thanks!
Hi M, Thanks for the question and the kind comment - I will! Both are fine machines and have excellent temperature accuracy. It comes down to which features are most important to you. If you want the timed volumetric dosing then you'll only get that on the BZ13 DE, can also go for the Rosewood upgrade and that puts you at about the same price as a standard Pro 500: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bz13-rosewood-accents
Beyond aesthetics the big difference is the groups. E61 on the Pro 500 and Bezzera's own BZ heated group on the BZ13. Heated BZ group means from turn on to full warm up and ready to brew in about 8 minutes. It's ~20 minutes for that on the 500 with the E61 group. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That's a big help, thanks again Mark, much appreciated!☕
Hey Mark. As always a great video. I love the technical aspects of your videos. Would love for you to do an internal look at the Victoria Arduino Eagle One Prima. Especially the NEO technology and boiler.
Great suggestion!
Hey Marc, you highlighted the best semi-automatic espresso machines of 2020, but how would you rank each of these for reliability? Also, could a novice barista (at home) use any of these machines, or are some of them too complex for novice users? I'm working from the perspective that a novice could purchase a machine with tremendous range right off the bat and then grow in exploring and eventually mastering those features without necessarily upgrading from machine to machine over the years. Basically, one machine for many years of use that will take you from basics to very complex brewing - a machine that will ultimately provide the user with the familiarity that comes with time; like a fulfilling relationship that reveals more layers and complexities from year to year.
Hi Leo, Thanks for the question. Sounds like someone is trying to avoid upgraditis! The key to machine reliability is feeding with good water and doing routine maintenance. Lime scale deposits are the number one cause of machine issues. All machines featured here are reliable if you do those 2 things. That said, some machines are more into K.I.S.S. design which offers up fewer points of failure under the hood. Solenoid valves are potential trouble spots and some machines use more than others. But they are usually not a problem if you use good water. You want water with some minerals to support flavor and prevent over-extraction but you don't want it excessively hard and causing lots of scaling. IMO the Profitec and ECM machines are some of the best in build quality, internal components and K.I.S.S. design.
There is a huge range of machines and choices can be overwhelming. If you want to avoid upgrading in the future bypass single boilers and look for a machine with PID controlled heat exchange boiler or PID dual boiler. PID is pretty much standard on DB machines and more and more common on HX boiler machines. While more expensive machines may seem more complex at first glance what most of their functions do is help to control variables and make life easier for the user making them more successful. If you want a machine that brings more layers down the road consider one with flow control. Out of the gate you can use the machine as though it had no flow control. Then as you build skills/knowledge and want to finesse high-end specialty coffees adjusting flow rate during an extraction opens up complexities and allows one to modify flavor. Most Profitec and ECM machines with E61 group are available with flow control. The Profitec Pro 600 is a good example: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Hope that helps!
Marc
How do you like the Lelit Bianca? A dual broiler with flow control. They seem to be hard to get and somewhat expensive and would love to know what something with your experience thinks.
Hi Jonathan, I do have some experience with that machine. Depends on prices in your area, but if the ECM Synchronika with flow control is similar price go with the ECM. Build and finish quality is much better: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
The Sychronika is in our top 2 DBs of 2022 as well: th-cam.com/video/g9RmgLzBUGM/w-d-xo.html
Hope that helps!
Marc
Just subscribed. Fantastic videos. Any ETA for the 2021 version of this video to be released? Now anxious to see the differences in choices, and why, for this year.
Hi AA, Wonderful timing and thanks for subscribing! Posting video today with our 5 favorite dual boiler semi-autos of 2021.
Marc
Great video! I’m starting a coffee cart business. What machine would you suggest for this application? Thanks for your time .
Marc it’s all about the temp. You have to get a heat exchanger or pid. I picked up the Apartamento and I used the Mesca doro. Unbelievable taste. I tried the temp surf in gaggia and Breville always sour. It’s about tamp dose yes but if you can’t get that temp forgeddabiutit. - that’s how we say it here on Arthur Ave Bronx. .
Hey Dirk, Good temps help and yes much easier on solid PID machines.
Marc
Hi Marc!. Amazing review!!!
Can you make a review about La Spaziale S1 II mini Vivaldi???..... It would be great!!!
Thank you very much.
Soooo informative! Thank you for this video!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for your comment!
Marc
Thanks for the great video Marc and WLL! I am torn between the Bezzera BZ13 and the Profitec Pro 500 PID. For the BZ13, I like the fast heat-up, more compact size, and levers rather than knobs, plus the lower price point, but I am wary of the proprietary group and its long-term repair-ability. For the Profitec, the possibility of adding flow control plus the standard group and higher popularity of the machine itself (larger community, etc) are appealing. Marc any input for me? Thanks!
Hi MM, thanks for the kind comment and question. No doubt the pro 500 is my pick for king of HX PID machines unless you want to pay more for Rocket's sexiness. The 500 is a "bit" more expensive than the BZ13 but may be justifiable depending on perspective. Either machine will serve for decades with proper maintenance. Long term, valves on the 500 are more robust. BZ13 does heat faster but that's easily overcome with the turn on anytime or from anywhere addition of a WiFi switch for a 500. I would not be concerned about the BZ group. It is more complex with the internal heating element but is very repairable. Many BZ groups in the wild and Bezzera is not going anywhere. Been in business longer than just about any machine company and still expanding. Flow control is huge if you get to the upper levels of espresso finesse - amazing with specialty coffees and more. IMO the question is: What do you want on your counter in 10 years and how deep do you want to go into higher end espresso? The BZ13 is the value play while the Pro 500 is the: I can justify the price over term of ownership decision to fulfill my desires.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks so much for the thorough and quick response. Decided to go with the Profi 500. Should be quite an upgrade from my 20-year-old (much upgraded, repaired, and loved) Gaggia Classic.
Have had the Gaggia Classic Pro for about 3 months now. Pretty happy with it. It is getting a lot of use. I will say that there are a couple aspects that are weird and may be the results of my poor technique or simply may be an issue with the design. Firstly, I find that if I don't remove the portafilter fairly soon after the shot, the basket will stick to the machine when you try to remove it. You have to then sort of try to put the portafilter on and off again in hopes of knocking the basket back into place. I thought this may be because I have too many grounds in the basket, but I have been pretty exact in the weight vis a vis the basket capacity. Not sure if this is common amongst other machine or not.
The second issue may be related to the first. When putting on or removing the portafilter, the machine moves around the counter quite a bit, so you really have to grab and brace the steel edge of the machine for leverage. I don't actually mind that, but if this is common, the design should have a graspable handle on the body.
Lastly, I will say that Mark's recommendation of the Maromas Orphea beans (in other videos) is right on. We have tried a bunch, and while many coffees have different merits, the Orphea gives a very classic shot almost every time.
Hey zz, Thanks so much for sharing your experience and my love of Maromas Orphea!
Filter basket sticking in group is very common. Happens to me from time to time even on high-end machines with E61 groups. I'll pull a shot, get involved in something else and forget to knock out PF. Turn off machine with PF in place, go to use a day later and filter basket sticks to the group. Can happen without coffee in the basket as well. You could try a silicone group gasket. The stock gasket is a hard rubber - silicone gaskets are supple/flexible so you don't have to clock in as hard to get a seal. That could help with the machine moving around. Group gasket is a wear item so you'll need to replace the stock gasket at some point. Here's the Cafewerks gasket for The Gaggia Classic Pro: www.wholelattelove.com/products/caffewerks-silicone-group-gasket-73-x-57-x-8mm
Hope that helps!
Marc
I owned a Gaggia Classic Pro as well, I found there is no enough steam power to keep the milk spinning all the time if I started after the light is on.
Just asking can there be a comparison between the Drive and the synchronika. Both are great machines but i feel like the Drive has a leg up with the extra pre infusion option, easier pid, programmable wake up times and the fast heat option. Unless I'm missing something. Also i want to get the Drive but it's sold out on WLL and I see the ECM is still available which maybe makes me think the Drive is more desired
Hi d, Internally the Drive and Synchronika are essentially identical. As you stated, the difference is in the expanded controls/features available on the Drive. Also the Drive comes stock with flow control. The external finishing is a little nicer on the Synchronika and it has angled/balanced portafilters. PFs with the Drive are straight handled. As a newer machine to the lineup, we had less inventory of the Drive than Synchronika. But it has proven to be a popular machine.
Marc
One thing never mentioned in any review from multiple sources is energy usage. Most machines require 20 to 30 minutes ramp up time. Any idea what the yearly energy and cost might be making 2 to 4 drinks a day with a machine like the ECM Synchronika? I realize energy cost is local but we should be able to figure out energy usage and a relative range of cost. Thank you
Hi PN, Here's a video I did awhile back testing energy usage on a Profitec Pro 700 which identical internally to the ECM Synchronika: th-cam.com/video/_cgeNhsBDaw/w-d-xo.html Video has calculations on startup power usage and power used once machine is up to temperature and sitting idle.
Marc
I'm also looking for our first PID controlled espresso machine with flow control. Plus a good quality espresso grinder too. Maybe Ceado E6P. For repeating the grind size. My wife and I drink mainly black coffee now with our Bunn brewer. We used to have a Starbucks espresso maker. That lasted us about 15+ years. I love buying freshly roasted specialty coffees. Medium, to medium-light coffees. Some call it light-medium. That's just the lighter side of medium. Love fruit-forward type coffees. Some espresso coffees I've bought even lean that way too.
For light roast you really need an excellent grinder and a good machine. Good luck with your choice.
Hi KK, Thanks for the comment. Plenty of beans out there with the fruit and berry flavors for espresso. I've had Ethiopian Yirgacheffe bursting with blueberry flavor in the past! Those are typically in the light-medium roasts. a machine with PID temp control will help with those. Usually want to brew a bit hotter with lighter roasts in the 202-204F range. As @oracla mention a quality grinder helps a lot. The Ceado E6P with 64mm burrs is a good choice. Very solid build with high quality components.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Mark for all your help with coffee suggestions, and brew temps for light roasts. I didn't know that. I love light roasts. Picked up a 12 oz bag of high-altitude light roast the other day. Wow! Taste good with just my Bunn brewer. I know I'm missing out on not having a real espresso machine like the Profitec Pro models. Even just that single boiler ECM Classica. It's got a 33-ounce boiler for its flow control and might be all I need for espresso shots. But I like what I see with the rotary pump model too. We'll see. I love to watch your video's Mark. Good job! Stay safe and heathy out there! We all need you!
Can you please do a review of the new Bezzera Aria rotary pump with PID
Hi E, If/when I get my hands on one I will!
Marc
Hi Marc, what do you guys think about the Lelit Bianca are we going to get a video in the future or this machine?
Hi Felix, It's not a machine I have access to at this time. If/when that changes we will most definitely do a review.
Marc
Hi,
I’m looking to buy a espresso machine that can offer best crema (more crema then coffe in the cup) would you recommend Profitec 700 or bezzera matrix? Thanks
Producing crema is more about the coffee used and getting the grind size right. Classic Italian style bean blends like Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
Or Lavazza Super Crema: www.wholelattelove.com/products/lavazza-super-crema-whole-bean-espresso-coffee
Produce lots of crema. Both contain some Robusta beans in the mix which help crema production - and they do not have to be extra fresh to do so.
Another excellent 100% Arabica blend that uses all specialty grade beans is our very own Crema Wave: www.wholelattelove.com/products/whole-latte-love-crema-wave-whole-bean-espresso
Hope that helps!
Marc
What do think of VBM DOMOBAR SUPER 2021 DIGITAL espresso machine? Can you please do a review on that and May be brief comparison with some of these dual boiler machines covered in this video. Thanks
Thanks for your video. Can you do reviews on Saeco Aulika EVO Focus?
Hi Victor, You're welcome! Unfortunately cannot review the Saeco as I don't have one.
Marc
One of my favorites videos each year as well. I really like the Bezzera Duo and having the touch control on the front. When is someone going to add control over the internet? Turn it on or make sure it is off would be a nice addition. Just a matter of time I suppose. Thanks Mark!
Hi m, Thanks for the kind comment and sharing your thoughts. It is just a matter of time for connected control. Couple of thoughts on that. Seems there are those who want more tech and connectivity and others who desire a more classic or K.I.S.S. design. I've discussed that in the past with folks at Rocket Espresso. Why I mentioned in the video how Rocket has always resisted permanent digital displays on their machines and do things like hide the PID controller behind the drip tray on their HX boiler PID machines like the Cronometro Giotto and Mozzafiato.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Yes, I've heard and understood Rocket's position on looks. I love the lower-tech (classic) look but I still want the control options. Having a removable display allows all the control and still have the great Rocket aesthetic. In truth, I don't know how much tweaking I would really do but Bezzera integrating the display looks pretty slick too. More of a 21st-century look. If I really want old school, I can go all the way and go lever!
I know this is a hard question, but can you compare and contrast the top of the line Rocket, ECM, Profitec, and Bezzera machines? Which one does the repair department see fewer of? I think the Profitec is probably the best bang for the buck and I keep wavering on choosing one of the 4. Truth be told, any one of them is probably beyond my current state of competency (especially if we start talking about flow control!) but I always aim higher! Can you give a qualified recommendation? Thanks again! And BTW, my name is Matt. Stay safe amigo!
Great review! Would you recommend the ROCKET Espresso Cinquantotto over the La Marzocco Linea Mini? I pull 18-20 Shots of Espresso with my SMEG Espresso Machine and it always needs to be descaled after 10-15 Days, so I’m looking for an upgrade to a more high end machine. What justifies the $2,000 price gap of La Marzocco Linea Mini over the ROCKET R58 Cinquantotto since they’re both dual boilers? Thank you!
Hi Marc, great video as always! Are you familiar with the Lelit Bianca? It seems it has the same features as the profitec 700 and ECM synchronika. What are your thoughts on this machine (and compared to the other two)? Thanks in advanced for your answer! Greetings from Holland.
Hi LG, Thanks for the comment and question. It's not a machine we carry at this point so unfortunately I can't say much. In casual observation I believe the valves on the pro 700 and Synchronika are more robust. I think the hanging reservoir is kinda weird.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Lelit Bianca is superior and surpass all the reviewed machines in it class!
@@PVLGEORGIEV Lelit should juz focus make Iron
Leave espresso to Profitec n Rocket
Hi Mark, I need some held here 😊 I'm about to open a small bakery in south Italy, our expectations is to male something between 20 to 40 coffe and cappuccino a day.
We have a limited budget for coffee machine and grinder ( around 2000€) .
I'm thinking about Simonelli Oscar 2 and the related grinder ( on demand) .
Could you please shed some light about the best machine on this pice range?
Hey Mark was confused between a few options amongst dual boiler machines/ HX machines for home use. Considering the availability and service in India.
Profitec pro 700
Sanremo Cube
Linea Mini
Rocket R58,R60
Would love ur help/ opinion
Hi va, Thanks for the question. I'm not familiar with Sanremo so cannot render an opinion on that one. My order of preference for the remaining machines is:
1. Profitec Pro 700 w/Flow Control
2. Rocket R58/Cinquantotto
3. Linea Mini
4. Rocket R60
The Pro 700 w/flow control can do essentially what the pressure profiling R60 can but is more reliable and costs a lot less. The 700 is very reliable and well built. The R58/Cinquantotto is a decent machine but not as well finished as the Pro 700 and puts more into branding. The Linea Mini - you pay a premium for the LM name with no uprgrade in capabilites. Whichever machine you get be sure and feed it with good water quality to prevent scale! Or, be ready to pay a pro coffee tech to descale for you.
Hope thst helps!
Marc
I received my Synchronika (with flow control) a few weeks back and am loving it. It looks beautiful and works exceptionally well. I'm still perfecting how to pull shots with a bottomless filter (Illy Classica seems to channel very easily causing spurts and high velocity streams out the bottom in all directions at times) but am confident that I'll find the sweet spot eventually. One of my concerns with a machine like the Synchronika was not knowing how long it would take the boilers to get to temperature. I'm oftentimes in a hurry in the morning. This fear was unwarranted considering that everything heats up very quickly and I'm drawing shots within about 5 mins of turning it on.
You need top dollar grinder with top quality FRESH coffee if you want zero channelling.
@@oracla I have a Ceado 37S with the upgraded SSP Burs. Pretty sure that should do the trick.
Orphea beans didn’t give me any issues. Illy has been rough, however.
@@Roughneck7712 Sounds like you have all the tools. As you have already pointed out, coffee choice remains the only other variable (assuming your technique is on point).
@@oracla perhaps the squirting isn’t channeling but is just something that routinely happens when using a bottomless basket. I don’t see any major signs of channeling inside the puck afterwards so I’m not entirely sure.
The espresso is 1000x better than the pods I was drinking before so I’m happy
@@Roughneck7712 Have to disagree on this one. Squirting IS channelling and is absolutely not something that "routinely happens". I mean it does if you are not careful, of course, but it can 100% be avoided. Also this is not something you can easily observe in the puck.
Great overview of these machines. 😎🙌🏼. How does the Lelit Bianca stand up against these 2020 picks - mainly the ECM Synchronika?
Hi Sherlock, Thanks for the comment and question. IMO the Synchronika is top of the class as far as build quality. It's a level above anything else in internal components, external finish and detail.
Marc
Build quality? Synchronika has coated metal base prone to rust compared to Bianca all stainless.
@@Wholelattelovepage I would definitely love more information between these two machines, I do believe the bianca and the ECM are the top of the line and I am torn to figure out how to decide between them. Especially what you get out of the box with the Bianca
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc! Love the information, been watching for years now
@@pilosopo25 you must own a Bianca. I think it’s fairly well documented the build quality of the ecm is much better than the Bianca. That is the Biancas downfall. I’ve seen issues with drip tray leaking on many. The base is powder coated on the ecm for a reason. For the little bit extra I would think most folks would still choose ecm. Also performance of the ecm is much better so I don’t know why anyone would get the Bianca unless they are sold on the wood accents. Smaller steam boiler by quite a bit. Won’t get same performance.
Hi Marc,
I purchased a Silvia less than a year ago and found myself making milk-based beverages every day (not what I was expecting when I purchased the machine) so I am thinking about upgrading to a dual boiler machine. After viewing your videos, my choice would most likely be the Synchronika.
My question is, based on what’s available on the market for home espresso, is this the type of machine that one most likely wouldn’t feel the need to upgrade from for a long time? I can’t be making these types of purchases every year or two!!
Thank you and happy holidays!
Hi B, Thanks for the question and apologies for a delayed response. IMO the Synchronika is the best available dual boiler machine. So, fairly certain you will not feel the need to upgrade for a very long time - if ever. Next step up from a Synchronika is a very big jump to something like a Dalla Corte Mina at >2x the price: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks a lot Marc!
Great reviews Mark. Can you please tell me if the ECM is powered by 120-240 volt power supply?
Hi Matt, Thanks for the kind comment. The ECM sold in North America runs on standard 120V US power.
Marc
Great vid Marc. Question on my minion specialista I took off top burr cleaned out but just put it back on special way. Do I need to align that top burr to bottom?? Thanks
Hey BP, Thanks for the question. No need to align anything. A nice feature of the Mignon grinders is the ability to remove and replace the top burr with no need for re calibration as the grind size adjustment is done by moving the bottom burr.
Marc
Hi! Your vids are absolutely great. I just got a Synchronika. I have a quick question. Im having a little trouble understanding the PlD temperature control. The brew temperature seems straightforward. How does the steam control work? (I forget which is T1 and which is T2). I cant understand why there is need to adjust steaming temp. Wish you could make a video of how to use the non flow control synchronika. Thanks for the help!!
Hi Ward, Congrats on your new machine - Synchronika is top of the line! Steam temp is T2. Basically you set to get the steaming power you're comfortable with. Personally I go to the max at 272F which should give you about 2 bar of pressure in the boiler. Some prefer less pressure which gives them more time to work the milk before it gets too hot. But if you're good at frothing most go with more pressure is better! And if you missed it I just put up a video on simple methods for using flow control based on coffee roast level and/or age of beans for roast. I use a Synchronika and E37S is in the video: th-cam.com/video/a-QAOo8Vg5A/w-d-xo.html In the description of that video are links to a whole "latte" more ways to use flow control that go beyond the very simple method.
Marc
We bought a Rancilio Sylvia years ago from you guys and it was awesome for 15 years! My husband replaced the pump and it just hasn’t been the same since --can we ship ours into you to restore it?
Hi Sarah, Thanks for your patronage and 15 years of awesome is awesome! We do have a repair dept. But before you go there check out our support wiki for the Silvia. Might be something here which could save the repair: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Rancilio_Silvia/troubleshooting
If you'd like to setup service contact us here for that: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Marc
Can you suggest best entry level coffee grinder/expresso all in one. And easy to clean. And has different option for making coffees, latte and macchiato
WTF!! Where is the lelit bianca V2?! the best with the lowest price!!
WLL does not sell Lelit, one of the few brands mind you that they don't - so it is not reasonable to expect them to include a machine they don't carry.
It’s because the after sales service, WLL only includes machines that they guaranteed
thanks for the tip! in my country most distributors do not carry the flow control version/kit and lelit bianca equipping it by default is a godsend. I also like how lelit designs the flow valve tap to be bigger and easier to handle.
I love my synchronica...pair with a Titan grinding...❤️❤️❤️❤️
I bought a LaSpaziale DREAM espresso machine and, after a few months of problems in year one, the machine has been a champ. Lately, it seams like the water in the tank is getting used up quite quickly. I'm thinking either one of the tanks has been filled with something that limits the complete fill of the tank, or perhaps the temperature of the water 240 degees hjas caused the water or steam to dissipate when I leave the machine in the "on" position. The machine was purchased on the east coast and I don't want to go through the shipping process over and over again just to get it serviced. I'm in Los Angeles. Does Whole Latte Love service this unit, and if not, is there someone in the L.A. area who works on these units?
Hi Marc, I checked with our service department. Unfortunately, they do not carry parts for your machine or service them.
Marc
Great review
Let’s say you had to choose either between an HX Machine without Visual PID with flow control or a machine with dB with PID ?
Hi Aziz, Thanks for the question. Just to be clear you mean an HX machine that has PID but it's hidden? Like on a Profitec Pro 500 or the Rocket Espresso HX machines? I'd go with the DB machine. But if going that far I'd get the flow control on the machine at purchase as it only adds ~5% to total cost. I know some don't care for visible digital displays (like a former Rocket Espresso designer I know) but I don't mind them at all. Most also function as shot timer too.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I mean like on a hx machine that has PID but is hidden, one can't set the exact temperature but it has modes where you can encrease temperature or lover temperature, but not exact. However, tests show that it is extremly acurate for being an hx machine.
Why do I ask this?
It is because I find myself in the dilemma of design over features between 2 machines. The hx machine (with e61) can be upgraded with a flow control peddle if I'd want one in the future.
The DB machine (only e61 size but not e61) on the other hand has the ability of setting exact temperature on both steam and brew boiler. It can also set duration for a desired amount of seconds for pre infusion with steam or blooming or in combination. It is a very clever machine.
Why I don't mention the names is cause you don't sell them and these are good in price where I live.
My question here really is if I would choose the hx machine with a "standard e61 static pre infusion" (not adjustable like on the db), would adding the flow control sort of compensate the lack of pre infusion settings ? I mean that I might able to extract more coffee flavors from my beans so that taste will be more equally great? I think that this feature of the adjustablility of pre infusion is a nice feature (correct me if I am wrong here).
Have you made general comparisons differences in taste of espresso (not milk) when being able to have longer pre infusion? I wonder how much more of flavor / nuances of the coffee one get if your able to set the pre infusion longer?
Also, the ability to be able to set the exact temperature is tempting but not my biggest concern if the HX is very acurate and stable. I think that I would find that feature to be nice in the beginning but in real life I would get tired of that feature cause I don't se myself changing a degree up or down (Celsius) everytime I buy a different roast of coffee. Which coffee roasts (dark or light) are the most difficult for machines that can not set exact temperature for that specific coffee?
Sorry for babbling :)
@@AzizIzgin Clearly, you are referring to the Lelit MaraX vs the Bianca. Just go with the Bianca if you can afford it.
@@Eddian18 that would be a dream although it was between Elizabeth and Mara x and finally I’ve chosen to buy Mara instead cause it has to be pleasing to work with and design wise I love Mara.
Put it this way in future I will add a flow control to it... if it becomes too expensive in total then Bianca would definitely be a better choice but today I can not justify around 800euro more for the machine even if I have the money for it. No happy wife then 😅. I’ve thought about it:)
Excelent video.. I' m from Argentina mi name is Marcelo and I'm interested in buying a Saeco Se50... could you help me with the decission abuot this machine. Thanks
Hi Mark, nice to talk to you again. I purchased a Eureka Mignon Specialita from you last year, and I love it, and you provided very valuable insight during the entire buying process. That said... at this point I'm thinking about upgrading the machine itself (a barista express), but I can't decide between the Profitec 500 (which isn't currently listed on your site though I know you carry profitec)/Izzo Vivi as HX/PID devices and the Rancilio Silvia Pro as a dual boiler/PID device. My brain keeps telling me to go with the Rancilio, but it's just not nearly as stylish, and I don't really need a dual boiler since I don't steam often, and when I do, it's not concurrent with actually brewing the shot.
Are you still able to get the 500? How would you go about choosing between those two types of machines?
Hi g, Nice to talk to you again and thanks for sharing your impressions of the Mignon Specialita. Happy to hear you love it! So the Pro 500 is a very popular machine. Virus upped demand and at same time created supply chain issues. I recently did a review of the Silvia Pro and it's a feature first machine, Not the style of the Pro 500 but it's less $$. One feature on the Sylvia Pro you do not have to turn on the steam boiler if you don't want to. In my testing it had excellent brew temps. It heats up fast and has some other desirable features. Here's that video on the Silvia Pro: th-cam.com/video/zBu4lfoJGSw/w-d-xo.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I'm sure you're right, and I'm sure that I would burn myself half to death with the exposed hot parts on a machine like the Pro 500. That said... there's a reason that I'm not interested in, for example, a Decent machine. There's an element of tradition and history there which the E61-styled machines have and to which the more modern-styled Rancilio doesn't quite add up.
I've can tell I've got some serious thinking to do.
What about lelit Bianca?I did not see you talking about it in any video
Hi AA, It did not make the cut - sorry!
Good luck MR. Mark 🎊👍
Hi seedily, Thanks!
I have a Baratze Encore grinder currently. Will that work for espresso with the Gaggia Classic or what would you recommend instead? Been doing pour over, aeropress, etc. for years and looking to start down the home espresso rabbit hole.
Hi AA, Thanks for the question. The Encore is not a grinder I'd recommend for espresso. But it could get you started. The problem? It's a small conical burr stepped grinder. So it lacks the precision in control of grind size required to dial-in grind accurately. If you start with the Encore you can always up or down the dose weight to compensate for imperfect grind size or use the pressurized filter basket that comes with the Classic in addition to the regular non-pressurized basket until you upgrade grinding capabilities. The other thing with the Encore is ease of use for espresso. You may tire rather quickly of grinding into a bin then dosing a PF from that. So much nicer to grind right into a PF. If you do go deeper into the rabbit hole I suggest avoiding appliance grade grinders and go with a machine grade. So bypass the plastic like Breville Smart grinders and look to something made of metal with better burrs. Some entry-level machine grade grinders to have a look at are the Eureka Mignon Facile: www.wholelattelove.com/products/eureka-mignon-facile-espresso-grinder
And the Bezzera BB005: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bb005-automatic-grinder
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the detailed reply, Marc! Always appreciate the expertise offered here.
I have a slight visual challenge in high contrast helps me see better I’m curious about the display on the ECM top-of-the-line do a bowler anywhere I can get some still pictures of that display
Hi Charles, Probably the best place to see the display is in this full review video of the Synchronika. Link is cued to a closeup of the display: th-cam.com/video/hunFv7E51L8/w-d-xo.html
Hope that helps!
Marc
Hey Mark, thanks for the very informative video. I’ve been using the barista express for 3 years now, I want to upgrade, but I’m torn between the ECM and the Rocket, which one would you recommend? Will there be a noticeable difference if I upgraded to one of these machines. Thanks.
Hi EK, Thanks for the question and you are welcome for the video. You will definitely notice a difference so long as you have a good grinder to feed either machine. IMO (and based on my rating) the ECM is the more capable machine if you go with the flow control version. Otherwise they are equally capable. Flow control allows one to finesse an extraction with things like extra long low flow pre-infusions which make s a huge difference if you are into working with relatively fresh from roast specialty coffees: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
Marc
I just purchased the ECM Synchronika December, it just arrived today (1/6/2021). What a beautiful machine. After about 48 hours (at least) of research, I decided to jump in largely based on the excellent video demonstrations and comparisons . TOO BAD IT LEAKS! What a huge disappointment. I just put water in the reservoir and drip, drip, drip. I pulled off the panels to see where the leak is located, of course, it from a coiled copper wire that is....broken. Nothing to do but start over. I'm hoping WLL will expedite a replacement.
Hi shan, It is a beauty and it must be very disappointing. Have to say something like that is exceedingly rare! IMO the Synchronika is the best built dual boiler available. A little surprising as every ECM machine is tested at the production facility in Milan with full heat-up, etc. I've been to their facility and have seen how they test. Then we setup them up and bench test here before shipping. I'm not exactly sure what piece you are referring to. Any chance your handy enough to replace leaky part if provided? That may not be the right solution but if you've got the skills to remove the part it could save a lot of hassle for return etc. Assuming you've been in-touch with customer service. If not, here's contact info: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
Marc
Hey Shan,
To tag onto Marc's response. I just spoke with our tech support and they got your request and will be reaching out soon, if they haven't already. Hoping to get this resolved for you!
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the follow up. It's a part that will require soldering as it involves a copper wire where it's connected to a part where water passes through. Clearly, from my description I lack the expertise/know how to complete the repair. Your customer service has already initiated a return and the package was picked up today. I'm very much looking forward to getting the replacement Synchronika soon!
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the follow up. As I noted in my reply to Marc, the package was picked up today by UPS, so I'm eagerly awaiting my replacement!!
Som day, I will upgrade to the Gaggia!
Hi t, The Gaggia is a great step up from entry-level espresso appliance products!
Marc
Hi, so basically if i don't plumb the machine but install the flow control kit i can mimic the line level pre infusion? set the knob to 2 bars pressure about like the line level while the pump kick in, and than turn the knob to fully open . am i right ?
Hi, Yes, Using the flow control you can mimic line pressure pre-infusion. It's not so much setting the knob at 2 bar pressure but adjusting to a flow rate that causes the pre-infusion pressure you desire. Depending on the type of pump you have in your machine you probably do not want to fully open the flow control valve. You'll get the stock flow rate of your machine with the FCD open 1.25 turns from fully closed. Fully opening the valve on a machine with a rotary pump can produce flow rates exceeding 25g/s. Stock flow rate on a rotary pump machine is ~11g/s. It's ~8g/s on vibration pump machines. More information on flow rates at various valve postitions in this article: www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/articles/intro-to-calculating-flow-rate-on-e61-group-machines
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks a lot for your answer and all the information you throw on us, you really help me focus on what i need
Hey, where do you line up lenia mini la marzocco in this list ? And what u recommend a machine for using both at home and small business ?
Hi aa, Thanks for the question. IMO the Linea Mini is rather pricey given it's capabilities. The LM name gets a lot of respect but you may be paying more for the name than capabilities. Don't get me wrong they are well built machines but I come across many with similar quality, more capabilities and much lower price. I suggest taking a look at the commercial rated Crem One line of machines. All plumbable and PID, and models like the dual boiler Crem One Infuser offer possibilities beyond the Linea Mini. Check it out in this video: th-cam.com/video/S88TwFdLfns/w-d-xo.html
Current pricing for the machine and more info here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/crem-one-infuser-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Marc
Hi Mark, I have the pro 700 with FCD and I'm really enjoying my shots with it, just out of curiosity ☺️ what would be a great option to upgrade to next level of experience?
upgrade? 😅😂 lol
Marc, I have a barista touch and a gaggia pro. I use miscela D oro crema. Italian roast. Great reviews. When I pull on Breville it’s like blah no so great I even raised temp only ok. When I pull on Gaggia crema like what the name of coffee says I mean a lot. And a very balanced taste at only about 15 grams on the 58 mm. Is this because I really need to dial in more on the breville or is it because Gaggia is an espresso machine and Breville although a higher model in the Breville line up is still an appliance with a 54 mm portafilter. I mean man espresso with Gaggia is banging good. I don’t want to sell my barista but ????
Hi Dirk, Thanks for sharing you experience. Could be a bunch of variables causing the difference. Dialing in specifically for the Breville should help. But other things going on like potentially different dose weights and better thermal stability in the larger group heavyweight PF of the Classic.
Marc
some major value you can bring for viewers/customers in incorporate blind taste test reviews for machine comparisons. another channel did one between 300 and 3,000 machine using a good grinder and she could barely tell the difference. consumers would appreciate real product value input where money spent on a machine actually makes a difference in the product. yeah, spending more does give more features, but the core should be the taste of the product! thanks!
Hi m, Thanks for the suggestion. I totally understand the request. Here's the thing... once you get to a certain level of machine they are all very capable and as the Italians will tell you it's more about the grinder and hand of the barista (skill) than the machine. That said, you are right as you go up in cost you are just getting more features with many of those features focused on controlling variables for more consistency shot to shot. And with that said, there are truly difference making features like flow control of E61 groups. I know without question I can make far superior shots from a fresh from roast, high altitude specialty coffee using flow control than I could on an entry level machine. Always beyond features are additional capabilities.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage good to know, thx!
Marc besides my barista touch I purchased the Gaggia Classic pro the 2018-2019 version. Do I need to mod this to a 9 bar spring or can I just leave it alone. I see people doing this but am
I limiting the machine. Any advice thank you.
Hi Dirk, Thanks for the question. No, you do not need to mod the machine. It's true that if you measure the pressure in static system with no release it will be >9bar. But, when actually brewing pressure is released. Pressure and flow rate is where it needs to be for good extractions.
Marc
Marc,
I can’t get the espresso hot in the cup from my BZ13. The machine is warmed up, The temperature is set to 213. The cup is heated and I run water through group head before pulling a shot. Can I get the espresso hotter through the ECM Synchronika? I’m also considering the Bezzera Duo because of the third temperature gauge. How come you don’t read the temperature of the espresso in the cup?
How about lelit Bianca?
Maybe next year?
What is the best option?
lelit bianca or rocket r58 or ECM Synchronika
please advise
Hi ta, Thanks for the question. IMO the Synchronika is the class of the bunch. Best internals and internal design. The other machines don't even come close to matching the external finishing quality of the Synchronika which is best in the business.
Marc
Get the Bianca. You won’t regret it.
Thoughts on the Breville Barista Express?
Having it for a few years now, It's OK for the price. Lots of features the only big downside is that it doesn't handle light roasts. Best used for medium or italian style roast.
Do you ship to the philippines? Planning on buying an ECM Synchronika in the future. How much would be the shipping fee? A rough estimate would be very much appreciated!
Hi Vince, Sorry, we do not ship to Philippines at this time. I believe there are 2 ECM dealers in the your area. Check here: www.ecm.de/en/dealers/
Marc
Hi Mark, seeing you are selling the Breville range, would the Dual Boiler for $1100 get anywhere near this top5?
Looking at durability, performance and value.
Hi MS, Thanks for the question. Many like the BDB and it ticks a lot of boxes at a low price - so there is value. In this video I stuck with products which I consider true machines. The Breville falls into the appliance category. Lots of plastic, proprietary parts and very low user serviceability. Don't get me wrong, with good maintenance it should provide a decent service life. But down the road internal issues are usually beyond a user's ability to repair and sending out for repair might result in a bill exceeding the products value. The made in Italy machines in my top 5 are far more durable. Little or no plastic with more robust parts and construction. Plus they are very serviceable with simple tools. Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, it does! thanks so much for your elaborate response!
Hi Mark, I bought the The ECM Technika single boiler IV in Dec 2014 from you. Where do I go from here as a good upgrade? Although just used for 2 cappuccinos per day and more on Holidays, need more powerful steam and temperature control. Don't need Flow control. Just consistent manual quality and a noticeable upgrade from my current machine. La Marzocco Mini looks good but very expensive and needs more maintenance Many thanks, Tony Orlando Fl
Hi Mr. T, Thanks for the question and your patronage! Unless I'm missing something the Technika is a heat-exchange boiler machine so a little more capable than a true single boiler machine. For better temperature control PID is the way to go. If you want to go to super steam power the Pro 700 or ECM Synchronika Dual boilers are best in class with ~2bar steam pressure. If you interested both of those machines are rotary pump and plumbable to waterline. For a little less $$ you could go with the Profitec Pro 600. It's a dual boiler as well with the same best in class steaming power but uses a vibration pump and is not plumbable. Nice thing with the dual boiler is you can set the steam temp for the presssure you like and not affect the brew temp as you would on machine with heat-exchange boiler. FYI ECM and Profitec are made by the same company in same factory in Milan. Here the Pro 600: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc, I guess my question should have been what dual boiler machine is worth the upgrade in terms of making better espresso more consistently and froth milk faster? I don't mind paying more for the better machine. I think I noticed my heat exchanger ECM machine degrade over the years or I just need a more powerful , better model. Thx, Tony
Hi Marc. I’ve read some forum reviews that the synchronica and pro 700 have brew boilers that can only pull 2 shots before you have to wait for it to reheat. Have a hard time believing that to be true but wanted to check with you on that.
Hi Mike, Thanks for the question. Those reviews are flat out wrong. I've used the Synchronika and Pro 700 a lot! Under the hood they are essentially identical machines. Brew boiler is 25oz and quickly recovers - definitely well before one could prep the next shot!
Marc
Hi, great overview. Im planning to buy an espresso machine, but i cant decide between an E61 Rocket appartamento and the Bezsera strega lever machine. I do see a lot of E61 machines in this video, but why you chose to put the E61's and not a Lever machine in this best category?
Hi Afzel, Thanks for the question. Sorry we did not include a lever inn our top 5. Lever machines can make some excellently sweet and syrupy shots! But, they are a bit more of a niche product these days. I do have a review of the Bezzera Strega here:th-cam.com/video/MXlzUW_bfII/w-d-xo.html
Gotta say the Appartamento and Strega are two very different machines!
Marc
Thanks! Ill check it out
Which machine would be best for beginner/entry level business use?
Hi Mark. Just wondering your thought between the Rocket Mozzafiato Cronometro Type V now has the shot timer vs profitec pro500 with its stainless steel boiler and huge power.
Hi! I’m looking for no-plastic parts where the hot water is. Can you recommend which mashing doesn’t have plastic parts? Thanks in advance! 👍
Hi Nina, Thanks for the question. The vast majority of machines do not use plastic after water is heated.
Marc
Just curious, you mention the BZ13 as a best buy, but in other videos you mention the Profitec 500 PID. Which is better functionally and as far as repairs? Very interested in one of them.
Hi Jeff, Thanks for the question. The BZ13 is similar to the Pro 500 as an HX boiler machine with PID but at a lower price point than the Pro 500. There are some major differences however. The Pro 500 uses an E61 group which heats via thermosiphon. BZ13 uses an electrically heated BZ group. Profitec is known for build quality but there's nothing wrong with the BZ13. It's slightly more complex with electronic dosing and the heated group but that does not have a major impact in reliability IMO. Pro 500 is a very popular machine and is tough to get at the moment due to increased demand and lower production volume due to Covid. We expect a new supply of Pro 500's in mid march.
Marc
Out of interest, is there a reason the Bianca didn't make the list? I'm considering both the Bianca and synchronica, but was leaning toward the Bianca as it seemed to have a few more features at a lower price point, although maybe without quite as nice a finish.
WLL never considers the Bianca because they don’t sell it. I own one and believe it’s hands down the best value in espresso. Highly recommend. 👍
How about the ELba 2 Lux? And Orchestrale Nota single group? I would like to see a video review of the two hopefully... thank you so much
Hi EC, If I had those machines available I would most definitely do a review.
Marc
Is he gonna announce the Billboard top 40 after this?
Hi Ryan, I'm waiting for their call!
Marc
How do you rate the Breville BES870XL Barista Express Espresso Machine compared to Gaggia Classic Pro. I'm a novice here so is it worth paying so much more or at least start with the Gaggia as a beginner? I understand you can mod the Breville so that might be worth it in the long run???
Hi Grant, To me the difference is the Classic is a machine and the Breviille is an appliance. Metal vs. plastic, serviceable under the hood vs. proprietary components and more plastic, commercial size and weight PF vs undersized lightweight pf, real boiler vs. thermoblock. In terms of "long run", the Classic can easily go for years/decades and parts are cheap and easy to get. If the Breville bites the dust it's likely going in the garbage as a repair will cost more than its value.
Marc
dude!! im in love with the bezzera bz13 de espresso machine. what would u say the difference are between. the de and the pm. also when are you going to get them back in stock
I just received mine. I bought the DE and had I to do it over again, I would get the pm with the rosewood. The black is nice looking in video, but it's the only plastic on the machine, and feels a little out of place on what is otherwise a beautiful machined piece of steel. The programmable buttons don't seem to work well on the DE. I get wildly different shot weights with the same coffee, grinder, and settings after programming a button. It's certainly not volume controlled.
Without writing a whole review, the espresso making functions and the steam wand are great, the programmable buttons less so. I also had to pay for it two months before it came in stock. A bit of buyer beware, WLL is really giving me the run around on even basic tech support. Every time I call and ask someone for help they tell me something different. All promise to call back or have someone call me, it has yet to happen, and I've been calling since Sunday, Nov 15th. They were super nice during the order, but now that I need help after the sale, I've had nothing but the run around.
Hi H, Thanks for the question. PM is manual with no timed functions. DE does timed dosing so stops automatically but has a manual start stop as well. PM's are in stock more DE's expected end of December.
Hi Jacob, Thanks for offering your opinion on the BZ13.
I'm not directly involved in our phone support but I did reach out to the manager. Sounds like your problem (grinder issue) was resolved and all is well. If not please respond to me in an original comment and I will follow up.
Marc
ISO high performance for high altitudes.
5280 ft elevation where I live. which is the best fully aromatic espresso for high altitude locations?
15 bars or 18 or 19 bars of pressure best? Today I’m considering the Gaggia Babila. Thank you
Hi d, Thanks for the question. I responded to another comment of your in regards to high altitude operation. All super-auto machines operate with about the same brew pressure so you'll have little difference in performance. Brew pressure ratings on various machines are more marketing than real world. They most often just state what the maximum pressure the pump is capable of which has little to do with what's going on when brewing.
Marc
hey mark I have a question I was looking at the following machines profitec pro 300, bezzera bz13 de and the profitec pro 500 pid with flow control. I know those are all over the ball park in price. but I want to do it right and once. my needs are as fallows brewing predominately for my self and occasionally for my family. 60% of the time im brewing espresso and ristretto and the other 40% cappuccinos. also I roast my own coffee don't know of that factors in but I thought id include it. what would you recommend. I know the 500 is like 1k more than the 300 so is the upgrade in flow control worth it. I know good pid is in portent because tempture greatly affects the taste of coffee or at least that's how I under stand how it works.
Hi Happy, Thanks for the question and sharing your needs. It makes advising so much easier! Any of those machines will provide consistent brew temps as they are all PID. As you roast your own coffee the flow control could help a lot! I use its all the time to tame brightness that's common in coffees the first couple weeks after roasting. A long low flow pre-infusion allows the CO2 to off-gas reducing brightness/acidity. At the moment, we are out of stock of Pro 500 due to high-demand and reduced production in Italy with Covid shutdowns. The ECM Classika is available with flow control but it's a single boiler machine so milk drinks are more of a process. Next machine available with flow is the dual boiler PID Profitec Pro 600: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Pro 600 has the same best in class steaming power as the Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. As a dual boiler you'll have independent control of brew temp and steam power. Some users prefer a little less steam power initially until they get their technique down. Hope that helps!
Marc
What about the La Marzocco GS3 or Linea Mini and the king Slayer single group (cost 3 times more than all this machines combined 🤔
Hi DS, Thanks for the comment. As mentioned those machines cost a heck of a lot more than the top dual boiler in this video. We madfe a conscious decision to not include saturated group machines in this top 5. The LM GS3 is a fine machine but I'd go with a Dalla Corte Mina which gives LM Strada capabilities at half the price. The Linea Mini is overpriced IMO - paying a lot for the LM name on that one and The Slayer is very expensive and limited to straight Slayer style shots. If you have the $$ the DC Mina is the best of the bunch: www.wholelattelove.com/products/dalla-corte-mina-110v
Marc
I'm in the market for a new espresso machine. I have currently a Mr. Coffee machine, the basic one. I have had my eye on the Mr. Coffee cafe barista for a while now.
Then I started looking at the Mr. Coffee one touch version. I was all set on getting it. As I was still looking at options I came across the Espresso works machine, which has caught my eye. I like those because they are not super costly, and automatic milk frother. I'm slightly questioning the quality of milk froth automatic frothers provide.
I kind of want to find a version that has a manuel frother in my mind I think manuel ones will give a richer froth. I need help, what are your choices and thoughts on the Machines I mentioned. Also feel free to suggest others.
Hey Professor X, Thanks for the question. My honest thoughts... The type of "espresso makers" you are looking at are what I call espresso appliances. Compared to the machines in this video they use thermoblock boilers which are not great at temperature stability. The Mr. Coffee uses a lightweight pressurized filter basket. That's what you want if you will not be grinding coffee fresh and using pre-ground. Just understand that pressurized brewing with pre-ground produces inferior espresso compared to fresh ground in standard non-pressurized filter baskets. You are right about the froth. It's lower quality out of the automatic milk frothers. Typically one density that's usually on the airier cappuccino style. You will not get the extra-fine latte art quality froth from these. That said, manual frothing takes some skill but once you master the technique you can have your froth any density or temperature you like - just takes some effort. If you are just getting into home espresso the appliance grade products can get you going. For some they may produce what they want. Others will find them limiting. Machine grade products are capable of much better drinks with higher quality espresso and milk froth. If you think you'll be doing espresso for a long time or going deeper into espresso then I highly recommend taking a look at the Gaggia Classic Pro. It's a true machine with commercial size/weight portafilter, real boiler, 3-way solenoid valve for dry coffee pucks, manual steam wand for better froth. It comes out of the box with pressurized and non-pressurized filter baskets. So you can start without a grinder and use pre-ground and down the road use fresh ground to up your espresso quality. The GCP can go for decades with proper maintenance. Should something go wrong they are very easy for most home users to repair, parts are cheap and readily available. When something goes wrong with an appliance grade product they usually end up in the garbage. Machines are a bigger upfront investment but pay off with better drinks and longevity. And should you decide you don't lime espresso anymore used machines retain value, are in high demand so sell quickly. Hope that helps!
Marc
I have a $3000 budget and want to get a home espresso machine that will get used at least once a day. I do care about design and build quality. I will have it plumed in. Rocket has caught my eye but is the design and branding impacting me too much? any updates for 2121?
Hi Tristan, Thanks for the question. IMO Profitec/ECM are top in build quality internally and best finishing on the outside. The Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika are essentially the same machine under the hood. Both are aseembled in the same facility near Milan, Italy. The Pro 700 w/flow control is in your budget: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-700-dual-boiler-with-flow-control
The Synchronika improves a little on the exterior finishing with things like lever operated steam/water valves, a subtle taper to the E61 group and angled portafilters. Stnadard Synchronika is right at your budget: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
For a little more you can go with flow control.
Hope that helps!
Marc
Could u comment on quality between Bezzera and Crem
They both look like “top of class”
Hey Matthew, Thanks for the question. Excellent quality in both. Bezzera is one of the oldest Italian manufacturers of espresso machines. Been doing it for more than a century. They also make more of their own components in-house than just about any other manufacturer. I've been to their production facility. If interested here's some video from their factory which includes more on their history and behind the scenes of manufacturing: th-cam.com/video/KY14ND7_Exs/w-d-xo.html
Crem which is more widely know for their Expobar machines has headquarters in Spain. We've been working with them for nearly 2 decades. For many years the Expobar machines were IMO the best values on a price performance basis. Very well made with tank like construction. Perhaps not the prettiest machines lacking some finishing details which do not affect capabilities. Recently Crem was acquired by the US based company Welbilt. They specialize in commercial food service products. With the acquisition a decision was made to only offer Crem products in North America which have certification for commercial use. With that, the Expobar brand was no longer offered in North America. Crem's "One" line of machines became available in North America a few weeks ago. Unlike Expobar they have commercial use ratings. They offer a much richer feature set than previous Expobar machines while retaining some legacy features that made Expobar special like a custom pre-infusion chamber above the shower screen of E61 groups and dual boiler machines which have the brew boiler water pre-heated by a heat-exchanger in the service boiler.
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Man
Any ideas on show rooms near us in denver?
I like ecm and saw they manufacture in italy somewhat of a twist
Seems they all do pid single b’s
Well
We prob are a ways out from purchase
Again
So much love for you guys
It is very clear you put your heart and soul into this, “its not a job its a passion”