How the U.S. got shafted out of the FN FAL
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2017
- The FN FAL is one of the greatest battle rifles ever made. Politics caused the U.S. to pass on it while nearly every other NATO country in the world recognized its superiority. And the 7.62 NATO is one of the greatest battle rounds ever made. But we needed an intermediate round. Here's the story.
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A better title would be "how the US shafted itself out of the FAL"
Trust me, I think if you asked our soldiers and anybody who had to use these weapons... they would’ve chosen the fal. It was Adler.
@@mattmann8006 I used a SLR. We had a few M16s. Then we replaced the SLR with a Austeyr. FN FaL/SLR 7.62 NATO great weapon. Anything in 5.56 phht.
I think the 280 woulda been a good midway solution.
But the worst result is not covered here.
EM2. Here itd be 1951 EM2 adopted. 70 yrs of bullpup opportunity to develop and we'd probably have had better cheaper pressed weapons
@@ozdavemcgee2079 Sadly the ordnance dept are FINALLY after 60 years are getting their heads out of their asses and are looking at a 6.5 mm-6.8 MM Caliber Range. If we had adopted the 276. Pederson in the M-1 in the 1930's We would have been set. We would have had to just update the rifle
“How ordinance corps swindled the Army”
I'd say the .280 British was still too big for what should have been the NATO intermediate cartridge. But that's because US requested they make it stronger than what they were initially going for. The original .280/30 was just about right.
I'd still prefer her lighter sister the .270 which is similar to 7.62x39 (it's 7.2x43). Preferably modified for even smaller diameter in .243~.260 range (6.2~6.7). But such cartridge didn't exist. So, .270 it is.
Had an intermediate cartridge been selected then, we might have put as much development in it as we do the 5.56. By now they would have many different kinds of cartridge like 5.56 has their M855A1, Mk318, Mk262.
FN FAL is too heavy for maneuvering through the bushes
Rodhesians: *you are doing it wrong*
FAL ♥
And you are spelling Rhodesians wrong......ly.
@@Zacharia503 not me, zimbabwe did it 😌
Yes, weight is an issue, but I toted the M1 Garand, 9.5 lbs for four years, and some times you have to go with what you've got.
Later FALs/G3s were produced with shorter barrels and stocks + switched wood for polymer.
Nice to hear an American defend and respect my small country 👍🇧🇪
One of the smallest countries invented the best battle rifle in history that rifle has killed more people than the black plaque and has lasted about as long respects to your country from another American
We all love the fal
You joking as a Texan I will take a German/ Belgium made gun any day over some of the stuff made here in the US.
Your small shitty country, after all, Belgium doesn't have many things you could possibly be proud of lol.
@@charlesferdinand422 Lol. Fal, Browning. Minimi and minima etc
I was still in the Canadian Armed Forces when they had the FN FAL (Canadian designation C1A1).
I distinctly remember our instructor telling us to "enjoy this weapon...the ghost of John Moses Browning is all through it... and you guys are getting the best military rifle in the world".
I never knew what meant until years later when I read about Dieudonné Saive and his involvement with Mr. Browning.
Fascinating stuff.
I remember using it in the Reserves. Great weapon, but jammed frequently when using blank rounds.
"I distinctly remember our instructor telling us to "enjoy this weapon" Yeahhhhhh!
Carried it a few years, C7 seemed like a toy compared to it. 🙄
Brits has very similar modifications of FAL just like yours (L1A1) my dad used it when he was in 10 PARA. Thanks for your service btw
My favorite J M Browning designed gun is the Remington Model 8 in .35 Rem.
Used this rifle, the British version, in the Jamaican military. We knew it as the Self loading Rifle SLR.
@Scott Logan Absolutely!!!! Soldiers respect it, the enemy fear it.😁
Respect breddah. My dad was Quartermaster 1JR in the 60’s.
Terrorists, insurgents, rebels and communists backed AK wielding armies hated troops carrying FN FAL. Shame they didn't leave it in 280 though.
L1A1
I used the SLR in my time in the British Army... was a great piece of kit indeed.
In the British Army, we called it the SLR and I loved it!! Yes, it was heavy, but with that kind of firepower, the extra weight was worth it!
40 years later, I can still hear and feel it! 😊
I can also still feel the weight, texture and feel in my hands, the recoil, the smell, the power. It would be as natural today in my 60s to hold that rifle as when I was 19.
I never understood why it wasn't kept for extra flexibility in forces
@@yallaimshi8091 Me too! Served in the Royal Anglian Regt and RCT.
It wasn't actually that heavy compared to the SA80. The main thing was you could spread the weight across the forearms on a battle march (plus the weight acted as a counter-weight if you did a speed march). Also, the recoil was cancelled out at rapid fire. All in all, the SLR was a very good rifle...but it was way too long to fit into a PIG!
Love to the M14 because I’m an American and it’s similarities to the great M1. But the FAL was called the right arm of the free world for a reason.
@GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS I don’t see how that has anything to do with what Courtland Miller is saying
The M14 is a target rifle, the FAL is a shooting people in the face rifle.
@@realtalk4real243 Yes Just like the Metric which is widely used just cause its better unit of measurements. FN FAL is widely used cause it was better than most Rifle at that time.
@@realtalk4real243 Yes. And there's a very good reason it was widely used and the M14 wasn't. It's because the FAL is a much better rifle.
Did Stutler have anything to do with screwing up the M16 program?
I will stand with you in regard to the FN FAL as a superior weapon. It was a disappointment to see and use the M-14 in the humid to wet climate of Vietnam which would swell the wood stock to a point the weapon ceased to function, a composite stock would have been far better in that place but it was not to happen. Again, the FN FAL was the "boat" we missed on that "ocean"!
It is a superior Rifle. Adjustable Gas, Super Reliable, super fast and simple to field strip. A more advanced rifle in all ways.
Just a thought.. I wonder if the USA had gone with the FAL if the M16 / AR15 would have ever been a U.S. Service Rifle? Presuming they liked the FAL then they my have selected their next rifle from FN as well such as the FNC. (Another very good rifle.)
And to further prove your point sir, the Rhodesian Army used it to great effect in a somewhat similar combat environment. Its not far fetched to think that U.S. troops on the ground woudlve modified it and get that powerful automatic firepower often needed in the jungle
@@F4Insight-uq6ntThey might've had a different design, but I imagine a gun similar to the Armalite would eventually replace the FAL. Don't get me wrong, the FAL is one of my favorite guns, but not everyone can handle her weight and recoil. Plus there's the problem of making it modular, which is the AR's biggest strength nowadays.
Never trust a guy named Rene
Used one of these in the Falklands, the SLR (self loading rifle )it was a great weapon and handled that 7.62 round easily, Royal Marines Commando, ret.
Both sides.
Did you serve during the Falklands War?
@@sartainja me? No, were you there?
Pretty sure he was talking to the original commenter.
The Brits used the semi-auto version while the Argentinians used the full auto version, if I remember correctly. The interresting with that was that the Argentinians would blow through ammo like nobody's business and the Brits would be forced to make their shots count, but kept their ammo reserves for much longer.
Using semi-auto ended up being a massive benefit for the Brits.
Belgium: Hey look we have this very cool rifle that fires intermediate cartridge
US: F**k no you'll use the .308
Belgium: >chambers the rifle into .308
US: >adopts the M14 instead
also US: >eventually developes the 5.56x45mm NATO and the M16
Belgium: *am I a joke to you?*
Although in the end, FN's (aka Belgium's) SS109 5.56 round did become the NATO standard, so all is well.
The 5.56×45mm NATO (official NATO nomenclature 5.56 NATO) is a rimless bottlenecked intermediate cartridge family developed in the late 1970s in Belgium by FN Herstal. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO
@GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS AR is a newer system and was widely adopted by the US for many years by the military as the M4/M16. While agree with you your comparing a stock 70s mustang vs. a Tesla sport in going 0-60.
Do you think the PKM should have been chambered in 7.62x39?
^^ That's why the US wanted 7.62x51
There's more to war than your personal rifle.
That's also why the US _never_ adopted an _"Intermediate"_ cartridge, and why the 7.62x39 is gone.
The 5.56 _did_ replace the .30 carbine... because it's essentially a .30 carbine in energy/recoil/etc with much more range.
Which is actually .223 cal smaller than .280 British
@@-John-Doe- you say that, but the whole reason they are switching to 6.8 SPC is more lethal power and more range with a negligible increase in recoil.
If your unaware of the upcoming change next trial is supposedly happening in feb 2022.
I have a brother who went to Vietnam (Australian) equipped with the SLR. The troops did not realise how much they loved it until it was taken away and replace with the 'Armalite'. Sure it was light, but it was also insubstantial and very prone to jams.
The best thing about this rifle is its name. It's a big FN gun!
It aint no CQB gun, but it sure would rock the battle field in the open....
After modernizing mine and putting a scope on it, its coming to 11 pounds. After feeling how heavy it is, it makes sense why we went with 5.56.
@@FalovkaVista
If you Yanks hadn't been so pig headed the M16 wouldn't have been needed...an FAL in 280 would have been far superior and more reliable.
@@charlesharper2357 I still think the M16 would've replaced the FAL in .280. But I don't disagree the .280 was more practical and better performing than the .308.
@@FalovkaVista
Then why is the US military looking at moving up to a larger caliber?
I did National Service in South Africa in the 70 's. We used the FN and our own version the R1. During training we had no idea that it was a 'heavy' rifle. Once we went to the operational area we did a day long 'foreign' weapons familiarization course where we handled and fired AK's PPSH s SKS's G3's Garands and all sorts. Only then did we realize the FN was a 'heavy' rifle !. LOL
same here basic with a r1 then to an r3 then to an R4
It was blood-sweat with that thing back in '84. Very reliable though. You get the enemy behind the tree....
I'm 1.60m tall & when I served in the Mexican Army I weighted barely above 60Kg. I barely made it for satisfactory height, & had to have outstanding qualifications in order to make it through boot camp. The FN FAL wasn't heavy in my hands, it was above that. But if you ask me what rifle would I choose... :)
I had a similar experience with the M16. The A-1's by the time I joined the U.S. Army in 1987 were all really showing their age. I actually fired an M16A2 in 87 for 2 weeks of basic rifle marksmanship and they were taken away from us once we qualified. We finished the Infantry School with old rattling M16A1's. I really loved the M16A2...........it could shoot accurately out to 500 meters and was robust. Carried the M16A2 in Panama, Desert Storm and in to the late 90's. I used the M4 from 99 until I retired in 2008.
John Jones I was 17 years old when I was first introduced to the FNin Canada I spent six years with her and she’s a formidable weapon especially the fact that you can shoot up to 600 yards there’s many different versions of her with different characteristics and she was easy to field strip and clean it’s always been my favourite
Manufactured in South Africa as the R1, a great rifle, in fact a good friend of mine who served in the Recces refused to use the later R4 and R5 weapons in favour of the R1, he called it his hunting rifle.
My liefie wat saam met my geslaap het! Wens ek kan een in die hande kry wat nie steelbaar is deur die politieke booswigte nie..
@@Kingsfrie It's been over 40 years since I handed in my Rhodesian FN. Still sometimes when I wake up in the morning I think for a minute that it's stored in my wardrobe, and it's a cosy, comfortable feeling.
I used a G3 for 6 months in Rhodesia and found it was a very good rifle, which I became very proficient with. Then I had a month break and when I returned they issued me an FN.
At first I found it long and cumbersome with an awkward foregrip. But after 5 or 6 weeks of intensive practice it was like a bionic implant, a natural extension of my arm. Just like you don't need to aim down your arm and finger to point at something, I only had to glance at a figure 50 yards away and I would hit it in the same instant without conscious thought. At 100 yards I needed an extra quarter of a second to focus in order to hit it first time.
In the next 15 years I carried an M-16, AK-47, Galil and R4 but I believe they were all inferior to a G3 and not even in the same league as my beautiful FN.
Ex British Military Armourer and the SLR would always be my first choice of weapon I've come across, top bit of kit.
I would say the magazine release you have on the DSA is more like the hammer of the WWII era Browning Hi-Power. The Colt Commander that used a spurred ball hammer didn't come about until the 1950's when Colt submitted a pistol to the US Army trials to replace the 1911 post WWII. As we all now know, the pistol we've come to know as the "Combat Commander" wasn't adopted by the U.S. Army, nor was anything else, until 1985. Anyway, not all FAL's have that type of magazine release. Many of the Belgium made rifles have a simple lever contoured like a thumb that's serrated. Thanks for a fun video! I love the FAL's. It's easily still the best .308 ever made by any company for military use.
Military Arms Channel thanks man. Love your videos on the FAL. And the knowledge you have of them.
Actually your mag release isn't what FN put on them at all. That is a modification the Israelis made, and is my preferred mag release for the thumb "grippiness" you mention, but rounded to prevent it from catching on things. However, the Brits had an even easier one that can be activated with a finger or thumb from outside the trigger guard . FN's was a flat piece, about 3/16" wide, cut on an angle with similar grooves. It works, but for most it is the least preferred from a ergo standpoint. As for reasons we didn't get the FAL... I'd add we have differing priorities from other countries, be it good or bad. AKs and FALs aren't known for their extreme accuracy by any measure. If you get your hands on a 2moa FAL you have a rare jewel. The lockup just doesn't lend itself to accuracy. We Americans seem to lean to accuracy as a priority. The M-14 is FAR more capable, from that standpoint, than the FAL. I would call the FAL a little more durable, but not by much. The trend continued into the next gen, the M-16. Again, highly accurate, not as diehard as an AK. Also, don't forget the Germans used the FAL for a while. You are correct in that they got pissy when Belgium told them to GFY when Germany wanted to build their own, for the reasons you mention, but they Used the G1 before moving to the Cetme/G3/HK91.
Military Arms Channel agreed kinda lol
Phil Meup have you ever had either?
you are forgetting the ar-10
Carried my FAL (we called it the L1A1 7.62 SLR in the UK military) for the first 12 years of my military service and I loved and respected it. I neither loved or respected the 5.56 SA80 that replaced it.
Have they fixed the SA. What would you change?
In the first Gulf war the orginal SA80 failed miserably. The magazine catch was unreliable so the mag could actually drop out (not good when you are under fire). The bolt was shit, the gas plug was shit, the mags were frail and shit and the whole thing was mistrusted. Then in 2000 Heckler and Koch (owned by BAE Systems) took hold of the thing, redesigned all of the above faults and worked on it's internals and made what is now a very accurate and reliable weapon. The only problem (for me) is the 5.56 calibre. I would go for the heavier hitting 7.62 any day.
Interesting. If memory serves, the British experiments with the .19 cal lead to the faster twist ARs we use here today. A major improvement to the 5.56. Took 50 yrs to make an AR what it is today. I guess Americans and Brits will eventually fix their shit. But, don't hold your breath.
I don't know why people are so hung up on 308. Have you ever tried carrying a combat load of 30 caliber? It sucks. One reason I really don't like the AK even though it is reliable and effective. 5.56 on the other hand is a pleasure to shoot. Not only is it super light weight, but because you can carry a lot of it you don't feel bad for using seeking/suppressible fire methods when you need to use it. The stopping power of a cartridge really doesn't matter as much as ease of application. Most rounds aside from home defense, LE, or very well planned offensive roles are not going to be hitting the target because it takes rounds to get into a position where you can hit the target.
skyfix The sa80 is now fixed but it cost millions.
I spoke to two veterans who used the FN FAL in service. A British veteran of the Falklands War who used the L1A1 and an Australian veteran who used the SLR. They both said they loved it. 👍🇬🇧🇦🇺
The Aussies had it Vietnam. When I served late 80's to early 90s the rifles I used were made in the 60s...very solid weapon...
My uncle was in the Australian Commandoes when he went to Vietnam, it was so early in the War he was using SMLEs when he arrived and was one of the first to be issued the L1A1 in theatre. absolutely loved it!
@@adriaandeleeuw8339 the SLR was first issued in the Australian Army in 1957. Australian Advisers first deployed to Vietnam and none took SMLEs, They mostly were armed with US Army weapons. In 1965 when the first Regular Australian troops deployed to Vietnam they were mostly armed with SLRs (the Australian version of the FAL). No Australian troops were armed with SMLEs during the Vietnam conflict. The Commandoes at that time were an Army Reserve Unit. They did not deploy. Squadrons of the Special Air Service did deploy and one of their favourite weapons was the L2A1(the fully automatic version of the L1A1 SLR).
I used one in the late 80s that was made in 1956, I then moved to GPMG but I still have fond memories of that wooden stocked rifle
Back in the late 1980s when I served, we used the SLR when training although our personal weapon was a Sterling SMG. Despite the weight, it is a heavy beast to lug around for days, it proved so very, very reliable.
@@adriaandeleeuw8339 think you’re mistaken. The Aussies never deployed commandos to Vietnam. Also the SMLE was phased out of service in the 1950s - well before Vietnam.
We were issued FN FAL, designated R1 Battle Rifle, during my service in the SADF 1976- 1989. I slept, ate and lived with that rifle 24-7, always loved it.
Yes bro, what a time it was. Rhodies never die and neither do our Southern brothers.
I was in I think the last bunch to do basic training in the SADF with the R1. Was issued an IMI Galil before being shipped to the Border (Medics got the Galil or South African made R5 and not the R4 which was issued to the infantry). Locally made 5.56mm round was terrible, on fully auto the firing cap would come adrift from the round and jam the weapon. Never got to fire more than 3 rounds in a burst - it might also be due to the fact that there was a shortage of rounds for the infantry so we were issued tracer rounds - used to borrow a 9mm pistol or R1 whenever I needed to be armed, would never trust the ammo for the Galil.
Ex Australian Army. I loved it. Thanks for the memories 👌
The most effective Rifle in the Vietnam War. South Korean, Australian, Thai, and South Vietnamese Units attached to them LOVED the FAL/SLR.
Old school. 1 RAR
Ex British army , loved it too , never jammed and mine was very accurate
Ex British Army too. Marksman. Had 2 issued: the plastic butt and stock, and the walnut version. Loved them both, but especially the walnut version, and never experienced any problems with either. Accurate and always achieved good groupings on the range, no matter what the weather conditions were.
This rifle killed rather than simply injured it's opponents. It had the power to shoot through 18" of timber or could demolish a single brick thickness wall. The Belgian FN or SLR as it was known in the British Army was just awesome.
james miller but there is also something to be said about having improved sustained fire ability and being able to carry more ammo into combat with a smaller caliber.
The larger the round, the more of a strong Marksman you need to be to use it effectively, and it seems that intermediate rounds are suitable for most people.
British and Belgian SAS use the FAL. I had 2 in the army , but in 7,62-54. Not the 308.
GuyBodart the FAL is designed for 7.62 NATO. Running 308 in it can damage the action thanks to the longer case length of the .308, or so I read
@@engineerskalinera I know about the 7,62-51. But my sniper one used the 7,62-54. I am a former Belgian SAS, we used the ones made in the FN-Herstal-Liege-Belgium.
GuyBodart I can't say I've ever heard of a FAL in 7.62x64mmR. Care to elaborate?
.280 FAL, that would have been awesome.
Or 6mm SAW
I agree. Just wondering how easy it is to scope.
@@johnschneider6183 british version you changed the top cover to one that took mounts for S.U.I.T scope but rattled
Yes, Thankyou. I saw how that was do watching Jerry Miculek shoot the FN FAL. But thanks for the reply. @@FGYT1
A short 6.5 mm similar to a short .260 rem would be really nice too.
I used the SLR version in my military service in the Royal Marines.. loved the weapon. Used in conflict. Targets will fall when hit. The power behind the round meant that any wound caused was going to be devastating. Thank you for the video...
Yes I concur Im an EX Bootneck and the SLR was totally reliable , simple , tough , and immense power only down side a little heavy and dated. We should have updated the SLR into a new version and binned the terrible SA 80 , thank god I only used It for a few months before I left the Corps.
@@MrJazzflute I took the dreaded SA 80 with me to the first gulf war , and my L42. 1990/91. I left the Corps 1994. 25 years service.
@@MJMgreen0303 I was in the mob 83 to 90 left got fed up being pinged for chef, signaller , clerk just loved graving it, was going SC 3 at one stage done my knee in playing football so that was it. Loved the old SLR bang stick , Per Mare Per Terram brother.
I was a D2 Cpl, an LC 2 Cpl, Attached to 5 SBS Comacchio Company, parachute accident back in 1974 came back to haunt me, so ended my days as a SA 1 Sgt. Still enjoyed life and had fun...... Once a Royal Marine always A Royal Marine........ 28th October 1664....... Stay safe Brother
As a former Canadian Forces M/Cpl I loved the FN C1. There are a few differences in removable trigger guard and magazine release was bigger in our version. When we replaced it with the Matell reject ie the M16 I got out along with several others. Very good video thank you
Used that rifle in the 80's during military service in Belgium.
Omg, I still get goose bumps when I think of it. Nostalgia !!
Stay Safe..
Ed.
I had a FN Paratrooper model and it was outstanding. I love the FN Fal, its easy to take apart and clean and it is very accurate. Our armed forces are still using it .
I have a Paratrooper model imported by gun south in 1990-91 Just shot a group last week 1/2 inch high and 1 1/2 wide at 100 yards With A SUIT
Excellent video! One small point - you did have guys on your side in Vietnam with this rifle - the Aussies and Kiwis and they did some crazy stuff with them!
Mazer Rackham thanks for the feedback, sir!
Mazer Rackham the sas would get their armourer to shorten and make a full auto version of the SLR for the scout to use. The yanks would try and get one of them.
WE in the Australian Army especially the Infantry loved the SLR and were more than happy to carry it all day long, in all terrains including jungle. A beautiful powerful effective battle rifle!
What works is worth the effort.
He's your Australian I'm Shure your a great guy and all but why has your government been being an asshole it's fucked up to take away anyone's ability to defend themselves and resist a tyrannical government can you give me your input
Benjamin Webster Stop trying to get political with us, dickhead.
Gazza Rover so true
Benjamin Webster where are you from? So I can give you my input.
The choice rifle of the Rhodesian Light Infantry!
Rhodesians never die!
Here in Australia we went with the FN FAL in 7.62 and I carried one in Vietnam from 1968 to 1971. It was manufactured under license here at Lithgow Arms and it had a slightly slower cycling rate to make it even more reliable than it was already. It was a wonderful rifle, if a tad long. In all that time it never jammed. Cleaned and with a cool barrel it was a 1 MOA rifle. The sights were very fast to acquire. Our equivalent of the US Marines SOG, unofficially chose the AK, simply because they could steal ammo from the Viet Cong on long patrols and the 7.62 was 2.5 times the man stopper the 5.56 was not.
Hi, good video! You came across like the “old time weapons instructor” who knows his stuff. I was a “soldier of The Queen” for 20 years; during those years we only had 18 months where the army was not on active service. I started my first two years soldiering on the Mk4 SMLE and learned to count my rounds and shoot with the rifle in the aim position throughout. We used the FN SLR in all conditions from the deserts, mountains, plains and jungles of Asia and Americas. The rifle was excellent and there was no point for the enemy hiding behind trees as we often shot them right through the tree. Cover from sight is not cover from fire, you are spot on about the sand as we had problems in Muscat and Yemen with sand and had to keep the “mouse” oil free otherwise the rifle would seize. The full auto. FN overheated too quickly and seized up after a few rounds. The sustained fire FN with the bi-pod was useless as well, the Argentinians found that out in the Falklands. For those soldiers trained on the SMLE the SLR was a huge improvement, for those who came in later we had to keep an eye on them as they had a tendency to go through too much ammunition. A hairy ass Para can only carry so much gear and needs to count each round! Great video, keep it up Yank!
Piere Vojzola awesome feedback! Thank you very much, sir. And thank you for your allied service. Respect.
Lol, memories, the 'mouse' - except here in South Africa we called it the 'rot' (rat).
In Canada it was called a rat as well!
Do Paras not wax their arses? ;-)
Piere Vojzola I had a chance to use a FAP FUSIL AUTOMATICO PESADO (heavy barelled fully automatic FAL)with a bipod.....in the South Atlantic and can assure you i had no problems with it functioning in very cold and miserable weather,in fact if it were not for its functionality I probably would not be writing these lines today.........kept many heads down , and did its job without any fault,would use it again in a heart beat..in fact when the conflict was over, I noticed many British chaps with the Argentine issued FAL with the full auto selector ....seems they were well regarded by them as well..............I for one would never use an enemy firearm unless it was superior to my own......just my humble experience......
The British version didn't have a reciprocating charging handle - quite the reverse - it folded forward, locking on the front of the receiver, reducing the chance of getting snagged on clothing or webbing. It also had a much larger magazine release extending out to the left side, so rlease the mag with the thumb, fingers round the front of the mag and rotate off
As 'Bloke on the Range' said, Enfield did quite a lot of things very well when they "improved" the FN FAL..
well done, informative, and very professional. Thank you.
First time I have watched your show, absolutely outstanding Bruv (Bro!), from Ron in the UK.
Can't believe we went from the FAL to the SA80...
NZAnimeManga the mk1 SA80 was bollocks. The U.K. had to buy HK and get them to sort it out. The newer version is a good rifle.
EvilLabrador1
It's still far to heavy
I was serving when the SA 80 came in, my very first thought was "Bollocks". It was so badly made.
EvilLabrador1 Enfield owned HK at the time so it’s not as daft as it sounds!
No, not Enfield Arms, but Royal Ordenance, quite a difference I believe - although the former was 'liquidated' or finally closed before the other was, which just so happened to occur during the final design and production of the horrible SA-80-A1 its relative A1'd LSW. The A2's/A3's are comparatively excellent to the old ones, albeit righthanders only still.
I may be reminiscing of the good old days, but the L1A1 FN FAL was for me the best battle rifle ever made for an Infantry man. 9 years this was my PW and having played with a few different rifles, this is by far my favorite. You can run, but you cant hide from this beast and it will come and get you wherever you are.
I thought that was a out standing video! Thruthful entertaining + it taught me a great deal about the FN FAL. Thankyou very much!!!
This gun had stopping power, when we (UK) swapped to the SA80 we all thought we had been given a toy.
Scott sa80 looked like some water gun you could get out of toysrus
The Labour party was a creation of the Soviet polit bureau. It was probably adopted as a means of undermining British military strength.
Exactly the same response that we Americans had back in the 60s with the m16. Joked that Mattel was making them.
Brian Stewart it was under a Conservative government that the SA80 was introduced.
@@SkooterxD Then they shut the fuck up when they got handed twice the ammo and a functional shoulder.
I had the Enfield version L1A1 SLR in the British Army. It was my best friend and it never let me down.
@Parmanand Motiramani परमानन्द मोतीरामानी no
@Parmanand Motiramani परमानन्द मोतीरामानी We were told it could take a leg off at 1 mile. (not necessarily accurately though)
I think Lithgow (Australia) also made them as well. Well used in Vietnam.
Parmanand Motiramani परमानन्द मोतीरामानी
A trained shooter can certainly drop a man-sized target at 900 metres. With the 7.62 NATO cartridge your target doesn’t really stand a chance. Beautiful, reliable and accurate battle rifle. Not to be used on full auto. That’s why the British SLR was semi-auto only.
@@namor357 the SLR with iron sights, or otherwise, is not accurate to 900m
Excellent history and context for me on the FN FAL! It filled in a lot of the gaps for me and explained the FN FAL in a way that was super easy to consume. Great review and fantastic how you drilled into the details of what happened with America's interaction with the gun and how the politics affected our consumption of it and the rounds we chose. I agree with you our troops would have benefitted greatly from this gun during the cold war years. Thanks for talking fast and adding a ton of terrific historical photos and content. thank you.
Greg Swanson wow! Thank you sir! I appreciate you recognizing the effort.
Just come across this channel for the first time. Great video. We called it the SLR (L1A1) over here in Australia. I had 2, one for the field and one for the shooting team. I loved it, and was very disappointed when we adopted the Styer.
Brilliant,really liked the history, just subscribed 👍
I am pretty impressed. Not only do you know the history of the FAL, but this is one of the best 15 minute history lessons. DS Arms makes some pretty good stuff, much better than the other makers and importers of inch and metric FALs. The FAL is the most common 7.62 NATO, but it is not well known in the USA. Keep up the good work.
Ryan Scott thanks Ryan. Appreciate your feedback!
I have great respect for this battle rifle. I actually picked up a Pre-Ban model a week ago for only $1800! She is a true beauty.
This is the best battle rifle ever made. His handling is awesome, his power is outstanding. Here in Brazil he is used by the army, police and bandits. He should be more recognized as the greatest battle rifle ever made.
Great sniper rifle.
I qualified with the M14 in the Marine Corps 1970 ... I think it's one of the finest battle rifles on the planet; however, although I don't personally have experience with the FN FAL, it know it to be the outstanding weapon that you demonstrated. Well done!
It is nice to see my old FAL again . I had the M3 Para for 4 years . Loved the rifle in the Congo , i hated it on speedmarches. Nice video. It never led my down. AB.Belgium.
Hi, Australia which fought in the Vietnam war as a U.S Allie used the FN FAL !
wingcommander03 Known as SLRRRR...
Great research and exposition. of details. Thorough analysis and explanation of historical and political situations. Clear and concise commentary. Great presentation.
I remember this fine lady as the SLR ... it used to get bloody heavy carrying it around but we were always glad of the weight & length especially when used in conjunction with the bayonet, the 7.62 round inspired confidence - anything you shot stayed shot. enjoyed the video .thank you.
Under licence, that rifle was made in Australia by 'Lithgow Small Arms' and modified to be 'Our Rifle and call ed 'SLR L1A1'. It is the rifle that i used in the majority of my time 'in service' with the ADF until it was phased out by the mid '90's and replaced by the styre AUG FN88 using that 5.56. Didnt matter what you did with the SLR. After basic training you could literally run all day with that beast hanging of your arm and it not really bother you. You could run out of rounds and use the steel butt plate to butt stroke an enemy combatant... thats where the nice weight comes in handy :) . Doing combat rolls, no problems or even patrolling and fighting in jungle, no problems.Take out the gas system, it will still fire. Just have to keep cocking it :) . Loved that weapon. Great video mate, brought back many a fine memory. Cheers for sharing :)
Totally agree with all you said, fought in the angolan bush war in 1980-1989...2 years service, then 3 month camps every year, we used the R1armscor versioun of the Fn-fal, although we did have older ones from Belgium, the R1 is about two pounds lighter, and a better rifle, less jams, (we had that fine "Egyptian" dust. In 86, our R1's were replaced with the R4 with folding stock and bipod, awesome some rifle, however.....THE PENETRATION OF A R1 IS UNMATCHED!! Great video!!
Richard Webb thank you!
The R1 is the same in all but name to the Belgian made FAL & the same weight. The R2 was about a pound lighter, due to having a hinduminium alloy lower & the folding butt - basically an SA manufactured 50.64
@@GARDENER42 R4 is Israelis Galil. R4 is produced under licence of Galil
So, is there an IMPROVED version of the FN FAL?? :O
@@GARDENER42 All the Belgian FN"s I saw during my time in the SADF had wooden stocks, South African R1"s had plastic stocks. That's probably where the weight difference came in.
Great history lesson, I learned a lot. I was in the Canadian army in the 1980's when we used the FN C1/C2 ( FN FAL), great rifle. The build quality of the FN was never in question, it was top notch. We then adopted the C7 / C8 (M16) in 1989 when most of NATO adopted the 5.56 x 45 cartridge.
Thanks for your presentation of an outstanding weapon and its development history. I was trained on the ultra reliable FN FAL in the British Army. The 7.62mm round would penetrate a brick wall. Can't remember if I ever suffered a single stoppage or hard extraction. A superb design, I used to strip and assemble this rifle blindfolded. Beautiful weapon.
Good Info on the FN FAL.
DragonU.S.M.C/0311 appreciate you!
the British FAL (L1A1 SLR) along with the Canadian and Austrlian models had a folding non reciprocating charging handle.
Jackal's Outdoor Channel thanks! Good info
C1A1
I have one of the Century rebuilds I got before I knew Centurys reputation.I researched it and it is all Australian,no metric mismatches.Ive never had any trouble with it at all in 16 years.I guess it would even be rare nowdays,century or not.
British Designation was SLR (Self Loading Rifle) L1A1 had wooden furniture. L1A2 had plastic. Both had a non reciprocating handle. Some A2's had the carry handle removed.
The gas system was a plus as with the cheap ammo the mod supplied us with you often had to open it up because of under powered rounds or the powder threw such crap in the works after a few rounds you had misfeeds. Also the extractor would rip the heads off cases with soft brass! It was the ammo not the weapon.
Speaking to friends who served with both they hated the SA80. I just missed that toygun!
The only addition I would have liked was the folding bipod off the FAL fully automatic! It was long and heavy after a while! Especially if held on handed, by the muzzle, at full extension due to some infraction the instructor did not like! Ouch!
Although supposedly assigned a Sterling SMG I managed to keep the SLR on my docket and carry it whenever possible. My favourite rifle. Used it for the first time as a cadet at 14, then through 6 years RAF service.(18 - 24)
Could remove half its parts and as long as you had the bolt you could still fire! Simple to strip not like (apparently) the SA80 with lots of little parts! A video bringing back memories!
Jackal's Outdoor Channel the Dutch version had some differences with the other models out there . Here is some eyecandy . fnforum.net/forums/fn-fal/72255-dutch-fal-s.html
I loved mine but , i understand why the Israëli’s got rid of theirs . It is great to have a rifle that can take down targets half a mile away but , it must function first . I too have had my share of malfunctions in dusty environments . The other weapon i loved was the FN MAG which you call the GPMG . Lugging it around and. Cleaning that beast wasn’t that much fun either . But making it bark made up for that part . Still , to be fair out of 22 months i was equipped with the easiest one of all , the UZI .
The L1A1 (SLR) as it was designated by the British Army was a great weapon. Yes, it was a touch long but you soon got used to it for general use. I got my 'Marksman' badge with it and found it to be accurate out to 600m in the prone position.
As an old Aussie SLR user I found this very informative and well presented. Thanks.
This was my girlfriend for six years here in Brazil
mine too .... brit here... was taught if the enemy hid behind anything just shoot through it!
Mine too, I'm Mexican. A sweetheart hard to forget.
Yes, I can believe that. You gun nutters probably sit at home at night beating off to your rifles. Sick people. Sad.
@@Hume2012 You regressive idiots have at least one more thing in common: You have no sense of humor.
@@Hume2012
That was a vile comment, my friend. It's not that we love these rifles, we adore them. If You'd ever been in combat, You'd understand. Can save your life. I'm not saying that we're better than the rest, it's just the way it is. Personally, AK-47.
Spent a few years in the Canadian forces in late 70s and early 80s and have fired many rounds through our version, the FNC1 A1...awesome power and accuracy. It looks brand new and yet, the date stamp on it read "1958"...superb build quality indeed. (as was the bayonet!) Great video, thanks!!
Awesome. I have heard stories but didn't know the development. My FN/FAL is heavy and long but one of my favorite rifles in my collection. It's accurate smooth and fun. Great video
Interesting, informative, educational. Very, very nice essay on a fine piece. Thank you, Sir.
When i was serving in the Austrian Army from 1984, i was in the very lucky situation to got training in both then in use rifles, the STG58 (Sturmgewehr 58) a FN FAL in .308 (7,62x51) and in the futuristic looking STG77 (Sturmgewehr 77) the AUG from STEYR in .223 (5,56x45). I loved to shoot both rifles very much, but in serious times, i would allways prefer to have a rifle in .308 then in .223. Just because of the performance on 300 meters plus and the better penetration. In our modern times the armys have even found a name for it. Designated Marksman.
Very informative, and the absolute truth, period! When arrogance and politics get mixed together, it almost never holds the lives of others in high regard. The M14 was a good rifle design, but it will never surpass the FN FAL. I actually recall being told this during a rifle design discussion. I was a fresh boot out of recruit training, and a retiring 1st Sgt, (who had combat experience with an M14 from Vietnam) told us how much he loved the FN FAL, when he trained with the Royal Marines back in the mid 70s. And he said it 30 years ago, kind of like you did... "It was not needed." He told us we should have had those FNs.
Great video! When I joined the CAF in 1986, the FN C1A1 was the rifle I was issued. In 1990 we replaced it with Colt C7. Then the C7A1, and now the C7A2...To this day I would take an FN C1A1 over the C7 any day. It was hard to make it jam and the 308 never let you down. Great weapon!
Grate historical presentation for arms and very helpful, good job Paul. 👌👌👌👌👌👌
I had one built from parts here in USA and it’s a peach!
New England Custom Guns did a simply awesome job! Anyone looking to build a mint rifle should contact these guys. Also Ryan Spence in Ohio who built my Galil from scratch with a new barrel. Both awesome rifles! South Africa used the R1 designation for the FAL and R4 for the Galil.
Great video guys .... got to say im a huge fan of the FN'.. in England its known as the SLR ' .. For me this is one of the top 3 all time best battle rifles ever made . Im ok with the weight and lenght even if its not quite as easy to handle .. acuracy is very good and it hits hard and its reliability is very good.. I guess its popularity speaks volumes as to its quality.
I picked up one these a while back. I love it. Good video!
This video is so good, informative and interesting I keep coming back to watch 👍🇬🇧
The Australians used the FN in Vietnam
John Capezza I still carried one in the Australian Army in 1990. My rifles was made in 65 I was made in 67. Most reliable weapon I ever carried
Wayne Daly the Aussie army is badass , they where really impressive in all wars they’ve ever been in.
Yup , as did the SAS contingents from Aus and NZ . Long history in both countries with the FN and Lithgow L1A1
John Capezza do did the kiwis
The South African Army really kicked Ass with the FN in the Angolan War .
Good stuff. Nice bit of background history. I'm ex South African army from the 80's and the SA army used the FA FNL as battle rifle but was called the R1. I was in the time where the SA Army switched over from the FA FNL/R1 - 7.62 callibre to the R4 - 5.56 calibre (variation is the R5 - shorter barrel). It was based on the Israeli made Galil. Also a 5.56 calibre and the look is remarkably similar. As a ex soldier that used both extensively I am not that keen on the 5.56 R4/5. Very little punching power. As old mate stated in the video very correctly when facing the FA FNL, if the think you are out of range your are very wrong and your "cover" just becomes camoflauge... It is a great rifle. Much understated and propably the best battle rifle ever. And contrary to some belief circles not too heavy or too long at all as a battle rifle. It's like a technivally sound heavy weight boxer with a long, vicious jab. As a special forces sniper we got to use them, amongst others, as such fitted with top of the range telescopic abilities for that time and age. The FA FNL also comes with the foldable stock and was great in close quarters like trench and urban warfare. Funny enough not my favourite rifle ever. My dad had a 1945 made .22 fitted retrospectively with a scope and as a bush boy growing up that is my favourite rifle of all time but I suppose it's just nostalgia talking. Because of my background my favourite is the Barret .50 but that's a assignment dedicated rifle and as such in a class all on its own. The FA FNL is in my humble opinion the greatest battle rifle of all time!
Barend Oberholzer
Hey boet, howzit! Me too. Served 8 Batt. Upington. Initially issued the R1 and re-issued R4 ahead of Ops in Angola. Loved the R1 and agree with everything you said. If maintained and cleaned it was very reliable - I personally never had a stoppage and weight was never an issue. Extremely accurate rifle though full Auto was a problem for most except a few seasoned "paraat" instructors. I think that's why the military brains trust decided on replacing the R1.
The R1 is a great weapon for a conventional war somewhere in Europe that doesn't have the extremes we have here in Africa. Most contact situe's were within 300m +/- It is always an advantage to have sustained maximum firepower when storming a dug in enemy in a defensive position and fire on the move full auto with an R4 is a whole lot easier than an R1. Besides you have the covering firepower of the LMG's shooting 7.62mm. So all things considered I think the transition from the R1 to R4 / R5 / R6 was the logical decision IE. Simplicity of design, ease of use, maintenance friendly, reliable, sustained and accurate full auto fire. Be well boet.
And FN now produces the M4 and M16, take that Studler.
And the M249 and M240
@@ButtersTheGreat1 you mean the mag and minimi?
@@professionalschizo noo, I just call them ak's, like any civil person ... But those are without a doubt just a diferent designation for the minimi and the mag. I can't however, call any "ar" pattern m4's or m16's despite them having an equal plentifull number of models and variants.
Genuinely informative, good work!
This man needs a TV show deal! Very professional and informative!
Great video and superb commentary. I trained on FN-FALs (SLRs) in New Zealand and found them to be excellent.
Shame about that .280 huh?
My favorite service rifle by far.
Of course ours were labeled " The rifle FNC1A1".
Good review . Thanks!
Loved this video.
You tell it like it was.
Kudos.
TY for posting this video, I've never heard the story from this perspective & now it makes sence. Too bad, I got to shoot a FAL once & have allways wanted one since.
Great video keep em coming. I'd like a video of the M14/M16 replacement
FDNY101202 coming up....
I was in the British army, the Royal armoured corps. My personal weapon in a tank was the SMG. But the first small arm I was trained on was the SLR. That was the weapon we used in Northern Ireland. I loved the ring that the rifle made that you could hear after the last shot.
Fantastic review & history lesson. Thank you.
I loved my SLR when I was serving in the Australian army. I was there for the change over to the F88 Aus Steyr. I never liked that 'plastic fantastic' bloody thing. These days, after having spent years working with these firearms, the government doesn't see fit to allow us to own semi-auto's of any description. I also once owned a Mini 14. I loved the action on that as well. Very similar to the M14 action. But the SLR was my favourite rifle, and still is, even now. Your video has made me feel a bit nostalgic for times long past.
Likewise... The L1A1 looked the goods and was hard to break. I hardly used the Steyr as I was getting out as it was being introduced. I kinda compare the L1A1 to the old Bren gun in terms of performance, reliability and fitness for combat. Used both and loved them. We should be allowed to own either.
The F88 is dead accurate, but I miss the L1A1
Australian FAL/SLR/L1A1's are highly regarded in the US, I wish they still made them :(
Fellow Australian and also a former owner of the Mini-14/180. I hated that rifle, but you can chalk that up to it being a 1974 production with its problematic ejector. During my service, I loved the F88. The SLR was a decent rifle and a pleasure to use, but the F88 is a superior platform for modern combat purposes. The SLR was a product for its time, and it was the right product for its time, but to call it superior to the F88 as warfare advanced is a huge disservice to the F88 which has becomes the right rifle for Australia's evolving needs.
Though to be fair, I'd be happy with either if offered to me.
@@dylanwight5764 we now have the ef88 by Lithgow which is an upgrade over the f88, even nicer.
Any FN FAL if well maintained, is a good rifle, if its set up right. Its an old platform but a reliable one. M14 is a great rifle, but the FAL, is better, in my humble opinion.
You're comparing apples from different trees. Still apples though. As I held an FN FAL in my due year in the Mexican Army, I will always be biased to it. Can't help it, but I'm totally sure you know what I mean. BUT, if you ask me, an M-14 is no lesser option. I actually like it better, all steel and walnut (I love walnut), and both kick like angry mules in full auto. Man, they can be as old platforms as can possibly be, but in a world where everybody wishes for small bores and big magazines, a 7.62 hit is but a solid hit, you only need one. Come to think, you ever met anybody saying he survived a 7.62N hit? :D
@H AL I would not like to be shot with either platform to be honest. Admittedly, the M14 is a slightly more refined weapon, However the FAL FN has very good accuracy for a system that is over 60 years old. Just meat and potatoes :)
was issued an M14 in basic training 1965 US Army Ft Dix and also in Germany were I served for 19 months. LOVED my M14 but did not see combat. Of course I had to grab a SA M1A 10 years ago to shoot NRA / SA high power.
rgee bee iron sights baby. 100p
Same same, they both have the same issues...
Great video. The FAL is a fantastic weapon with interesting history.
Cheers great history lesson - remember shooting a .22 modified on an indoor range and a 7.62 on an outdoor range in the 80's at Strensal barracks in UK.
Excellent. Subbed
Very nice work!
"Struggling in the jungle" rhodesia light infantry... all I'm saying
Wish we had the ability to own such weapons in the UK love the series and thanks for the great videos
We once did until the late 80's when they banned them here. I had a G1 with metal handguards and bipod.
An excellent home defence weapon for farmers in remote areas.
you can own this weapon albeit with the semi auto function deactivated making it a straight pull rifle
The M14 is a great riffle with some modifications a very good marksman riffle, but as an automatic riffle a counter part for the AK well that it is not.
Also i have never shot the FAL but i have shot the G3 we had the Swedish variant was our standard riffle in Lithuania and honestly i liked the AK47 and AK74 that we had left over from Soviet occupation times way more. The G3 was accurate but heavy, big, less reliable and more finicky than the AK's that i was used to so i just didn't click with it, dont get me wrong it shot a lot better than the AK, but when you are serving you get to shoot very little, and run around and carry the weapon A LOT, we used to call those guns the paddle as in the thing that you use to row a bot its long its gets stuck on branches and bushes and shit in the woods and its just a pain in the ass to use in damp dark forests with very high amount of vegetation like every Lithuanian forest out there. So when we got the new G36's we where ecstatic as soldiers i know the politics are a not always that one dimensional but for guys that have to carry those around the G36 was a god sent after having carried the G3 for a while.
Extremely well done video! Right on!
Gary Grimes except for the fact he doesnt know what semi-auto means. He said in the beginning TWICE that the sturmgewher was semi auto after he just said it was different then the bolt action or one shot guns like the garand were. Im sorry but if you are not even that into guns or starting out you learn the difference between semi auto and automatic. Smh
Interesting video. Nice to see they're still being made. An intrinsic part of the story was the EM-2 rifle no 9 the British bullpup (totally unrelated to the L85) for which the .280 round was originally developed. When the US rejected the round a larger calibre round the.280/30 was proposed, but this was rejected by the US too. The UK had by this time officially adopted the EM-2 in .280 naturally assuming the better round would be adopted by NATO. How wrong the UK was and the government kowtowed to the US army and scrapped it. Sadly the EM-2 could not be adapted to take the 7,62 round but happily the FAL could.
A lot of information well delivered, Paul.
oustanding content sir! Happy new year to you and yours.
Casey Ryback thanks and you too!
Great video!
I really appreciate the work you put into the research and the exposé that you laid out right now on the details I had no idea I needed an FAL in my life… unfortunately there was one for sale and I was familiar and the problem is now that I watched your video. I really want one…..
Great video buddy thank you. Interesting history presented entertainingly.