An ecalc video would be cool. Spending a day on ecalc is just part of the fun for me. I also don't like spending on parts that I may or may not use and this way I virtually never wind up with a combination that isn't at least good, if not great.
A thrust stand, watt meter and tach are a must if you are sizing a motor prop combo for a plane that you can't find an equivalent for. They are especially handy when upgrading from a brushed motor on an old plane with little documentation. Great video, thanks.
@@thomasedwards629. I’m no expert, this is what I believe is the problem. Static thrust measurement is not an accurate representation of what happens when the equipment is on a model flying through the air. It’s harder to drag air around, than it is to pull a plane through the air. If you have a safe place to try this, all you need is your model, transmitter, a lipo alarm & someone securely hold your model plane. With everything in place, give it full throttle for only 1 or 2 minutes. You will probably find the motor & ESC get quite warm. There is a possibility of battery sag, hence the lipo alarm. I use this simple test when changing the prop, motor, or battery size. It doesn’t give me any data, but if nothing gets too hot after 2 minutes, I’m confident that it won’t burn up mid flight. Then I can conduct the real test of “does it enhance my flying experience”.
1) 3 blade props seem to give you around 2%-8% more thrust but at the cost of higher amp consumption vs. the equivalent thrust 2-blade prop. Generally the only reason for using them is blade clearance (you can't fit bigger props) and to counter torque roll. 2) There is a non-trivial relationship between prop diameter, pitch and stall speed. The rule of thumb is that the closer the pitch is to the diameter the higher the stall speed. This doesn't mean you can't have a 'square' prop (5x5, 6x6, etc) though but it won't be able to enter it's power band until the model is moving fast enough. You will see this as the model appearing underpowered at low speeds, even to the point of not being able to stay in the air but fine once moving quickly. 3) The flexibility, chord and airfoil design of the blades also matters but to keep things simple a thinner, stiffer blade is required for faster Kv motors whereas wide, paddle-like blades are better for slow fliers. 4) Higher Kv motors don't always produce a noticeably faster model, given the same prop. I'm not entirely sure why but it seems effective torque has a significant impact, i.e. a lower pitch but with a larger diameter can actually make a model go faster.
Same for me, my entire 2020 involved me going to the field and coming home and swapping out my motor and prop and repeat...mixing in some crashes here and there. I could've used the info then
Awesome video Lee. After burning my sunnysky motor in the Dart 250g (noob here) I found myself in a bit of a pickle :/ I didnt want to wait weeks to get another one from banggod and my local FPV shop had only some emax almost the same size. but you answered all my questions. :D
A couple of things that hasn’t been mentioned: 1) bigger props are more efficient but they might end up burning your motor so don’t overdo it. Motors do burn with bigger motors than the manufacturer suggests. 2) bigger props are heavier. Tri-blades are heavier than bi-blades. They have bigger wind resistance while they spin. These three factors will generate more amperage consumption.
Very interesting topic. I use eCalc to replace my 1806 2400kv (bearing damage) motor on my AR-Wing Mini. I will try a 2306 1700KV with 6x4 prop on 3s Li-ion.
I just experience all these stuff and your video help me to increase efficiency of my wing, also now i experimenting 3d printing prop in ABS as we know using abs filament its need many custom setting in cura. Need a video on prop and parts 3d printing video for mor information
Great stuff! Another excellent video. Having said that, though, I've never really been a fan of electric flight; I still can't stand rechargeable batteries (yes, I've done them all since the late 1970s, and even today's LiPos annoy me). I like lazy 4-stroke glow engines, but moved away from those when the drone laws arrived. Everything's sub-250g now. I've dug out my old free-flight diesels; they're tiny but cute and very silly indeed. (We like silly.) My most recent project was rubber-powered - a 60" span polyhedral, rudder and elevator, balsa and tissue job, with a folding prop. Lots of fun, lots of undercamber, and capable of thermalling over a hot cup of tea. I know I really ought to be more into electric flight, but... well, leccy motors and ESCs and LiPos just don't do it for me...
Let’s say I want to create a self launching 3m span glider but I should use the motor only to takeoff the plane then turn the motor off and just soar and I want it to fly in the air as long as possible, do I need high kv or low kv motor?
Please help the community with a video on types of recommended props for fixed wing models. Please differentiate props based on Direct Drive, APC Style, GWS variants, Slow Fly ones, HQ Props, Glass vs CF Props, Gemfan Props Variants, Etc.
Thanks for the idea. In the mean time, please see the entire series already on the channel dedicated to motor and prop selection. It covers how to choose and how to pick a setup designed for best speed, best thrust and best endurance.
@@Painless360 Saw the entire series. Learnt from scratch and have been able to make my first plane - WIP. Can't thank you enough ever for all the guidance.
Do you think spinners are necessary for electric rc planes? I have a Turbo Timber Evo. and it looks like the ESC would get better air flow if the spinner was not installed.
I am trying to calculate the motor efficiency for a long range build. Wouldn't the motor charts be inaccurate due to the fact that the motor pulls many more amps when standing still on a thrust stand compared to moving through the air?
Even different designs of fixed props with the same pitch and diameter can use very different amounts of power. The only way to be sure is to test it on a thrust meter.. Happy flying
When using iNav there is a value that is calculated for you, "Average Efficiency", it is measured in mAh/Km. For Long Range I try to pick a prop/motor combo that brings this value as low as possible.
Great video sir Could you recommend an online store that sells backward folding props in different sizes for different size and different application flying wings, Thanks ( I live in California)
Hello, recently I broke a 2300 Kv edf ducted fan, and I am thinking of reusing the motor with a propeller for a plane. Is it possible or it will underperform severely? Thanks in advance.
@@Painless360 Max RPM: 53000 Motor Type: B3048 2300KV Standard Rotating Max Power (10sec): 1900W Continuous Power: 1700W Max Voltage: 22.2V (6S) Max Amps: 80A ESC (timing): Higher Thank you very much
Lee, on my current setup i'm using a single 3536 1400kv motor on 4s spinning a 8x6 prop producing around 2 kg thrust pulling around 50/55amps. i'm thinking about switching to two 2306 motors spinning a 5140 prop producing around 1 kg of thrust on 33 amps per motor... do you think this is do-able?? just for fun off course
@@Painless360 thanks Lee.. by the way, did you ever got the racer star 7405 nano fc working?? i'm trying to connect my BN-220 gps but with no luck of getting any sign off life in the gps( no blinking lights or so ever) selected uart 3 and set ublox 7 in inav but no luck yet
@@Painless360 thanks ill try to figure it out. i have a box full of 30a esc and 2212/920kv motors and was thinking maybe i can make some little planes with them.
@@Painless360 thanks. can you fly a mission without a radio? like it takes off and goes out then lands from a laptop? i want to make some semi disposable planes.
Do you say avoid 3 blade props because of balance issues or other reasons? I don't understand the reasoning of using a 3 blade prop for 3s and a 2 blade prop for 2s use with the Dart, the ground clearance of prop cannot be the reason as it;s used with the 2s, could you offer an explanation why ZOHD have done this? Thanks for all the time you spend putting these videos together!
Ignoring the efficiency loss of using a 3 blade, Painless probably also avoids 3 blade props because on something like a dart, youll always be landing on a blade or two.
Power. The 3 blades prop on 3s on the Dart250 is using 7A at full throttle while the 2 blades 5x5 on the same 3s is using 12amps and will burn your motor quickly. I know because mine burnt in that configuration and I was careful not using 100%...
@@FunBitesTV Yes but I was seriously careful about my throttle, I was upset about it, banggood refunded me 15€. Not sure which motor to replace it with, it's been difficult to choose. I like efficiency and I only own 3S batteries. :)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
...like the part mentioning eCalc 😁
We are always open to any ideas for improvemrnts - constantly working on it...
Cheers Markus
Please look at motocalc it has a lot of great comparison features that Ecalc does not have.
open it...
Hey Markus, I'd welcome the chance to chat and maybe make some more content that covers the tool - lee@painless360.com..
An ecalc video would be cool. Spending a day on ecalc is just part of the fun for me.
I also don't like spending on parts that I may or may not use and this way I virtually never wind up with a combination that isn't at least good, if not great.
A thrust stand, watt meter and tach are a must if you are sizing a motor prop combo for a plane that you can't find an equivalent for. They are especially handy when upgrading from a brushed motor on an old plane with little documentation.
Great video, thanks.
@@thomasedwards629. I’m no expert, this is what I believe is the problem. Static thrust measurement is not an accurate representation of what happens when the equipment is on a model flying through the air. It’s harder to drag air around, than it is to pull a plane through the air. If you have a safe place to try this, all you need is your model, transmitter, a lipo alarm & someone securely hold your model plane. With everything in place, give it full throttle for only 1 or 2 minutes. You will probably find the motor & ESC get quite warm. There is a possibility of battery sag, hence the lipo alarm. I use this simple test when changing the prop, motor, or battery size. It doesn’t give me any data, but if nothing gets too hot after 2 minutes, I’m confident that it won’t burn up mid flight. Then I can conduct the real test of “does it enhance my flying experience”.
Thanks Lee, Great stuff! Another excellent video.👍👍👍
What can I say, excellent video as usual; clear, concise, informed and entertaining. Cheers.
Great video! It answered most of my questions about how to find the best motor for my Jupiter Duck. :)
Check out the Motor and Prop series for more detail.. best of luck
1) 3 blade props seem to give you around 2%-8% more thrust but at the cost of higher amp consumption vs. the equivalent thrust 2-blade prop. Generally the only reason for using them is blade clearance (you can't fit bigger props) and to counter torque roll.
2) There is a non-trivial relationship between prop diameter, pitch and stall speed. The rule of thumb is that the closer the pitch is to the diameter the higher the stall speed. This doesn't mean you can't have a 'square' prop (5x5, 6x6, etc) though but it won't be able to enter it's power band until the model is moving fast enough. You will see this as the model appearing underpowered at low speeds, even to the point of not being able to stay in the air but fine once moving quickly.
3) The flexibility, chord and airfoil design of the blades also matters but to keep things simple a thinner, stiffer blade is required for faster Kv motors whereas wide, paddle-like blades are better for slow fliers.
4) Higher Kv motors don't always produce a noticeably faster model, given the same prop. I'm not entirely sure why but it seems effective torque has a significant impact, i.e. a lower pitch but with a larger diameter can actually make a model go faster.
Fantastic tips, Lee! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Awesome video Lee👍 So many questions answered in just few minutes 👏
As Always thanks so much for all your videos , they are very helpfull and full of usefull knoledge.
Good stuff, thanks for the vid! Could have used this video a couple of weeks ago when I was sorting out my trainer plane!
Same for me, my entire 2020 involved me going to the field and coming home and swapping out my motor and prop and repeat...mixing in some crashes here and there. I could've used the info then
Great video really helpful for people just starting out :)
brilliant confirmed that the motor I've ordered is correct, excellent video as always
Been looking for something like this for a long time. Great video!
Awesome video Lee. After burning my sunnysky motor in the Dart 250g (noob here) I found myself in a bit of a pickle :/ I didnt want to wait weeks to get another one from banggod and my local FPV shop had only some emax almost the same size. but you answered all my questions. :D
Great tool thanks, it's look like 8x6 will be way better for me than 9x4
A couple of things that hasn’t been mentioned:
1) bigger props are more efficient but they might end up burning your motor so don’t overdo it. Motors do burn with bigger motors than the manufacturer suggests.
2) bigger props are heavier. Tri-blades are heavier than bi-blades. They have bigger wind resistance while they spin. These three factors will generate more amperage consumption.
Very interesting topic. I use eCalc to replace my 1806 2400kv (bearing damage) motor on my AR-Wing Mini. I will try a 2306 1700KV with 6x4 prop on 3s Li-ion.
How did it turn out? I have to replace mine on the Dart250, it's a pain to find something.
I just experience all these stuff and your video help me to increase efficiency of my wing, also now i experimenting 3d printing prop in ABS as we know using abs filament its need many custom setting in cura. Need a video on prop and parts 3d printing video for mor information
See my videos in the 3D printing for R/C series..
Better off tpu mate
Great stuff! Another excellent video. Having said that, though, I've never really been a fan of electric flight; I still can't stand rechargeable batteries (yes, I've done them all since the late 1970s, and even today's LiPos annoy me).
I like lazy 4-stroke glow engines, but moved away from those when the drone laws arrived. Everything's sub-250g now. I've dug out my old free-flight diesels; they're tiny but cute and very silly indeed. (We like silly.)
My most recent project was rubber-powered - a 60" span polyhedral, rudder and elevator, balsa and tissue job, with a folding prop. Lots of fun, lots of undercamber, and capable of thermalling over a hot cup of tea.
I know I really ought to be more into electric flight, but... well, leccy motors and ESCs and LiPos just don't do it for me...
Once i added a 3 prop on my twinstar, i was able to fly slower and more in balance than before with my 2 blades withe the same size. :-)
Very informative. Thanks for sharing
Let’s say I want to create a self launching 3m span glider but I should use the motor only to takeoff the plane then turn the motor off and just soar and I want it to fly in the air as long as possible, do I need high kv or low kv motor?
KV is only one of the things to look at. See the rest of the series for how to choose everything you need.. Best of luck
Please help the community with a video on types of recommended props for fixed wing models. Please differentiate props based on Direct Drive, APC Style, GWS variants, Slow Fly ones, HQ Props, Glass vs CF Props, Gemfan Props Variants, Etc.
Thanks for the idea. In the mean time, please see the entire series already on the channel dedicated to motor and prop selection. It covers how to choose and how to pick a setup designed for best speed, best thrust and best endurance.
@@Painless360 Saw the entire series. Learnt from scratch and have been able to make my first plane - WIP. Can't thank you enough ever for all the guidance.
Do you think spinners are necessary for electric rc planes? I have a Turbo Timber Evo. and it looks like the ESC would get better air flow if the spinner was not installed.
I'm not sure they make a lot of different. I've always felt they were more for looks.. Happy flying
Great video. Did you do one of 3s vs 4s in different planes?
Lots. Check out the rest of the motor and prop series... Best of luck
@@Painless360 thank you
I am trying to calculate the motor efficiency for a long range build. Wouldn't the motor charts be inaccurate due to the fact that the motor pulls many more amps when standing still on a thrust stand compared to moving through the air?
Will adding or using foldable propellers make much difference in the esc’s or motors needed ? Thank you ...
Even different designs of fixed props with the same pitch and diameter can use very different amounts of power. The only way to be sure is to test it on a thrust meter.. Happy flying
When using iNav there is a value that is calculated for you, "Average Efficiency", it is measured in mAh/Km. For Long Range I try to pick a prop/motor combo that brings this value as low as possible.
Great video sir
Could you recommend an online store that sells backward folding props in different sizes for different size and different application flying wings,
Thanks
( I live in California)
I get mine from 3DXR here in the UK.. Look for a local Aero Naut stockist.. Best of luck
I can second that. Aero Naut props are up there with Master Airscrew in terms of quality.
Banggood sells pretty decent hubs and most larger sizes. APC also has a more fragile folding line that works well too for smaller sizes.
Static thrust and why it is needed to measure static thrust?
Covered in the series... best of luck
Hello, recently I broke a 2300 Kv edf ducted fan, and I am thinking of reusing the motor with a propeller for a plane. Is it possible or it will underperform severely? Thanks in advance.
It depends on what motor it is. KV is only one metric. What are the specs?
@@Painless360 Max RPM: 53000
Motor Type: B3048 2300KV Standard Rotating
Max Power (10sec): 1900W
Continuous Power: 1700W
Max Voltage: 22.2V (6S)
Max Amps: 80A
ESC (timing): Higher
Thank you very much
Lee, on my current setup i'm using a single 3536 1400kv motor on 4s spinning a 8x6 prop producing around 2 kg thrust pulling around 50/55amps. i'm thinking about switching to two 2306 motors spinning a 5140 prop producing around 1 kg of thrust on 33 amps per motor... do you think this is do-able?? just for fun off course
Sounds like it. Best of luck
@@Painless360 thanks Lee.. by the way, did you ever got the racer star 7405 nano fc working?? i'm trying to connect my BN-220 gps but with no luck of getting any sign off life in the gps( no blinking lights or so ever) selected uart 3 and set ublox 7 in inav but no luck yet
See my video on the build. I killed mine
is there a fixed wing that can use those motors and escs from the 450 quad kits? like a little wing or something cheap?
Depends on the weight of the model. You need to know how much thrust that motor and prop make and you can go from there.
@@Painless360 thanks ill try to figure it out. i have a box full of 30a esc and 2212/920kv motors and was thinking maybe i can make some little planes with them.
Check out flitetest foam board planes for those motors and esc's
With their lower KV and ability to swing larger props they should be able to be used again in a FW.. Best of luck
@@Painless360 thanks. can you fly a mission without a radio? like it takes off and goes out then lands from a laptop? i want to make some semi disposable planes.
Do you say avoid 3 blade props because of balance issues or other reasons? I don't understand the reasoning of using a 3 blade prop for 3s and a 2 blade prop for 2s use with the Dart, the ground clearance of prop cannot be the reason as it;s used with the 2s, could you offer an explanation why ZOHD have done this? Thanks for all the time you spend putting these videos together!
I'd guess either excessive amp consumption or increased torque roll tendencies when using 3S.
Ignoring the efficiency loss of using a 3 blade, Painless probably also avoids 3 blade props because on something like a dart, youll always be landing on a blade or two.
Power. The 3 blades prop on 3s on the Dart250 is using 7A at full throttle while the 2 blades 5x5 on the same 3s is using 12amps and will burn your motor quickly. I know because mine burnt in that configuration and I was careful not using 100%...
@@goku445 Yes i also burnt the motor ( but on 4s ) , did you burn it on 3s 5x5 ?
@@FunBitesTV Yes but I was seriously careful about my throttle, I was upset about it, banggood refunded me 15€. Not sure which motor to replace it with, it's been difficult to choose. I like efficiency and I only own 3S batteries. :)