That is a great tipp! I ordered the chemicals for my first batch of 510Pyro last week and the smallest unit of Phenidone i can buy is 50g. Just ordered your book and i am keen on to read what i can else mix for my filmdeveloping…
Ah, propylene glycol! Daniel Keating showed me this years ago. I go through phenidone very quickly so not a problem for me usually :) Also I make huge batches of 510 Pyro so can measure it out accurately :)
Yes, it's a classic technique that I've used for years too. I think it might come out of the public domain work Pat Gainer did. He was a good man! It was Gainer's work that helped DeFehr formulate 510-Pyro actually.
Great tip, John. I never knew propylene glycol was so cheap and available. I just picked up your book -- it's a great collection of photo chem data that will keep me busy for a while. I would highly recommend it for any amateur photo-chemist. Thanks, John, for sharing your knowledge so generously.
Thank you for such great feedback. I really appreciate all the good photographer friends I'm making through this work. You're welcome to join the Pictorial Planet Camera Club on Facebook if you want. It's open to all owners of my book. There you can get support for anything in the book. Thanks very much for buying my book, Dave!
Made my first Phenidone batch today John. Heating the water really does help. Question if I may. I rattle through film so should I make up the other 8grams I have or wait and make the 1g solution as shown here when needed. ? Wishing you well as always.
I got some Phenidone years ago from a Mate who worked here in Brentwood when ILFORD Ltd had their branch before they went to Mobberley. it looks just like your batch. I have to get my Boy to do 'Maths ' for me as I can't pass Maths at 'O' Level -- my WORST SUBJECT but I DID get 'A' Level Zoology and Chemistry !
I try to keep my phenidone fresh longer by dissolving it in glycol. It'll dissolve in TEA too but that's not PH neutral. I had a batch of phenidone A go bad on me once and I had the devil of a job dissolving it in developers. 'A' level Zoology? Remember Animal Magic? I loved that show :)
I have been doing this exactly as shown for about 15 years, and it woks perfectly. Previously, I consumed a lot of time dissolving my phenidone directly in water. I do not know how long the phen/glucol solution will last, but mine have lasted as long as required as used up, more than 5 years. My firs time, I heated the glycol in a microwave, and it worked fine. The last time, I overheated it in the microwave. That was a disaster - never again.
It's certainly a good idea to keep your phenidone in a glycol solution, making it easy to measure out and for good keeping. The sodium ascorbate seems to keep well for me in a sealed jar.
I've used pg for years to dissolve phenidone and added it to a multitude of developers. In my experience, it doesn't seem to affect the developer at all.
This is a great question. Use this same technique but dissolve the phenidone in TEA (the same as used to make the 510-Pyro. That way you are using like solvent with like solvent.
Can this same trick also be done with Glycin? The problem is that, I have some glycin lying around but its older that the 6 month shelvelife is this still usuable you think? Or should I next time do this same trick you do with phenidone?
I've never tried it with glycin. I freeze my glycin. Don't know if that helps preserve it longer but it seems to work. As glycin ages it gets harder to dissolve. If you can dissolve it then it's ok so yours might well be good. Give it a try.
@@PictorialPlanet ah thanks for your quick response! I just mixed up some illford ID24 with the glycin i was talking about. It did solve completely but it was a bit brownish when I got it out of the bag.... Let's see.... Do you have any experience with ID 24, it seems you can do quite some interesting things with it according to the darkroom cookbook.. Seems that you can control the color of the print depending on the exposure of the paper and the dilution of the developer... Sounds super interesting to me... page 287 of the darkroom cookbook 4th edition!
When I read about making H&W Control developer (for some microfilm stock I wanted to process for pictorial use and get maximum film speed out of) it was suggested to use 91% isopropanol to make this 1% stock solution of phenidone. I didn't keep using that developer long enough to confirm, but the author I read claimed the phenidone would last years in that solution as well -- and 91% isopropanol is easy to get locally, and *really* cheap.
It works but I don't know how long for either. Glycol definitely lasts a long time though or TEA which lasts years (but is alkaline so will effect your developing times slightly).
I wanted to try this method with my belini phenidone A i recently ordered but it seems it is not desolving... nor is it changing color...? looks like the crystals are floating around in the liquid.... I did not heat up to glycol... could that be an problem? can i still fix this by heating the solution?
Unfortunately formulas that use metol use a lot more (in weight) than phenidone. This would mean the concentration of the metol solution would need to be very high if it would be of value. I don't think you can dissolve that much metol.
I don't use it for metol. I find my metol stays good for much longer than my phenidone. The metol I'm using now is two years old and I'm nearly through it.
In my experience phenidone gets harder to dissolve in water as it ages. Also, negatives start getting thin. If in doubt it might be good to get fresh and dissolve it in propylene glycol, up to a 5% solution is good depending what you use it for.
That is a great tipp!
I ordered the chemicals for my first batch of 510Pyro last week and the smallest unit of Phenidone i can buy is 50g. Just ordered your book and i am keen on to read what i can else mix for my filmdeveloping…
Ah, propylene glycol! Daniel Keating showed me this years ago. I go through phenidone very quickly so not a problem for me usually :)
Also I make huge batches of 510 Pyro so can measure it out accurately :)
Yes, it's a classic technique that I've used for years too. I think it might come out of the public domain work Pat Gainer did. He was a good man! It was Gainer's work that helped DeFehr formulate 510-Pyro actually.
Great tip, John. I never knew propylene glycol was so cheap and available. I just picked up your book -- it's a great collection of photo chem data that will keep me busy for a while. I would highly recommend it for any amateur photo-chemist. Thanks, John, for sharing your knowledge so generously.
Thank you for such great feedback. I really appreciate all the good photographer friends I'm making through this work. You're welcome to join the Pictorial Planet Camera Club on Facebook if you want. It's open to all owners of my book. There you can get support for anything in the book. Thanks very much for buying my book, Dave!
Yep, I bet you're right Bob!
Made my first Phenidone batch today John. Heating the water really does help. Question if I may. I rattle through film so should I make up the other 8grams I have or wait and make the 1g solution as shown here when needed. ? Wishing you well as always.
If you're going to go through your dry batch fairly quickly then just make the 1% solution (up to 5% works) as needed.
I got some Phenidone years ago from a Mate who worked here in Brentwood when ILFORD Ltd had their branch before they went to Mobberley. it looks just like your batch. I have to get my Boy to do 'Maths ' for me as I can't pass Maths at 'O' Level -- my WORST SUBJECT but I DID get 'A' Level Zoology and Chemistry !
I try to keep my phenidone fresh longer by dissolving it in glycol. It'll dissolve in TEA too but that's not PH neutral. I had a batch of phenidone A go bad on me once and I had the devil of a job dissolving it in developers. 'A' level Zoology? Remember Animal Magic? I loved that show :)
I have been doing this exactly as shown for about 15 years, and it woks perfectly. Previously, I consumed a lot of time dissolving my phenidone directly in water. I do not know how long the phen/glucol solution will last, but mine have lasted as long as required as used up, more than 5 years. My firs time, I heated the glycol in a microwave, and it worked fine. The last time, I overheated it in the microwave. That was a disaster - never again.
Good advice! Really glad you like this technique, Randall.
Great tip, thanks! Question: Can sodium ascorbate also be dissolved in the glycol together with the phenidone (e.g. to make part B of FX-55)?
I'm afraid sodium ascorbate cannot be dissolved in glycol.
@@PictorialPlanet Thank you for pointing that out. What a pity. Both ingredients in one solution would be the perfect solution in making FX-55.
It's certainly a good idea to keep your phenidone in a glycol solution, making it easy to measure out and for good keeping. The sodium ascorbate seems to keep well for me in a sealed jar.
Can/ Should I use this technique for Dimesone S?
Is the PG inert in any developer you might add that to?
I've used pg for years to dissolve phenidone and added it to a multitude of developers. In my experience, it doesn't seem to affect the developer at all.
Can u use this solution with the Pyro 510? .375 phenidone will be easy to be measured with the liquid version
This is a great question. Use this same technique but dissolve the phenidone in TEA (the same as used to make the 510-Pyro. That way you are using like solvent with like solvent.
Can this same trick also be done with Glycin? The problem is that, I have some glycin lying around but its older that the 6 month shelvelife is this still usuable you think? Or should I next time do this same trick you do with phenidone?
I've never tried it with glycin. I freeze my glycin. Don't know if that helps preserve it longer but it seems to work. As glycin ages it gets harder to dissolve. If you can dissolve it then it's ok so yours might well be good. Give it a try.
@@PictorialPlanet ah thanks for your quick response! I just mixed up some illford ID24 with the glycin i was talking about. It did solve completely but it was a bit brownish when I got it out of the bag.... Let's see.... Do you have any experience with ID 24, it seems you can do quite some interesting things with it according to the darkroom cookbook.. Seems that you can control the color of the print depending on the exposure of the paper and the dilution of the developer... Sounds super interesting to me... page 287 of the darkroom cookbook 4th edition!
I'll take a look, sounds fun!
When I read about making H&W Control developer (for some microfilm stock I wanted to process for pictorial use and get maximum film speed out of) it was suggested to use 91% isopropanol to make this 1% stock solution of phenidone. I didn't keep using that developer long enough to confirm, but the author I read claimed the phenidone would last years in that solution as well -- and 91% isopropanol is easy to get locally, and *really* cheap.
It works but I don't know how long for either. Glycol definitely lasts a long time though or TEA which lasts years (but is alkaline so will effect your developing times slightly).
An excellent tip. I think I know what prompted you to make this video. :-)
Spot on, Colin :)
I wanted to try this method with my belini phenidone A i recently ordered but it seems it is not desolving... nor is it changing color...? looks like the crystals are floating around in the liquid.... I did not heat up to glycol... could that be an problem? can i still fix this by heating the solution?
nevermind, it works once I warmed up the glycol! thanks!
Good, it does need some heat.
i was wondering if one could do the same with metol? its just so much easier to handle those (toxic) chemicals as liquids.
Unfortunately formulas that use metol use a lot more (in weight) than phenidone. This would mean the concentration of the metol solution would need to be very high if it would be of value. I don't think you can dissolve that much metol.
Hi John, does it work for metol as well?
I don't use it for metol. I find my metol stays good for much longer than my phenidone. The metol I'm using now is two years old and I'm nearly through it.
How can you tell if phenidone has lost its potency?
In my experience phenidone gets harder to dissolve in water as it ages. Also, negatives start getting thin. If in doubt it might be good to get fresh and dissolve it in propylene glycol, up to a 5% solution is good depending what you use it for.