California may lose their EPA exemption if it affects interstate commerce. Battery technology isn’t up to the task of pulling heavy loads over long distances.
I can see it now… electric train with 100 cars full of batteries pulling 10actual car. Until they catch fire. Or freeze up going over the Sierra’s in the winter. California what a state!
How about running out of power blocking intersections. Then, having to truck in a diesel generator to charge said batteries for two or three days to be able to run again.
You might think you can see it, but in reality it isn’t primarily batteries. These will be electrified systems that use power lines. Evidence from other counties indicates they work very well. Yes evidence, not opinion.
@@eliasthienpont6330 I have heard of 3rd rails. I install power lines. We have had 3rd rail estimates/proposals. 42 years its been estimated to convert the state at 9 Billion dollars. Bart took 14 years and that was only 1 city. High speed rail is 20 years in and less than 10% construction complete. 3rd rails are great but not if the transmission lines are already overloaded, and 60% of electrical energy is powered by fossil fuel anyways. Your plan takes 20 years and 10s of billions to effectively relocate emmision to the powerplants
Hell ya we do along with that magic air curtain that keeps our atmosphere sealed off from the rest of the planet. You notice how none of the air from Arizona gets into CA . We burn the special expensive gas here we can't have Arizona air just blowing in. Here in CA we're going to save the planet all by ourselves by not making a single emission. In CA batteries charge themselves zero emissions produced. This state is totally refuckingdiculous ! CARB needs to go or pull their heads out of their ass but neither will happen.
Maybe you should examine your fantasies for what they are. The evidence of how this works is out there, available for you to find, if only you could do some basis research. It is amazing, that information is available that you fail to examine.
@PercivalFakeman the true irony of the green movement is the environmental burden all these batteries and plastics will pose in the not too distant future. A car from 1920 can sit in a field for 80 years and literally dissolve back into the earth it came from without a trace and with minimal environmental impact. A Tesla will remain recognizable for hundreds of years, but won't be usable for even a fraction of that time period. Lithium batteries are incredibly dangerous, toxic, and non recyclable. Creating wind turbines makes more carbon than it saves. The coal being burned to supply electricity for all this stuff is definitely not emissions zero. Quit lying to yourself and everyone else. There was a point where they were trying to fear monger over an imminent ice age. Now they've switched to global warming. The Earth has never had a stable temperature and was warmer before humans existed. Microplastics are going to kill us all well before our climate does, but there isn't a microplastics industry that can exploit guilty conscious eco warriors that think energy is plentiful or clean to produce. Bottom line- if we want electric trains without fuel based generators, we DONT need to add batteries. Subways, streetcars, European trains all have electrified tracks or over head lines. Why is that not a better solution?
I worked for the AT&SF, UP and BNSF telecom departments in Los Angeles and I’ve seen the LNG locomotives come and go, the one hydrogen powered locomotive which never sent into service and when I retired in 2021 they were experimenting with multi power plant locos that had three Gen sets on each unit that would start up and shut down as needed. The main question with all this shit like it is with EV cars is where are they going go get the electric power from?
The best way to fix this kind of Stupidity is to give them exactly what they want and stop moving all trains in the state and just sit back and see how long they keep the brand of stupid.
How much dumber can this idiot place get.Agree with you 100% here just sit back and see how long it takes for them to start screaming they are not getting their goods delivered.
@@PercivalFakeman Electric trains are still augmented by diesel electrics in some way or shape. Quit using Europe & Japan as your go to example's 'till you understand the entirety of what's doing. Oh and Europe? Fuck 'em.
As usual another failed government blunder from California without the population calling them out. One hundred billion spent for a train we will never see, politicians telling California's that there is a surplus of hundreds of millions when in reality having a deficit in the billions, 95% cut from forest management than blames the resulting problem on climate. This party will never change.
@@PercivalFakeman PGE warned they were going to cut power to people 2 months ago because of the risk of fire. Maybe once California goes 2 years without rolling blackouts or the possibility of having to cut power we'll consider taking them seriously. Until then, saner people in the country will continue to laugh whenever Gaven Nuisance says things like "we need to get rid of combustion engines."
@@AB-vc7ox Yeah, and it is important to keep politicians out of railroading. And with the Cali government trying to ban any locomotive that old is going to kill economical steam locomotive preservation in one way. Steam locomotor operations generate ECONOMY. People love them! I am sick of these lunatic California politicians.
not the most efficient but the second most efficient, only thing better is electric trains with overhead wires. but it's never as easy as just replacing them and in California the cost to build wiring and new locomotives will instantly destroy any benifit
@@ronal8824 Almost all the significant freight railroad mileage in the US has been upgraded for double stacked containers, which make overhead wires a non-starter, not to mention the other issues of bridges and tunnels. "... by 1980, efforts to improve rail economics led to the ability to stack containers on rail cars across America. This process - logically known as “double stacking” - allows a single train to carry as much freight as hundreds of trucks. Over the years, freight railroads have raised clearances, upgraded tunnels and strengthened rail lines throughout most of America’s nearly 140,000-mile freight rail network to accommodate double stacked intermodal trains. " ( Association of American Railroads )
I believe he was referring to the fact that these locomotives are hybrids....well diesel driven electric. Basically same idea. The unit already has batteries and only runs the diesel engine when needed
@@bjorn1583 nah they got batteries that's how they run no engine through my city at night to save noise. I think they only run on batteries for short periods on slight down grades and flats. I've definitely seen them rolling full speed no diesels running more than once in my life
California legislators clearly have zero idea how freight works. The amount of energy that needs to be stored in batteries would be likely half the payload of the entire train. Diesel fuel oil is substantially more energy dense than any current battery tech, and there's no way those batteries will last long with the kind of current and voltage demands necessary to move large volumes of freight.
Locomotives don't sit for days to be able to recharge batteries. It's common for trains to be recrewed and the power keeps moving. Downtime is not efficient. A little math and some good sense will prove that railroads are a blessing
@@PercivalFakeman Third rail works 'till it aint fully fenced, trucks bottomed out at crossing derail trains,get worn down, etc. What's you're background? "cuz you seem like the most annoying type of person: uneducated parrot(aka, spokesperson/lobbyist/influencer) OHHH, you're from Cali....RIGGGHTTTT....wait 'till Newsense goes after those drag cars...he cant even finish an intrastate HSR line, let alone state what fuel will provide the power to the catinary, or this mystic "third rail'. Do better. STFU.
Modern trains are diesel electric, which means that they have a diesel engine as the prime mover that turns an on board electrical generator. The locomotive then uses that electricity to operate the electric drive motors. The only other choice is to build thousands of miles of overhead electric cables, new power supply lines, and switchyards along the tracks.
Facts. The railroads are private sector. Unlike trucks & cars which have to share the costs via tolls, and annual taxes, trains build, maintain & operate there own right of way. The only places rail becomes government is Amtrak, and any commuter/metro line.
As a former born and raised CA resident. Also a former over the road truck driver thats hauled said products out of CA. If I was the president of union pacific or bnsf I would just stop moving freight. Block the tracks coming in/out of the state. Also block some of the intersections to slow the truck traffic. It would most likely only last less then a month before the ca government has to pull back on the epa bs. B/c they are losing to much money from the ports and from the produce exports and the revenue they create. And from the people ready to tar and feather there asses
Im sick of this state. What will happen is they will use the same diesel electric locos, but they will have to pull enough "Battery Cars" to run on electric only in Cali. Then fire up the diesel generator once they cross the border. Not sure if batteries have that capability but reality doesnt seem to stop these fascist
And even diesel trains are far more environmentally friendly than even electric cars or trucks or whatever you’re trying to use like a bloody hyper loop or something
Even in the later years of steam, they were magnitudes better than 100 of of the most common diesel semi today. Just put a semi-trailer onto a specialized flatcar, or better yet, take the top of said semi trailer off & put it onto a train car, and poof. One large steam engine can pull hundred or so trucks worth of loads.
Yes but our state will be free from oil and the cost of energy with fuel costs will be a thing of the past. We are already making great strides. It is based on some pretty smart people, not 7a educated opinions.
So what is California going to do with all of those container ships burning the bottom of the barrel oil. California doesn't have a probelm with their coastline import business.
The current Locomotives are electric drive, the Diesel runs a generator, from there it goes to throttle control then to the Traction Motors that drive the wheels. Gavin what you burning to keep the lites on? Oh forgot that's fairy fart dust, Carbon 0!
It's usually the locomotives that can power up a small town in a crisis. Now the town and the surrounding cities will have to power up the train to get it down the tracks to the next town where they'll have to hook into the grid once again to charge up. When you're pulling several thousand tons of train and product it takes energy. A battery is not going to work with our current technology
No BUT we can let THEM GO ELECTRICITY FREE . THAT WILL MAKE THEM A ENVIROMENTALLY FREE AN CLEAN STATE . OH NO FIRE TO CANT BRUN WOOD ARE COAL OLL WELL GOOD LUCK LIVING THERE. GOD SPEED TO YOU ALL . 🥳🍭🦄🍦🤪
I honest to god feel like the railroads would not and do not care AT ALL. They help supply the state in MAJOR ways. As if sayin' "gEt RiD oF yOuR dIeSeL lOcOmOtIvEs!" is gonna do somethin' lol
California can be influential and pushy. The railroad is a utility and part of the infrastructure of this country. California knows this but still keeps pushing this agenda. As a railroad employee I can tell you that it will definitely drive up the price of goods. The state will subsidize some of these hybrid locomotives. That means California will find a way to recoup that money. Maybe higher gas prices. We had hybrid units called “gensets”. They were light duty yard movers and weren’t that impressive. The only reason we got them was because California kept pushing to try them and gave the company tax breaks.
Hopefully the electric loco will not breakdown or run out of power at at rail crossings. I'm sure moving freight up and down the El Cajon pass will be no issue, nor clearing snow on Donner Pass. Good luck CA. Interesting how a state reg board is setting rules for trains operating under FRA... this will be a SCOTUS issue at some point
As a lifelong train and rail fan, as well as somebody who’s absolutely loved trains of all kinds growing up as a kid and forming a critical part of my childhood, and as somebody who knows that diesel locomotives are not one of the main contributors to climate change, this genuinely has my blood boiling.
To be devils advocate...it is done...though 2,296ft is not 1-2 miles....electrics do have one advantage aswell...better torque at low speeds. Just like small steam engines that couldn't get heavy trains start, but once they got going, could pull them all day long, except, backwards...
How about this jaded idea; stop all trains coming to California, load EVERYTHING in/on trucks and truck the products into California?! Load EVERYTHING into/on trucks and ship the products out of state, then transfer the loads to rail! BTW, increase shipping costs to cover the extra expenses to do so!
Sounds like when caligula declared war on the ocean and sent his army to fight it. They can declare whatever they want, reality will have the final say.
Gov Greasy Gavin Newsom needs to but out of the private sector unless they are doing something illegal.He is not the selector the people running the railroads are the selectors.
So when is the discussion of the hazardous waste produced by disposing and building Li Ion batteries going to take place? Cali Commi Politicians are good with polluting every one else just not their state.
A railroad mechanic who fixed train engines explained to me the diesel engine converts power to electric, the electric powers the Traction motors at the axles to move the train forward and backwards...... Submarines with diesel engines ( the same engines were used in freight train engines) convert power to be stored in batteries to run silent when submerged.
Diesel/electric is likely the most practical and efficient these trains will ever be. And I don't know why the CA farmers haven't moved back to Oklahoma (or elsewhere) yet. That truly sounds more ECO-friendly shipping produce from the center of the country and since CA needs water and electricity so badly, never having enough.
In Europe i saw locomotives with electric wires overhead for power and they also had diesel engines to start when no power lines were available. not a hard issue to solve.
This state is sooo out of control.... Thinking they can dictate the train industry. Can we please split this state in 1/2 east & west at the I5 already!? The west can slide off into the ocean at this point.
It's already a damn hybrid. The diesel engine is essentially a big ass generator. Electric motors already drive the wheels. It takes THAT MUCH power to haul freight, enjoy the even higher cost of electricity throughout Cali. 🤦♂
The ONLY way electric power units will work is via overhead electric lines…or a third “hot” rail. Batteries will not be able to provide the required sustained power…🤦🏻♂️
I’m a lifelong (Central) CA resident. The only reason I still reside here are health reasons. The ludicrousness of Governor Newsom and his fellow progressives agenda is just staggering. CA can’t produce even a fraction of the current electricity usage for the state but has to buy it on the market leading to exorbitant electricity rates here. And now he wants all cars, trucks and is trains to be electric by 2035. With little to no infrastructure to charge all these electric vehicles. And even if there was the infrastructure where is the electricity going to come from to charge all these vehicles? Oh, and they also phasing out natural gas water heaters and home furnaces in lieu of way less efficient electric models.
As a gas utility worker, I try to explain to people that the infrastructure is not capable of handling all the load that these delusional people think 😑 that it can handle.
This will be the most unpopular opinion here. Supplying Ca. and moving all Ca. supplies takes a lot of trains. Their emission standards are decades old. Maybe they could stand upgrading. 30 years ago you couldn’t see the mountains outside of LA on a clear day. You can now 95% of the time because of emission controls on cars and trucks. Trains are the next low hanging fruit. Progress is inevitable. There are days that Ca. produces more energy than it uses, (Solar, gas and nuclear). I’ll bet your state can’t compete with the natural resources or the 4th largest economy in the world. Quit whining, fix your neighborhood…Florida has its own issues.
I lived in those 2nd and 3rd degree SMOG alerts, breathed that thick brown air, watched a generation of lung disease slowly fade away. Yes, we've come a long way!
California should watch itself. he wiser states may boycotte the entirity of Cali into oblivion, Much to Cali's dismay, we need Chicago, Houston, mobile, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and Miami more than LA, SF, SD, and Sacramento. Sure it'll it our food supply, but only in terms of fruits.
Yall should actually read the proposed regulations. The way its written its more of a way to get companies to use tier 4 engines. The "ban" on anything not zero emissions doesnt happen until 2047.
Electrification of railroads is hardly a new idea. If you've travelled by rail in Europe the railways are extensively electrified, with the locomotives powered by an overhead line. It works quite well but the caveat is the high initial capital investment, but cheaper operating costs once it's up and running. As for battery locomotives, they're best for short distances like a yard switcher.
"Zero emmission"? These people have no foresight. This kind of tech is the farthest thing from zero emission of carbon neutral or whatever the heck the new buzzword is.
If this were to happen it would be overturned almost immediately. First off California nor any of the other 49 states has any regulations over the railroads. Second let's say the railroads take it upon themselves to participate in this idea. This means all electric locomotives will have to stay locally and the freight would have to dropped off at a staging yard then pick up to be transported the rest of the way causing bottleneck delays. When the delays start to effect the rest of the nation due to the amount of products imported to California ports, the government would step in and overturn the process.
Do you know realize the sheer amount on cargo flows in and out of California's ports? All the land-locked states rely on trains to transport goods between them and California's ports for import and export. In other words this huge expense to the railroads, primarily BNSF, will inevitably be passed on to their customers, in turn raising the price of goods all over the country.
@@gamerplayz-6394 We have the Gulf, East Coast, and Great Lakes, plus Mississippi river basin. While yes not all states have access to them, rail may just be a stepping stone to the nearest barge, or ship for import/export. LA/LB is only as big as it is thanks in part to Asia. Go around South America, and/or through Panama and you got the same excess to Asia....or ya know, have the cargo sent to the EU, transferred onto a larger ship that'll go through the Suez, or around Africa and boom, also Asia...
Electric traction works really well even in heavy coal and mineral haulage so that part isn't an issue. The issue is you can't expect an electrification program to happen that quickly, it takes time and a lot of money. also, does Calihave the power generation reserves necessary to make it happen? As usual, Cali lawmakers have focused on an end goal (and in this case, a worthy one) but have given zero thought as to whether it is possible in the timeframe given.
Here in michigan wood used for electricity is considered a renewable fuel, so all California needs to do is go back to wood fueled steam engines, problem solved.
They ought to ban wildfires whie they are at it, I’m tired of the smoke from fires in CA blowing into AZ!
Excellent idea.
Railroads are federally regulated and state law doesn’t apply to them. California can say whatever they want but it will never matter.
California got an exemption to create their own standards
@@IronBlockChef for cars not enter state commence
California and New York are two states that set regulations and generally the rest of the country end up following.
California may lose their EPA exemption if it affects interstate commerce. Battery technology isn’t up to the task of pulling heavy loads over long distances.
You're not the only one that sang this I've been saying that for years too and I got to agree .@@davidbeers5949
The state doesn't tell the railroad what to do. The railroad tells the state what they are going to do. 😉
No way this will happen.
I can see it now… electric train with 100 cars full of batteries pulling 10actual car. Until they catch fire. Or freeze up going over the Sierra’s in the winter. California what a state!
How about running out of power blocking intersections. Then, having to truck in a diesel generator to charge said batteries for two or three days to be able to run again.
Never heard of the third rail? Overhead wires are all over the place, CA should get in on the fun!
Exaxctly!
You might think you can see it, but in reality it isn’t primarily batteries. These will be electrified systems that use power lines. Evidence from other counties indicates they work very well. Yes evidence, not opinion.
@@eliasthienpont6330 I have heard of 3rd rails. I install power lines. We have had 3rd rail estimates/proposals. 42 years its been estimated to convert the state at 9 Billion dollars. Bart took 14 years and that was only 1 city. High speed rail is 20 years in and less than 10% construction complete. 3rd rails are great but not if the transmission lines are already overloaded, and 60% of electrical energy is powered by fossil fuel anyways. Your plan takes 20 years and 10s of billions to effectively relocate emmision to the powerplants
Why even use trains? Doesn't California have magical rainbows that can ship freight?
Unicorns
Rainbows and unicorn farts that's what keeps California in the lead😅
Hell ya we do along with that magic air curtain that keeps our atmosphere sealed off from the rest of the planet. You notice how none of the air from Arizona gets into CA . We burn the special expensive gas here we can't have Arizona air just blowing in. Here in CA we're going to save the planet all by ourselves by not making a single emission. In CA batteries charge themselves zero emissions produced. This state is totally refuckingdiculous ! CARB needs to go or pull their heads out of their ass but neither will happen.
Maybe you should examine your fantasies for what they are. The evidence of how this works is out there, available for you to find, if only you could do some basis research. It is amazing, that information is available that you fail to examine.
@PercivalFakeman the true irony of the green movement is the environmental burden all these batteries and plastics will pose in the not too distant future. A car from 1920 can sit in a field for 80 years and literally dissolve back into the earth it came from without a trace and with minimal environmental impact. A Tesla will remain recognizable for hundreds of years, but won't be usable for even a fraction of that time period. Lithium batteries are incredibly dangerous, toxic, and non recyclable. Creating wind turbines makes more carbon than it saves. The coal being burned to supply electricity for all this stuff is definitely not emissions zero. Quit lying to yourself and everyone else. There was a point where they were trying to fear monger over an imminent ice age. Now they've switched to global warming. The Earth has never had a stable temperature and was warmer before humans existed. Microplastics are going to kill us all well before our climate does, but there isn't a microplastics industry that can exploit guilty conscious eco warriors that think energy is plentiful or clean to produce.
Bottom line- if we want electric trains without fuel based generators, we DONT need to add batteries. Subways, streetcars, European trains all have electrified tracks or over head lines. Why is that not a better solution?
i am a railroad engineer, we have tested many eco freindly locomotives and so far none can perform like the diesel motors.
Lmfao zero emissions! What are they going to do about all of the foreign ships that come into California ports?
Add Aircraft to that list too
And add the pollution from lithium mining (oh wait, it doesn’t matter because China is doing that and not the USA)😂🤣😂
@@VernWatson-bd8yk Ban all of the transportation modes and then blame Trump for your failed policies.
i worked for both UP and BNSF. that state will be the death of this country. good luck with DEI hires 😂
Yup, I’m definitely moving to a better state than this shitty state
I worked for the AT&SF, UP and BNSF telecom departments in Los Angeles and I’ve seen the LNG locomotives come and go, the one hydrogen powered locomotive which never sent into service and when I retired in 2021 they were experimenting with multi power plant locos that had three Gen sets on each unit that would start up and shut down as needed. The main question with all this shit like it is with EV cars is where are they going go get the electric power from?
The best way to fix this kind of Stupidity is to give them exactly what they want and stop moving all trains in the state and just sit back and see how long they keep the brand of stupid.
How much dumber can this idiot place get.Agree with you 100% here just sit back and see how long it takes for them to start screaming they are not getting their goods delivered.
This has been done in every other country. There is only one kind of stupid in your opinion.
@@PercivalFakeman Electric trains are still augmented by diesel electrics in some way or shape. Quit using Europe & Japan as your go to example's 'till you understand the entirety of what's doing. Oh and Europe? Fuck 'em.
Amazingly shortsighted. This is what happens when you vote and legislate off of feelings and not reality
Can we sell California to Mexico and just be 49 states instead??????
CA is slowly bring absorbed back to Mexico. Trust me I’m a 69 year old lifelong resident.
I agree
Give California to Mexico, And let Alberta join the US.
Just shove it into the ocean
As usual another failed government blunder from California without the population calling them out. One hundred billion spent for a train we will never see, politicians telling California's that there is a surplus of hundreds of millions when in reality having a deficit in the billions, 95% cut from forest management than blames the resulting problem on climate. This party will never change.
Who gave ca any of these powers? Save the trains get rid of the govener
Ah yes California we can’t keep up with our current power consumption let’s add more
Bs narratives there has been 2x as much renewable + storage added to deal with it already.
They can get some diesel generators,
We can easily do this. Few experts dispute this, but you are entitled to your own flawed opinions.
@@PercivalFakeman PGE warned they were going to cut power to people 2 months ago because of the risk of fire. Maybe once California goes 2 years without rolling blackouts or the possibility of having to cut power we'll consider taking them seriously. Until then, saner people in the country will continue to laugh whenever Gaven Nuisance says things like "we need to get rid of combustion engines."
How stupid can they be diesel electric trains are the most efficient way to transport goods.
Its California where stupid is the norm
that is way too complicated for the politicians and their minions to comprehend.
@@AB-vc7ox Yeah, and it is important to keep politicians out of railroading. And with the Cali government trying to ban any locomotive that old is going to kill economical steam locomotive preservation in one way. Steam locomotor operations generate ECONOMY. People love them!
I am sick of these lunatic California politicians.
not the most efficient but the second most efficient, only thing better is electric trains with overhead wires. but it's never as easy as just replacing them and in California the cost to build wiring and new locomotives will instantly destroy any benifit
@@ronal8824 Almost all the significant freight railroad mileage in the US has been upgraded for double stacked containers, which make overhead wires a non-starter, not to mention the other issues of bridges and tunnels.
"... by 1980, efforts to improve rail economics led to the ability to stack containers on rail cars across America. This process - logically known as “double stacking” - allows a single train to carry as much freight as hundreds of trucks. Over the years, freight railroads have raised clearances, upgraded tunnels and strengthened rail lines throughout most of America’s nearly 140,000-mile freight rail network to accommodate double stacked intermodal trains. " ( Association of American Railroads )
California going after the original hybrids.
Locomotives waste the energy generated by dynamic braking.
I believe he was referring to the fact that these locomotives are hybrids....well diesel driven electric. Basically same idea. The unit already has batteries and only runs the diesel engine when needed
@@phlodel How else do you expect them to get down the grades burn up the brake shoes? Are you asking for another San Berdoo Disaster?
technically they aint hybrid due to not charging batteries for motive power, they are diesel electric
@@bjorn1583 nah they got batteries that's how they run no engine through my city at night to save noise. I think they only run on batteries for short periods on slight down grades and flats. I've definitely seen them rolling full speed no diesels running more than once in my life
Where are they getting all the electricity from?
From rainbows and unicorn farts!
They think it comes from the wall.
From out of state. If you move all potential environmental problems into someone else's back yard, you're saving the Earth, right?
@@negativeindustrial lmfao 🎯
Coal train enters chat 😂
No cars, no trucks, and no trains. How much freight can you haul on a bicycle?
20-30lbs if you're lucky, down hill in the best conditions...but they may also go after how much you exhale going uphill...
California legislators clearly have zero idea how freight works. The amount of energy that needs to be stored in batteries would be likely half the payload of the entire train. Diesel fuel oil is substantially more energy dense than any current battery tech, and there's no way those batteries will last long with the kind of current and voltage demands necessary to move large volumes of freight.
the current draw required will cause a lot of fires
the only real option is electification of the lines, which is quite the task in itself and not really possible imo well not by 2030 anyway
@@24zer0nd I really don't think it's feasible to electrify Donner Summit, Feather River Canyon, and some other areas.
Locomotives don't sit for days to be able to recharge batteries. It's common for trains to be recrewed and the power keeps moving. Downtime is not efficient. A little math and some good sense will prove that railroads are a blessing
This won’t be batteries. These are powered by electric third rail. It works. Do better.
The powers that be in CA don't understand math. Anything that only has one right answer does not compute...
@@PercivalFakeman Third rail works 'till it aint fully fenced, trucks bottomed out at crossing derail trains,get worn down, etc. What's you're background? "cuz you seem like the most annoying type of person: uneducated parrot(aka, spokesperson/lobbyist/influencer) OHHH, you're from Cali....RIGGGHTTTT....wait 'till Newsense goes after those drag cars...he cant even finish an intrastate HSR line, let alone state what fuel will provide the power to the catinary, or this mystic "third rail'. Do better. STFU.
No such thing as zero emissions…..
Modern trains are diesel electric, which means that they have a diesel engine as the prime mover that turns an on board electrical generator. The locomotive then uses that electricity to operate the electric drive motors. The only other choice is to build thousands of miles of overhead electric cables, new power supply lines, and switchyards along the tracks.
Back to the old steam powered locomotives then.
How do you make steam without a fire?
@@ij2750 That's beside the point. At this point it seems we're going backwards anyways.
@@ij2750 Nuclear, a whole other can of worms!
That state is the bane of our existence
@@ij2750 Plutonium, thorium, uranium, electric heaters....etc... c'mon now...be smart.
California has no say all railroads are federally regulated. California cannot do anything about it.
Facts. The railroads are private sector. Unlike trucks & cars which have to share the costs via tolls, and annual taxes, trains build, maintain & operate there own right of way. The only places rail becomes government is Amtrak, and any commuter/metro line.
Does that zero emissions count towards the harvesting of battery materials as well?
Privatre Jets as well?
Apparently not because thats coming from China and not the USA 🙄🙄🙄
As a former born and raised CA resident. Also a former over the road truck driver thats hauled said products out of CA. If I was the president of union pacific or bnsf I would just stop moving freight. Block the tracks coming in/out of the state. Also block some of the intersections to slow the truck traffic. It would most likely only last less then a month before the ca government has to pull back on the epa bs. B/c they are losing to much money from the ports and from the produce exports and the revenue they create. And from the people ready to tar and feather there asses
yep just dont go to the port, tell them to have fun with their thousands of containers
A great way to get the railways nationalised.
The utter stupidity of this law, trains are the lifeblood of the nation, imposing dumb ideology , what are they thinking 😳👍🇦🇺
They are thinking based on expertise using evidence. Your uneducated opinions don’t count.
How's the high speed train going CA? 25 years later and it's still not running...
Thank a politician and leftists.
Im sick of this state. What will happen is they will use the same diesel electric locos, but they will have to pull enough "Battery Cars" to run on electric only in Cali. Then fire up the diesel generator once they cross the border. Not sure if batteries have that capability but reality doesnt seem to stop these fascist
You are so wrong. That is pretty gullible if you believe that. Third rail trains are real.
@@PercivalFakeman You seem pretty stoked for the death trap that is third rail...has catinary ever crossed your mind? Baka.
@ o r overhead wires. Take your pick.
Aren't trains like, orders of magnitude more efficient than cars?
Yes, You are correct. There is no cheaper way to move freight.
And even diesel trains are far more environmentally friendly than even electric cars or trucks or whatever you’re trying to use like a bloody hyper loop or something
450 miles per gallon (per ton of freight carried) You car weighs two tons ergo you should be getting 225 mpg.
Even in the later years of steam, they were magnitudes better than 100 of of the most common diesel semi today. Just put a semi-trailer onto a specialized flatcar, or better yet, take the top of said semi trailer off & put it onto a train car, and poof. One large steam engine can pull hundred or so trucks worth of loads.
It's not like the dmv can stop them. Time for these companies to tell the state no
They say by US going zero emissions will affect the carbon numbers by a whopping .01%
Yes but our state will be free from oil and the cost of energy with fuel costs will be a thing of the past. We are already making great strides. It is based on some pretty smart people, not 7a educated opinions.
So what is California going to do with all of those container ships burning the bottom of the barrel oil. California doesn't have a probelm with their coastline import business.
Supreme court says carb is illegitimate so let’s see how it goes
Got sources? Love to see it if you can provide links(no I'm not one of *those* assholes, just want something that's not Christmas related to read.)
@ i watched a quick clip on fox news about it while i was waiting for my burger at a local food establishment.
The current Locomotives are electric drive, the Diesel runs a generator, from there it goes to throttle control then to the Traction Motors that drive the wheels.
Gavin what you burning to keep the lites on? Oh forgot that's fairy fart dust, Carbon 0!
It's usually the locomotives that can power up a small town in a crisis. Now the town and the surrounding cities will have to power up the train to get it down the tracks to the next town where they'll have to hook into the grid once again to charge up. When you're pulling several thousand tons of train and product it takes energy. A battery is not going to work with our current technology
Your state will never recover from this stupidity
This makes no sense to me. A state that has had electrical energy issues in the past is so hell bent on becoming fully electrical dependent.
No BUT we can let THEM GO ELECTRICITY FREE .
THAT WILL MAKE THEM A ENVIROMENTALLY
FREE AN CLEAN STATE . OH NO FIRE TO CANT BRUN WOOD ARE COAL
OLL WELL GOOD LUCK LIVING THERE.
GOD SPEED TO YOU ALL . 🥳🍭🦄🍦🤪
I honest to god feel like the railroads would not and do not care AT ALL. They help supply the state in MAJOR ways. As if sayin' "gEt RiD oF yOuR dIeSeL lOcOmOtIvEs!" is gonna do somethin' lol
I wish there was a laughing emoji on YT...but then I'm reminded of Facebook....so nope...just no I laughed at this. It's exactly what they're doing!
California can be influential and pushy. The railroad is a utility and part of the infrastructure of this country. California knows this but still keeps pushing this agenda. As a railroad employee I can tell you that it will definitely drive up the price of goods. The state will subsidize some of these hybrid locomotives. That means California will find a way to recoup that money. Maybe higher gas prices. We had hybrid units called “gensets”. They were light duty yard movers and weren’t that impressive. The only reason we got them was because California kept pushing to try them and gave the company tax breaks.
Hopefully the electric loco will not breakdown or run out of power at at rail crossings. I'm sure moving freight up and down the El Cajon pass will be no issue, nor clearing snow on Donner Pass. Good luck CA.
Interesting how a state reg board is setting rules for trains operating under FRA... this will be a SCOTUS issue at some point
Cajon pass, not El Cajon pass
@@CGT80 RELAX: El=The BFD!
As a lifelong train and rail fan, as well as somebody who’s absolutely loved trains of all kinds growing up as a kid and forming a critical part of my childhood, and as somebody who knows that diesel locomotives are not one of the main contributors to climate change, this genuinely has my blood boiling.
The Supreme Court is going to rule on wether a State can override Federal Standards.
Trains are already electric 😂
Locomotives are already HYBRID 🤦♂️🤷♂️ they are basically a diesel generator powering electric wheels.
Good luck getting a freight train moving without diesel engines.
To be devils advocate...it is done...though 2,296ft is not 1-2 miles....electrics do have one advantage aswell...better torque at low speeds. Just like small steam engines that couldn't get heavy trains start, but once they got going, could pull them all day long, except, backwards...
Funny, locomotives are electric, but it takes a diesel engine to create the electricity.😂😂😂
"All bad ideas originate in California", VDH
Go woke....go broke...congradulations commifornia
Newsom can bring vegetables to the border on mules and then we can put them on trains.
This is a violation of the interstate commerce clause
We had more electric trains in the 1920s than now. Locomotives with pantographs are fine battery locomotives are stupid.
I totally agree with that. There’s one railroad I remember.
The…
M I L W A U K E E R O A D.
I couldn’t resist saying that meme!
How about this jaded idea; stop all trains coming to California, load EVERYTHING in/on trucks and truck the products into California?! Load EVERYTHING into/on trucks and ship the products out of state, then transfer the loads to rail! BTW, increase shipping costs to cover the extra expenses to do so!
This totally won't end badly at all 😂
Recall Nutsom
He is out Jan. 2027, too expensive to have a recall election, I'll be glad when he is out although Kamala may run for Governor that might be worse.
Sounds like when caligula declared war on the ocean and sent his army to fight it.
They can declare whatever they want, reality will have the final say.
Seriously? What a bunch of fools! Really sad because California used to be such a nice place.
It's like they'll do anything but overhead electrification like a normal country.
Yeah, probably why they're wrecking locomotives, they know it's over for California as a Port State.
No problem. The 4014 "Big Boy" and numerous other non-diesel restored steam locomotives are ready to do the job.
Time to place charges on the San Andreas and set Commiefornia adrift.
I'd love to be on watch while you do so.
Kalifornia is broken.
Aint gonna happen...The while port of Long beach would shut down! No way to do this....
Gov Greasy Gavin Newsom needs to but out of the private sector unless they are doing something illegal.He is not the selector the people running the railroads are the selectors.
So when is the discussion of the hazardous waste produced by disposing and building Li Ion batteries going to take place? Cali Commi Politicians are good with polluting every one else just not their state.
absolutely ridiculous. diesel trains are still way more efficient than any battery truck
A railroad mechanic who fixed train engines explained to me the diesel engine converts power to electric, the electric powers the Traction motors at the axles to move the train forward and backwards...... Submarines with diesel engines ( the same engines were used in freight train engines) convert power to be stored in batteries to run silent when submerged.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was more about Tesla shares than the environment 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Diesel/electric is likely the most practical and efficient these trains will ever be. And I don't know why the CA farmers haven't moved back to Oklahoma (or elsewhere) yet. That truly sounds more ECO-friendly shipping produce from the center of the country and since CA needs water and electricity so badly, never having enough.
Good luck eating in Comiefornia. Railroads will ignore this!
In Europe i saw locomotives with electric wires overhead for power and they also had diesel engines to start when no power lines were available. not a hard issue to solve.
Why can a state make laws that affect all of the other states. For electrification, how is your grid going to handle the additional load?
This state is sooo out of control.... Thinking they can dictate the train industry. Can we please split this state in 1/2 east & west at the I5 already!? The west can slide off into the ocean at this point.
California ain’t gonna make railroads change as in Locomotives hav been rebuilt
It's already a damn hybrid. The diesel engine is essentially a big ass generator. Electric motors already drive the wheels. It takes THAT MUCH power to haul freight, enjoy the even higher cost of electricity throughout Cali. 🤦♂
not a hybrid, diesel electric theres a big difference and far better for the environment
@@bjorn1583 tomato tomato
I wonder if the other states can sue California?
They can. Remember when Cali tried to sue Texas?
The ONLY way electric power units will work is via overhead electric lines…or a third “hot” rail. Batteries will not be able to provide the required sustained power…🤦🏻♂️
madness.
Let them. Trains and trucks will just stop going eventually. No one will be able to afford what they sell and the local economy will collapse.
I’m a lifelong (Central) CA resident. The only reason I still reside here are health reasons. The ludicrousness of Governor Newsom and his fellow progressives agenda is just staggering. CA can’t produce even a fraction of the current electricity usage for the state but has to buy it on the market leading to exorbitant electricity rates here. And now he wants all cars, trucks and is trains to be electric by 2035. With little to no infrastructure to charge all these electric vehicles. And even if there was the infrastructure where is the electricity going to come from to charge all these vehicles? Oh, and they also phasing out natural gas water heaters and home furnaces in lieu of way less efficient electric models.
Cool. Why should we listen to communists? We already know all this. Why haven't you left?
As a gas utility worker, I try to explain to people that the infrastructure is not capable of handling all the load that these delusional people think 😑 that it can handle.
Yeah you guys will be BEGGING for fossil fuel generated electricity in 10 years or less.
Electric is just a big scam. And I know it, just like solar and wind, it’s low output but high maintenance for making power for the power grid.
Does that include steam power?
This will be the most unpopular opinion here. Supplying Ca. and moving all Ca. supplies takes a lot of trains. Their emission standards are decades old. Maybe they could stand upgrading. 30 years ago you couldn’t see the mountains outside of LA on a clear day. You can now 95% of the time because of emission controls on cars and trucks. Trains are the next low hanging fruit. Progress is inevitable. There are days that Ca. produces more energy than it uses, (Solar, gas and nuclear). I’ll bet your state can’t compete with the natural resources or the 4th largest economy in the world. Quit whining, fix your neighborhood…Florida has its own issues.
I lived in those 2nd and 3rd degree SMOG alerts, breathed that thick brown air, watched a generation of lung disease slowly fade away.
Yes, we've come a long way!
Good luck not going bankrupt like the Milwaukee Road! Better get that overhead wire up and order 6 and 10 axle E40s from GE 😂
When the wall's done go back east to the AZ border & start again working north / northwest. Keep going until you get to Oregon & make a hard left.
California should watch itself. he wiser states may boycotte the entirity of Cali into oblivion, Much to Cali's dismay, we need Chicago, Houston, mobile, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and Miami more than LA, SF, SD, and Sacramento. Sure it'll it our food supply, but only in terms of fruits.
Just stop shipping anything into California or through California.
Yall should actually read the proposed regulations. The way its written its more of a way to get companies to use tier 4 engines. The "ban" on anything not zero emissions doesnt happen until 2047.
Can we just have the big one so Az, Nv, are the coastal states? The place is worthless
I could see it being feasible, but in emergency situations nothing beats diesel
Electrification of railroads is hardly a new idea. If you've travelled by rail in Europe the railways are extensively electrified, with the locomotives powered by an overhead line. It works quite well but the caveat is the high initial capital investment, but cheaper operating costs once it's up and running. As for battery locomotives, they're best for short distances like a yard switcher.
"Zero emmission"? These people have no foresight. This kind of tech is the farthest thing from zero emission of carbon neutral or whatever the heck the new buzzword is.
If this were to happen it would be overturned almost immediately. First off California nor any of the other 49 states has any regulations over the railroads. Second let's say the railroads take it upon themselves to participate in this idea. This means all electric locomotives will have to stay locally and the freight would have to dropped off at a staging yard then pick up to be transported the rest of the way causing bottleneck delays. When the delays start to effect the rest of the nation due to the amount of products imported to California ports, the government would step in and overturn the process.
No problem, just a very large will call facility on the Nevada and Arizona borders, California pick your freight up there.
If they want to ruin their economics let them do long as it stays in that state
Do you know realize the sheer amount on cargo flows in and out of California's ports? All the land-locked states rely on trains to transport goods between them and California's ports for import and export. In other words this huge expense to the railroads, primarily BNSF, will inevitably be passed on to their customers, in turn raising the price of goods all over the country.
@gamerplayz-6394 Washington, Oregon, Mexico, Canada or simply telling California to fuck off work as well.
@@gamerplayz-6394 We have the Gulf, East Coast, and Great Lakes, plus Mississippi river basin. While yes not all states have access to them, rail may just be a stepping stone to the nearest barge, or ship for import/export. LA/LB is only as big as it is thanks in part to Asia. Go around South America, and/or through Panama and you got the same excess to Asia....or ya know, have the cargo sent to the EU, transferred onto a larger ship that'll go through the Suez, or around Africa and boom, also Asia...
Well they are now directly messing with the transportation of goods being shipped and need to be held accountable.
Electric traction works really well even in heavy coal and mineral haulage so that part isn't an issue. The issue is you can't expect an electrification program to happen that quickly, it takes time and a lot of money. also, does Calihave the power generation reserves necessary to make it happen? As usual, Cali lawmakers have focused on an end goal (and in this case, a worthy one) but have given zero thought as to whether it is possible in the timeframe given.
All the railroad has to do is not go to the port for a week and it would be overturned
This just in, no more oil fueled container ships in Ca. ports.
Here in michigan wood used for electricity is considered a renewable fuel, so all California needs to do is go back to wood fueled steam engines, problem solved.
I'm reminded of the show Petticoat Junction with the steam locomotive, in California I should add, at the beginning of the show.
Ya know..that'd work if they quit having fires...(n all seriousness, that'd be healthy for the local plant environment too)
@@BattleshipOrion Now, if only we could burn all that wood in the firebox instead of the forests!
they're already planning a new law .... NO AIRPLANES ARE ALLOWED TO FLY IN CALIFORNIAS AIR SPACE !! ... trust me, it'll happen