How to Repair a Damaged Main Shutoff Valve | Ask This Old House
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How to Repair a Damaged Main Shutoff Valve | Ask This Old House
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Several years go we had several single digit cold winter days. We were selling our family home, and it was unoccupied. I decided to check on it during the cold snap, and sure enough a pipe had burst on the 2nd floor. I (just barely) got the house main shut off (it was ancient - I was afraid of breaking it). We decided to up grade the in-house water main valve as part of the plumbing repairs. When the town came to shut off the water at the curb, the "curb cock" broke! The town worker started turning it, and suddenly it spun freely. The town had to dig up the sidewalk and replace it (which took a few days to arrange). Thank goodness we didn't need them to shut that off in an emergency!
At 0:45 he's like "gib me dat valve" then the other guy was like " Um, no"
We used this nitrogen freeze method on commercial and industrial steel and copper. We worked on an holder hospital replacing numerous valves and without major interruptions we froze 2” to 1/2” copper. Slick but need to plan ahead when you are limited on space, recommend not freeze numerous times at the same spot. We used marked tape stickers over our last freeze position. Also made emergency repairs to the traffic control bldg on the heating system.
same parts of our hospital where 100 years old None of the valves would hold
Question, what if you need to do something like this, but on a PVC pipe?
DarkWolf S I wouldn’t recommend it as cpvc is very brittle.
how to repair a valve. just buy a new one. LMAO. you guys are true genius
Richard is one bad dude. I've learned a lot from him over the years.
Wow! What a great idea. I’ve never heard of that.
did this all the time at our old hospital still have the kit
The city water department can't find my outside shutoff. I'm thinking of just to stop paying my bill so they will put in a better effort to find. I would like to change my indoor main from a gate to a ball valve.
If you didn't pay your bill, they'd be down like a flash.
Down in a flash to charge you for finding the valve.
They have already come out twice last summer.. they said they are gonna have to dig up my front yard and never came back
@@whitecastle3032 have you looked into changing that valve live without freezing or diverting flow? Im tempted to try it myself.
@@-flanders-8975 yeah I read that it can be done but regardless the utility company shutoff needs to be found incase of emergencies. I dont have any leaks or anything so its no biggie until it is
"Always winterize...your pipes!" - Arnold Schwarzenegger, Batman and Robin
Oh yes I remember that scene.
Mr Freeze
I like it how Kevin says “oh no, it doesn’t close”
Are sharkbites ball valves OK 2 use for the inside shutoff( replacing the damage gate valve?)
it’s 2 in the morning and I have no house, what am I doing
1337kakash1 hahahahahaha u r funny man
waisting your potential +
1337kakash1 dreaming of that better day!
There is something about learning that drags us in.
At least we didn't have to listen to Tom. He's so smug.
We used Freeze Plugs on Nuclear Piping Systems for repairs and modifications on Navy Nuclear vessels. Quite common, actually.
I have 2 stuck gate valves under my bathroom faucet,can I remove just the gate valve portion where it screws in after the packing nut with new same portion of a new gate valve because I don't want to solder?
They actually sell repair kits for that. Another choice would be to cut as close to the fitting as possible. If you have at least 1" or more of pipe left, you could slip on a Sharkbite shut off fitting. No soldering or compression nuts required. All you need is a clean pipe with a deburred end with no jagged edge.
I added another shut off valve a bit down the line to avoid this nightmare. My main shut off valve already doesn't close all the way, water still trickles even when it's fully shut. I'll get a pro to replace the main eventually, but for now, I don't have to worry.. hopefully.
Our water supplier here (municipal water company) discourages ball valves as the main shut off. They prefer gate valves. They say it's because turning off a ball valve very quickly can cause water hammer. I don't know if I buy that, but it's their reason.
Ball valves can cause water hammer, but they're blowing it way out of proportion. Take my house for instance. My water psi is 63 through a 3/4 inch line which feeds from a borough line that's 4". There gonna tell me that me turning off my 63psi in a 3/4 inch line is gonna cause enough water hammer in there line to rupture something? Ball valves are superior, some municipal governments are just retarded.
Caleb Burns I was also thinking just how often does sombody slam their main valve shut while the water is flowing unrestricted. If I am shutting off the water to my house, chances are that I am not running anything at the time of close the valve.
I saw a video of a guy slamming shut a 1/2 inch pex or pvc line, the pressure spike was so high it bent the needle on his pressure gauge.
th-cam.com/video/xoLmVFAFjn4/w-d-xo.html
yes that is true but turning on a ball valve fast is even worse...always open with a 5 count to fully open.
I HAVE A BROKEN INSIDE HOUSE MAIN SHUT OFF, I CANNOT GET A PLUMBER TO COME OUT AND DIG INTO THE HOLE TO GET TO THE MAIN SHUT OFF IN THE SIDE WALK. THEY DON'T WANT DO IT, WHO OR HOW CAN I GET SOMEONE TO COME OUT AND SHUT THE SIDEWALK SHUT OFF VALVE OFF FOR ME??THANK YOU, TOM
When will the Trethewey Cutaway Museum be opening?
I have one that didn't open back up.. 😕 I have to kinda bang it while the water to the street was off. It was a painful thing to learned
The valve that broke isnt actually a gate valve...its a globe valve. You can tell by the bulbous bulge in the outside of the body. They are still prone to breaking from time to time. Wire drawing from being partially opened or closed is a gate valves worst nightmare. Globe valves are designed to restrict flow without excess wear and can be taken apart and rebuilt at a later date. Freeze packs work great for certain applications provided the water is static. In really crazy situations ive cut copper off live and jammed a jet swet inside the copper and soldered s full port ball valve on...then quickly hauled the jet swet out and slowly closed the valve. It works. Sketchy though
Another cut away, don’t know any plumbers that solder the fitting while using freezer kit, usually compression fitting
They have a tool for that, it's a pipe plug, they make them in different sizes! If not, you can use dry ice with a towel!
Have a sharkbite valve handy if things go sideways.
0:22 I had a valve just like that one for my hose bib feed it had the same orange handle and the packing nut leaked
For residential, can I go to the city's meter to shut off their supply while I fix my valve?
No one is stopping you!
had this happen few weeks ago....city wanted to install new water meter.......gate valve broke before the meter...luckily it broke in the open position....ok not a big deal we will just shut off in the street and put a ball valve in except nobody knows where the curb valve is.. come to find out it was under about a foot of pavement.... so they dig it up and expose it ...IT IS STUCK and wont turn...im in northeast so the actual valve is about 4 feet down...so after a day of exevaction it finally got fixed...did not cost me anything but what a pain..
In my city, they would actually charge you for it since they would claim it's not their fault. They actually charge you twice, once to shut off water, once to turn it back on. Each time hundreds of dollars.
Still need to do this..
what if i shut my water off at the meter provided by the water company and it still runs out when i go to replace a toilet valve is that on the water company to fix
Call Mr. Freeze!
Very impressive.
Always learn something new here.
Used this method in large power utility production for 30 years on some very large fluid pipes, 28 to 30 inches.
I am a huge proponent of the ball valve. I am on well water. Where is my cut off valve if the master in the basement fails?
currently trying to find a Plummer\company that does pipe freezing can't find one🥺
Anyone know where I can buy the damaged part?
boy that info would have come in handy for me 6 years back!
Never heard of this freeze method. Does it have any chance of breaking the pipe like in the winter if you don’t drain an outdoors waterline? Valuable info in this video :-) Thanks!
No. Pipe's burst because ice forms and has no place to expand into. Here, the ice can expand back towards the city side. Probably a good idea to open a fixture in the house as well.
offshorebear No, opening a fixture in the house would just cause the water to flow right past your freezer device, and it would never freeze. The water needs to be stationary in the pipe, so it gets a chance to cool down.
never had a problem with freezing, but yeh, its scary. usually i take a wrench and squeeze the pipe a few inches over where im freezing, so the ball of ice doesnt shoot out
Richard be freezing the shit out of stuff!!
It its well water, if the main valve doesn't turn off, go to breaker panel turn off the pumps you might have more than 1. Turn off your water treatment system aswell. Since your at replacing the main valve, go ahead and replace all your valves and get a new well pump. As a carpenter I can't tell you how many times I walk up to an old valve and pray it operates.
Great video!
You can buy the tool to shut off the main from outside at some hardware stores ;)
Good information. 👍
They actually make a saddle valve now that you can add to the pipe after the fact. You screw the saddle over the pipe and it essentially has a hole saw that drives down into the pipe and then puts a closure in it. It's basically the same way that the city taps pressure mains when they have to add a new house service. It's not cheap but it works
What is even worse is when the shutoff brakes when opening. You finish all your plumbing work and when you thought you were done, no water. I had this issue when I was replacing bunch of water heaters in apartment units. Waster shutoffs has to be scheduled 2 days in advance, but cannot change main valve without shutting off whole building. Had to do emergency shutdown every time this happens and residents complained. Management had enough and fired me. LOL.
Freezing water line was not a option because main shutoff for the unit was only few inches from the riser. Freezing riser could been done to minimize affected units, but you cannot freeze water in a running pipe. :(
they fired you because the building did not have enough shutoffs?? that is bullshit....should have told them call the plumber at 120$ an hour next time..
What about low water pressure? A friend's old house in a historical district has water pressure which is very low. Hoses outside are almost useless, and having the clothes washer on means any indoor faucet ends up slowly pouring water. When I stay at their place, then return home, my own water pressure scares me.
Altenarian your friend probably has the old galvanized supply pipes with all kinds of buildup inside them.
Richard only specializes in full city water pressure, not low city water pressure.
Too bad Rich quickly mentioned the Sharkbite fitting at the end without any read discussion. You don't need to worry about standing water in the pipe when using one of these.
Many cities will not allow even licensed plumbers to shut off the city water valve, which seems crazy to me.
Union rules. Can't have ordinary citizens doing the job when they could take their time showing up so they can get overtime...
I guess we're lucky here in Georgia. It's only buried about 12 in deep and everybody I know has a pair channel locks
I am always very carefull when choosing ball valves. If anyone closes them to quickly while water is flowing, you get a perfect water hammer that distroys the pipe.
Real fun for the homeowner is having the union at the city pipe to house pipe fail. They understandably bury that line below the freeze line, however mine was buried all the way down to the bottom of the basement floor. Uh, not really needed for Georgia, pal! I had maybe an inch to play with, as the city line barely extended through the wall. If that repair had not worked, I would have had to call someone to dig out the line outside the house. $$$$
This video talks about replacing a gate valve with a ball valve, not repairing a gate valve.
Pro press tool and fittings a better choice.
Been there. Shutting off the main valve because the supply line to one of my toilets was leaking. I heard and felt the "click". Ugh
Always have 2 main shutoff valves!
The old 1920s era house we live in actually has 5 main water shutoff valves within the span of 3 feet from the foundation entry point. Always thought that was a little excessive, but now I'm thinking it's because one or more of them had failed in the past.
What is the valve breaks on a PVC pipe??
wow so good to know this!
I don’t understand how freezing your pipe doesn’t crack it due to expansion?
what if expending water brocke tube before main?
Best method, cut it in live with a pro press ball valve and leave the ball valve open then press it on and shut it.
Always great... But propress tool way too expensive
So, in other words, you need to get a plumber, there no way any regular joe is going buy one of these.
Interesting. Why doesn’t the freezing burst the pipe?
Martin J freezing just a small section leaves lots of room for expansion further down the pipe. Things only really burst if they’re worn pipes or frozen along a good length of the pipe.
sounds plausible. :)
Martin J because it's localized freezing.
Martin - as water cools, it contracts in volume. As it turns to ice, it continues to contract in volume until it reaches -4 degrees C. At that point it begins to expand. This, combined with the very localized application of the freezing, will typically prevent rupture of the pipe.
What? No, that's not what prevents rupture. Frozen pipe ruptures are often caused when the pipe freezes, and that growing ice plug extends towards a closed valve (faucet, toilet, etc), and the increasing pressure can't be relieved. With these systems, you're causing localized freezing near the main shutoff, but just a small little ice plug. Plus it has the whole rest of the house/building system to build pressure into, versus a single branch.
Amazing
I had a plumber put in a ball valve on my home and will pretty much swear by them going forward.
Use dry ice! It work for me!
The tool works but has limited applications and is higher liability for the plumbers especially when you dont know the contents of the pipe or even when its hot water. Most plumbers hire a pipe freezing service that uses liquid nitrogen -320F and will freeze anything from hot glycol to oil... I am personally one of them. We only do pipe freezing, nothing else, with a varying pipe range from 1/4 inch to 24 inch diameter pipes and contents. Everywhere from hospitals to houses use this service. Its not cheap but most buildings prefer a dedicated pipe freezer to come in as opposed to a plumber with one of the tools.... Its a specialized thing that can go wrong in so many ways, so they hire someone who only does this and know what to do when things go wrong.
always try the house side shutoff AFTER the meter first in case this happens you still have the street side as a last resort....if street side turns hard ..STOP and call the city just in case so they can turn off in the street...bad things can happen fast
What do you mean by the house side shutoff? If your water comes up through your basement, the only other shutoff valve besides the one at the street is at the meter where it comes up through the basement floor, right?
@@ibtarnineanything before the meter is considered street side.....after meter house side...
of all valve types that leak, gate vales take the cake
I got lucky when my pipes froze and split the ice kept the water from spraying everywhere. So I can see how this works.
While the main shut off is still working I like to preemptively put in a Shark Bite ball valve after it, because with a main gate valve its not "If" its going to break, it's "When" its going to.
George Crabtree Love this suggestion. Now I'll add it to my list 👍
I have sold thousands of gate valves to slow down the flow of water. Use a ball valve whenever possible especially at toilets.
It's always good to have a back up to the back up.
I once replaced a broken main on a relatives house while the water was still shooting out.
Can u give us a more detailed story?
That thumbnail
cool
Could you use sharkbite on your main.
Yes you can but any mechanical fitting should be left accessible for future service.
They said it got so cold, the plumber froze his pipe!
Freezing? Seems like the water pressure could blow that out.
I'll take that repair any day vs. Snaking a drain line and breaking the pipe. " that's a nightmare"
The other day I was fixing the drain from an upstairs toilet. I repeatedly told this individual "Do not use the toilet". I went downstairs and cut the pipe from the ceiling below. What did he do? He flushed a watery shit that all went in my mouth. I'm done with plumbing.
I’m startled by the lack of Madison Bars and Dutchman’s used in this video...
Who makes Toms cutaways?
In one clip he said he cut it himself.
Kevin
Wow -using ice?!?!
Just pro press a ballvalve on the main
weird that you need the council to come and shut off the water in Aus you just walk down the front of your property and turn off a tap at the metre
Hypothetically you can get one of those water meter keys and turn your service off yourself, but that comes with liability issues, especially if something goes wrong with the valve itself as you do it. Because you gotta think...do you want to be on the hook for them having to come out, dig that whole mess up and replace it? I wouldn't.
Only came to hear Richard say full city water pressure @:2:18
This guys secret power isn’t plumbing and have its cutaways. Kind of like how McDonald’s is a real estate mogul.
I hate to sounds like the armchair plumber, but fixing a broken main valve isn’t anywhere near my “worst nightmare”. As a licensed plumber, we are given a water key that we are free to use anywhere we want to. No call to the city or town necessary. I just go outside, turn the main off and go about fixing stuff. Is this not the case anywhere else?
Don't need to even be a plumber where I live, they sell them at the hardware store.
I work as a water distribution employee of a municipal public works and it is strictly against municipal code for anyone other than the municipality to turn any valves or controls owned by said municipality. This common in most cities where I'm from ( central Wisconsin).
In some areas, the valve is the property of the municipality as is in the video. So if a home owner goes in and closes the valve and manages to break it some how, the homeowner is on the hook to cover repair costs
I wrote in a note above that we needed our town to shut of municipal water to a house, and that valve broke when they did it. In the situation you describe, if you're turning the valve yourself and it breaks, do you fix it, or is that a town-owned asset that they end up fixing?
i mean its just an allen key anyway
If no special freezing tool is available, stick hot dog in pipe 🚰🌭
I don't think so ..lol.
this is the best way... And you get clean carpets too! th-cam.com/video/OP30okjpCko/w-d-xo.html
Some pipes are too small for that, others are too big, also with the pressure it comes through at, is it really such a good idea?
Integra DIY: that does not help if you are replacing a main valve and the water is flowing back down from the house.
If the pressure is too high or the pipe is large, try a Polish Sausage (extra spicy)
i have a leaver shut off.
Or if it's on city water, just turn it off with a water main wrench. In my house the main is hidden in the crawl space, so it's easier to just turn it off in the yard. Yay amazon...
The thumbnail at first looks like an arm thrust into a frozen bulkhead. It was rather unnerving at first.
Yeah... arm...
How much does a plumber charge for something like this? I can't help but think that every house with hundred year old valves should do this...
You could expect $500 or so - any more than that would be a ripoff unless there are issues - access, deteriorated pipe, galvanized mess, etc.
Freeze the pipe, then heat it up to sodder on a new valve, hmm, sounds very brave to me.
Aeron
You can’t freeze a pipe when there is even the slightest movement of water in the pipe.
NEVER screw with the street side shutoff before the meter..that is your last hope. always turn it off right after the meter. if you do not have one right after the meter put one in or call the plumber to do it.
any main shutoff coming in must be a gate valve or a ball valve....always go with the ball valve the one time you need it in emergency worth every penny.
I have a very old main shutoff and want to install a new one without touching the old one - so I am certainly going out to the road and turning off the water at the meter. Not gonna touch that old valve at all.
Wow.
My main is pvc. Good times 😞
Oof
You should upgrade it.
@@kalijasin yeee
most likely cpvc not pvc...pvc is not for pressure..
@@workingshlub8861 ahhh! Okay.
Thanks
Sharkbite ball valve.
At the time of this comment, 11 liquid metal ppl dislike.
Is Richards eye ok.
much easier method is to cut the pipe live, then slip on a sharkbite valve in the on position. Then close the valve. Yea ur gonna get wet, but its worth it..
CC Media LMFAO.
Went down to the Waterworks department to find out the size of curb stop wrench in needed to turn the water of with. The guy at the counter said I wasn't allowed to do that and it was a $200 fine if I did, I told him I bet him $200 he couldn't catch me doing turning it off. Screw them
The problem is if that curb stop is broken even before you touched it you now have to pay for the replacement of the curb stop. Many times they don’t work better not to toutch it if it’s an emergency the water company will come right out