BANNED For Cheating.

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2024
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  • เกม

ความคิดเห็น • 1.6K

  • @javierfernandez4896
    @javierfernandez4896 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1768

    Danny sending their errand boys (Gotham, Naka) to convince everybody that their site and star competition (Titled Tuesday) is clean and under control ... LOL

  • @yeetyfreety6938
    @yeetyfreety6938 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1588

    I like to imagine that Levi just appears in places, and that there was no logistics behind him getting there. He goes to bed, and then just suddenly wakes up somewhere new.

    • @jasonhargis5598
      @jasonhargis5598 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

      This explains a bunch

    • @ericley6479
      @ericley6479 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      Levi is the whoopsie guy from mortal kombat only in my youtube and for chess

    • @samiraperi467
      @samiraperi467 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      Or a Quantum Leap kinda thing.

    • @djrickmedley
      @djrickmedley 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

      He’s unlocked fast travel

    • @pernajuel9771
      @pernajuel9771 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

      He probably only spawns in when the camera starts rolling tbf

  • @coltith7356
    @coltith7356 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +243

    When you report someone on CS:GO and it says "report 1541514867146874858 submitted", the 1541514867146874857 previous reports were Kramnik flagging everyone who killed him as a cheater.

    • @Nitidus
      @Nitidus 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +30

      For the current state of CS2, 95% of his reports would be accurate.

    • @detrotsid
      @detrotsid 15 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Except CS:GO doesn't exist anymore, it had a rampant cheating problem, and its successor, CS2, also still has a rampant cheating problem. It's obvious to the eye test, like if you're playing against spinbots etc., but also at higher levels. Just last week, FPL banned their highest rated player for cheating.

    • @elsyvien
      @elsyvien 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@detrotsidnot FPL (free pro league) it was a faceit ban

  • @FocusBeam
    @FocusBeam 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1149

    Kramnik frantically trying to find the Infinity Stones to destroy half of Hikaru’s pieces

    • @Bolu-mg2ki
      @Bolu-mg2ki 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

      😂

    • @cC20417
      @cC20417 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      Lol

    • @GabrielRodrigues-gb5dt
      @GabrielRodrigues-gb5dt 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Kramnuk, the Mad Giant. Know I got attached to the nickname

  • @somerandomdudefes31
    @somerandomdudefes31 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +582

    The fact that Kramnik didn't even pretend to read the report before being upset with it... everyone needs someone in their life they can trust to tell them when they're losing their mind.

    • @Gefionius
      @Gefionius 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +42

      Kramnik automatically doesn’t like anything that was not authored by Kramnik

    • @noahblack914
      @noahblack914 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +37

      Right? There's no pleasing the dude. He wanted reports, they made a report, he won't even bother to look at it unless it means his own pedantic requirements. He thinks he's some sort of statistical authority just bc he's good at a board game.
      Maybe he should put his money where his mouth is and hire some independent statisticians to look at it.

    • @nonchablunt
      @nonchablunt 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Russians haven't had someone like this for 300 years.

    • @junaidahmad1492
      @junaidahmad1492 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It would be nicer if someone would say "I agree with point x that Kramnik made but disagree with point y". But as always, thinking is hard and hating is easier.

    • @Gefionius
      @Gefionius 15 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@junaidahmad1492 ironic then that Kramnik did not do this either, he made his criticisms prior to reading the report and his blog posts this entire time have been extremely dismissive of other people’s work. If one does not engage in reasonable debate and discussion, why would you expect that from others?

  • @digiscream
    @digiscream 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +414

    The important consideration, which none of the GMs seem to acknowledge, is...how much of the perception of cheating is accounted for by the higher-rated player having a bad day and not wanting to admit it (yes, even GMs)? I mean...I'm 1250 rapid, 1000 blitz and I hammered an 1800 in a blitz tournament earlier in the week. Obviously, he gave me loads of abuse, accused me of cheating and reported me, but...he made a series of blunders that an 800 would've been embarrassed by. Put simply, he was having a crap day, was playing on tilt and took it out on a player 800 points lower-rated.

    • @mikeanderson1722
      @mikeanderson1722 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +59

      Totally agree with this. Also factor in someone like me with 150 IQ and an attention deficit, who can go from scatterbrained to world beater and back in a very short amount of time. My rating is some kind of average between those two extremes and depending on when you play me, I might either be amazing or a moron.

    • @ahz4877
      @ahz4877 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

      Same thing happened to me even with less of a rating difference in a rapid game. I'm sometimes sharp with tactics and I was accused of cheating but I wasn't cheating nor I was banned.
      Conversely, last year I played 1 game at 98% and I wasn't accused of cheating nor was I cheating either, just played 1 brilliant Vienna game with white.

    • @LonnieDucote
      @LonnieDucote 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +26

      Yep. Elo rating is not an objective rating where 1 point means you never lose. It’s a way to determine who is more likely to win, and the more games they play the more likely the rating is to be accurate
      An 1800 can lose to a 1000 but it’s just incredibly unlikely, and as you showed sometimes that happens. If you played him 100 times it might only happen a few times but it will happen statistically

    • @lunatickoala
      @lunatickoala 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      Yeah, there's a couple of other important factors as well. Even if cheating isn't widespread, the *perception* that it is affects players mentally. Not being in a good mental state can really affect performance, causing a player to perform below their potential. Whether it's Levy facing a GM or a GM facing someone they think is cheating (even if they're not), there's a real chance that they perform worse. Thinking that there's cheaters everywhere causes people to start seeing ghosts.
      But the other factor is that when playing online, it's possible to play a lot of games. Even if cheating isn't widespread, play enough games and you will encounter some. Then things like confirmation bias and availability heuristic will then make it seem like there's a lot more than there are. That sort of mentality is ingrained into the psyche. In the wild, it's better to see a hundred bears that aren't there than to not see one that is.
      I wonder if people who started out playing online are better able to just brush off games where their opponent cheated and just move on without getting tilted by it.

    • @otimelyofficial8146
      @otimelyofficial8146 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +26

      @@mikeanderson1722bro your iq is not 150 stop the cap😂😂😂

  • @eccentricbass3730
    @eccentricbass3730 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2224

    Kramnik hasn’t only been mildly reckless. He has completely destroyed his reputation and credibility.

    • @heinmiiink3806
      @heinmiiink3806 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +51

      if you're talking about his own reputation, thats true

    • @donkarnage6986
      @donkarnage6986 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      and thats your opnion after a few tweets ?

    • @penknight8532
      @penknight8532 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      No such thing as bad publicity.
      More people know who he is now.

    • @anasmurshid3987
      @anasmurshid3987 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +140

      @@donkarnage6986 throwing accusations of cheating just because you feel like it is truly unpleasent. He accused Hikaru just because his rating is as near as the top engine althought he streams his games.

    • @Josharoo
      @Josharoo 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +67

      @@donkarnage6986 it hasn't been just a few tweets lol

  • @drunkenhobo8020
    @drunkenhobo8020 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +638

    He lied to us, this looks even more like a hostage situation than the previous video.

    • @nathanherr1473
      @nathanherr1473 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

      He said he would have a better set up next trip, not next video

    • @sergiob8501
      @sergiob8501 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      i just want to say thanks to germans for allowing him to still posting this video!❤

    • @zz4165
      @zz4165 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ------
      |

    • @kicRick
      @kicRick 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@sergiob8501Germans? 🧐

    • @auramyst3627
      @auramyst3627 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@sergiob8501dude what

  • @alphaportal97
    @alphaportal97 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +79

    Saying kramnik is mildly reckless, is like saying dumbledore spoke calmly to harry during the GoF meme

  • @mtn2704
    @mtn2704 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +546

    Levy never fails to have a beef with his barber

    • @timellis9293
      @timellis9293 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

      Edward Scissorhands?

    • @John-hh5kx
      @John-hh5kx 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      I have those problems also

    • @ryuk5673
      @ryuk5673 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      😂 👌

    • @johnnyappleseed4158
      @johnnyappleseed4158 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      I feel for the Jewish Kings out there that hair game is just wild

    • @taiiiz3969
      @taiiiz3969 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      What are the origins of the never fails bit?

  • @matthewdishman4831
    @matthewdishman4831 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +99

    14:32 17% refers to score, not winning percentage so its not 'win 1/6 games' as there will be some draws too

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

      It's so levy that he would just dismiss the page about scores then mischaracterise score for the rest of rhe video 😂
      7 losses 3 draws from 10 games doesn't seem so wild. Or 15 losses, 1 win, 4 draws from 20.

    • @robertopimenta9340
      @robertopimenta9340 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Omg thank you. Had to scroll a lot for that.

    • @JGMeador444
      @JGMeador444 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I was looking for this, because that really bothered me too. Hopefully he sees this.

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@frikai8321 why?

    • @matthewdishman4831
      @matthewdishman4831 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@frikai8321No because the y-axis is still the lower rated player even if they're in the same rating bucket.

  • @_JeffJeff_
    @_JeffJeff_ 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +388

    0:40
    "Vladimir Kramnik has been mildly reckless"
    MILDY?!?!????

    • @minchy9094
      @minchy9094 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      HMMMMM
      Nah what you on aboutttttt

    • @NoobSharkey
      @NoobSharkey 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      But there are streamers you MUST watch, I mean basicaly it is absolutely nessesary to watch them, literally you must do it, watching some streamers, that is what I really mean, some of them are must watch.
      You just literatuly lost your mind if you dont watch them, I mean it is sad but means you are completely crazy and you dont know what are you talking about when streaming yourself, if you dont watch them.
      And, another thing,Anish, what all those insuniations like "I dont watch streamers" mean? Can you just come out and tell openly that you hate the most prominent one? Just cone out and say this directly, I know you mean it. Just say this, dont hide under "I dont watch it" bs 🙂

    • @marquisdelafayette-xe1ht
      @marquisdelafayette-xe1ht 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yeah, that’s a mild understatement

    • @seikgames384
      @seikgames384 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Mildy is an interesting choice of word

    • @KaoticWhisper
      @KaoticWhisper 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Interesting....

  • @Kitsune_Chess1
    @Kitsune_Chess1 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +127

    Levy is so lucky that the kidnappers let him record so they can collect the money

    • @LastSamurai21
      @LastSamurai21 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      What do u mean?

    • @Kitsune_Chess1
      @Kitsune_Chess1 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@LastSamurai21 so u don’t get the lore? Ull understand later

    • @randomchessplayer.
      @randomchessplayer. 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      ​@@LastSamurai21He is in a different place so they make a joke like he's "kidnapped"

  • @agrimreaper2864
    @agrimreaper2864 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +37

    4:11 wait, Kramnik hasn’t even READ the report????? jfc

  • @AkhilVerghese
    @AkhilVerghese 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +28

    The biggest problem with this report is that underdog victories over the board are often the result of players just being underrated. Being underrated isn’t common online, for obvious reasons.

    • @strajder91
      @strajder91 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      This ☝️

  • @bitcoingrinding
    @bitcoingrinding 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +19

    This is actually a really great breakdown... kudos for Levy for taking time to go through this for us even during the vacation

    • @Dimensional_Duck
      @Dimensional_Duck 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Vacation?? He's being held hostage!!

  • @timepass4783
    @timepass4783 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +188

    Kramnik has now officially gone crazy

    • @NathanLipetz
      @NathanLipetz 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

      Just now?

    • @rdspam
      @rdspam 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      “now”? It’s been a while.

    • @penknight8532
      @penknight8532 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

      It sneaks up on you if you live long enough.
      You start to see it around 50 years of age.

    • @Chelo._.
      @Chelo._. 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@penknight8532 Biden is over 80 years old, but he's not going crazy like Kramnik. it is unlikely that we will see a crazy Biden at all, since only unworthy people lose their entire reputation in two months

    • @sk-ig4wt
      @sk-ig4wt 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      ​@@penknight8532 Anand is doing just fine probably the highest rated player in his age, he is 54 btw and still is sane

  • @_JeffJeff_
    @_JeffJeff_ 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +191

    Gotham never fails to title a TH-cam video: BANNED For Cheating

    • @yankee637
      @yankee637 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      BANNED For Cheating.

  • @mitchderise73
    @mitchderise73 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +86

    Technically this just means underdogs don't cheat significantly more than titled players

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Other than the super GMs everyone is an underdog to someone. Unless cheaters were the majority it would still result in more upsets not less.
      Unless you think titled players would cheat more/only against players rated 150-200 pts below them?

    • @rdspam
      @rdspam 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      “Technically” it means nothing. It’s a set of data. Your extrapolation of some conclusion does not make it “technical”, meaningful, or accurate.
      “We believe” in a potential interpretation, as this report correctly concludes, is the most you can state.
      Unless you can explain your technically supported methodology, the validated science behind it, and statistical data to support your conclusion.

    • @mitchderise73
      @mitchderise73 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I'm not actually making any claims or conclusions with this

    • @Littlelongy1
      @Littlelongy1 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

      I think your point is good. The majority of this report seems to be based on the assumption that players of lower rating will be more likely to cheat than people of higher rating.
      It doesn't find that correlation, but doesn't test the assumption to make sure it's valid, and instead just sort of assumes that it is when making their conclusion, right?

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      ​@@Littlelongy1it literally highlights the possibility its the higher rated players being the ones cheating at the start....
      Though it's a real leap to think someone would cheat but only against weaker opponents....
      Regardless the whole thing is based on the perception of weaker players cheating to beat stronger players in titled Tuesday ... That is what it's about...

  • @DexterHaven
    @DexterHaven 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +81

    A GM can make one bad move; that's all it takes to lose to a 2100 player.

    • @InVersionStudio
      @InVersionStudio 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Not, eventually...if you don't see that opportunity and play bad move too, you also can lose

    • @bruce2953
      @bruce2953 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      You haven't watched Fabi vs Nepo yet I see...

    • @InVersionStudio
      @InVersionStudio 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@bruce2953 ok, assuming that in one particular game there's drawish situation came after Nepo play ...very not ideal in mid game in important match. That's one game, and what about some genius,that after bad debut and average mid, starts playing like Magnus in endgame? Average probability of average 600, probably 🙂 And they even make strikes 40+ win. And that's just unrated play. Why? Is that Interesting, or not?

    • @sHaterred-vh7cs
      @sHaterred-vh7cs 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Look Magnus games he's always play crap openings in blitz and opponent has advantage but he still outplays not always

    • @InVersionStudio
      @InVersionStudio 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@sHaterred-vh7cs just one little problem. This 600 is not Magnus, definitely ☺️ Maybe Hikaru 🙂🤷 He like strike's

  • @kaszaspeter77
    @kaszaspeter77 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    One major flaw of this analysis is that it assumes only underdogs cheat. It is possible that the higher rated player cheated and it is possible that both of them cheated. Granted, the underdog winning against the higher rated through cheating is the most problematic scenario, but since we have seen how many times the underdog would win even OTB, it makes perfect sense for a higher rated to cheat as well, esp. if the rating difference is small.

    • @clappedbyben5438
      @clappedbyben5438 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Valid point. But by that standard you have to realize that a for example 2200 is going to only cheat against 2000 and not against higher rated players to make this make sense. That isnt the most logical conclusion so its a occams razor scenario and the most logical conclusion is cheating isnt as big of a problem as it is portrayed online.

    • @alexisperron-brault6009
      @alexisperron-brault6009 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If both people cheat, their score will be 50% on average. We don't see that here

    • @clappedbyben5438
      @clappedbyben5438 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@alexisperron-brault6009that also isn’t really valid or do you think 100% of titled players are cheating?

    • @alexisperron-brault6009
      @alexisperron-brault6009 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@clappedbyben5438 if everyone cheats, everyone will win about 50% of the time. This is not what we see.
      People might cheat only when it matters though (for one specific game)

    • @detrotsid
      @detrotsid 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@clappedbyben5438 Dunno if you can call Occam's razor on this, there simply isn't enough information to draw any solid logical conclusions.

  • @_JeffJeff_
    @_JeffJeff_ 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +107

    Kramnik is chronically online 💀

  • @timepass4783
    @timepass4783 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +113

    Title for Future reference:
    “BANNED for Cheating.”

    • @CheukTheGreatestOfEverything
      @CheukTheGreatestOfEverything 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      thanks, very helpful (still the same after 16 minutes)

    • @Arishtanxmi
      @Arishtanxmi 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      There’s a period at the end

    • @guest9836
      @guest9836 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      BANNED for Cheating.

    • @godeminoveou6224
      @godeminoveou6224 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Still the same

  • @brownie8090
    @brownie8090 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +134

    Kramnink’s respect rating went from 2700 to 103 real quick

    • @Sindamsc
      @Sindamsc 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      same with Naka after his Kick stream, tbh

    • @shamrock73
      @shamrock73 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ​@@SindamscWhat happened?

    • @justindavis9629
      @justindavis9629 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Sindamsc signing to Kick in general or did he say or do something while streaming over there? I’ve never seen a kick stream so very much out of the loop if it’s the latter.

    • @thenextgeneration9030
      @thenextgeneration9030 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Sindamsc whatt stream?

    • @sanjithd3343
      @sanjithd3343 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      @@shamrock73he had a stream where he was promoting gambling, whilst he was playing slots.

  • @ninjanoodle2674
    @ninjanoodle2674 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    There is one other possibility to explain the data: that cheating is so rampant among both the higher and lower rated players in any given online game that the cheating cancels each other out. It is a little like the steroid era in baseball where a lot of pitchers and hitters were both taking performance enhancing drugs.
    I think that the more definitive approach may be to evaluate how much players performed above/below their rating in OTB vs Online games. If players are consistently playing at a level well above their expected level given their current rating in online games, then that would be an interesting indicator of whether cheating is as prevalent as some would say.

    • @Odysseusf
      @Odysseusf 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Exactly. Plus that the cheaters are all underdogs is a self defeating assumption. By definition, cheaters cheat to win and gain ratings. So how can they both cheat and stay with very low ratings?

  • @shamrock73
    @shamrock73 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +29

    Kramnik writes a paragraph about how the report should be conducted. Then he doesn't read it.
    🍷🗿

  • @railspony
    @railspony 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    When I was 1180 I beat a 1750 in classical... People often "play down" when there is a big difference. They look at a position and think, "Well, he's not strong enough to punish me so I can just do this easy thing and then win and go to lunch" and instead they lose because I'm trying my very best.

  • @shukun-luxxy
    @shukun-luxxy 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    As someone who does academic business research and statistics all the time: the moment I saw the lack of methodology, correlation diagrams, ANOVA's, p-values, standard errors, and even the text not being symmetrically aligned, I knew that this "study" was not going to be anything to bet your money on.

  • @DiamondWolfX
    @DiamondWolfX 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Interesting story from Minecraft speedrunning: Player Dream was accused and convicted of cheating; it later turned out his accuser knew what to look for because he himself was cheating.
    Makes me wonder if Kramnik is playing in an ...interesting manner.

  • @alessandragreco1342
    @alessandragreco1342 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +156

    I'm a simple man, I see Gotham, I click

    • @RaniaIsAwesome
      @RaniaIsAwesome 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +15

      @@_JeffJeff_ I'm a simple man, I see a simple man meme, I want to take part.

    • @Cage66666
      @Cage66666 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Roll*

    • @Lydown1825
      @Lydown1825 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Cage66666 ?

    • @Pirhah
      @Pirhah 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      I never fail to be a simple man and see Gotham

    • @michaelmassaro4375
      @michaelmassaro4375 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Might as well Levy has Good Stuff dam we need another Candidates tournament or other for more recaps they were fun 😅

  • @eitanporat9892
    @eitanporat9892 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    Hi Levy, regarding the P-value comment, I think it is relevant for hypothesis testing. You could model the distribution of players as a mix of "noncheating players" and "cheating players" and then run a statistical test. There is much more work to be conducted here. Also, there are better methods than ELO, Glicko might work better idk. Sorry for nerding out 🤓

  • @Anonymous-iz4yc
    @Anonymous-iz4yc 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    "This video very interesting" *Block and Report* - Kramnik 2024

  • @tallblondedude
    @tallblondedude 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    After reading the report I am not fully convinced on it. I would have loved to see an F score for the classical FIDE because that looked somewhat distinct. This is also working on the assumption that the lack of distinction in win rates is sufficient, which i'm not fully convinced was sufficiently shown, is a necessary sign. If cheating functions independently of rating, the effect would be totally masked; perhaps higher rated players see a "miracle" move that bails them out vs lower players and can play it off due to their rating, while lower players are more conservative. I think publishing a distribution (without specifics) of found cheater's ratings would be beneficial.

  • @DustinHorvath1987
    @DustinHorvath1987 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    My takeaway from this entire video is the FIDE rating system isn't rating players very accurately, and the datasets are not an accurate representation of players' abilities.

    • @detrotsid
      @detrotsid 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Strictly speaking, nothing rates players _very accurately_, all rating systems just look at your results and make some educated-ish guesses. Better sample sizes give better predictions.

  • @pauloriley4020
    @pauloriley4020 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Gotham: What many people don't know about me is that I actually have a PhD in Clickbait.

  • @ryzekagi
    @ryzekagi 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +38

    "mildly reckless"

  • @methanbreather
    @methanbreather 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    interesting conclusion at the 2min mark.
    You could also say: higher rated players are more likely to cheat online, because they have more to lose.

  • @whateverwhocares3805
    @whateverwhocares3805 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    I think this report shows the difference in the stress in online versus over the board. The better player tends to win more online because there’s less stress causing variance in skill. Maybe that’s an oversimplification but it stands to reason.

  • @gryllodea
    @gryllodea 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    17% score doesn't mean that an underdog would win 1/6 of the games. Maybe it's 26% for a draw and 4% for a win, and the result is 0.04×1 + 0.26×0.5 = 0.17.

  • @Idontwanttoexistt
    @Idontwanttoexistt 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    Kramnik really said "i ain't reading all that"

  • @builderdog3875
    @builderdog3875 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    Levi never fails to make me feel like a mere statistic as he click baits me

  • @InfiniteQuest86
    @InfiniteQuest86 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    When comparing two groups like this, confidence intervals are way more important than p value which is to compare against the null hypothesis. So, unless you can come up with what should happen by chance, then it's going to be more accurate to use confidence intervals. But yeah there's a missing piece without that.

    • @jennymulholland4319
      @jennymulholland4319 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Since chess is not a game of chance (except whether you play as white or black) I think it's not possible to determine what would happen by chance. You can only look at averages.
      Maybe the closest bit of information you could get to "what would happen by chance" would be seeing how often strong bots win against themselves as opposed to draw. Since the theory is that chess played perfectly should always end in a draw, so anything else that happens (when players are bots) will be by chance as it were.

    • @Odysseusf
      @Odysseusf 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      My friend, you’re the only person who knows Statistics in the comments section. Everybody else is so uninformed with the basics of 2-sample hypothesis testing 😂. Good job. What is your background in Stats?

    • @InfiniteQuest86
      @InfiniteQuest86 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Odysseusf Haha, kind of. I majored in math so I have some stats. Mostly I got brushed up on it when going into more data science lately.

    • @InfiniteQuest86
      @InfiniteQuest86 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Odysseusf I actually posted a much longer response explaining in more detail, which seems to be taken down. Weird.

    • @InfiniteQuest86
      @InfiniteQuest86 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@jennymulholland4319 We say by chance when we mean the null hypothesis which is that no cheating occurred. So if you have a 2200 play a 2500, then they should win 10% of the time by chance (as opposed to skill you could think of it). This is based on rating. Of course rating has to be accurate to know this percentage, which it is admitted that the OTB ratings are not right. To do the p-test you have to stay within on group. So you look at the 2200s vs. 2500s in online only and see if it is more than 10%. The p-value tells you the likelihood that what we saw happen was described by cheating in our case as opposed to "chance." It takes into account how hard it is to achieve and how powerful your sample is. So if you only had one game of a 2200 vs. a 2500, and the 2200 won, you wouldn't claim cheating even though the 2200s won 100% of the games. That could happen by chance. It could be the 10% since it was only one game. But if you had thousands of games and the 2200s won even 30% of the time, that's huge, way bigger than expected if cheating wasn't occurring. Also think if 2200s only typically won 0.05% of the time, then even seeing a single win would indicate cheating because it should be so rare. Anyway, that's what's meant by chance, not that the game has a random element to it. The other problem with this approach is that we are running too many tests. Every comparison is another test, so comparing 2500s to 2400s, 2500s to 2300s, 2500s to 2200s, etc. By chance, one of them is going to indicate cheating has occurred. If you flip a coin a million times, your going to see 100 heads in a row at some point just by chance. When you go digging for results, you're bound to find them even if they aren't there.

  • @ludodotho762
    @ludodotho762 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

    Gotta love how Kramnik got 69 downvotes lol

  • @Fiery-Cat-Art
    @Fiery-Cat-Art 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Kramnik has not only destroyed his reputation, but has slowly begun to chip away at others’.

  • @rajroushan6565
    @rajroushan6565 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    This the reason Indian GM avoid playing online, just play OTB and win everything who cares about title tuesday anyway.

    • @harishjoshi-wf2xe
      @harishjoshi-wf2xe 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      🤡

    • @Secretarian
      @Secretarian 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      True that. OTB is and always will be the heartbeat of chess.

  • @Jasonf3
    @Jasonf3 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +13

    How long have you been held hostage in Hikaru's ceiling?

  • @ippo4502
    @ippo4502 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    The lights look like Levy has cat ears

  • @Willsczk
    @Willsczk 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Mildly reckless is the understatement of the year...

  • @JDeLauer
    @JDeLauer 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    I still laugh whenever I talk about chess with people and they’ll be shocked that you can cheat at chess.

  • @ItsAlex-dw4uy
    @ItsAlex-dw4uy 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

    levy never fails to be held hostage

  • @Multiverseofcreativity
    @Multiverseofcreativity 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I really like the vibe of your travel set up. It makes it feel like I’m just watching someone on a FaceTime.

  • @MurtazaPirani
    @MurtazaPirani 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    A lot of you are seeing the name behind the comment, and not focusing on the comment Kramnik left. While I also believe he goes overboard when assuming people are cheating, he has a very valid point on the actual stats being used.
    Let's not be quick to dismiss the point being made just because the person making it has made less valid points in the past.

  • @BlackRose3610
    @BlackRose3610 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Kramnik going how Bobby did

  • @koopercupp523
    @koopercupp523 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

    in my opinion ANYONE that types like THIS, is emotionally unhinged

  • @thelastnoise9210
    @thelastnoise9210 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    For some odd reason I wanna watch these upset games.
    The underdog winning that 17% chance.

  • @DemoniqueLewis
    @DemoniqueLewis 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I agree with your take on where are the P-Values and the other parts of a statistical examination that would provide context.

  • @ancientknight9805
    @ancientknight9805 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +20

    Levy finally using his stats degree😂😂😂

    • @quill444
      @quill444 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Levy: _"What are the P Values?"_
      Magnus: _"You mean Probability?"_
      Hikaru: _"I'm Pushing P!"_
      Kramnik: _"It's P as in Psychosis . . ."_ - j q t -

  • @osmarsanchez5165
    @osmarsanchez5165 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I wonder if at least part of the reason the higher ranked player performs better in titled Tuesday than OTB is just because of facing less pressure and therefore making fewer blunders, errors, etc. It definitely seems a likely explanation

    • @Odysseusf
      @Odysseusf 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Plus these highly rated players contain more cheaters and engines don’t blunder

  • @nickmeeker9399
    @nickmeeker9399 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    If we're to assume that the majority of cheating cases in TT are instances of so-called "smart cheating" (a bit of engine use here and there), then I think underdog win percentage is a poor proxy for rates of cheating. I think it's probably equally (if not more) likely that the higher rated player would cheat just to "lock in" a win against a weaker (but still strong enough to be challenging) opponent. It could also be that the weaker player is unlikely to cheat enough to "close the gap" against the stronger player, for fear of getting caught.

    • @clappedbyben5438
      @clappedbyben5438 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Generally valid, but on the point of the higher player cheating you lost me. You realize that basically all of the stronger players are also weaker players to someone else. If they are cheating are they just cheating against lower rated opponents? Does that make sense? Or are you saying more then 70% of all players are just blatantly smart cheating?

  • @cerebralisk
    @cerebralisk 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    i feel like there's a transmissable thing from cheating in video game speedruns, where a lot of the cheating is actually people who are good enough to do something legit cheating to do it with less time invested. someone who is good at chess might cheat to beat someone who is worse just on feeling entitled to victory without 'wasting their time'

  • @radleytimajo
    @radleytimajo 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    as someone taking the AP Statistics exam soon, 21:57 genuinely jumpscared me

  • @mrfotball9261
    @mrfotball9261 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +18

    Levy never fails to be Banned in Chess

  • @Peenos
    @Peenos 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    beginning pause was so good I thought the video wasn't playing

  • @TigerSharkMLB
    @TigerSharkMLB 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Hostage simulator

  • @flookaraz
    @flookaraz 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    The craziest thing in this video is Levy saying Kramnik was "mildly" reckless. Sheesh.

    • @muratsinanengin9773
      @muratsinanengin9773 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      He was trying to be polite methinks.

    • @chunklum3636
      @chunklum3636 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      what has Kramnik been doing and where can I read or watch about it?

    • @flookaraz
      @flookaraz 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@chunklum3636 Gotham has actually covered it quite extensively on this channel, although i know he doesn't title his videos too accurately so it might be hard to find. "Cheating" / "kramnik" should be in the titles though

    • @chunklum3636
      @chunklum3636 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@flookaraz thanks for the help

  • @HeartFallsApart
    @HeartFallsApart 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    "traveling?" Everyone knows you enjoy getting kidnapped.

  • @Random_starwars_and_chess_nerd
    @Random_starwars_and_chess_nerd 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    You know i needed this 3 months ago for my school project

  • @m7areb
    @m7areb 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    my brain isnt braining

  • @Gelo19
    @Gelo19 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Kramnik: You cheat
    Hikaru: the 3rd highest rated player🗿

    • @harishjoshi-wf2xe
      @harishjoshi-wf2xe 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      highest performance rating this year

  • @natvanrooyen
    @natvanrooyen 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think an important thing here is also the coverage, we see more titled Tuesday than over the board games

  • @ethan073
    @ethan073 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Mildly reckless is an incredible understatement 🤣

  • @Josharoo
    @Josharoo 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    kramnik probably the most unlikable person in chess.

    • @nuwandalton
      @nuwandalton 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Not a chance with Carlsen and Kasparov around...
      Not to mention Firouzja

    • @Josharoo
      @Josharoo 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      @@nuwandalton maybe stupidest take i've ever read

    • @nuwandalton
      @nuwandalton 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@JosharooIs that so? Don't be so harsh with yourself.
      You're stupid, granted, but not THAT stupid.
      Now run along, fanboy

    • @vaibhavvb9898
      @vaibhavvb9898 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      It used to be hikaru after that I literally don’t care thing. Looks like that keeps changing with time.

  • @Leventmaster
    @Leventmaster 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    No.

  • @Veptis
    @Veptis 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    these data visualizations are beautiful - I would love to see more of this. maybe even plot some of my own ideas.

  • @Flanksy
    @Flanksy 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The major issue with their analysis is the lack of like for like data sets. It means their supposed variable is not controlled.
    This would be genuinely interesting if they analysed Titled Tuesday results vs a contolled similar sized data set of players playing normally (not in titled tuesday). That way only one variable is being altered.
    FIDE results are simply not stable enough or large data enough for this kind of analysis. Chess website that published this have an extremely stable data set because of the 1000000s of games played, whereas FIDE played too little in this format and new players affect the results too a far greater degree within that data set.

  • @timepass4783
    @timepass4783 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    GM Gotham Soon!

    • @Hiiigh_Yoshi
      @Hiiigh_Yoshi 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Why do you comment so much

    • @literallysweden
      @literallysweden 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Hiiigh_Yoshihe probably likes the notification pop up

  • @jukezy46
    @jukezy46 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    Gotham already had to cheat to get to gm?? Smh

    • @Bolu-mg2ki
      @Bolu-mg2ki 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Kiddo

  • @AMReyVenz
    @AMReyVenz 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The simple fact of the matter is; if you respect chess, if you really are trying to be your personal best, you would never cheat. To everyone else, shame on you for your actions and you should go cheat elsewhere, not Chess. This is a game for those who really respect the game and intend to uncover our own mental abilities in a world that coddles peoples feelings.

  • @andrea3v
    @andrea3v 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The problem is: if the evaluation system is different in online vs over the board you end up comparing apples with oranges. And there may be some corrections you can make statistically but you need a very large sample size. Now. on line might be easier to get lots of data but on 1on1 games? Not sure. Btw if I hire a data scientist/analyst and he plots bargraphs with no standard deviation or error I’m gonna fire him on the spot.

  • @ChessMusclesBro
    @ChessMusclesBro 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Gotham - was your barber blind bro? Cause wowwwwwww 😅

  • @roanoke999
    @roanoke999 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    stop spamming first

  • @MrSweet-ye6bs
    @MrSweet-ye6bs 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    That -6% is saying that the lower rated players 2600-2749 are losing more to players over 2750 and higher in titled tuesday. It means the highest rated players are possibly cheating

    • @MrSweet-ye6bs
      @MrSweet-ye6bs 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      You can possibly extrapolate this into 6% of moves are played with assistance, like you said being smart with cheating. A 30 move game may have 1 or 2 moves that were engines.

  • @DoddyIshamel
    @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    When you are talking about the rating difference you seem to have forgotten they are using Fide blitz for both ....

  • @JBM118
    @JBM118 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    Let me guess it’s a Clickbait

    • @Bolu-mg2ki
      @Bolu-mg2ki 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Fool watch the video

    • @Nitidus
      @Nitidus 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      There are no clickbaits on this channel 😀
      There is no war in Ba Sing Se 😐

  • @starmj5247
    @starmj5247 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Levy never fails to cheat.

  • @Flamingcloud083
    @Flamingcloud083 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The problem with these stats are that the FIDE ratings are so inaccurate due to lack of games that they cant really be used as an accurate date set.

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It's the only one there us ..

    • @Flamingcloud083
      @Flamingcloud083 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@DoddyIshamel could check only players with enough recent fide blitz games to have confidence that their rating is accurate

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @Flamingcloud083 then the sample size would be much smaller.
      In any case as pointed out the lack of games for players gives them lower rating which should create more underdog results online. So it would only make the results even more stark.

    • @jennymulholland4319
      @jennymulholland4319 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The addendum said they only used games where players' FIDE blitz ratings were based on at least 50 games and at least one game in the last year. I do wonder how many games this excluded then.

  • @TheSwimmoney
    @TheSwimmoney 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I'd love for you to come and do a UK tour or at least have a date in the north and the Midlands as well as London.

  • @Prometheus4096
    @Prometheus4096 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    It just means higher rated players cheat more than lower rated ones.

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Even though they are the same people? They cheat when they are higher rated and stop cheating when rhey are lower rated?

    • @Prometheus4096
      @Prometheus4096 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@DoddyIshamel wut?

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Prometheus4096 literally what I said. Do you mean they cheat against weaker opponents but not stronger?

    • @Prometheus4096
      @Prometheus4096 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@DoddyIshamel No. I meant literally what I said. You think that higher rated players are just 1 person? And that lower rated people are also just one person? And that these are both the same person?

    • @DoddyIshamel
      @DoddyIshamel 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @Prometheus4096 Every "higher rated person" is the "lower rated person" in other games....
      Unless they are Magnus.

  • @CopperGames1
    @CopperGames1 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Not first

  • @templarroystonofvasey
    @templarroystonofvasey 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    There's also the more obvious lack of pressure on Titled Tuesday compared to a real-world tournament. i/e/ Lower rated players just have less pressure and the top palyers have less pressure too online. "Correlation does not equal causation".

  • @psymar
    @psymar 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    If underdogs are performing better over the board that probably means over the board blitz ratings are less accurate, which seems reasonable given there are fewer ratings over the board.

  • @SplashCap
    @SplashCap 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    First

    • @Samurai24200
      @Samurai24200 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      NPC comment, no one cares

    • @Tk_IMPERIUS
      @Tk_IMPERIUS 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      What a tool, finish the video first.

    • @Tk_IMPERIUS
      @Tk_IMPERIUS 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      What a tool. Finish the video first.

    • @SplashCap
      @SplashCap 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Samurai24200 ok

    • @Tk_IMPERIUS
      @Tk_IMPERIUS 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      What a tool. Finish the video first.

  • @sathtyler
    @sathtyler 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    One thing that really should be mentioned, and Gotham should understand given his degree, is that underdogs losing more is not actually indicative of less cheating. It could also mean that the favorites are able to cheat without getting caught, hence the larger discrepancy. The fact that the gap is larger online likely points towards the top players cheating more, not the bottom players cheating less.

  • @connorskudlarek8598
    @connorskudlarek8598 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    What it tells me is that titled players play best when they aren't travelling and don't have to physically interact with the board.
    A GM can easily get frazzled by going to grab a piece and knocking it over. Happens less with a mouse.

  • @djinn666
    @djinn666 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Regarding the difference in win rates, I would expect players to spend significantly more time preparing for an over-the-board event, and knowing who they might play against, they'd have an advantage.
    For example, there's a much higher chance that a low rated player has prepared against Kramnik than vice versa. There's just so many more low rated players that he couldn't possibly prepare against them all. Whereas for the low-rated player, there's a decent chance that if they win the earlier games, then they'd be up against Kramnik.

  • @objective_psychology
    @objective_psychology 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Kramnik will find a way to disagree with literally anything that doesn't match his initial bias, giving any reason he can

  • @TodorHristoski
    @TodorHristoski 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    That pic of Levy in that FIDE ranking list got me😂

  • @Cookies_z
    @Cookies_z 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Nah, "mildly reckless" is crazy 💀

  • @apocalypseap
    @apocalypseap 18 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I'm not convinced by this report simply because people play a lot more online than they do over the board. It's just way more accessible. Of course people are going to be underrated over the board when they play so much online comparatively and skew the underdog averages OTB. In reality, those players are better than their rating OTB. A lot more than online.
    This means their online rating is MORE ACCURATE so of course there'd be less, and a few people could get away with some cheating here and there if they use flawed comparisons like this.

  • @matt-d-webb
    @matt-d-webb 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great summary!! Enjoy the rest of your travels.
    It was nice to hear you politey handle things Kramnik is saying - I used to respect his views and insights on the game but now the guy has completely lost his marbles! Reputation self destruction, very sad to see.