ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Super Smash Bros Melee has never been patched, or so you might think! Today I want to tell you about why the world abandoned melee's only balance patch, Pal Melee. The people who played on it and why in the current day no ones uses it.
➤ Twitter: / chaler_
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#SSBM #Smash #chaler
5:12 while this is true. It’s kinda meaningless. Who is to say that those iconic moments wouldn’t have been replaced by different iconic moments? In an alternate universe where PAL is the standard, perhaps there are loads of iconic moments that are only possible because someone was able to survive a Fox up smash or Falco dair. Without being able to observe that alternate course of history, it’s impossible to know which world has the greater quality and quantity of iconic moments.
Great video though!
The world is obviously better off with late falco dairs
very true point! I guess only doctor strange would be able to see all the possible realities
@@nothanksthough ah yes that's why nobody else has anything remotely like that
Pfft
we've seen brawl though, 4, and ultimate. So we kinda have seen the "iconic" moments of that defensive playstyle. I dont need a alternate course of history to figure out they made the game worse. Dont trip on the way out.
@@MikeyCyan ...defensive? Do you really think that making it so fox's up smash doesn't kill at 85 and putting Marth dair in line with everyone else's is suddenly turning the game into brawl?
Don't worry about us on the way out, you stay tf in there
Rovaniemi (Finnish city) players actually played NTSC and wobble bans before Europe ever switched away from PAL or so I've heard. The game is so decentralised that saying "Finland was the last country to abandon PAL" only really refers to making the final, official decision.
Samus extended grapple is removed in PAL.
Top tier players don't want nerfs. Its sad but that simple. Street fighter 3 3rd strike had the same issue where arcade version 990608 fixes unblockables but the community shunned it.
Despite being an American who's never played Melee (it's not like I could've done anything about being four years old when Brawl came out back in 2008), I can't help but feel that going with a *less balanced* version of Melee (even if it's not necessarily more fun) is backwards. On the off chance Nintendo ever re-releases Melee for, say, Switch, unless they're lazy (which is not out of the question), *all regions* will get PAL's balance changes and make the *entire* competitive scene ignore it.
just like they did with super mario 64 on the 3d all stars game, they removed the backwards longjump
Balance doesnt always equate to fun, especially if you get balance via removing things.
PAL turned losing matchups into slightly less losing matchups for bad characters, while removing parts of the characters that MOST players use.
The good characters still win but they just have less fun doing it.
If PAL had a focus of buffing bad characters instead of nerfing good characters, there would have been a good debate between NTSC and PAL.
Best analogy for NTSC is you getting a cookie and your sibling not getting one.
An ideal balance patch would give your sibling a cookie so you both have one.
PAL takes part of your cookie away but your sibling still doesn't get any, so what's even the benefit.
@@jakefromstatefarm6969 Definitely an ideal balance patch would simply be to buff the low tiers to compete with the high tiers, aka. giving everyone a cookie so everyone is happy.
Yeah no, from your description PAL just sounds genuinely better, but America and Japan are both by far the biggest gaming hubs, and known for being egocentric, so not surprising they would push for the version they were used to and had more access to, and would win the fight for it.
I’m an American who always wanted to travel to Europe to play on PAL. I still want to travel to Europe but it’s sad to see PAL gone 😢
This made me realize that even if we basically got Melee HD with everything else mostly the same, Nintendo would want to patch things and nerf/buff characters to make thing more balanced/how they likely actually intended things to go. And Melee players/tourney players would all but reject it because of a top tier getting nerfed, or because any frame data got changed that messes up their muscle memory of almost just zoning out and autoplaying their character, or a lot of other copium I hear at times from players who would quit if even one thing with Melee got changed in the future (or even the idea of losing those ancient 5 ton-weighing TVs they demand to have at all venues because of TVs affecting input delay and so on and trying in vain to delay the inevitably once such TV, gamecube controllers and so on cease to be available.
Ur just bad at melee
What?
also “fox and sheik are autoplaying” lol
@@fukusamon4277 Nice argument. How about you grow up?
I think the issue with pal is that they nerfed the top tiers and didn’t buff nearly as much low or mid tiers, there was no incentive to play pal other than I want those 4 top tiers gone, but even that didn’t seem to make them disappear in scene
Next time they should just buff the low tiers
@@Eldoofus Absolutely Ashon esports buffs over nerfs is great
Right, in pal top tiers suck but everyone else still sucks. So its just less fun
nerfing top tier = buff to everyone els
I don’t understand why the Melee community doesn’t do the same thing the Marvel 2 community does.
Create specialized tournaments that ban the top tier characters. Say the top 5 are banned.
The biggest shame is that we won't have any more pal ken combos or as blur calls it the European Ken combo
The thing is people did that finisher in nstc to it was just the only option on PAL and was wayyyy more common
Because NTSC is in the biggest region that sees most of the competition. If the situations were reversed, so would the outcome.
Loved how you told the story. Well edited and concise. Pretty funny
From the US side it just seemed like the obvious choice but I can see my own bias in that line of thinking lol. I'm just glad that the game is more united now that there is one version of the game being used.
PAL version: better overall, but it made the spaceys slightly less busted, so it's evil and had to die
I love hearing Custom Robo OST music in TH-cam videos. Makes me feel not as weird for loving such a bizarre soundtrack.
5:08 is "Say Hello to Bogey" if you've ever heard it and wondered what it was.
real reason: protagonist syndrome cant stand competition. An actually balanced game hurts the fee fees of fast fallers and those that love free conversions.
Pal is balanced like butt
@@nothanksthough Melee is balanced like butt, no matter which version you're on. Any argument for either side is just preference, there's no objectivity in this debate.
@@nothanksthough its a childrens video game, its not meant to be balanced
I like your video style of superimposing yourself over the top of the background of what you're explaining
On thing that i would like from pal are the sheik nerf
Mario and Ganon were really good back when PAL was released, they've fallen off now, but they were common sights in the early 2000s
This channel is going to the moon. I can feel it
>that no one plays
Except every non-competitive melee players in Europe. You find gaming bars in Paris with that version everywhere.
Babe wake up, new chaler upload
This version hurts, PAL being PAL.
commenting for the algorithm, really love your content lately!
I’m demanding a return of PAL Melee via my own setup with 4 out of 6 of the tournament legal stages.
Simple, they didnt want to learn anything new and didnt want their favorite characters to have any disadvantages.
Exact same reasons ppl wanted pal... any arguments for either side beyond that are justifications
Just a correction about the map, Brazil (and the whole South America) is NTSC.
Some nerfs made no sense. I’m 99% sure that yoshi down air was needed in pal because it did too much damage lol
>Fun
Coming from Only Fox No items Only final destination 🙄
MAD issue
Fantastic video. Gotta ask, where'd you find that cover of Gentle Breeze?
Anything that makes Sheik not as frustrating to fight is a good thing in my book
Aight. Glad to know if there was a patch that made the game laggy af at all times except when fighting Shiek, and Shiek was heavily nerfed it'd be a good thing in your book.
Agreed!
Love your content dude! Very entertaining! 🔥🔥
imo we should allow for having Kirby's buffs and other low tier pal fixes modded into the game we play.
It wont change a thing, but it will at least help the bottom tiers.
Primal Dialga theme pog
Sure the bad characters are still bad in PAL and the Top tiers would still win all of the tournaments but as a Roy player I can't tell you how delicious this would be for me fighting a heavily nerfed Sheik, Marth, Fox and Falco. You know what fuck it #BringPALBack
Its very funny how to me I barely even notice any difference
Let's be honest, it was harder with actual tournaments, people need hardware, and the most popular hardware wasn't PAL.
With online emulation though you can choose which version you want to play with no issues.
The thing is, PAL regions moved to NTSC by modding the Wii, so the hardware didn't actually change from what I understand. That's also probably the main reason it took so long to make the switch. Organizing NTSC tournaments in a PAL region is just way too much work on OG hardware.
Why didn't they just give the buffs to the other characters in PAL and not nerf anyone? That would be interesting.
Because some shit is obviously overtuned
Exactly my thoughts. Just buff the low tiers
You should include the songs you use in the song
Ideally both versions would be played, since there's a lot of merit to PAL
Its just worse versions of the fun characters
@@nothanksthough 1) its more balanced, so low tiers are slightly better. EU not having more low tiers doesnt disprove this
2) there are many who consider the pal versions of top tiers 'cooler' except maybe Marth. Worse =/= less cool
@@Akiak7 balance != fun
@@ursamajor4684 they tend to correlate
@@Akiak7 It's really debatable if PAL is even more balanced. It might be more balanced top to bottom, but the balance between the top tiers is worse, imo. That's a lot more important, because that means NTSC is better balanced in the majority of games compared to PAL. Even if PAL Fox-Kirby is 90-10 instead of 95-5, that doesn't result in a better balanced game for 99.9% of players, because 99.9% of games do not include a Kirby.
This makes me think that if they want to re-release melee or make the deluxe version of it, they should leave the top tier untouched and instead focuses on buffing low tiers.
Seeing what the dev team was doing with Ultimate, they would for sure change way more than people would be happy with and the Melee scene would just stick to gamecube.
I think the ideal way to make a hypothetical melee HD would be to buff the low tiers and leave top tiers untouched, but still leave a setting that allows the game to be played in its original state without the balance changes. It wouldn't force the community to play in one way, and let them decide which version to play on. Melee hd is probably never going to happen though, and theres an even smaller chance that nintendo actually thinks of the competitive scene
This was an issue with PM and why it got loaded with so much "jank". Balancing around mistakes is a nightmare.
Melee HD should use pal as a base, and remove the nerfs to mario/Ganon. Then buff the characters outside the top 7
aim small miss small. if they leave the top tiers op and make low tiers op, we'll still have the same issues we have now. lets say they make gannondorfs wizzard kick armored. now we have gannons down b spamming on final destination with no real way to punish. if we instead leave the low tiers and mid tiers and nerf the top tiers in say damage or potential options, we get a more playable game. to make a fair and balanced game you want to get rid of excess gimicks. spacies are fast, thats their gimmick, heavys are well, heavy, thats theirs. floaties float. now after you have gimmicks you balance them. if everyone did the same damage the speedy charectors would always win. so we nerf their damage. only do that and now teh floaties superior movement is shining and being abused. so we nerf their movement on the ground. now we have three "types" of charecters players can pick from that play fundamentally different but achieve the same results. you dont have to GUT a top tier to balance them. and you dont have to make a new god of melee to rise up to their potential. mid tiers are still really fun to play. make the top tiers more resemble mid teirs and fox mains can still break sound barriers with their schmoovment, marth can still juggle people with his massive sword, but now a bowser can punish them when they mess up. there shouldnt be omipinent options in any competitive game. its not like pals changes kept fox mains from winning, or marths. but it did leave an opurtunity for other players who dont like those playstyles to step up and start climbing without hitting the inevitable wall that is marth edgeguarding, or chaingrabs on fd, etc etc.
@@popanda3652 basically one of the only nuanced takes in history about melee. People don't like admitting that some shit is too much.
If melee is ever rereleased the patch is getting rereleased.
What is the name of the song that plays at start?
Does PAL Melee run at 60 FPS still? I know PAL was 50Hz for a long time so you would have games running at 25 or 50 FPS instead.
Am I nuts or--with some exceptions--does this update just seem better
It was better, it just nerfed too tiers and made people against it so they can play their OO characters
I've played NTSC a few times via emulator, didn't like it, similar experience with PAL for the most part, liked Brawl a bit more, overall I'm a N64 player though so I'm going to go back into hiding now.
8:19 look mum I'm famous
PAL is based and everyone should play it
Hungrybox just straight stole this video concept and title 😂
very nice video :)
They would patch melee out if they could
Goddammnit I need mario and DK buffs!
unfortunately no such world exists my friend
one thing about PAL is falcon's gentleman is a lot easier to input consistently so I will forever be upset that it is not the case in NTSC 🥲
I'm an American Kirby main. #CanIPALPls
1:22
Sad that they used their one chance at a patch to make the good characters worse instead of fixing things that are actually broken (e.g. half of Roy’s moves)
THE WORLD...😂😂😂
1:40 kncokback
👍
Everytime I watch a video about this game I just realize more and more how sad the Melee community is.
?
@@simanolastname2399 he thinks we are sad for playing the better version of melee with rollback from the conforts of our individual gamer caves
@@nothanksthough saying "gamer caves" isn't exactly helping our case tbh
Ganondorf getting nerfed was such a stupid thing, Pal should just not exist lol
I might be mistaken, but I recall PAL running at 50Hz for higher resolution instead of NTSC's 60Hz. I think the framerate is what ultimately won over most European players. A higher framerate goes a long way in competitive games, and the fact that the PAL version is slightly slower (I think) makes the rebalancing not worth it.
PAL 60Hz began becoming widespread thing ever since the Dreamcast (about 80-85% of its PAL library has either 60Hz or VGA support), and PAL Melee is compatible 60Hz, so that argument has always been moot.
We would've missed out on all those iconic moments, like Sheik chain-grabbing another Sheik on FD.
Worth it for every combo with a late falco dair
@@nothanksthough Or plup still playing samus in tournament.
@@MorphBall1 ima keep it 100 -- that shit is not happening with sd remix samus, much less PAL samus
@@MorphBall1 they completely removed a move from samus get out of here
@@ln8496 tournament samus doesn't care about extendurrr
Watching Marth's dair get meteor canceled hurts spiritually.
I'd prefer that than a not guaranteed dair-up air kill to puff
Yeah I'm sure all the Ganon mains, Mario mains, and falcon mains are rolling their eyes.
@@freddiesimmons1394 The fact that Mario’s fair can be meteor cancelled is especially dumb, it would make so much sense if it spiked
It soothes a lot of old wounds for me lol
Unless if your BBB
In Europe we were constantly watching tournaments in NTSC and memorizing combos that wouldn't have worked in our beloved PAL.
But the main reason was that american players didn't care about PAL, nor knew much about it.
I main Fox and still would prefer PAL over NTSC.
In Italy we decided to go NTSC mostly thinking about the limitations for our future melee players. We wanted them to be able to travel.
nah man Pal blows it just guts most of what makes melee exciting makes floaties even more busted then they already are hbox would have been a monster from 2015-2020 and it adds no new low tiers to the meta which blows and kinda defeats one of the major issues of melees balance problem in a balance patch lol. Bruh im a falcon main who wouldnt have to worry about Falco my worst m/u by far nearly as much pillars would be gutted but fox waveshines wouldnt so fox falco would be an absolute wash. and who doesnt love falco combos even I a falcon main do lmao theres a lot more implications to it but man trust PAL is not it no samus extender either so booooo. Shiek got nerfed to shit cus she was super good back in the hay day but now she just won her first supermajor in decades.
PAL Fox is the perfect top tier in Melee
Pal is so shit.
@@h3ck774 Dude, PAL was bad because it didn't buff any of the low tiers at all so it did fuck all for the metagame
Im someone who started with netplay and therefore only played NTSC for my whole melee life.
Went to a local which normally plays NTSC but one wii for some reason had with PAL mode enabled. Played sheik for a few matches and noticed that I couldn't regrab Marth. Thought that I just sucked and it was the TV and since the other player teched, I just tech chased them and didn't think about it too much. Fadt forward after a few (tournament) matches, we realized it was PAL we played on.
Nice memories
EXCELLENT MOVIE
Your map shows Brazil as PAL because of PAL-M, but for videogames we almost always imported from the US, thus Melee was always NTSC here
Yeah I worried about this in just trusted Wikipedia guess my teachers where right 😫
@@ChalerYT it's actually okay, since it's true that in analog days Brazil used PAL-M, a PAL based system but at 60Hz, not 50Hz
It comes to the point that CRTs we run our locals on run in both NTSC and PAL which I don't really know if it's the case abroad
It's more like a fun fact, I don't really think it's something well documented in English :)
Ironically, PAL-M has much more in common with NTSC than with European PAL. For all intents and purposes, it's just NTSC with a different color subcarrier
It'd be more precise to separate the world into 50Hz and 60Hz, since NTSC, PAL and SECAM are only color encoding systems. And what the actual game software really cares about is the frequency and number of lines, the color part is transparent and dealt with entirely on hardware
Homogeneity is important for the game to thrive, but I wish the world had switched to PAL. No shot at it happening, but that version of the game is more balanced and I think more friendly to new players
The ganon nerf alone makes pal lame
@@nothanksthough Indeed.
Great video, but I think the first reason can be explained better, by the fact that the vast majority of players & set-ups were already on NTSC melee. PAL games only existed in Europe and Australia, and tournaments often use vanilla hardware, which isn't compatible with PAL games for most of the world...
So logistically, it would have been nearly impossible to switch to PAL. It's not that America's elite players just forced everyone to stay on PAL. If anything TOs were even more pro-NTSC.
Ah my bad if it came across like thats what i was saying i was more driving home the point that there was no pressure for America to even consider changing they were the standard due to their high volume of players and the best players. Rather than them denying it. I would loved to have talked more on the setup thing but i just felt it dragged the pace abit and i trust you guys to get that but maybe i could have included more about the tech restricting imports of the other version for sure! Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it
@@ChalerYT Yeah I don't disagree with anything that was said, this is one of the best-written melee videos I've seen recently. I just would have mentioned the sheer volume of NTSC vs. PAL units that existed. ...And the noise that TOs created on all sides because they didn't want to replace region-locked set ups.
I wouldn't want Slippi kids to misinterpret that mang0 bullied us into keeping NTSC, or something haha.
Depends on what side of the fence you're on I guess as I do believe popular/top player bias played a decent role in it but certainly wasn't the only reason, and I don't think NTSC players enjoyed playing their nerfed characters in another region and I can certainly understand why - I too like Falco dairs that go down haha
In the end though I think it's undeniable that PAL regions took it on the chin, adapted with ease and did it to better Melee as a whole - it was convenient for the US and NTSC players that they didn't have to change anything.
@@DamonHunter13 just keep in mind NTSC is the ENTIRE WORLD except EU and Australia... and places like Japan are culturally against modding for ex... So if they wanted to run PAL they'd have to import hardware. In that case it has almost nothing to do with elite player bias.
@@Masaru_kun the opposite is true, China and India for example used PAL color and 625-line TV fields.
PAL also got rid of Ness Thunder Jacket and Samus extender.
Summary:
(1) USA is pulling the "Imperial Units are the Best" thing.
(2) Most of the community mains top tiers, so unhappy with nerfs*.
(3) It is not fun**.
The video gave me the impression that the change to NTSC was done just out of spite. Mainly because Europe is more prone to change and wanted to attract some players from North America. I guess the balance Sakurai made is not legit for North American players, so Europe has to adapt. Yet, I am sure the video wanted to tell us the opposite: that NTSC is better.
* : Imagine the following. Imagine that there is a balanced Meta Knight is SSBB, but since all players play Meta Knight, nobody wants to switch to that version. Therefore telling the game is worst not fun, since the majority are playing the top tier.
** : I always heard the opposite: most European like PAL better. So basically, fun is based on exposition (or how much glitch you can do... which I can hear too).
>"why did the abandon it?"
Immediate thoughts, "they nerfed Fox, didn't they?
>One of the first things mentioned were Fox nerfs.
Oh, fightan community... Never changes.
could you imagine the absolute dominance hbox and amsa would have on pal
personally, as someone who went to lans back in the days before online existed, and someone who dabbles in slippi now, i prefer playing on balanced patches. havent tried pal, but ive tried a few that just change values a little and maybe the knockback of a few characters like pal, and me and my friends have enjoyed them MORE than vanilla. even my fox and falco main friends were delighted to try new charectors without the inevitable "Well now ima tryhard with fox and make you not be able to play the game" match that happens that gets everyone in a sour mood. the mains still beat us mid and low tier mains, but it was alot closer and realistic to the time and effort we put into our characters. no one was blaming moves or mechs, just yelling good natured at each other about crazy reads and stuff.
in short, in my friend group balance patches are more fun for everyone involved. i have friends who main falco, fox, and marth that prefer when their charecter is balanced(not gutted). As a low and mid tier main, i prefer being able to play the game with a character that reflects the playstyle i enjoy most without it being inherently punished because of unintended strats or techs.
There's no sugarcoating it; convincing Americans to make the switch to PAL would have been much more difficult than European countries switching to NTSC. Rather than adopt the official most recent version of the game, the community decided to coddle its largest region.
Some cools things about PAL:
1) Melee PAL Falco down air getting its late hit of down air spike removed, would funnily enough be translated into Brawl Falco were it would do the same thing.
2) Similarly, Melee PAL Marth down air going from a spike to a meteor is applied to his Brawl iteration, although the move is way more useful in Brawl than in PAL Melee due to its higher KO power and the changes to meteor canceling.
2) Melee Mario's weight going from 100 -> 98 in PAL is funnily enough the standard for Mario to this day. Mario is every Smash game after Melee (Brawl, SSB4, Ultimate) would have his weight be at 98.
3) A few of the changes done seems weird at first, but makes MUCH more sense in the context of early Melee.
---- Nerfs to Mario and Ganondorf were definitely because in the early years, these two characters were seen much more positively than they are today.
---- Sheik was the top tier hit with the biggest nerfs because for the first 5-6 years of the game, she was considered the dominant #1 character.
---- Yoshi got directly buffed because before aMSa came along in the early 2010s, Yoshi was considered a bottom 5 character in the game.
---- Marth's down air changing from a spike to a meteor seems to be done as a consistency thing, as Roy's down air is a meteor as well.
Wot
Pal came out in the same year as NTSC they didn’t make changes based on a competitive scene that barely existed at that point
PAL happened in the first year, not the first 5-6 years. The context of early melee only applies to Nov 2001 to May 2002 for PAL nerfs, which is accurate to say Ganon and Mario were seen as good characters (but good back then simply meant easy to use). It's possible that smash world forums (smashboards) was viewed by Nintendo employees to make the decisions to nerf top tiers, or maybe the nerfs were always meant to be in NTSC but they released the game too early to make all the changes they wanted to.
Even though I really do appreciate good patching in modern games, I swear there’s just something special about stories of old-school competitive scenes resoundingly rejecting a balance update for their game that never fails to warm my weird old boomer-ass FGC heart.
The people saying they will quit over a minor balance patch because they are too afraid of change - i promise quitting and going to a completely new game will be even more change - terrifying!!!!
Learning that the Competitive Melee community was presented with the option to knock the oppressively high tiers down a peg and remove a chain grab from the game but chose not to take it makes my longstanding disdain feel more justified.
The top tiers are lstill top tiers in PAL, the nerfs to the top tier are just annoying.
@@missquake Top tiers can be top tier without being overwhelmingly, debilitatingly overbearing.
Melee haters are so weird to me
@@jakefromstatefarm6969 Thank you for your contribution
@@MitchFromFBS no problem, just felt like I needed to voice my confusion
This, This is a falcons paradise
All the stuff in the game that feels super unfair..... is the stuff they fixed in PAL. Good to know the devs agree with me. Too bad we have a bunch of whiny bitches that cry if you nerf their clearly broken characters. But hey, at least it isn't ultimate.
All the stuff that feels unfair huh? Why no puff nerfs then? You think a frame one move with invulnerability that can insta kill is balanced?
@@nothanksthough yes. Because the hitbox is small and if you whiff your opponent has a whopping 3 seconds to hit you with their strongest attack (which will probably cost Puff a stock)
@@nothanksthough git gud
cry harder
"Melee is old enough to get a drink with it in any country" Damn... It's been that long?? Time sure does fly by...
pal wasn't melee's only balance patch.
there are multiple ntsc versions, but we tend to ignore anything that isn't 1.02 and pal. Release melee had different hitstun properties which helped multihit characters like samus and ylink
“Like samus and young link”
No it didnt. Fox could stale his drill and then it couldn’t be sdi’d. Those characters didn’t appreciate that…
Release melee helped Link by allowing him to steal elements of the UI with his bow, too.
Melee players not being able to adapt to something new? Surprising.
This is just a stylistic question as it is in so many sports. North America always prioritised show and greatness, Europe wanted fairness.
Objectively, PAL is more balanced and therefore fairer, but NTSC gives you a better show.
And the answer what should be played depends on where more players come from. In Smash, it's clearly North America and Japan, hence it's NTSC.
Glad I got to play PAL while it lasted :'D
PAL >>> NTSC the balance changes are legitimately good! The top tiers need the edges rounded off, but they still totally feel true to their original gameplan and styles. sure fox cant kill super easy with upsmash, but its still a great move, and up air still works fine ext. marth cant spike but up b fills similar combo niche and isn't OP amd dumb! its unfortunate ntsc is the standard.
arguments for NTSC: shiek can now wobble half the cast and fox' hitboxes are big enough to have almost universal priority
arguments against NTSC: shiek can now wobble half the cast and fox' hitboxes are big enough to have almost universal priority
its kinda funny to think theres an actually good version of melee that exists but people refuse to use it because they think making the game objectively worse will improve the competitive scene somehow
Objectively worse? Like that’s actually a thing?
You’re just being pretentious.
@@skeetermania3202 a version of a game that is broken to high hell with overpowered characters and garbage like shiek wobbles is OBJECTIVELY WORSE, yes
there is not a single argument you could try to make that has making a game unplayable for 80% of the playerbase be an improvement
I like most of the changes in PAL but I will absolutely never be able to get on board with marth's dair change. That alone makes me never want to switch to that lol
Yeah he needs it more than falcon, Mario, Ganon, or any other character stuck with a meteor
Wait
@@freddiesimmons1394 Meteor cancels are dumb in general. The less the better but marth's dair is so laggy it absolutely should not be one.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon startup > lag by a country mile. Terrible take
@@freddiesimmons1394 Found the mid tier main
@@Jarekthegamingdragon ...no I play sheik and peach. Try again, homer
Imagine any other export downpatching to play more unfair and busted characters. No wonder Nintendo doesn't want to support smash.
Sinply put, because Fox mains are the sort of people who throw a fit if they can't win every single match.
i have only ever played pal melee, project melee, smash remix, and ultimate.
The melee community refusing to play the bug fixed version because they all had glue for breakfast:
Americans really love their glues
They want to TOD in a party game 😮
As a US Peach player, these Fox nerfs not being in the game is a tragedy
no it isnt... there would be more puffs LMAO
@@ursamajor4684 which means you'd see more young links
@@freddiesimmons1394 Good
Lmao didn't honest content just do this type of video
melee players need to find another hobby. It's alarming, really.
So, was a PAL memory card mod created as well?
pretty good content don't play melee but his was well made
I think the biggest tragedies of pal are all of sheik and falcons weak knee
lol that ending was perfect because i’m that guy who always asks
4:01 this is untrue in the PM community right now, as while most regions run P+, there are a few countries in Europe that continue to run PM 3.6
But pm isn’t even a real game, actual games like the fgc are all using same patch/version
@@Noahtheorigianl who cares if it's "real"?
What does that matter to anyone
@@freddiesimmons1394 well onward with it not being a real game but also a fan mod, it had 2 dif mod teams, so ofc ontop of that there will be devision, and also some might like the other way more, it’s not a real game so why even have integrity or have same patch if it’s a mod in the first place
@@Noahtheorigianl is that a sentence
@@freddiesimmons1394 anyway the point is that pm not being a real company released game, of course the pm community is going to play different versions, it comes with modding culture