3438: smooth, clean, mathematically correct 2612: gritty, distorted, fun I could see the 3438 helping big orchestral soundtracks, but it absolutely neuters the SOR2 intro
The YM3438 is a much cleaner sound that really makes me want to put it in my model 1 just for the pure accuracy of how it executes FM. Then again, the ladder effect that the composers were able to take advantage of on the YM2612, along with the grittiness it adds to its sound, is what I'll always remember about the Genesis and how it was meant to be heard.
Everyone needs more than one Genesis! Personally I would like to add something crazy like a tube preamp to the Genesis. But then again maybe dreams are best left as dreams.
With MiSTerFPGA you can select both the YM2612 and YM3438, and both the filtering of the Model 1, and the Model 2. The devs used MDfourier so the filters are perfectly spot on.
The YM3438 Sounds great until it's compared to the YM2612. When that happens all I notice is how clean the YM3438 sounds but it leaves me disappointed in how it seems to snuff certain sounds that come across as perfectly clear with the YM2612. I wish we could get the best of both worlds in one chip.
Your 3438 implementation is overloading your op-amp. I especially noticed clipping and muffled sound when I jumped to the Streets of Rage 2 intro track. So I recorded 3438 and 2612 from my M1 Double Mega toggle kit for a more fair comparison with properly attenuated outputs from each chip: 3438: drive.google.com/open?id=1Mm-QfAhyrRLmwzEMjuaGzYuZqqBu9rcf 2612: drive.google.com/open?id=1_HUteQjT4FY-LAXJcUibz1IcVRpOVPHo Pics of the finalized kit can be seen on my Twitter feed: twitter.com/FBXGargoyle/status/1232539117554143233?s=20 Also I should point out that even with proper attenuation, 3438 isn't 100% compatible. You have to use the 2612 as a surrogate timer to avoid glitches in a few games. My 4-layer board makes use of this concept.
Love it, sounds amazing! I definitely prefer the 2612 over the 3438 after watching this! They both have their place of course, but prefer the more bit crushed sounding chip!
Good grief! Midnight Resistance on the Genesis is just about the best synth game music out there, then you go and add the YM3438 and the bass fills the speakers with big beefy sound. You need to drop the whole OST for us to enjoy...PLEAAAAAASSSSSEEEE!!!
Always though YM2612 was better, why i have both model 1 and 2 Gens each with a high quality SCART that would both go into OSSC, so all it came down to me was the diff in sound, which is why I usually always use my model 1 (run 3..5 mm out front headphone out jack into OSSC jack, only way to get true stereo without extra mods to AV out in back of Genesis 1s ). But I have to say from this video, it seems a lot of mid presence I like is there with the 3438, doesn't sound as tinny/gritty...although some "cymbal hits" MIDI sounds seem missing as compared to the 2612...dam always pros/cons with EVERYTHING!
Good catch, thank you. All fixed. Personally, I'm more fond of the YM2612. I think the sound has a bit more character to it. You're right though, the YM3438 certainly does a lot more punch to it.
The 2612 doesn't have a 15khz cut off filter if I look at the spectrum plot of the audio while the 3438 does have one. Still the 2612 is brighter overall.
For those who would consider putting the YM3438 instead of the YM2612, but they're hesitating...is there some kind of way to be able to put both in, and just having a switch to choose which one you want to use?
The PSG just sounds quiet on the 2612 version you've done, also the 2612 sound like it has noise which I like. 3438 version you have, PSG is way up there and cleaner. I kinda like both tbh. All FM Synth turns me on.
I have to say your YM2612 seems to be playing very high pitched and harsh, notice the bells at around 18:14 , they sound wrong.For comparison load up another window with @UCtGLMiSRaxMwCHmRUgUA19A channel and go to his Thunder force 4 video and play 4:46 and play them side by side.
Huh the comparison seems a little unfair, as ideally you'd compensate them to sound... somewhat more similar. The circuits are intended to be matched to the desired sound after all. I think 2612 needs a stronger LPF. Love the 3438 sound though. And the music per se.
I like the 3438 a lot more with Midnight Resistance and I like the 2612 a lot more with SOR2 (which you mention makes use of some glitch so I guess that makes sense). For Shining Force I guess I give a SLIGHT edge to the 2612. But I'd still say I like the 3438 more overall.
YM2612 é melhor. O som dos jogos ficam melhor nesse chip de som. Reprodução de voz menos rouca, melhor harmonia no "baixo" e "fino", menos "bips", ou seja, som mais limpo. Eu jogo no Mega Drive original (de 1988, com Y2612) e percebe diferença dos de modelo 2 e modelo 3.
Hello! No, the YM2151 is actually very different from the YM2612, even though they're both Yamaha FM synth chips. The YM2151 does not feature a PCM channel, but it does have 2 more FM channels and uses a higher-quality external DAC. As for one being better than the other, that's up to personal opinion. Objectively speaking, the YM2151 does feature far higher-resolution FM channels than the YM2612, but some people prefer the crunchy DAC that the YM2612 has. Since the YM2151 lacks PCM support, drums need to be synthesized or handled on external PCM chips.
The consoles themselves do not contain a discrete YM3438, unlike the 2612 versions. They're embedded within the main ASIC (A large QFP-packaged chip usually with a part number beginning with 315). If you want a discrete YM3438, it would be better to look on eBay or Aliexpress. Be careful of fakes!
I prefer the 2612, but let's keep in mind that Genesis music was composed with this chip in mind, so 3438 is just a kind of emulation. Some people might prefer the 3438 qualities but naturally it just sounds off.
Weird, I grew up with the model 2 genesis but the 2612 sounds "right" to me, I wonder if it's because the sound was notoriously bad on the 2nd gens or the or the cr tvs or somethin because the other chip sounds totally "wrong" to my ear. I'm trying to figure out which of these I'm about to buy from you lol I'm thinking the 2612 even though apparently that's not the one I grew up with? Even though it totally sounds like it? Any insight on this phenomenon I'm experiencing with the sound difference and the model 2 or am I just losing my mind? 🤣
Such a PCB does exist for the Genesis and Megadrive model 1 units. Look for Firebrandx on the web. He is nearing completion of his of M1 Double mega. A PCB you pop in place of the original 2612 on the Genesis/MD that has a toggle switch on it to flip between the 2612 and 3438 on the fly. I've got one of his older prototype boards installed.
Ben Nahum It is not possible since the YM3438's output impedance is much higher than the YM2612's. You will need to replace a couple resistors that I've listed in a guide posted in the description.
CMOS is the type of transistor used in the IC. That mainly affects how much power it uses, it's a different transistor technology. It won't really affect the sound. It can affect the size of the IC circuit
The YM3438 sounds distorted in the bass and muffled in the high end. Overall it has a bit more weight to it and sounds cleaner, in a way like a SNES SPC700. But the balance is way off, so I clearly prefer the YM2612 here, except maybe for the first track in this comparison.
ym2612 sounds better in every single way, higher resolution and bass is just enough where ym3438 is too bassy, at times it doesn't sound original at all.
YM3438 is more clearer, but YM2612 grittier sounds makes it better for more Metal Type songs.
YM3438 can actually do good Metal type music, if you have 2 of them.
3438: smooth, clean, mathematically correct
2612: gritty, distorted, fun
I could see the 3438 helping big orchestral soundtracks, but it absolutely neuters the SOR2 intro
I know this is an old comment, but you definitely nailed it
@@backslash_iii thx
@@babylfsh the sn76489 actually does the sor 1 intro synth lead
@@chinossynthesizer705 Kinda a non sequitur lol
@@babylfsh when you mix the two of them they sing then I dance
The YM3438 is a much cleaner sound that really makes me want to put it in my model 1 just for the pure accuracy of how it executes FM. Then again, the ladder effect that the composers were able to take advantage of on the YM2612, along with the grittiness it adds to its sound, is what I'll always remember about the Genesis and how it was meant to be heard.
Everyone needs more than one Genesis! Personally I would like to add something crazy like a tube preamp to the Genesis. But then again maybe dreams are best left as dreams.
@@fenixlolnope361 Do It
@@fenixlolnope361 True that! I have 2 Genesis.
And like Louis Stubbolo says: do it !
With MiSTerFPGA you can select both the YM2612 and YM3438, and both the filtering of the Model 1, and the Model 2. The devs used MDfourier so the filters are perfectly spot on.
@@SpaghettiEnterprises ⚔️😵 (RIP Count Dooku 😢)
The YM3438 Sounds great until it's compared to the YM2612. When that happens all I notice is how clean the YM3438 sounds but it leaves me disappointed in how it seems to snuff certain sounds that come across as perfectly clear with the YM2612. I wish we could get the best of both worlds in one chip.
How about include them both
@@neonthefox3550 dont forget sn76489
2612 would win IMO if they had all their current mods applied. It's hard to say what I like better, it really does depend on the track in this video.
Your 3438 implementation is overloading your op-amp. I especially noticed clipping and muffled sound when I jumped to the Streets of Rage 2 intro track. So I recorded 3438 and 2612 from my M1 Double Mega toggle kit for a more fair comparison with properly attenuated outputs from each chip:
3438: drive.google.com/open?id=1Mm-QfAhyrRLmwzEMjuaGzYuZqqBu9rcf
2612: drive.google.com/open?id=1_HUteQjT4FY-LAXJcUibz1IcVRpOVPHo
Pics of the finalized kit can be seen on my Twitter feed:
twitter.com/FBXGargoyle/status/1232539117554143233?s=20
Also I should point out that even with proper attenuation, 3438 isn't 100% compatible. You have to use the 2612 as a surrogate timer to avoid glitches in a few games. My 4-layer board makes use of this concept.
Love it, sounds amazing!
I definitely prefer the 2612 over the 3438 after watching this! They both have their place of course, but prefer the more bit crushed sounding chip!
Wish I had a Mega Drive / Sega with a BIOS where you could choose either FM Synthesizer!
@@ryanglaser5336the Genesis mini 2 gives that option. Not sure of it would work on ROMs other than the included ones.
Good grief! Midnight Resistance on the Genesis is just about the best synth game music out there, then you go and add the YM3438 and the bass fills the speakers with big beefy sound. You need to drop the whole OST for us to enjoy...PLEAAAAAASSSSSEEEE!!!
Always though YM2612 was better, why i have both model 1 and 2 Gens each with a high quality SCART that would both go into OSSC, so all it came down to me was the diff in sound, which is why I usually always use my model 1 (run 3..5 mm out front headphone out jack into OSSC jack, only way to get true stereo without extra mods to AV out in back of Genesis 1s ). But I have to say from this video, it seems a lot of mid presence I like is there with the 3438, doesn't sound as tinny/gritty...although some "cymbal hits" MIDI sounds seem missing as compared to the 2612...dam always pros/cons with EVERYTHING!
Timestamps in description are a bit off for Midnight Resistance. I like how punchy the 3438 is! The 2612 has crisper highs though
Good catch, thank you. All fixed. Personally, I'm more fond of the YM2612. I think the sound has a bit more character to it. You're right though, the YM3438 certainly does a lot more punch to it.
The 2612 doesn't have a 15khz cut off filter if I look at the spectrum plot of the audio while the 3438 does have one. Still the 2612 is brighter overall.
2612 is blast processing, but the 3438 is SUPER blast processing.
SEGA always wins, even when it loses. Nintendo always loses, even when it wins!
YM3438 sounds so much better, I had no idea it would work.
Did you see Yuzo Koshiro use your midi blaster to play the sonic 2 master system theme from his old computer? Awesome right!
2612 adds noise to the synthesis, and sounds more vintage
Or crappy, depending on how you look at it
@@txray3409 crappy really the yamaha2612 still is good
@@txray3409 old analog synths sound noisy too
Nothing beats the real thing.
For those who would consider putting the YM3438 instead of the YM2612, but they're hesitating...is there some kind of way to be able to put both in, and just having a switch to choose which one you want to use?
Hey! Can you do dual YM3438? System 32 used dual YM3438 for the music.
Can you image using YM2608 to Revenge of Shinobi and Streets of Rage OST?
Even without the ladder effect glitch the 3438 sounds so much funkier and soulful than the 2612.
I would've preferred the YM3438 in my Mega Drive.
Great video I love both YM chips
The MiSTer Genesis core added this chip today. It rules.
The 3438 somehow makes the PSG sound much clearer.
Which is what I love about it. Those sweet bell like tones from the PSG are godly.
But the sn76489 is 8 bits lol
Wow the 3438 is so much better
really depends on the track
The PSG just sounds quiet on the 2612 version you've done, also the 2612 sound like it has noise which I like.
3438 version you have, PSG is way up there and cleaner. I kinda like both tbh. All FM Synth turns me on.
Perfect job here. Thanks !
4:27 sounds alot like landstalker seeking treasure
YM3438 is way clearer and warmer and think Sega should have used this chip to compete with SNES's sound quality. Arguably on par.
I have to say your YM2612 seems to be playing very high pitched and harsh, notice the bells at around 18:14 , they sound wrong.For comparison load up another window with @UCtGLMiSRaxMwCHmRUgUA19A channel and go to his Thunder force 4 video and play 4:46 and play them side by side.
Huh the comparison seems a little unfair, as ideally you'd compensate them to sound... somewhat more similar. The circuits are intended to be matched to the desired sound after all. I think 2612 needs a stronger LPF.
Love the 3438 sound though. And the music per se.
Is it the YM3438 or a different YM chip that's plug-in compatible with the YM2149 but has better audio and more available channels?
I like the 3438 a lot more with Midnight Resistance and I like the 2612 a lot more with SOR2 (which you mention makes use of some glitch so I guess that makes sense). For Shining Force I guess I give a SLIGHT edge to the 2612. But I'd still say I like the 3438 more overall.
YM2612 é melhor. O som dos jogos ficam melhor nesse chip de som. Reprodução de voz menos rouca, melhor harmonia no "baixo" e "fino", menos "bips", ou seja, som mais limpo. Eu jogo no Mega Drive original (de 1988, com Y2612) e percebe diferença dos de modelo 2 e modelo 3.
Quick question. Can you replace a YM2413 in the Sega Master System with a YM2612 or YM3438?
The sega master system uses the sn76489 chip?
The Japanese Master System has a YM2413 in it also. But it can be added/modded to western Master Systems as well.
Streets of Rage II Intro sounds awful on YM3438 :/ The rest is way better though
Why doesn't sega used the 3438 chip on the genesis instead of the 2612?
Aww, man. Fighting Back is great and all, but I kinda wish Space Walk was here instead
Is the YM2151 (many arcade boards used the YM2151) pin compatible with the Mega Drive? And also, is it better than both the YM2612 and YM3438?
Hello! No, the YM2151 is actually very different from the YM2612, even though they're both Yamaha FM synth chips. The YM2151 does not feature a PCM channel, but it does have 2 more FM channels and uses a higher-quality external DAC. As for one being better than the other, that's up to personal opinion. Objectively speaking, the YM2151 does feature far higher-resolution FM channels than the YM2612, but some people prefer the crunchy DAC that the YM2612 has. Since the YM2151 lacks PCM support, drums need to be synthesized or handled on external PCM chips.
both ym26 good on some track but ym36 great on others
Which segas can I harvest a ym3438 chip from I already bought two and neither had them I’m very disappointed
The consoles themselves do not contain a discrete YM3438, unlike the 2612 versions. They're embedded within the main ASIC (A large QFP-packaged chip usually with a part number beginning with 315).
If you want a discrete YM3438, it would be better to look on eBay or Aliexpress. Be careful of fakes!
😍
super cool!!!
I prefer the 2612, but let's keep in mind that Genesis music was composed with this chip in mind, so 3438 is just a kind of emulation. Some people might prefer the 3438 qualities but naturally it just sounds off.
The 3438 is so much grittier and has so much more punch! I kinda want to put one of these in my actual Mega Drive now.
You can actually do that. I've modified several of my own Genesis systems with a 3438 in them in addition to doing it for a few others.
Weird, I grew up with the model 2 genesis but the 2612 sounds "right" to me, I wonder if it's because the sound was notoriously bad on the 2nd gens or the or the cr tvs or somethin because the other chip sounds totally "wrong" to my ear. I'm trying to figure out which of these I'm about to buy from you lol I'm thinking the 2612 even though apparently that's not the one I grew up with? Even though it totally sounds like it? Any insight on this phenomenon I'm experiencing with the sound difference and the model 2 or am I just losing my mind? 🤣
Some Genesis Model 2s came with the YM2612. The VA2.3 Genesis Model 2 I know came with one.
@@lance16O1 BINGO!
The 2612 destroys, no comparison! The 3438 sounds great too, but not even near as “chip” sounding in terms of FM flavor.
3438 is leagues a head of the 2612
I'm guessing those resistors could be changed via a switch. Would be a messy hack around but a possible revision PCB could include this I imagine
Such a PCB does exist for the Genesis and Megadrive model 1 units. Look for Firebrandx on the web. He is nearing completion of his of M1 Double mega. A PCB you pop in place of the original 2612 on the Genesis/MD that has a toggle switch on it to flip between the 2612 and 3438 on the fly. I've got one of his older prototype boards installed.
That is great, is it possible to connect both chips and switch on the fly?
Ben Nahum It is not possible since the YM3438's output impedance is much higher than the YM2612's. You will need to replace a couple resistors that I've listed in a guide posted in the description.
Aidan Lawrence Thanks. Love your project.
👏👏😃😃
Could someone explain what YM3438 being a CMOS means?
CMOS is the type of transistor used in the IC. That mainly affects how much power it uses, it's a different transistor technology. It won't really affect the sound. It can affect the size of the IC circuit
Can I do this to my sega genesis?
10:00 Enigma Sadness?
Is the YM 2151 pin compatible?
No, sorry, the YM2151 has a completely different pinout and relies on an external DAC.
3438 sounds better to me. Why isn't anyone selling these completed yet!? 😣
The YM3438 sounds distorted in the bass and muffled in the high end. Overall it has a bit more weight to it and sounds cleaner, in a way like a SNES SPC700. But the balance is way off, so I clearly prefer the YM2612 here, except maybe for the first track in this comparison.
ym2612 sounds better in every single way, higher resolution and bass is just enough where ym3438 is too bassy, at times it doesn't sound original at all.
Especially in TF4,3438is too rich in mid range and 2612 is hotter by sharp high and distortion.