One more thing , these discussions are useless people's grave have turned to dust. Instead of harking on ur past alleged glories, it is better to coperate with other countries and be one among equals rather than lording over others.
Super interesting history. I think the criticism of the Indian army for their performance is quite unwarranted. All armies of the conflict experienced such things. Thank you! Regards from Canada 🇨🇦 Looking forward to the next videos 😊
My Great Grandfather served in the Indian Army Corps, Pte Thomas Smyth from Clogheen, County Tipperary, Ireland. He served with the 1st Connaught Rangers, Ferozepore Brigade, 3rd Lahore Division.. very proud of him
My great grandfather served in the British Indian Army in German East Africa & Mesopotamia in WW1. He then settled in Karachi and our family moved to Mumbai after partition. Very proud of him.
They did indeed. But they stayed put - even when they were gassed. At Loos, in 1915, The Lahore Division died where it stood. Our Indian (and modern-day)Pakistani comrades were superb soldiers.
Hello, I love watching your channel and is very informative. The amount of research you do is Fantastic. Please make a video on Monsieur Raymond who was a very good friend of The Nizam of Hyderabad. I would love to watch that video as I am a native of Hyderabad, India. Thanks and keep up the Good Work.
The the Indians had done their job in NW Europe and were moved to Egypt for what would become the Egyptian Expeditionary Force. This had great success 1917-18 under General Allenby in the defeat of the Turks in the Levant
Sikh Mountain Gunners and other Indians supported the ANZACs at Gallipoli My father was a member of the 2/19th Battalion AIF, during the defence of Singapore he was placed alongside a machine gunner to protect the gunner and next to him lay the body of a Sikh soldier who had been in the same position before my father
@@wavavoom Read about the Battle on the Bakri Parit Sulong Road Malaya January 1942 when the 2/29th Battalion AIF and 2/19th Battalion AIF, together with remnants of the Indian 45th Brigade who had been overrun at Muar, held the Imperial Guards Division Best description of this virtually unknown and forgotten battle are found in 2/29th Battalion history
The 4th & 5th Indian Divs fought gallantly along side the Kiwis 2NZDIV in N.Africa & Italy. Few know the famous Op Supercharge part of Alamein that broke the Axis line was suggested, planned & executed by 2NZDIV & the 5th Indian Div. This after 18th Indian Brigade sacrificed itself stopping Rommel at Alamein 3 months earlier.
Smuts stated that when they went to war with the British in 1899 they were hoping that it would ignite a Rebellion in India that would tie the British down.
I once saw in Dunnhil's book of pipes that the Indian soldiers made earthen pipes for hashish on the edge of the trenches, do you know that? Really good lecture👍👍👍
The Indian troops are unsung heroes. In WW2 they fought in every theatre with distinction. Few remember that on 1-7-42, a green Indian unit, the 18th Brigade, fought on surrounded by the 21st Panzer Div at Dier el Shein. On day one of Rommel's push for Cairo they saved the Army by holding out for 24hrs, allowing Auchinlek a day to plan & respond. Then 5,000miles away a mixed Indian unit again saved the day v the last Japanese land offensive U-Go, attacking into India at Imphal & Kohima, mid 1944.
Thanks a lot - yes I love Forlorn Hope. They have also been on my audio podcast in the past also. Chris Simpson, the lead singer is now a mate. Are you a fan?
There are some books on it and I read most from wiki and paul von lettock vorbeck said that 129th Duke of Connaught's Own Baluchis were very good.@@redcoathistory
Other thing I suggest is avoiding Pakistani authors after 1971 since they try to change the history of the regiment and its demographics to Punjabi @@redcoathistory
one book you could read Sir, I suggest this as History of the Baloch Regiment : (1820-1939), the colonial period Ahmed, Rafiuddin Maj. Gen. and I apologize for my bad english since Its my third language @@redcoathistory
They failed at Festubert and Aubers Ridge, batt med officers reporting incredible numbers of self inflicted wounds mainly shooting thumbs and forefingers off.Check the official war office photographs of Indian casualties coming down the lines with bandaged right hands.
There are some great pictures of wounded Indians being looked after in the Royal Pavillion at Brighton , I don't know if it was because people here imagined the average Indian soldier was accustomed to living in palatial surroundings but it does look quite luxurious there .
@@redcoathistory Thank you, I appreciate its possibly quite hard to research, as even in NZ its largely unknown (deliberately in a lot of cases) but it's a fascinating story. I don't think there's really anything on TH-cam that does the wars justice and its really the height of the the clash of Polynesian and british. Anyway thanks again and if there's anything we can do to help would be awesome!
Yes, it would, and after 1915 that is exactly where the Indian Divisions were deployed, save for some of the Indian Cavalry Divisions which were retained in Europe until much later. The problem in 1914 and 1915 is that the pre War British Army was a small, professional Army. The German Army was a largely conscript Army. This meant the British Army simply did not have the depth of reserves (men with some prior military service who could be called up and retrained quickly). They had to build their army from scratch. And that took time. Until those new freshly raised troops were trained though, Britain needed Manpower on the Western Front.... As it happened, the Indian Army was a source of already trained and in many cases combat experienced soldiers. It is true they lacked the heavy weapons of the British, but there was nothing wrong with the soldiers, and Britain desperately needed soldiers on the front line to hold long enough for them to get those new troops currently training ready (about 1.5 million of them). And so the Indians were thrown in. The biggest problems were not actually equipment or uniforms. Contrary to the belief of some people who have commented here the Indian Army often fought in non tropical conditions, the sub continent is a BIG place. The biggest problems were two in particular. First is that an Indian Army Battalion was smaller than a British Army Battalion, a fact that many non Indian Army Officers did not realise. A British Army Battalion was around 1000 men assuming it was at full strength, an Indian Army Battalion was around 750 men assuming full strength. Despite the fewer men however they had to hold the same length of line as British Battalions. The second issue was worse, the British Army had essentially hijacked all the still serving British Indian Army Officers it could. This was a problem. Why? Communications. You see a British Officer joining the Indian Army would undergo an extensive linguistics course. First they spent to years learning Urdu, which was the lingua franca of the Indian Army at the time. After that they then had to learn the language of the regiment they would be serving with, Gurkhali for a Gurkha officer for example. All of these men were gone, and the officers they were given were leading troops they did not understand culturally, and with whom he could not effectively communicate. The situation was resolved eventually by posting back and surviving Indian Army Officers from British Regiments, but as you can imagine it caused all sorts of issues. The only reason why it was not worse is that the Indian Officers of an Indian Regiment were all lifers, all promoted through the ranks and were on the whole superb.
So the Indians saved the British Forces, and the BF saved the Western Front collapsing. No Indians, no battle of Marne....the Germans would have marched through. Recognition of this contribution lacking, in Britain, in France in history!! Shame
The battle of the Marne was fought 5-12th September 1914, Indian troops only began to land in France on the 26th of September and would onlby get into action in October. While valuable the British contribution in the battle of the Marne.was small with only 6 divisions compared to the 64 French and 51 German divisions. The critical contribution of the BEF was not the Marne but Ypres later on because by that stage the allied resources were stretched thin over a longer front line.
One thing not mentioned - racism was endemic and deeply ingrained against Indians. I would imagine it would be extremely hard going to die for "people" who thought you were inferior. The whole structure of the British Indian Army was racist. The more intelligent Indian officers and soldiers would have found it excruciatingly difficult to identify with the overall cause and execution of the war.
Will try and find the two books I think Redcoat. Surely, though, you can't argue with the inequitable structure and rank system and the difference in pay. The segment about rifles needing to be changed out at the last minute made me quite ashamed as well. And imagine sending any troops out in the autumn, winter and spring of 1914-15 in their thin khaki cottons, hopeless turbans and silly puttees.@@redcoathistory
My family from India participated in ww1 and ww2. It would be difficult for anybody from India to go to Europe and fight a war with weapons that they have never used in their lives nor warm clothes were given to Indian troops. Even clothes boots of dead white soldiers were given to Indian soldiers. Even though stitched these uniforms, clothes have bullet entry and exit marks. Most of Indian soldiers were sent on suicide missions where British troops don't want to go so Indian troops have high casualties.
Rubbish. The Indian army was a professional fighting force with its own material procurement. In many cases the equipment they were issued was superior to the British troops since their supply channels were different. Are you getting your facts from bollywood films? 😅
Ive heard sonmany stoires on Mir Dast and his brother... they were from the khyber side of thr indian empire not Afghanistan. Both illiterate villagers with no link to the emir of Afghanistan.
@@obisan666 I will be cutting him a wide berth, poor old chap. I'd even settle for someone who can talk about a subject without making it boring, tedious and coma-inducing. David Starkey _he is not._
They were collaborators of their subjugators, the racist British. Indian collaborators should be treated as all collaborators are and not made an exception.
This is such an ignorant and not to mention insulting view. The war was an opportunity for Indian soldiers to build a career and win glory, something many of the same soldiers’ families had done for the EIC, Mughals, and Rajputs. The British Raj was their government, and the nationalist movement actually encouraged service in the war to show Indians’ value to the empire and use it to win concessions.
Building their careers without concern for their actions was exactly what Quisling and the Black confederate soldiers fighting for their slave masters were doing but the history isn’t as sympathetic to them. Most ordinary criminals are basically doing the same. Someone fighting for money on the side of his own tormentor is called a mercenary or collaborator and not a soldier. They fought and killed to force drugs/opium on people, threw poisonous gas on Iraqi civilians and bombed their own in Sind and Gujranwala causing tremendous sufferings worldwide. This most disgraceful part of Indian history is absolutely indefensible and is being done only because they were with victors. BTW this is one part where I am ashamed of some of my ancestors who collaborated at a pretty senior level (for a native “nigger”) @@CatastrophicDisease
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
Just as the sun never set on the British Empire, my notifications will never be turned off this channel. Thank you love the content!
Thanks a lot - very Much appreciated. What other conflicts would you like me to look into in the future?
@@redcoathistory Do the Ynglinga Saga.
It did set, though.
Womp womp.
One more thing , these discussions are useless people's grave have turned to dust. Instead of harking on ur past alleged glories, it is better to coperate with other countries and be one among equals rather than lording over others.
@@third3eye26 No.
Super interesting history. I think the criticism of the Indian army for their performance is quite unwarranted. All armies of the conflict experienced such things. Thank you! Regards from Canada 🇨🇦 Looking forward to the next videos 😊
Cheers Keith...in two weeks I have a war of 1812 video that should be right up your alley.
@@redcoathistory Super! Looking forward to it. Thank you
My Great Grandfather served in the Indian Army Corps, Pte Thomas Smyth from Clogheen, County Tipperary, Ireland. He served with the 1st Connaught Rangers, Ferozepore Brigade, 3rd Lahore Division.. very proud of him
Thanks for sharing. You should certainly be very proud.
My great grandfather served in the British Indian Army in German East Africa & Mesopotamia in WW1. He then settled in Karachi and our family moved to Mumbai after partition. Very proud of him.
You should be very proud. Thanks for sharing.
My granddad served in ww2 and had nothing but good words about the Indian army
I heard from my grandfather that the Indian troops suffered terribly due to the weather on the western front,, quite understandable
They did indeed. But they stayed put - even when they were gassed.
At Loos, in 1915, The Lahore Division died where it stood.
Our Indian (and modern-day)Pakistani comrades were superb soldiers.
Subtropical uniforms in a November of northerly Europe!
In addition, a fraction of the artillery of the Germans!
Hello, I love watching your channel and is very informative. The amount of research you do is Fantastic. Please make a video on Monsieur Raymond who was a very good friend of The Nizam of Hyderabad. I would love to watch that video as I am a native of Hyderabad, India. Thanks and keep up the Good Work.
Many thanks, Sir. A Great suggestion and I will have a look if it is possible. Are there any good links and sources you advise?
Superb stuff ...
How on earth must wilcox have felt ,amidst all this ..
Thanks Redcoat military history.
A great story guys
A very well made video. Much love from India. Subscribed
Many thanks
@@redcoathistory hahaha no thank you. Already saved a few more to watch later.
The the Indians had done their job in NW Europe and were moved to Egypt for what would become the Egyptian Expeditionary Force. This had great success 1917-18 under General Allenby in the defeat of the Turks in the Levant
Sikh Mountain Gunners and other Indians supported the ANZACs at Gallipoli
My father was a member of the 2/19th Battalion AIF, during the defence of Singapore he was placed alongside a machine gunner to protect the gunner and next to him lay the body of a Sikh soldier who had been in the same position before my father
Read the delaying actions of Sikh battalions in the battle of Malaya in WW2. Tried to slow down and Japanese advance outgunned and numbered
@@wavavoom
Read about the Battle on the Bakri Parit Sulong Road Malaya January 1942 when the 2/29th Battalion AIF and 2/19th Battalion AIF, together with remnants of the Indian 45th Brigade who had been overrun at Muar, held the Imperial Guards Division
Best description of this virtually unknown and forgotten battle are found in 2/29th Battalion history
Sikhs are bloody great soldiers
The 4th & 5th Indian Divs fought gallantly along side the Kiwis 2NZDIV in N.Africa & Italy. Few know the famous Op Supercharge part of Alamein that broke the Axis line was suggested, planned & executed by 2NZDIV & the 5th Indian Div. This after 18th Indian Brigade sacrificed itself stopping Rommel at Alamein 3 months earlier.
Smuts stated that when they went to war with the British in 1899 they were hoping that it would ignite a Rebellion in India that would tie the British down.
I once saw in Dunnhil's book of pipes that the Indian soldiers made earthen pipes for hashish on the edge of the trenches, do you know that? Really good lecture👍👍👍
Hi Jan, I hadn't heard that. Thanks for sharing. An interesting tidbit.
Good job Chris and David. Good to hear about a bunch of lads from India which is not really brought to light much. I appreciate this...
You will know the original Assassin Sect got its name from the Arabic word for "hashish-user."
Great subject mate, thanks for sharing.
Thanks, i am really glad you enjoyed it. I must do a film on the Portuguese in WW1 one day!
The Indian troops are unsung heroes. In WW2 they fought in every theatre with distinction. Few remember that on 1-7-42, a green Indian unit, the 18th Brigade, fought on surrounded by the 21st Panzer Div at Dier el Shein. On day one of Rommel's push for Cairo they saved the Army by holding out for 24hrs, allowing Auchinlek a day to plan & respond. Then 5,000miles away a mixed Indian unit again saved the day v the last Japanese land offensive U-Go, attacking into India at Imphal & Kohima, mid 1944.
Hey another brilliant video. Have you ever listened to Folorn Hope brilliant band.
Thanks a lot - yes I love Forlorn Hope. They have also been on my audio podcast in the past also. Chris Simpson, the lead singer is now a mate. Are you a fan?
@@redcoathistory yes absolutely love them, the combine 2 of my favourite things, Military history and rock 😁
Just a Request , Could you cover the Baluch Regiments and Units of the British Indian Army since They don't get any coverage
Many thanks, Sir. A Great suggestion and I will have a look if it is possible. Are there any good links and sources you advise?
There are some books on it and I read most from wiki and paul von lettock vorbeck said that 129th Duke of Connaught's Own Baluchis were very good.@@redcoathistory
Other thing I suggest is avoiding Pakistani authors after 1971 since they try to change the history of the regiment and its demographics to Punjabi @@redcoathistory
one book you could read Sir, I suggest this as History of the Baloch Regiment : (1820-1939), the colonial period
Ahmed, Rafiuddin Maj. Gen. and I apologize for my bad english since Its my third language @@redcoathistory
Very intelligent and sensitive video... Thanks
Many thanks.
They failed at Festubert and Aubers Ridge, batt med officers reporting incredible numbers of self inflicted wounds mainly shooting thumbs and forefingers off.Check the official war office photographs of Indian casualties coming down the lines with bandaged right hands.
There are some great pictures of wounded Indians being looked after in the Royal Pavillion at Brighton , I don't know if it was because people here imagined the average Indian soldier was accustomed to living in palatial surroundings but it does look quite luxurious there .
Great video thank, possibly its a bit nich, but would be fantastic to to hear about the NZ wars
Noted! - I am keen to talk about them in the future.
@@redcoathistory Thank you, I appreciate its possibly quite hard to research, as even in NZ its largely unknown (deliberately in a lot of cases) but it's a fascinating story. I don't think there's really anything on TH-cam that does the wars justice and its really the height of the the clash of Polynesian and british. Anyway thanks again and if there's anything we can do to help would be awesome!
Thank you for sharing 🙏🏾
Many thanks
Would it have made more sense to keep them in the middle east campaign?
Yes, it would, and after 1915 that is exactly where the Indian Divisions were deployed, save for some of the Indian Cavalry Divisions which were retained in Europe until much later.
The problem in 1914 and 1915 is that the pre War British Army was a small, professional Army. The German Army was a largely conscript Army. This meant the British Army simply did not have the depth of reserves (men with some prior military service who could be called up and retrained quickly). They had to build their army from scratch. And that took time. Until those new freshly raised troops were trained though, Britain needed Manpower on the Western Front....
As it happened, the Indian Army was a source of already trained and in many cases combat experienced soldiers. It is true they lacked the heavy weapons of the British, but there was nothing wrong with the soldiers, and Britain desperately needed soldiers on the front line to hold long enough for them to get those new troops currently training ready (about 1.5 million of them).
And so the Indians were thrown in. The biggest problems were not actually equipment or uniforms. Contrary to the belief of some people who have commented here the Indian Army often fought in non tropical conditions, the sub continent is a BIG place. The biggest problems were two in particular.
First is that an Indian Army Battalion was smaller than a British Army Battalion, a fact that many non Indian Army Officers did not realise. A British Army Battalion was around 1000 men assuming it was at full strength, an Indian Army Battalion was around 750 men assuming full strength. Despite the fewer men however they had to hold the same length of line as British Battalions.
The second issue was worse, the British Army had essentially hijacked all the still serving British Indian Army Officers it could. This was a problem. Why? Communications. You see a British Officer joining the Indian Army would undergo an extensive linguistics course. First they spent to years learning Urdu, which was the lingua franca of the Indian Army at the time. After that they then had to learn the language of the regiment they would be serving with, Gurkhali for a Gurkha officer for example. All of these men were gone, and the officers they were given were leading troops they did not understand culturally, and with whom he could not effectively communicate.
The situation was resolved eventually by posting back and surviving Indian Army Officers from British Regiments, but as you can imagine it caused all sorts of issues. The only reason why it was not worse is that the Indian Officers of an Indian Regiment were all lifers, all promoted through the ranks and were on the whole superb.
Great grandfather served in british indian army was part of fierce khyber rifles
So the Indians saved the British Forces, and the BF saved the Western Front collapsing. No Indians, no battle of Marne....the Germans would have marched through.
Recognition of this contribution lacking, in Britain, in France in history!! Shame
The battle of the Marne was fought 5-12th September 1914, Indian troops only began to land in France on the 26th of September and would onlby get into action in October.
While valuable the British contribution in the battle of the Marne.was small with only 6 divisions compared to the 64 French and 51 German divisions. The critical contribution of the BEF was not the Marne but Ypres later on because by that stage the allied resources were stretched thin over a longer front line.
One thing not mentioned - racism was endemic and deeply ingrained against Indians. I would imagine it would be extremely hard going to die for "people" who thought you were inferior. The whole structure of the British Indian Army was racist. The more intelligent Indian officers and soldiers would have found it excruciatingly difficult to identify with the overall cause and execution of the war.
Please share your sources Ian. Would love to read the first hand accounts you must be referring to.
Will try and find the two books I think Redcoat. Surely, though, you can't argue with the inequitable structure and rank system and the difference in pay. The segment about rifles needing to be changed out at the last minute made me quite ashamed as well. And imagine sending any troops out in the autumn, winter and spring of 1914-15 in their thin khaki cottons, hopeless turbans and silly puttees.@@redcoathistory
likes to views is bad. put a like if you like watching the vid it does not cost you anything at all
Many thanks. All help is great.
Damn the trenches must have stunk 😆
😊
My family from India participated in ww1 and ww2.
It would be difficult for anybody from India to go to Europe and fight a war with weapons that they have never used in their lives nor warm clothes were given to Indian troops. Even clothes boots of dead white soldiers were given to Indian soldiers. Even though stitched these uniforms, clothes have bullet entry and exit marks. Most of Indian soldiers were sent on suicide missions where British troops don't want to go so Indian troops have high casualties.
That is absolutely rubbish they were not sent on suicide missions
Rubbish. The Indian army was a professional fighting force with its own material procurement. In many cases the equipment they were issued was superior to the British troops since their supply channels were different. Are you getting your facts from bollywood films? 😅
They were sikh from punjab not India please describe them as sikh punjabi. Punjab was not part of India at that time .
Stop using Singh/ Kaur title it is ncopy and borrowed from Rajputs😂😂😂.
A copy cat relgion
Ive heard sonmany stoires on Mir Dast and his brother... they were from the khyber side of thr indian empire not Afghanistan. Both illiterate villagers with no link to the emir of Afghanistan.
The conclusion is quite amazing, i would want some more evidence for it that without the Indians the British would not have held their line
Indian had nothing to do with ww1 and 2 but they fight for European politics. Now British thinking they were effective or not 😂😂😂😂😂
Feel free to watch the film and comment on the content.
Lol what are you even trying to say???
ye lookking on the bad sides of them i feel
How so mate?
BS
What is?
That guy's a bit of a bore.
Apologies I will try harder next time.
Whatya want? A songndance?!
He's OK, just very detailed and is an older chap so give him a wide berth.
@@obisan666 I will be cutting him a wide berth, poor old chap. I'd even settle for someone who can talk about a subject without making it boring, tedious and coma-inducing. David Starkey _he is not._
@@obisan666 Nah, boring and repetitive. Great way to make your subject one to be ignored pal.
They were collaborators of their subjugators, the racist British. Indian collaborators should be treated as all collaborators are and not made an exception.
This is such an ignorant and not to mention insulting view. The war was an opportunity for Indian soldiers to build a career and win glory, something many of the same soldiers’ families had done for the EIC, Mughals, and Rajputs. The British Raj was their government, and the nationalist movement actually encouraged service in the war to show Indians’ value to the empire and use it to win concessions.
Building their careers without concern for their actions was exactly what Quisling and the Black confederate soldiers fighting for their slave masters were doing but the history isn’t as sympathetic to them. Most ordinary criminals are basically doing the same.
Someone fighting for money on the side of his own tormentor is called a mercenary or collaborator and not a soldier. They fought and killed to force drugs/opium on people, threw poisonous gas on Iraqi civilians and bombed their own in Sind and Gujranwala causing tremendous sufferings worldwide. This most disgraceful part of Indian history is absolutely indefensible and is being done only because they were with victors.
BTW this is one part where I am ashamed of some of my ancestors who collaborated at a pretty senior level (for a native “nigger”)
@@CatastrophicDisease
Better man than you Gunga Din .
@@BingoFrogstrangler It was exactly the stinking racists like you that I was referring to. Thanks for exposing yourself and helping my argument
Also do share their ethnic composition.
FF and Baluchs were muslims from modern day Pakistan