Used this setup in a test recently. 4G tower was 19 Km away and was able to get a speedtest result with a Ping of 23ms / Upload 42.31 Mbps / Download 34.67 Mbps using a Teltonica RUT240. Land was flat and the tower is elevated in country Victoria.
Yes, this little antenna is very powerful and successful in the industry. Been good for ages, and with a new design that will cover 3.8GHz it'll be good for another decade at least
@@RFShop Does an additional antenna create differences between upload and download speeds? Our download in a brown spot is about 40Mbps. Upload < 4 Mbps. The single external yagi is inside the house right now and looking to buy another. Why is our DL and UL so different. EXCELLENT video for us simple people. I am an IT person but not a communications engineer.
John, yes indeed. This type of modem requires its own SIM- card. Ideally we’d like to reach a point where we can test all three networks and their respective modems as well.
Laagan na PANDA, I often see improvements when there is no line-of-sight. What every directional antenna does is shifting the gain / focus towards a particular direction. The surroundings don’t change because of the antenna...the way the system can receive improves in a particular direction. Do note, however, that this also means the system is “weaker” in the opposite direction.
Laagan na PANDA In general I prefer the slightly lower gain LPDA over parabolic dishes. It might not be the best option for your situation though, so feel free to provide more context / background via email.
@@RFShop do you have any Facebook account sir I'm always active there ....i want to learn about these things, because some products here are substandard or not original label they put ...
@@RFShop what are the pros and cons of higher dBi antenna ??? In my location the tower is maximum of 3kms away what best Antenna should i use ??? And many trees by the way
@@RFShop cool thanks very much. I want to build a system like in your video, but it's going to be mobile. For camping etc. Thanks a lot, keep up the good work on the videos.
Hi Andy, the RSRP readings were not that ground-breaking. A follow-up study I am doing needs to address this very topic. I found that the gully environment is very unpredictable. In theory I can get connections to 3 base stations, so in trying to understand if I'm looking at a reflected or direct signal, and from which tower becomes quite a difficult experiment. It was hard to see a proper presentable difference between MIMO and SISO. My plan is to go to a location where there is clearly only one base station available. By eliminating a lot of the unknowns from the network I hope to be able to demonstrate a good result clearly showing a difference between MIMO and SISO.
@@RFShop I too want to know the answer to one antenna vs two. So I am confused by your reply. Was the single antenna just as good or almost as good as two ?
@@jima7925 He said there is no much difference in his environment but he believes multiple antenna will give better result. Fun fact: may be business issue, If he tells the truth you might buy only one antenna instead of two.
Hey, I was wondering if using the rabbit ear antennas that comes with the Huawei or Tplink MR150 lte routers is it best to position them upwards or slightly tilted to the sides? Thanks
Beste Stephan. In my opinion it's a variable you can try to play with, but one does need to be careful as they are omn-directional antennas and turning them on their sides (or at least an angle) means you make the antenna look up and down like a frisbee going sideways. You will need to try and have the two antennas be tangential to the direction you're trying to face and that can be quite hard.
Since the video I learned a lot more. I would typically use a map (such as Cell Mapper or any local database) to learn where local towers are. Then I would use signal strength from my modem to “hunt” for the strongest position in that direction. It may require a reset of the link a few times if you try to look for different towers (which is something I did not yet do on the earlier videos)
Since they are orthogonal to each other the distance is less of an issue. See what is practical. I would use around 500mm. If the antennas have the same orientation you want some proper spacing. At 700MHz I would also say at least 500mm. Also to avoid coupking between the antennas. Higher (and smaller) frequencies can be less.
Hello I have a question. From the USA using a quectel ec35-af modem. It does not have carrier aggregation but it has MIMO. I always thought these two were the same? What's the difference between the carrier aggregation and mimo? Also, I already have one antenna in my roof. A poynting ldpa-92. I already get 30 mbps down with this antenna. Will I see higher speed if I get another antenna for MIMO and will it be worth it? Thanks
Hi Alberteezy, There's a lot of good (and perhaps not so good :)) information online about the difference between Carrier Aggregation and MIMO. It does also depend on how the modem software deals with the incoming signal via the two antennas, so there's a large portion of this relying on the modem firmware. However, in basic principle Carrier Aggregation means that multiple carriers can be used to improve bandwidth. MIMO is often more focused on improving the reliability and quality of the incoming signal and may not guarantee a higher throughput. Better quality could translate into higher throughput, but that's when modem and specific network circumstances also start to play a significant role. Not sure if this helps at all though :(
Hi there. Over here in NZ we are in a bit of a black spot with RSRP: -109dBm with a single yagi out of our Huawei. Downloads are fine at 50Mbps. Uploads are typically < 3Mbps. Did you see this same behavior?
@@Alex-un5tl actually, during the Helium hype earlier this year I learned there are ways to request this feature. On Optus you can request it, but they ask some awkward questions before allowing it, and it's a $5 monthly fee. I believe it was also possible via Telstra, but you just need to discuss the reason for a public IP with them (on the phone)
The key requirement for MIMO diversity is to make sure the antennas are "orthogonal" to each other. That means they are 90dgr relative to each other. Both antennas will then, in theory, receive and transmit completely independent signals. The question on whether 45dgr is better than vertical and horisontal is actually an ongoing debate. I have seen experienced academia saying it's not mandatory to have the antennas at 45dgr, but I believe it has some clear advantages. 1. The base stations transmit plus/minus 45dgr, so why would we not simply try to match that orientation 2. At 45dgr the reflections have a very interesting behaviour, as the direct wave remains at 45dgr but reflected waves turn to min 45dgr. That's one simple way to reduce fading issues. Because of Point 1 and 2 above, I am always in favour or doing MIMO in plus / min 45dgr orientation.
RFShop Hi I’m curious what effect the vertical separation of the two antennae has. I’ve seen some setups like yours and where the two are right next to each other. What’s the best configuration in your opinion?
@@lioubine indeed a question that gets asked a lot with no clear exact answer. I know that Dr. Andre Fourie from Poynting recons at least 500mm seperation in one of their videos. Also, try to use vertical separation on open plains and horisontal separation in urban canyons and where there's reflections from the sides. I do believe that more separation is better, but I do think it is situation specific. The LPDA bracket that Poynting offers (we did a video on that) has the two LPDA's right next to each other, so spacing is nearly non-existent, and MIMO completely relies on the polarisation. Long story short...I believe we need to find a good open plain where the signal is weak and I know / understand where the signal comes from. Then a set of tests to check the theory is needed. A great topic for a new video!
Hello does having a MIMO antenna reduces the latency? During the day i get around 200ms on latency., I have to wait till midnight onwards to have around 80ms.,
Hi, latency is part of the complete network configuration. A bad RF connection will most certainly cause trouble on latency, but I can't really comment on how much improvement you can get with a good MIMO antenna. What you can control with a good MIMO antenna is an improved RSRP, RSRQ and probably SINR. That in turn, will allow the network to improve you connection and hence will probably benefit latency. However, we (as antenna designers) can't control that parameter, unfortunately
I guess you mean that you are in theory blocked by a double storey house? I would say that such an onstruction could cause lots of trouble, but there shoukd be a lot of reflections that might offer some improvement.
@@RFShop yes, from where Im staying there are 2 storey houses infront which blocks the tower(to my knowledge) which is about 5-6km. Im thinking to use either a yagi type or MIMO antenna, which do you think be a good fit for my area?
@@josiahariston8420 it is a hard question to answer easy on a public forum. Every setup is unique. I woukd go for highr gain antennas, but if there is a way to elevate your antennas that would be best. I’ll be uploading a video on this topic later this week.
If this relates to the Cel-Fi boosters, there’s no real benefit in using two antennas. One would need to go through a combiner, and it’s still a single RF chain then, albeit with components from both polarisations. I would simply usea single antenna for a single port antenna.
I heard setting them up att1 at 12:00 and att2 at 3:00 with a meter distance between and then set up att3 at 10:30 and att4 at 1:30 again with the distance of a meter apart also would help with the signal fall off at distance, is this true and what would be required for such a setup
Hi Keith, are you referring to nautical directions? I would not change the direction, as your link should always be into one sector / base station only. Pointing antennas in various directions would mean it's all in different locations.
What about the third test? Did the 525 work with only one external antenna? Thank you.
Used this setup in a test recently. 4G tower was 19 Km away and was able to get a speedtest result with a Ping of 23ms / Upload 42.31 Mbps / Download 34.67 Mbps using a Teltonica RUT240. Land was flat and the tower is elevated in country Victoria.
Yes, this little antenna is very powerful and successful in the industry. Been good for ages, and with a new design that will cover 3.8GHz it'll be good for another decade at least
@@RFShop Does an additional antenna create differences between upload and download speeds? Our download in a brown spot is about 40Mbps. Upload < 4 Mbps. The single external yagi is inside the house right now and looking to buy another. Why is our DL and UL so different.
EXCELLENT video for us simple people. I am an IT person but not a communications engineer.
Hey. Thank you. Does modem use a SIM card to connect to the mobile broadband network?
John, yes indeed. This type of modem requires its own SIM- card. Ideally we’d like to reach a point where we can test all three networks and their respective modems as well.
You must include the SINR it helps a lot....
and is LPDA antenna need to be Line of Sight from your location to the tower ?
Laagan na PANDA, I often see improvements when there is no line-of-sight. What every directional antenna does is shifting the gain / focus towards a particular direction. The surroundings don’t change because of the antenna...the way the system can receive improves in a particular direction. Do note, however, that this also means the system is “weaker” in the opposite direction.
@@RFShop im confused what to buy .... An Parabolic 24dbi or Ultra Gemini or LPDA 16dbi hmmmm by the way I'm using B525-65a router from Huawei
Laagan na PANDA In general I prefer the slightly lower gain LPDA over parabolic dishes. It might not be the best option for your situation though, so feel free to provide more context / background via email.
@@RFShop do you have any Facebook account sir I'm always active there ....i want to learn about these things, because some products here are substandard or not original label they put ...
@@RFShop what are the pros and cons of higher dBi antenna ???
In my location the tower is maximum of 3kms away what best Antenna should i use ??? And many trees by the way
Great video. What is the name/brand of that telescopic mount you used to mount the antenna on?
Hi…it’s actually just an aluminium pole from our local hardware store Bunnings. They have pool and paint variants
@@RFShop cool thanks very much. I want to build a system like in your video, but it's going to be mobile. For camping etc. Thanks a lot, keep up the good work on the videos.
What was the difference between the MIMO readings and the single antenna readings?
Hi Andy, the RSRP readings were not that ground-breaking. A follow-up study I am doing needs to address this very topic. I found that the gully environment is very unpredictable. In theory I can get connections to 3 base stations, so in trying to understand if I'm looking at a reflected or direct signal, and from which tower becomes quite a difficult experiment. It was hard to see a proper presentable difference between MIMO and SISO.
My plan is to go to a location where there is clearly only one base station available. By eliminating a lot of the unknowns from the network I hope to be able to demonstrate a good result clearly showing a difference between MIMO and SISO.
@@RFShop I too want to know the answer to one antenna vs two. So I am confused by your reply. Was the single antenna just as good or almost as good as two ?
@@jima7925 He said there is no much difference in his environment but he believes multiple antenna will give better result. Fun fact: may be business issue, If he tells the truth you might buy only one antenna instead of two.
Hey,
I was wondering if using the rabbit ear antennas that comes with the Huawei or Tplink MR150 lte routers is it best to position them upwards or slightly tilted to the sides?
Thanks
Beste Stephan. In my opinion it's a variable you can try to play with, but one does need to be careful as they are omn-directional antennas and turning them on their sides (or at least an angle) means you make the antenna look up and down like a frisbee going sideways. You will need to try and have the two antennas be tangential to the direction you're trying to face and that can be quite hard.
Any suggestions on how to point it in the right direction ?
Since the video I learned a lot more. I would typically use a map (such as Cell Mapper or any local database) to learn where local towers are.
Then I would use signal strength from my modem to “hunt” for the strongest position in that direction. It may require a reset of the link a few times if you try to look for different towers (which is something I did not yet do on the earlier videos)
What is the best width or height between the two antennas???
Since they are orthogonal to each other the distance is less of an issue. See what is practical. I would use around 500mm.
If the antennas have the same orientation you want some proper spacing. At 700MHz I would also say at least 500mm. Also to avoid coupking between the antennas. Higher (and smaller) frequencies can be less.
@@RFShop ok i have them at 20cm but got a gain of 14
Hello I have a question. From the USA using a quectel ec35-af modem. It does not have carrier aggregation but it has MIMO. I always thought these two were the same? What's the difference between the carrier aggregation and mimo? Also, I already have one antenna in my roof. A poynting ldpa-92. I already get 30 mbps down with this antenna. Will I see higher speed if I get another antenna for MIMO and will it be worth it? Thanks
Hi Alberteezy,
There's a lot of good (and perhaps not so good :)) information online about the difference between Carrier Aggregation and MIMO. It does also depend on how the modem software deals with the incoming signal via the two antennas, so there's a large portion of this relying on the modem firmware.
However, in basic principle Carrier Aggregation means that multiple carriers can be used to improve bandwidth. MIMO is often more focused on improving the reliability and quality of the incoming signal and may not guarantee a higher throughput. Better quality could translate into higher throughput, but that's when modem and specific network circumstances also start to play a significant role.
Not sure if this helps at all though :(
Hi there. Over here in NZ we are in a bit of a black spot with RSRP: -109dBm with a single yagi out of our Huawei. Downloads are fine at 50Mbps. Uploads are typically < 3Mbps. Did you see this same behavior?
hi RFShop, thank you for the great channel, is there a mobile broadband that offers to opt out of CG-Nat? thanks
Actually not sure. What network operator / country are you in ?
@@RFShop planing to move to au, does not look look like any of the big 3 offer public IPs for the customers how do you overcome this issue for yours?
@@Alex-un5tl actually, during the Helium hype earlier this year I learned there are ways to request this feature. On Optus you can request it, but they ask some awkward questions before allowing it, and it's a $5 monthly fee. I believe it was also possible via Telstra, but you just need to discuss the reason for a public IP with them (on the phone)
Can mimo setup 45 degree angle help better Reception ?
The key requirement for MIMO diversity is to make sure the antennas are "orthogonal" to each other. That means they are 90dgr relative to each other. Both antennas will then, in theory, receive and transmit completely independent signals.
The question on whether 45dgr is better than vertical and horisontal is actually an ongoing debate. I have seen experienced academia saying it's not mandatory to have the antennas at 45dgr, but I believe it has some clear advantages.
1. The base stations transmit plus/minus 45dgr, so why would we not simply try to match that orientation
2. At 45dgr the reflections have a very interesting behaviour, as the direct wave remains at 45dgr but reflected waves turn to min 45dgr. That's one simple way to reduce fading issues.
Because of Point 1 and 2 above, I am always in favour or doing MIMO in plus / min 45dgr orientation.
RFShop Hi I’m curious what effect the vertical separation of the two antennae has. I’ve seen some setups like yours and where the two are right next to each other. What’s the best configuration in your opinion?
@@lioubine indeed a question that gets asked a lot with no clear exact answer.
I know that Dr. Andre Fourie from Poynting recons at least 500mm seperation in one of their videos. Also, try to use vertical separation on open plains and horisontal separation in urban canyons and where there's reflections from the sides. I do believe that more separation is better, but I do think it is situation specific.
The LPDA bracket that Poynting offers (we did a video on that) has the two LPDA's right next to each other, so spacing is nearly non-existent, and MIMO completely relies on the polarisation.
Long story short...I believe we need to find a good open plain where the signal is weak and I know / understand where the signal comes from. Then a set of tests to check the theory is needed. A great topic for a new video!
Hello does having a MIMO antenna reduces the latency?
During the day i get around 200ms on latency.,
I have to wait till midnight onwards to have around 80ms.,
Hi, latency is part of the complete network configuration. A bad RF connection will most certainly cause trouble on latency, but I can't really comment on how much improvement you can get with a good MIMO antenna. What you can control with a good MIMO antenna is an improved RSRP, RSRQ and probably SINR. That in turn, will allow the network to improve you connection and hence will probably benefit latency. However, we (as antenna designers) can't control that parameter, unfortunately
@@RFShop hello I didn't noticed yout reply last month, thank you., I'll try getting one someday.
Hi! Will houses with 2nd floors be a significant interference facing the antenna to cell site/towers?
I guess you mean that you are in theory blocked by a double storey house?
I would say that such an onstruction could cause lots of trouble, but there shoukd be a lot of reflections that might offer some improvement.
@@RFShop yes, from where Im staying there are 2 storey houses infront which blocks the tower(to my knowledge) which is about 5-6km.
Im thinking to use either a yagi type or MIMO antenna, which do you think be a good fit for my area?
@@josiahariston8420 it is a hard question to answer easy on a public forum. Every setup is unique. I woukd go for highr gain antennas, but if there is a way to elevate your antennas that would be best. I’ll be uploading a video on this topic later this week.
Curious what you are using (software) to read the results?
I used the admin back-end of the modem in this video
Can I use two antennas if my booster has only one input port? Will splitter adaptor work?
If this relates to the Cel-Fi boosters, there’s no real benefit in using two antennas. One would need to go through a combiner, and it’s still a single RF chain then, albeit with components from both polarisations. I would simply usea single antenna for a single port antenna.
I have 4 wires antenna and my modem has 2 female insert, can I use 4 antenna using splitter and it is working?
It really does depend on what type of antennas they are. Are they the correct frequency? Happy to assist you via email...see our website
Can you explain the quad setup
I heard setting them up att1 at 12:00 and att2 at 3:00 with a meter distance between and then set up att3 at 10:30 and att4 at 1:30 again with the distance of a meter apart also would help with the signal fall off at distance, is this true and what would be required for such a setup
Hi Keith, are you referring to nautical directions? I would not change the direction, as your link should always be into one sector / base station only. Pointing antennas in various directions would mean it's all in different locations.
you cut the test out with just 1 antenna
I probably need to redo this video completely as I learned a lot about how to test and talk about these things since shooting that video !!
Would have been better to show the actual signals and speed test in real time.
Yes...this video was early days on this channel. You may see we've learned a lot about how to do these types of videos since that one.
@@RFShop That's understandable. :-)
nice one this what im looking for thx frmch 🫡
Thank you :)