Level Up! How fast is TOO fast in D&D & Pathfinder?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2024
- In episode #115, Professor Dungeonmaster discusses the speed of character advancement. How fast is too fast in D&D and Pathfinder? PDM offers some insight into this critical facet of the game.
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Music:
"Fury of the Dragon's Breath" by Peter Crowley
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Delightful topic. In my decades of DMing and playing, the speed of levelling always feels"too slow for players patience, and too fast for the DMs pace".
In my old ADnD campaign, I had a Rogue4/Wizard3. Because the others wanted a fresh start and I didn't want to start all over AGAIN (I played a Wizard before, and it took ages to get to that level) I agreed to not gain xp until they reached my level.
After 7 years I am still Rogue4/Wizard3 XD
Nail on the head right here.
Yup. As DM I love super slow leveling. However, I just finished up a Pathfinder AP with my wife and kids. I used the AP level up suggestions. It was fast. They were leveling up every couple sessions. Fun for them, but now they are starting on my home brewed campaign and they will move super slow.
Dragonshade Studio I love that 3-5 zone and the high teens too
Always.
like you say:
Reward them with contacts and rumors and ethos/sanity points, not XP! Just had a 6 hr session yesterday with only 100 XP and 3d6 sp in the whole dungeon they cleared and sent out to the party and they were pleased. I handed them out contacts and rumors when they returned to town instead and they were SOOO pleased. You're the man. We are having so much fun running an adaptation of your caves of carnage. Thanks for keeping me and my friends busy and entertained and connected.
Thanks for your kind words, Peter. Pass it on!
Surely one of the most radical professors at the university, with controversial opinions that verge on blasphemy, Prof DM always brings the fire to each and every lecture!!! Two enthusiastic thumbs up! 👍
I'm the Gnome Chomsky of Dungeon U.
Dungeon Craft I was thinking the same thing!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Ouch!
Tom Young oh yeah
Dungeon Craft ha!
I love how much you talk about Conan. Running a Hyborian Age campaign right now, and hands-down Howard is one of the best authors for any DM to read!
Totally with you on levelling up. I like players to level up when they AT LEAST know every ability they have off by heart, but have been forced to use the skills they have in multiple creative ways, as well as have tried to use the character in ways that they are not yet proficient.
This allows them the time and space to be creative with what they have at their disposal, which is what learning and growth are all about.
Really like this comment. Get creative with your character. If they don't take risks or challenge themselves they don't deserve to level up.
This is also a reason why I love the Xanathar's Guide regardless of what system you are using. It has great random tables available for events that may have happened in your character's life as well as how they grew up and even immediate family/NPC contacts that the DM/GM can use to create story hooks with.
I realllllly like how you put it for the experience thing; the quicker you level, the closer you get to ending the game, or that character.
I use Forbidden Lands and that game has no levels. Just XP points that you can use to by Skills or Talents. It leads to a more wide advancement instead the tall advancement of DnD. I really like it so far. It's more about 'normal' characters learning some new life skills to help them survive instead of become demi-godlike murder machines and hitpoint bags.
anyways thanks for the channel as always!
Thanks for telling me about Forbidden Lands. I'm going to have to look into it!
3 years later.. How did that turn out?
not sure if you're asking me or dungeoncraft, but I love running Forbidden Lands, it made for a very different type of game. Some of the greatest adventures we had ended up with the PC huddled up in a tent hiding from a snow storm, completly lost and almost out of food and firewood.@@helixxharpell
Slower leveling is better for a solid, dedicated group. Thanks for the video.
You're very welcome!
You had me at "Star Wars model and Star Trek model." Huge fan, love the videos!!!
Your nerd is showing, Professor! Like it wasn't already...
Fully agree! As a player, I really enjoy low level games, where the possibilities are endless and death is always near.
I slash at the TH-cam algorithm to promote this channel !
Love the content Professor and I did guess correctly with the Conan book, which I promptly purchased after your mention of it in a previous episode.
Thank you for your time, your channel and sharing your experiences, I’m a huge fan
Too many people want to level fast, you just wind up starting over a lot when you do that in my experience as well.
especially when you play with people who have too much free time on their hands who demanded playing tier 3 and wont settle with less then 6 hours of play. sorry for the rant :D
@@tomoyuukinue2185 I don't even know what tier 3 is. I do get a lot of people who don't like playing at level 1 but I find that level to be the most fun, personally.
Its lvl 11-17 I think. And I agree with you. Starting at lvl 1 is fun and I like to do so for my sandbox game
My group has the issue that we all have demanding jobs and kids and other responsibilities. We’re lucky if we get 4-5 hours twice a month. So if we did slow play and always started at level 1 there’d never be anything but tier 1 play.
@@wisebloodj1 My group has the same problem it's just we play play DCC and low level DCC characters only go up to level 10.
A 2nd level DCC character is on par with a level 5 D&D character in my opinion.
Starting my first campaign soon, this was really helpful, thanks PDM 🤙
TL;DR You may want to practice scales a bit before jumping into Jazz.
The Prof. is the Coltrane of DnD.
No disrespect to the Prof., but remember to take his content with a grain of salt. Not so much this video as his others. He is very, very experienced and has many strong beliefs about the game that many others do not share. He is, in part, making huge changes to many core mechanics to mix things up and keep the game interesting; to minimize what he dislikes a d maximize what he likes. You will too, once you have some time behind the screen under your belt. But to new DMs, initially at least, I always reccomend trying to grasp the system as it is, warts and all and see how it works. Once you see how the game runs as a baseline, then start trying stuff out.
Awesome video, as always !!
In 5e I tend to halve the xp suggestion given by the challenge rating and instead award additional xp based on achieved story milestones, good to, involvement in cool situations. That usually seems to give a good pace and allow me to throw more scary monsters at them without rushing through all the levels and them getting too powerful for the story to make sense.
Like this, they level up about every 5 or 6 sessions, still fight every session & resulting in about 2 or 3 months per level. That seems to feed their loot and ability hungry soul as well as allowing a story to evolve even that slowly takes on a grander and grander scale.
Great ideas. Thanks for sharing!
I am an AL DM because I love the continuity the players can have with their characters between groups. I do appreciate your opinions on things and I'm trying to get away from a staunch rules lawyer. Your channel reminds me it's about the players having fun and not running the "perfect legal" game of DnD. Thanks for all the hard work!
I think it's fine to level up at the normal in-book pace as long as you have something to provide after Level 20 when they reach it, or a nice reward between levels. Two weeks ago, The DM Lair made a video presenting various ideas for loot and rewards, such as areas of land, or plot-relevant items, or backstory-based plot hooks. Even items that don't really help you, but are generally fun to mess around with.
Further ideas were proposed in the comment sections of that video. There was even the suggestion of allowing spellcasters to work on new homebrew spells. One example I could see is one that was unrelated to this idea, "Create Robe Patch". This spell was found on D&DBeyond and was made 1st-level, but I think it should be a 2nd or 3rd-level spell. It basically allows you to turn an object or creature into a patch to put on the Robe of Useful Items, and the higher the slot you used to cast it, the higher the weight/size/CR limit on things you can turn into patches.
Give your players something to achieve other than just becoming more powerful or completing the story. That's really as simple as it gets.
My campaign has been on going on for a little more than a year it’s been going good all thanks to your channels and channels like yours thank you
feeding the algorithm to support my favorite DM's tips channel!
Been playing for 43 years (not a typo). You're spot on. Players love a story driven game because they love the stories that entice them to play. Pace it so everyone enjoys the play and everyone wins. It takes time to figure out. Patience is the key. Be patient. Be kind. The result will be beautiful.
@ 0:37 "... It's better to go too slow than too fast ..."
I could not agree more, Professor !!! 100% SPOT ON ! ✔ 👍😊 As is your assertion @ 1:43 "the DM is the most important Player in your game." 😃
I have won State competitions and DM'd for 5 or 6 Players for decades and I know the workload needed to DM. I love every minute, but there's a lot of work. 😵
Early on (Levels 1-3) ALL dice rolls are on the table in my games. Only after that do I consider rolling 'behind the screen' as need dictates... 😉 M 🦘🏏😎
Thanks for your kind works. Since we agree, I'd like to know your thoughts on this observation: "A DM is not a storyteller. We do not design stories, we design conflicts." That's the subject of a future video and I'd like your opinion.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Mate, I am in total conflict (pun intended) with the observation. Even a movie about fights such as "Fight Club" has an engaging story.
A series of conflicts without cohesion / story is just dice rolling. I always come back to the basic question for the Players - WHY are they having the conflict? THAT drives the game for me as DM and Player. I could go on and on..... 😉
Thanks for the opportunity to provide my opinion, Professor ! 🙏😔 M 🦘🏏😎
I just come here these days to have my opinions confirmed and validated. Top notch DM and Player advice as usual, Professor. All these perspectives aren't just practical, they enhance enjoyment of the game. These are things most older DMs know, but wish they'd known decades ago. These mini-lectures are absolute gold. Everyone except perhaps min-maxers or power gamers aught to be subbed to this channel with the bell checked, it is as essential as the DMG of any edition.
Great stuff as always Professor DM. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with the world.
Great advice for beginning and "super expert" Dungeon Masters! I wish TH-cam had a rating system, so I could give this video 5 stars.
Your videos provide some seriously awesome information. I've run a couple games for some friends and frankly, they went badly. But all the advice you give in your videos has gotten me excited to run another campaign. Thank you for everything you're doing with your channel.
Your points are especially true in the light of the truth that levelling up is illusory in the first place.
Feeding the algorithm, I hope your videos reach more DMs!
Good episode, thanks. I started with Red Box in 1980 so slow leveling is normal to me. In my current game (Basic Fantasy rules, much like B/X) it took six sessions for the first PCs to make 2nd level (not all did, I use uneven xp leveling by class), and it will be quite a while before anyone makes 3rd (I'm going to be more stingy with the xp). But they're having a blast because they love the STORY we're telling together. I give xp mostly for achieving goals and good roleplaying, though there's plenty of combat too. The base setting is a modest sized border town where most of the NPCs who aren't 0-level "normal men(/women)" are just 1st or 2nd level (except the Blue Sorceress, a patron/mentor NPC and a couple of old retired fighters) so it's going to be a low-powered campaign for a long while. I agree that the most fun is to be had between 1st level and 7th-8th level.
My GM is in the process of reviewing all your videos, at my request, to begin incorporating many of your ideas into our game. My kids will be playing now as well. Thank you for the support and encouragement you give all aspiring GMs and players.
I love your advice Professor Dungeon Master, thank you SOOO much for bringing me such fun!
The higher ratio of Level 3 vs. Level 1 characters isn't surprising to me. I personally tend to favor starting new campaigns with semi-seasoned adventurers, and 3rd level is usually my launching point. This creates room for the players to write backstories that are a little more interesting and colored with heroic deeds. Mechanically, it also allows me to use a more varied selection of monsters without fear of killing the PCs outright.
Very cool. This is the kind of DM guidance I watch this channel for. Thank you.
You're very welcome. Next week is dealing with evil player actions. Stay tuned!
I don't think you've made a bad video! I enjoy each one and don't feel at the end that I wasted my time. Thank you!
I had, for many years, always fallen into a trap of starting games at 1st level and by session 4 I just wanted the characters to be able to do something so I'd rapid level them to 5th level. This was usually in 3.5e.
Some time ago, I discovered your channel and started to listen to a lot of your advice on DMing and I adopted some of your concepts. Nowadays I like to start my campaigns at level 10, but treat it like 1st level. I up the difficulty similar to how you've described doing it, and I make the monsters smarter and more capable of killing the players. I've found that plenty of players have become repeat customers because they feel like their character can do something, but they also feel that fear. It's really eye opening for them when at their level, there are still beings in the game world that can paralyze without giving them a save, or monsters that can pummel them into the dirt if they're not careful.
Thank you Prof. for teaching me how to fix a lot of bad DM habits that 20 years doing things the same way had etched into my games. This video has also helped me, because now that I've adopted your XP system (the 1 - 5 xp per adventure/session and 10xp + milestone to level up) I've found that the power creep of the players has reduced dramatically.
It would be great to see a video on how to adapt modern class concepts into the blue cover AD&D edition. I love that version of the game the best, and I'd love to get a lot of friends who grew up with Pathfinder and beyond more interested in it by allowing them to play some of their favorite modern classes and races in the older rule set.
I really like this, buddy !! Starting the heroes with some set of cool skills, like they would be Apprentices, Novices... and setting them into a world of danger.
I don’t know how you always manage to provide such great content. Great video
Excellent advice, as always. I really appreciate the Star Wars vs. Star Trek comparison.
I like the philosophy the Professor espouses. There is a lot of experience with him. He leveled up in one video!!
Great insight. I have been running Star Wars adventures for a long time, but they just kept going and and I never ended them so they died out. 2019 I started running a pick up game in our local game shop where people could join/leave any time. It went great, because I had changed to a Star Trek campaign. It began with a bunch of 3rd level characters and most of the characters were only 4-5th by the end of the year. But the story was great and we all enjoyed it no end. Thanks for expressing the campaign types with such a clear example.
It's a classic time sink verse Skinner box. Psychologically, things are devalued in our minds when they come quickly and easily. For instance the Skinner box scenario of pushing a button and getting a treat can give instant gratification but eventually it loses meaning. Whereas when it takes time and effort to achieve things it is common for people to associate those things with higher value and remember them more fondly because of the effort it took to gain.
THIS is the stuff I wish I had said. If I had a staff and I had money, I'd hire you as staff writer.
I had an eight-year D&D game that took my PCs to level 18. Creating anything remote challenging for them was near impossible. What created the great moments was cataclysmic-like events where I simply ruled that this is so powerful it ages the character who sacrifices himself. Having the beloved, human PNPC age fifty years in half an hour of game play was one of the single-most gripping events they had. Peril brings challenge; challenge makes it interesting.
I now have a ten-year-old Hackmaster campaign. My highest-level PC is level ten. I enjoy it; they enjoy it. Less XP has simply made it more enjoyable for everyone.
Great video. One of your best. It feels like you went more in depth than usual and I really enjoyed it..
Our group used to play once a month, but played for 10 hours each session when we did play. I ran a mini campaign where the players levelled up at the start of each session - taking them from 1st to 10th. It worked well for our group.
Really great video! I definitely run a star trek type of campaign with episodic adventures (an "episode" running about 5-6 sessions). I level the party up after every episode because we play every 2 weeks and an adventure can take 3-4 months in real time.
Well handled topic! There's a lot of nuance and points of view. Good to keep in mind that everything depends on the particulars of the situation as you say. I must admit that if I feel inadequate in regards to the adventure I'm DMing I feel I need to give out more levels. Same goes for games I participate in as a player.
I’ve been watching your channel for a while and iI love everything you said. Keep up the great work.
ozomatli280 Thank you. That means a lot to me. I work very hard in a bubble & although views are nice, comments are always more meaningful.
I've been playing the Dishonored games lately and I noticed something. In Dishonored the main character moves from a place of power to a lowly assassin, he loses family and is shunted back to the bottom of the social ladder. If the character is in a place of experience and power they can still have a satisfying hero's journey if they lose that position. Plus it can make a very exciting and interesting introduction.
Interesting topic!
I do a completely homebrew game system in a completely homebrew world called "SinS" (Storms in Sanctuara), I have face-paced players who like to progress quickly and i myself am a face paced dm, though i have learned to slow it down and enjoy my favourite part of d&d - the infiniate possibilities of the mid-level exploration sections.
My setting is sci-fi with fantasy elements, i have run 1 campaign of 30 games with about 4-8 players per game, going from level 1 - 10 (probably equivalent to 3-14 n 5e). The next campaing, we are curently in the middle of and 11 games in. The players are currently level 5, and at this point, i like to slow down the levelling like you mentioned and make each gap between level up periodically longer. This is because, i like to structre my games with a STARWARS sprinkling at the beginning, STARTREK style for (most of) the beginning AND the entire MID point (the largest arc). Before concluding on all the big narrative STARWARS ending from level 8-10, where all the foreshadowing and early stuff finally pays off... Where in this camping they literally have a starship and are travelling between 7 solar systems, this time is great for character development and allows a literal STARTREK style which each planet is almost like a self contained episodical adventure.
But you also have to bare in mind, I have always intended there to be 3 campaigns, set in the same world, and same (evolving) game system, played by the same(ish) players across a 3-5year period in the real world, from level 1-10 in the game world, and with 10year jumps in game between each campaign and group of heros. An amibitious task for a new DM and new group, but we are half way there and no signs of stopping! :D
you hit the head of the nail on a big problem. It also relates to power gamers and people who are a bit competitive in the game.
I had a fifth edition game master runner game with me in it. We reached eighth level before we got to the dungeon. My jaw was dropping. And that game did not last very long.
I’m a fan of you have to do training once you’ve got the experience points. And I will often run an adventure or encounter where the players have to find a teacher who is greater than them him level in order to train them. Oh and they charge
This does two things: helps reduce inflation by removing the gold in their pockets.
The other is the relays they have to have someone in the world who is bigger than them in order to get to that level. And in their subconscious they realize they will always be an NPC or monster bigger than them.
and of course the third thing is they do not get any more experience points until they’ve trained. they can adventure just not get experience for it.
like always you spread good advice. I’m not a fan of hyperbolic leveling. And I’m not a fan of the Highlander style of leveling. (“ there can be only one!” Lightning forms, and suddenly the players another level...)
Great video! The first campaign i DM'd in 5E was 1st-5th level (Lost Mines of Phandelver), and when i started my next campaign, i didn't want the players to go through the process of leveling up to 5 again and i started it at level 6. While it is fun, it's a lot harder for me to challenge the players when they have so much stuff at the ready. They're currently level 8 and approaching the end of the campaign. The next one i do will be back to level 1!
I've always found, as a player, that D&D gets less fun the more toys (skills, spells, weapons, etc.) the characters have. The sense of danger gets pushed back further and further until it just isn't a factor. And that's when I start checking out.
Thats more of a dnd problem though. Usually dm's need to escalate the tension and difficulty in high level, not keep it going on the steady slope going up. High level has so much potential for story and encounter tension.
Good point about the Star Wars and Star Trek models. Great video, as always
I have never played in a D&D campaign. Only a few one-off adventures. I find your videos very interesting and thought provoking. I wish I participated in a group like yours.
Enjoying the older content too👍👍 I actually redid the experience chart.
Cool, thanks
In Pathfinder milestones is an optional rule. You level up with 1000 xp and you gain xp based on how challenging a monster or encounter is based on its relative level to the player characters. The players are assumed to be of equal level to eachother but this is not a requirement to play the system.
The thing I like is that even though you get xp mainly from encounters with npcs, roleplay (it says you SHOULD award xp for good rp) and monsters, you get the xp if you overcome the monster, not if you beat it up. Now most games might assume that that means killing the monster but that's not true.
At least if I am running let's say the Hobbit. The objective of the dwarf party is to get the arkenstone. Bilbo steals it, so the group gets the xp even if the dragon is alive. Also Bilbo defeats the dragon by beating it at riddles and stealing the treasure he needed. He doesn't have to fight the dragon to gain the xp, he gets all that ancient wyrm red dragon cr 21 xp just by talking his way into and out of that cave.
This means that Bard can also claim the same award from the dragon when he kills it (with a thrush assisting him, is that bird a pc I wonder?)
Anyway, this type of system enables players to get the xp award for that one monster multiple times.
This system could also mean that if you succesfully negotiated well with an archdevil of the nine hells, that might give you the xp for defeating it!
Great video as always! My favorite D&D channel!
The collaborative player gets shown love! - Brian.
Feeding the Algorithm here. As heretical your tips are, they are most certainly helpful and I damn near use most of them.
I'm 18 sessions into my current campaign using your XP system you posed in your XP fast and easy video. I really enjoy the system. It's ended up being a fairly quick way to level through tier one. Using a goal in combination of XP allows for the fun of earning something but also presents a clear objective for players. As they increase in level imagine they will need more time to achieve their objectives.
Feeding algorithm!! Also really appreciated this episode. Feeling good stalking out my PCs at level five for a while. I’m glad I went for quest completion levelling and not experience. Gives me much more leeway!
Great lesson PDM, I’m a big fan of both Star Wars and Star Trek methods. For my needs and playing with a younger child, I think the Star Trek episode pathway works best for me. Thanks again for a fantastic video and breaking down exp development
Good points with the best being know your players and make sure you don't go too fast for your DM skill.
As always, great video, great information and great presentation!
Thanks, Adam!
Love this video, I think your channel and @Runehammer go hand in hand when trying to play a game in this style. I pull so much inspiration from you guys!
Thanks again for sharing your wisdom Prof.
I started plying in the 80s and I have a nice collection of minis but I haven't had anyone to game with in 25 years
Nowadays my table is just of a few close friends and guests(gfs, bfs, wives) that grew up with me and my brother playing VTM, Spycraft, AD&D, D&D3, 3.5 and D&D5. They were my first players and I became their first DM. We ended up building world's together. Their high level characters and those low level ones but memorable turned into myths, legends or even gods (specially those from Aded e Ded 3). It's always fun when a given player is praying or asking for divine help of another player's old character... and thats it, players also have to be mature enough to realize that his goals are being fulfilled even when they don't reach level 20, unless their main goal is achieve level 100.
Absolutely! D&D is not my jam, but the same holds true for skill advancement systems. Lower skill acumen = higher tension and drama. Every encounter is potentially lethal. It helps that I use wound levels which, regardless of skill acumen, remain static.Thus, lower skilled and advanced skilled warriors can “hold the gate” side-by-side with an equal chance of succumbing to a strike that breaches their defense skills. I realize, however, that it could well be argued that this luxury comes at the sacrifice of quicker combat.
Though I’m coming late to DC (as mentioned in another comment somewhere on the channel), I’m enjoying the content and style...an anytime you work in Conan-trivia, I’m totally sold 👍.
As usual, great advice, and delivery. Thanks
Thanks this was insightful and reassuring as your thoughts are echoing my style of DMing
It's been almost a year since this was released, but I only recently started watching your channel. I just want to say that I'm enjoying your videos so far - and I'm looking forward to more!
Thank you for your good work, Professor. Your experience and insight elevate and edify the viewer.
Another precisely uploaded video. I was just asking myself this question. My campaign is slow paced too, but not as much as yours, professor. My concern was that I was being too harsh on my players. Then I went to the DMG, since we play 5e, to check what the game expectations for leveling was, and I found out that, on average, it should take 44 sessions of 4 hours each to go from level 1 to 20, being one session to reach level 2, one session to reach level 3, then two sessions to reach level 4, then two or three sessions for each subsequent level.
After all, we are on a good pace, and everyone is enjoying, slower than the DMG, but faster than yours. We've been playing twice a month, for one and a half year, and the players just reached level 6.
I discuss leveling pace with my players in session 0 to make sure we're on the same page. I've ran a mini campaign (8 sessions) where I said at the beginning "you are not leveling up in this game, this is it", and I've also ran a game that after 3 hours of play I leveled up the group.
Also, there is a combination of episodic and saga where you have it episodic but a recurring villain appears occasionally.
Some really good points to ponder in this one. Loved the SW/ST analogy for storytelling. Running games after school for high-schoolers tends toward several low-level groups. Mostly through player request and allows for more character experimentation.
I have DM'd campaigns all the way up to 36th level in the BECMI system. The key is to change the game as you transition from one letter to the next:
Dungeon crawls and known cityscape adventures at B level,
Tentative exploration of alien realms, Travel and foreign/hostile cities at E level play,
Extra planar exploration, Dominion challenges, mass combat, heavy world invenstment and intrigue at C level play,
Extreme planar exploration and challenges, world shifting events, greater mass combat, quest for immortality at M.
Developing campaigns with the DM in a challenging way, playing mortal identities at I level play.
The only real difficulty, is if you try to keep the game the same as you move through different scales of play.
and I get that if you are not used to doing modules/adventures at these other levels you will feel like a fish out of water for a bit, but wasnt that the same when you started DMing in the first place with dungeon crawls? Nothing insurmountable.
Looking forward to this one very much. I hope he talks about classes leveling differently.
They certainly should. Rogues first!
Prof. DM mentions this more in his 6 suggestions for 6 E.
Makes a lot of sense, would like that to be introduced again.
@@equaltocody I know, I made a comment there asking for a vid with how he would do it. I was hoping for that here, but still a good vid.
@Aaron Davis ...then don't do it.
@Aaron Davis I like the idea, but I'm also okay with it not being the case.
Personally, I like details like how a elf lives hundreds years longer than a human. In a tolkienesque world that would mean a wizard (low hit points needs tons of exp) would go hand in hand with that. It's a small systematic change that ripples out into the world building. Maybe it is a bit of a needles complication, but art is a needless complication.
That said, I'm also playing quick and dirty 5e, and I don't use any house rules, so it's all theoretical preference.
I enjoy ProfessorDMs thoughts.
Very solid and relevant video. Thanks.
My most recent campaigns have been....vexsome. To use the terminology of your video, I've wanted to run a 'Star Wars' game and the players signed on for that, only to get side-tracked enough so it becomes villian-of-the-week Star Trek. My most recent game, I've just given up and sold it as a hex-crawl episodic, though there IS an over-arching plot they can engage if they so desire.
That's a GREAT topic for an episode! What happens when the DM has all these ambitions for an epic game and the players don't share them. I'm writing this down. The short answer is do what you did: just go with it.
Always love your points of view. So thought out and well informed.
Nice video, Professor. You got me remembering how players reacted the first time they played Classic Traveller.... "Whadya mean no xps?!"😂
@Professor Dungeon Craft -- yes all you say makes absolute sense. There needs to be a balance between Difficulty and Heroism ; characters that are too strong literally cakewalk everything and obliterate any obstacle or monster. I actually lost multiple players because of too much focus on combat and loot... But this aspect is appreciated by my other players who rejoice with combat and new powers.
I learnt the lesson a short while ago ; as a DM, it is best to make sure you address this topic with posting for a brand new campaign. When looking for new players, have some idea about how the campaign will go. Which percentage of exploration/combat/role play moments will there be ?
AzureTiger S Thanks for the thoughtful response!
Oh Professor - what a perfectly evil tease. Now I will be waiting to watch all day long tomorrw.
Thanks for commenting!
Thanks again for another great lesson professor 😊may all your rolls be 🎲20's
Thanks!
I often use the 1st edition rules and advice about that. Gold and magic items had experience value as well as killing enemies. I tended to design adventures such that I determined the rewards according to how high of a level I wanted the players to achieve. That meant that in some adventures the reward might be a magic item which increased their experience, but such rewards were rare. There was something about 1st edition that made things like getting a magic item or a bunch of gold satisfying to the players because of how rare such rewards became. I still design my adventures this way.
As an example: if I have a new game of four 1st level 5ed characters their total rewards between magic, gold and "kills" will not exceed 1200 xp. That means they might have 300xp from kills, 500 gp, and a minor magic item worth 400 gp or any combination thereof. The only magic item found, might be a +1 sword, but they get no money, etc. It makes any reward seem epic.
1st Edition is still great. Even back then, though, there were some groups who leveled too quickly. I remember selling +1 swords for 2,000gp because I'd rather have the xp!
Random Algorythm modeling comment. Love this series. Thx PDM
Great video! Always a good tip from Prof. DM!
Unhallowed Ground was a group favorite and one of the last adventures we played together in 1995. It came out a couple months before we went our separate ways.
Great video. i have changed over to Runequest from D&D BECMI for my campaign. To avoid the problem with levels. Its an Ancient Geece style background where the PCs can sacrifice magic items to the Gods in order to gain bonuses to attributes.
Your videos really help the worldbuilding process and you have great metaphors, thank you sir!
Great, well thought out reply! I was impressed that you had statistics on levels and all! You really do due diligence on this topic prof. : )
Agree with your comments here. The first 5-10 levels have always been the most interesting. However, that didn’t stop me from dreaming up an epic high level campaign to kill the 7 most iconic monsters of all time.
More great tips!! Thanks for the hard work in dealing out. Looking forward to the next one.
I love this topic. Thanks for the excellent guidance! I have been running into the problem of “challenging” my players bc I messed up and gave them way too many goodies early on. Definitely going to rewatch this when I start a new campaign. Thanks!
In my early run as a DM, I got to a point where some of my players were different levels. This got to be very difficult to manage as I would create NPCs and events to challenge my higher levels but would wind up wiping out the lower levels. Running now, I try and keep my players on the same level and I have had the conversation with them on what they are wanting out of the game (a very crucial step). This helps me run a level game and makes it fun for the players. I am only running games a few times a year, so I am a "Star Trek" DM but use to run "Star Wars" sagas.
I tend to agree with this, and I'd also add that as a player, the world design has a big impact on how fast I feel like I should be leveling up. Being a low to medium level character feels pretty satisfyingly in a mostly medium level world, but it also limits how often a DM can throw around power like a dragon or high level NPC spellcaster before it starts to chafe as a player that we haven't leveled up in a while.
Good video to get a feel for different levels of play. Recommend!
After 30 years of playing off and on, I've found the best days are the early ones before you have a lot of powers and hit points, because every move you make is clutch, and you don't get overwhelmed trying to remember abilities or items which are situational. There's definitely a tipping point during which the game transitions from creative problem solving (let's grease the bridge and taunt the fire giant into charging us) to resource management (thanks to our healer and regeneration potions, that ancient red dragon will never do enough damage to kill us; we'll drop it in no fewer than 12 rounds).
As for interesting characters, I'd say always give your character at least one living person less powerful than themselves that they care about. Also, if you can collaborate with another player to have your PC desperately want something (love, validation, respect, friendship) from their PC that their PC will never give your PC - you've got a great formula for inter-party conflict. You just have to be careful not to let it destroy the game.
Well said. If I could afford a staff writer, I'd hire you.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 That would finally make that MA in English worth it. I've a criminally low wisdom score though, so you could probably convince me to work for free.
always an interesting watch, Thanks PDM
Great points as usual. Enjoyed the longer video!
My preferred method of leveling is 1 session for the first level up, 2 sessions for the next two levels, 3 for the next three, etc. It's 6 sessions from 19 to 20, and 79 sessions from 1-20, or 3 years if playing roughly every other week.
I run a game that is a little Star Wars and a little Star Trek. I find giving them a mini epic from 1st to 5th level (like Phandelver) is a good way to introduce their characters, control a fast rate of advancing, give them things like a home base and introductory magic items, and expose them to the idea of the BBBG. Then I will set them up with several choices for story arc based on their background stories, have a few one-off adventures, and then meander into the most interesting story arc based on what they pursue, building a new mini epic that will introduce a moderate level bad guy that they piss off, who decides (unknown to them at the time) to be their nemesis. That will build to the epic campaign that will take up levels 12 - 20 where they have to discover what is going on and who is behind it (the last time I did it I used Glasstaff from Phandelver as the returning bad guy). Lots of time for mini-arcs and episodic play as well as long range goals.