I don't usually watch CNC videos, even yours. But I found this interesting perhaps because it isn't really about building a project with a CNC, but more about producing a product. Thank you.
You might be able to cut down on your bit swapping and a lot of time if you change HOW your CNC is cutting. A more efficient pattern might be to cut the overall blank into that octagon shape first (since that is the thickest part of the handle), then "turn" the rest in a more traditional lathe method instead of running up and down the length of the handle 1 cm turn at a time.
I recognize those screwdriver bits from 50 years of owning those same bits. They're Xcelite (now Weller Xcelite) 99 series blades that are designed to fit into any of several interchangeable handles (regular, stubby, ratcheting, T-handle). I've owned an assortment of those handles and screwdriver blades, nutdrivers, etc. since the early 1970s. Despite using them a lot, every one of them is in very good condition (well, except for the ratchet handle), so I would consider them premium bits. They are $7-$8 each in single quantities but most of the places I see selling them don't seem to have quantity discounts - basically retail, not wholesale. She probably can find a source of high-quality bits direct from a manufacturer that had splines rather than the wings on these bits to eliminate that step.
Really great information. My only point of comparison is the blacksmithing/bladesmithing world. Indeed the process of fitting the handles bears a strong resemblance to fitting the handle on a hidden tang knife. People are often shocked at the prices of things that are not mass manufactured.
Love the idea. Some optimization would improve your product and your margin. First, I would recommend you have your wood professionally stabilized (or do it yourself). This will allow you a broader range of wood choices and less failures. The program for Aspire produce an accurate result but not a fast result. If all of your screwdrivers are going to have the same profile, you can actually pay someone to program an optimized tool path for you that gives you better results in less time. Look for videos on conversational CAM for examples. In the time its taking you to turn that screwdriver you could have done two full sized table legs (even with tool changes). It looks to me like three tools would actually give you the fastest production time. First do a surfacing bit to turn it into an octagon. That is shockingly fast. Then a ball nose bit for all of the turning (rotate the wood lathe style not back and forth CNC style). Then a V Bit for the customization. You are using a 4 jaw chuck, if you turn using a faceplate, you can batch out by tool. Which isn't faster with the 4 jaw chuck but is more repeatable and faster with a faceplate. Leave it on that tool plate and move it over to a lathe and you can do the drilling and finishing on a lathe which will make everything faster.
it looks like a great new product Thank you for explaining the pricing . Most people do not understand that all of the parts cost money and your labor and time cost money.
Linn, I have been a subscriber for a LONG time I have seen your growth over the years and your shop and tools grow as well. Not to be a Debbie downer but I liked when you were much smaller and not tens of thousands dollars worth of tools. I like the woodworker making things with tools the normal person has. I know it is a dam if you do and dam if you don't kind of issue. Example I loved Jay Bates years ago but don't watch him at all now. I liked him working in an apartment as a side hustle and you working outside in a very small space. The goal was to grow your channel so I think you have succeed in that goal.
This is something I don't mind paying a fair price for. With ordinary screwdrivers, they are factory made thousands at a time, with hardly any human contact. These are made by hand, and you can see the craftsman/craftswoman's pride in the product. Not to mention, I'd be willing to bet, an experienced user will also be able to feel that pride, when held in the hand.
It is interesting watching your channel now, compared to a few years ago. You have evolved from a hammer and nails, to cnc machine work and making screw drivers. Plus selling your own line of wax. Impressive. Hello from Lynchburg Va
Would, be neat if for the set one handle said Darbin and the other Orvar. Would mean certain screwdrivers would have to be set aside for sets only, perhaps special or limited wood species.
I have made handles like that on a regular lathe. simply make the octagonal blank on the table saw and turn like usual. beautiful screwdrivers by the way!
Thought - while on the cnc, carve a groove around the stem where the ferrule sits. Only apply epoxy to the groove. Should save all that epoxy clean-up later. (Eugene, OR)
Great video. Appreciate you sharing this with us. :) One of my biggest questions and sources of anxiety when contemplating this sort of venture is what the guarantee / warranty/ return process looks like. The idea of no return / no refund / no support just never sits well with me. I think one should stand behind their work. But coming from a tech support background I can imagine how easy it would be to chew up relatively small margins on the support end due to frivolous claims or user errors. if someone spends $200 on one of these sets of screwdrivers, and it breaks, how much time and money are you willing to spend to determine whether the failure was in your product or due to improper handling on the client's end? What sort of guarantees can you afford to offer? Etc. If someone's had the product for months or years and it breaks, what's generally held as reasonable regarding the boundary between how long you "own" the condition of the product and when the client becomes responsible for the condition of the product? I'd want to have a solid sense of what's proper in this regard but have no idea where you'd even begin when determining these details of the business.
It depends a bit on the accurancy of the CNC - But one could cut the handles in 2 steps (upside, downside) on the X-Y table out of (multiple) slaps. Post-processing would be cutting loose by tablesaw. The advantage is: probably 100 handles fit on your CNC table. The challenge is - correct alignment for up and down side.
Why can't you simply turn it down to rough profile, then mill-turn it to detail finish? Honest question, because if its an issue of lateral force against the wood grain causing splitting or something then fair enough, I wouldn't know, I work with metal not wood, but it seems like a lot of wasted time longitudinally reciprocating with a little mill bit just to bring something into round.
Well, a very interesting and informative video. Your position is well explained and justified but there are small changes (see below) that could reduce your cost, time, and overhead. I comment only to advise that a market for $100 screwdrivers may somewhat diminish after the first run. I'm one to buy quality products but expect a payout in time savings or multiplicity of use which would be hard to realize from a screwdriver. I thoroughly enjoy your videos and workmanship and will refer you to workers ie. gunsmiths looking for exceptional tools. Truly I wish you nothing but success in your business venture and continued success in the areas you have conquered to date.
Two hours of hand finishing EACH? Even doing many at a time? That is way more than I ever would have expected! In my (small) experience making runs of 5 or 10 prototypes, steps like drill press drilling, sanding, etc. will only take perhaps 2x longer to make 5 or 10 than it takes to make one. Babysitting a CNC or 3d printer is definitely the most tedious part though and seems to just scale linearly, unlike other operations.
I'm only going by what I saw in the video, but I would think it would be quicker to do several at the same time from one longer blank. It appears you had the CNC do one handle on the longer blank, then reset the starting point and do the second handle further down on the same blank. If you made your CNC handle image longer, essentially stringing several handles in a line with a small sacrificial gap between, the CNC would traverse the full length of the blank, making several handles in one pass. You could use as long a blank as your machine can hold and cut down on waste.
Why didn't you spin the cnc lathe in one direction only? Does it not spin more than a certain amount? That constant stopping and starting is slowing you down. I see no benefit to spinning forward and backward unless you're doing the final sanding. Can you explain? Thank you.
Pretty interesting endeavor. The screwdrivers look really nice. I'm curious about your lumber costs. Are you buying individual blanks at $8 a piece? That seems like an outrageous price per board foot. You could trim that down substantially by milling them yourself with from a larger board. $8 for a 1.5" x 1.5" x 6" blank is $85/bdft. The screwdriver stems sound high too but I can't really speak to that side of things. Good luck!
I was actually thinking the driver stems sounded cheap. There really is a difference between low and high quality Phillips drivers. I imagined quality stems would be hard to find. I certainly am not seeing them in a quick search.
@@jessicav2031 Ya I don’t really have a frame of reference. Just trying to do some napkin math in my head and consider the reasonable retail cost of a quality screwdriver in a store these days. $8 seems like something you would pay when buying 1 for a little screwdriver kit. But when buying 100-200, just seems high. But I do not doubt that I’m wrong 🙂
@@parillaworks Good brands are much more than that for a single driver. A Wera Phillips #2, for example, starts at $15. Snap-on basic P2 driver is $28. Of course you could get a Chinese driver for pennies, but that's not really what we're talking about here :)
@@jessicav2031 I wasn’t saying a good screwdriver kit would cost $8 but that a single screwdriver blank at a place like Rockler might be in that range. Regardless, I do think there’s money to be saved on the lumber.
I agree, her pricing for the lumber is kind of insane. I think she actually did mill the lumber. Looks like she's milling at least some of it from a mesquite board at the beginning. So she's either way overpaying for lumber or exaggerating the cost drastically. I'm also very sure that's not $1 in epoxy for every driver. The driver blanks could vary pretty widely depending on what she's using.
The protrusions near to the base of the shank are there for a reason. they help deal with the torque generated when the screwdriver is in use. it is really not a good idea to remove them. you could try maling a square or elliptical hole and fixing the shank with resin.
I'm not really a CNC fan, there seems to be a lot of babysitting involved for an automated system. I always get this feeling that it could be done faster by hand.
It can be. I can turn these by hand on a lathe and have them sanded and finished in under 30 minutes. This might not be the best product for a CNC to shine in though. There are definitely things they excel at and things they don't.
@@majstor76 sure you can. Production hand turning has been a thing forever and with a bit of practice you can make them practically identical almost every time.
@@majstor76 that is true but i think the tradeoff is larger with a CNC. Time is money and i think the process could be streamlined a lot more, like making all the cylindrical forms first on the CNC, then shave off the hexagonal grip would go faster, rather than trying tu cut the entire shape in a zigzag orientation. Plus i don't get why the blank would need to turn while cutting the flat areas, wouldn't that require more sanding work after it's done? There are also templates for the lathes tool rest. I just feel that an experienced wood turner could make a lot of blanks in a day and then have a the CNC cut the facets for the grip, or a jig for cutting the facets with a handplane. I just don't believe a CNC is worth the money unless you are making a very complex geometry that would justify the use of an expensive robot. Plus I'm not hating on her for this but the appeal of wood is it's organic character. Making a repeatable machined objects take away from the appeal of an organic material. But hey, i could be wrong. But 200$ for 2 machine made screwdrivers just because it has a wooden handles and the "pain and suffering" upcharge is not an appealing price.
The Formula is usually [materials x (hours * rate) + tax] x Margin Margin is an arbitrary mark up. It is necessary for inflation and expansion. The bigger and more successful you are the better the service you can provide. 1. Your hourly rate is way too low. The average American Income in 2020 was $67,521 or 32.46 an hour. You have to mark up your hourly rate by 1/3 to cover employment & insurance taxes. A rough figure 10 years ago was $1,000,000.00 per every 5 engineers you employ. Which was roughly double what they were paid. Thus you should be factoring 64.92 an hour minimum. 2. Second I would address the actual material. You can't just use 440C for all your blades (wires). Think about your market. I recommend running production in batches. 2.1 Start with a batch of hardened steel tools. I think a RC of 58-60 would be great. but then switch it up. 2.2 Make a batch of bronze or softer steel tools with smaller heads for brass fittings. 2.3 Make a batch that includes a torque set. Say T4 to T10 or higher 2.4 Number your batches and runs. Make them all unique. 3. You picked the perfect handle. Test for the best wood. 3.1 Nobody will every agree on the best wood 3.2 Thus everyone will have a desire for a different wood. 4. The Goal would be to create collector's items, without saying collector's items. 5. the [M]argin is an arbitrary markup of 1.5 to 5 times the actual cost plus profit. Yes, your cost plus your desired profit. These are one of a kind items. 6. Keep the batch runs low. 6.1 that will be easy at first since you are just starting 6.2 Once you start seeing a profit, set limited runs in accordance with demand 7. when you start making more than 20% pure profit after taxes and food: Begin forging your own blades (wires). 7.1 this will allow you to control the quality and say that it is 100% made in house and in the US or Sweden, wherever. Just not China. Just a few Ideas. It is your business.
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I don't usually watch CNC videos, even yours. But I found this interesting perhaps because it isn't really about building a project with a CNC, but more about producing a product. Thank you.
Ferrule you can clean with wool scrubs and then put some lacquer. That way it wont go green
You might be able to cut down on your bit swapping and a lot of time if you change HOW your CNC is cutting. A more efficient pattern might be to cut the overall blank into that octagon shape first (since that is the thickest part of the handle), then "turn" the rest in a more traditional lathe method instead of running up and down the length of the handle 1 cm turn at a time.
I recognize those screwdriver bits from 50 years of owning those same bits. They're Xcelite (now Weller Xcelite) 99 series blades that are designed to fit into any of several interchangeable handles (regular, stubby, ratcheting, T-handle). I've owned an assortment of those handles and screwdriver blades, nutdrivers, etc. since the early 1970s. Despite using them a lot, every one of them is in very good condition (well, except for the ratchet handle), so I would consider them premium bits. They are $7-$8 each in single quantities but most of the places I see selling them don't seem to have quantity discounts - basically retail, not wholesale. She probably can find a source of high-quality bits direct from a manufacturer that had splines rather than the wings on these bits to eliminate that step.
very intelligent business analysis
Really great information. My only point of comparison is the blacksmithing/bladesmithing world. Indeed the process of fitting the handles bears a strong resemblance to fitting the handle on a hidden tang knife. People are often shocked at the prices of things that are not mass manufactured.
Love the idea. Some optimization would improve your product and your margin. First, I would recommend you have your wood professionally stabilized (or do it yourself). This will allow you a broader range of wood choices and less failures. The program for Aspire produce an accurate result but not a fast result. If all of your screwdrivers are going to have the same profile, you can actually pay someone to program an optimized tool path for you that gives you better results in less time. Look for videos on conversational CAM for examples. In the time its taking you to turn that screwdriver you could have done two full sized table legs (even with tool changes). It looks to me like three tools would actually give you the fastest production time. First do a surfacing bit to turn it into an octagon. That is shockingly fast. Then a ball nose bit for all of the turning (rotate the wood lathe style not back and forth CNC style). Then a V Bit for the customization. You are using a 4 jaw chuck, if you turn using a faceplate, you can batch out by tool. Which isn't faster with the 4 jaw chuck but is more repeatable and faster with a faceplate. Leave it on that tool plate and move it over to a lathe and you can do the drilling and finishing on a lathe which will make everything faster.
it looks like a great new product
Thank you for explaining the pricing .
Most people do not understand that all of the parts cost money and your labor and time cost money.
Very interesting to see what goes into making these beautiful screwdrivers and selling them. Congrats for the success, Linn!
wow those look fantastic! great work figuring that out.
Been a long time subscriber of this channel and this is the first video of yours I've seen in my feed in over a year!
This is cool. Very informative. Thank you. I've always wanted to know this information.
How's the camper trailer going??
Linn, I have been a subscriber for a LONG time I have seen your growth over the years and your shop and tools grow as well. Not to be a Debbie downer but I liked when you were much smaller and not tens of thousands dollars worth of tools. I like the woodworker making things with tools the normal person has. I know it is a dam if you do and dam if you don't kind of issue. Example I loved Jay Bates years ago but don't watch him at all now. I liked him working in an apartment as a side hustle and you working outside in a very small space. The goal was to grow your channel so I think you have succeed in that goal.
very good work
This is something I don't mind paying a fair price for. With ordinary screwdrivers, they are factory made thousands at a time, with hardly any human contact. These are made by hand, and you can see the craftsman/craftswoman's pride in the product. Not to mention, I'd be willing to bet, an experienced user will also be able to feel that pride, when held in the hand.
Ton of money, but a ton of work too!
That was a lot of fun to watch.
It is interesting watching your channel now, compared to a few years ago. You have evolved from a hammer and nails, to cnc machine work and making screw drivers. Plus selling your own line of wax. Impressive. Hello from Lynchburg Va
Very beatifoul ...
That little chuck and centre built into the end of the cnc router is a clever idea.
Would, be neat if for the set one handle said Darbin and the other Orvar. Would mean certain screwdrivers would have to be set aside for sets only, perhaps special or limited wood species.
If I see an order with your name I will design it that way for you. Let me know...
Thanks for this video.
Which CNC and Rotary attachment are these ?
I have made handles like that on a regular lathe. simply make the octagonal blank on the table saw and turn like usual. beautiful screwdrivers by the way!
Really cool. Reminds me of the old Craftsman handles which hold a lot of sentimental value for me.
Thats because the Craftsman screwdrivers used a version of the London pattern.
Thought - while on the cnc, carve a groove around the stem where the ferrule sits. Only apply epoxy to the groove. Should save all that epoxy clean-up later. (Eugene, OR)
Great video. Appreciate you sharing this with us. :) One of my biggest questions and sources of anxiety when contemplating this sort of venture is what the guarantee / warranty/ return process looks like. The idea of no return / no refund / no support just never sits well with me. I think one should stand behind their work. But coming from a tech support background I can imagine how easy it would be to chew up relatively small margins on the support end due to frivolous claims or user errors.
if someone spends $200 on one of these sets of screwdrivers, and it breaks, how much time and money are you willing to spend to determine whether the failure was in your product or due to improper handling on the client's end? What sort of guarantees can you afford to offer? Etc.
If someone's had the product for months or years and it breaks, what's generally held as reasonable regarding the boundary between how long you "own" the condition of the product and when the client becomes responsible for the condition of the product? I'd want to have a solid sense of what's proper in this regard but have no idea where you'd even begin when determining these details of the business.
It depends a bit on the accurancy of the CNC - But one could cut the handles in 2 steps (upside, downside) on the X-Y table out of (multiple) slaps. Post-processing would be cutting loose by tablesaw. The advantage is: probably 100 handles fit on your CNC table. The challenge is - correct alignment for up and down side.
Have you considered using an automatic tool changer with your CNC? Seems like it would help both in time savings and reproducibility of bit height.
i would love that!
Why can't you simply turn it down to rough profile, then mill-turn it to detail finish? Honest question, because if its an issue of lateral force against the wood grain causing splitting or something then fair enough, I wouldn't know, I work with metal not wood, but it seems like a lot of wasted time longitudinally reciprocating with a little mill bit just to bring something into round.
Well, a very interesting and informative video. Your position is well explained and justified but there are small changes (see below) that could reduce your cost, time, and overhead. I comment only to advise that a market for $100 screwdrivers may somewhat diminish after the first run. I'm one to buy quality products but expect a payout in time savings or multiplicity of use which would be hard to realize from a screwdriver. I thoroughly enjoy your videos and workmanship and will refer you to workers ie. gunsmiths looking for exceptional tools. Truly I wish you nothing but success in your business venture and continued success in the areas you have conquered to date.
Two hours of hand finishing EACH? Even doing many at a time? That is way more than I ever would have expected! In my (small) experience making runs of 5 or 10 prototypes, steps like drill press drilling, sanding, etc. will only take perhaps 2x longer to make 5 or 10 than it takes to make one. Babysitting a CNC or 3d printer is definitely the most tedious part though and seems to just scale linearly, unlike other operations.
It would be good if you talk about the quality of the steel used in your screwdrivers. Keep up the good work!
Where do you get the shafts for the screw drivers
I'm only going by what I saw in the video, but I would think it would be quicker to do several at the same time from one longer blank. It appears you had the CNC do one handle on the longer blank, then reset the starting point and do the second handle further down on the same blank. If you made your CNC handle image longer, essentially stringing several handles in a line with a small sacrificial gap between, the CNC would traverse the full length of the blank, making several handles in one pass. You could use as long a blank as your machine can hold and cut down on waste.
Pretty interesting, Linn! Great analysis! 😃
The screwdrivers look sweet!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Why didn't you spin the cnc lathe in one direction only? Does it not spin more than a certain amount?
That constant stopping and starting is slowing you down.
I see no benefit to spinning forward and backward unless you're doing the final sanding.
Can you explain?
Thank you.
If you mean when the machine is cutting, that tool path is being determined by the vectric software.
How many screwdrivers did you have to sell to pay for the CNC machine?
you forgot to add the cost of the copper piece. or is that included in the 8 dollars for the insert?
Pretty interesting endeavor. The screwdrivers look really nice. I'm curious about your lumber costs. Are you buying individual blanks at $8 a piece? That seems like an outrageous price per board foot. You could trim that down substantially by milling them yourself with from a larger board. $8 for a 1.5" x 1.5" x 6" blank is $85/bdft. The screwdriver stems sound high too but I can't really speak to that side of things. Good luck!
I was actually thinking the driver stems sounded cheap. There really is a difference between low and high quality Phillips drivers. I imagined quality stems would be hard to find. I certainly am not seeing them in a quick search.
@@jessicav2031 Ya I don’t really have a frame of reference. Just trying to do some napkin math in my head and consider the reasonable retail cost of a quality screwdriver in a store these days. $8 seems like something you would pay when buying 1 for a little screwdriver kit. But when buying 100-200, just seems high. But I do not doubt that I’m wrong 🙂
@@parillaworks Good brands are much more than that for a single driver. A Wera Phillips #2, for example, starts at $15. Snap-on basic P2 driver is $28. Of course you could get a Chinese driver for pennies, but that's not really what we're talking about here :)
@@jessicav2031 I wasn’t saying a good screwdriver kit would cost $8 but that a single screwdriver blank at a place like Rockler might be in that range. Regardless, I do think there’s money to be saved on the lumber.
I agree, her pricing for the lumber is kind of insane. I think she actually did mill the lumber. Looks like she's milling at least some of it from a mesquite board at the beginning. So she's either way overpaying for lumber or exaggerating the cost drastically. I'm also very sure that's not $1 in epoxy for every driver. The driver blanks could vary pretty widely depending on what she's using.
They look great but if your not careful you could get screwed
What a thorough overview of the process, thank you for sharing!
May one day be a cult classic
Lol. Good luck with that.
There’s something about using cnc machines to make screwdrivers.😆
With a ton of work
The protrusions near to the base of the shank are there for a reason. they help deal with the torque generated when the screwdriver is in use. it is really not a good idea to remove them. you could try maling a square or elliptical hole and fixing the shank with resin.
they are not being removed.
I'm not really a CNC fan, there seems to be a lot of babysitting involved for an automated system. I always get this feeling that it could be done faster by hand.
It can be. I can turn these by hand on a lathe and have them sanded and finished in under 30 minutes. This might not be the best product for a CNC to shine in though. There are definitely things they excel at and things they don't.
You can make them faster but not the same
@@majstor76 sure you can. Production hand turning has been a thing forever and with a bit of practice you can make them practically identical almost every time.
@@majstor76 that is true but i think the tradeoff is larger with a CNC. Time is money and i think the process could be streamlined a lot more, like making all the cylindrical forms first on the CNC, then shave off the hexagonal grip would go faster, rather than trying tu cut the entire shape in a zigzag orientation. Plus i don't get why the blank would need to turn while cutting the flat areas, wouldn't that require more sanding work after it's done?
There are also templates for the lathes tool rest. I just feel that an experienced wood turner could make a lot of blanks in a day and then have a the CNC cut the facets for the grip, or a jig for cutting the facets with a handplane. I just don't believe a CNC is worth the money unless you are making a very complex geometry that would justify the use of an expensive robot.
Plus I'm not hating on her for this but the appeal of wood is it's organic character. Making a repeatable machined objects take away from the appeal of an organic material.
But hey, i could be wrong. But 200$ for 2 machine made screwdrivers just because it has a wooden handles and the "pain and suffering" upcharge is not an appealing price.
Why does she speak English better than most Americans
The Formula is usually [materials x (hours * rate) + tax] x Margin
Margin is an arbitrary mark up. It is necessary for inflation and expansion. The bigger and more successful you are the better the service you can provide.
1. Your hourly rate is way too low. The average American Income in 2020 was $67,521 or 32.46 an hour. You have to mark up your hourly rate by 1/3 to cover employment & insurance taxes. A rough figure 10 years ago was $1,000,000.00 per every 5 engineers you employ. Which was roughly double what they were paid. Thus you should be factoring 64.92 an hour minimum.
2. Second I would address the actual material. You can't just use 440C for all your blades (wires). Think about your market. I recommend running production in batches.
2.1 Start with a batch of hardened steel tools. I think a RC of 58-60 would be great. but then switch it up.
2.2 Make a batch of bronze or softer steel tools with smaller heads for brass fittings.
2.3 Make a batch that includes a torque set. Say T4 to T10 or higher
2.4 Number your batches and runs. Make them all unique.
3. You picked the perfect handle. Test for the best wood.
3.1 Nobody will every agree on the best wood
3.2 Thus everyone will have a desire for a different wood.
4. The Goal would be to create collector's items, without saying collector's items.
5. the [M]argin is an arbitrary markup of 1.5 to 5 times the actual cost plus profit. Yes, your cost plus your desired profit. These are one of a kind items.
6. Keep the batch runs low.
6.1 that will be easy at first since you are just starting
6.2 Once you start seeing a profit, set limited runs in accordance with demand
7. when you start making more than 20% pure profit after taxes and food: Begin forging your own blades (wires).
7.1 this will allow you to control the quality and say that it is 100% made in house and in the US or Sweden, wherever. Just not China.
Just a few Ideas. It is your business.