Great points Jesco! Something to also point out is that two subs can be especially helpful if one sub doesn't give you a flat enough response. Two subs allows you to independently correct for standing wave problems, which got my low end to +/- 2 db from 20 to 200hz. Couldn't have gotten my room sound this good without your "bass hunter" technique. Thanks for all you do!
I've had my 6.2 for about 2 months and I'm really pleased with, I'm getting really tight bottom end in my newly treated garden studio and the stereo image is more 3D with the sub switched in. 😎
Subs are even without room treatment a massive problem solver on the listening position for low frequencies in the room. But you need to invest time in the software / DSP and the placement to find the correct setup. Thats why people dont like subs because they place them, use some switches maybe on the back and think thats enough. Single or Double Bass Arrays are the Champion Setups but there you need a lot of knowledge and time to set this up.
Hey Jesco! Have you ever recommended a smoothing setting for REW sweeps? Also, is there any merit to the idea of using a second subwoofer with phase rotated to reduce standing waves? I can't help thinking that Kii speakers are using this technique.
In my room Sub did solve the issues: I had two choises 1. Speakers at the front wall and go down to 45hz but with massive dip around 60-100hz (=the best place after many days of setting up) 2. Speakers 125cm out of the wall, but with low cut from 90hz (=room cuts everything under 90hz not the speakers). Solution: Use placement 2 and add subwoofer to fill the 30-90hz region. Every room is different and it's all about finding the least bad solution.
Just in time. We just added a 21cm base trap behind the cabasse speakers and 30 cm behind the listening position. The cloud is in production. My son is strongly advocating for a sub. I think once the cloud is up, we will go for a bass hunt. 🤠
Floyd Toole is a proponent of multiple subs to even the response below say 80hz…basically it’s the only practical way to bring up nulls since EQ is pretty worthless with nulls and treatments would be so thick that they might take up the entire room if asked to treat 40-50hz
What about setting up multiple subs in different places in the room with tweaked crossover frequency, phase, and amplitude? Adjustable phase will be a key here as you can potentially cancel out peaks in the bass response in your listening spot or perhaps fill in some of the dips as well.
setting the distance fo each sub is a lot finer, but u need a dsp to that.. the combined distance of each sub, will fix your crossovers, u can use just your avr.
Hi jesco! Keep doin the great job!!! I was wondering, Would It be as effettive as usual to leave the Rolls of isover(absorbing material) at the corners,without opening them,but Just replacing the plastic wrap with porous fabric? Would It be effective (relatevely) As cilindric bass-traps?
If they're compressed in the packsging it's better to get it out and rewrap it in plastic wrap. Else the fibres can'f move freely and do their job (absorbing).
Question about subwoofer settings: I am connecting the output of my system to the input of the sub and from the sub to my main monitors. The sub has an internal crossover so my mains don't get low frequency below this crossover point. But I've seen that many use the main monitors in full-range and just adding the sub without using any eq crossover. What's the correct way to conect the sub?
You need to do a crossover frequency and setting everything up via a DSP. Otherwise you get a mess with cancellations or massive room modes because youve too much driver who put out low frequency into the room. Without a DSP where you can measure with a Mic and set everything up, a subwoofer is more a problem than a solution.
-----You paid for a subwoofer with your hard earned money without first understanding why one would choose one model from another? Do you think next time you'll do a little research beforehand? The answer to your question, as in all things audio, is it depends. The biggest difference will be whether you are playing back movies or music? Low frequency reproduction is very different between the two genres. Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpHiFi nop, did no research at all. Since I didn't bought the speakers. These are the speakers in the studio where I work from. I am now fixing a few things and acoustics and speakers will be among those things. Hence my question
Great content as always! But here's an off topic question: I'm about to build a control room to do Dolby Atmos mixing, so I need to mount speakers to the ceiling. My ceiling is made of OSB, and I'm having trouble finding a way to mount the speakers while making sure the vibrations won't travel into the ceiling, and convert my room into a giant cello. Do you have any idea how to do this? Thanks!
Attention newbies........................... Let's clear up a couple things about "Sub"sonic-Woofers. As the name suggests, a sub plays frequencies at 20Hz & below our ability to hear. They are air movers invented as a cinema effect, created by synthetic tones, for such things as earthquakes & explosions. Understand that when a sub plays above 20Hz it's entering the audible range. A range that any full-range loudspeaker worth praise ought to cover on it's own with its own on-board woofer. Any audio enthusiast that has a sub playing above 20Hz is arguably doing so because the mains are deficient somehow down low. If this is the case, one can't just add. A high pass crossover must be used on the mains to subtract lows because the noise & distortion of the mains trying to reach down is still there. Moving on to placement, experts have all kinds of theories about where to put them. From time dilation measuring, the DIRAC system & adding a second sub to correct for the first one. There's even a method called the "sub crawl" where you put the sub on the couch then crawl around the room until it sounds right. Simply laughable. Sound is waves and the best sound are waves that are unmolested to our ears. Literally objects between us & the loudspeakers, wall reflections or other wave cancellations etc. Put the Sub centered between the mains & equidistant as the mains from the front wall. That's where it goes. Always. You want the time arrival to be the same as the mains with nothing to interfere between you & it upon the first wave arrivals with only the first reflection point, which will land behind you, left as a concern. If there are 2 subs, either stack them or put one directly behind the other firing backward. On a side note, Memory foam chunks now fill the beanbags available at Amazon for $85. They are colorful, 3 foot diameter microfiber bags and make for outstanding bass traps. Stack them in the rear corners and they'll be great. Plus their easy to move around and have dual usage. So why don't all the experts put the sub on-center with the mains? Well back in the day we didn't hang TVs off the wall so there was a big stand filled with cable and VCR boxes. There was no room for the sub in the middle. It's the same trouble home theaters still have today with center channels. Now I don't know who started it but whomever decided the best place for all their HiFi gear is on the ground between their mains is either a back pain masochist or a complete & utter Moron. Get your gear off the ground and onto shelves somewhere within the same zip code as your couch. Then put the sub where it belongs unimpeded. And lastly, all of this is for not if one is trying to improve a musical reproduction. You'll have no luck finding recordings that go below 40Hz. There just aren't any instruments that play that low. For you wiseguys, the 2 exceptions are recorded compressed up to 40. Good luck Noobs & as always, Know the Signal Chain. Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
1) Do you want PHAT BASS? 2) Do you want to PARTY HARD? 3) Do you like to GET DOWN? 4) Are you COOL ENOUGH? If you answered yes to any one of these, 10:48 is for you
Great points Jesco! Something to also point out is that two subs can be especially helpful if one sub doesn't give you a flat enough response. Two subs allows you to independently correct for standing wave problems, which got my low end to +/- 2 db from 20 to 200hz. Couldn't have gotten my room sound this good without your "bass hunter" technique. Thanks for all you do!
My Kali Audio WS6.2 arrives this Friday, and I’m very excited.
I've had my 6.2 for about 2 months and I'm really pleased with, I'm getting really tight bottom end in my newly treated garden studio and the stereo image is more 3D with the sub switched in. 😎
I have the IN8's. Port on the front is the only way..
@@arielleandristI'm running the Kali 6.2 sub with a pair of IN-5's. I agree about the ports.
@@kadiummusicHappy to hear that! 👍
Subs are even without room treatment a massive problem solver on the listening position for low frequencies in the room. But you need to invest time in the software / DSP and the placement to find the correct setup. Thats why people dont like subs because they place them, use some switches maybe on the back and think thats enough. Single or Double Bass Arrays are the Champion Setups but there you need a lot of knowledge and time to set this up.
Hey Jesco! Have you ever recommended a smoothing setting for REW sweeps? Also, is there any merit to the idea of using a second subwoofer with phase rotated to reduce standing waves? I can't help thinking that Kii speakers are using this technique.
In my room Sub did solve the issues: I had two choises 1. Speakers at the front wall and go down to 45hz but with massive dip around 60-100hz (=the best place after many days of setting up) 2. Speakers 125cm out of the wall, but with low cut from 90hz (=room cuts everything under 90hz not the speakers). Solution: Use placement 2 and add subwoofer to fill the 30-90hz region. Every room is different and it's all about finding the least bad solution.
Just in time. We just added a 21cm base trap behind the cabasse speakers and 30 cm behind the listening position. The cloud is in production. My son is strongly advocating for a sub. I think once the cloud is up, we will go for a bass hunt. 🤠
Floyd Toole is a proponent of multiple subs to even the response below say 80hz…basically it’s the only practical way to bring up nulls since EQ is pretty worthless with nulls and treatments would be so thick that they might take up the entire room if asked to treat 40-50hz
What about setting up multiple subs in different places in the room with tweaked crossover frequency, phase, and amplitude? Adjustable phase will be a key here as you can potentially cancel out peaks in the bass response in your listening spot or perhaps fill in some of the dips as well.
setting the distance fo each sub is a lot finer, but u need a dsp to that.. the combined distance of each sub, will fix your crossovers, u can use just your avr.
Hi jesco! Keep doin the great job!!!
I was wondering,
Would It be as effettive as usual to leave the Rolls of isover(absorbing material) at the corners,without opening them,but Just replacing the plastic wrap with porous fabric?
Would It be effective (relatevely)
As cilindric bass-traps?
If they're compressed in the packsging it's better to get it out and rewrap it in plastic wrap.
Else the fibres can'f move freely and do their job (absorbing).
@@Tazmanian_Ninja thank u very much!!!! It Is not Better to put fabric instead of plastic wrap?
Question about subwoofer settings:
I am connecting the output of my system to the input of the sub and from the sub to my main monitors. The sub has an internal crossover so my mains don't get low frequency below this crossover point. But I've seen that many use the main monitors in full-range and just adding the sub without using any eq crossover. What's the correct way to conect the sub?
You need to do a crossover frequency and setting everything up via a DSP. Otherwise you get a mess with cancellations or massive room modes because youve too much driver who put out low frequency into the room. Without a DSP where you can measure with a Mic and set everything up, a subwoofer is more a problem than a solution.
With Kali subwoofers you can switch between top and sub bass or full range tops by themselves with a foot switch so you get the best of both worlds.
-----You paid for a subwoofer with your hard earned money without first understanding why one would choose one model from another? Do you think next time you'll do a little research beforehand?
The answer to your question, as in all things audio, is it depends. The biggest difference will be whether you are playing back movies or music? Low frequency reproduction is very different between the two genres.
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
@@TriAmpHiFi nop, did no research at all. Since I didn't bought the speakers. These are the speakers in the studio where I work from.
I am now fixing a few things and acoustics and speakers will be among those things. Hence my question
Subwoofers are ace!
…..it’s gotta be big!
of Bass!
Great content as always! But here's an off topic question:
I'm about to build a control room to do Dolby Atmos mixing, so I need to mount speakers to the ceiling. My ceiling is made of OSB, and I'm having trouble finding a way to mount the speakers while making sure the vibrations won't travel into the ceiling, and convert my room into a giant cello. Do you have any idea how to do this? Thanks!
Okay, I followed the link then it says page no longer exists.
Attention newbies...........................
Let's clear up a couple things about "Sub"sonic-Woofers. As the name suggests, a sub plays frequencies at 20Hz & below our ability to hear. They are air movers invented as a cinema effect, created by synthetic tones, for such things as earthquakes & explosions. Understand that when a sub plays above 20Hz it's entering the audible range. A range that any full-range loudspeaker worth praise ought to cover on it's own with its own on-board woofer.
Any audio enthusiast that has a sub playing above 20Hz is arguably doing so because the mains are deficient somehow down low. If this is the case, one can't just add. A high pass crossover must be used on the mains to subtract lows because the noise & distortion of the mains trying to reach down is still there.
Moving on to placement, experts have all kinds of theories about where to put them. From time dilation measuring, the DIRAC system & adding a second sub to correct for the first one. There's even a method called the "sub crawl" where you put the sub on the couch then crawl around the room until it sounds right. Simply laughable. Sound is waves and the best sound are waves that are unmolested to our ears. Literally objects between us & the loudspeakers, wall reflections or other wave cancellations etc.
Put the Sub centered between the mains & equidistant as the mains from the front wall. That's where it goes. Always. You want the time arrival to be the same as the mains with nothing to interfere between you & it upon the first wave arrivals with only the first reflection point, which will land behind you, left as a concern. If there are 2 subs, either stack them or put one directly behind the other firing backward.
On a side note, Memory foam chunks now fill the beanbags available at Amazon for $85. They are colorful, 3 foot diameter microfiber bags and make for outstanding bass traps. Stack them in the rear corners and they'll be great. Plus their easy to move around and have dual usage.
So why don't all the experts put the sub on-center with the mains? Well back in the day we didn't hang TVs off the wall so there was a big stand filled with cable and VCR boxes. There was no room for the sub in the middle. It's the same trouble home theaters still have today with center channels. Now I don't know who started it but whomever decided the best place for all their HiFi gear is on the ground between their mains is either a back pain masochist or a complete & utter Moron. Get your gear off the ground and onto shelves somewhere within the same zip code as your couch. Then put the sub where it belongs unimpeded.
And lastly, all of this is for not if one is trying to improve a musical reproduction. You'll have no luck finding recordings that go below 40Hz. There just aren't any instruments that play that low. For you wiseguys, the 2 exceptions are recorded compressed up to 40.
Good luck Noobs & as always, Know the Signal Chain.
Reggae, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
1) Do you want PHAT BASS?
2) Do you want to PARTY HARD?
3) Do you like to GET DOWN?
4) Are you COOL ENOUGH?
If you answered yes to any one of these, 10:48 is for you