Next time, drive the tractor in backwards. When you get to a sketchy place, extend your backhoe all the way out and jam it in the dirt good, then pull yourself towards the bucket, you can continue to do this until you get to level ground. You can also sit your front-end loader down flat, and then raise your front wheels off the ground some, when you pull yourself with the backhoe, the tractor will slide on the bottom of the front-end loader, and your tires will not tear up the ground. Good luck with the Springs! Nice work on them.
As long as the water is tested. Spring water comes from surface water that filters through layers of soil and rock but doesn’t make it to the sub surface aquifer. It can easily be contaminated from land use up the water shed. The taste doesn’t mean a thing except that it’s favorable to you. Nice work very good use of the land.
In '89 I had 42+ acres and had the pleasure of teaching my little girl the same lessons your little guy is learning from HIS parents. Way to go guys! Can you find a spot downhill from there to collect and HOLD the EXCESS water that isn't being shot up ABOVE you home site? ( Building a POND is about as much fun as having TWINS !!!) God bless this young family and please watch over them. Your friend Ronald M.
I live in Australia which has been in varying degrees of drought for over 15 years. Watching the water just run had my brain screaming ‘turn the bloody tap off’.
Well, *badumtss* as a spring the water will run no matter what haha. I understand you just get the feeling it needs to be turned of. not that it can be.
Quick tip from a guy who does irrigation, make sure to use clamps on your Poly (black flaccid ish pipe) fittings! Will save you a lot of trouble. Especially in the situation of a RAM pump
Lou's knowledge, understanding, engineering, brute strength and dedication is mind boggling. He finds solutions to all problems. The drive to make his beautiful family an amazing home is so heartwarming. @dana I can't wait for the clay mugs n plates ❤
Ive developed springs on my property too. What i was told by the old timers was to wrap the submerged pipe with a layer of weed cloth. It works as an awesome filtering process beyond the rocks. And when you uncoil the hosing, you want to unroll like a spool would, the way you and wifey did it will increase likelihood of unwanted kinks in line. And ya. Got to have an air bleeder at top of line, which i thought you had with those red capped ys on PVC
Damnnn, that looks like so much fun getting to be out there in the mud building! It's super fascinating to learn how springs work and how to develop them. Thanks so much for sharing these snippets of your life with us!! :)
You guys are SO impressive!!!!!! I can't even begin to tell you how much joy and comfort I get from watching your videos. Seeing Lou develop those springs, just WOW! You are so lucky to have such a huge part of the woods just for you :)
this was such an interesting watch. I love seeing the water flow come through. Go Lou!! btw the shot of Max digging with his daddy made me burst into tears. Usually I'm able to get further into the video before I start crying, lol. What a beautiful family 💛
This was a pretty good spring build. Being able to catch such a broad spring with multiple eyes is not as ideal as finding a single eye but it's a lot better than having to build a 25 foot dam like you'd have to do for a soft soil seep without an eye. Hopefully you don't ever lose them to new eyes breaking away and broadening the seep or anything. It was a real blessing to be able to find the rocks that it flows out of. If I were you I'd build or buy a pump even if it's just a spare that will run down to like 3 gallons per minute or even less if possible that way it'll keep running even in a drought, just in case that GPM drops a lot during a dry august. We had a d4 drought here this year and got down to 220 gallons per day between 2 springs at one point. I put in a third and got us up to about 350. Luckily ours is all gravity because we could have never run a ramp pump on them. But if your pump can't go down somewhere in the range of 1-3gpm if there's a drought bad enough to stop your pump running you'll need a bunch of electric cable and a submersible pump to stick in your spring box or a small cistern tank to get water back up the mountain. Which isn't a bad backup idea anyways. Or a primary idea if you can't run a ram pump you can always just set a cistern and bury in a bajillion feet of pressure line and an electric cable to use a submersible well pump to feed the house. I also saw your other video with the 2 new springs and squirrel chews. Little boogers love ruining good water line. Basically the only fix is to walk the line once a year with a roll of 3m black electrical tape and tape any holes up that you find or you can bury the line by just dragging soil and leaf litter over it from above with your mattock. You can do something similar for burying pressure lines on a hillside, dig only partway as deep as you need it and then bury it with more dirt from all around it, letting gravity do some of the work for you. You can sometimes add as much as 6 to 18 inches of depth depending on how determined you are. Maybe in a couple years when little feller is bigger you and him can hit the hillside with a couple mattocks and bury stuff with a little dirt if those squirrels become too much of a nuisance. I have been lucky in that the falling leaves and erosion cover our lines over pretty good given some time.
Have you thought about increasing the flow of the springs by building ponds or other water collection structures above the springs in elevation? That way you will charge the groundwater more increasing the flow of the springs. It can also create new springs in the area as well. =)
While building those dams, you can divert water away from your working area - around the dam, and then reroute the flow of water back to the dam when the work is done on that location
not sure if you have a lake to swim in or not but if it was me i would dig a big ish hole and put a tarp into it and have the springs flow into there as a little pool. slope the pool a little so when it overflows it goes into a filter and into the pump to supply your house.
@jameslafontaine5557 No mention of "modern" was made. Though I would not consider a 95 year old anything to be considered modern. Items of that age are described as antiques. Would you refer to a 1930s automobile as modern? If you did, I think you would be alone in that opinion.
it feels like you are in that house on the mountain where you built out the van! almost like a full circle seeing you walking up hill with buckets and the dog running after you. well done guys its amazing ❤
You can use the branches, cut them into pieces and lay them in the mud. It works like the way you put rebar into concrete to reenforce the ground to distribute the weight of your tractor out better. I live on a side of a mnt to where water will loosen the soil. And found this to be a great way to make drit roads
Looks amazing, Lou!! You should try to get a moss patch to grow over top of the plastic covering the new springs! Looks like there’s a perfect lil sun patch there for it !
Appears you could lay the rock down along the road after grading in the dry season to build a better base closer to the springs as you’ll most likely be there for maintenance of the springs.
At 22:26 did I hear him correctly. Sounded a lot like a word kids love to say after they hear it. It took me back to my nephews and nieces being that age. Y'all have an amazing piece of land and a great family keep up the good work.
This is really amazing! I'm sure there are ways the waste water from the ram pump can still be useful and even benefit local wildlife. Maybe it could be used as the source for an artificial lake where you can introduce some native fish species! :D
You can create some mud mats out of 2x4 or old trimmed down logs. Screw or nail the pieces together to make a rail road or ladder looking piece of wood, that would sit in the mud and provide traction. The bigger the foot print the more the forces will be dispersed in the mud, and the long it will last before sinking into the mud
If your spring water flows decrease due to sedimentation you can always wrap you coarse aggregate in some geotextile fabric that will keep fines out of your aggregate. nice going!
You have a backhoe, on those spots where you're sliding use it to dig from the high side of that area and put your diggings just passed the low side for a shoulder.
Hi, have you looked into adding Xtra wheel on the back ? The main advantages of dual assembly are better distribution of soil pressure, improved tractor stability, and higher tractive force. This means loads are spread over more tyres, which means tyres are less likely to slip and thus be subject to less wear and tear.
Install a bleeder valve at the top of every hill. Then you can simply walk down your line opening bleeder valves until water runs out of the bleeder valve(exactly like brake lines on an automobile). Air is compressible if it is sealed in. The water will force the air out if you give that air a path out.
Not a mud expert here, but look up if letting a little air out of the tires and getting a heavy duty wench would help you. You can wench to a tree and pull up to more solid ground.
can you fill the rear tires with water and get some tire chains to get more traction. ? also put down gravel on your road . that will do wonders. lastly buy a winch for the tractor so you can pull it out of stuck situations. you may need larger plastic pipe as well.
As a planner, my reaction is that I would do almost everything different. I'm way more lazy than you are, so I think I would plan harder and make more use of power tools. That being said, I'm still jealous of your life style and say more power to you and God Bless!
Generally I've found if the spring flows pretty good like yours the worst that will happen in summer is half flow. Usual it's the tiny springs that are seasonal. Again though this is generally. Your best bet is to find it during peak flow and monitor it for a year if you have the time. We only developed ours halfway at our hunting land for the first couple years before we committed to burying a full length of pipe.
This is likely a stupid question and I know I might come across ignorant by asking it: does developing these springs not take water qwqy from the forest environment around it and therefor disturb its ecosystem?
It absolutely does. Those aquifers are supplying water to the root systems to that entire area as well as the regions watershed. The amount of water that will be wasted for their use is selfish and truly maddening. Homesteading is a self indulgence by people whom have deluded themselves into thinking they are living a more pure life than the rest of us all while using diesel/gas powered machines to rip up nature for youtube views.
Sure, a bit, but as you saw it wasn’t a river ecosystem, just wetter spots in a wet forest, that mostly was soaked in again into the ground. Most of the water will still spill in place and soak I think, if they only take for 3 human’s daily use. Having a well also has an impact, or using city water. Or bottled water. Lowering one’s water use is crucial off grid anyway
my uncle developed a spring by driving a sand point into the hill where the flow was coming from I am sure it went quite a few yards back into the hill but when finished the flow was about the same as you have there
Have you thought of developing the springs into a combined stream, flowing into a couple consecutive ponds down the slope? This would provide water for your family and local wildlife and could produce hydroelectric power.
Im just guessing, but your first q&a about lookink for spring in summer is because there is a tendency for springs to dry up when the ground water tends to dry up or greatly reduce in flow because the ground water/aquifer is not being replenished by rain as it would be during the other 3 seasons. Just a guess.
Never thought I will be jelaus of a man digging springs in the forest but here I am
Jealous
Jealous 🤓
Aint no lie !😅
Being from a reservation in AZ, I would kill for a basically endless supply of water. So much greenery there
Next time, drive the tractor in backwards. When you get to a sketchy place, extend your backhoe all the way out and jam it in the dirt good, then pull yourself towards the bucket, you can continue to do this until you get to level ground. You can also sit your front-end loader down flat, and then raise your front wheels off the ground some, when you pull yourself with the backhoe, the tractor will slide on the bottom of the front-end loader, and your tires will not tear up the ground. Good luck with the Springs! Nice work on them.
I always read a few comments to discover little gems of wisdom like this.
I just jumped those steps when I bought mine and got ag tires.
Excavator operators who have decades of experience are knowledge troves. Just like machinists
As long as the water is tested. Spring water comes from surface water that filters through layers of soil and rock but doesn’t make it to the sub surface aquifer. It can easily be contaminated from land use up the water shed. The taste doesn’t mean a thing except that it’s favorable to you. Nice work very good use of the land.
You guys are a beautiful family- it does my heart good to see young people building their lives and their dreams.
Very proud of you.
In '89 I had 42+ acres and had the pleasure of teaching my little girl the same lessons your little guy is learning from HIS parents. Way to go guys! Can you find a spot downhill from there to collect and HOLD the EXCESS water that isn't being shot up ABOVE you home site? ( Building a POND is about as much fun as having TWINS !!!) God bless this young family and please watch over them. Your friend Ronald M.
I live in Australia which has been in varying degrees of drought for over 15 years. Watching the water just run had my brain screaming ‘turn the bloody tap off’.
Well, *badumtss* as a spring the water will run no matter what haha. I understand you just get the feeling it needs to be turned of. not that it can be.
Dog immediately takes a drink. We good👍🏾
I've seen my dog drink from a dam with a rotting kangaroo floating nearby. 😬 Dogs are hardly to be considered H2O connoisseurs...😅
Quick tip from a guy who does irrigation, make sure to use clamps on your Poly (black flaccid ish pipe) fittings! Will save you a lot of trouble. Especially in the situation of a RAM pump
Lou's knowledge, understanding, engineering, brute strength and dedication is mind boggling. He finds solutions to all problems. The drive to make his beautiful family an amazing home is so heartwarming. @dana I can't wait for the clay mugs n plates ❤
Thank you so much, as always ❤ for always warming our hearts and putting a smile on my face with your kind comments xx
You have a backhoe, you can build a road for access and dig those springs in 5 minutes when it's done. You're definitely doing things the hard way.
And he will need to access them regularly. The road is all around a good idea.
I may be wrong but I think you have one spring that is surfacing in 3 places. I would dig them all until you find the source.
Eh he's young.
are you farmiliar with the concept of perch?
He may not want a road there and likely doesn’t want to over develop the land.
Fascinating process. I’ve never seen that done before. Thanks for sharing.
so glad you liked watching it :) thank you!
Ive developed springs on my property too. What i was told by the old timers was to wrap the submerged pipe with a layer of weed cloth. It works as an awesome filtering process beyond the rocks.
And when you uncoil the hosing, you want to unroll like a spool would, the way you and wifey did it will increase likelihood of unwanted kinks in line.
And ya. Got to have an air bleeder at top of line, which i thought you had with those red capped ys on PVC
Damnnn, that looks like so much fun getting to be out there in the mud building! It's super fascinating to learn how springs work and how to develop them. Thanks so much for sharing these snippets of your life with us!! :)
yay, so glad you like to learn about them as much as we do :) it really is so much fun, Max loves it!! hope you are doing really well :)
As an Australian watching people lift up rocks and logs with no fear just freaks me out
everything in aussi nature is trying to kill you.
What’s to fear
@@lesleygorski5447 everything in Australia is tryin to kill you, lol
We gotta be careful. I've been badly bitten by a black widow, and had to have surgery, and have to deal with rattlesnakes on a regular basis.
@@lesleygorski5447 Lots of poisonous stuff in Australia, dangerous snakes, spiders (i.e. black widow and rattle snake)
You guys are SO impressive!!!!!! I can't even begin to tell you how much joy and comfort I get from watching your videos. Seeing Lou develop those springs, just WOW! You are so lucky to have such a huge part of the woods just for you :)
Having your own water source makes you 100 percent off grid sustainable. Nice job.
Thanks for adding yet another thing I need to learn about in an obsessive way
Just hanging out in nature all day and night, that's a life to live.
That child is living the best life.
well that certainly filled my "like" and "literally" quota for the year😂
Not to mention a lifetime of rising terminal pronunciation.
@@EatsLikeADuck uptalk they call it.
So cool being able to pull resources like this from your own land!
Spent my childhood using water from a ram pump system. Amazing most of the time. Frustrating at others wish you lots of success...
this was such an interesting watch. I love seeing the water flow come through. Go Lou!! btw the shot of Max digging with his daddy made me burst into tears. Usually I'm able to get further into the video before I start crying, lol. What a beautiful family 💛
I would love to see this develop itself through the years
Kids are such a blessing
This was a pretty good spring build. Being able to catch such a broad spring with multiple eyes is not as ideal as finding a single eye but it's a lot better than having to build a 25 foot dam like you'd have to do for a soft soil seep without an eye. Hopefully you don't ever lose them to new eyes breaking away and broadening the seep or anything. It was a real blessing to be able to find the rocks that it flows out of.
If I were you I'd build or buy a pump even if it's just a spare that will run down to like 3 gallons per minute or even less if possible that way it'll keep running even in a drought, just in case that GPM drops a lot during a dry august. We had a d4 drought here this year and got down to 220 gallons per day between 2 springs at one point. I put in a third and got us up to about 350. Luckily ours is all gravity because we could have never run a ramp pump on them.
But if your pump can't go down somewhere in the range of 1-3gpm if there's a drought bad enough to stop your pump running you'll need a bunch of electric cable and a submersible pump to stick in your spring box or a small cistern tank to get water back up the mountain. Which isn't a bad backup idea anyways. Or a primary idea if you can't run a ram pump you can always just set a cistern and bury in a bajillion feet of pressure line and an electric cable to use a submersible well pump to feed the house.
I also saw your other video with the 2 new springs and squirrel chews. Little boogers love ruining good water line. Basically the only fix is to walk the line once a year with a roll of 3m black electrical tape and tape any holes up that you find or you can bury the line by just dragging soil and leaf litter over it from above with your mattock.
You can do something similar for burying pressure lines on a hillside, dig only partway as deep as you need it and then bury it with more dirt from all around it, letting gravity do some of the work for you. You can sometimes add as much as 6 to 18 inches of depth depending on how determined you are.
Maybe in a couple years when little feller is bigger you and him can hit the hillside with a couple mattocks and bury stuff with a little dirt if those squirrels become too much of a nuisance.
I have been lucky in that the falling leaves and erosion cover our lines over pretty good given some time.
You are living my dream, have a fam and working in the nature with water :)
It might be possible to build a small Basin since they're so close together and converge all of them into one flow
Man! This place is crazy wet. Wish I could find a spring with a couple of pick swings.
Have you thought about increasing the flow of the springs by building ponds or other water collection structures above the springs in elevation? That way you will charge the groundwater more increasing the flow of the springs. It can also create new springs in the area as well. =)
Thisis the best spring build Ihave watched after years of searching this topic. Thanks somuch
You should add some charcoal mixed in with the gravel for some minor but extra filtration
While building those dams, you can divert water away from your working area - around the dam, and then reroute the flow of water back to the dam when the work is done on that location
cannot wait for next video enjoyed the developing of the springs
not sure if you have a lake to swim in or not but if it was me i would dig a big ish hole and put a tarp into it and have the springs flow into there as a little pool. slope the pool a little so when it overflows it goes into a filter and into the pump to supply your house.
Great idea
This is so wholesome.
Great work! Impressive!! Advice...get rid of the industrial tractor tires and get R1 Ag tires. Not inexpensive, but WAY better in the woods
How lucky you guys have all those springs. ❤
it really is! So much gorgeous water :) hope you are having a nice week, Diana!
It's pretty amazing that the technology used in the 1930s is still manufactured nearly 100 years later. Still useful.
Never change what works best.
Your time sense is a bit out of touch, 1930s is modern
@jameslafontaine5557 No mention of "modern" was made. Though I would not consider a 95 year old anything to be considered modern. Items of that age are described as antiques. Would you refer to a 1930s automobile as modern? If you did, I think you would be alone in that opinion.
neat trick: Build the road for tractor to get to place you need it to go, first.
that project alone would take longer than the one he is working on
I could "hear" my father in your comment. Made me smile, thank you.
Looks like the best way to spend a day.
Amazing ❤
it feels like you are in that house on the mountain where you built out the van! almost like a full circle seeing you walking up hill with buckets and the dog running after you. well done guys its amazing ❤
Nice work. I can't wait to see your next adventure.
I enjoy your work on waters. Gives me ideas.❤
WATER IS AWESOME AND DANGEROUS....LIFE GIVING AND TAKING.....
You can use the branches, cut them into pieces and lay them in the mud. It works like the way you put rebar into concrete to reenforce the ground to distribute the weight of your tractor out better. I live on a side of a mnt to where water will loosen the soil. And found this to be a great way to make drit roads
Looks amazing, Lou!! You should try to get a moss patch to grow over top of the plastic covering the new springs! Looks like there’s a perfect lil sun patch there for it !
Aw that is such a nice idea!! Thank you!!
Lovit great job it's gonna be nice to have the water
Appears you could lay the rock down along the road after grading in the dry season to build a better base closer to the springs as you’ll most likely be there for maintenance of the springs.
I have only seen a few springs in my life. Beautiful
Awesome to find so much water on your land!!!
it really is, so many wonderful springs :)
Great work Lou that’s amazing and so interesting to watch x
If y'all watch nomadic movement they use a ram pump up a very steep hill to their homestead.... how awesome 💚
At 22:26 did I hear him correctly. Sounded a lot like a word kids love to say after they hear it. It took me back to my nephews and nieces being that age. Y'all have an amazing piece of land and a great family keep up the good work.
I noticed these great water shoes right here. 6:10
Very interesting stuff about develping springs which I did not have any idea about.
Loved seeing the lushness of the north east it’s 103’ here in east Texas . Thanks for transporting me.
Oh wow, 103 in Texas is definitely a different climate, haha! Thank you for spending some time with us :)
I’m also in East Texas near Houston. Cheers!
I also have a small tractor and hills. I have chains on the rear and the tires are foam-filled. This makes a huge diff. I don't get stuck anymore!
Thank you so much for sharing!! Will definitely pass this on to lou :)
Your son is sooo cute. Enjoy every second. These are the days you'll miss later in life.
Really awesome video!
This is really amazing! I'm sure there are ways the waste water from the ram pump can still be useful and even benefit local wildlife. Maybe it could be used as the source for an artificial lake where you can introduce some native fish species! :D
I love your spring building videos! ❤
yay, glad you like them! Thank you, Rebekah :)
So incredible! Way to go Lou!!
thank you 😀
Super cool video
This is so cool
Amazing work and dedication to home and family ❤
Thank you :)
Three to one pound . Then run a feed down.
Pound deep. No air bubbles. God bless mate. 4.25 in mick Australia 🇦🇺
It would sure be nice to have a catchment basin! That’s a lot of water!
This is strangely entertaining
You can create some mud mats out of 2x4 or old trimmed down logs. Screw or nail the pieces together to make a rail road or ladder looking piece of wood, that would sit in the mud and provide traction. The bigger the foot print the more the forces will be dispersed in the mud, and the long it will last before sinking into the mud
If your spring water flows decrease due to sedimentation you can always wrap you coarse aggregate in some geotextile fabric that will keep fines out of your aggregate. nice going!
Looks like one day you could have a beautiful clear spring fed pond.
You have a backhoe, on those spots where you're sliding use it to dig from the high side of that area and put your diggings just passed the low side for a shoulder.
Hi, have you looked into adding Xtra wheel on the back ? The main advantages of dual assembly are better distribution of soil pressure, improved tractor stability, and higher tractive force. This means loads are spread over more tyres, which means tyres are less likely to slip and thus be subject to less wear and tear.
Es hermoso. Que increíble tener esos nacimientos de agua. Tods una maravilla
amazing! as always!
i love clean drinking water!
Wow. Earned a subscription
Install a bleeder valve at the top of every hill. Then you can simply walk down your line opening bleeder valves until water runs out of the bleeder valve(exactly like brake lines on an automobile). Air is compressible if it is sealed in. The water will force the air out if you give that air a path out.
It’s called water hammer that’s why you use propper clamps
I wouldn’t drink from the creek further down the hill from that spring but out of the side of the hill I would absolutely
Not a mud expert here, but look up if letting a little air out of the tires and getting a heavy duty wench would help you. You can wench to a tree and pull up to more solid ground.
can you fill the rear tires with water and get some tire chains to get more traction. ? also put down gravel on your road . that will do wonders. lastly buy a winch for the tractor so you can pull it out of stuck situations. you may need larger plastic pipe as well.
As a planner, my reaction is that I would do almost everything different. I'm way more lazy than you are, so I think I would plan harder and make more use of power tools. That being said, I'm still jealous of your life style and say more power to you and God Bless!
Snow chains might be helpful to improve the traction of your industrial style tyres if you have this issue often.
Now if we had an energy solution. That’s amazing. I wish I had springs on my land.
You have good flow for a hydro-electric system.
Follow the hose, follow the hose 🎶
Dudes got a Protos, nice
Use the bucket to carve out a road thru thru the side of the hill. Make your own road~!
Generally I've found if the spring flows pretty good like yours the worst that will happen in summer is half flow. Usual it's the tiny springs that are seasonal. Again though this is generally. Your best bet is to find it during peak flow and monitor it for a year if you have the time. We only developed ours halfway at our hunting land for the first couple years before we committed to burying a full length of pipe.
Killing it small's
Should have used marble chips in bag's. No leeching from the rocks.
You should also consider building a hydroelectric plant if the flow is good enough.
This is likely a stupid question and I know I might come across ignorant by asking it: does developing these springs not take water qwqy from the forest environment around it and therefor disturb its ecosystem?
I wondered the same thing. Thank you for asking!
It absolutely does. Those aquifers are supplying water to the root systems to that entire area as well as the regions watershed. The amount of water that will be wasted for their use is selfish and truly maddening.
Homesteading is a self indulgence by people whom have deluded themselves into thinking they are living a more pure life than the rest of us all while using diesel/gas powered machines to rip up nature for youtube views.
No
Sure, a bit, but as you saw it wasn’t a river ecosystem, just wetter spots in a wet forest, that mostly was soaked in again into the ground. Most of the water will still spill in place and soak I think, if they only take for 3 human’s daily use. Having a well also has an impact, or using city water. Or bottled water. Lowering one’s water use is crucial off grid anyway
This is not an arid forest so it will be fine. We have more things we use daily that are far more harmful globally.
my uncle developed a spring by driving a sand point into the hill where the flow was coming from I am sure it went quite a few yards back into the hill but when finished the flow was about the same as you have there
Have you thought of developing the springs into a combined stream, flowing into a couple consecutive ponds down the slope? This would provide water for your family and local wildlife and could produce hydroelectric power.
ponds would contaminate the water if you take it from ponds.
That warp stabilise is killing me
NICE VIDEO! Thanks.... ANd how about using the tractor to flatten the road first?
Im just guessing, but your first q&a about lookink for spring in summer is because there is a tendency for springs to dry up when the ground water tends to dry up or greatly reduce in flow because the ground water/aquifer is not being replenished by rain as it would be during the other 3 seasons. Just a guess.